Podcasts about MM

If you want to bring a smile to Jarrett’s face, ask him about his bees. He’s an “apiarist”—a beekeeper. Though our meetings in his backyard are not about bees, it’s not uncommon for “apiculture” lessons to be a stimulating part of our conversations. But even better than “bee talk” is the nature-fresh, sweet taste of the golden-colored honey produced by Jarrett’s hardworking bees. Mm, mm, good! In Psalm 119:103, the psalmist exclaims, “How sweet are your words to my taste, sweeter than honey to my mouth!” Closer examination of verses 97-104 reveals that the “sweeter than honey” comparison is just one of several phrases the writer uses to accent the supreme value of Scripture: “Your commands are always with me and make me wiser than my enemies. I have more insight than all my teachers, for I meditate on your statutes. I have more understanding than the elders, for I obey your precepts” (vv. 98-100). The bottom line is that wholeheartedly embracing what God has revealed through the words of the Bible situates us to live well in this world. Similarly, when Jesus, the Living Word (see John 1:1-14), is experienced and valued—His followers, empowered by the Holy Spirit, are well-positioned to live in ways that honor God and serve His purposes.

Ever feel like your office doesn't fit the standard benchmarks for growth? In this episode, Kiera and Dana riff on how to know whether going big or tightening the screws is the best way forward for your practice — including specific questions to ask yourself so you can get started on change today. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today's a lucky day. I get Dana on the podcast with me. Dana, she is Donuts with Dana. She's been my ride or die for so freaking long. I love this woman so much. And fun fact, I didn't quite prep her 100 % for this podcast and yet she still shows up for a podcast with me. So Dana, how you doing today?   DAT-Dana (00:20) Doing pretty good. Listen, any podcast with you is a good time. So if I get time with Kiera, I'm showing up.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:25) Well, I appreciate   it because selfishly I needed to throw a few podcasts in the morning before a coaching call day. And I was like, ⁓ doing them solo. I'd rather have a consultant. So I just looked across the calendars and was like, which consultants are free and like threw them on people's calendars. And then Dana was like, I didn't even know that this was a podcast. So, but Dana, I equally feel the same. Like if I can snag you for a podcast, like let's roll girl. Let's have a good time. Dana.   You're Dainty to a point, but you're also Dynamite Dana. And we just had a client who's looking to work with you. And I told them like, Dana, you don't take on new clients. Like it is a very rare season. Like you happen to have a few clients that just like you've grown them enough. They're too new level that they're not staying with us. They've been with you for freaking ever. And I was like, Dana has a very rare opening. And I remember this client was like, well, we want to meet Dana. And I was like,   hold please, I'm just gonna send you a bunch of podcasts and if you need more than that, you just let me know. So, and when I was looking through them, it was like, Dynamite Dana on the podcast. And I was like, I think that one just got to stick for me Dana. Like it's the best one by far because you're a dynamic, you're dynamite and you just crush it for teams. So excited for today because today's topic is scale or simplify. Like what should growth look like in your practice? And this one I just felt was gonna be a fun rift with you and me because we have practices that.   DAT-Dana (01:23) you   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (01:40) I think are on both sides of this coin and how do offices know? So I'm excited Dana to rift with the one and only dynamic dynamite, Dainty on the pod.   DAT-Dana (01:52) It's getting longer and longer, but I love it.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (01:56) But what's crazy is Dana like here's a fun fact about Dana that you guys might not know for those of you who've listened for a while great welcome if you haven't go back and listen to some of them Dana's been Don't is with Dana. I think still my favorite one, but ⁓ Dana has this wild memory you tell her one time like I can change alliterations on Dana multiple times which we've done with core values and Dana has the most current one always Dana I don't know how your memory does this cuz I'm like you'll remember that on   whatever May date we're doing this podcast on that on that date it was dynamic dynamite Dainey and you're like yeah Kiera that was the latest one and I'm like how like I have a good memory but you even skunk me like it's impressive has this always been the case for you like did you crush everybody on memory like that game memory   DAT-Dana (02:37) Yeah, it is. It's always been the   case. And it's weird. I was trying to explain it to Britt and Nikki one time. And it's like, my brain just automatically like does alliterations and associates things with like other pieces that then I can, I don't know. It's very strange, but I'll take it.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (02:51) I don't know. I love it.   So, every year for our company holiday party, if you guys don't do it, it's a good time. have, I hope Danny still love it. Like, but we, do fun. Kiera's games are just made up games guys. And I have a great time and it's always changing the rules. Tiffanie always loses. Even if I try to like slightly ethically cheat for her, like I give her 10 tickets on the beginning and I'm like, Tiff, if you can't freaking win with that much of a jump.   DAT-Dana (03:01) yeah.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (03:20) but it's always about team trivia and Dana whoops, she skunks every single year she wins it because she just has all the memory. So maybe Dana, that's why you and I both love the holiday party. Cause I just like, even tried to make it to where you won't win it. Not cause I don't want you to, but I'm like, my gosh, like you skunk them every time. So it's a fun time. We, but I'm never letting Shelbi do it again. She made me do, do you remember Jeopardy last year? I had like 200 tickets a person that I had to like peel off and raffle off.   DAT-Dana (03:32) We have... I know.   Yes.   Sift through, I know.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (03:50) That Shelbi is like, that one was worth 15 tickets. And so if you guys want ideas, we're gonna talk about how to simplify our scale. Like that's our topic. But if you want us to rift on holiday party ideas, Dana, that just might have to be a topic. So email in because the marketing team has to see that you want to know this for me to make podcasts anymore. So email Hello@TheDentalATeam.com and just say like, we want to hear about all your holiday party ideas. Dana and I might get back on a rift. So, but Dana, let's talk about.   scale or simplify, how do offices know? Like what are some of the defining pieces? Because I think this is something about Dental A Team I'm obsessed with is we don't have a set like model, like not every office has to have X, Y or Z, it's truly yours. like that also, I think for some offices, they just wanna be told. They wanna like, I want my mom to tell me what to do for college. Like mom, just tell me. And I think people are like, well, just tell me Dana, do I scale or do I simplify? Like how do people know? Like what's some, and again, this is a full blown, we had a few.   Excuse me, talking points, I'm not here to follow any of them. I'm just here to talk like real life, like how do we guide offices if they should simplify our scale? What's kind of some of the things you start with within office?   DAT-Dana (04:53) Yeah. So usually I'll honestly start with the owner and like, what do you truly love? Because if you don't love managing people, if you don't love doing the procedures that it takes to expand, if you don't love like   running the business and crunching the numbers and doing those pieces, if that doesn't inspire you, then let's talk about simplifying, right? Where if, if really and truly that's why you show up every day is for those pieces, then let's talk about scaling, right? And what growth looks like and you know,   what that looks like for you and it might be adding practices, might be expanding the space that you're in, it might be a variety of different things, but honestly and truly what do you love because I don't want to build something that at the end of the day just makes you dislike coming to the office more or exponentially harder.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (05:49) I agree with you, Dana. I think this is a spot where almost giving you as an owner, the green light to say it's okay to stay where you're at. ⁓ I have an office in Florida and every time we got on a call, everybody around them was telling them to expand. So they had six operatories. They're producing 3.5 million. Their overhead, kid you not is 35%. And people were like, right. Like it's just, ⁓ it was a great practice and they worked four days a week. It was a husband, wife duo.   And I remember we talked all the time and they're like, Kiera, everybody thinks that we should scale. Like we should get another practice. Like we've got this. And I was so annoyed because I'm like, everybody chirping in your ear doesn't realize what you want. What they wanted, their kids were a little, they're like, we want to be home with our kids. We have a very profitable practice. We're very happy with it. We have minimal debt on it and it's just fulfilling our life. And what we want to do is we want to have our summers. We want to go golfing with the boys. We want to.   get on a boat and go take, they take a month off and they go travel because they can't and they can still pay their team while they're gone. And I think for them, they actually hit this spot of growth. And what they were looking for is they didn't want to necessarily grow the practice. They practice like who would change that up? mean, they've got the, they dropped out of insurance. Like I'm talking, they have the sweetest of the suite. They work six to three. They're off every day at three o'clock. Like you want to make a dream life for people that to me was like their dream life. And so when I looked at it,   But what they did is they got stagnated and they just needed something to fulfill. So they actually then went into like church groups and community groups and she got into bodybuilding, which Dana and I can appreciate. Like she got very obsessive about like working out and putting in and spending her time in her physical health. And he spent his time in like Bible study and giving back in the community that way that I feel that if there's a spot, Dana, like you said,   know thyself and be free. And it might be that you want to scale, but you don't want to scale your practice. You just need to go find another avenue of fulfillment that can be in varying shades. That doesn't necessarily need to be the practice. So I don't know because I'm such a like, I love to grow, but I have to ask myself like, why am I growing? it for my own ego? And I'm like, no, I want to like help 500 dentists. Like we're at like a hundred, 200 dentists. Like for me, how do I help 500 dentists? And then how am going to help a thousand dentists? And how do we do that as a company? And that to me,   is the MO more than the dollars is like the big MO is big impact in dentistry. And so it's the number of dentists that we serve and we help. ⁓ That's what lights me up. But like Dana said, managing the team screw that we're bringing on a C-suite for a reason. Like I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to, like I need to build and to create. And that was, makes me happy. ⁓ But I think you do it because you want to do it, not because you feel like everybody else around you does it. But Dana, like, I don't know how to, we can say this on a podcast, but like, how do you really help a dentist?   see that that's okay. I don't know, because we had another dentist who came to our mastermind in person and she told me, said, Kiera, I'm not like them. Like I don't have big dreams. Like I'm perfectly content doing nonprofit dentistry and taking my team on nonprofit trips. And I was like, how did you miss the loud blaring message that I preach from ups on stage? Like   We don't care what you do. Like there's a dentist who works three days a week and he's so freaking happy. And I've got a dentist who's working like six days a week and he's so freaking happy. And she's so happy. Like ultimately it's not about production. It's not about days you're working. It's not about size of practice. It's about what makes you happy. But Dana, I feel like people don't see that. And they're like, no, I need to be bigger or I need to do this. Otherwise I'm failing. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that?   DAT-Dana (09:24) Yeah, and I think it is having an honest conversation that sometimes like comparison is the thief of joy. And like you said, know thyself and be free. And so oftentimes, I will put together just like, a couple options, right? Okay, so you could do this, and this is what this would look like. So we could expand the practice, it could have this many ops in order to fill this many ops, we're gonna have to bring in an associate, right? And sometimes when you map out, you go down the road of, okay, now this is going to be hiring this many people. And this is going to be the process of   creating a new building and this is, they kind of start to see, right? And they're like, I always talk to them about, okay, think about these plans, let's walk them through together. And like, does that make you feel joyful, excited, giddy, inspired, motivated? Or does that feel like it's going to be more work, daunting, more stress, those types of pieces? And yes, sometimes even the growth that you want has a little bit of stress added, right? Or has a little bit more work added in the beginning. But you should be truly excited   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (10:12) Yes.   Mm-hmm.   DAT-Dana (10:23) And you should be ready to tackle it and feeling refreshed, not looking at it and kind of feeling like, my gosh, I'm already burnt out just even thinking about the plan.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (10:32) I would agree with you. And I think that there's like a, I think that's a good litmus test that you brought up Dana of like, how do I feel? Like, is that like a heavy weight and burden? Because like for me building a C-suite now in the company that actually freaking lights me up. Like I'm like, all right, let's like try to figure this out. I get excited to learn that piece of the business ⁓ building out and how can we do these different pieces? Like I get really excited, like building the client journeys. Those things still like excite me. But a few years ago when we talked about growing,   I was like hard no. It was a like put a stop on everything. If you ask me to build one more thing, I'm tapped. Like I just didn't have it in me. And so I also hope people realize that like just because you want something today or you don't want something today, that doesn't mean it's a forever process. Like it can evolve and it can morph with you. And timing is everything. Like Dana, there's some offices where I feel like they're like sleepers and they're just asleep and asleep and asleep. And then all of a sudden like, and I'm going to expand to 10 ops. And you're like,   All right, sweet. Like you and I both have a client in Nebraska and it was like sleepy client just going along status quo. And then all of a it's like, and I'm going to buy the building next door and I'm adding on to dentists. we're like, great, you're lit up for this. let's build it. So I think when people, don't know, maybe this can help people. My family was always like, where are going to move? Jason and I, this is a conversation we talked about on a regular basis. And someone said the other day, they were like, I'm going to move to the East coast. And I was like, you really want to like build your family there. And she said, Kiera, it's not forever.   Like I could just go live there for two years and I could move back to the West coast. And I think sometimes we believe like I do that where I live is my forever permanent, like non-negotiable. And if I'm going to scale or I'm going to simplify, that's my forever non-negotiable rather than like, this is the season and time I'm at. That office that I talked about, their kids are getting older. I know they're starting to think about different things and what they want their life to look like. And so I also want you to realize that if you choose to scale or you choose to simplify,   They're not irreversible decisions. Like if you scale it up, there's a doctor that just joined us and she's a really awesome example. I'm getting her on the podcast. I can't wait to bring her on. Dana doesn't even know about this client. She's new to the company. She's awesome. She freaking blew up a business. Like she launched it. It rocked. She expanded. She built it so big. And then COVID hit and she was in a space where oil and gas were her main clientele. And all of her patients had that. And she's like, I lost them all. She's like, so I had added 10 more ops to my practice.   I had to scale it back down to what it was before, make it go through. And I had this like huge lease on me. And I think about her that like, even if you expand it out and blow it out, she still was able to get herself back to profit margins, found a way around it. That for, I think people, maybe Dana, get nervous and it's like, this is my, I don't know, my like glory or my doom forever. But it's like, it's just decisions and it decides on if it lights you up or if takes you down. I don't know. I've said a lot of words. What do you think on that, Dana?   DAT-Dana (13:26) No, I agree with you. agree. And I think that, too, like you said, people have different seasons in their lives. And at different points, they want different things. And it's okay to want something now to build it and then to decide that that isn't where you want to sit forever. And then we pivot, we come up with other plans. And in the reverse, it's like, oftentimes, I feel like offices don't realize how much you can simplify but still grow. And so, you know, I think it's just going through.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (13:29) Thank   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Say that again, because I think people   might have missed that. Say that again, Dana.   DAT-Dana (13:57) Yeah, you can still simplify things in your practice and have massive growth.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (14:03) Yes. Bingo. I also hope people hear that because like that practice I was sharing in Florida and Dana, you've got some offices right now that we talked about. We had a case study where they were negative cash. They simplified and they have grown and they've expanded so much. think people often feel, I don't know, I'm going to be hated. I can tell. I'm like playing with my hair a lot right now. That means I'm nervous to say what I'm about to say. So if you're watching, thanks for, I'm sure the marketing team is going to love cropping this.   I think some people feel the ego pull to be larger when that's not really what they want to do. And so they expand or they build because it is really sexy to go to an event or to talk to your bros or your girls and say, this is my office and look how amazing it is. But I think that there's a silent killer that sits inside where they're under debt, they're exhausted, they're so tired and they don't want that versus my practice in Florida. On the outside, I remember looking at it I was like,   This doesn't strike me as their office, but they're like, here it's cheap. It's paid for it fits our clientele and the inside was gorgeous and they renovated it at times. It's a small, tiny office, but I'm like, it does not need to be the grandiose. Like they're not going to go up in a presentation and throw the exterior of their building on a screen. Like it's not, it's not something where you drive by and you're like, wow, I want that dental office. But what I do is I want the profitability. want the life. I want the interior. I want the people that come to that practice. I want the team of that practice.   that I think sometimes ego drives. And again, the exterior of this practice is not like, I think it's a beautiful practice. It's not one though that I'm gonna drive by and stop and be like, my gosh, like this. And so I think sometimes people get that temptation pull. I mean, I've had it. Dana, do you know how embarrassed I used to, I shouldn't tell you this, you were part of it. I used to be embarrassed to post about our team when we do like our Disneyland retreats and there was five of us. And I was like, because we look like.   We look like this piddly little consulting company and I was embarrassed about it. And I wanted to have that giant team picture. And I'll tell you having a freaking giant team picture. That's a lot of mouths, a lot of headache and a lot of stress, but like, feel the ego pole as a leader and a business owner. And it used to be like, loved my team and we were five. I loved us. Like Dana, do you remember the Disneyland retreat sitting in that room together? Like we had some killer fun times together and my life was exponentially easier.   DAT-Dana (16:18) Yeah.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (16:26) But like, how do you talk about the ego pull? Even though that's not necessarily, like, I don't want the stress, Dana. I don't want that. I want, I actually want the number of clients we serve today with that, intimate team. Like that's really, and I think we are getting closer to actually having that. think we've been doing a better job there, but like, how do you have that ego pull, not pull you because simplicity is not fun to refine. And we could have done probably a lot more on a lot less people.   ⁓ And now I'm getting people that text me like, my gosh, look at your team. Like I want to join Dental A Team. And I'm like, well, thank you. You don't know like the chaos behind the scenes. ⁓ How do you prevent? Because I think there was a piece of me that might have grown for ego and status too. And like I've never admitted that on the podcast, but I hope people recognize that like these are real conversations too.   DAT-Dana (17:15) Yeah, I think it's just an open and honest conversation about why and about where they are and about what their options are I have a doctor right now who like really really   keeps reiterating how much he wants multiple practices. And we've had to have just kind of a reality conversation of, hey, I will help you build whatever it is that you really truly want. Also though, we just had a conversation about you wanting to start a family, right? And so I always say to him, right, the right decision comes at the right time. And if it's not the right time, maybe it's not the right decision. And let's just take a look at what it would look like to actually be able to get you out of this practice a little bit more to then start to build your family, to then   maybe be able to have practice number two and practice number three that you don't have to be dependent to be in practice number one anymore. And so I do think it's just an open and honest conversation. And sometimes as a coach or as a consultant, these conversations can be uncomfortable.   But let's take a look at where you are. Let's take a look at why you want to do this thing. Obviously, we're going to look at the numbers to make sure that it makes sense and to make sure that you can do it as as minimal stress as possible. But ultimately, why do you want this? Why do you want this thing? Right? What is driving you to do it? What do you hope that it creates? And if all of those pieces really align with what you want, great. And that's awesome. And if they don't, let's figure out a different way.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (18:37) Yeah. And I hope everybody has heard throughout this entire episode, Dana has been saying that there's another option. There's a different way that we could figure out something. And I think that that's the benefit of having a coach go through this with you on the simplifier scale, because I know as a business owner, really it's a like, it feels like it's a straight up line. Like you start here and then you grow your team and you grow your profits and you grow your production. You hope you grow your profits. but like that's kind of how it feels like in business linear. But I think with coaching,   Dana, I've seen hundreds of offices and it's a like, well, great. You can have a family today and we can build it. Like you said, we could build practices that don't even rely on you. You can have associates. I've had doctors who have associates that go and open. They just get part of the ownership of it, but they have to do nothing of it. They like help fund it and that's all their requirement is. And the doctor's super happy. They're super happy. And I think what I've learned too, Dana, is for people to realize, like, I think, like I said, I think it's a straight linear is how in my mind it feels.   but I'd like you to almost see it as a spiderweb or there are so many different, or maybe a better analogy is like Venice. Let's do Venice. That feels a little prettier. There are so many winding sideways and different routes. Like it's not just the canal you need to follow. And I think having a consultant, having a coach, having people that are in a community, talking of different ways, I genuinely know and believe that there are probably 200 different ways to get to the ultimate goal you want that doesn't maybe look the way you're painting it in your head today. And I think Dana, you could attest to that as well.   DAT-Dana (20:04) Yeah, absolutely.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (20:06) So Dana, if there's a doctor out there that's like, do I simplify, I scale? What would you recommend like in quick like two or three bullet points that they do today to make that decision cleaner for them?   DAT-Dana (20:16) Yeah, I think first and foremost, really think about what you want for your life, not just your practice. Think about...   how much time you want to be at the office, what are the things that you want to do, ⁓ just kind of where you are in your space of life. And I think too, honestly, second thing on that list would be like reach out for help, talk to people who've done it, reach out to a coach. If it's not a coach, find a mentor, find somebody in your area that has expanded or has but in a second practice. What are the lessons that they would tell you? What are the things that they would tell you to look out for? ⁓   and also too, like what are other options? And so I feel like use your network or look for a coach.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (20:59) Yeah, and that's why she's called Dynamic Dynamite Dana because with that, that's a perfect wrap. And I hope all of you take her advice. Reach out, we'd love to chat with you. Like, I'll give you free advice. We'll talk to you. Our team's here. Be a part of our community. And Dana, thank you for being on the podcast. I appreciate you in my life. I appreciate you on the podcast. And for all of you listening, thank you for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

Kiera and Trish are on the podcast together (yay!) to dive into the art of a Dental A-Team visit to your office (double yay!). They go into how an eagle-eyed consultant was able to take a specific office that couldn't quite reach its goals and tip them into success. They also touch on relationship dynamics, the power of "mom eyes," being a cheerleader and a coach, and a ton more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am so excited for today's podcast. I have the one and only Trish. She's known as TADA in our company. She's all the confetti, the glitter, the sparkles, the spice, and Trish honestly just reminds me how great life is. So Trish, welcome to the podcast today. How are you?   Tricia Lee Ackerman (00:17) I'm doing great, thank you Kiera. I always love getting this time in with you.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (00:21) ⁓ likewise, I, Trish, you are just my little like light on the Hill. just, whenever I need to remind myself how good life is, I just need a little Trishism in my life. So Trish, thank you for being that. And Trish, you just got back off the road. You were in offices and that was what we're going to podcast today of like, you have had some pretty freaking outstanding results after being with offices, being in person with them. And so we kind of wanted to office autopsy that, but like Trish.   Just walk us through like what is an office visit like and how does that magic happen? So kind of walk us through because you just Literally flew in I think last night and here we are. was like, hey, let's do a quick early morning podcast with you But yeah, let's let's talk about some of that magic Trish What what happens in an in-office visit and how does that magic happen?   Tricia Lee Ackerman (00:57) Yeah, that's good.   You know, it's like we do, we build strong relationships, you know, via the Google meetings and video meetings and such, but something truly does happen when you get to touch somebody, hug somebody, and then really just like look at them knee to knee, eye to eye. And I was, when I meet with teams, like it's typically, we kind of know each other already. You know, we've been working together a couple months, sometimes even up to like four or five, six months already. But when we get there and we see each other,   And we get to have a lot of fun together as a collaborative team, because the Dental A Team style is like, we are fun. That we definitely are. And we try to make the lives of people easier. And this collaboration that takes place, also is kind of like it's cousins with a trust that also forms at the same time. So it's like we collaborate, yeah, that's great. But then the relationship, it steps it up a notch and a trust starts to come.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (01:39) Yeah.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (02:00) And when you can see that happen, can all, well, you feel it and then you know it's there. And then the magic really starts to like, it speeds up the momentum. It like you hit the, you hit the pedal to the metal and like, it's go. And I've seen it more than once. And so it is truly the onsite visits that, that bring this kind of full circle and put the big red bow on what we're trying to accomplish for ourselves as consultants and for the teams.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (02:30) Yeah, I love that you say that because you're right. Like we do virtual and in-person consulting. We also have an in-person mastermind, which is so fun, but it's that I think it's the collaboration. It's the connection. It's the conversations that are had that you wouldn't normally have. ⁓ it's having, I almost got like the hallway whispers, teams open up a lot to you when we're in person. They, we find out things. And also when we go in person, you're able to see things. I remember, I think like one of the highlights of my career.   was walking into a practice that I had been consulting for almost a year. We were growing them and I walked in and I did like a, it was a head turn. Everybody says I have some good mom eyes without being a mom. And I was like, you guys have paper charts? I didn't know that this was a thing. And how has this never come up on a single call because paper charts should not be happening. And the dentist was like, but Kiera, I'm just so comfortable with them. And I said, well, great, we're gonna get really uncomfortable and it's time to change. I just think it's a...   Tricia Lee Ackerman (03:23) Yes   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (03:27) things that offices don't even know that they should be bringing up to you of issues on virtual calls. We can't see the practice. can't see how like there's a practice. You and I both know them very well. The thing we did for them was we put in a different flow and that's all we did. And that increased our case acceptance, it increased team morale, but it was just something simple like that. So Krish, you have a practice though. You got an office, it's a unique office. ⁓ And I think what's magical is,   after the visit, it's crazy. People can always tell, I had somebody actually chart my visits and they were like, Kiera, without fail, every time you come in, we get a boost in production, a boost in revenue. And I'm like, well, yeah, cause the team's happier. You guys are all aligned. You're rowing in the same direction. But the goal is that that can also sustain. So I hope that it's a, and what I have seen is it's a boost and it's like, there's a spike, but then it's also the baseline goes up and it stays up.   Typically speaking, because people are like, well, if you're not here all the time, how are we supposed to get these boosts? And it's like, no, it is a boost, it's a spike, but then is the baseline hires and we live in that, that becomes our new norm. Then we come back in and we spike again and the baseline norms up again. So Trish, let's talk about, you got a couple office autopsies out there. What did you do for some practices and what were the results afterwards?   Tricia Lee Ackerman (04:42) Well, I have, I do have a client and there's two practices. We joined them together for the onsite visit and they were, because there's the two practices, they are real, they're very great with being collaborative, but we were all together. So everything was implemented at the same exact time. you know, Kiera, what are the other things I want to throw in about our approach is when we do implement and when we do go onsite, it isn't like the Dental A Team way.   You know, doesn't have to be this way. You know, we asked the teams, well, here is a way that we could do something a little bit easier. How do you think we could do this? So there are really big part of, and these teams that we work with, I mean, they're like, geniuses. They really are. We actually learn so much from them. But this particular team that really kind of sticks out to me, they were really struggling hitting their goals. They kind of just didn't know how to do it.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (05:26) Okay.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (05:36) But we set in metrics that they could, we broke them really, we broke them down almost like to the hour. So they didn't have to look at a big thing. And yes, that we can do virtually. However, being together and me being able to watch them collaborate and give them those like, almost like the standing ovation, like, wow, did you guys see what you just designed? And Kiera, when I left that practice, they have hit their goals the last two months now. We put in some, which,   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (06:03) Yeah.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (06:04) is so neat because they have such a skip in their step. But this, in February, they were $600 away from their collection goal. It was the last day of the month. They ended up going over by $4,000 because they are competitive with each other now in a super fun way. And they ended up getting a patient that was in for a consult to schedule and pay in advance because they wanted that goal. And   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (06:07) Ha ha ha!   dang.   That's incredible.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (06:32) And it's those things that they would not have done before. again, you know, it's almost like it's an invisible magic that does take place because they now know that they have somebody that's not there to change them, that's there to help them. And they want to make us proud. They want to make themselves proud. And it just kind of like the progress that they want to make steps up quite a big level.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (06:35) Mm-hmm.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (07:02) It just does. It just does.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (07:02) Yeah,   it does. And George, what I love, and I think you highlighted it so well, you're exactly right. I think all of our team, not I think all of our team members, all of our consultants have been team members before. And that was something as a team member and also as a business owner, I wanted to make sure when Dental A Team is consulting, we don't go in and we don't say, have to follow this script. Because people push so hard on that. They're like, listen, I'm not your robot. Like I don't want to do that versus   here's some tools and here's some resources. Like my job is to be your little fairy godmother, whatever I can do to help you. But at the end of the day, we're looking for outcomes and results. We're not looking for robots. And so if you guys are doing a great job and you're hitting the results, fantastic. And I think Trish, what you said is I think Denali team does a really great job of bringing teams together, helping them put together tangible, actionable plans that are like, this is what we're going to do in here is how we're going to set the goals, but we get the teams to do it. And you and I have another office that we worked with and I thought it was   Tricia Lee Ackerman (07:57) Yes.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (08:00) fascinating because people tell us all the time like, well, this associate won't produce or this won't happen. We have an office that hit the highest production that they have ever hit in the history of this dental practice shortly after you and I visited. And I think you and I both sat back and were like, is that causation or coincidence? Like, I think that there's a, they kind of come together and ⁓ it definitely was not a coincidence. It was very intentional. Trish, we put it together. We got the whole team rallied.   but we were focusing on what the doctors wanted. And as a by-product, we, I don't know, I feel like we're little magicians as consultants. You focus on what the doctors want, but as a by-product, we weave these threads through like, well, why don't we just try tracking this? Not on their radar, not what they're thinking. And then all of a sudden they start hitting higher goals. They start hitting these things and like, wow. We're like, yeah, it's crazy how when you just track it a little bit, you hit these things. They were concerned about their new patients and they, do you remember like after we left,   highest new patient numbers and highest production numbers. And what I think you and I love is when a practice is able to do that and they rally together, you and I can then come back around and be like, we've done it one time. What did we do? What are the things? Let's make that a constant. So this isn't just a one time like flash in the pan because Trish and Kiera showed up or Dental A Team did. It is truly a, this is going to be a sustainable model. So what are your thoughts on that? Because I think some people are like, well, just because you guys show up, then my team does it.   But for us, we're big on like, we don't want just flash in the pans, we want long-term sustainability. And I will say these practices are continuing to hit higher goals than what their baseline was before as well.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (09:34) Our delivery, you know, it's kind of like, you know, we can't hear, I'm always using analogies. My brain has to take with an analogy. And it's like, you know, people just receive the messages differently from whoever it is delivering it to them. Meaning like, my husband will respond totally different from his business coach than he ever would from me.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (09:39) I love them. This is why you're to dot Trish.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (10:00) And I could be saying the same exact thing. There's a, there's, and that's just a relationship dynamic. And so we are just, to these teams and to the doctors, we're, we're different. We're, we're just coming in a different approach with a different perspective, even though some of the messages they may have already been hearing or even sharing with their teams, but they get to hear it just a little bit differently. And, and I think once, and well, I should actually change that, not differently. They hear it more.   Like it resonates differently. And then they go into action. But when we show them, you you guys have already done this, because they forget what they've already done. They're so busy. Then you go into the next day of dentistry, then the next day of dentistry. But when we're like, look at, let's go back and look at this piece. You actually did it. So let's help you do it again.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (10:52) Mm-hmm.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (10:52) And then   they just kind of, go arm in arm. kind of code, we code diagnose with them, just like we want our doctors to code diagnose with their patients. We code diagnose with our teams and we're like, let's do this together. And then, I mean, they're the ones that are really like talk about magicians. They really truly are. mean, they're the ones, they do it. do it and it's so rewarding. the best part of this. You this job is already rewarding enough to be able to share.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (11:10) I do.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (11:17) I always love to tell people, I'm no genius, all my material is stolen. I've just had this, I've been so blessed to work with incredible people and learn incredible things that I get to share it with teams. And then these teams, go and they go do it. And it's so fun to sit back and go look at what they did.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (11:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Yes, I agree. And I think if, if you watch the video, I love Trish, you actually like had a little shimmy, like we go with the office. And what it is, is it's Trish walking down the office with these teams. It's partnering with these teams. It's being the cheerleader and the coach. think you need both. think a coach tells you your blind spots. A coach doesn't always tell you what you want to hear. Their job is to be looking down the line. And that's what I obsess about. Like we've, we've been there, we've done it. We've done it multiple times. mean, Trish, shoot you.   You've managed hundreds of team members. Like, like you said, it's all stolen. It's all on repeat. It's stuff, it's helping your team have another voice that they trust that they listen to. That's not you. Doctors have told me many times, Kiera, I pay you a lot of money to come in and tell my team exactly what I've told them, but they respect you. They listen to you. They want to know from you. And that is the greatest gift I think we can give our doctors too, is you don't know, have to be the only voice in the room saying this. You've got backup, you've got people and we work with the doctors. it's.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (12:21) Yes.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (12:34) We game plan with them before we come into office. We game plan with the office managers. But what I love Trish is in these two different practices that we're talking about, and we even have a third, ⁓ like our Rolodex, if you look and listen. So the first practice, you set goals with them. You had it achievable with them. The second practice, we went through like an entire new patient experience. have them doing office tours. We were working on new patients and we just said, hey, by the way, here's two areas. If doctors start tracking their production, this is going to go up. And all of the doctors,   kid you not every doctor went right up but as you listen to it and then the office you just came from it was like how do we help this associate doctor like there's just different dynamics of associate doctor staying leaving what do we pivot how do we fix it all three practices and the reason i want to highlight this is because Dental A Team does not have a one tool fits all approach it is very dynamic of what do these teams need what is going to get these offices motivated and Trish what i love is i still remember it was ⁓ one of the masterminds   You came in, you were in a cute little dress and like you were just so just like high on life. And you said, Kiera, I love my job and I love my job. And we are so lucky because we get to change people's lives. And it's so fun for us to be able to do that. And I've thought about that so much because well, yes, we're hitting goals of dentistry. I think we're changing humans at the same time of helping them see that, if we set a goal and we work as a team, we can do things we never thought we'd be able to do. And I think that's magnificent, but Trisha, anything else you have of like,   How did you actually get a practice to hit their goals? Two times in a row when they were not hitting, like they've gone, they've got a history of never hitting and now they're hitting it consistently. And they were so close and so committed to the goal. Like how did you, how did you turn a team into that overnight?   Tricia Lee Ackerman (14:14) The biggest, okay, I truly do think that the biggest part of that success is getting their buy-in. However, when I ask teams for a buy-in, it's a very, very deliberate and individual buy-in. So it's not just like, as a group, are we all bought in? Are we all gonna do this? I do go through each and every team member and ask, are you bought in? Do you think you could do this with us? Because when we say yes,   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (14:43) Trish, do do that in a public setting or a one-on-one setting? Perfect. Which I don't, I do the same. And I, the reason I highlight that is because you're not getting blanket to group buy-in. You're getting individual buy-in in front of team members, which is critical and pivotal. And I wanted people to hear the difference. Cause also if you're doing it behind closed doors, the whole team doesn't see to hold accountable. So the fact that it's in a public setting, not just like head nods, yes, but each individual person. And what you said is, do you think you can do this? Do you think you can hit the goals with us?   Tricia Lee Ackerman (14:45) I do it in public setting. I do it in public.   Okay.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (15:13) They are also then self committing. It's like a patient who tells you, yes, I'm gonna get the new patient forms back to you. They are already bought in and committed to doing this and it's brilliant. So continue on. I just wanted to highlight and differentiate that.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (15:26) No, thank you, because that was something that I learned a long time ago. And that individual buy-in, there is something that happens when you own it in front of your peers. There's an ownership there. And you don't want to be part of a team and be there and say, yes, I think I can do this, I'm bought in, and then not do it. It's just kind of natural. We don't want to be that person. ⁓   And you know, there have been, I have run into occasions where there, a team will be a little reluctant and I appreciate that because they'll, some teams might go, well, I'm, I'm bought in on almost everything, but I'm like, that's perfect. Let's stop right there and let's get, what do we need to do to help you get past this? But, and so we stop and, that is something like, we don't, we don't negotiate like you have to be bought in. the, you know, there's 22 members and one has a yeah, but   That's okay, but we just need to get past it so that it's a real, real sincere buy-in. and Kiera, I have, mean, to this day, and I've been doing this for a good minute, I've never not had a team member not be able to get past the abut ever. Because the rest of their team members, that's when they also step in and say, well, we can help you and we can do this and let's look at it at this angle. So that buy-in definitely does help, it does.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (16:47) Well, I think what you even teach on that Trish is that's healthy debate of a team. If they're the yeah, but great. We want to hear that. We don't want just head nods of yes, but in the back of your mind, you're sitting there like, ⁓ but like, we are saying this goal, but the reality is we don't even have the patience to do that. That's a great call out. So let's talk about that and find out, is this a new patient issue? Is this a motivation issue? Is this a diagnosis issue? There's ways, but teaching teams that the yeah, but   Tricia Lee Ackerman (16:52) Yes.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (17:18) is not wrong. The yeah, but that is trying to derail, not bought in, hating your team, that is wrong. Like that is not okay. That is not healthy debate. That is just willful rebellion. And that person is a wrong person and should probably move along and not probably like I would recommend strongly. ⁓ But most of the time I found that teams are not doing it out of willful rebellion. They really do have hesitations and reservations. And if we can just talk about it and find solutions.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (17:25) Yes.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (17:46) but you want to also encourage your team to bring these up. Again, not in Willful Rebellion where they're just like, we're not doing this, but in a true like, what are the blind spots? What have we missed? So that way we can actually win the game. That's what we're looking for. And I think it's brilliant. And I think when people hear that, there is no cookie cutter recipe for success. There is your practice, your team, your pieces. But I think the piece that Trish highlighted that we've done with all of them.   is you get the whole team by an, go around and I show them what they've committed to for six weeks. They all sign off on it. We put it up in the break room. They all see that every person on the team has signed their name, that they're committed to this at least until they designated deadline. And that I, I don't think, but I do think as an owner, I'll flip to like my owner hat. I think that that can be a hard thing to do as an owner to be like, all right, team, like I heard this great podcast. We're going to do this. I think sometimes this is the magic of having an outside voice come in.   to help your team rally, to teach them that this is the way we do it, so then owners can then duplicate this, but you're not the one who's having to set this up initially all on your own as well.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (18:51) I totally agree. Totally agree. And it's also change. know, like with success does come typically some change. And that can be scary to some people. mean, again, if you have the team of 20, you might have one that's like, okay, hold on, I want to do this, but... And it's also, it's empowering for us as consultants to remind, consistently remind people that change is uncomfortable as it is. Like it's a person, it's an internal personal growth too. It's not...   You're not always just making the practice see a better success. You're succeeding as yourself as an individual by just going through that uncomfortableness. Just that alone. You'll take that with you outside of the office. they grow, yes, they grow professionally, but they do also grow personally. And when I talk about like, love seeing, you know, I love changing the lives of people. I do sometimes get a little emotional about that because   The most rewarding piece of this is when you do have a doctor or a team member share that not only has the practice implemented things and tools that have really helped them be more efficient and just happy, but that outside of the office, these individuals have a different skip in their step as well. And that when it comes, when it comes full fold like that, talk about a win. That's powerful right there, that one.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (20:12) Yeah.   That is, and I'm so glad you said that because we were actually talking at Dental A Team and we changed it. We actually changed up what our mission and vision were and it's one practice, one life, one person at a time. And what you just said is our mission. It's like, yes, we're changing the practice, but we want to focus on the individuals on helping them change their life on them as a person. And I think it's so magical that we get the playing field of the dental practices that brings us all together, but we're able to change those lives. And so I think Trish,   I love the magic, the passion, the camaraderie. I watch you, you turn teams around very quickly and it's fun to watch you work to their nuances. I see you, I feel like you're a chameleon with practices. You morph into who that practice needs. You change and adapt. You change your style. Sometimes you're like over the top flamboyant. Other times you are like solemn and somber. You always have your wit to you that never changes. But you really will adapt to the team and what the team needs at that point.   And you have insane results. And so I think for one, we're so lucky to have you two offices are so lucky to work with you. Yes, of course you're welcome. And three, I think for anyone listening, if you're like, I wonder what that might be like in my practice, I wonder like how this would be. I hope you've heard that it is never coming in and ripping apart a team. is taking their successes or wins. heard Trish. They're brilliant. The teams are brilliant. They're already doing 90 % of it. Right. Let's just help them get that one or 2 % change. So they're actually able to get the wins.   So if you're interested in that, reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We'd love to come to your practice. We'd love to help you out. We'd love to see if you're a great candidate for it. So reach out, we'd love to help you out. And Trish, thanks for being on our team. Thanks for sharing the wins and ⁓ thanks for truly just changing lives out there.   Tricia Lee Ackerman (21:56) Thank you, Kiera. Thank you so much.   Kiera Dent- Dental A Team (21:58) Of course, and for all of you listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

For Hour 1 of the show Jon talks about a judge blocking snap restrictions, as well as how M&M is making a new version of the popular candy without food dies. Then Jon finishes the hour by talking about World Cup travelers love America. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tiff and Dana address one of the most popular topics for Dental A-Team consultants: overhead! They talk about what it entails, where to start when looking to reduce it, critical questions to ask yourself about needs versus wants, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiff (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. Thank you for being here with us today. Thank you for listening. We say this every time, but we love what we do and we love bringing you so much valuable information. And the fact that Kiera can do all the podcasts she does blows my mind. ⁓ but she is a busy bee over there, and the fact that we get to do these as well is just really, really fun for us. It allows all of the consultants here on our team to really feel like we're giving back to you guys. So with that, I have Dana here with me today, and   Dana, gosh, we have been podcasting together for a really long time. I can't even put a number to it. And I remember, I don't know if you remember, but I remember I remember where I was sitting. I remember the thought process. And I remember it was me, you and Britt on a call on a Zoom link. And it was the first time marketing had said we want to do video with the podcast. And I was like, what? And video like was not, it was just like up and coming.   I didn't understand it. It was on Instagram. I was watching I was like, why am I watching you talk? Like the a podcast is to listen. Why am I watching you talk? And now I mean it's very normal and that's how I watch them. And I feel like I feel like it was like YouTube came back around, you know. But anyways, I remember that day vividly. ⁓ I don't remember what we were talking about, but I remember being like, I have to like do my hair. I'm gonna be seen.   DAT-Dana (01:23) Yeah. Yeah. I know it was   funny because we always could see each other, right, in those early days, but it was just like we weren't creating the video content for it. And I remember thinking exactly like who's gonna want to watch   Tiff (01:33) Yes.   DAT-Dana (01:35) us who's gonna want to watch us do this thing but then I see my kids literally like watching people play Minecraft and it's like their favorite thing and I'm like wouldn't it be more fun to actually go play? So I do feel like there is definitely this like niche of people like wanting to watch and like you know get a glimpse in of like the podcast world and just different worlds in general and so I agree with you. I remember the three of us just kind of being like who's gonna want to watch us talk to each other but hey we're so glad you're here.   Tiff (01:37) Yeah.   Yes.   It's true.   Yeah.   DAT-Dana (02:05) Yeah.   Tiff (02:06) Yes, I agree. And the three fur podcasts are hard. So hard when there's so many people virtually. And yeah, I r I remember the shock. I wish I could remember what the ⁓ podcast actually it was probably I bet you it was probably one that we did for Kiera. We probably it bosses day or something, yeah, 'cause if there are multiple of us. Anyways, that was that popped into my head this morning as I I always have to now have like prep for podcast time so I can like   DAT-Dana (02:12) Yeah.   Like Boss's Day or something like that. Yeah.   Tiff (02:35) just tame my hair or get my ring light just right. And I'm like, gosh, I remember the days that we did not have to do this. And then we have c new to Dental A Team consultants come on and I'm like, we're gonna podcast. And they're like stressed and I'm like, I get it. I just I get it. I saw them go talk yourself in the mirror for a bit first. You'll get used to it.   DAT-Dana (02:50) Yeah. Yeah.   I know   I remember in the early days I would always have to reframe my podcast because I'd see podcasting on my schedule and I'm like, ⁓ like I gotta get on. So then I just started reframing it. It was like time with Tiff, time with Britt, time with Kiera. And it's how I like kind of learn get over the like of the podcasting space. So I totally feel it when new consultants are like, I have my first podcast today.   Tiff (03:12) I love that.   Yeah,   yeah, and they all come to you, right? 'Cause I'll all schedule it and then they're like, Dana, what do I do? That's so cute. Yeah. I love the reframe. That actually like goes I think hand in hand with what we're talking about today. ⁓ but I think you can do that with anything and I have to remind myself, even like gosh, when I get up in the morning, I got up this morning and I went from for my walk and I was like, ⁓ this sucks and I was like, No, you get to be in the morning sun.   You get to move your body before anybody else in the house is awake. Like I think that's the part that's the hardest is like everybody else gets to sleep, you know? But you that reframe is so powerful. And we can look at a schedule and think I I look at my schedule and I'm like, shoot. This is so busy. Or gosh, I'm I'm like   So long today, and I have to reframe it often and be like, gosh, no, actually I get to do something really cool. And I get to wake up and go for a walk and I get to do these things or I get to go to an office and I get to be boots on the ground with other people. So I love that you mentioned that reframe, Dana. That was really smart. So today's reframe, which I love, I think this is one of the most popular conversations that we have. We get a couple of things here at Dental A Team. ⁓   We love everything that we get, but the most common, most popular things are systems, which we will help you with systems, I promise you. And there are thousands of podcasts I think that just Dana and I have done on systems and operations manual. So go look them up. We're not doing that today. And the second, which I actually really have grown to truly love, ⁓ is overhead cost reduction and and overhead analysis. And so many practice owners and leaders come to us and they're like, gosh.   what does overhead even mean? I know I had a conversation with a client last week that has been in the dental like consulting world for years and years and years. And w his question was what does that even what does it mean? Like overhead can mean so many different things to so many different people and so many different consulting companies. And for the sake of today's conversation and the sake of forever with Dental A Team know that when we say overhead, we are talking about top of the line   Whatever I always say if someone were to purchase your practice, what are the expenses they'd be taking over? Anything outside of that, your pay, your taxes, your debt, your debt will follow you typically, right? You can lump it into the loan, ⁓ but it's not overhead top of the line expense. So your debt, meaning your scanners, ⁓ your school debt, anything like that is outside of quote unquote overhead. So when we talk about overhead, it's top of the line and that had to that that   explanation, I think it can just vary. It can vary depending on who you're talking to. So today we wanted to reframe that, Dana Go. No, I love it.   DAT-Dana (06:08) and I don't want to interrupt you, but I think too just   just to be clear on overhead too, anything that you run through the business, right? Again, that's not something absolutely with your CPA, you structure it how you want. But understand that that's not an expense that somebody is going to take on when they take over the bracket.   Tiff (06:25) Yes, I love that. Thank you. Good clarification. so with this kind of reframe, every everybody's like reduce overhead, reduce overhead. And I totally agree. And a lot of a lot of companies, a lot of people, ⁓ a lot of strategists will come in and they're like, okay, what can we cut? And we for sure, like, we'll come in and look at what if there's space to make cuts, but our biggest piece is always we're not gonna spend a lot of time on it today because we've got a million other podcasts about it.   I think I just did one actually with Kristy not that long ago, but the first place we're gonna look is your collections. A lot of people will say, I need to over I need to produce. And I love the statement, you can't outproduce your problems. So if you're producing, producing, producing, producing, but you're still feeling like there's an issue. And if you're meeting the financial, like you're meeting your goal, your production goal, but you're still cash flow short, then there's an issue in your collections. And so look at your collections and Dana.   I would love to hear quick snippet, what are the areas that you tackle when it comes to overhead and it comes to collections? And then I want to talk about the reframes and the other pieces.   DAT-Dana (07:33) Yeah, so you're exactly right. The first thing I'm gonna look at is the collections number. I'll look at the total, like what is the total percentage and like what profit point do we need to get to when it comes to collections? And then the very next thing I'm gonna look at is your AR because honestly and truly I've been able to get practices out of cash flow crisis, out of really feeling that pinch simply by going after already produced   ⁓ monies. And so I think that those are usually the things that I look at. Okay, what are we collecting? What does our profit point need to be for healthy AR?   Right. And and obviously we're gonna talk about is that possible? How do we get your schedule to get you there? But then the very next thing I'm gonna look at is AR. Is there money that I can just quickly tackle that's already been produced that's gonna help the collections problem? So I'm looking at the total collections, collections percentage, and then what's sitting in AR, because if I can tackle that and make a really quick difference, ⁓ sure, we can budget things, we can line item your PL, we can we can chop where we need to, but those things are often the fastest, easiest, quickest fixes.   and like you said, you like outproducing the problem. If I can fix AR and then we can create systems that it doesn't happen again, oftentimes we don't even have to really touch production, right? Because we're already producing pretty well in a lot of these cases. So those are that's kind of where I start.   Tiff (08:46) Yeah.   Yeah, I love that. And it's something that makes such a massive difference. Knowing one, knowing your numbers, knowing what your numbers mean. So knowing your overhead, knowing your outgoing expenses is massive. And then looking to see, okay, well, if these are my outgoing expenses, what do I need to collect in order to profit? Right. And then if we're not collecting that, is it because production isn't where it needs to be? So what's our what's our bare minimum?   And is collections meeting that or is production meeting that so that collections can meet our bare minimum. If production is or is way above and our collections is just tanked, like I saw somebody the other day that was like 83% collections. They're like, we gotta produce more. And I Yeah, absolutely. If we want to maintain 83% collections and get your overhead in line, you for sure have to produce more. But also we can tackle your collections and get your collections up to that ninety-eight percent that it should be or above, and really not have to work   you harder as the provider work our numbers harder and get that collections up. It also kind of flows into Dana, I think the capacity that we just recorded a podcast. So probably the podcast ahead of this one I would assume is is about capacity. And I think that capacity conversation flows into this one really, really well. So all right, collections.   Go do it. We will harp on that for days, but go do it. If you need help with it, you're not sure, you don't know how to analyze it, you need help with your numbers, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We are honestly and truly here to help you. We will provide you as much information as we possibly can to get you on the right track. Now, something else that we like to do within that, and we talked about this on capacity, we talked about analyzing ⁓ fee schedules, right? But then we also need to analyze expenses. So when we're really looking at things and we're saying, okay.   Great, this is my overhead. I like to think, okay, does it have to be my overhead though? So a lot of people will look at staff cost, the employee cost. I actually I look at it, I kind of glaze that, you guys. I don't, I don't like to touch the staff cost unless it absolutely is extraordinary and there's maybe team members that are taking advantage or you're feeling like there's something culturally wrong in your practice, then I'm gonna say, okay, great.   Let's really take a look at this and make sure that we're being efficient with our time. We're not in overtime. We're not in those spaces. But I'm gonna kind of glaze at that unless there's a red flag somewhere else. And then I'm gonna look at those other expenses as well. And something that I really love to do is to analyze what do we need versus what we have. It reminds me of when Brody was little, we'd go to the store and he'd be like, Mom, is this a want or a need? Is it on your list? Is you have are you getting it because you just want it and it sounds exciting?   Or do we actually need this? And Dana, I love the conversation that you have around. I'm gonna say like analyze your vendors, analyze your contracts with vendors, but I love the conversation around ⁓ the wants versus needs when it comes to scanners, when it comes to mills. And I love I I miss the conversation actually. I miss the conversation of negotiate with your labs. And I miss that conversation because   I think that the mill has become such a bandwagon thing. It's been around for so long and it's such a bandwagon thing that everybody's that jumped into. But I love your your like evaluation of is it necessary? Is it actually going to save us the time and the money and get us the results that we want? And I would love, Dana, for you to talk through some of that and how you help your clients decide. Because I'm not against the mill, I'm not for it. I'm for it for the practices that it works.   And I'm for making sure that it's going to work and it's gonna do its due diligence. So what how is that conversation for you, Dana, when you talk to your practices about it   DAT-Dana (12:44) Yes. I love this conversation too, too. I   think first and foremost, I always want to know when when somebody wants to purchase something big like that. So whether it's a new scanner or whether it's a mill, like why.   Why do we want to purchase it? Is it because we have a scanner that we constantly use and we're constantly pulling and we never have it in the like appointment times that we need? So then we need to talk about adding another scanner. Is it that like we need another tool to show patients, but like could we just do IOPs a little bit more until we've got the budget set for the scanner? I'm not saying no to scanners. I'm not saying no to mills. I'm just saying, why do we want it? Is it the right time and is it going to do what you anticipate it's going to do as far as your budget goes?   Because I think we can talk about scanners and what's going to add so much more to my production. Okay, well, it is, but when are we going to use it? How often are we going to use it? Who's going to use it? How are we mapping it out to make sure that it really is putting more production on your schedule and it really is reducing your lab fees? Right. Scanner is a great tool for negotiating with a lab, but are you going to do that? Are you going to do the negotiations? Are you going to send them enough work to make it worth having the scanner?   Same thing with the mill. I'm always asking like why, right? And I know that kind of the mill is the hot spot or the mill is like the next big thing. And I think sometimes, you know, I hear a lot from doctors, well, it's gonna buy me back a lot of time. Well, it's only gonna buy you back time if you're going to let your assistant, right, help design and do the actual milling. If you're not gonna let that happen, then we're actually using more of your time than and sometimes it's not will you let them, it's do you have the capacity within your assistant team right now to be able to allow them.   Tiff (14:07) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   DAT-Dana (14:21) to do those things because maybe we're short staffed in that area or maybe assistants are really hard to find. Well then maybe now's not the time to bring on the mill because it's actually going to use more of your time versus less of your time. And then you know all of these purchases typically come with either a large payout, right? Or a decent size loan that we're paying every single month. And so I like to kind of reverse engineer with my practices so they know cold hard facts how many crowns they have to do every single month.   to make that loan payment worth it or make that payout out of their emergency fund or their growth fund or wherever they're pulling that funds from. Hopefully not their emergency funds, but sometimes right, doctors get wild on us and it feels like an emergency to get that.   Mill. So knowing exactly how many crowns you have to do every single month. And then I'm saying, okay, let's go back through the last year. Let's see, did we even do as many? Because if we didn't do as many, then now's not the time. Let's get to that many crowns every single month, then take a look at the mill. Because so often we think, hey, the mill is going to save me on lab fees, but you have to do so many of them for it to save you on lab fees. And again, I'm not pro mill. I'm not like I'm neutral when it comes to mill. I think it's a great tool, but it's not the best tool for every   Tiff (15:25) Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   DAT-Dana (15:35) practice at that exact time. I think you really have to look   At and crunch things when you decide to make those purchases and really look at it as is it truly going to give your time back? Is it truly going to give you your lab fees back? Is it truly going to up your patient experience or up your diagnosis or whatever it is? Because that is when it makes it worth it. So I just like to like have the conversation, review the numbers together, and kind of say, hey, like this is the reality of the purchase. I, you know, I am.   Totally understand the like purchase in the feels, right? I get that. I've done it. I'm human. I think we've all been like, but this is gonna feel so good when I have it. But I think look at the numbers and make sure because these things can really hit your these these debt services can really hit your profit points if it's not set up correctly and you don't know kind of the benchmarks you have to hit to make it help with profit versus hurt.   Tiff (16:11) Yeah.   Yeah.   Absolutely. I think it's so beautiful. And a follow-up to that too is if you already have the mill, you already have the scanner, you already made the purchase or the laser, Dana, as you were talking, I was like, the lasers, the lasers. There's so many there's just so many really cool tools that dentistry has that makes us feel like we've got to jump on it to be the most progressive, to be the most exciting, to stay up with the times, to to not fall behind. And really they're just fun and exciting. It's like   ⁓ Canva and you know we only had Photoshop and then Canva came out and then we had, you know, all of these different opportunities. And it it can be easy to jump on board with them. So if we already have jumped on board, we didn't have this conversation, or maybe we did, and then gosh, we're just falling a little bit short. This is the overhead analysis as well. This all flows into that overhead analysis. So as you're looking at your overhead and you see those   those loans under on you have your bottom you have your top line and you have a bottom line. And at your bottom line, when you see those other loans in there and you're like, gosh, Def, Dana, I just I'm not using the scanner as much as I thought I did. I know both of us have I all of our consultants are really, really fantastic at having conversations like this that say, okay, great, why? Dana, you said something earlier, you said it asking more questions, right? Like I want to know, I want to know why you want it.   what it's gonna do for your practice and then reverse engineer it. And we are really great at pulling out the why for anything. So if you're not, if you bought it and you're not using it, we're gonna say, well, why aren't we using it? Is it because it's not the tool that we needed or we wanted and or we don't have the patient base for it or is it because we're not trained, we're not holding accountabilities. And ultimately, if this thing isn't working for your practice, it's not doing what you wanted it to or gosh, you just hate it. You don't like it. You don't want to use it.   This is a conversation with the company that you can have. You can call the company and say, Hey, what can I do? How can I how can I get out of this? I've had ⁓ I've had doctors that have had this conversation with them and they do have like a smaller buyout, right? They're like, Well, we'll buy it back from you, but you're gonna it's kind of like taking a car in and you you're you know, you're under.   So you you owe a little bit more on your car and then you owe on the car that you're buying. So it kind of sucks because you do have to pay that out, but could getting out of that contract early, sending the equipment back, save you in the long run because you haven't paid that total balance. Or a lot of doctors will call and they're like, yeah, absolutely. I have a doctor actually who's looking for one that might buy it from you.   And so you can you can sell this equipment as well if it's not working for you. So I don't ever want doctors to really just feel so stuck in the decisions that either they've made or that they want to make and you have that kind of decision paralysis. So as we're going through that looking at ⁓ cost control and overhead control.   Part of the conversation as well. So there's the projecting side and really looking at do I do I need this? What can it do? And then there's the evaluation side of is this working for me? And Dana, I think that same conversation when it comes to like marketing. Are is my marketing ROI coming in? Is it getting me what I what I thought it was going to? There's magazines investments, there's all of these like hottie-totty ⁓ marketing efforts that are coming around right now. They're trying to like really reinvent a lot of wheels.   And projecting and seeing, does this fit my avatar? Is this gonna work? Gosh, your telephone company, I know our like cable and internet. We don't even have cable, but it's the same company, right? And I'm like, why are we paying for cable and internet? And it just jumped like $90. And I'm like, what the heck? It's a call and a conversation with your vendors and looking at, okay, am I getting the most value for what I'm spending? And that I think Dana helps us to calm the storm.   Because what happens typically is we're like, okay, I gotta produce more in order to afford my life. And it's just like personal, right? I gotta work more in order to afford the lifestyle that I want. Well, maybe the lifestyle that you want can be had with less debt or less stuff, you know, and really evaluating your quote unquote lifestyle in the practice and out.   DAT-Dana (20:43) Yeah, I agree with you because like dental offices, do we have to spend money? Do we have expenses? Yes, absolutely. Let's make sure those expenses are doing what we need them to do and and we have an ROI on those expenses. And I do feel like just doctors highlighting like, don't forget those bottom of the line things because oftentimes it's like, hey, my payroll's in line, my rent's in line, my marketing is in line, everything's in line, but I don't have any profit at the end of the month. And I think don't forget to take a look at oftentimes I think there's an impression of doctors that like those below the   aligned things are like fixed expenses and oftentimes they are variable expenses that we can do something about it. We can make changes like you said, sell it or start using it, right? Or incorporating a way for it to help us produce or collect more. I think just don't forget those bottom of the line things and don't look at them as hey, those are fixed things, right? A lot of times those items aren't. We can either move the needle as far as using them or move the needle as far as offloading them.   Tiff (21:15) Uh-huh.   Yes.   DAT-Dana (21:42) Right. I just had a conversation with the practice. Like, why do we have two scanners? Right. Like, why do we need them? Walk me through it. If if you can walk me through why and it makes sense, totally keep your scanners, utilize them, have it help you. Right. But if we don't need them, then let's not have that sit there every month and pull from that profit that you so desperately need.   Tiff (21:45) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, I love that conversation and I think it's something that's a piece of value that the consulting team brings to our clients that I think is totally undervalued. I know I have clients that are like, Teff, I wanna buy this thing. And I'm like, Okay, cool. Like, tell me why. How are we gonna afford it? Great. I have a doctor that was like, I like this scanner better, but I bought this scanner before I knew that this scanner was better. And I was like, Awesome. Well it sounds you want that scanner. He's like, Yeah, I'm gonna get it. And I said, Cool, what are you gonna do with that scanner that you don't like?   Because that one is still being paid on. It's still in your office. And he's like, okay. So it's like we have this innate ability, right, to see things very, very cleanly. I had a conversation just last week with a client that was like, Tiff, what do I do? And it was like a personnel thing, right? I said, Listen, my job and the and the superpower that I have for you is to be very black and white in business. I'm not emotionally attached to what's going on in the practice. I I love you, I love the practice, I love the team.   And I I have emotions towards you, but I'm able to separate it out and say, hey, do this, don't do this, or these are the black and white opinions that I see. These are the pros and the cons that I can see. I'm not emotionally attached to one scanner is better than the other. I'm emotional, I'm not emotionally attached to the money that's coming in or going out. I am neutral and I'm able to say it is or it isn't. And so that value, that ROI is not always really easy to see.   in the numbers until you look backwards and say, gosh, actually I sold that scanner because of or I didn't buy that and gosh, I'm so happy. Or I was able to invest in my team because I could see my shortcomings or my accountability faults or the accountability that Dana was able to give me so that I could give my team like those spaces are just so   valuable in this overhead analysis is huge. And I know you and I do it often. I know the rest of the consulting team does. Gosh, Kristy, Kiera likes to say she's like a truffle hunting ⁓ little, you know, little piggy out there finding the dollars. And that's how she does it as well. And Nikki and Pam and all of you know, Diana, every one of us are out there looking for those dollars from that black and white kind of business mindset because it's easier for us as a pulled out   Peace, right? And Dana, I just think that is a space that doctors, I can't imagine making those kinds of decisions by myself, right? Even just as simple as purchasing a mill. Like because it's so it's like walk walking into Louis Vuitton with a credit card with no limits and expecting me to not leave with a purse, right? Because in my head it's paid for, it's done, it's it's good.   But then on the flip side, I've got expenses and other things and they've always got just gotta have that person who can be that sound mind.   DAT-Dana (24:58) Yeah. Yep. I agree with you.   Tiff (25:00) All right, Dana, so overhead cost analysis. ⁓ I would say, and I think Dana, add anything you can think of. My pro thought process is figure out your bottom line first of all. Figure out what are your costs, your fixed costs that aren't changing. If someone were to purchase your practice, then then look at what's left over. How much debt do you have? what do you want to be making? Are you paying yourself and are you paying yourself what you want to be making?   And are you saving money? So what do those buckets look like? That to me is your is your bare minimum. You have your bare minimum of this is what it takes to keep my practice open and my employees paid. And then you have your bare minimum of this is what I want my practice to look like. So I like to add that fluff in there. I know Dana does as well. We have our bare minimum and then we have our bare minimum. And our our second bare minimum is the number that I work from ⁓ and tack on a little bit extra. So overhead analysis, look at what your numbers are, look at what your   DAT-Dana (25:46) How many? Yeah.   Tiff (25:55) Collecting, always look at collections and then look at what your debt looks like and look at what your spending is. Is there anywhere in there that can be negotiated? Is there anywhere in there that maybe we need to start using a tool a little bit more to get it paid, paying for itself? Just like you want your team to pay for themselves, you want your equipment to pay for themselves as well. Dana, is there anything you can think of that I missed that I didn't add in there as an action item that they can scurry on home to do?   DAT-Dana (26:24) No, I think I think that those are great tools for them to really be able to slice and dice and look at those pieces.   Tiff (26:31) Awesome. All right, guys, go do the thing. Pull up your PLs, pull up month by month, pull up year to date, pull up last year's, and look at what your expenses truly are. And when you get to the point that you want some third-party perspective, some eyes on it, if you're a current client, you should be doing this with your consultant too. So do it. I want you to know how to do it and I want you to do it with your consultant as well. If you're not yet a consultant, you're ⁓ someone who is a listener and you want you're not a consultant, you're not a client.   You're a listener and you want help with this, please reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com There's also a link on our website, TheDentalATeam.com, that you can schedule a consult with us and they'll help you run through a lot of that information as well. We are here to help. So let us know how we can best serve you and how we can help you in the short and the long run. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. All right, guys, and we will catch you next time. Thanks so much.  

Jodi revisits the 3-3-3 packing rule while Murphy swears by his plus-one method for vacation. Sam's got the scoop on M&M's ditching their blue and brown colors and a new fried apple pie at McDonald's. Plus, the beautiful World Cup tradition of Japanese fans cleaning up the stadiums, and the Madonna biopic that's officially fallen apart.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hour 2 of the Marc Cox Morning Show is packed from the first word to the last. Live from Whitmore Country Club, Marc and Kim set the stage for a half-million-dollar fundraiser for the spouses and children of America's fallen warriors — American flags lining every entrance and patriots ready to tee off for Folds of Honor. Nicole Murray brings the business headlines — oil dropping as Iran peace talks progress in Switzerland, SpaceX stumbling after its record IPO, and World Cup tourists stiffing American servers coast to coast. Then the St. Louis Morning Brief drops a bombshell — the city slashed a million dollars from the police budget in retaliation for command staff raises, the Festus recall fight heads to court, and Marc Cox makes the case for Amendment 5 and putting $5,000 back in your family's pocket. And In Other News wraps it all up — ultrasonic espresso, M&M's going natural, a Palestinian flag grabbed at graduation, a mom diving into a crocodile pit, and pinball finally legal in South Carolina. Rocky Sickman joins next hour — don't go anywhere. HOUR HASHTAGS: #MarcCoxMorningShow #Hour2 #FoldsOfHonor #NicoleMurray #StLouisMorningBrief #InOtherNews #Amendment5 #MissouriIncomeTax #StLouisPolice #IranDeal #WorldCup #ConservativeRadio #STLConservative #MarcCox #PatriotVoices HOUR 2 GUEST LIST: Nicole Murray — Business reporter delivering market headlines including oil price drops tied to Iran peace talks and SpaceX's post-IPO slide

Tänään Mukillisella Motivaatiota Niina jakaa siitä, mikä saa hänet kokemaan suuttumuksen tunteita ja mistä se kertoo. Miksi me häpeämme Häntä, joka ei hävennyt meitä? Mm. tätä pohditaan tämän viikon Mukillisella Motivaatiota.

Essentiel – Le rendez-vous culture de RCJ – Sandrine Sebbane Spécial Festival des Cultures Juives, Avec Liat Cohen, guitariste, qui viendra nous parler du concert de clôture du Festival des Cultures Juives le 29 juin 2026, Au Théâtre de la Ville - Sarah Bernhardt. Avec Fabienne Cohen-Salmon de l'Action Culturelle du FSJU. Et Frédéric Hutman, chroniqueur musique sur RCJ, pour son livre “Ondes sensibles - Pianistes Entretiens” aux éditions MM.

欢迎收听雪球出品的财经有深度，雪球，国内领先的集投资交流交易一体的综合财富管理平台，聪明的投资者都在这里。今天分享的内容叫20年前日本经历的，对我们有什么启发？来自六亿居士。二零零五年的日本，不少媒体喊经济进入了回暖期，一些企业的营收增长，股价也水涨船高，似乎确实有了一些欣欣向荣的转变之象。但稍微深入一点，我们发现普通人的日子并没得变轻松，还在蹉跎甚至一步步往下走。大部分普通人的薪水没涨，身上背负着房贷车贷，教育医疗的成本也在上升，甚至连常吃的牛肉都得算着日子买。中国有句古话叫：旱的旱死，涝的涝死，社会的财富分配出现走向两端的态势。日本过去几十年出现的现象，可能有些景象让我们感同身受。站在一个普通人的角度，我们如何应对可能的M型社会，如何调整自己的预期、投资和消费策略？一、为什么日本滑进了M型社会？当时日本的复苏，从来源看主要靠海外需求撑着，还有一部分则是“降本增效”，裁员了自然成本就低了。从财报看，业绩有所企稳、成本大幅控制，利润就出来了。但企业的稳定性和长期性有待商榷，且普通员工的生活压力更大了。根据日本国税厅数据，二零零三年日本人平均年收入跌到580万日元，比10年前少了80万。如果以600万日元为界，年收入超1000万的高收入层没少多少，中上层（600万到1000万）几乎腰斩，中低阶层（300万到600万）和低层（300万以下）加起来占了近八成。日本大部分公司都有一种“进公司则终身饭碗、熬资历便升职加薪“的职场规则。但一九九五年以后，日本非正式员工（合同工、兼职工）越来越多，到二零零五年每三个劳动者里就有一个是非正式的，收入只有正式员工的一半不到。当压力来临，终身饭碗的历史惯性也逐渐破碎。还有一个更深的压力，来自当时日本社会的平均年龄。二零零五年日本出生人口已低于死亡人口，按当时推算到二零二五年，日本人口中位数年龄将超过50岁。最新数据显示，二零二五年日本的平均年龄为49.8岁，整体接近。劳动人口减少，社保支出膨胀，年轻人负担越来越重。更关键的是，在经济快速扩张的阶段，受各种约束，日本的产业结构没有形成稳健的架构。无论从产业的完整度、结构的健壮度、需求的分散度以及产业的创新度，都存在着较为不小的短板。当经济增速下滑，人口红利不再，产业先发失速，便只能极致内卷，不断挤压浮于虚空的中产阶层，只有少部分人向上爬上，而大部分普通人则再次跌入底层，自然而然地出现了M型社会。值得留意的是，日本的经验只是一面镜子，不是剧本。国情不同、底蕴差异巨大，我们虽然也会碰到类似问题，但经济的稳健度、产业的完整度、科技的创新度又有着很大的差异。放到全局的角度，我们有足够的力量走出不同的道路。但从个体看，我们仍然要谨慎于一些特定的困难。二、个人如何破局？扔掉中产执念说大局其实情绪高昂，但于事无补。这是全书对普通读者最有价值的部分，是提醒普通人放弃中产执念。以前大家都会跟着标配走，买房、买车、给孩子报补习班，不时给自己一个假期，偶尔还买买奢侈品，这套逻辑在M型社会里变成了甜蜜陷阱。第一个执念：必须买房大前研一算过一笔账：在东京通勤1.5小时的地方买套5000万日元的房子，算上利息要还7000万。如果在通勤30分钟的地方租房，30年下来比买房省2500多万。省下的钱完全能在郊外买个周末度假小屋，平时住市区通勤方便，周末去郊外放松。这一点放在5年前，我们愿意听进去的人可能并不多，而在这几年的房地产下行中，越来越多的人已经感受到了这一点。站在我的角度，买房也好、租房也罢，其实不是重点。重点是不要因为一些面子问题，放大杠杆，给自己上不必要的压力，最终因为现金流问题而承压。第二个执念：必须买车在都市里，买车除了车钱，每月停车费、车检、保险、保养加起来一年要20多万日元。但如果平时坐地铁、周末租车，一年撑死花5万。省下来的15万能报个课程，或者带家人旅行。我们也有很多人，因为面子问题，咬牙买豪车。作为典型的消费品，汽车的保值率很低，如果站在投资的角度，撑着买好车的性价比比买房更低。好在我国的新能源快速崛起，国产新势力迅速壮大，越来越多的年轻人已经拥抱国产，摒弃了老一辈的唯进口论、唯大牌论，反而养成了更理性的消费习惯。第三个执念：教育内卷数据显示，年收入1000万日元以下的家庭，教育费能占收入的35%。但没有证据证明补习班越多未来越好。对孩子来说，父母的陪伴比补习班重要得多，花2小时陪孩子聊社会、聊困难，比花2小时送他刷题有用。学校老师大多没什么社会经验，教不了孩子怎么面对挫折、怎么思考人生，这些只能靠父母。别把教育外包给补习班，你的时间和耐心才是孩子最需要的教育投资。在我国这个问题同样突出，并且暂时还没有看到太突出的变化。基于传统习惯，读书对于中国人而言就是天，对孩子教育的平均重视程度，可谓独步全球。经过这么多年的积累，我们有了全球最庞大的、受过高等教育的年轻人，这是我们产业转型的最大底气之一。但我们也看到，随着社会老龄化、教育内卷化、家庭少子化等多重因素叠加，孩子们的学习压力其实仍在进一步提升。而千军万马过独木桥之后的结果，可能还不一定理想。好在，随着国内各种新兴产业的兴起，很多看似“不传统”的工作走上舞台，年轻人用自己的热爱和方法，告诉老一辈：其实，条条大路通罗马。三、对人生和投资的启发这本书虽然在讲社会变迁、产业结构、经济周期以及社会现象，但它的底层逻辑和我们一直在聊的话题是相通的。第一，调整预期，不追求极致M型社会的核心特征是中间塌陷，既中产消失，大部分人的收入增长停滞。映射到投资上，过去二十年很多资产的高回报，部分来自经济增长的Beta。如果未来经济增长中枢下移，资产的长期回报率也会相应调整。接受这个现实，设定更合理的收益预期，是长期投资的第一步。而且，从投资便利性的角度，现在的工具完全支持我们进行全球化分散投资，从底层结构提升投资的稳定性和收益率。第二，现金流比资产增值更重要在收入增长放缓的环境里，能持续产生现金流的资产比博取价格上涨的资产更具抗风险能力。比如选择核心宽基指数，其背后是会周期性新陈代谢、跟上时代节奏的几百家公司的成长，即便市场波动，这种成长也是一种必然。更重要的是，我常常提醒分红的重要性，在增速放缓的环境里，我们不清楚什么时候会碰到现金流压力。而持有资产的分红、利息或房租等所产生的现金流，是我们行稳致远的保障。第三，安全边际比以往任何时候都重要正所谓：一分钱，难倒英雄汉。中产消失的过程，本质上是容错率降低的过程，比如加大杠杆买大房子，借钱买豪车，为了一时的面子或爽感，其实损害了财产的稳健度。遇到降薪、失业或临时危机，都可能产生不好的结果。投资上也是一样，不要参与不熟悉的标的，不要借钱加杠杆，不要追逐不熟的热点。在低估时选择契合自己风险偏好的标的，基于安全边际有耐心地定投，在高估时果断止盈，长期的活在市场里，是最重要的一件事。第四，投资自己是最稳妥的资产大前研一反复强调，中低阶层时代最该投入的是自己的技能和竞争力。这个建议放在今天依然适用，无论是主业精进，还是培养可迁移的副业能力，都是对抗收入不确定性的有效手段。这和《小狗钱钱》里“养一只永远不杀的鹅”是同一个逻辑：你本身就是那只最核心的鹅。大前研一写的是二零零五年的日本，但20年后再读，有些困境并不陌生，相反还有些眼熟。中产焦虑加剧、收入分化显现、房价、教育、养老压力叠加，这些问题不只属于日本，也不只属于那个时代。对普通人而言，真正的应对不是恐慌，不是躺平，而是扔掉那些执念，把精力放在自己真正能控制的事情上。对于大部分普通人而言，慢就是快，稳就是赢。

In episode 497 of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb bring the Parable of the Talents to a close with one of the most theologically rich discussions in recent memory. Beginning in Matthew 25:24, they zero in on the one-talent servant — not merely as a cautionary tale about productivity, but as a profound case study in distorted theology. The servant's fatal error wasn't laziness alone; it was a fundamentally false picture of his master. That mischaracterization produced a craven, fearful inaction that the hosts argue maps directly onto the eschatological stakes of the parable. Drawing on Calvin, William Ames, and Reformed confessional commitments, Tony and Jesse make the case that right theology is never merely academic — it shapes the whole of life, and ultimately determines one's eschatological destiny. Key Takeaways The one-talent servant's core failure is theological, not behavioral — he constructs a false image of his master as harsh and exploitative, and that distorted theology governs everything that follows. False theology produces fatal inaction — the servant's fear is not godly fear but a craven dread rooted entirely in his mischaracterization of the master's character. The knowledge of God and the knowledge of self are inseparable — following Calvin's Institutes, the hosts argue that a right understanding of God as gracious and generous will produce active, trusting faithfulness, while a distorted view produces fearful, minimal compliance. The parable is fundamentally eschatological, not merely practical — interpreting the talents primarily as spiritual gifts or ministry opportunities misses the point; the parable is about who belongs to the master's kingdom and who does not. Character precedes action — the faithful servants do not become faithful by producing returns; they produce returns because they are faithful. The wicked servant buries his talent because he is wicked, not the other way around. William Ames understood the servant's sin as a violation of the ninth commandment — by burying his talent, the servant effectively bears false witness against God's own estimation of the gift, rejecting both the gift and the Giver. The "outer darkness" language is not out of place — it is the natural eschatological conclusion for someone who never genuinely knew or trusted the master, making the parable a picture of what it means to be outside the grace and presence of God entirely. Key Concepts False Theology as the Root of Inaction The most striking feature of the one-talent servant's account is not what he did — or failed to do — but what he believed. He tells his master, "I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed." Tony and Jesse point out that nothing in the parable supports this characterization. A master who entrusts his servants with what amounts to decades of wages — hundreds of years' worth of labor between three servants — is not a hard, exploitative figure. He is astonishingly generous and trusting. The servant has constructed a theological fiction, and that fiction becomes the prison of his own inaction. This is not a peripheral observation; it is the interpretive key to the entire parable. What we believe about God determines everything about how we live before Him. The Knowledge of God Shapes the Whole of Life Calvin famously opens the Institutes with the observation that the knowledge of God and the knowledge of self are so bound together that it is nearly impossible to determine which is logically prior. Jesse draws on this insight to show that the one-talent servant's self-understanding — timid, fearful, paralyzed — flows directly from his distorted image of God. A person who genuinely knows God as gracious, generous, and long-suffering will be motivated to active, trusting faithfulness. A person who privately believes God to be harsh and demanding will retreat into fearful, minimalist compliance. This is not merely a first-century observation. It is a diagnostic tool for self-examination: the shape of our obedience reveals the shape of our theology. Reformed orthodoxy has always insisted that right doctrine is not academic — it is the engine of the Christian life. Character Precedes Action — The Anti-Works-Righteousness Reading One of the most important guardrails Tony and Jesse set up in this episode is against a subtle works-righteousness reading of the parable. It is tempting to hear the parable and conclude: do productive things for the kingdom, and you will be welcomed as a good and faithful servant. But the hosts argue that this inverts the logic of the text entirely. The faithful servants are not commended because they generated a return; they generated a return because they are faithful servants. The wicked servant buries his talent because he is wicked — his character drives his conduct, not the reverse. Justification and sanctification alike are received by faith in Christ alone, and no reading of this parable should suggest that our eschatological standing is secured by our productivity. The sheep act like sheep because they are sheep. That punchline, Tony notes, will carry them straight into the sheep and the goats passage next week. Memorable Quotes "Who is it that's not going to be saved in the last day? It's the people who don't recognize the master. The people who think that the master is a hard man who reaps where he has not sown and gathers where he has not scattered. Well, if we think that's who God is, we have a lot of trouble coming our way." — Tony Arsenal "A person who genuinely knows the living God as gracious, generous, long-suffering, with that kind of hesed kind of love — that person will be motivated to active, trusting faithfulness. A person who privately believes God to be harsh and demanding is always going to retreat in this fearful, minimal kind of compliance." — Jesse Schwamb "The sheep act like sheep because they're sheep. They don't become sheep because they do sheep things. They do sheep things because they're sheep." — Tony Arsenal Full Transcript Welcome to episode four hundred and ninety seven of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse  And I'm Tony, and this is the podcast with ears to hear Hey, brother  [00:00:42] Jesse Schwamb: Hey, brother. We're back at it again. We're hanging out in Matthew's gospel, the 25th chapter, and it's time to, I think, close out the Parable of the Talents, where we've got two servants that double their master's money, and one who buries his in the ground like a Calvinist who's confused predestination with doing nothing. And of course, all of this irony is the faithful servants, they can't even take credit. The master supplied the capital, the ability, and apparently even the bull market. It's grace all the way down. But meanwhile, the one talent guy returns exactly what he was given and he gets absolutely wrecked, and we're gonna dig into that. Gonna dig into- ... that later.  [00:01:26] Affirm or Deny Segment [00:01:26] Jesse Schwamb: But before we do, it's what everybody's waiting for. It's that time in the podcast where we affirm with something that we really like or we recommend or we think is undervalued, or we deny against something that's exactly the opposite. Not worth it, no good, get it out of here. So Tony, are you affirming with or denying against?  [00:01:43] Tony Arsenal: I'm denying against something related to the World Cup. Um-  [00:01:47] Jesse Schwamb: Okay ...  [00:01:48] Tony Arsenal: I am not a purist, so please don't hear me as, like, elitist soccer dude who is resistant to any sort of changes, but, um, I didn't actually even know this was happening. Are you following the World Cup at all, Jesse? [00:02:01] Jesse Schwamb: I'm trying to. I'm not against it, I'm just finding myself- Yeah ... stuck in  [00:02:05] Tony Arsenal: trying to like- There, there's a lot going on.  [00:02:06] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah ... yeah, coordinate everything.  [00:02:07] Tony Arsenal: Um, one of the things that they... And they're at weird times this year too- Yes ... at least so far they are.  [00:02:11] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:02:11] Hydration Breaks Rant [00:02:11] Tony Arsenal: Um, one of the things this year that I noticed that I didn't know was happening, and I hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it, is, uh, I, I guess I understand why they're doing it, but they've instituted what they're calling mandatory hydration breaks-  [00:02:25] Jesse Schwamb: Oh,  [00:02:26] Tony Arsenal: I've read about this uh, into the games. Yeah. And essentially what this has done is it's turned a game that used to be, uh, and has always been two 45-minute halves-  [00:02:38] Jesse Schwamb: Mm-hmm ...  [00:02:38] Tony Arsenal: um, uh, with overage time, right? So, like, the, the ref will sometimes just, like, add a couple minutes. Usually it's, you know, three to five, maybe 10 minutes at the most to the end of the, the half. They've turned that from, uh, two 45-minute halves into now four, what is that? Like, 23-minute quarters, 22 and a half- Right ... minute quarters. Um, and they're not always quarters. They're not always evenly split. They sometimes do the hydration break early or later. Um, this is awful. It's just awful, right? One of the, one of the, um, maybe this is me being a little bit of a soccer purist. One of the things about soccer that makes it a challenging sport is the endurance of it.  [00:03:21] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:03:22] Tony Arsenal: Right? And contrary to what I think most people think when they watch soccer, um, it's one of the few games, few professional games that doesn't have a ton of breaks- Right? There's not a lot of times where, where match play actually stops for any real amount of time. Um, and that's what stoppage time is. It's not intended to be something like football, where there often is time on the clock where the clock is still moving, but the game is not, like, actively progressing forward, right? Right. You have to do something special to stop the clock. In soccer, uh, at least historically, 45 minutes of play is 45 minutes of play. It's, it's 45 minutes of actual actionable play. And now, um, you know, they stop the game. The clock doesn't continue, but now the game stre- like, the, the game itself stretches longer 'cause they've introduced these additional breaks. So I'm denying, uh... This just sounds like s- I'm such a ghoul here. I'm denying mandatory hydration breaks, not because I want soccer players to get sunstroke. Uh, they get plenty of water. There's plenty of times they get to stop and get water. It's- And this is... We didn't have mandatory hydration breaks when the World Cup was in Qatar. Right. Right? And everybody, for the most part, was fine. Like, the players were all fine. There were no casualties on the field. I don't even recall, like, major medical problems on the field. We're in LA now. Yeah, it's warm, summer, but come on, guys. Like, let's, let's, let's be real. This is not, uh, this is not rec league. This is not, you know, U15 league play with, with kids. These are adult men who condition for a living. Like, this is their job, is to be conditioned and for their bodies to be in peak performance. So it's just... It just interrupts the game. I don't know. I'm, I'm being a little crotchety here, but I feel like I have a right to be 'cause this is my show, and I can do what I want to. That's absolutely true. So I'm denying hydration breaks, mandatory hydrat- hydration breaks, which change the game. And a commentator actually commented about that on, on the match the other day. Um, it changes the dynamic of the game. It changes the strategy of the game. Um, it changes the whole feel of the game, right from the strategy of how long you have to be able to go, right? This will change how- how footballers have to condition themselves, 'cause they're no longer having to condition themselves for two 45-minute halves. They're having to condition themselves for four 22-and-a-half minute quarters, um, which is not the same game as, as that. So anyway, we'll- it's yet to see, be seen if that has any real impact on the outcome of any games or anything like that. But it was annoying to me, so I'm denying mandatory hydration breaks. [00:05:59] Jesse Schwamb: That's great. We haven't had a good denial in a little while on this podcast. I think that's fantastic. I mean, not the break, but the denial itself. Plus, and I don't wanna be... You'll have to tell me if I'm speaking conspiratorial here, because most of my apparent World Cup and general sports news still comes from The Wall Street Journal, so that might be a weird place to get it. But- ... the, I became aware of this through an article that was lamenting the exact same thing. Yeah. It was just basically all the arguments that you said. Like, it's weird, and the game wasn't designed this way, and it's definitely like an interruption. It's definitely like an insertion.  [00:06:32] Ads and Soccer Purism [00:06:32] Jesse Schwamb: And then, of course, was all the stuff about, isn't this really about just allowing commercial break time, and it's more about that, and we're just conveniently saying that we need the hydration breaks. And what else would they, we have them do if we needed to force them to take a break but say, "You know what? Why don't you guys take a knee and get some water- Yeah ... while we show you some ads?" So I imagine that doesn't sit well with people either.  [00:06:52] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure that that's the case. Again, I, I haven't even been able to watch a full, full World Cup match, so I don't, I don't know... I don't even know how long the hydration breaks are, to be honest with you. But yes, it's an interruption in play where they can cut to commercial. And whether that was why they put this in place or not, or whether they're just utilizing it, it's obnoxious. Like, part of the fun of watching soccer is that there is no commercial break for the first 45 minutes. Right. Um, that's just part of- Which is unusual in sports ... part of the joy of the game, is that it's a continual game with no real breaks. Um, even when, like, a player is injured because, you know, there's an injury on the field or something like that, um, even when that happens, they don't cut to commercial because there was no planned commercial. They don't have anything there. Right. So, um, it's changed, like, the way... Y- you know, even, even things like this is gonna change how uniforms are thought out, because sponsorship money through uniforms used to be the m- one of the main commercial-driving, like, sponsorships for, um, for the game. So I'm just annoyed by it. [00:07:53] More Rule Changes [00:07:53] Tony Arsenal: There's an- a couple other things that I'm annoyed by this year. They have this... It's kinda like that automatic up call checker thing we talked about. Right. They have this, like, um- They call it mistaken identity, uh, recheck. Basically where if a player is fouled or appears to be fouled, they can, someone can flag it and it will recheck it and, like, digitally the system tells them whether there was a foul or not. And like I said before when we were talking about this a little bit before, um, there is a real element in the game, or there has been a real element to the game historically, where the ump is almost like, or the ref is almost like a third player, and you have to be wise and play the ref. Um, you have to, you know, there's, there's an element of a little bit of, uh, espionage and subtle- Right you know, subterfuge here going on in the game that I think people outside the game who are just watching, they look and they think like, "Oh, yeah, that guy flopped." But there's a whole, like, art and there's a whole form to that, and there's real cost if you do it poorly. Um, and so, like, we've already had one instance where a yellow card was called on a player. Uh, the other player simulated the foul. Um, and so they reversed it and gave the other guy a yellow card, but they did that after the game. Um, which, which is a whole other thing. Like, you play a whole game, um I could talk about this all night. Like when you get, when you get a red card- ... you're, you're out for an entire game, not just- Right the rest of this game. You're out for an entire game. Your position is out for an entire game, so that might mean you start the next match down a player. Well, what does that mean if you are given a red card sort of posthumously after the match, right? Right. Like, you- it's changed the whole calculation because for the whole game, that player, uh, was playing as though he didn't have a yellow card. And that, maybe that's good, maybe that's bad, but he was playing the game as though he didn't have a yellow card, and then all of a sudden now he does. Um, he doesn't go... I don't think he goes into the next match starting with a yellow card. Um, a- and so I'm kind of like, "Well, what's the, what's the point?" But, um, you know, some of that plays into, like, if there's ties and ties, match, match point ties, then they start looking at who has penalties and stuff. But either way, it's annoying that they, they're introducing this. Like, we didn't need to have... Yes, there's probably a place for reviewing a, a bad ref's calls. Right. They've also added, like, automatic on offsides. There was a whole strategy and a whole part of the game of forcing a person offsides, of drawing a person offsides, being offsides without looking like you're offsides. Some people may look at that and go, "Well, that's cheating," but no, it's actually just part of the game. Right. Like, playing the ref and understanding that is part of the game. And now it's still part of the game, but it's part of the game in a different way, and that's... Maybe I am just being a purist, but I just, I don't like it. I don't like it. Give me back my beautiful game the way it's always been and get off my lawn, get off the turf, get off my pitch, whatever. Um, I'm denying the fact that the World Cup is not as it's always been. But also, like, we don't need this stuff. Like, the World Cup has been fine for how many years?  [00:11:03] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:11:03] Tony Arsenal: We don't need water breaks like this- W- i- you know, if it was like last World Cup, five players died from dehydration in the middle of the... Like, okay, like yeah, let's do some water breaks. But like, nobody died. Nobody even had major medical emergencies. I think a couple people had to come out of the game a little early 'cause they weren't well-hydrated. But like- Right ... run to the side, get a water bottle. Like, you can do that in the middle of a game. There's nothing- Yeah ... against the rules to stand by the sideline, drink when someone's doing a substitution or even in the middle of the game. I've seen that happen, where someone will sprint over to the sideline, they'll take a drink of water, and then they'll throw the cup back over. So anywho, we should move on. This could be my entire, my entire rant of, for a whole episode- Good ... against the weird changes in, in World Cup soccer, so.  [00:11:48] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, I love it.  [00:11:49] Peacock Spanish Hack [00:11:49] Jesse Schwamb: My favorite hack, uh, for World Cup soccer so far this year, and this was given to me by a colleague, uh, and a brother, I think this is fantastic, is right now because my wife is convalescing, we have all the subscriptions temporarily to allow, like, the full healing process to take place. Watch whatever you want, wherever you want. Except for the World Cup, because the, uh... I- it was just, like, where you could actually get it in English was, like, crazy expensive, at least for me. So here's the thing, though. Somebody reminded me uh, that we have Peacock and that because of Telemundo, could just watch and stream the entire World Cup in Spanish. So guess what, loved ones? We're learning a lot more Spanish- I love it ... and we're watching the World Cup with the announcers on. I'm not turning off that, 'cause that's the best part. And, you know, I'm getting, like, 25% of what's being said, but it is awesome. And there's- Yeah ... a lot more energy and excitement. So if for some reason you have Peacock and you're saying, "Oh, I'm missing the World Cup," technically you don't have to. It's all there for you. That's amazing. Just you gotta embrace Spanish.  [00:12:46] Tony Arsenal: That's amazing. And yes, actually, it probably is more entertaining.  [00:12:49] Jesse Schwamb: It is.  [00:12:50] Tony Arsenal: Um, and you don't, you don't need to... You really don't need to understand what the commentator is- No I mean, like 90% of the time the commentator's like, "Oh, he's having a good year," and, uh- ... yeah, like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, he's looking real great. Do you see how his, uh, laces are laced up?" Like, they're just trying to fill time.  [00:13:05] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:13:05] Tony Arsenal: So it doesn't really matter what they're saying. And when it does matter what they're saying, you'll get it just from the-  [00:13:11] Jesse Schwamb: Yes [00:13:11] Tony Arsenal: just from what the announcer's voices are doing. So I'll have to check that out. Yeah, the, the matches are at weird times, at least so far. I think, I think that once we get out of group play, m- a lot of the matches shift to the East Coast, so there'll be, uh, a little bit more normal times.  [00:13:25] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:13:25] Tony Arsenal: But, like, the first, the first, uh, US match was at 9:00 Eastern Time, and then, like, the last one's at 10:00 Eastern Time. Yeah.  [00:13:32] Jesse Schwamb: So  [00:13:33] Tony Arsenal: late. Yeah, super late, and it's a, it's a three-hour match by the time you, you get done with halftime and everything. So yeah, it'll, it'll... It's, it's frustrating. Although historically, um, every time the men, the men's team has won their first match, they've gotten out of group play, and every time they've lost their fir- first match, they have not gotten out of group play. And we, we really, really won our first match. Yes. Yeah. So I think, I think we'll get out of group play. I think probably, depending on how the, the cards roll, um, we'll probably, we'll probably get through our first elimination round, maybe our second, but we're not gonna go much further than that. Um, even, even that would be a, a pretty good victory, so- Anyway, football is life, right? Danny Ross. Um, do, did you watch Ted last night? Yes,  [00:14:24] Jesse Schwamb: I have seen it. Yes.  [00:14:25] Tony Arsenal: That was good. Football is life. Um, that's me this time of year. Like, I wore a soccer jersey to work on Friday, and nobody could tell me I couldn't do that, and I didn't care. So- I  [00:14:33] Jesse Schwamb: love it ...  [00:14:34] Tony Arsenal: uh, nobody even tried. Everybody, everybody's fine. Everybody loves soccer- How dare they ... and loves the World Cup, so. Yeah. That's the truth. Anywho, save me from this. I, I literally could talk about soccer all night. This is the one sport that I get like this. And the... Not even the one sport. The one sporting event that I get like this about is the World Cup. I love it. So you've gotta, you gotta stop me or I'm not gonna, not gonna stop. Let  [00:14:54] Jesse Schwamb: it out.  [00:14:54] Hydration Tabs Recommendation [00:14:54] Jesse Schwamb: Well, I would say, like, we could play that game with our affirmations and denials where it's, like, six degrees of separation, but we only need one. And this is gonna sound like it was planned, but it wasn't. Your denial, of course, as you've just well articulated, was about hydration breaks. Turns out my affirmation is actually about hydration. So-  [00:15:11] Tony Arsenal: Jesse's affirming hydration breaks. We're about  [00:15:13] Jesse Schwamb: to fight. Yeah. No, I'm, I'm definitely not a- affirming hydration breaks, but this might be the kind of hydration they're having. I don't know, but it's the one I'm gonna recommend. So where I live, it is the summertime, and where I live, we get both the heat and the humidity, and that's the oppressive part, isn't it? It's where it feels like the inside of a dog's mouth. And so I actually just came back from a run, and my go-to hydration break for myself is, uh, Nuun, N-U-U-N. And here's the reason why, is I've had Gatorade, I've had all the... I've had Liquid IV, I've had all that stuff. Most of the time it's r- too sweet. Nuun is just these effervescent dissolvable tablets that you drop into water, and it creates this low sugar electrolyte drink. It has all, like, the normal stuff. It has sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, chloride, all that good stuff, but there's just one gram of sugar. And it's this convenient little tab. Like, you can just get this whole little roll of tabs. You can carry them with you if you're going hiking or you're camping or you're out and gonna do a run. You just drop them into a bottle of water or whatever size water you want. I usually go 32 ounces is the way I like it. They have all, all kinds of flavors. It's just the right thing. Like, it's... It is like the refreshing thing of water, but when you're like, "You know what? I wanna taste something that's not water." So Nuun is, like, the right thing. I may have referred to it before, so I'm sorry if I did. But I'm referring with you can order it on, like, Amazon or any kind of, I don't know, general kind of camping or sports-oriented store is probably gonna be there. But it's... For me, it's the right thing because I don't know about you, but I find most sports drinks, like, in general too sweet. Like, you, you start... You have one, and then if I get through it, I'm kind of like, "Ugh, now I feel like my mouth is, like, really just coated in sugar, and that's not what I wanted." Yeah. So this feels like you're, you're getting a little less sweetness, but you don't feel guilty afterwards like you've just consumed a bunch of sugar. I will admit, I drink one I guess it's like 12 ounce Gatorade every week, just one. And this is because there's a delightful and loving, like, 72-year-old woman in our congregation who brings, I believe it's her own, she invests this every week. She brings for the team that is doing the worship through music Gatorade, uh, because she thinks we need to be replenished. So really, we have a hydration break- ... right before the service. But she, it's so beautiful and so delightful, I will never refuse it, and I am also on often parched at the time. So-  [00:17:31] Tony Arsenal: Yeah ...  [00:17:31] Jesse Schwamb: it does work out, so.  [00:17:31] Tony Arsenal: Jesse's worship team goes real hard. They need to hydrate in the middle. They do a mandatory hydration break in the middle of the- It's, yeah middle of the service.  [00:17:39] Jesse Schwamb: It's mandatory. Yes. We are strict.  [00:17:41] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And it's an, it's a good time for announcements and commercial breaks. Um, yeah. I, I think, uh, and you're... I don't know if you're gonna believe me when I say this. With all of the Nuun that passes its way around the family home when we're all here- Yeah at summertime, I've never had-  [00:17:57] Jesse Schwamb: Oh, really? ...  [00:17:57] Tony Arsenal: Nuun. Yeah. We never tried it. I think our go-to for, for sort of powdered energy drink or powdered, uh, sports drink is little Propel packets.  [00:18:05] Jesse Schwamb: Um- Oh,  [00:18:05] Tony Arsenal: that's not bad either. Propel's not bad. I like Propel. It's very sweet, but it, it doesn't- Yeah ... um, Propel- doesn't add sugar. I think that they've, they've got their formula where it's a sugar-free formula. Um, but it is very sweet. So sometimes I'll only do, like, a half a packet of Propel- Yeah ... which I know kind of, they, they argue that or they, like, advertise as, like, "It's the perfect balance of electro-" I don't know if it's the perfect balance of electrolytes, but- Um, but some is better than none probably. Yeah. And, uh, Propel is not better than Nuun apparently, so.  [00:18:36] Jesse Schwamb: I, I, I think Nuun is, like, top shelf electrolyte. And you can get it, like I said, in lots of flavors. One of the fun things is you can get it caffeinated or uncaffeinated. I mean, most, most of it is uncaffeinated. But if you're like you wanted to have some, they have a what they call Kona Cola, and it is cola-flavored and has caffeine. It's amazing, because it's, like, just slightly effervescent, a little bit bubbly. Not too much. It's still, like, refreshing, but if you like the cola flavor, which as you know is its own distinct combination of elements and spices, then it's right on. So- Yeah ... it's really nice. So there you go. Yeah. Nuun- I- And if you're gonna take a hydration break because you're being forced to while you're playing soccer, I highly suggest you choose Nuun. That's the way to go.  [00:19:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what they're drinking. I think most of the time they're just drinking water.  [00:19:26] Jesse Schwamb: Probably.  [00:19:26] Tony Arsenal: So I, I don't... I mean, I, I think you're supposed to drink something with some electrolytes, so maybe they have some electrolyte-  [00:19:32] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah ...  [00:19:32] Tony Arsenal: water in it. I don't know.  [00:19:33] Jesse Schwamb: I don't know. Probably.  [00:19:34] Join the Telegram Group [00:19:34] Jesse Schwamb: Here's the thing. If you wanna tell us what you like to drink or when you are, let's say, serving the Lord's people by participating in worship through music and you're forced to take a hydration break, as I am at times, then you need to go to t.mereformedbrotherhood. Put that into your browser right now. Take a hydration break and put t.mereformedbrotherhood into your browser and that will send you to a link for Telegram, which is just a little chat app in which we have a small corner of the world. It's brothers and sisters listening to the podcast, interacting, and it's about time, actually, we probably had some kinda taste test stuff-  [00:20:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah with,  [00:20:12] Jesse Schwamb: like, these kinda hydration drinks. There's so many of them now. Some of them are, like, purposely salty. Some of them are really sweet. Some have all these crazy and wild flavors. Some of them have all kinds of caffeine. So let us know what you like, but best way to do that- Please ... is join the Telegram group. [00:20:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And please do not, uh, do not make your church stop their service for a hydration break. Please don't do that. The only hydration break I wanna hear you talking about in your church service is a baptism. So please-  [00:20:38] Jesse Schwamb: I knew that's  [00:20:38] Tony Arsenal: where you were going ... do not interrupt the Lord's day for a hydration break. Just if you need water, just, like, step out of the room, take a drink of water, come back. Or if you're in a church that lets you have water in the sanctuary, like most do, just take a drink. That's true. You don't have to- Yeah ... stand up. You don't need to have- That's good ... anyone interpret. Just take a quick drink and then be quiet. Just  [00:20:54] Jesse Schwamb: go to the sidelines, maybe sub out- Mm-hmm ... with somebody else who can play bass, and take a quick drink.  [00:21:00] Tony Arsenal: Exactly. Come back. Yeah. Or just dump the, dump the Propel powder straight in your mouth.  [00:21:05] Jesse Schwamb: I thought you were gonna say like have somebody come up, preferably like an elder, and just hose you down with a thing of Gatorade while you're, while you're  playing  [00:21:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, exactly. Just go up to the baptismal font, take a scoop of water, dump the Propel directly in the baptis- no, I'm just kidding. I shouldn't joke about that stuff. Yeah.  [00:21:19] Back to Matthew 25 [00:21:19] Tony Arsenal: Anyway, Jesse, I'm excited because although we are probably gonna round out this parable, we're not done with these parables because- Oh, yeah, that's  [00:21:28] Jesse Schwamb: right [00:21:28] Tony Arsenal: although we're gonna finish this parable this week, we'll probably finish it and get started talking about, uh, the next, the little chunk of text, which is not a parable, but we can't really, uh, divorce it from these parables 'cause they're all telling, they're all making the same or a very similar point about what the kingdom of heaven will be like in relation to the end times- Mm-hmm in relation to the eschatological, um, outcome of all things. Uh, and, and Christ in his teaching, um, he kind of rounds out this teaching and finalizes what these parables mean by talking to us about the sheep and the goats. Um, which again, is not really formed like a parable, but, uh, but it has very similar structures. It has some similar elements to it. Um, but it, it's so integral to what these, all what this sort of like, uh, anthology of eschatological parables mean in all the discourse. We really have to cover that to, to cover the others fully. But tonight we're gonna finish our discussion about the parable of the talents, which I'm excited about because I think we're gonna, we're gonna round out on some stuff that, um, I, I hope you've heard, uh, is probably not as, um, prominent as it should be. Uh, and this, we talked about last time that this parable has been, uh, not necessarily applied properly in many popular- Right ... teachings. Uh, and so I'm, I'm sure you've heard not so great interpretations. Hopefully we're gonna give you an interpretation that's a little bit more accurate and faithful to what the Bible teaches. [00:23:00] Reading the Parable Text [00:23:00] Jesse Schwamb: And so we're gonna pick it up in verse 24 of Matthew 25, because you'll probably recall, and if you haven't it's because you need to go back and listen, that we talked about the first two of these servants and the return that they were able to garner on the investment which the Lord gave them when He went away. And then there's the third dude. So we're gonna pick it up there and go all the way to the end of this, which allow us to close it out. So beginning verse 24, "And the one also had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you'd be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. And I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. See, have what is yours.' But the master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave. You knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed; therefore you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have at least received my money back with interest. Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has 10 talents. For to everyone who has more, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who does not have, even what he does not have,' excuse me, 'what he does have shall be taken away. And throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness. In that place, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"  [00:24:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:24:19] Textual Notes and Transition [00:24:19] Tony Arsenal: There, there's some, um, some textual things about this that I think, uh, we sh- should at least acknowledge. I don't know that we're gonna dig too deep into them. Um, it is very possible to, um, to read verse 30 Almost as an interpretive statement in itself rather than part of the, um, part of the parable itself. And, and so let me, let me see if I can, can parse that out. So if we read it as though it's part of the parable, then it is the s- the, the master in the parable who is saying, "And cast the worthless servant into the darkness; in the place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." I think that's the most natural reading, so I'll, I'll put my cards on the table that I think that we should read this as part of the parable itself. It's also possible linguistically and grammatically to sort of read this as an explanation, where Christ is now taking this principle of what has happened with the worthless servant, right? That even what he has will be taken away. And then, and then to sort of read this as a commentary that sort of, uh, like we saw before, um, kind of bridges this section with the next. So instead of reading, "And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness," uh, as though it were part of the parable, that it was this master within the parable saying this, we can read this as Christ saying that this is what will happen to those who are worthless servants. And then that follows up with, in verse 31, kind of h- connecting to when the Son of Man comes in His glory and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Before Him will be gathered all nations. Right. Th- this next sort of, like, more explicit, non-parabolical, um, uh, eschatological teaching. I think that former one is more natural, but just because it's, it's present in a lot of the commentaries that this is there, I wanted to at least call that out. I don't know that it makes a ton of difference in terms of how we understand the parable, but I do think, you know, part of what it means for us to wrestle through this is not just to take a particular position on the text, but to discuss, like, some of these ambiguities that are present. Um, and, and sometimes, um Sometimes I think we need to be cautious and really think through, because, uh, let me, let me rephrase it this way. None of the teaching in the Bible is sort of uninterpreted, untranslated, raw teaching of Christ. All of this is coming to us from the apostles retelling it, and yes, inspired by the Holy Spirit, so all of it's God's Word. But it's not as though, um, it's not as though Christ was first speaking in Greek. That's the big thing. But there are some places in the New Testament, in the Gospels, where it's not always clear whether a passage is Christ speaking or the, uh, the Gospel writer interpreting what Christ is speaking. This is one of those places where there's a little bit of a question mark about that. Um, again, I think the most natural reading is to read this as part of the statement of the master within the parable, but I did wanna just comment on that before we moved on much further.  [00:27:31] Buried Talent Scandal [00:27:31] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's helpful because I think we've gotta understand that end in light of how it's evolving. And we, we're starting with that stark contrast between the first two, which receive this great reward, which receive accolades and praise, and then you have this one talent servant's response is all about hiddenness. He just digs a hole, puts it in the ground, and hides it away. Which by the way, of course, we talked about this in the other parables, like in the ancient world, burying valuables was recognized as a form of safekeeping. I mean, I think even Josephus mentions that. We talk about the pearl of great price. There was something to be known for, well, I have this valuable thing. The best place for me to, the best place for me to put it so that it isn't compromised is in the ground, in a secret place. And there's like a surface level, I guess, reasonableness to that act. But what's interesting and where it comes in with that heat that you're kinda talking about, that ends up being in the end this grand statement of the eschatological, eschatological reality, is that the parable here with this one talent servant treats all that action as like complete catastrophic failure. And I, I think as much as I can understand it, it's because the master did not give him this talent to protect it from loss. He gave it to him for, to use it for gain And so the servant has mistaken the nature of that commission entirely. He substituted like the security-seeking for risk-taking faithfulness. And so I think that informs some of then what happens in these latter verses here, like when we get all the way down to 30. Because I think when we read that, we see the, like the redistribution as scandalous. But the scandal really is in this lack of actions. Like gifts exercised grow, but gifts buried, they just atrophy. So the one t- talent servant's talent is taken because he's, he's already been treated as n- as it was, was nothing. He's functionally like forfeited it by burying it. And so the transfer of the 10-talent servant is the formal confirmation of what his own choices had, had already produced. I think there is something there about like the eschatological reality, reality that will unfold in the judgment, which of course leads to, into the end of this chapter  [00:29:36] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right on that.  [00:29:39] Misreading The Master [00:29:39] Tony Arsenal: Um, what we see the problem with the one talent servant is not, um, not that he's not productive.  [00:29:49] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:29:49] Tony Arsenal: I mean, I think that's, that's actually the symptom of the illness, not the illness itself. What we see with the, the one talent servant is that he misunderstands his task, as you're pointing out, but more foundationally, he misunderstands his master, right? And that, that's really the, the main point of the parable when we kinda get... You know, Christ, um, when He's telling a parable, He explains the parable. Sometimes He doesn't explain the parable at all. He just sorta drops the parable and then moves on. Other times He will give the interpretation itself, like directly. We saw that in the parable of the, uh, of the soils or the parable of the sower. Um, and, and other times the kind of like the main explanation of the parable is, is actually embedded in the parable. And I think for this parable, the main explanation is when the, the one talent servant, uh, comes forward and he, when he's explaining why he did what he did-  [00:30:47] Jesse Schwamb: Right [00:30:48] Tony Arsenal: he says, "Well, I knew you were a," uh, let me just find it for sure here. He says, um, "I knew that you were a..." I just lost it. My brain is totally lost here. You ever have that happen where you're trying to find a word- Yes ... on a text and you just can't? He says, "Master," in verse 24, he says, "Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed. So I was afraid. I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours." There's a number of statements in here that just don't make any sense. Like, they're just... Like you said, a lot of these parables have kind of like a chump figure, where, like, he's sort of like the designated idiot of the parable. [00:31:31] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:31:32] Tony Arsenal: In this instance, there's so much wrong that it's almost hard to find something right. And, you know, he starts out, he says, "I knew you were a hard man." There's nothing in the parable, there's nothing that suggests that this is a hard man. There's nothing to suggest that. He, as we said last week, he trusts these servants with an almost unimaginable amount of wealth, right? He just leaves hundreds of years worth of wealth in the, in the, like... And it's not even like he's going off to war and he may never be coming back. He's just going on a journey.  [00:32:05] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:32:05] Tony Arsenal: He's just traveling for a little while, and he's like, "I'm gonna leave 100 years worth of labor with this guy and 40 years worth of labor with this guy and 20 years worth of labor with this guy." He, what, what, in what world is that a hard man who just blesses and trusts his servants with that amount of unimaginable wealth? But then he says, "I knew that you, uh, reaped where you did not sow and gathered where you scattered no seed." First of all, um, what kind of person accumulates this kind of wealth without reaping, uh, without the, like, a- apart from the principle of reaping and sowing and gathering and, and scattering? Like, he obviously is a very successful businessman. Um, the, the fact that this, uh, servant is couching this in agricultural terms, I think it's reasonable to think that this is a very successful landowner who has made good use of his land, has turned a profit Obviously he's reaping where he sows and he's gathering where he scattered or he wouldn't have this kind of money to throw around to leave with his servants in the first place. But the servant doesn't recognize that the fact that he was given one talent is in fact the master reaping or sowing and scattering the seed of these talents. So he's saying like, "Well, you reap where you have not sown," but the fact is like he was sown a full talent worth of resources and he, the, the master expected to reap what he had sown when he gets back. So this servant He's worthless and he's lazy, but he's also just kind of dumb in that he just doesn't- Right ... recognize the reality of what's going on. He has an incorrect understanding of who the master is. He thinks he's a hard man, when actually he's an incredibly trusting and generous master, right? The, the ESV masks this as servants. We're not talking about hired hands here. We're talking about slaves. Right. We're talking about h- probably about household slaves. This is doulos. These are the slaves that work in the fields, um, as opposed to, like, diakonos, which are the slaves that work in the house, right? These are, these are field servants. These are laborers that are indentured or are, are in servitude, and he gives them enough wages, enough labor, enough money, they could just take off and leave with it. They could buy their own freedom with this. Right. He trusts them with that. That's not a description of a hard man, a hard, lazy man who sows w- reaps where he doesn't sow and gathers where he doesn't scatter. So the primary issue here with this servant is not that he's lazy, although he is lazy. It's not that he's wicked. He is wicked. It's that he doesn't recognize who the master is. He doesn't understand who the master is and what is expected of him as a servant of that master, which I think, I think, as I've thought about this over the last week or so, I think that actually says everything about the eschatological import of this, right? Yes. Who is it that's not going to be saved in the last day?  [00:34:56] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:34:57] Tony Arsenal: It's the people who don't recognize the master. Right on. The people who think that the master is a hard man who reaps where he has not sown and gathers where he has not scattered. Well, if we think that's who God is, we have a lot of trouble coming our way. [00:35:10] Fearful False Theology [00:35:10] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that is the heart, right, of this dude's sin. It's a false theology of God that produces then this fearful inaction. Because, like you said, it's not just that he's been lazy. He has constructed this weird, distorted picture of his master, and then he allows that distortion to govern his behavior. So this, quote-unquote, "fear" is not like the fear of the Lord that is the beginning of wisdom, but it's this kind of craven dread that's rooted in a mischaracterization of the master's entire character. And one of the things that I think, among many, that's really great about the Reformed theological tradition is that it's always assisted, and I th- hopefully we along with it in our conversations, that, like, the right theology is not merely academic. It does shape the whole life, which is why, like, Calvin famously opens his institutes with this observation that the knowledge of God and the knowledge of self are bound together. So- Yeah ... a person who genuinely knows the living God as gracious, generous, long-suffering, with that kind of hesed kind of love, who is good- W- that person will be motivated to active, trusting faithfulness. A person who privately believes God to be harsh and demanding is always, I think, going to retreat in this fearful, minimal kind of minimum champion-type compliance. It's the same thing, I think I always think about this for some reason, and mention it a lot probably, but it's the same thing with Joseph's brothers finding all their money back in the sacks-  [00:36:31] Tony Arsenal: Yeah ...  [00:36:32] Jesse Schwamb: with their food. It's, like, in that instant moment, all they have is fear and dread. And it- for this guy, that's exactly what he has. But it doesn't start, like you're saying, merely because he realizes that he should have done more, or he's comparing his return with that of everybody else, or even that he's going back and taking a look at his own actions and finding them to be full of want or lack. In fact, he does a really good job, at least in his own mind, theologically justifying his behavior. So here, what he, the real crime, the real shame, the real sin is that somehow he views the master as harsh and demanding and exploitative. That's wild. But of course, that was the root of everything else, which I think does give us pause to reflect on our own lives, like I said, as we come to understanding how this parable reads us. [00:37:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:37:21] Red Letters And Commentary [00:37:21] Tony Arsenal: And, um- Part of the reason why I think it's important to understand what I was talking about earlier with, you know, the, the Gospels are an interesting sort of like composite document in that, yes, they contain the true sayings of Jesus, the true, true, um, words of Christ. But this is also, a- and I promise that this will loop back around, this is, um, this is important for us. The red letters are no more God's word than the black letters, right? Mm-hmm. And what I mean by that is, like, the, the so-called words of Christ in scripture are not more inspired or more profitable than the words that are the commentary of the apostles. And I only say so-called, and I'll explain why I say that. As I said, like, Matthew is translating, uh, he- first of all, he's recalling what Christ has said. He's, he's probably not, um, sitting there with a, with a quill and a, you know, a piece of paper or a piece of parchment- Right ... transcribing what's, what Christ is saying as he goes. Right? He's, he was there. Matthew was there. He's recalling what Christ has said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. He's making editorial decisions about what Christ taught in terms of like, what of Christ's teaching do I capture? What do I summarize? And I think there's ... It's important because every word is inspired, but also it's understandable. And what I mean here, and what, the reason I'm kind of belaboring that is I think there's an interesting thing that happens in verse 29. It says, "For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. And from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken." So this, this concept actually that, um, that verse 30 might be, uh, might actually be Matthew's commentary or even Christ's explanation of the parable, I think that actually, that actually expands to verse 29 in some of the commentators. So if we read it this way, and I think this, this may be valuable for us to at least ponder. If we read it this way, verse 27 is still the master in the parable space. It says, "Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him and give it to him who has 10 talents." There's a way of understanding this text, uh, and it's grammatically acceptable. I think theologically it doesn't change a lot, but it's worth us at least considering this. There's a way of reading this text where that's the end of the parable, and then Christ is explaining the parable, or Ma- or even maybe Matthew is commenting on the parable. It says, "For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance. But to the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away." Now, I think that, um, as I said, the most natural way to read this is that the parable proper ends with verse 30, that all of this is part of the parable, all of this is the master in the parable speaking. But I do think verses 29 and 30 take on a more explanatory, um, uh, explanatory role, and this is the main reason why. The, the one parable, one talent servant in the parable, he's not properly described as the one who has not, right? He had one talent. He was given one talent. Right. It's not as though he had zero talents. The one who has not, even what he has will be taken away, and the one who has, more will be given.  [00:41:01] Has And Has Not [00:41:01] Tony Arsenal: This is actually, I think, where we can go really sideways on this parable. I hear this parable often interpreted as sort of this understanding that, like, God has blessed His people with certain gifts, and we have to use our gifts in the kingdom to be productive, and people who use their gifts in productive fashion will be given more responsibility and more opportunities. People who don't use their gifts, whatever opportunities they have will be taken away from them. Now, I, I would argue that's probably true on a practical level, um, and that's just actually just true in general, right? Right. A person who has responsibility, th- think of, like, your working environment. M- you know, all, most of our listeners are not working in regular pastoral ministry. This is one of those areas where I think, actually, the corporate world is more representative of how things are. Um, in the corporate world, if you are given responsibility and you excel and use that responsibility well and you are a productive servant of your company that you work for, you're going to be given more responsibility, whether that's in the form of a promotion, which is the ideal circumstances, or whether that's just your responsibilities as assigned, a job description expanding without pay. Either way, if you do a good job, if you, if you take the sphere of influence, the sphere of responsibility that you're given and you do a good job and you shepherd that well and you steward that well, that sphere of influence, that sphere of responsibility will expand. Um- If you squander it and you sit in your office watching TikTok videos or listening to music and you don't use that, uh, responsibility well, that sphere of influence will shrink, and ultimately it will shrink until you no longer have a job, right? It works a little differently, I think, in, like, traditional pastoral roles, and I think there are some in our audience that, them, are in those roles that this may not fit. That's a good general principle. I don't think that's what this is teaching. Like, I don't think this, this parable is about, like, productive ministry opportunities. Right. And if it was, we wouldn't be talking about people who have none, have not, right? We would be talking about people who have less. We'd be talking about people who are given less responsibility. The person who has no responsibility is who's in view here. And that's why- Mm ... I think it actually, this is shifting, this ex- explanation, whether it's, uh, sort of like an explanation, an explanatory punchline to the parable that's part of the parable itself, or whether it's Jesus or Matthew commenting on the meaning of the parable. The difference between those two things is important for us to think about. It's not so important in terms of what the actual meaning is. Because the difference here is that what we've now done is we've shifted from the context of a financial grounded analogy in the parable to now a broader discussion about the fact that there are those who have, and there are those who have not. And the people who have will be given more, and the people who have not will be taken away from. And if we were talking strictly financially, then now we're, like, in, like, Occupy Wall Street, 1% kind of era. We're talking about salvation. We're talking about, um, we're talking about the fact that God gives salvation to some, and He does not give salvation to others. He gives grace to some, and He does not give grace to others. And to those who have grace, more grace will be given. To those who have not grace, more will be taken away. And the outcome of that- Is that the worthless servant who is the one who has not, the worthless servant will be cast into the outer darkness, right? This is a, an explanation of what it means to be a worthless servant who ultimately ends their time. Ends is not the right word. Who ultimately has the outcome of s- of outer darkness for all eternity. If this parable is just about how we use our giftings and our skills and our money for the kingdom, and we're expected to be productive and to, like, increase the kingdom through our tithing and through our, like our service, then this comment about, like, the outer darkness is really out of place. Unless, unless we earn our salvation by that. Which of course we know we don't.  [00:45:22] Jesse Schwamb: Right. Right.  [00:45:24] Wicked And Slothful Heart [00:45:24] Jesse Schwamb: Here's how I think everything you said is true, and the scripture actually bears this out because it was exactly where you're going with that, which is we're talking more about the identity. Like, what, what makes this servant or slave worthless? That's the critical question. And then if we understand that, it'll help inform how we then interpret this idea of sheeps and goats, which we'll get to in a whole other episode. But if you look at verses 26 and 27, where the master then responds to this slave calls him wicked and slothful, slothful, right? So that his, his basically lack of usefulness comes embedded or underneath those two terms. So one, obviously the wickedness here is moral. It's a failure to fulfill a covenantal obligation to the master, which we've been talking about. So again, it's not just about laziness. Like there's, there's so much more there. It's as if that's the entry point for the master to bring condemnation on him in two forms. One is that wickedness. The second is this idea of like slothfulness, which is dispen- I was gonna say dispensational, but what I meant to say is dispositional. So it's like, uh, like a subtle inertia of the will, and together they're describing a person, and I think this is a critical point. This is a person whose heart has never been genuinely aligned with the master's purposes. Now, when we understand it that way, I think, then everything that follows makes a lot more sense because it's not just about bad timing in the market. It's not just about being fearful that you're gonna lose money and you're risk-averse, so therefore you hid, hid everything. It's really this idea that this, this s- slave, this one talent slave, he was not on board, not vibing with, not aligned with, however you wanna say it, with the master's purposes from the very beginning. And there is maybe we might say like a minimum of faithfulness, even interest on the deposit that God requires. But the question of course is never am I doing what the five talent servant does, but it's always am I using what I have been given? And in this way, like are we finding ourselves aligned, that our hearts are leaning into, that we find ourselves tilting towards what God has for us, both understanding who He is and who we are in light of who He is. What I find interesting is I found some really unique commentary from the great puritan William Ames in his book Conscience, with the Power and Cases Thereof. That's a title that only a puritan could- ... forward, um, where he actually treats this failure. So getting again to the sense of like why is it so grievous? Like in other words, why does the action of this servant, which we've already kind of touched on, lead into basically a character attack on the servant, and why is the connection between those two things legitimate? What he basically says is that he treats the failure to use one's gifts as God has given as a violation of the ninth commandment, which is bearing false witness against God's own estimation of those gifts. So this slothful servant, by burying his talent, effectively says, "This is not worth using." That is like the thing that God has given me, who God is Himself, I reject fully and outright. So why would that person then not be cast into outer darkness in kind of keeping with both like the, the breadth and scope of this parable, but also essentially what it's teaching about who this last, you know, servant is? [00:48:33] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, and you know, as you say that, I think too, um- There's an element of this that is Because it ties to this servant's misunderstanding of the master, and then, a- and I think you're, you're bringing Calvin in here and, and sort of the idea that our knowledge of God and our kn- knowledge of self are so, like, intertwined that it- Right ... it's almost difficult to understand which comes first. Yes. Yes. Calvin concludes that the knowledge of God is logically prior, but he, he also acknowledges that, like, it's really tough to sort of like figure out which one is more logically prior. This servant starts from the understanding that the master is a wicked master, that he is an immoral, lazy master. I- and it's, it's ironic. It does- the text doesn't say this, but I think it's a reasonable extrapolation. Um, the, the wicked, slothful servant projects his own wickedness and his own slothfulness onto the master, right? He, he projects that the master is a wicked man, is a hard man, and also that he's lazy. He, he does- he reaps where he doesn't sow, he gathers where he doesn't scatter. And the action of the, of the, the character of the servant is not derived from his inaction. Right. It's his inaction that- Yes ... causes the, or it's his, his character- Character ... that drives his lack of action, right?  [00:50:12] Sheep Goats Identity [00:50:12] Tony Arsenal: The good and faithful servants, they're not, and this is where we're gonna come when we come next week. Like, this is where we're gonna go when we get to next week's. Just as maybe, like, I, I want you to listen next week, but you probably don't need to, 'cause I'm gonna give you the whole punchline here.  [00:50:27] Jesse Schwamb: Wow.  [00:50:27] Tony Arsenal: The sheep act like sheep because they're sheep.  [00:50:29] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:50:30] Tony Arsenal: They don't become sheep because they do sheep things. They do sheep things because they're sheep, and the goats do goat things because they're goats.  [00:50:37] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:50:37] Tony Arsenal: The wicked, lazy servant does wicked, lazy servant things because he's a wicked lady- lazy servant, right? He buries the talent in the ground because he's a wicked, lazy servant. The good, faithful servants j- just do what good, faithful servants do. They, they make a return on the master's talents because that's what they do, right? And I think where we have to be really careful and where, uh, the other pitfall that this parable can bring us to, and I kinda referenced it a little bit earlier, is there can be sort of this subtle works righteousness that creeps in, that we can believe if we're really good and productive for the kingdom, then that's what will earn us the good and faithful servant commendation when we, we cross into glory. The reality is there are those who cross into glory and hear good and faithful servant, right? There are those who will hear, "Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of your master." And there are those who will not. They will have what little they have taken away from them, and they will be cast into the outer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth, right? That's not a statement on what we've earned. It's a statement on who we are.  [00:51:48] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:51:49] Tony Arsenal: So you can either be the faithful servant who trusts the character of the Lord, who doesn't think Him to be a hard man, who reaps where He doesn't sow and gathers where He doesn't scatter. You can trust the master, and in the act of trusting the master and knowing His character, you just do what good, faithful servants do. You work hard, you follow the servant, the master's lead, and you produce a return on what is there. Right? In, a- and we didn't talk about this too much. In effect, these servants are reflecting the nature of the master.  [00:52:23] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:52:23] Tony Arsenal: Because you don't get to the point where you can leave 100 years worth of wealth to one servant, and 40 years worth of wealth to another servant, and 20 years worth of wealth to another servant if you have not yourself been a productive, faithful person who knows how to reap and sow appropriately, right? [00:52:42] Gospel Joy Or Darkness [00:52:42] Tony Arsenal: That is the key to this parable,

Re-releasing a Dental A-Team favorite… Ladies and gents, he's back. Dr. Dave Moghadam is again on the podcast, this time to talk with Kiera about quarterly team calibration. While there's no silver bullet A-to-Z cookbook for how to operate a practice, an outline certainly helps. Dr. Moghadam shares his outline for setting up the ideal quarterly calibration meeting: Start with the why (review practice's mission, vision, and values) Align over treatment, planning, and diagnosis Review what makes your practice stand out To keep things exciting each quarter, Kiera and Dr. Moghadam also chat about ways to shake up the meeting. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time.   on the Dental A Team podcast.   speaker-0 (00:32) and you guys, I am so jazzed to welcome back one of my favorite doctors, an office that we coach, and he just thinks outside the box.   This man is brilliant. He's grown a ton. I'm so proud of him. We've worked with him for quite a while. So welcome back to the show, Dr. Dave Moghadam. How are you?   speaker-1 (00:47) I'm doing wonderful Kiera. Thanks for having me. Super excited to be there.   speaker-0 (00:50) my gosh, absolutely. Well, when we were doing our last podcast, you were somebody that I just admire. One, you're a doctor. So you give a different perspective than I do. Two, you're brilliant. And three, you've got lots of cool topics that I'm excited to share. So I am Jazz. When we were on our last podcast, you came up with a few more. Today you just came up with another one. Guys, I will tease that one out. It's not today's podcast, but we will do it again. It's gonna be I T F U. So I hope you guys are excited for that.   I'm excited.   speaker-1 (01:17) That's the the closest I think I can get you to swearing.   speaker-0 (01:20) It   is the closest. but today we're gonna kind of dive into team quarterly calibration, which Dave, I will say, is probably one of my top doctors that thinks in systems, but not just thinks, actually executes. And you see massive growth and evolvement of your team. You were one of the offices who literally called me during COVID and said, Kiera, I'm gonna train my hygienist. What do you have on hygiene training? And I was like, Who are you? Fantastic. We have our hygiene training course. Like, here you go.   Try it out. We're beta testing right now anyway. But kind of let's take it away, Dave, on this team quarterly calibration because it's so needed. And I love that you've actually created a system around it that you've proven to be effective in your practices.   speaker-1 (01:59) Yeah, for sure. So I actually I I got the idea from another office that you work with that's in up upstate New York. Wonderful, amazing doctor. Really, I mean, really, really just drives home that aspect of really just thinking outside the box, having a crazy drive and really just executing. Really has a wonderful team in place there. Let's be real.   speaker-0 (02:20) He's   far away. Dave, you know he's far away. And I'm gonna say this like out loud because I know exactly who you're talking about. And I actually mentioned this to another doctor I was talking to today, and I said, let's be real. He's far away, and I visit him four times a year. Like we're talking opposite coast from me. And I said, and I truthfully do it because this man I think is such a brilliant leader, and I selfishly go to coach them to learn from him. So agreed, like just massive kudos want to bring this on. And you were mentioning he had a word document.   He's just brilliant and I'm so jazzed that you took some things that he did and spun it to your own. And I wanna point out, everybody listening, take what Dave's gonna share. He took it from somebody else. I don't think there's anything wrong in taking items, mimicking them, mirroring them, and recreating them for your practice. So please, please, please, like do exactly what Dave did. Take it and shout out to that office in New York. Thanks for paving the way for so many great ideas.   speaker-1 (03:14) Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think that's the best thing. I think when we all go ahead and, you know, take take ideas and expand on them and share them back and forth, you know, things really kind of get going. I'm always happy to, you know, help help out others in in the same way. But at the end of the day, I've tried to explain to people that I've shared, you know, a lot of my systems, my processes, my my things with is just because it's it good for me doesn't mean that it's gonna be good for you. You have to do the work, not because I want you to not, you know.   reap the the rewards of this, but because it it has to fit for your office and it has there needs to be some some ownership, some authorship from from your team and how things work as well. So I mean taking the concepts and expanding on them and making your own is gonna be the key in, you know, anything that we're gonna talk about today or just in in general, really.   speaker-0 (04:00) Totally agree. And Dave, you just drove home a really, really good point because I don't think that there actually is a plug and play. I don't think you go to the store, buy a system, come back to your practice and say, Okay, let's put it in, put the batteries in, read the instructions. I genuinely think, like you said, it's a concept, it's an idea that then needs to be transformed into your own practice. And I think so many offices get frustrated that they don't see momentum because they literally try to say, like, well, this is what Dave did. So take it, move it into my practice and hope that it goes on autopilot.   But they don't realize the countless hours you put in to making this work for your practice. So I love, love, love. And I hope all you guys heard that because I'll give you guys systems all day long on this podcast. It's what we do. We come to your practices and do it. Bottom line is there's a reason we don't have an A to Z cookbook as a consulting company. I don't believe it works. I believe you have to customize it to your practice to get momentum.   speaker-1 (04:49) You   can have an you can have an outline because even even even with making this, I mean, spoiler alert, like I made this, but then you know, six months later, a year later, like, you know what? Like, we should probably do this like this. It's a never ending, it's a never ending thing. It's just the way that things go. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it's it's one of those things as you you grow and you learn. And the other thing that we'll get to is as as your team becomes more comfortable and they start to go ahead and give   their input about things, that's when it really kind of, you know, starts to hit its straw.   speaker-0 (05:20) Right, right. I agree. So we've teased it up enough, guys. So we've got this awesome team quarterly calibration. So Dave, kinda take it away again, and like you said, this is this is as of today, but I promise you, give Dave six months to a year and it will look it will look different. It will be fine tuned again. so I'm excited. Take us away.   speaker-1 (05:40) Yeah, so I I think the first thing is like ever every office, you know, in starting to create, you know, why you're there, what you're doing, all that stuff. In in one way or another, you sit down and you and you figure out your mission, your vision, your core values, like all these key concepts in, you know, any business. And that was something that we did really early on, as I was actually five, five years ago, probably right about now when this podcast is gonna air. first thing I did is I sat down and we kind of all talked together about what   What are we going to do? Why are we going to do it? You know, why are we here? So kind of reviewing those key concepts. And we we kind of cycle through, you know, reviewing those things on a weekly basis, but it's a good time to kind of highlight that in the beginning. of like, well, why are we here? What are we actually trying to do? Why are we going to make the decisions that we make on a daily basis? So that's the first thing. The other thing is like, well, what are the practice philosophies? Like, how are we going to treat and plan? Why are we doing things in that way? You know, this kind of stems off of that. And then   you know, we move towards, you know, in discussing things with patients, what's the way we're going to do that? You know, so the key concepts I always kind of bring out is, you know, what do we see? You know, what's going to happen if it's if it's not treated? What are the best options that, you know, you we can give somebody? And, you know, why is that better than other options? You know, so these are always the key points that I I want in the back of, you know, our team's mind when we we're talking about situations and things that we see.   And then other than that, I mean, I think it's two other big, big topics here. You know, what conditions, you know, are we going to encounter? And you know, how are we going to discuss those things and what is treatment planning generally like? And then what makes our office special? You know, really highlighting those things, like talking about these concepts. So this is, even though it was only a few minutes that I just went through that, if we're going to really go through everything in detail here, I mean that's a it's it's a couple hours. and   I mean, the point I'll I'll I'll get to here is, you know, maybe the first, second, third time, great, but at the end of the day, sometimes it becomes a lot. So you have to kinda eventually figure out ways, well, how are we going to mix things up? Because if you're lucky enough to continue to have the same team there for a long time, you're all gonna be sitting there twiddling your thumbs, being like, Okay, like I get it, but you know what's going on.   speaker-0 (07:46) Yeah, no, you're exactly right. And I think that that's why a lot of people love us because we'll bring in and shake things up and add some excitement. Cause you're right, it can get monotonous and tedious. But that doesn't mean because it becomes monotonous and tedious that we shouldn't continue to do it. Just change how we're doing it, look for ways to innovate it, and make it even better. So if I broke that down, Dave, it sounds like we start with kind of the why. Why are we doing this? What are our core values? Let's assess that, make sure those are aligned because that's gonna be the   the launch pad, if you will, to the next level. Then it sounds like it was treatment, planning, how we're diagnosing things, making sure that's all aligned. And then the third piece would be on what makes us special, what makes us different, what's our wow factor, if you will. And those are kind of the three points. And please feel free to add in any gaps that I left out because I don't know your outline. So I'm I'm learning right along with the listeners, right?   speaker-1 (08:35) Yeah.   So I mean that that's the basics of it. The one thing that's kind of like a little bit misleading is like with the treatment plan and stuff like that. Like what I've done is kind of gone and I've gone off of that that doctor's kind of like general template and added more is like condition by condition. You know, so maybe like 10, 15, you know, things that you wanna list out. And you don't have to you're never gonna hit everything. You know, so you want to kind of get, you know, 80% of what we're you know, what are gonna encounter on a daily basis?   And I think the way to really think about this is the the concept that you guys really drive home very well is what would doctor do? Yep. That's kind of like this is like that on steroids. The problem is when you do that like this much, at a certain point it becomes kind of like hiring. So I think it's nice. We now we kind of quickly will go through some of this as a review, but I think a way that we could probably improve more is if let's say, you know, once a month or so I kind of just did a smattering of, you know, some examples like that to kind of just really freshen things up.   And a lot of times, you know, some of these things are like, yeah, these are the cool things that we're doing. But a lot of the pictures, a lot of the things that I share in this section is kind of like, hey, we thought it was going be like this, but guess what? It's like a bomb went off. Because I think it's very hard for somebody who's not, you know, in the the trenches in a sense, with a lot of these situations to really understand the extent which is actually helpful. Cause rather than, you know, let's say in in the the hygiene room, like   You know, when we're treatment planning, telling the patient, no problem, it's not going to be a big deal. We kind of say, you know, this is what it looks like in certain situations. We've seen things become like this, just you know, you know, so setting up that kind of worst case scenario, and that's like one of our and when we talk about like the philosophies that we talked about in the beginning, it's underpromise and over-delivered. Right. You know, we always want to talk about worst case scenario. We want to talk about the fact that, you know, in situations where we think that, you know,   further treatment like a root canal may be necessary. But that's that's a discussion even before an appointment is scheduled. Mm-hmm. That all has to be there. You know, it's nice to to to be positive and everything, but it's not nice when you you do that and then it's a it's a mess later.   speaker-0 (10:36) No, you're exactly right. And I, you know, my mind obviously went into system mode as you were talking. And I'm like, Dave, I got this great idea. take all your conditions and things that you look at, make them into twelve of them. Then every month on your quick check-in calibrations, you could have all twelve of those. So throughout the year you go through them and then each quarter you highlight maybe the three things you've gone over. That was my instant like, hey, this is how you could like keep it on a system on a regime.   or bring case studies every quarter that that you then would take because they've already learned for three months, then six months and n nine months and twelve months. but I I'm curious and I want to dive into the kind of nitty gritty of it. How do you set up these quarterly calibrations? Because I'm hearing like we want to talk about it, like you mentioned, like this treatment planning. It should be a discussion. but I also have watched and I know myself, I can sit and listen all day long.   But then when I'm asked to repeat or I'm asked to implement or I'm asked to talk about it, I go back to what I know. Even though I just heard it, I might catch one or two phrases. So do you role play it out? Is it more of a like C discussion and we all discuss how we're going to discuss like kind of walk me through what and do you do you block it out for a full day? Is this a one hour over lunch? Like, how does this kind of kind of look? I feel like I've got a general like outline of it, but then how do you actually execute on this?   speaker-1 (11:57) Yeah, so we'll so we'll we'll block out a a a couple hours, two or three hours, depending on you know the situation. Well, we and I've tried you know a bunch of different ways as far as like a lot of the things that you mentioned. I think the things that are that are most effective and most effective in general, which you know I used to do more so in the beginning, not so much right now, is really just kind of randomly like calling on people and kind of being like, Okay, like let's like this is the situation, like let's kind of talk it out. And it's a little uncomfortable at first, but it kind of, you know.   makes it really gets somebody involved in it. Now what I would do early on is kind of like pretend like you're you're the doctor. But what I've done to kind of mix it up a lot of times is kind of getting a couple of people involved where it's what it's fine. It's whatever their role is in the office, let's say in this situation, you know, sometimes we'll do that or we'll mix it up, but we try and go through the the different stages of let's say, you know, we found this as an emergency patient, let's say.   Yep. So you're gonna be the assistant, you're gonna be the doctor, and then you're gonna be the the front office person. You know what I'm saying? And kinda, you know, go through that step by step. So we can kind of work on the the workflow, like you know, the the basically the the timeline a patient would go would go through the office and everything in in that. So that is work well. Honestly, like as as I've done this longer and longer, sometimes it's just kinda like   It's like going through the motions and it's just kind of like, okay, you guys know this, let's go through this. And that really hasn't been so effective. So sometimes I'll kind of take a pause and I'll just even, you know, hop on you know, open dental and you know, think of like, okay, who have I seen like lately where this isn't just open up like the x-rays and kind of do examples like that. I think that's been a little bit more helpful. The hard thing is, I mean, it's you know, we're all busy. It takes a lot of time to try and go ahead and do all this stuff. But I think if I was able to get a little bit more   regimented in in mixing it up. But for the purposes of, you know, everybody listening, I think if you get a good, you know, outline together, you get things together, you know, this will afford you, you know, the ability to do this at least a couple of times and still be really effective. I blew the first handful of times I did it, even though it's like the same kind of thing, it's helpful and you you mix in some other stuff, but then it becomes kind of stale after a while. So you want to make sure you're bringing new examples or shaking things up or, you know, just kinda everybody kind of knows like, okay, yeah, we're gonna   calling you you randomly pay pay attention.   speaker-0 (14:14) Right. No, I love that. And it's funny that you said that because that's actually my trick in offices. People are always impressed that Kiera Dent can learn names very quickly in a practice. And I'm like, guys, the bottom line is the only reason, not the only, but one of the main driving reasons I learn names as soon as I go into a practice is one, people tend to like me a lot more if I remember their name. Two, I believe that if I'm gonna ask them to do something, I should at least know their name. And three is when I get to team meeting, you better believe I'm going to impress everyone and dazzle that I know your whole names.   But then I'm going to randomly call on every person and they're like, she now knows my name. So I think it's really wise. I was also thinking, Dave, it's fun to to hear your ideas and then also flip into consultant care mode too. And I'm like, gosh, like let's just take this and expand on it. some fun things for that excitement that making sure everyone's on their toes is you can actually like have them draw straws. So like here's the case study, everybody draws straws, and it's a doctor, it's a hygienist, it's a treatment coordinator and an assistant.   So they all have to draw straws and so it will if there's a natural excitement and terror and adrenaline rush real quick of here's the scenario, we're gonna role play this all the way through, draw straws of who's going to be who on this scenario. So then it's a constant shakeup. I also love the surprise and delight of asking people on the fly. But I really also love like and I was thinking like some way you could make this pretty simple for you quarterly is if you know that there's a a patient that that   you're working on that you're like, this would be a great example. Maybe have your assistant mark that appointment in red or something. So that way you are pulling those constantly, which I'm sure you're doing, but thinking of offices of like, how could you be building this up for the next month or two? Just highlight some appointments, bring those to the table, or I'll be honest, I just did a what would doctor do with a a practice the other day. ironically it's actually the same office we were talking about earlier. Funny, funny coincidence there.   But I just pulled up some FMXs on Google. Reason I did that was because sometimes if we know the patient, people get weird and they say, but that was Kiera and she's got a funny bite. And they have a thousand excuses versus just a FMX or just intraoral pictures maybe can help them see it. So Dave, it sounds like you guys I I love also hearing it's two to three hours, so that's helpful to know. Probably a couple case studies. Love the idea of different people role playing out different parts of that procedure.   And I will say   speaker-1 (16:34) Remember the so we didn't do straws when you kind of taught us this concept. Do you remember what we did?   speaker-0 (16:40) I I think I just like put like name tags on people. I don't I don't remember exactly   speaker-1 (16:45) So you got you ran out to what was it? Like I don't know, Michaels like some kind of Yeah. So we did that we did that one time too. I found them on Amazon and I got just to just to kind of mix things up. we basically got snowballs and you know, you people would kind of toss to the next person in the the line of the the patient experience. Yeah. Sometimes you just gotta do stuff like that to to to mix it up because otherwise, you know.   speaker-0 (16:51) Was it the snowballs? Yes.   Yeah, right.   speaker-1 (17:13) To sit there for more than like half an hour, yeah, everybody's either gonna fall asleep or you know, bang their heads against the wall.   speaker-0 (17:20) And I also think it's important, like another way I remember when I was in practice as an office manager, I got real sick of having to create all these because it like you said, it's a lot of time. But also if I'm always the teacher, how can I test my team's knowledge base? So also flipping the role and having some of them come of like, hey, here's here is the the piece of the treatment plan that we want to go through. So maybe it's root canals, maybe it's crowns, maybe it's implants, maybe it's on period.   And have somebody come with how they explain it to to also double check their knowledge base. So like set them up. Like you're gonna be presenting on this part, you're gonna be teaching this part. I think is also a really fun way to shake it up. But those snowballs, that was funny. It just happened to be what we found at the store. But guys, if you ever want a snowball that actually feels like a snowball, they're pretty it was actually pretty fun. I I do remember that actually.   speaker-1 (18:10) Pretty good. The ones that I found, not not so great.   speaker-0 (18:12) I think I actually found them, if you wanna know. Go scope in in Christmas time, holiday time. I think it was like Walgreens or like I think that that 'cause I had to just run to the store real fast and I was like, these look great. but I love that, Dave. I love that you're getting your team to I think the big piece that I'm hoping offices are taking away from this is there's consistency in calibration. And you have a set time. So every quarter   you know you're going to calibrate on some topic. We've got the why, why are we doing this? We've got the whole treatment plan and the procedures that we do in the practice, role-playing that out from start to finish. And then also you're doing the what makes us special. I really think that that cadence is brilliant. Even though it might feel routine and mundane, I might guess what working out is routine and mundane. But the long term effects of it when done consistently are health.   and wealth and growth and drive. And so yes, you've got to shake it up. Everybody gets into that workout like suck and it just becomes very boring and you don't want to go work out anymore. So you shake it up, you come up with new routines, you find different trainers, you find different ways to do it. But at the end of the day, you're still working out. Just like here at the end of the day, you're still calibrating. You're still training. So how does your team feel about this, Dave? Like do they, do they look forward to it? Do they say like, calibration? Like how does it tend to go?   That's my first question, then I've got a follow up to that one.   speaker-1 (19:32) Yeah, I don't know. I think I think it's hard to say. I think it's it's it's a mixed bag in a sense. You know, some people have been with me for a really   know a a lot at times with with stuff like that. I think it's nice to to kind of you know break up the schedule a little bit though because a lot of you know we do have our our weekly meetings, but still, you know, they're they're pretty short now. you know, given that we're not like we used to like eat while we were doing it. Now we kind of you know break that up, you know, based on our our protocols and everything like that. So it's like the shorter meetings. But it's nice to have a little bit more time in my mind then. but the other thing too that I that I wanted to to mention   is I think the way that I that look at things is is a is a little bit different now. So I think it makes it a little bit less in intimidating. I think when I kind of first started out with this, it was very much like, this is the script, like you gotta say it exactly like this. And I realized that that's insane, for lack of a better terms, because really at the at the end of the day, like the important thing in my mind is like the the the key concepts are there, that the points are coming across the right way, but it has to sound like Pira.   Right. You know what I'm saying? It has to sound like Dave. It has to sound like like an actual person. Like if it sounds like it just like a script, that like that defeats the purpose. The point of kind of us doing that is to have some uniformity in the concepts that are that are coming about. And so it builds trust with the patients. But if something sounds   phony, that's the opposite of it. So I've kind of gotten away from a little bit more of like you need to say this exact word like this to kind of like, you know, these these are like the concepts. And if somebody says things in like a way where it doesn't kind of, you know, do that, it's kind of like, hey, that that's great. Maybe, you know, this is like the point we're trying to get across, you know, next time try it like like this a little bit. but you know you you'd be surprised, just like with a lot of this stuff, you know, sometimes, you know, it really comes across super well the way somebody says something and it's completely   Unlike what we have written down, but it's the same idea. It just sounds like them.   speaker-0 (21:26) Totally. And I'm so glad you brought that up because again, I'm gonna tie back to why I don't believe in an A to Z cookbook. I believe in systems and processes, but I also believe in in change. Because yesterday I was interviewing a new consultant for Dental A Team and on our collection call protocol, she almost had the exact same style that we did. But she literally said, we we do a kind call. So we call the patient in a kind way. And I was like, my gosh, that's brilliant, because it just gave this whole new feel.   To a collections call versus like, I'm calling to collect money, and she called it a kind call. So to your point, you can actually find better verbiages, better ways when people do it their own way. But also don't be afraid to tell people if it comes across different because we don't hear ourselves. Dave, you're hearing me. I I can think and assume of how it's landing, but you're the one who's ultimately experiencing my words coming out. And so giving people feedback, some some some   I giggle because I've got some team members and like Kiera, I said it just like you, and I'm like, No. What I said was this. What you said is like that they're stupid and they're incompetent. Like that's how it came across. But they don't realize it. So I've even had certain team members record themselves. and then in a loving way, a very safe space where it's not judgmental, like playing it back. So sometimes even one on one, because that way they can actually hear themselves. So maybe even after calibration, you could spice it up this time, Dave, if you want.   have them role play these things and then have each person at least record themselves one time. you can have voice memos on your phone and have them actually listen back to see how it sounds because oftentimes like Dave, you and I actually chatted about how it sounded when you heard your podcast played back. You were like, I sound a lot different. I said, for my first like hundred and fifty, two hundred podcasts, I felt awkward. I still feel awkward, but it's becoming more normal. But we don't hear ourselves as much. So I think like that's also a piece to it of like   Giving people that autonomy, also some things of having them record themselves, I think can help because then it also helps show knowledge base. And selfishly, I'm also always thinking of systems that actually create a training bank for future employees because you've actually got great verbiage, great examples that you can plug in under those certain topics that future hires could actually hear. You could create a really awesome training bank that way as well.   speaker-1 (23:42) Yeah, I know for sure. That's one   speaker-0 (23:43) So fun. Dave, I love it. So guys, I would say try it out. Try Dave's model. but I I'm gonna ask real quick, give us like a quick synopsis of like going through the why. Like we dove a lot into the treatment, how to have the role play, all of that. How like what's that why part? Like, does that is it just like a quick quick synopsis of you kind of reinstating the vision, the core values, reminding people why we're here.   speaker-1 (24:05) Let me see. Hold on. Okay. So as far as as the why, I mean, we talked about mission, vision, core values, and we get to the philosophies of the practice. So the first thing is, you know, I we want to break down like what's what's our mission? So in our in our office, our mission is to exceed our patients' expectations. So, you know, what we've kind of talked about, well, what does that mean? You know, like how are we going to do that? We want to provide.   compassionate and practical dental care. That's the second part. So like what does that mean to everybody? We want to provide outstanding customer service. So once again, like, you know, what does that mean? How do we interact? Are we providing information up front? Are we staying on time and respecting people's time? What many amenities we're providing, you know, how are we doing follow-up? You know, all these things. And a lot of this is like, you know, we have it written out, but it's a little bit more of a discussion. And then the other thing too, our the last part of our our mission at our office is remaining at the forefront   Clinical advancement. So that's one of those things where when we first made this up, that was a big lie. I mean, everything was like analog paper, whatever. But you know, the then about, you know, a few months in, I got the itch and decided to to make some questionable financial decisions and just you know, go all in on everything because that's the way that I wanted to practice. So   speaker-0 (25:23) Yeah. I I   actually love that you broke that down. I love that you because sometimes as leaders when we build these visions, what we're envisioning is different than what our team actually does. So I love that you break it down like what does excellent customer service actually look like, feel like, what's the experience? Because then it becomes more tangible versus just words on a paper.   speaker-1 (25:42) Yeah. So that's that's the first chunk. The second chunk was what we talked about underpromise and overdeliver. You know, I think that's that's a big part of it. The third thing is what we kind of talked about of like, you know, how uniformity, you know, builds and maintains trust. And so there's that fine line of like, yeah, we want it to sound similar, but also not like it's cookie cutter and bake. Right. And then, you know, a couple other things. Like, I think pictures really helps or you know, pictures worth a thousand words. We want to take good pictures of what   we see so we can help explain something really well. And then the last chunk really is, you know, there are different types of of treatment. So there's stuff that's, you know, very important, more emergent, there's stuff that's preventative. And then, you know, the more elective, you know, cosmetic category of things. So we kind of talk about that. And that helps us, you know, figure out how do we want to, you know, prioritize everything. Sure. So that that's that's the the first big thing. And we dive into all that, you know, before we go into like the well how   speaker-0 (26:39) Yes. Which I actually think is really important. I'm I'm big on sequence matters and I love that you first go through who are we as a practice. Let's kind of give some tangibles on it because that actually can spur people to think differently of how they would explain treatment or explain how they're gonna talk to a patient on certain things, which I really, really love that you did that. So now looping all the way to the end, Dave, you said you also talk about what makes us special. So what does that look like on this calibration piece for you?   speaker-1 (27:05) So so basically this was another exercise we did at at some point. It was not one of the I didn't feel like if I just kind of sat there and I told people like, yeah, like this is why we're great, like that's that would be a big waste. Yeah. So I really we kind of we kind of sat down there and I said, like, let's just like get into it and you know, just call on everybody and say, Well, what do you think makes us stand out? You know, and we kind of just went through and and kind of really, you know.   speaker-0 (27:18) Sure.   speaker-1 (27:31) put together well, you know, what r what really sets us apart is as as an office. What are the things that we we try and do, you know? And as aside from that, even just some of the the basic stuff that a lot of offices have, even, but we want to make sure that we we're, you know, mentioning like, you know, like membership plan in in your office. Or if you do anything like, you know, like we do something that a lot of people do, like a whitening for life thing where it's basically they pay once and as long as they're coming regularly, you know, here you go. Right. You know, stuff like that. Just kind of like little things that, you know,   patients may may ask anybody in the office and be yeah, I don't know what that is. Like that that would be very like that would be not good.   speaker-0 (28:07) Yeah, absolutely. Well, because it's one of those things it's always funny. Offices, I I giggle a lot when offices tell me, Yeah, Kiera, I don't know what to do. Our patients, like, we do Invisalign in our practice, but they're still going to someone else. And I'm like, Because your patient doesn't know. Like, if they don't know all these things that you guys do, they will go somewhere else. They think you do their cleanings and you do their fillings. They don't realize that you do implants and ortho and sedation and Botox and all these other things. So I love that you   constantly remind your team of what makes your office special because in doing so, that's then what they're going to translate to the patients. It's like, I I heard a great quote that said, repetition is the mother of skill. And I love that because we can talk about it one time, but if we're constantly repeating it, like why do we get so good at our morning routines? Well, because we repeat it every single day, to where it's it's second nature for us. We don't even have to think about it. So I really love that you   You dive through the whole practice in a quick two to three hour thing. I love that it doesn't take all day. I love that it breaks out and shakes it up pre-scheduled out because this calibration is paramount. And I'm like, shoot, Dave, I'm like, I'm gonna go back and listen to this podcast. I'm gonna write these things down because I was thinking of consultant calibration. I have one once a month, but we don't go through the nitty-gritties of everything as consultant teams. And I've been watching as I've been doing client check-ins, that each consultant kind of has their own variance from office to office.   If we could start to bring those in, hear what the other people are saying, how they're saying it, similar to doctors, if doctors could hear how different doctors are diagnosing different ways that they're explaining treatment, it helps elevate your entire practice and patient experience. And I think at the end of the day, that's what this ultimately is all about. Because if your patient experience is awesome, coming from an awesome team experience, the whole practice is just going to elevate and everyone's going to feel much happier, less stressed and all around great. Cool.   speaker-1 (29:56) Yeah.   So I you know, all this stuff is is helpful. I mean the the the take home message is if it can't it can't get stale. So it always requires time and effort to to try and mix it up. And that's always hard to be able to do. But you know, you you you do what you can and and really at the end of the day, I mean, you know, the more you can do with this stuff, the better. The other thing that you were you were talking about, how our patients don't really know what we do and everything like that. I mean, I can't I can't preach that enough.   I mean, I think there are things that we can do way better to do that. simple thing that we did is we for a long time had like spear education videos looping in our waiting area. and it just really opened my eyes to the fact like sometimes like patient would come in and be like, I saw that video about that. Let's do that. my god, like this is like this is amazing, you know. So what we're what I'm working on right now is   We try and put together basically like a little little slideshow in the background that part of it will be kind of things as far as you know, some of the clinical things that we do. Part of it'll be like, you know, getting to know team members better. So like little fun facts, things like that, you know, other things that just like you know, somebody may see in the background and find interesting, you know, kind of like a little subliminal in a sense, but we want to try and find a balance where it's not like so in your face. But the important thing there is really.   People see this and they may not necessarily, you know, need the, you know, the the treatment or have the conditions that they see on the screen. But, you know, husband, wife, you know, mother, daughter, you know, who knows? And they may say, Hey, you know what? I saw this at at you know, my dentist, and the way that they do this looks pretty amazing. I've never like seen or heard of anything like that when they, you know, it seems like it was so much more involved. So that's that's a little project we have working on.   And it's a little project that I personally am not dealing with, which I'm very, very happy about. So we're slowly, slowly getting everybody to help.   speaker-0 (31:48) That's awesome. Well, and like you said, I think it's just an awareness piece. I think the more your patients can see it because the guys, I don't I don't need implants. Thankfully. my teeth are really straight. I hate my ding dang lateral number ten. If somebody wants to, you know, take me on as a patient, it just needs a quick rotation. That's all I need. but nobody ever asks me about it. But the   And Dave, I'm sure on Zoom right now is like looking in, like, here, let me see your tooth. but the bottom line is like it's an awareness piece, just because I don't need it as a patient. I am connected to a lot of friends and family. So if I hear it at work or I hear it with my family and they're like, I need somebody to do ortho. I'm like, my dentist does that. So again, it's just an awareness piece for your patients. So, Dave, so many pieces you pulled in here. I love going through the why, actually going through the pieces of your practice.   Then going into the tangibles of clinical, having case studies, examples, having people role play it out on different positions, and then going into what makes us special and reminding our practice of the things that we do offer. So it's a constant awareness and I love that you have this on a quarterly cadence. I think for all offices, I don't care how you do this, if it's once a year, if it's every four every three months, so four times a year, if you do it twice a year at retreats. I don't care, but I would strongly suggest each of you at least try to get this in. We're ending the year out. So I would say   At least w at a minimum one calibration. I would strongly suggest that four because again, repetition is the mother of skill that can really help out. So Dave, as always, brilliant podcast. Love learning from you. Love hearing the great things you're doing. It's been fun to watch you evolve as as a leader and as an owner and as a clinician over the years that I've known you. So thank you again for your time today. It was it was just awesome. I loved it.   Kiera Dent (33:24) Dental A Team listeners, I hope you loved revisiting this episode as much as I did. I hope that you found the nuggets, the pearls. You can see why we re-released this one because I truly want you to take away the best of the best of the best of the best. This episode truly hopefully sparked some new excitement, gave you some new ideas. I know sometimes when I go back and I look back on things that I've learned in the past, I'm able to re-implement because like that famous quote says, no man steps into the same river twice because neither he is the same man.   nor is the river the same. You are not the same as you were before, nor is your practice the same as it was before. Different things, different ideas, same principles. And I really want to highlight and hopefully you took today that sometimes all we need to do is simplify and put into place or to refine things that we've already been doing really, really well. If you love this episode, don't keep it to yourself, share it with a colleague or leave us a review and help more practices find the Dental A Team podcast. As always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

You're using AI to handle more of the work that your team used to do. That’s exactly why the human side of the business has become a competitive advantage. In this episode, Chip and Gini make the case that as AI slop floods everyone’s inbox and feeds, the bar for genuine human interaction has dropped so low that clearing it will make you stand out. Demonstrating real experience and expertise in conversation — not just in content — is where agencies will win. That starts with having actual conversations. Chip argues that meetings have become more valuable, not less, because you can’t fake a real-time interaction the way you can a written deliverable. And Gini adds that it extends to one-on-one meetings with your team, which can be used to get the specific decisions needed from you. Written content is increasingly hard to trust, and Chip admits even he can’t reliably tell his own writing from AI output. Video helps close that gap for now. So does the handwritten note, which Chip still sends to podcast guests when he can track down an address. He jokes that the illegibility is proof of authenticity. In person beats everything. Chip pushes agency owners to budget for it deliberately, with clients, prospects, and remote team members alike. Gini mentions the Augusta Rule as one way to offset some of those costs, though both are quick to say talk to your accountant before you try to benefit from it. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “In the age of AI, meetings are even more valuable than they were before because you can’t fake this kind of interaction.” Gini Dietrich: “The more time you can spend with a client or with a prospect really understanding their business, the way that they operate day to day, their pain points — those are the kinds of conversations that are gonna make you smarter.” Chip Griffin: “When you hit that inevitable rough patch somewhere down the road, and we all hit rough patches with our clients at one point or another, it gives you that oftentimes reservoir of goodwill that you can draw on because you made that human connection.” Gini Dietrich: “My day-to-day contact there became one of my closest friends. She’s one of my closest friends today, even though we haven’t worked together in 20 years, and the reason being is that we got together in person all the time.” View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I think we’re, we’re people people. We’re- Gini Dietrich: We’re people people? Chip Griffin: I’m a people person, so that make us people people. People- People … people. We’ll just keep saying the word people. But in all seriousness, the age of AI, everything seems to be impersonal, so that opens the door to be more friendly to actual people, to be more personable. And so I think we can talk about how we can set ourselves apart as agencies, as leaders in this age where the tech seems to do almost everything for us. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. You know, it’s funny that this conversation is happening right now because I’m coming to this conversation straight from our bimonthly learning session internally. And one of the things that we talked about today was, you know, how to use AI, our critical thinking skills, but also how to use questioning and probing with it- new business prospects and with clients to be able to uncover the real problems of what they’re, the real pain points of what they’re facing versus just the surface level, “I have a measurement problem,” kinds of things. And it’s, it’s definitely not something that you can rely on AI for. You have to actually use your people skills to be able to do that kind of work, and that’s what we spent about an hour going through internally today. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, there’s, there’s so many more opportunities now to leverage the human connection piece with your clients, with your prospects, with your team because so much of what they’re seeing is AI slop. Is technology-driven. And, and whether that’s the pitches that we get in our inbox, and you sit there and you’re like, “I know AI generated this and sent it to me,” and all that. And so trying to find ways where you can break through and make a human relatable interaction with somebody and provide real human insight in those conversations gives you the opportunity to do things that, you know, a couple years ago nobody would’ve paid attention. Now they do. Gini Dietrich: Right. Right. Yeah. You know, one of the things I always talk about is, especially with content, and I think this applies here as well, is demonstrating your experience and expertise because nobody else can do that. And I think if, as you’re thinking about those human relations and the people skills and actually interacting with actual human beings, where you can demonstrate experience and expertise is really what’s going to set you apart in all of those conversations. Because nobody else has your experience or expertise. You know, they may have some of the similar experience, and they may have similar expertise, but nobody does it exactly the same way that you do. And I think being able to demonstrate that in your conversations is where you will win every time. Chip Griffin: Well, I think the key is having actual conversations. Gini Dietrich: Fair. Start there. Chip Griffin: I was talking with a leader today who said, “Look, I just, I don’t even have time to read half the stuff that comes in, even from my direct reports. And so for me, the best way to interact with all of my direct reports is through actual conversations, either in person or by video call because that’s, that’s the only way I have an opportunity to focus on it.” And so, you know, I, I know that we all are of the mindset, geez, you know, we don’t want to be meeting to death and all of that, but I would argue that in the age of AI, meetings are even more valuable than they were before because you can’t fake this kind of interaction. Gini Dietrich: Right. Chip Griffin: If you’re engaging with somebody on Zoom or Teams, I mean, sure, you could have one of those AI apps that, that, you know, the kids are apparently using to interview these days where it puts the answers up on the screen or whatever. I don’t know. But the reality is nobody’s really doing that that I know of, in the agency and client world. So, you know, it’s reasonable to assume that you are actually being yourself when you are communicating with a client, prospect, or team member. And so take advantage of those opportunities. Don’t say, “Well, this could’ve been an email.” Well, yeah, it probably could’ve been, but people are gonna think that was generated by AI. So, you know, don’t meeting yourself to death, but certainly be more open to meetings than you might’ve been five years ago. Gini Dietrich: And I would add to that, that I think the person you mentioned a few minutes ago, I think that’s exactly right. You know, at, I mean, as my agency grows and as we get bigger and, and like the amount of stuff that comes at me every day is impossible to keep up with, and the meetings, especially the one-to-one meetings that I have with my team that are most effective are the ones that they say, “I need this decision, this decision, and this decision,” and then they walk me through so that I’m not having to review decks. I’m not having to review documents. They walk me through what they’re doing. They walk me through their problem-solving, and they walk me through the decisions that they need from me to be able to move forward. Otherwise, it’s gonna sit on my to-do list for two or three weeks when they can use a one-to-one really effectively that way. So I think you’re absolutely right. You don’t necessarily have to have more meetings. You just need to use them more effectively. Chip Griffin: Right. And I mean, even before the age of AI, I always told all my direct reports, “Use those one-on-one meetings to just get every answer you need from me.” Yep. It, it’s the best way… you’ve got me focused. Take advantage of that. Absolutely. Don’t walk away saying, “Geez, I should’ve asked him this.” If you can get the answer, get the answer. And I think we can, we can do that, but it’s also your opportunity to show that you’ve actually got the knowledge yourself in these conversations. You’re not relying on AI to spoon-feed it all to you because, I mean, let’s face it, you know, we’ve all come to distrust the content we see from almost everybody- Mm-hmm … and say, “Well geez, is that really theirs or did that come from AI?” And people are, they’re trying to say, “Oh, well, I can identify the AI.” You can’t. I guarantee you can’t. I can’t tell the difference between my writing and AI writing unless I do a forensic analysis and go back to figure out who wrote the first draft of something. Yeah. And I think that, I mean, honestly, I think the people who have the toughest time with that are the people who, you know, were prolific writers before because prolific writers tended to write in a certain way, which is what the LLM’s all trained on. So, you know, those of us who were professional writers … we used a lot of em dashes. That taught the LLMs, “Use em dashes.” Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: Now, you use an em dash, you must be using AI. Yeah. Baloney. Baloney. Gini Dietrich: Baloney. I still use an em dash, and I will die on that hill because I am not going to stop. Chip Griffin: No. And, that’s the human style that we used to be able to express in writing. I think it’s becoming increasingly difficult to truly express yourself in written form, in a way that is fully trusted by folks. And so I think the, you know, for now at least, there is also an opportunity to do more video in your content creation. Because while, yes, you can fake AI, and that’s getting really good, to be honest with you, the avatars you can create and, and I could create it as if this show was me talking, and nobody would be any the wiser. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: It’s still rare that that’s happening today. Right. So for now, you have that opportunity to make that human person-to-person connection through video, and so I’m encouraging everybody to do more video. Maybe not instead of the written, but at least in conjunction with it, because it helps to show that you’re putting these thoughts and ideas into your own voice and not just, you know, generating something with Claude or ChatGPT and shipping it without a thought. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And in person, if you can do it in person, I would recommend that as well. Chip Griffin: Oh, in person’s even better. Gini Dietrich: Like, yeah. Like, I mean, I- absolutely, because- Chip Griffin: ‘Cause you really can’t fake it in person, at least not yet. Gini Dietrich: You definitely cannot fake it in person. Chip Griffin: I mean, we, we don’t have convincing holograms out there that someone  can’t tell is a hologram. Not yet. Not yet. Gini Dietrich: Not yet. I am very much looking forward to that, but not yet. Chip Griffin: Well, I mean, I, I do believe- Mm-hmm … that the world needs more of us out there physically. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: I mean, we could take the Chip and Gini Show on the road- Gini Dietrich: We could … Chip Griffin: without having to, to leave anywhere. Just have the AI do it all for us. Gini Dietrich: Fantastic. I love it. Yeah. We’ll just be like Princess Leia and we’ll beam in. I love it. Let’s do it. I think that’s fantastic. Chip Griffin: Ah, yes. But I mean, I think there are other ways that you can make those personal connections. You know, one of the things that I’ve done for a number of years now is I’ve done handwritten notes to people on a weekly basis. Not everybody every week, obviously, but you know- Gini Dietrich: I’ve never gotten a handwritten note from you. Chip Griffin: Uh, I think you did, like, at the very start of this show, I think. I believe I did, but I would have to go back and- Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think you might be right. Okay, I take it back … Chip Griffin: pretty, pretty sure that you did. I- All right you know, I, I try not to overdo it because at some point it- Fine … it gets cheapened. But, generally speaking, when I have a podcast guest on, for example, I send them a handwritten note after the episode goes out, assuming I have their address. I mean, that’s obviously a challenge in some cases. Sure. And it gets a little creepy when you start asking people for their addresses sometimes. So you gotta … It’s, it’s not as easy as it once was, and sending something to a business address- Right … doesn’t necessarily get there anymore. Yeah, yeah. But when you can get an address to send them a personal handwritten note, it stands out today ’cause nobody gets any mail. Yep. Nobody sees things that aren’t electronic, and even though, in my case, nobody can read my handwriting, but they still know that I put the thought into it. That’s right. Yep. And the fact that they can’t read it tells them it’s real, right? Because if I paid one of the services, ’cause you can pay services that will, you know- Gini Dietrich: To type it out, yeah Chip Griffin: well, no, will do a fake handwritten- Gini Dietrich: Oh, yeah, yeah … Chip Griffin: thing. But it’s computer generated, so it’s, it’s fully legible. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: There’s no way anybody would pay for what I send. I mean, it’s just, it’s … I mean, I can’t read half of what I write. And I try. I, I do try, but I just have horrible, horrible penmanship. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think that you’re right. Any way that we can create the human-to-human interaction, and lots, there are lots of tools available today that make it easy for us, that’s gonna be, that’s, that is going to set us apart. And like I said to my team earlier today, the more time you can spend with a client or with a prospect really understanding their business, the way that they operate day to day, their pain points, the business’ pain points, those are the kinds of conversations that are gonna make you smarter. And if you use AI, you take that transcript and you dump it in there and say, “These are the kinds of things I’m thinking about. Can you poke some holes in it or tell me what I’m missing?” For sure you can do that, but do that after the conversation so that you, you understand, you can demonstrate your experience and your expertise and really have that human-to-human interaction. Chip Griffin: Well, and, leaning into something you said before- Look for those opportunities where you can get together with people in person. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: And so again, I think the value of that has been elevated. It’s always been important and useful to, to meet with clients, prospects, team members in person, but I think it’s even more valuable today because, you know, we, as we talked about, you can’t fake that kind of interaction. Technology isn’t doing it for you. But it also allows you to elevate yourself over other people they may be interacting with, whether that’s a prospect looking at different firms, or whether that’s an employee who’s like, “Well, I, I feel disconnected ’cause we’re remote.” I mean, we, we talk about the importance of if you’re running a remote agency, which many of you are, you need to have regular in-person get-togethers, and you need to have budget to get people to travel. If they’re not all local, you still need to bring them in because those human interactions that you have by getting together, meeting in person, sharing a meal, sharing a coffee, those are all things that allow you to strengthen the connection and really set yourself apart in the age of AI. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and I think you said something really, really important, which is set the budget. So as you’re budgeting – granted, I know not everybody budgets every year, but you should be doing that. As you’re doing that, set some budget aside for these kinds of things. And I will tell you, and certainly I am not an accountant, I am not a finance professional, but in many cases, you can… Even if you host that in your home, something like that in your home, not have people stay there, but host, like, strategy planning meetings or things like that in your home, you can deduct some of that from your taxes. So you can… There’s, there are ways that you can do it so it’s not actually costing you money on top of, like, it’s something that’s deductible. So, you know, talk to your accountant about that, but there are some things that you can do to offset some of those costs, too. Chip Griffin: Yeah, it’s, you’re talking about the Augusta rule. So when you talk with your accountant, ask about the Augusta rule. It is something that is potentially useful, but please, dear God, do talk to your accountant before you do this- Gini Dietrich: Yes, please. Please. … Chip Griffin: Because I’ve talked with some folks, they see someone online say, “Oh, you should use the Augusta rule,” and they’re like, “Oh, cool. Well, I’ll just do…” No, there’s actual proper steps that you have to go through to prove that it’s a legitimate expense, to prove the amount and all of that kind of stuff. So, so please, do make sure that, because it is, that is one of the more complicated areas of tax law, and so you really wanna make sure that you’re getting that one correct so that- Gini Dietrich: Yeah, just- … Chip Griffin: they don’t come in and whack you for- Gini Dietrich: Take our advice to, take our advice to look into it. Yeah. Do not take our advice to just implement it. Chip Griffin: Right. But regardless of how you go about getting together in person, the important thing, at least for this episode, is that you do it, because that does, it, it strengthens that human connection, which pays all sorts of dividends. I mean, even with clients, getting together in person, it, it helps you. You can read body language in ways that you can’t do even on a video call. You can strengthen the relationship so that when you hit that inevitable rough patch somewhere down the road, and we all hit rough patches with our clients at one point or another- it gives you that oftentimes reservoir of goodwill that you can draw on because you made that human connection, and you’re not just, you know, the other end of a contract. You are someone that they’ve gotten to know. And so we want to try to find as many ways as possible to have that relationship with everybody that we work with at every level, vendors, clients, prospects, team members. Gini Dietrich: Yep, yep. Chip Griffin: Whatever it may be. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Yeah, I mean, my newsletter that’s going out in a couple of days, talks about how Ocean Spray was one of my very first clients as a young whipper-snapper working at FleishmanHillard. And there, my day-to-day contact at, there became one of my closest friends. She’s one of my closest friends today, even though we haven’t worked together in 20 years, and the reason being is that we got together in person all the time, we traveled together, we were, you know, sort of in the, the ranks together working through all sorts of issues and challenges and, you know, building… We built a real friendship. And you can’t do that on Zoom. You just can’t. Chip Griffin: Right. And, I know we all want to be more efficient and all of that, and that’s all fine and good, and I am a huge believer in using the technology- Oh, yeah … whether it’s AI or otherwise- Gini Dietrich: Absolutely … Chip Griffin: to, to make yourself more efficient, but you can’t do that at the expense of losing that human touch. Gini Dietrich: Right. Totally. People skills, people skills, people skills. Chip Griffin: They are more important today than they have ever been. And that, that is common throughout history. As, as one thing becomes dominant, the antidote to it, if you will, or the opposite piece of it often becomes equally valuable because everybody else is ignoring it. So find those places where you can stand out, you can be a little bit different. And, many people went into the agency world because they were people people, people. I… it sounds so stupid. Gini Dietrich: People, people people, people pleasers. Person, person, people. People, pe- people Chip Griffin: ‘Cause you’re a people person- A person so if you’re people pe- I don’t know. Gini Dietrich: I don’t know either. Chip Griffin: I feel like I’ve taken this off the rails as I usually do, so maybe this is a good point to, to draw ourselves to a close here before people get peopled out. Gini Dietrich: We are all people people. People people. Chip Griffin: Makes me think of that old song, what is it, the, The Purple People Eater or something like that? Gini Dietrich: Yes, that’s exactly what I was thinking of at the beginning. Yeah. Yep. Chip Griffin: Yeah. Which if I could remember it, I wouldn’t sing it anyway because we’d probably get a copyright strike, so. Or maybe not. I don’t know. I don’t know how all that stuff works. I wouldn’t either. On that note, uh, I’m definitely careening off the rails here, so we will draw this episode to a close. Thanks for listening. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on Apex Express, Host Miko Lee talk story with singer-songwriter Thao Nguyen.  Hear about her new album Fossil,  her short documentary, and about her artistic inspirations. Thao's tour starts this week in North Carolina, so listen in to hear from the brilliant Thao, and then check out her website to catch a live show.   SHOW TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:35] Miko Lee: Tonight on Apex Express, we talk story with singer-songwriter Thao Nguyen. Join me, your host, Miko Lee, as I talk with this multi-hyphenated artist. We get to hear about her new album, chat about her short documentary, and hear about her artistic inspirations. Thao's tour starts this week in North Carolina, so listen in to hear from the brilliant Thao, and then check out her website to catch a live show.   [00:01:05] Ayame Keane-Lee: In today's show, you'll be listening to some songs from Thao & The Get Down Stay Down's 2020 album, Temple. First off, let's listen to “Pure Cinema.”   MUSIC     [00:05:44] That was “Pure Cinema” by today's guest, Thao Nguyen. Let's get to the interview.   [00:05:50] Miko Lee: Welcome  Thao Nguyen to Apex Express.    [00:05:54] Thao Nguyen: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.    [00:05:57] Miko Lee: I love talking with creative people and you're such an amazingly talented singer and songwriter and imagination creator. I'm wanna start with the first question I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   [00:06:16] Thao Nguyen: Who are my people? Some of them include the family I was born into. I'm from Virginia. I was born and raised in Virginia. but I'm the daughter of Vietnamese refugees of war. And, I moved out to the Bay in 2006 after my first US tour. And, I'm so fortunate to have such a robust community here in the bay and all of my chosen family here.   [00:06:40] Miko Lee: And what legacy do you carry with you?    [00:06:43] Thao Nguyen: What legacy? I think the legacy I prioritize. I think, you know, [laughs] we inherit a lot and as time goes on and we get older, we realize everything is finite and you have to choose which legacies you choose to continue, and perpetuate and honor and what you have to leave by the wayside. And so the things I choose to continue and celebrate are that of a real ability to be very present and in the moment and available to joy and I think the people I come from are really good at metabolizing joy because they know the flip side of it so well.    [00:07:23] Miko Lee: Ooh, that's so interesting. Can you speak more about what it means to metabolize joy?    [00:07:30] Thao Nguyen: [Laughs] uh, an ongoing practice? I think it is to be truly present and I believe, of course gratitude goes a long way, but I to fully metabolize it is to allow yourself to feel embodied in it. And, you know, there's more somatic practice I think that to actually feel it course through your body, you are allowing it, you're honoring it as completely as possible. And, do you have to acknowledge that it's happening as it's happening? You know, I think that's having true presence with it.   [00:08:08] Miko Lee: Can you roll back with me in time and talk about your earliest childhood memories of being a singer or songwriting? What came first?    [00:08:18] Thao Nguyen: I loved music from a very early age, but I didn't have a lot of access to it, to making it, it was more as a listener. The soundscape that I grew up with, there was a series called Paris by Night, which probably you've heard of within Vietnamese diaspora, uh, community and Culture. And it was this variety show that was, created by, people who had to flee Vietnam. And originally it was in Paris and it showcased A lot of singers and performers, who had fled, either before, during, or right after the fall of Saigon. And, it was this one gathering wherein. entertainers from the different generations, from my grandmother's generation, from my parents were able to coalesce and exist together. And there was just this sampler platter of a lot of different sonic influences. And then you had the younger generation, which was reinterpreting what American pop music was at the time. So you'd have my grandmother who [sang] cải lương which was this incredibly, it's like, almost like folk operatic, very dramatic, theatrical singing with a lot of pitch bending and, which I didn't understand that I was absorbing it in such a way that I would recreate it later on in my playing, but I would go on to credit it to being from Virginia and saying it was more of like an Appalachian influence, which it was as well. But the origins, the true origins were within my soundscape before I understood what that was. You know, so you have that and then you have, an artist named Lynette who's. basically in reinterpreting, like the latest Madonna song and has a cone bra on, so everyone's existing act after act in the same, um, sorry for that ramble. Did I answer that question?    [00:10:13] Miko Lee: Yeah. Uh, I, so what was, do you remember the age or you just grew up hearing all these different kinds of sounds?    [00:10:20] Thao Nguyen: I mean, that was from before I knew what age I was, you know, that was just like, and that was such, um. For the community and within my family it was such an event every time one of these, you know, double VHS things were issued that people would be making copies, someone would drop it off at the house. You know, there, there was always one or two in circulation, but it was this. Event that you'd,    [00:10:43] Miko Lee: are these like bootleg copies?    [00:10:45] Thao Nguyen: Yeah, there's like, wow, there's bootleg. There's also, there was one book in music store in Eden Shopping Center, which was like the hub of, of the Vietnamese community in, in, uh, Northern Virginia. And so someone would buy the original and then go and bootleg it. You don't know how you ended up with what, but just like they would drop off some citrus and and Hennessy or whatever, and then the Paris By Night thing. And um,    [00:11:11] Miko Lee: I love that the combo citrus, Hennessy and some music.   [00:11:16] Thao Nguyen: Everything is a digestif, you know? And, um, so I would have that. But then of course, I, you know, I, I listened to the radio. That was what, that was my main resource and I listened to the oldie station the most, and I loved Motown. And I remember, in this I was like five or six, we had these large speakers that's sat on the floor either side of, of this cassette deck, radio unit. And I would lay down and, every time Smokey Robinson came on, “You really got a hold of me” that was like my favorite song and I would tape it and then so either I would listen to it live or I would play the cassette and I would just lay down and get as close to the speakers as I could. But at that point, I hadn't seen who Smokey Robinson was, and I imagined, because I also am a child of eighties and nineties. I imagined it was Crystal who was Roseanne's best friend from the Roseanne show. You know, I didn't know anything, but I felt all of it.    [00:12:20] Miko Lee: Wow. Yeah. I love that. So, I love that. And I was really wondering, I heard this story about you, that you actually did a rap for on Charlotte's Web when you were in elementary school.   [00:12:33] Thao Nguyen: Okay. Okay. This is a deep cut. You've done some research.    [00:12:39] Miko Lee: Tell me about how that came to be. So you must have been introduced to rap pretty young to be doing that.    [00:12:44] Thao Nguyen: Oh, absolutely. This, so this was another, and this, I'm so glad you brought that up, because all of this is, every genre, every kind of music I, at this point is so vital to me, and it actually goes on to reflect the kind of music I make. And so I have an older brother who's almost eight years older, and around this same time, he's a huge hip hop fan, or that's one of the things he loves, he loves like Duran Duran and like the Fat Boys, you know? And , when I saved money, the first cassette I ever bought was Salt-n-Pepa. And I, yeah, so I was listento the Fat Boys and Queen Latifah. And I loved, I loved every, I loved to hear the flow, the different cadences and in third grade I was voted best rapper. This, and, you know, not coincidentally. This is the year I, I do the book report, the Charlotte's Web, you know, and they gave me the option. You can either write it or you can write a song or whatever. And so I wrote a rap about Charlotte's Web, but I was too shy. I had recorded it and just played it in my presentation. I didn't perform it live.    [00:13:51] Miko Lee: And how was it received?    [00:13:54] Thao Nguyen: I mean, I can still hear the roar. yeah, everyone, [laughs] I think the teachers    [00:14:01] Miko Lee: The crowd roared. The third graders roared.    [00:14:03] Thao Nguyen: Yeah. I mean, everyone's standing on their desks. It's rickety, you know, teachers are worried about child safety, it doesn't matter. They're like, Encore. I'm like, I don't have anything else. Uh, you know, uh,   [00:14:15] Miko Lee: Wait for real?   [00:14:17] Thao Nguyen: No, no. [laughs] the teachers thought it was cute. Probably the kids thought it was funny. I actually don't know because I was so nervous I even pressing play. I was so nervous. I don't know if I registered what, how it was received.    [00:14:34] Miko Lee: That's so sweet. Given your eclectic music knowledge and the music that was around you at the time as a musician, now you've been described with so many different categories, country tinge, indie folk, pop, blues. How would you describe your music?  [00:14:54] Thao Nguyen: I would describe it as. What's embarrassing is I've been doing this a long time now and I've never figured out a way to describe it. I would, I, I generally just say it's, you know, it's under the umbrella of indie rock, but influenced by jazz and hip hop. And because I learned to play guitar by picking out country blues songs. And because I grew up in Virginia, there, there are these, like old time, Country blues picking patterns that I've used. I, you know, it's, yeah. So that, I've never figured out a way to say it succinctly and I continue    [00:15:29] Miko Lee: and you don't need to. That's okay.    [00:15:31] Thao Nguyen: Thank you.    [00:15:31] Miko Lee: Is there a big Vietnamese population in Virginia?    [00:15:35] Thao Nguyen: Yeah, I, I think there is a very healthy population there. And it was one of the first places that people were settling when they were being resettled. And my parents met, in a refugee camp in Guam. And then they were sent to Arkansas. And then from there sponsored out to North Carolina. And then from there of a few friends that they had made, had found work with Metro, which is the public transportation train system in DC and found my dad work there. So that's why people resettle, that's why we ended up in Virginia.    [00:16:16] Miko Lee: So Thao & The Get Down Stay Down you released five studio albums and now you're working primarily as a solo artist. Right?    [00:16:25] Thao Nguyen: Yes. Yeah. I will say I still work record and perform with a band. And a lot of the people who worked and performed with me in that iteration are still with me. it was more I wanted to, just use my name and move beyond what the get down stay down was, which I was never really sure. With things that you choose when you're 22. As time goes, you know, it starts to, and you're lucky if you can kind of shed things and not, not stay beholden too much.   [00:16:57] Miko Lee: Ah, what have you learned to shed?   [00:17:02] Thao Nguyen: Oh my gosh. Thankfully a great deal and it's an ongoing exercise, but. I used to be so much heavier with the weight of what I thought a serious artist was what I thought a serious songwriter should be, who I thought, where I thought my, you know, different benchmarks of what success were. What I should be making versus what people wanted to hear versus what I wanted to hear. I actually never I wasn't always all the way sure about what I wanted. You know, I, I think a lot of people encounter that, but I've thankfully been able to shed as much as I can. It's an ongoing practice, but I, you know, one thing it. Is that I used to think, I can't believe I've been doing this this long. And it's, not necessarily, I didn't understand what I was working towards, but only that I had not gotten there yet. And then, you know, I think pandemic and on, I've been just so and as I get older, the transition into being so sincerely grateful that I'm still here and I get to do this. this is what my job is, and however I can, and whatever I can do to sustain, being able to, to do this for my livelihood and maintain my integrity within it is the greatest gift. So as when I made that switch a a lot of things, a lot of the darkness left me.    [00:18:39] Miko Lee: Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing.   [00:18:42] Ayame Keane-Lee: Next, let's listen to Temple, the first track off of Thao's album of the same name.   MUSIC   [00:22:56] That was Temple by Thao and the Get Down Stay Down. Back to her interview with Miko.   [00:23:01] Miko Lee: I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about the 2017 documentary Nobody Dies, a film about a musician, her mom in Vietnam. How did that, and that's a documentary that follows you and your mom as you go to Vietnam. I'm wondering how that project came about.  [00:23:17] Thao Nguyen: Yes, I'm happy to tell you about it. in 2015 I was invited by concert promoters in conjunction with the US Embassy based in Hanoi, to come perform for the, I guess at that point it was the 25th anniversary of the normalization of relations between the US and Vietnam, and I was able to bring my band and I was able to bring my mom, and she hadn't been back in 43 years, and she used to work for the South Vietnamese embassy and was stationed in Lao, when Saigon fell. So she actually left Vietnam in 73, assuming she would go back after her time abroad and then was never able to return. So I was able to bring her, the struggle was would she actually come, you know, and we had, I had, a bear of the time initially convincing her it would be okay. And, it was like, just begging her to come. She's like freaking out. She hangs up on me. I call back. She hangs up. You know, it was a back and forth that I'm trying to convince her of things that I'm not sure of where she's like, I'm still on a list. I'm like, no, you're not. But I don't know that, you know who, how would I know that? But I told her she wasn't on the list. Anyway, my, a friend of mine who's a filmmaker, as this all was happening, he asked if he could come along and document all of it. And he and, his DP traveled with us and it was an incredibly intense trip, and it was beautiful and I am so glad it was documented. And then somewhere along the way I had a performance and, this was all in editing. And then I ran into Don Young at CAAM Center for Asian American Media. Oh, I know what it was. It was something for Sundance and Don Young and I were just in the same shuttle going to the airport and we were talking and I told him a little bit about this and then I sent him some footage and you know, and then CAAM and PBS were gracious enough to co-produce and, Make it so it could be, you know, a a half hour documentary that aired on PBS. Um,    [00:25:21] Miko Lee: so that that was on a bus ride.    [00:25:23] Thao Nguyen: That was on an airport shuttle.    [00:25:25] Miko Lee: Airport shuttle. I love it.    [00:25:26] Thao Nguyen: Yeah [laughs].    [00:25:28] Miko Lee: So was it hard to convince your mom, I know it was hard to convince her to go to Vietnam. Was it hard to convince her also then to be on film? What was her response to that?    [00:25:37] Thao Nguyen: Well, luckily for all of us, my mom loves to be on film and is, um, a total flirt and ham and. Oh,    [00:25:48] Miko Lee: so that was a bonus. That was like a,    [00:25:49] Thao Nguyen: that was a bonus. The camera loves her. As did the film director, my friend Todd, she loved it. And she just, she comes alive and she's a true performer. And, it was really beautiful to see her in this element that I, I didn't know if I'd ever, I actually. Never thought I'd get to see her this way. You know, I grew up, both my brother and I grew up translating for her, it is sort of at every, at every level. And, we'd go out to restaurants and it's not that she, you know, it's like she would get shy and then it would just easier, it always just became easier if we just did it for her. But, so we'd order for restaurants and, and to see her. not to say that she doesn't I mean, she was a small business owner. She owned a laundromat, dry cleaners in Virginia and totally is the reason why everybody is alive, you know? But, to see her move so seamlessly and easily, I'm sorry, it's emotional in the world was this, such a gift I didn't know I'd get. And, You see her haggling with people, you know, and, and she's directing as she's pointing out. Yeah. It was just a really, no matter how long someone has been away from the place they were born, you know, to see them back there is, um, it was, yeah, it was just such a beautiful gift and I'm glad we have it on film.   [00:27:17] Miko Lee: Did you discuss that with your mom? How different that was for you to see her in a different way?    [00:27:22] Thao Nguyen: You know, not, not, um, not directly. I've written about it, but I've not, we don't have the kind of, Yeah. That, that's never come up in those ways. You know, we talk a lot. I basically, I try to call her at least, uh, almost every day, just 'cause she lives across the country. So I wanna just be sure that, you know, I'm just doing these like, casual wellness checks, but we don't often get into those more philosophical conversations. Um, but she did, you know, the, the song Temple, Which would become the lead single of the album Temple was, inspired by this moment of candor that I had never experienced before and I would never experience again. It happened one night when we were in Vietnam and she just said outta nowhere. You have to understand what freedom is and you have to understand why a million people would risk their lives at sea, and I can't. I can't teach you that. I can't help you with it. You have to know for yourself. And that's what became, the song Temple where wherein she's speaking to me about her life before, during, and after war.   [00:28:35] Miko Lee: That's so powerful. Thank you for sharing. I, I appreciate that about your music, the personal, visions and dreams and pain that you experience putting that in. Is there another song of yours that really stands out to you?    [00:28:51] Thao Nguyen: Another one. Aside from that?    [00:28:53] Miko Lee: Aside from that.    [00:28:54] Thao Nguyen: There's. You know, yes, there's a, there's definitely a few from this new album that is, that I just finished and it's releasing in September. From that same album Temple there's, the song Marrow. there's a few. That album is as much, it was, it was this, I just had this, I knew that I had to make it both about, what my Vietnamese identity is and what it is to be queer in Vietnamese and stay in the culture, which is not something that I thought I could do. So yeah, I would say both Temple and Marrow encapsulate, this effort to fully align myself in ways that I hadn't been able to.    [00:29:40] Miko Lee: And what is Marrow about?    [00:29:42] Thao Nguyen: Marrow is about what it means to fully accept yourself so that you could offer yourself to the rest of your life. You know, it's, it's like.   [00:29:54] Miko Lee: That's all.   [00:29:56] Thao Nguyen: That's all. And it's, and it was against the backdrop of getting married. but it was more about me coming to terms with not even coming to terms, like even that language is so, disparaging. It's, it was just about claiming myself and saying to my family, I need to be, you know, I, I need to be my full self and I believe I can be with you still. But you know, the lines are, It's so funny. I sing it all the time and I can't do that. The line I'm thinking of in particular is, at that point I'm apologizing to my partner at the time and saying, you know, I am basically, I couldn't claim us because of this barrier, but I'm sorry to you and I'm sorry to me, and the, you know. I have grief in my marrow. Will you marry me still? So is it, that's a roundabout way of explaining what that, what that song is.   [00:30:54] MUSIC    [00:34:24] Ayame Keane-Lee: You just listened to “Marrow” by tonight's guest, Thao Nguyen.    [00:34:28] Miko Lee: You talk about Temple and how that was based on this trip you took in 2015, right? 2016. How long does it generally take you for a song to germinate?    [00:34:41] Thao Nguyen: You know, that one, um, that's, that is an example of a, a longer, uh, gestation period because it was such an intense, because Vietnam was such an intense time. Uh, it was months, maybe it was two years before I could even think about it, honestly. And there are other things that happen. I wish things happened more instantaneously. It's very rare that a whole song will just present itself. You know, temple, that song in particular, when I started writing it, it took maybe two hours, but it took me two years to get to the point where I could    [00:35:20] Miko Lee: And it just came to you in two hours?   [00:35:22] Thao Nguyen: Yeah. It just came, just the vision. All those, the imagery, everything that I'd wanted to say. It just, I understood how. To present it. And I think I had tried in other forms over that time, but it just wasn't ready. Other songs, um, yeah, anywhere from it's, it's like the chorus or a hook or a verse will come very quickly, and then the time, the more arduous stuff is building around it to make sure that it, it, you know, it's properly bolstered. Like I, if I believe in a hook, then I'll, I'll try to build the house around it.    [00:36:02] Miko Lee: And how, what do you do? Do you just record it straight up right when you get the hook, like on a small device or what's your process?    [00:36:09] Thao Nguyen: It um, typically I'm playing an instrument, either guitar or piano or I've written, you know, sometimes I get bored, I write on other instruments, but primarily it's guitar, piano, and, um. It'll be the melodic hook only on the instrument, and then I'll put words. But yeah, it's, I, I just use voice memos and then as I'm building it, then I'll move into pro tools and, and, and record a more proper demo.    [00:36:40] Miko Lee: And do you have a set working process or you just vibe it whenever you're feeling it? And I ask because I always ask this of artists. Because I think it's so interesting, what is the discipline it takes for your art form? And I remember I interviewed Isabel Allende years ago and she said, yes, I make myself go in my studio at 8:00 AM every day. And even if I can't write, I sit there from this time to this time. So what, what is your process like? Or do you have a set process?    [00:37:05] Thao Nguyen: Yes. Absolutely. And it's taken me so many years to figure out what my set process is and to have the discipline to really, really, um, I do believe it is a daily practice and it is a daily discipline and I'm so afraid of what happens when I slip out of it because I know what happens. I've tumbled into this very dark, deep well of despair and I don't know. You, you start to question what your whole purpose is. It gets bad very quickly, right? So I'm always trying to stay on the side of not completely sliding down. Not to say it isn't very joyful and I mean this a very lucky position to be in. One of the things that's been going on for the last few years is I have multiple projects going on at once and I do have to figure out, I had an, um, the album is just finished thankfully, but I am developing a musical and I'm also writing a book. And so I have to figure out, I divvy out the days. I would like to say that I can work on all three in one day, not possible. So I have to choose, um. And it's always, the morning time is the best for generating something from nothing. And then I try not to edit or revise or question it until that afternoon or later. Actually, you don't question it within that same day. Like the main, I think the main priority for me is maintaining momentum and optimism. So I need to do whatever it is to thwart whatever part of me is trying to take it down. Um, so I'll work in the morning for a few hours and then leave it, you know, and as writers say, leave it no matter if it's songwriting or whatever, like leave it at a place where you, when you start again, you feel good about it and you know what the next step is.   [00:39:08] Miko Lee: Do you have a set time? It's like just the morning from this time to this time. And then do you say musical today? Book today. Album today. How do you do that?    [00:39:17] Thao Nguyen: Well, it depends on the deadlines.    [00:39:21] Miko Lee: Of course.    [00:39:22] Thao Nguyen: I, yeah, I, I work to the deadline. 'cause there's always, thankfully, there's always at least one happening and yeah, I. I love this by the way, because I actually, when I'm stuck, I just look up different routines for writers and artists. It's like my favorite thing to do. So I love to participate in this conversation. Um, but I wake up, I meditate, I try to do a little stretching, and then I do a walk. It depends on where I'm working. Okay? Here's the thing. If I'm working on music, I have to work at home. If I can write, then I'm gonna go to a coffee shop or the library or my friends just opened up local economy, uh, that, that, so I've been going there and because writing is so lonely and miserable that I cannot be in the house, I, I, there's no way I have to be in public. Um, and just at least feeling the energy of other life    [00:40:18] Miko Lee: With songwriting also?    [00:40:19] Thao Nguyen: With songwriting, I have to be home 'cause I'm making all this noise. So what? Yeah, with songwriting I'll be at home, but that's way less miserable 'cause I can just play guitar or piano or something and then, or I'll be in studio with my friends that I'm making the album with. Um, now that I've finished the album and I'm moving and I'm more squarely in the book writing, um, I try to do two hours. You know, not, not solid. I will try, like, for a while, um, I was doing the timer with the, you know, 25 minutes at a time. And then that wasn't, I wasn't getting enough done and then, yeah, and then more than two hours. I, I just can't, it's not sustainable. Um, for me, I feel like I get a solid hour to two. Or maybe you hit like a two page, two or three page, um, quota or something, and then just don't even look at it and then go, and then I go exercise and I need to be outside and, or go on a hike or something.    [00:41:34] Miko Lee: Okay. Tell us about this book. What is it about, what's the timeline? No pressure.    [00:41:41] Thao Nguyen: I would love to tell you what it was about, if I knew better. Um, what it was. It's, it's a collection of essays and I'm calling it, so it's, it's, uh, it'll be out on Gray Wolf, um, into, in spring of 27. And so it is due relatively soon 'cause they, it's a longer lead time. I'm calling it a community memoir, um, because it's a collection of essays from different, it's all through my lens, but it's to celebrate these characters that I grew up with in Foster Virginia, within my family, within the community that I, they're so vivid to me and. Their stories. The quieter sides, the quieter moments of what it means to live in diaspora or what I wanna capture. And also what, you know, part of it is what shaped my musical life. And, and there are all these influences and elements that I, that I just wanted to celebrate and honor and. These people that I remember, but I, I'm, we're all, you know, I'm, I'm turning 42. I'm like, I, we're close to lo I'm close to losing the Hi-Fi detail of them, you know, and, and I don't know who else, is in a position to capture it. You know, and, and also it's this amazing opportunity to talk to my mom's, brothers and sisters. You know, there are tales. There's, of course, you grow up with, I think it's really different to, I was raised, you know, in Virginia by my, primarily by my mom. My grandmother and my aunt didn't come till I was five, but the stories that I heard. Mostly were from my mom who fled in, who left in 73, and her experience is so different than my grandmother, my aunt, all of my mom's siblings who stayed, who had to stay through the fall and, and live in a different regime, you know?    And so to get to hear those stories of just like the more quotidian indignities of what is life after you've lost your. To them they've lost their country, but they're still in it. You know, like, what is it to, with what were the rice rations like? Yeah. So, 50 years on what stays with people, you know, against the backdrop of the most devastating thing that can happen is that like the rice was so broken and it was so rationed and the quality of it was so infuriating and that they and my uncle talks about just for the 50th anniversary, I went back, I had an event, um, I think at the Smithsonian, and I went and I was staying with my uncle, and so I was able to ask them questions and he remembers buying meat on the black market. But you, you'd go to this market, you'd make eye contact with the person. They, you follow them to a behind the stall. They give you this meat wrapped in newspaper. You don't even know what it is. You don't, you can't unwrap it till you get home, you know? Anyway, those are the things that I, I just am so fascinated by, and I, there's just this kind of humanity and life in them that I wanna help. Um, record and if nothing else, just so that I know that it gives me an opportunity to ask these questions. Um, there's stuff about, you know, I'm estranged from my father and I have a lot there, there are things that I, you know, it just, these essays are helping me, better understand and, and process. these open-ended. storylines that, that, have punctuated and haunted me.    [00:45:38] Miko Lee: And this is your first book, right?    [00:45:40] Thao Nguyen: It is, yes.    [00:45:42] Miko Lee: What made you decide to do a book format and also essays, I heard you say? Mm-hmm. Um, as opposed to another album or a series of songs.    [00:45:52] Thao Nguyen: Um, I've always wanted to be a writer. Bef I wanted to be a writer before I was a songwriter, before I wanted to do anything. And I think it scares me the most in my life. And, and it was time to, you know, the opportunity came up, um, very fortunately to get to write a book for Gray Wolf, which of which I'm a huge fan, you know, and, uh, it's a true honor to be affiliated with them. And. Uh, I wanted to do it because it's a lifelong goal and dream, that actually is way scarier to me than making music and performing music. So I, I kind of just needed to see that I, I needed to try.    [00:46:38] Miko Lee: And why an essay format?    [00:46:40] Thao Nguyen: Um, I think that's what naturally. For this, for the first go, it, it, it is what naturally I'm drawn to and what happens most easily. Uh, and I think they're similar to songs in that way. And I, I am very much as a writer, as a songwriter or any or prose writer, I want to try and just capture the, a moment and a feeling and I. Um, that's my main prerogative and my main compulsion when I write. And so for this first go, I'm hoping that there will be more, but this, yeah. Is, is just the, the easiest way to package it.    [00:47:28] Miko Lee: I'm absolutely looking forward to reading it. Now share about a musical. Tell me more    [00:47:34] Thao Nguyen: Musical. I don't know how much I can say besides, uh, it's not been announced yet, but I do, I have been in, I do spend a lot of time in New York, um, and it's an adaptation. Um, I. I shouldn't have. I, I just wanted to mention that it was happening, but I know now that I sh I can't actually say.    [00:47:56] Miko Lee: Okay. That's okay. It's secret, So how can our audiences find out more about you and your work? We'll put a link to your website absolutely. On their webs, on our, program page. But are there other ways that folks can find out more and keep up to date with what you're doing?   [00:48:11] Thao Nguyen: For sure there's, um, well, all the social media, um, outlets were on there @thaogetstaydown. And um, I have a substack called THAO For The Record, which actually was just me sort of documenting my process of making this next record. Um, but that is my preferred way to be in touch in a more long form, um, less harried way. And the new album is coming out in mid to late September. And so I'm really excited about that. And we're, we are gearing up for more touring, starting the summertime.    [00:48:54] Miko Lee: Excellent. Can't wait to listen to you more and hear the new, piece. And thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express.    [00:49:02] Thao Nguyen: Thank you so much for having me. It was such a joy to speak with you.   [00:49:05] Ayame Keane-Lee: The last song we're playing tonight is also the last on the album Temple. It's called “I've Got Something.”   MUSIC [00:53:51] That was “I've Got Something” by Thao & The Get Down Stay Down. [00:53:55] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for listening tonight. Remember to reconnect to your ancestral technologies and hold in the power of tenderness. Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.            The post APEX Express – 6.18.26 Talk Story with Thao Nguyen appeared first on KPFA.

Giovan Scialdone, president of 3S Lift Americas, joins to discuss 30,000 Climb Auto System installs and a new lift-mounted rescue stretcher. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow Allen Hall: Gio, welcome back to the program.  Gio Scialdone: Hey, thanks, Allen.  Allen Hall: So a lot’s happened over the past year since we last spoke with you at 3S Lift. Yeah. And there’s all kinds of new technology and improvements and the- The expansion of the Climb Auto system in the United States is remarkable. Yeah. How many systems do you have installed in North America? Gio Scialdone: Yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, it’s, it’s… The, the pride that we take in, in those numbers are, are serious. We, we feel, uh, a great responsibility to help technicians, to help our customers operate more, uh, more efficiently. We have 30,000 installed.  Allen Hall: Wow.  Gio Scialdone: So yeah, last year was a busy year. We installed close to 8,000, uh, in North America, so a bit in Canada as well. Um, [00:01:00] yeah, it’s… And, you know, before we get into some more numbers too, a funny story for you, a Massachusetts native- Right … or lived in Massachusetts- Long time … for a period of time. Uh, Hoosac Wind Farm, you know the Hoosac Wind Farm. Oh, yeah, yeah,  Allen Hall: I can see it out my front door.  Gio Scialdone: This is what’s great about this industry and being at this conference. Um, I ran into… At, at one point in time working for GE a long time ago, I was a site construction manager for Hoosac. I ran into my EHS safety manager, who I haven’t seen in 14 years-  Allen Hall: Wow …  Gio Scialdone: uh, who now works for another prominent, uh, company, uh, in the industry, and, uh, she remembered the name of my dog that- Really? I used to take to the site as a- Oh,  Allen Hall: wow.  Gio Scialdone: So, uh, you know, it’s good to be here, see you, and see, see, you know, lots of former colleagues, so,  Allen Hall: you know. Well, it’s a small world in wind.  Gio Scialdone: It’s a very small world. And, you know, we’re, we’re a company that, um, you know, again, we, we, we have a unique product, and there, there are some other companies that are, um, also coming out with a product quite similar, and we, [00:02:00] we appreciate that competition. Sure. In fact, I think, you know, we spend a lot of our time trying to, uh, sell our customers on the value that the ClimbAuto system is a need and not a nice to have, and I think having some competition with a similar ladder access product further, uh, maybe pushes that point to, to, to be true. So, um, you know, it’s good to be here and see some expansion in, in our little, uh, you know, ladder lift space. Allen Hall: Well, I think it shows the work that 3S has done to demonstrate the value of that system. I remember several years ago, I think when I first talked to you, there wasn’t a lot of adoption, and you were… And the operators were thinking, “Do I really need this?” But the reality was that the technicians loved it. They improved performance. They had technicians using those towers and wanted to work on those specific towers. Yeah. And, and then, uh, just kind of the flood happened. It, it was everybody was testing the [00:03:00] waters. You were basically installing test systems- Yeah … or sort of sample system to try it. Yeah. Everybody loved it, and then boom, you’re up to 30,000 units.  Gio Scialdone: I, I think, I think a part of that too to add on is you, you have to have a quality product.  Allen Hall: Oh, sure. It has to work. For, for… It has to work. Right.  Gio Scialdone: That’s the most important thing. Yeah. Um- The th- the, the, the value and the function in theory makes sense to lots of people, but does it work and is it reliable? And I think having been here nine years and, and, you know, the first three years we only had 500 units installed. Yeah. So it’s really the last three or four years that have expanded our, our installation base. And I think a lot of that is, you know, thank, you know, we’ve got a great team behind it. You know, we’ve got 70 technicians, and we’ve got a sales team, and an engineering team, and, um, you know, a project management team. So we, we’ve, we’ve staffed up as, as you need to. But the product we’ve, we, we really believe has, um, you know, been our best [00:04:00] salesperson. You know, it takes some service. That’s one thing I wanted to, to let you know, too. You know, in the early days, we- a lot of our customers were servicing our lifts. Sure. Right, yeah. And we still, um, uh, promote that if they would like to. Uh, annual inspection, you know, 30 minutes a year, um, that kind of pre-use inspection of one or two minutes before you ride it is- Sure … is, is, uh- Yeah, yeah … required. But now we’ve got a team of 20 to 25 technicians who their only job is to go around and, and service these lifts. So- Wow … we’re proud now that, you know, the oldest lifts are nine years. Oh, wow. And they’re still working very, very well as designed. You know, no, no major correctives, no motor replacements. So, you know, stand behind the product and, and, you know, service it, and servicing our customers is really what we’re, we’re proud to, to, to show. Allen Hall: Well, that was always the hard part early on. Um, my recollection was I could install this system, and yes, I could help my technicians, but am I fixing it, replacing it? The, the, the quality was the question mark at the moment.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: [00:05:00] But you’ve really hammered that, and I think 3S has done a good job of mainta- maintenance and inspections and just delivering a quality product. That’s why I think you’ve seen the growth as rapidly as you have, and the price point’s right, too.  Gio Scialdone: The price point has to be right. I think, you know, um, we’ve– we, we are offering some additional, let’s call them, like, support services. So we’ve got an online store where you can come and buy spare parts. You can buy every spare part that you need on our online store. Allen Hall: Nice.  Gio Scialdone: You know, accessories are required, fall arresters and battery kits and things like that, that even if you’re an ISP or, or a third party, uh, not the owner per se, you, you need that, that, that equipment. In addition to the online store, we- we, last year we launched, uh, an online training academy. So what’s… You know, it’s a very simple system to use. We’ve seen it. I’ve seen it. Used it.  Allen Hall: Yeah.  Gio Scialdone: Um, but we need to make sure as an industry and as a company that we take responsibility to make sure as, as best we can that every [00:06:00]person that uses this uses it appropriately and has the intelligence and the knowledge and skills to, um, troubleshoot basic things or perform safety evacuation features. So we’ve got an online training, um, uh, academy that we launched last year, and that’s been going well too. So more information we feel is better, uh, for our customers, for our technicians. Sure. You know. Um, so that’s been fantastic to see a lot more activity and customer… Again, a really small, you know, $200 per, per training course, and the certificate’s good for two years. You know, um, a robust course for an hour or two. It’s worth it.  Allen Hall: Well, it’s a reasonable price for an excellent product. Yeah. And that’s been the key for a long time. Yeah. Opening up the ability to get spare parts online, that’s huge. I know when you talk to operators, what’s the pain point? I have to call somebody- Yeah somewhere far away to try to get a part. Sure. It’s gonna take six months to get it.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: Getting it online is the way- Yeah … that they wanna do it. [00:07:00] So it’s a lot of smart moves to be the support part of, of that system.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah. We’ve come… I’m, I’m smiling because in Chicago, uh, maybe seven years ago, our, our first spill- spare parts process was- uh, my office had a closet that I housed all the spare parts.  Allen Hall: Yeah.  Gio Scialdone: You know? And, and when I needed to ship out something, I put it in a box and gave it to the, to, like, the building secretary, you know? That’s how it worked. And now we’re, we’re a little more sophisticated than that. We’ve- Y- you got a  Allen Hall: massive organization  Gio Scialdone: behind it We’ve got a 40,000 square foot warehouse that we’re, we’re really proud of, and a great team behind it to perform the logistics and track everything and… You know. So yeah, we’ve, we’ve come a long way, and our customers are helping us try to get better as well, you know. There’s still, there’s still a long way to go. Our objective as a company is to eliminate climbing, Alan. And it- And, and, and you know, I think there’s not much pushback, frankly.  Allen Hall: Not today. Right? Three years ago, a lot of pushback.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah. Yeah. I think, um… And what I mean, too, is, like, I think- From a, uh, a [00:08:00] value perspective, there’s no pushback. There’s still a budget perspective. Sure. And I think the challenges we’re finding still are if you’re at a wind farm and you have blade issues or, or, or drive train issues, uh, you might need to spend your dollars there before you spend them on a lift, and we, we, we understand and respect that. And so we’re working together with customers to try to come up with creative commercial solutions, be it, uh, you know, deferred payment models or multi-year, look at that as a, a capital cost plus some operational cost. Smart. Defer some of that capital, um, to, to sort of reduce that first year burden, right? Allen Hall: Yeah. So- That’s the  Gio Scialdone: scary  Allen Hall: part, right? They, they… The lump sum- It’s a big budget item. Yeah … is always an item, and they, especially in today’s world where we got gearbox and blade issues, they don’t want to spend on something that’s not directly there because it’s the, that’s what- Yeah … produces power.  Gio Scialdone: Right. Allen Hall: But technicians working on the turbines also produce power. That’s a great point.  Gio Scialdone: And  Allen Hall: you, and you need them, they go up and down- Yeah. That’s a good point … and sometimes you need them to go up and down a lot. Yeah. And if you don’t [00:09:00] wanna wear out those technicians, the, the lift is the way, the climb model system is the way to go. Right. It just makes… In today’s world, not having it, you’re the odd one out because most sites have some, if not all the turbines with the climb model system.  Gio Scialdone: There’s a, a… It reminded me of a, I talked to a customer today who said, you know, lots of these sites are clustered with phases. Uh, this particular customer retrofitted, uh, one of the two phases at their site. They’re split, let’s call it 50 turbines each or so, um, maybe two years ago, and then their struggle is they haven’t yet got the budget to do the second phase. Now, it’s the same group of  Allen Hall: technicians-  Gio Scialdone: Yeah … that work on both phases. So she, she explained to me that every morning when they go in and they kinda see which, which turbine they’re going to, there’s a, there’s a few of them going, “Yeah.” And there’s a couple other ones that are like, “Ah,” you know? Yeah. So there’s a real like… And I th- and I believe, you know, while that’s kind of a, an anecdotal kind of funny story, there’s, there’s, there’s real objective measures that you [00:10:00] can look at to say that it is, it is- correlated, hard to prove causation, but likely that those technicians who are climbing are gonna be less efficient at the same task than those who are not climbing, right? Yeah. And, and the customer knows that. And so, um, you know, we’ve gotten to that point as an industry that we’re, again, we’re not arguing the, the value too much anymore. That’s good. It’s more about finding the solution for the right, at the right time. Pre-repower, do we do it pro- post-repower? You know, those questions are being asked. Um, you know, it makes more sense potentially, if you will repower in a year, to put that in that budget. Um, so we’re seeing lots of that activity, especially as the lead up to this July 4th, uh, sa- uh, start a construction repower- Right … cliff.  Allen Hall: Yeah. Are, are you getting a lot of inquiries about that? Like, we wanna book a contract, try to get before that July date? Gio Scialdone: Yeah, look, one of the interesting things is, you know, to qualify for the PTC by [00:11:00] July 4th, you need to start construction.  Allen Hall: That’s right.  Gio Scialdone: Um, or, and you can do that in a couple different ways, right? Right. And we are having customers who are using our lifts as a start of physical work on site.  Allen Hall: Oh,  Gio Scialdone: that’s so smart. So they’re installing lifts- To start that process and show a continuous effort on site. It’s on-site work. Yes, it is. Uh, we have, you know, pri- uh, PWA, prevailing wage apprentice- Right … qualified- Sure … technicians in our program, if that’s something that’s required- Yeah … which a lot of times it is- It is nowadays on these, a lot of these sites. So, um, yeah, we’re offering both of those things to customers. It is an interpretation. There are some customers who aren’t, um, but, but there are, there are those that, that do see the lift as a great tool for them to start that, that clock.  Allen Hall: Right. So- Because the parts are there, you’re ready to go. You can get them- Yeah … installed and- Yeah … unlike other components of a wind turbine- That might  Gio Scialdone: have longer lead time …  Allen Hall: that will have longer lead times. Right. If you’re doing main bearings or something of that sort- Right … it’s gonna be several months before you get those assets on site and can [00:12:00] start working them. Gio Scialdone: Yeah. And you’ve got three months until July 4th,  Allen Hall: right? Right. You gotta go.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah, you gotta go.  Allen Hall: Right. And that- You gotta go … I think that’s, that’s the key to all this. Yeah. Boy, that, that’s genius. I’m, I’m glad that people- … are thinking outside the box.  Gio Scialdone: We are too. Our customers are creative.  Allen Hall: Yeah.  Gio Scialdone: And that’s good. We’re happy to support that, at times.  Allen Hall: So there’s, there’s some new technology at 3S in- involving evacuation and- Yeah … you know, the, one of the most, uh, critical pieces of being a technician is working safe, but occasionally things happen. Mm-hmm. And there’s a lot of ways to get technicians from the nacelle downtower. Some of them involve tossing them over side and roping them down, which can be kind of extreme, honestly. Mm-hmm. And a, a lot of technicians do get hurt in not necessarily life-threatening ways- Right … but in ways where it makes it really hard to kind of get them up and down- Safely, yeah … the, the tower safely, right. So 3S has been thinking about this for a while, and now you have a, a new product.  Gio Scialdone: We do. We have a rescue stretcher, uh, which has been in development for about a year or [00:13:00] so. We’ve tested it in the field. Um, yeah, the, the climb onto system with all its functions, uh, has not been a rescue system. Right. Right? Um, so what, what we’ve been doing is if, if there is an incident in the tower, you’re utilizing a, a, a, one of the many rescue devices that are in the industry. Sure. Now, w- with the stretcher, uh, this is a, a device that attaches to the ClimbAuto System and uses the ClimbAuto System to safely bring the person down. Um, it can be installed by, with one, uh, rescuer. So one person can fix this to the rail. It has pulley, uh, systems to bring the person up onto and attached to the ClimbAuto System, and then send down. Now, so then you’re, you’re, you’re immobilized, right? So we secure your head, your feet, your body. Um, and to your point earlier, yes, it’s in, in the event that an injury occurs [00:14:00] and you have, let’s call it some time, 10 to 15 minutes of setup time, ’cause that’s what it will take- Sure then this is a great product. And the idea would be, you know, one per truck, similar to a rescue device. Um, you know, and then, you know, you can, can get it up and down the tower pretty easily. It’s, it’s light. It, the package is like a, it’s like a tent bag. It folds up into, like, a bag of a tent, if you picture that. Um, it maybe weighs, like, 15 pounds. It’s quite light. Oh, that’s good. Yep, yep. You know, ’cause there’s no long rope, right? So there’s no, like, hundred-meter rope that you need, which is the, the heavy stuff. Right. Um, and, you know, so you’re using the lift. So the, the weight of the, the system, the stretcher itself, is quite light. So we’re excited. We’ve got a few customers that have demoed it. And, uh, yeah, we’re, we’re, we’re looking to continue to improve the, the, the, the features that we offer. Well,  Allen Hall: yeah. If, if there’s 30,000 ClimbAuto Systems out there- Mm … there should be these rescue kits along in the trucks- Yeah … because you just don’t know. Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: Right? And guys get hurt.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: They [00:15:00] dislocate their shoulders. They’re dislocating their knees. Yeah. It, it’s a hard task. It is. Uh, you used to climb and do that job. It is. You know that- It is … there’s, there’s things that happen uptower that it makes it hard to get down.  Gio Scialdone: You know, I remember doing some training w- where a lot, I mean, we all have, at some point, maybe done some rescue training and, you know, if you’re in a traditional uh, auto descent or sort of rescue device, you may be banging against the tower wall or the ladder- Yep potentially causing further injury. The benefit of this system is, is that, you know, you’re stable on the lift as you go down. Um, so yeah, it’s a little, um… We, we feel is gonna be helpful f- for the sites that have, for sure, climb auto systems, and again- … it’ll take some training.  Allen Hall: Sure.  Gio Scialdone: Right? Sure. It’ll take some training to, to… Just like any, any rescue device will take. Um, but we, we see some value in the future that, again, it’s adding… It’s another tool, uh, for customers- Yeah … to consider to keep their people safer.  Allen Hall: Yeah.  Gio Scialdone: You know? So.  Allen Hall: I, I, I- Yeah. I see a lot more operators now being very proactive about safety.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: And if I can have a simple tool- Yeah that [00:16:00] makes life easier just in case, ’cause things happen, and you wanna be ready for it, something in, in the back of the truck makes infinite sense and is a, a smart way to handle it. Because the thing about tower heights today, we’re above 100 meters on a lot of towers.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: And that’s a long way to get lifted down. Speaker: That’s  Gio Scialdone: true. Yeah. That’s a, it’s a… And, and, you know, and if you’re in a condition, a wind condition where it-  Allen Hall: Which is where these  Gio Scialdone: turbines  Allen Hall: are,  Gio Scialdone: yeah … towers sway, yeah. Then, then it’s- It’s- … even harder and need multiple people. You know, so again, in these remote areas where more and more turbines are being located as new construction, m- way more remote, uh, y- your, your, the next team of two technicians may be a, an hour away. Probably, yes. Right? Worst case, it could be an hour away. Yeah. Oh,  Allen Hall: yeah.  Gio Scialdone: And so as a team of two, you know, to be able to rescue you and safely bring you down, it could be critical. It could be critical. It  Allen Hall: will be.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah. Yeah, because there’s not gonna be a third or fourth person to come assist us  Allen Hall: for an hour,  Gio Scialdone: you know? So yeah, it’s an exciting… You know, [00:17:00] we, we’re, we’re trying to do, you know, uh, add-ons to the product to, uh, you know… We, we’ve modified some things over the years. We’ve got a new battery kit style, uh, to improve functionality. Clip-on battery as opposed to a plug-in. Um, you know, we’ve added a lot of different safety features over the years, like, um, uh, simultaneous handle switches. Right, yeah. So, you know, we’re, we’re trying to avoid, uh, a misuse of, of, uh, one hand at a time or no hands. Um, so there’s, there’s lots of features that we have, uh, added and also are able to, when we go service these t- towers- Bring the add-on at no cost if we’re performing the service for the customer. So we’re gonna upgrade your software, so to speak- Sure to the newest and latest, greatest software, um, so that, you know, you can be safer than, than you were maybe a few years ago.  Allen Hall: Oh, yeah. But that’s why you buy a 3S Climboto system. Ouch. Is because you know that those upgrades are coming. Yeah. And they’re- Yeah. You guys are not sitting still. You don’t have- No you hadn’t device- No … [00:18:00] created a device 10 years ago and haven’t changed it. Yeah. It’s evolved every single year- It has … that I’ve talked to you. Yeah. And every single year it’s safer, more reliable- Yeah … does more features, and the technicians love it.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah.  Allen Hall: Absolutely love it.  Gio Scialdone: I credit our, you know, our company is, is… This is our, this is our, uh, our passion, right? So, like, we’ve, we’ve been in this business for, for 20-plus years. In the US, we’ve been in it for nine and, you know, we’re not, we’re, we’re not going anywhere. No. You know, notwithstanding, um, uh, any, any, any political issues, we’re gonna ride through, so, so is everybody here, you know? Sure. Yeah. We’re, we’re, we’re in this and, you know, our mindset is, again, to eliminate climbing and, and do the best we can to keep people safer and have turbines run more efficiently.  Allen Hall: So if you’re an operator or a wind farm asset manager or site supervisor- Yeah … at a, at a wind farm and you don’t have the Climboto system yet Who do you call? Where do you go to get started?  Gio Scialdone: Yeah, you can, you can definitely get us on the [00:19:00]website. You know, there’s a Get Info button that still goes directly to me if you’re gonna say, “Hey, can I get a quote on this?” So, you know, we’ve got five salespeople. Uh, you can certainly ask your management team because there’s a l- strong likelihood that we’ve been in touch with them. We, we visit sites. You know, we visited 200 sites last year. So our… We’re out. We, we… You know, if, uh, if we haven’t visited you, let us know. But, um, you know, yeah, you can definitely reach us on, on the web or, uh, you know, we’ve got a phone number as well on there, so.  Allen Hall: Yeah, it’s easy to reach out. Yeah. Just look up 3S Lift. Climb Model System’s another quick way, and if you Google that you’ll get to the 3S Lift website, and you can find all the cool features, and, and the new devices, and you can find your parts and everything you want right there. It’s, it’s amazing the growth and, and the, and the, uh, adoption of that system. It’s, it’s great to hear. It’s one of those things that when it’s a real success story. Yeah. And I, I know you’re, you’re really close to it of course.  Gio Scialdone: Yeah, I know.  Allen Hall: Yeah. But from the outside looking in, it’s [00:20:00] amazing.  Gio Scialdone: We’re proud of  Allen Hall: the team. 500 turbines to 3,000, that’s a lot.  Gio Scialdone: It is. We’re proud of the team. I’m, I’m grateful to the customer base that, that have seen this, this value, you know, and recognize it. Um, and you know, not only for the soft sell, that it helps people and the morale, and, you know, there is a, a, a, a harder to measure injury improvement factor.  Allen Hall: Yeah.  Gio Scialdone: Um, but, but there’s absolutely some objective measures. We have sites that before the lifts were installed were at 95% availability, and now they’re at 96.2. Now, correlation and causation aren’t the same thing, but we, we believe, and we means the industry I think at this point, especially to see competitors come in, I think that further, uh, drives home the idea that this is the right thing to do, to stop climbing and, and help your t- technicians be more efficient, effective. So yeah, we’re, we’re proud of it and, um, you know, we’re looking forward to being here for another nine years.  Allen Hall: Absolutely. Yeah. Gio, so good to see you. Congratulations on everything. Thanks, Allen. And yeah, [00:21:00] good luck this year. I know you’re gonna have a l- a lot more growth, so- Thanks … congratulations. Gio Scialdone: Appreciate the time.

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This episode is all about the capacity of your practice — what's on your mind for growth, as well as components in your practice that might surprise you in boosting your production. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiff (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. Like we say every single time, we truly, truly do love podcasting and we love what we do. I think getting into it, ⁓ Dana and I, we just spent some time figuring out what this podcast was going to mean and how we were gonna take it. So sometimes it can be like a little daunting, I feel like. But once we get started, ⁓ I think it just flows and and we love it. So, Dana, thank you for workshopping this title and this   project with us today and how are you doing? It's like full blown summer in Arizona. ⁓ it's hot and it's beautiful. And I know we chatted last week and I said are sports done and I was like, yeah, that's right. Sports are never done. So Dana, how are you? How's life down there in the Tucson area?   DAT-Dana (00:48) It's doing really good. Like you said, summer's in full swing, so sunshine's out, kids are, yep, back at sports. ⁓ I just feel like I don't know. I am a su I always say I'm like a lizard. I like to soak up the Arizona sunshine, but I do feel like as the older I get, sometimes these summers get a little bit more brutal every year.   Tiff (01:07) I   agree. I keep saying, is it actually is it getting hotter? Is it getting harder? Or am I getting older and less tolerant? Because I'm the same. I'm a lizard. My ⁓ my family calls me the the lizard because I we even went to the pool yesterday and I was like, no, I don't wanna actually be in the water. Like I just want to be in the sun, feeling it on my body. It makes me feel good. But I'm the same way that I'm like I'm just I'm getting so much less tolerant. I really do think that Yeah. Yeah. I know.   DAT-Dana (01:25) And so.   Yeah. Yeah. fun fine.   Tiff (01:36) I know. Well,   today's content I think ⁓ I'm excited about. Like I said, we workshopped it and I think we came up with some really solid solid pieces here because I think this is something, especially at this time of year, actually, that a lot of doctors and practice owners, one, you get that like itch mid year that you're like, Am I doing enough? Do I need to do something else? And then we see a lot of doctors kind of like sideswipe their team and really just undercut and be like, We're adding something different or we're changing everything up or   Whatever. ⁓ and also at this time of the year, I know for us, at least with our clients, it's a time of year that we really start thinking about next year. I know that seems kind of wild, but that like June, July, August, September timeframe, we're really starting to project, okay, what's left of this year, how are we going to make those goals and exceed those goals? And then what is that gonna roll into for the following year? So this kind of subject that we have today, this this chat, I think falls right into that. And what we want to chat through is capacity.   I love that word. I love the word capacity because it can mean so many different things. I think there's like capacity of our mind. And I talk with with practices in Dana, I know you do too of capacity for team members a lot. Like what is their capacity and not just their time capacity and what they're able to do, but also like their brains, right? How much, how much pivoting can they do in one day? How much how much different subjects can they take on in one day? And what's that capacity? But really today I want to chat capacity of your   Practice and your numbers. And Dana, you spoke really eloquently about this a second ago. And I want to I want to bring that back around to the capacity of the practice because I think first and foremost, when a practice owner thinks about growth, they think, okay, I need more operatories. I need a second practice. And I need, I need, I need. And it's like, yeah, we sometimes we do have to invest to recoup.   benefits, right? So we do have to invest and we have to we have to grow the physical space. ⁓ and I and I think for so long in dentistry it was like how many practices do you have like the first question people asked and how big is your practice? What's your revenue? How many patients do you have? And those questions still swim around and it can make a practice owner feel like they're reaching and grasping for something that they're not even really sure that they want yet. And I know Dana you've seen that too and something that I love watching   our team work with their practices in is really growing within the capacity of the the physical capacity that they have within their practice without having to make that initial investment. But also Dana, I've watched you like grow into that. So projecting and saying, cool, then at this point or in one year, in two years, in three years, this is the capacity, the physical capacity that we want to get to. So I want to really dispel the fact that capacity means we have to   actually grow the physical space because I think Dana there's so much to be grown within the space that we have. And I want to talk through those pieces so that a lot of our listeners here today might pick up something that they're like, gosh, I never thought about that or ⁓ I forgot to do that. There's a lot of those, I forgot to do that piece. So when a doctor comes to you, Dana, and they're like, Dana, I need to grow but I have no more hours. I have   I'm tapped, I don't know what to do. What are some of the first places as a dental consultant that you look at with those practices?   DAT-Dana (05:03) Yeah, I think a couple things. I think that I look at like how comprehensive are we treating the patients within your practice? So are there things that we're letting walk out the door that we are skilled and know how to do that we can keep within the practice, which helps us, I think, just more comprehensively treat patients, which naturally will grow production.   ⁓ I love that you said yes, we're at maximum hours, but I do think that's always a place to look before you look at more space, before you look at expanding. Can you just add hours somewhere? and oftentimes those early morning, those evening hours, patients really, really like too. So we feel like those can stay full. I also will look at insurance participation. Can we change insurance participation and again be able to maybe even lessen our capacity but keep growing our practice with patients?   who align a little bit more with what we're looking for as far as like patient avatar ideal patient.   Tiff (06:00) Yeah, I love that I have a lot of practices that are doing that right now in this like June, July, August timeframe. So that in September, October, we can start at least sending those letters that say, Hey, will you increase our fee schedules? Because there are so many that are out of line. And I think that's a huge discussion ⁓ that's been going around really for the last like two to three years. But I think very, very soon it's not even gonna be a discussion anymore. It's just gonna be a thing of the past. So we are approaching that, I think.   You're totally spot on the fee schedules, fee schedule analysis too for your practice. And I think, Dana, understanding I have a practice I understand that you can do this at any point. You can analyze your fees, you can request fee schedule increases. It doesn't depend on your contract with the insurance company. Just request those fee schedule increases because the worst that they can do is say no. And then you evaluate your contract obligations with them and what you want to do for your practice. We get so scared of like, well,   When can we? It's like they're they don't actually tell you. You just do it. You just do it and then they tell you yes or no. I have a practice that actually increases their fees ⁓ during the summer. And so a lot of practices will wait and they're like, it needs to be January because that's like a fresh start. And I think for me, Dana, it makes me think of like I'll start my diet on Monday. ⁓ no, it's fine, I'll just I'll do it on Monday. And then we get to like December, January, and they're like, Well, wait, we didn't tell the patients yet. And then they hold back, they hold back, and then it's a whole nother year again.   before we do fee schedule increases. And it just doesn't have to be that dramatic. And that can significantly increase the dollar amounts coming in, which is ultimately our end goal, right? And I think it's like in dentistry it's hard because we're healthcare professionals. So focusing in on those dollars and being like, gosh, you know, charging $1200 for an implant   seems crazy because we came from a spot where we were charging six forty two not that long ago, right? It feels like not that long ago in dentistry dentistry is so progressive and it changes so constantly. We have to stay up on on our fees and we have to stay up on the times where dental insurance doesn't do that. It can hold us back from making sure that we're increasing those fees to where they should be and that we're you guys are making the   the dollar amounts, the overhead structure that you want to and that you should. So making sure that you're looking at those is massive. And then Dana, you also said that the patient avatar, and I have I have some the clients that have, gosh, like thousands upon thousands upon thousands of patients and evaluating the actual patient base. So active patient base is, you know, whomever's been seen within the last 18 months. And then looking at are those patients even our ideal   avatar. I've had clients that have had to basically dismiss patients because their patient base was too clean. So it was like we either we either keep clean patients and don't have dentistry to do or we reevaluate our patient base and start restructuring for the structure that we actually want to do. And that for you, Dana, I think was kind of twofold because you said the patient avatar and then you also said the dentistry like that we want to do and that things that we can keep   in the practice. So what have you seen with your your clients when they do that patient avatar and they're like, gosh, actually this is the ideal patient. This is my patient demographic, because it can't we can't live in the middle of I don't know, retirement community and be like, we're gonna do Botox, the whole like we're gonna do all the Botox, right? We've got to make sure that we're dealing with the patients that we also have. So what do you see as far as capacity and being able to grow financially?   within those constraints.   DAT-Dana (09:42) Yeah.   I think that it it like you said, it like the creating your ideal patient allows you to kind of see, like, are you serving the people in the community that you want to be serving? And are you doing the type of dentistry that one they need and two that also you like to be doing? And sometimes those things can be, you know, you have to figure out how they work within the community that you have if it's the dentistry that you love. But I think taking a look at your patient avatar allows you to see, like, are we currently serving the patients who like really   align with what we're looking for in our practice. And when you don't, right, then you can start to say, hey, okay, let's put some systems in place. Just try to get our patient base a little bit more aligned with what we like to do as far as the type of dentistry. And to just like the patients that we feel like we best serve and we can best impact. And I think when you start to do these things, I always say, yeah, we've we get to a point in our patient base where patients get healthy. And it might not be all of our patient base, but certainly some of our patient base. That's the goal of recares, right?   We have recare patients, we bring them back, they continue to occasionally have things pop up, but for the most part, we've gotten them steady and stable. And then I think then it's the next layer. Okay, they're steady and stable, but do they love their smile? And if they don't love their smile, what do you have in your toolbox, right? That can help do that next layer. I think sometimes we get into like, hey, you know, I am getting a lot of new patients, but they're just healthy patients, right? They've been seen every six months. That doesn't mean there's nothing we can do for them. And sometimes creating your patient avatar and   Tiff (10:55) Yeah.   DAT-Dana (11:12) looking at your services helps expand like your way of thinking and the things that you can do for them to continue honestly and truly to continue doing dentistry on either your patient base or we've got to make a switch, right? And we've got to start to transition some of our patient base so that it is more ideal.   Tiff (11:24) Yeah.   Yeah, I love that. So something to consider as we were talking, I was thinking about like metrics and the metrics that we like to utilize within our ⁓ consulting to really help be able to account for capacity, right? Actual physical space capacity and patient patient-based capacity. And something we love to do is to consider the number of patients per hygiene day.   Now this can get a little confusing because you think just day of the week, right? There's seven days of the week. There's typically five days that are worthy of being open. ⁓ sometimes six if you're Saturday, and most of you are probably four days a week. Well, within those four days, you could have exponential amounts of hygiene days. So if Monday you've got three hygienists, that's three hygiene days. So per hygiene day per week, we really want to see 200 hygiene.   Active patients per hygiene day. So if on Monday you've got three hygienists working the full day, that's 600 active patients per that day. So you multiply that by every day of the week, and that tells you how many recare patients we tip we like easy numbers. You guys, 200 is an easy number. We love that. So we typically are going to use some formula to that capacity that will tell us how many active patients per hygiene day you should have.   And if you reverse engineer that, Dana, I love this because it tells us the capacity of our hygiene department, meaning, do we need more hygienists? Because doctors are always like, Do I should I want to hire? It's hard to hire. I've got a hygienist on the books, or I think I have I need more hygiene hours. I'm booked out this far. And honestly and truly, I feel like when we wait for that space where we're like, gosh, I'm at capacity, I can't fit any more patients, I'm booked out too far. That's when we're scrambling and trying to fix the space issue. And we get into this like frenzy.   Whereas if we're watching our our hygiene numbers, we're watching our active patient count and our new patients plus attrition, we can see what our capacity is going to be and we can better project when do I need to hire another hygienist and do I have the space for that? So if you if you work those numbers, you can start to see, okay, I have enough patients in my patient base right now to supply X amount of hygienists with X amount of working days. Now, given my   new patient count coming in and my attrition meaning how many am I losing on the back end, which should be very, very, very small. You guys, it should be patients moving or losing patients. I'm not gonna say why. you guys can understand. I don't like saying that. They just they're gone. So they didn't leave us for another dental practice. They moved away somewhere. ⁓ So that's your attrition. But taking those into consideration you can start to do the math and see okay with this new patient inflow,   I'm getting a positive net of new patients of X per month. This is how long it's gonna be that I'm gonna need another hygienist. So then Dana, I would say like probably two months ahead of that ish, maybe three, start looking for a hygienist. It's starting to get like finding an associate dentist anymore. So two to three months ahead of when you might need them, I would really start projecting and looking at.   hiring them. Now capacity-wise, Dana, that slides into, okay, this doctor that's listening now is like, cool, well, my I don't have an operatory. Okay, great. Well, now we look at some other options. And Dana, when there's ⁓ an option and not an option of another operatory, what do you like to look at for when you do ⁓ add in those hygienists for capacity wise?   DAT-Dana (15:04) Yeah. I think it is. It comes to are there days that we can add? Are there hours that we can add anywhere to be able to serve the patients? And again, I mean, yes, we're getting new patients in this scenario, but sometimes it's just to serve the patients who've been with the practice, right? Or just our recare patients. So how can we manipulate hours? How can we manipulate days? Is there any room anywhere ⁓ to be able to   see more patients within the allotted space. And you know, I will say I've got a practice in on the East Coast and it's just a three operatory practice, right? So we're constantly, constantly trying to game plan this capacity thing because there is no room for expansion. There is no and like they love the location. They and so we do you have to get a little bit creative. And sometimes it means like we do have a part-time hygienist that comes in on Saturdays. We do have a part-time hygienist that comes in on Fridays. We do we've expanded hours, we've done some kind   Tiff (15:38) yeah.   DAT-Dana (15:58) of   like split shift. And ⁓ again, I know sometimes offices hesitate with that, but like honestly and truly just ask your team, right? Your team will tell you like what they're willing and what they're not willing to do. And sometimes you'll be surprised how even manipulating shifts actually helps team members in their personal lives, right? We have those moms that maybe want to drop their kids off at school in the morning. So not starting until 10 is great for them. Right. And so until we have these conversations with team and we look at all these avenues and all the doors that we could open   the levers that we could pull to really be able to continue to grow even if we are at max capacity. I think that there are a number of things to look at before having to find a new building or add a second location or ⁓ those types of things. And so it can be a mix of changing hours, it can be a mix of adding providers, it can be a mix of adding days, all the things before it has to go to that point.   Tiff (16:41) Mm.   Yeah. That was a great ⁓ that was a great visual. The office, the three pr the three op practice. I definitely have I have one that's a four op and three hygienists. ⁓ so I I totally agree. And I love also in your mix there, you're talking about like adding hours and working. I they added hours there they're expanding by hours, but also something that I love doing is that smart scheduling.   Right. Block scheduling is wonderful. I know other people who love it. There are people who hate it. There are people who don't understand it. But block scheduling can truly, truly make it so that you can see your capacity so you can better schedule for one, but then also better prep and better like move forward. Something that I love doing is really looking at when you've got a smaller operator when you have 11 and you're like, I need the twelfth. You're like, cool, that's fine too. Take a day, look at your schedule and say, Okay, maybe on Wednesdays.   My doctor's gonna do like heavy, heavier appointments on doctor side. So we've got, you know, high production, high value production all day. Maybe there's some assistant driven stuff so they can still do some exams, but then I've got a hygienist that's running just SRPs. So like Wednesday is she's in doctor's operatory. So doc loses an operatory, doc is doing heavy in one column, doc loses an operatory, and I've got heavy SRPs. So we're not losing the production.   We're gaining the production and able to do the recares on the other days so that we can project out or Fridays. I have a lot of hygienists that will do that'll love to come in on a half day on Friday for like four hours and just bust out SRPs because back-to-back SRPs is hard, but it's when you've got a half a day of it, it's kind of like quick, easy production, get it done, and it makes it more valuable coming in for on a Friday. Yeah. And   Outside of that, so not even outside of that, I would say all of this combined. If your fee schedules are in alignment, if you know your capacity of your patient base, meaning how many patients do you have, how many hygienists do you need for that, how many doctors do you need for that, the capacity of your time, right? How how long are you working and are you being super effective and efficient within those hours? I've seen a lot of doctors as well. This is something we haven't mentioned yet. I did mention like block scheduling and eff efficient scheduling and hygiene.   But I've also seen a lot of doctors that are like willy-nilly doing a couple fillings here and there or the the front office ⁓ scheduling team is really just scheduling them to fill the schedule so there's no white space. I but it's not effective scheduling. And so we're really not producing what we should be, but we're also not using our chair time effectively. So when we have those smaller appointments, we're turning that room over so much. And if you think about it, Dana, I'm like, gosh, there's ten minutes at the beginning minimum.   DAT-Dana (19:23) I see.   Tiff (19:47) 10 minutes at the end minimum that an assistant is turning over that room. And so we're losing 20 minutes every appointment that's non-productive time. And within that, if we've got filling, filling, filling, filling, filling, and docs having to get up to go do exams, our our filling appointment, our filling appointment is longer because he, she has to get up and go do exams. Plus, we're losing that turnover time every single time. So if we can   utilize something like blocked scheduling or smart scheduling, however you want to do it, to not back to back to back the little appointments. They're gonna happen. I'm not saying overdiagnose and over-treat to not have little appointments. I'm saying let's butt those up against longer appointments so we're not losing that time. Is that something that you often see Dana within that with your with your client base of really restructuring the schedule to get the capacity up.   DAT-Dana (20:40) Yeah, I do. And and I usually will tackle it from like that's when we actually feel the capacity restraint, right? That's when it's like, my gosh, we're so burnt out and we're so and sometimes it is like, hey, can we schedule a little bit better so that like yes, we can value our time, we can make our time more efficient. And I always joke around with practices and say, can I get you to goal with 31 surface fillings? Yes, but can I get you there with three crowns? And doesn't that feel different?   Tiff (20:46) Mm.   DAT-Dana (21:06) Right. So I also think it's like how much we feel our capacity, right? Because that is so many more check-ins and checkouts and insurance verifications and like the workload just like duplicates and replicates for everybody on the team. And just like you said, then doctor having to get up and and you know, all that room turnover that happens with   Tiff (21:06) Yeah.   Yeah.   DAT-Dana (21:25) The clinical team. So I do feel like when you schedule strategically too, it helps you not feel the capacity restraints as well as allows you to be super efficient with your time and making sure that we're using like every 10 minutes we have within the day to be able to take care of patients.   Tiff (21:43) Yeah, I totally agree. I have a practice that just last week, ⁓ one of the doctors was like, I'm over this. I'm done. I'm I'm burnt out. And like we're over here trying to like untangle ⁓ financial stuff and and we're trying to untangle front office overload work overload and get things ⁓ efficient in both those areas and understood and do all of these like willy nilly appointments and anyways, yes. It it was like that was the breaking point was the   capacity and feeling like something's gotta give. Well, it's probably within your scheduling. I completely agree. And I feel that way too. If I if I overload my personal schedule or my work schedule and I've got too much going on and they're like, gosh, like these little tiny errands or calls, if I do my 30 minute coaching calls back to back for an entire day, I am exhausted at the end of the day compared to if I can get a couple of big chunked hour coaching calls in between those 30 minutes, I'm much more productive.   And I feel so much better at the end of the day. And it makes me think how lucky I am that I have been in dentistry for as long as I have been. And then I'm able to look at a schedule and really, really create a productive schedule for myself. So I love it, Dana. I I think action item-wise, ⁓ whether you're feeling capacity or not, I would constantly evaluate this area because the worst thing in my mind that I do for myself is wait until I'm burnt out to look at my capacity.   To wait until I'm burnt out to say something's got to give on my schedule. I really like looking at my schedule ahead and being like, that's gonna suck. Let me restructure, let me figure something out. Or like we do it too with our calls. You know, how many calls do we have? What does that look like? How can we get that done within the capacity of our timing? So I would say don't wait until it hurts to fix it. Make sure that you've got it ahead of time so that you cut the capacity doesn't burn you out. So   Evaluating the number of active patients you have, evaluating what you will have given your new patient influx and your attrition. Also, I really, really strongly advise ⁓ reactivation campaigns so that you're grasping a lot of the people who maybe attritioned out before. Your hygiene team, I think, will love you for that. Dana can Dana can do a whole podcast on not forgetting about our recare patients and the patients we already have. That is one hygiene 101. So make sure you're doing your patients right.   so evaluating your patient base, making sure you know what you have, what you're going to need, and evaluating your schedule. So before you even add hours, before you add days, look at are you being the most efficient and effective with the time that you have? Don't take more time away. ⁓ be super effective and efficient with the time that you have and be ⁓ collecting the fees. One, be collecting the fees you're already charging. So look at your AR. Two, charge.   what you deserve and collect the fees that you should be and then look at opening hours, opening days, and then look at opening more space in your practice is how I would recommend looking at that before jumping straight into more, more, more, bigger, bigger, better. And I think Dana, we are getting to the point of life where we're understanding bigger isn't always better. I love it. Awesome.   DAT-Dana (25:03) Yep, agreed.   Tiff (25:05) Hey Dana, thank you so much for this podcast today. This was fun. I'm glad we workshopped it ahead of time. I loved your ideas. ⁓ and everyone, thank you for listening. Drop us a five star review below. We love to hear your ideas, and that is an absolutely perfect place to put them. People read them. don't forget to subscribe and download these so that you'll always have them and you can go back. So when you're here driving, which I know many of you are, you can go back and listen to all those tidbits that   Dana dropped for you today. And Hello@TheDentalATeam.com is the easiest place to reach us. And we'll catch you next time. Thank you guys.  

DJ et organisatrice d'événements depuis plus de 4 ans à Paris, MøMø façonne au fil du temps un univers artistique singulier, porté par des rencontres et des talents qui l'inspirent. Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

We are so in agreement over how great 1993s "Dazed and Confused" is that this episode probably holds the record for most on-mic "Mm-hmm"s! For the sake of making it interesting, we sprinkled in some light debates over what town this probably takes place in, how old creepy Matthew McConaughey (his character) is supposed to be, and who are the most worthy Prom King and Queen... but on that last one we still see the appeal of each other's picks. We just keep it real mellow, man.

Adam & Jared in Wisconsin bring you this flavorful episode! The fellas catch up on the last couple months of fishing and golf season and how the boys have been producing. We then discuss the new proposed law in Oregon that would quite literally decimate Oregon's incredible outdoors economy. Before we get into the meat Adam shares a banger for this week's perfect song. In the meat, Mm!, we play a rousing game of THIS or THAT put together by Big E. Some all-time meat discussion and laughs ensue! We also do a ranking of Nicholas Cage movies in honor of America 250! We close the show with a cold treat after a long day outside in the sun. Hut Hut! Love y'all. 

本集邀請 JC 財經觀點 Jenny 與研究員 Ralice 拆解當前是「修估值」還是長線趨勢出現變化 ? 從 Oracle 與 Broadcom 財報切入，延伸到記憶體降規疑慮、AI 五層蛋糕投資地圖。同步聚焦最新 CPI 和就業數據，及新任主席上任後的聯準會政策變化。 最後也深入聊到 SpaceX IPO、xAI 併入後的算力版圖、Anthropic 與 OpenAI 的上市期待，帶你掌握 AI、總經與 IPO 狂潮交錯下的波動行情。

On the #amwriting podcast's “Margin Notes,” Jennie Nash talks with Dr. Diana Hill (author of Wise Effort) about how the urge to prove yourself—through resumes, accolades, or “pre-order my book” pleas—undermines authenticity and connection, especially when pitching ideas, proposals, or personal brands. Hill describes confronting this while rebranding her website and shifting from listing credentials to articulating the real user experience and who the work is and isn't for, using specific language that reflects her core value of awareness/attunement rather than generic, AI-like claims. They unpack the psychology behind proving (seeking safety, belonging, and autonomy) and suggest asking which need is driving the behavior, aiming instead to demonstrate value, embrace vulnerability, and rely on trusted “tough love” feedback.Books Mentioned* Wise Effort by Dr. Diana HillJoin the Blueprint Summer ChallengeStarting a book? Stuck in a draft? Planning a revision?The Blueprint Summer Challenge is designed to help you make meaningful progress on your manuscript this summer.Over six weeks, beginning July 10, you'll use the Blueprint—a proven framework for developing stronger books with greater clarity, purpose, and reader impact—to move your project forward, wherever you are in the process.Whether you're writing nonfiction, memoir, fiction, or another genre entirely, the goal is simple: spend six focused weeks making your book stronger.Start with the Blueprint CourseWe're offering an all-new Blueprint course in Teachable, which includes:* The full text of The Blueprint* Fourteen video lessons covering every step of the framework* Real coaching examples that show writers applying the Blueprint to their own projects* Practical guidance you can use immediatelyThe course is designed to help you develop a stronger foundation for your book—whether you're beginning from a blank page, working through a draft, or planning a revision.Course enrollment: $19

Moments come and go but the feelings will carry you to the top and once you're at the top that moment will last forever! Click here for the MM donation link: https://checkout.square.site/merchant/D135FAXVEN2D7/checkout/Y67QJUO2WKX5JDCDGENK7UPU?src=sheet

In Episode 496 of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb open with a rich discussion on the theology of congregational singing — including the Trinity Psalter Hymnal, the Getty's Sing!, and why psalm-singing belongs at the heart of Christian worship. The main event, however, is the first installment of their study of the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:14–30). Tony and Jesse argue that this parable is widely misread as a lesson in personal productivity or spiritual gift deployment, when in fact its center of gravity is entirely eschatological and theological: the wicked servant's failure is not financial incompetence — it is a catastrophic misunderstanding of who the master is, and therefore, who he himself is as a servant of that master. Key Takeaways The parable is eschatological, not motivational. Situated in Matthew 25 as the second of three eschatological parables in the Olivet Discourse, the Parable of the Talents answers the disciples' question about the sign of Christ's coming — not a general lesson about using your abilities for God. "Talents" refers to an enormous monetary sum, not personal giftedness. A single talent represented roughly 20 years of a laborer's wages. Even the least-endowed servant received an immense, unearned gift — which makes the wicked servant's inaction all the more indefensible. The wicked servant's problem is theological, not financial. He doesn't bury the talent out of ignorance or fear alone — he actively mischaracterizes the master as exploitative and unjust. His failure is a failure of theology: he does not know who his master is. The commendation "Well done, good and faithful servant" is the basic reward of every believer, not a tiered prize for the most productive. The five-talent and two-talent servants receive identical commendations, suggesting the measure is proportional faithfulness, not absolute output. Faithful stewardship is active, not passive. Both faithful servants are marked by immediacy and energetic engagement. The parable does not explain how they doubled their talents because the mechanics are not the point — their disposition of active, risk-taking faithfulness is. The parable resists works-righteousness readings. Whether one is Augustine or an anonymous deathbed convert, every justified believer enters into the same joy of the master. The parable is not a theology of graduated heavenly rewards but a distinction between those who understand their master and those who do not. The talents represent the stewardship of the Gospel and the Kingdom itself. The master entrusting his servants with his property is a picture of Christ entrusting the church with the message of salvation — ownership remains with the master, the servants are stewards, not proprietors. Key Concepts The Wicked Servant's Problem Is Who He Thinks the Master Is The most common misreading of this parable locates the wicked servant's failure in laziness or timidity — he was simply too afraid to act. But Tony Arsenal argues compellingly that the servant's own words expose something far more serious. He says, "I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow." This is not a confession of fear; it is an accusation. The servant has constructed a theology of his master as an exploitative, unjust overseer who doesn't deserve a return. What he catastrophically misses is that the very possession of 20 years' worth of wages — an unearned, unimaginable gift — is the master sowing into him. His refusal to act is, at its root, a refusal to acknowledge the master's generosity and authority. This is the parable's most penetrating theological edge. "Well Done" Is for Every Believer, Not Just the Most Productive One of the episode's most pastorally significant observations is Tony's argument that the commendation "Well done, good and faithful servant — enter into the joy of your master" is not reserved for spiritual high-achievers. Because the five-talent and two-talent servants receive word-for-word identical commendations despite wildly different absolute returns, the logical entailment is that the one-talent servant, had he been faithful, would have received the same words. This means the commendation is not calibrated to productivity — it is the basic inheritance of every believer who enters glory. The soul-winner and the deathbed convert, Augustine and the unknown faithful, all hear the same welcome. The parable is therefore not teaching a graduated hierarchy of heavenly reward, but a binary distinction: those who know their master and act accordingly, and those who do not. The Parable Cannot Be Detached from Its Eschatological Context Jesse Schwamb is careful to anchor the parable in its literary and theological context: this is the second of three eschatological parables in Matthew 25, all part of the Olivet Discourse, all delivered in direct response to the disciples' question about the sign of Christ's return and the end of the age. Detaching the Parable of the Talents from that frame — and reading it instead as a general productivity principle or a theology of spiritual gifts — drains it of what Jesse calls its "gravity." The master going away and returning after a long time is a direct image of the ascended Christ and his parousia. The servants' task during the interval is not self-improvement or career stewardship — it is watchful, active discipleship in the time between the first and second comings. Everything in the parable, including the staggering sums of money, is calibrated to that eschatological frame. Memorable Quotes The real difference is that the former servants understood that their master had trusted them with a task and expected something of them, and the unfaithful, wicked, lazy servant had a total misunderstanding of who the master was — and therefore what his role as the master's servant was. That's the point of this parable. — Tony Arsenal Well done, good and faithful servant — that's not a special commendation that only the most amazing Christian servants get. That's the basic commendation that every Christian who enters into glory will receive. Whether you have been the most productive soul-winner in the world... you're going to receive the same commendation as the person who dies, and on their deathbed the last thing that they think is, 'I trust Jesus.' — Tony Arsenal God's measure of faithfulness is proportional, not absolute. The two-talent servant is not judged by the five-talent standard. He is judged by what he received. — Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript [00:00:08] Tony Arsenal: that's not a special commendation that only the most amazing Christian servants get, right? That's the basic commendation that every Christian who enters into glory will receive. Whether you have been the most productive soul-winner in the world, whether you are the most, you know, the most sanctified Christian who's ever lived, whether you are, the most amazing person and millions of people have come to faith because of your ministry, you're going to receive the same commendation as the person who dies, and on their deathbed the last thing that they think is, I trust Jesus." Right. And they've produced no converts, no ministry, and maybe no one even knows that they were justified, because in their final moments before the lights went out, they trusted in Jesus, right? They hear the same well done, good and faithful servant when they enter into glory. Welcome to episode 496 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  And I'm Tony, and this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey, brother.  [00:01:19] Jesse Schwamb: Hey, brother.  [00:01:21] Parable Teaser [00:01:21] Jesse Schwamb: You know, the parables just keep coming for us, like we've said. And on this episode, to, just to tee it up, to whet everybody's appetites, we've got three servants, one absent master, an uncomfortable amount of money. What could go wrong? Yeah. As it turns out, quite a bit, especially if you're the kind of person who responds to divine generosity by finding the nearest shovel. So we're gonna get to all of that in this, what I call, this now sandwich of eschatological parables or teachings of Jesus in Matthew 25. So hopefully you're curious, hopefully you're stoked. But you can go put your thumb right in the scriptures there, because you're gonna meet us there very, very, very, very shortly. But first we got business. It's always the business we must do, the part of the podcast where we affirm with something or deny against something. And as always, I'm really curious what you have, and now I understand you have a list, or you're keeping a list. So- I do ... never again will there be something like that falls to the cutting room floor, brothers and sisters. Tony is always gonna have for us whatever was- ... what came to his brilliant mind as an affirmation or denial at any point, day or night.  [00:02:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. Do you, Jesse, do you ever have... I know the answer to this question is going to be yes- Yeah. That's good ... but I'm gonna ask it- All right ... mostly for rhetorical effect here. This is good podcasting.  [00:02:38] Psalm 67B Praise [00:02:38] Tony Arsenal: Do you have, do you have those situations where, like, the, the so- a song hits you, and it's just, like, the right combination of words, but also the right combination of, like, musicality?  [00:02:49] Jesse Schwamb: For sure.  [00:02:50] Tony Arsenal: Where it just, like, it just, it just feels- For sure like, right and good in every part of your being. So- All the time, yep ... I, I'm affirming, um, th- this is like the most Presbyterian thing ever. I'm affirming the, the arrangement in the Trinity, uh, psalter hymnal for Psalm 67B. Now, I'm not gonna try to sing it for you, but I wanna read the words, because obviously it's, it's a paraphrase of a psalm. So, like, that's the first thing. Like, people, like, calm down. Like, it's okay to sing paraphrases. It's okay to sing. No one is actually singing the Hebrew psalms. Right. Amen. So, like, just calm down a little bit. Amen. Uh, there is a place for us to dedicate specific focus to psalms and songs that are from the psalms, but that can be something like Better Is One Day. Like, that's a song from a psalm. Anyway, that's a whole different, that's a whole different thing. Yes, I'm affirming psalm singing. Uh, yes, I'm denying overly rigid understandings of what that is. But here's the words for Psalm 67, Setting B. That's important It's, "O God, show mercy to us and bless us with your grace and cause to shine upon us the brightness of your face, so that the whole world over may truly know your way and so that your salvation all nations see displayed. O God, let peoples praise you. Let all the peoples praise. Let nations come rejoicing and songs of gladness rise, raise." Then, um, stanza two, "For you will judge the peoples with perfect equity. To nations of the whole Earth a governor you'll be. O God, let the peoples praise you. Let all the peoples praise. The Earth has brought its bounty throughout its harvest days.  [00:04:24] Why Sing Psalms [00:04:24] Tony Arsenal: Since God our God will bless us, yes, God will blessing send, that all the Earth may fear Him to its remotest end." Now, there are lots of really great, uh, theologically sound, edifying hymns and worship choruses, but there's just something about the Psalms, right? It's inspired- Um- ... it's perfect. Again, like I said, nobody is singing the actual Hebrew Psalms, or even, I shouldn't say nobody, most people are not singing, like, the Psalms from the ESV, right? These are almost all paraphrases. They're, they're translations. But there's just something about the Psalms that I have grown so much to appreciate since joining a Presbyterian church. That's not to say other traditions don't sing Psalms in their own right, and again, like, we would sing Better Is One Day and other songs that were based on Psalms. Um, even, like, real direct translations or real direct versions of Psalms, like Better Is One Day or Create In Me A Clean Heart, there's all sorts of them. But there's just something about singing the Psalms, and this particular musical setting, it's triumphant, but not in the, like, fanfare kind of triumphant. Do you know what I mean, Jesse? Like- Mm-hmm ... it's, it's a triumphant melody, and it has, like, really interesting rises and falls and... So I, I'm gonna probably try to put this at the end of the episode. So listen. Hopefully I'll get the whole thing. Let me just, let me just do this. Hold on a second. It's just gorgeous. It's just beautiful. So I, I, I don't know what it was this morning. Uh, it's, I wasn't, like, promo- particularly emotional. It didn't, like, make me cry. Yeah. But all of that's fine. Like, I've been brought to tears in worship before, and that's, that's all good and well. There was just something about it that resonated, and I was like, "This is just good." Like, this is just good music. It's good singing. Something about hearing, uh, the whole congregation singing together. Like, it was just beautiful. It was just a beautiful moment. So if you are not in a psalm-singing church, first of all, why aren't you in a psalm-singing church? Uh, no worship leader on Earth, no, no person who is worth... Uh, when I say worship leader, I mean the person who's responsible for leading musical worship. No one who's leading worshipful music, worshipful? Worship music, if you approach them and say, "I would like to sing more songs that are based on the Psalms," if they say, "We don't wanna sing Psalms here," then you just go somewhere else. Like, someone who tells you, like, "We don't wanna s- we don't wanna sing God's Word," that doesn't make any sense to me.  [00:06:56] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:06:56] Tony Arsenal: Um, now again, like, there's a way to do it. Sometimes musically they're challenging, especially if you're singing out of something like the hymnal. But again, there are plenty of really good modern style songs and hymn style songs that are either based on the Psalms or are paraphrases, very similar to what you get in the, in the Trinity Psalter Hymnal. Or most, most people who are leading in musical worship are competent enough to just sort of take the sheet music and figure out how to do it on guitar or figure out how to play it on piano. Um, they're not that difficult. So you will be edified if you do this. Your church will be edified. There's probably a lot of people out there responsible for musical worship that actually would really like to do this, and they're kind of probably, like, just waiting for that nudge, so you may even be benefiting them. But yeah, this, this psalm is beautiful. It's just a gorgeous arrangement, and it's, it's perfect, inspired words. Really was a, just a, a balm to my soul this morning.  [00:07:51] Jesse Schwamb: I love it. And o- of course, a lot of that is still happening, which is such a glorious gift to the church. The couple of times that I've had the privilege of writing music for my own church has been right from the scriptures, and for me recently that was, like, Ephesians 1 and Psalm 16. And that's mainly because, like, as a lyricist, I'm not that creative, and I'd rather go direct to the source. And all those end up being a paraphrase, like you said, anyway. Es- especially if you wanna get turn of phrase or if you wanna have a little bit of rhyming, which is always a beautiful thing. I love the Psalter, and my, my hot take on that is I sometimes find that I like, I don't wanna call them, like, the alternate, but, like, the other secondary arrangements-  Yeah and  lyrics better. I don't know why. I don't think that's purposeful, of course. It's probably just my taste. But I always find them to be, like, super fire. I, I don't know why. The, the B and C versions always kinda grab me, especially if... And here's another thing that I appreciate about the Psalter, as you know, is sometimes those B or C versions will be written in an alternate key or a minor key. Yeah. And that's even more awesome, because there's not a lot of, let's say, like, cla- I don't wanna say classic. Classic slash contemporary, uh, Christian music or wors- quote-unquote worship music that's written in minor keys. But it's good to lament, as we've talked about before. So- Yeah ... you're gonna get that full breath and scope in the Psalter there. [00:09:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:09:07] Beyond Music Styles [00:09:07] Tony Arsenal: A- and, you know, maybe let me put in one more little plug here. Um- I am not one of those people that is gonna say that there's like a particular style of music that's more godly than another. I've heard people try to make arguments that there's like certain kinds of rhythms or certain kinds of like beats that are- Right either, either more godly or somehow demonic or less godly. Um, I think there might be an argument to be made that some styles of worship are not suited well for congregational singing, so they may not be appropriate for like a, a congregational worship service. Like, you're probably not gonna go in and do a lot of hip hop and have the congregation be able to like stick with you. Right. That doesn't mean that you can't worship God through that or that it somehow is less like intrinsically beautiful. But, um, there are a lot of Let me just put it this way. In modern contemporary Western Christianity, uh, there's a lot of songs that are basically just the same thing musically. You know, you'll find, um, if you go to, like, YouTube, and, and maybe, like, be careful, 'cause sometimes some of these are, they're funny but they're a little bit crass. But if you look up, like, a video about how, like, every song is Pachel Bell's Canon. Right. Right? Every song follows the same basic arrangement of chords, and this gets even more pronounced when you're talking about modern worship music or contemporary mu- worship music, because it's designed to be able to be very simple and very easily played. Um, a lot of times worship directors are not super classically trained. Um, you think of, like, the youth pastor with the guitar around the campfire. Like, those kinds of songs have to be easy, 'cause they're not, like, classically trained guitar players. They probably picked up a chord book and figured out how to play a couple easy songs like Jesus, Lover of My Soul and things like that. That's how I learned how to play guitar. That's the extent of my skills, so I'm not, I'm not banging on that person. Um, but there are a lot, there's a lot more to music. Um, there's a lot more to singing, and there's a lot more to choral music than, you know, GCDC kind of like worship courses. Uh, and singing something like the Psalter, or even just singing out of a good hymnal- Right will actually expand your musical horizons. And there's something to be said about the creativity of our God being reflected in the creativity of His people that I do think we miss out on when we are locked into really simplistic worship styles. Um, again, like, I interpret Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs to mean, like, sing in the vernacular of the people. Um, and I, you know, that's a different episode. We can talk about that sometime. But th- that, that requires the songs to be singable, and I think sometimes, uh, sometimes some of the song- some of the Psalters, some of the songs in the Psalter hymnals, and sometimes hymnals in general, are very difficult to sing. And so I think a congregation, the people leading in music need to be thoughtful of that. But I think you would do well to, like, open your horizons a little bit to something a little bit more challenging and a little bit off the beaten path. Like, this melody, I don't know the chords behind it. It may not be anything crazy, but that, like, musicality and that, that sort of, like, melody is not a typical... And this might be why it resonated with me. It's not a typical kind of melody you're gonna find in contemporary music. Um, it's, it's very different. It's older. It's more classically styled. The, it's, it's meant to sort of bring you up to these crescendos in ways that modern music is not necessarily. So enough about that. I don't know a lot about music theory, so I might be totally wrong and, and- ... people might be rolling their eyes. But I, I do think that there's something to it. Like, a lot of the older hymns- utilize chord progressions and melodies and harmonies and things like that that we're just not used to. You're not gonna get that listening to, you know, even something like, like the more musical kind, uh, more technically proficient music like something like Bethel or Hillsong, which is at times musically very good. Uh, I don't know that I would recommend listening to it, but the music is actually, like, technically very good in some instances. Uh, even there you're not gonna find a lot of this stuff. So instead of going there for, like, really nice sounding musical worship, just go to something like the Trinity Psalter app. You know, for $10 on a- on your iPhone you can sing with it. Um, yeah, enough about that. I, I, I could talk about how great the Psalms are and how great psalm singing is for an entire episode. We should do that episode- We should ... when we're done with the parables, 'cause I know we've done a lot of episodes on, like, uh, on, on, like, the regulative principle and- Right I, I think we're still both in the same spot that, like- Right ... exclusive psalmody is probably not where we would land. Right. But I think I'm coming to the conviction that the psalms should have a much greater portion of our worship diet, uh- Hmm ... than they do in most churches. Um, and I really only came to that conviction when I was in a church where psalm singing was the norm. Uh, I know that we try to have at least one s- one canonical psalm for every single worship service. Usually there's multiple, but, um, even in a, a, a setting where we normally wouldn't be so focused on that, we still try to have at least one, and it's been a, a really huge edifying thing to my soul.  [00:14:06] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I absolutely love that. You'll find no complaint from me on that. I think that that's a good reminder for all of us.  [00:14:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:14:14] Book Sing Recommendation [00:14:14] Tony Arsenal: Jesse, what do you have?  [00:14:15] Jesse Schwamb: Well, it's, we're not gonna stop this conversation, just so you know. Because we don't sync up on these things ever, but it just so happens that I'm affirming with a book that it's a really simple primer on congregational singing-  There you go that has  long been on my list and overdue to read, and I am coming in hot with a recommendation for this, and that is the book entitled Sing! How Worship Transforms Your Life, Family, and Church by Keith and Kristyn Getty. And really, it covers so many of the things that you already talked about. I, I think at the foremost, it's a reminder that God cares whether in what we sing, but he does not mind how well we sing. Yes. But it is, like, the, this... What's true is that our voices might not be of a professional standard, but they are of a confessional standard. Yeah. And so it is incumbent upon every Christian to sing. And if you need just, like, a little bit of inspiration, so to speak, or a reminder of why that's important, I highly commend this book to you. In fact, in the back they have what's called, like, these bonus tracks. It's like four or five separate chapters that they've written just to particular people in the church, pastors, laypeople, musicians, even the people that help produce the sound. I found that bit to be so lovely and pastoral. It, it's gentle, the tone is encouraging, but it is also strong, and I appreciate that. So a lot of it is some of the themes that we've just talked about, but my conviction grows all the time of just how important congregational singing is, and how everything you just said, the music, the liturgy that we bring forward- has to be of a deliberate kind to strengthen that exercise, to make it easy, so to speak. And that does come into practical things like if you look at the psalter, and I, I don't... I have it on my phone, but I don't know where my phone is, so I was gonna look at the one you were referencing. My guess is it's, it's in probably a key with a couple of sharps in it, because those are the ones that are easiest to sing. So even little things like that matter. What you hear on the radio often is, or radio? People still listen to the radio? What you hear, like, in, like, contemporary music, like, often is not necessarily for congregational singing just in its key, and, and that's okay. And so even in my own church, we transpose things to make it reasonable and approachable. But what I think was, like, the critical question put forward in this book that I absolutely loved as a great reminder was: how did the congregation sing? It's very interesting that they kind of bring forward this thesis that that's how you should be judging your music. How did the congregation sing? And I think if we started asking that, it might slightly tweak or maybe change altogether, to your point, the methods and the practices that we use when we undergo worship by way or through music. So this is really great. It's easily readable, and it's for everybody, and it, there's a chapter on family worship as well, how to bring singing into your home and music into your home all the time as an act of worship so that when you get to the Lord's Day, your kids are like, "Yeah, this is our jam." Uh, especially maybe even recognizing some of the pieces of music and be excited about that. So there was a lot that made me think about here. It's fantastic. And to your point, Tony, I would say the Gettys, especially in, like, "Christ Alone," some of the other things, this is probably the closest to what you're talking about, where they've taken and imported kind of the classical hymn structures-  [00:17:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah [00:17:27] Jesse Schwamb: but modernized a little bit just the language while without sacrificing any of the theological richness or the musicality that draws your ear to those beautiful rising and falling melodies, the swelling of the vocal there, without, like, distracting from anything that's going on there. It's not emotionalism- Yeah but it certainly is filled with the emotion of what it means to be a Christian and to sing in response as an act of praise to God.  [00:17:50] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:17:52] Family Worship Singing [00:17:52] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I can't underscore enough the importance of congregational singing. We, we've, we've actually talked about, about it in context of, like, how important it is for the men of the congregation to sing, which is something I, I really appreciate about my congregation, is, is the m- the men just go all out. Like, people are, like- Love it ... nobody is, nobody is ashamed of the fact that they squawk on a note that they're not used to or anything like that. And where this really pays out, um, at least in our congregation, but I'd, I'd be willing to bet if you go to any congregation where the, where the men particularly are passionate and active in musical worship, right? Um, I think where this plays out is you see the children very quickly picking up those songs and learning them and singing them. And the, the favorite part of my day, this is gon- any parent of toddlers is gonna be like, "What are you talking about?" Bedtime is one of my favorite times of day, not just because it means that, like, in a little while I'm gonna get a little peace and quiet. Like, that's part of it, too, but there are two songs that we sing almost every single night, and Augie leads them, which is really great. He always wants to start, and he always wants to sing, and it's the Doxology and the Gloria Patri. And these are songs that he has just picked up from being in the congregation, and, you know, I, I don't remember consciously teaching him any of these songs. And now, now Adeline, who is, uh, my two-year-old daughter, almost two, she's starting to pick those songs up, and she's starting to sing them, and she recognizes them, and she responds very differently to those songs than she does to other songs. Um, it's funny because I don't, I don't know where she got this. Neither my wife nor I are particularly, uh, charismatic, emotive people. Like, we don't raise our hands when we're singing, but she, she does. She, she, when we start singing- My girl ... the Gloria Patri or the Doxology, her hand is in the air, and she's looking at the sky, and she's waving her hands around. Yeah. And, um, she recognizes that those songs have a different place than a Miss Rachel song. She doesn't put her hands in the air and wave and look up at the ceiling when Miss Rachel comes on or when Baby Shark comes on. She knows those songs. She can sing those songs. Um, but she doesn't- Respond to those in the same way. And that is a direct result of the fact that congregational singing is an important thing in the life of our church and in the life of our family. And I think a book like Sing, I haven't read it, but I've heard very good things about it, and the, the Gettys are rock solid, like- Right ... theologically. Yes. Musically. They're, they're well within our Reformed tradition, at least broadly speaking. Um, and, and they have a, they have one of the strongest sort of theologies of praise music that you're gonna find. Mm-hmm. It's not quite like a liturgiology or something like that, but it's, it's, it's a theology of praise worship, praise and worship music. Right. Um, and that's not something that's super common, right? There's a lot of theology of liturgy. There's a lot of practical theology on liturgy. Um, the Gettys have developed a really unique kind of place in things in that they've really developed this idea that congregational singing has a specific theological import, and they've developed it in a way that's approachable. So yeah, I haven't read it and I sh- I probably should, but it, it sounds like a really great book. And, um, I c- just can't underscore it enough. And- Maybe this is my little plug. Like, uh, family worship is really tough, and it's not something I've mastered. Like, we don't, we, we don't have a regular rhythm. But what we do have is we have a consistent, uh, we consistently pray at night before bed, and we consistently sing one or both of those songs. And that by itself, like, the kids are learning and they are, they're absorbing that by osmosis. Um, they're picking up the phrasing, right? Augie can tell you who the three persons of the Trinity are, and that's partially 'cause we do catechism questions, but it's also partially, and I would actually argue probably more, because of the Trinitarian structure of those two songs. Right. He's picked up the language of the Father, the Spirit, and the Son from the Gloria Patri and from the doxology in ways that probably I wouldn't have been able to teach him otherwise. So yeah. Anyway, I, I just co-opted your affirmation. But, um, but yeah. I'm here for it. Congregational worship, family worship, singing, uh, to our Lord is commanded, and it's commanded for our good- Right and for his, his benefit and his blessing. Um, and so any book that is, is solid and will help you do that, I, I'm wholeheartedly behind.  [00:22:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. This is... All that is fire. This is fire.  [00:22:19] Reclaim Congregational Song [00:22:19] Jesse Schwamb: God designed our psyche for singing, and we're probably, uh, I would say contractually obligated since Reformed is in the name of the title of the podcast- to remind ourselves and everybody else that one of the things the Reformation did was reclaim the singing of God's word by his own people. Yes. Taking it out of that performatory space back into literally the voice boxes of the people who are sitting in worship together. So sometimes we might have to do that again. You know, there is a little bit, I think, of... There, there is in some places, not everywhere, this kind of tilting of that time of worship through music to be vouchsafed or relegated to those who are, uh, let's say, like, the most, like, talented in doing that, and somehow we participate merely by observing or by- Yeah just, uh, you know, being an audience spectator of that, and that's totally backwards. So I get it. The thing is- We're all singers. We may not all be very good singers, but we're all created to be singers nonetheless. This is what the Bible tells us. So we need to lean into that. We need to invest in that. Yeah. And so I, I like, of course, what you're doing with, uh, your kids because you're not only teaching them to sing, and this makes me so happy, but you're teaching them to love singing to the Lord. Yeah. And so that is, I think, what a lot of our congregations miss, is sometimes we do it, and I'm among them often, but grudgingly. And so to get to a place where we come excited that our reasonable response, our reasonable preparation on the Lord's day is to sing together, to hear that gospel message in melody in the ear of our... You know, the voice of our neighbor in our own ear is a wild thing. It's just, like, un- unheard of. And it's like, uh, we gotta stop, right? It's one of those things also that, like- ... we've, we've talked about how it's just kind of otherworldly. Not, not only in the sense that it gives us this really kind of foundational sense of God's, you know, kind of transcendence, of what it means to participate in the worship of someone who is transcendent because it is all these voices together, but also this is something that rarely happens in any other way, especially in the Western culture anymore. This coming together to express and to participate in something where we're all reading literally from the same sheet music is just an entirely different experience, increasingly relegated to this kind of experience. So we, we must protect it, not only because God says that we ought to, but also because, again, it is, it is our reasonable response. Yeah. And it is something, like you've just said, that brings Him glory and is certainly for our good. So, uh, this is the Singcast, so everybody- ... everybody get to it. You can make your own music. God has commanded us to sing. So the sooner we just understand, like, hey, it's, it's... You know. Uh, but... And the last thing I'll say is this is one of those things that's, like, practice too. A- and I get it. Like, you may say, like, "Listen, I can only hit two notes, and that's all I'm gonna hit no matter what the music is." Well, then belt the two notes, and also know that, like, the more you practice that kind of thing, honestly, the better that you'll get and the more comfortable that you'll become. The voice is an instrument like any other instrument that takes, like, a little bit of practice and a little bit of work. But even that can cause, I think, great benefits and build a little bit of confidence. But just the example of singing and doing it from a heart that is keen to worship God and that is filled with passion to respond to Him with gratitude and, you know, adoration is really the key thing. And so I, I'd rather have a entire group full of worshipers that are singing off-key but, like, with just resounding passion than to have this performance of just a handful of voices because they feel like they're the most capable to do it. Yeah. I think we'd, we'd rather have everybody else, and to hear the congregation mixed as one of those instruments. So sing. Yeah.  [00:26:05] Everyone Can Sing [00:26:05] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and y- you and I have made the point in the past, too, like- I, I don't think, uh, maybe I'm wrong. Uh, we are a top 50 healthcare podcast, so maybe some doctor- I'm sure you're correct ... is gonna... Right. Like, I don't think being tone deaf is actually a physical condition. Like- Mm. I, I mean, I, I mean, obviously, like, some people have hearing problems, and that means they have trouble singing. I hear what you're saying. But, like, the people who are like, "Well, I j- I just can't sing. I'm just not capable of that," uh, like, I think the, the physical conditions that would make you incapable of singing are not usually what people are talking about. Like- Right. Yeah ... you know, some people have, like, vocal fold disorders or they have hearing problems, and I guess maybe, like, if perfect pitch is a thing, which it, it is. Like, perfect pitch is a... I don't know what causes it, but some people are born with perfect pitch. I suppose in theory that means some people must be born with, like, the opposite of perfect pitch. But I think most people who say, like, "Well, I just, I'm just tone deaf. I can't carry a tone," that, that's probably not true. Like, it just means you need practice. Um, and some people's voices, like physically, their bodies are more, more designed by God to produce a pleasant sound than other people. But I, I think actually just about anybody with a little bit of practice, and mostly I think this is probably just the confidence to actually sing and a little bit of practice to learn how your body works, like how your voice works, um, could probably get to a point where singing is not only very relatively comfortable and easy, but it's something that is pleasant and is not overly challenging. This is actually something that I think we've lost in the church. We should... This, I mean, this is about to come the episode, but, um- ... something we've lost in the church when we have sort of changed from a true genuine congregational singing model, which was the norm- And I've heard people make arguments about the importance of hymnals, and I, I agree with those arguments, although I know some people have moved them into almost like a realm of, like, divine mandate- Right that you have to use hymnals because it trains people to teach. But we have lost something with both the sort of commercialization of worship music and the pro- like making it a professional thing, and we've lost congregational singing. The, the people in the church throughout history have learned to sing. Many of them have learned to read, learned the scriptures, learned theology, not in the seminary and not in the monastery, but in the pew as they sing God's word and as they sing- Right ... the great theological hymns of, of the church. There's so much you can learn through that process that I just think we've lost. And I think going back to something like a hymnal or the Trinity Psalter Hymnal or whatever, whatever standard music your church is gonna use, and I mean standard music. Like, whether this is a collection of worship choruses that has been curated for the church or it's a published hymnal or something like that, going back to something like that teaches the church how to sing. And I don't remember who wrote it, but the trellis and the vine, like the worship that we sing, I know Mike Horton makes this point. The worship that we sing is the tre- is the trellis that the vine of our wor- of our- Yes ... faith grows on, right? That's true. Like, what the, what the church lex credendi, lex orandi. Like, the church, what the church prays, the church believes. What the church sings, the church believes. So all of that to say, like, the, the importance of congregational singing can't be under-emphasized, and it's... I, I mean, I don't know that I would I don't know that most theologists say technically s- like, congregational singing is an element of worship, but praising the Lord through song certainly is. Yes. It's, it's evidence. Um, and, and so I think that's definitely something that the church has lost in general. Um, and I know there are churches... I- it's funny, when Ashley and I were between churches, uh, very briefly after, um, our previous church closed down, um, we went to a local sort of, like, high, high, uh, production, seeker-sensitive church, very Steven Furtick-esque, and we only lasted, like, 10 minutes in this, in this service. We went in and the production value was great, and the music sounded great, but we couldn't hear ourselves, we couldn't sing- Right ... and it was very performative, and we just left. We were only there for a few minutes, and we left. And I think that's something we've lost as we've sort of migrated worship to almost, like, a professional class. So yeah, bring it back to the pews. Bring it back to your- Bring it back ... bring it back to your house, bring it back to your kid's bedroom when you're tucking them in. Everywhere. Bring it back to the car on the way to work, in the bus. Right. Like, just let's everywhere we go, let's sing and worship the Lord. [00:30:30] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's right.  [00:30:31] Train Your Voice [00:30:31] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, so as a final thing, let me compound your hot take and say that I agree with you, that I... And I think professionals would as well, and I'm gonna stand on a resource that I'm gonna recommend to everybody here in a second, that in fact the Getty say, "If you can speak, you can sing." And there are a f- a few conditions that would prevent you from doing that, of course. And even there, they wanna explore opportunities for you, for instance, signing, for instance, to ensure that you can participate in worship. Uh, the hot take is I do think that because the instrument that God has given us in the vocal cords is exactly that, that it can be trained, and that actually most people can sing. And if you're serious about that, if you think, "You know what? I'd like to be able to do that. How can I explore that?" Here's a book for you. It's called Set Your Voice Free by Roger Love. The full title is How to Get the Singing or Speaking Voice You Want. Roger Love is, like, this amazing behind-the-scenes vocal coach. He has coached, like, a ton of really talented recording artists, and this is his very contention in the book, is that everybody can sing. It's really about how much or little work you wanna put into it. And in fact, this book comes with, like, these exercises that you can listen to and then record yourself. And then he, from a distance basically, can give you some pointers based on allowing you to kinda evaluate what you hear in your own recording back. So if you really are the kind of person that's like, "Listen, I, I dare you. I cannot sing," I would challenge you, I would double dog dare you to get this book, Set Your Voice Free, and if you're really serious about wanting to try and see if it can make a difference, I, I think it can. And I've, I myself have enjoyed this book, gone back to it many times, use it in my own work and practice because I found it to be helpful. So there you go. Sing, sing, and sing again.  [00:32:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:32:07] Singing Apps and Practice [00:32:07] Tony Arsenal: And if you're not a reader, first of all, why are you listening to the podcast? But second of all, if for some reason you're not a reader I'm, I'm joking. I'm sure there are people that are listening to the podcast who are not readers. That was, like, a super smug thing to say. How dare you. I'm sorry about that. How dare you. Um, if for some reason you don't wanna read that book or you're not a reader, um, y- you can do something as simple as looking up Yousician on your Yousician, Y-O-U- Yeah ... S-I, like the word musician, but U instead of, like, Y-O-U instead of, uh, musician. Um, there are plenty of apps out there. I just, I mention Yousician just because I've used that on, like, a free trial basis with some guitar teaching, and it's a reputable source. They also have a vocal module. So, like, if you wanna learn to sing, there are plenty of resources out there who can help you train your voice. A- and it- Again, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a vocal coach, I'm not a professional singer. I'm not even that great of a singer, and I, I probably could be a better singer if I wanted to devote the time to it. Um, it doesn't take much to, to be able- Right ... to become a competent singer. Um, I think most of us, you pick up one s- just like I learned guitar, you pick one or two songs that you really like and you wanna learn, and you learn to sing those songs, and then those skills will develop over time. So enough about that, Jesse. We've got, speaking of talents- ... we've got some talents to talk about. There it is. Boom, bazinga. Baza-bazom. I'm  [00:33:27] Jesse Schwamb: back. There it is. Yeah, so- I was excited  [00:33:31] Tony Arsenal: about that one ...  [00:33:32] Jesse Schwamb: that, that was really good. And, and we should just h- honor everyone. That's it.  [00:33:37] Tony Arsenal: That's it. Tip your waiters and waitresses, folks. It  [00:33:39] Jesse Schwamb: was so good. We're here all week.  [00:33:41] Parable Context Setup [00:33:41] Jesse Schwamb: So we're in Matthew 25, uh, verses 14 through 28, and this is at least gonna be a two-parter for us. This goes by the name you might be familiar of, which is The Parable of the Talents. But before we get to it, just a quick reminder that we've been speaking about this parable, not like in a special way, but hopefully in the more contextual sense. So this is the second of three eschatological parables in Matthew 25. So the first was The 10 Virgins, which we went through. We're in The Talents, and then we're coming up to everybody's favorite, The Sheep and the Goats. All three are part of this Olivet Discourse, which is, of course, Jesus' final teaching block before his Passion. And I think it h- behooves us so that we do not get distracted from, like, the center of gravity of this thing, that this is delivered in response to the disciples' question about the sign of his coming and the age to come. Because I've heard so many, like, little talks, maybe homilies is more the right word, on this particular parable that lack gravity. So little gravity that basically NASA could train their astronauts in it. So we wanna stay away from that and I think get into, like, the, the proper context. So Tony, do you have it in front of you by any chance? And would  [00:34:50] Tony Arsenal: you- I do. I do, yeah. Yeah. Read it for us? I'll read it here.  [00:34:52] Reading the Parable [00:34:52] Tony Arsenal: So this is, uh, starting in, uh, Matthew 25 verse 14, and I'm gonna read down through, uh, the end of verse 30 here. So it, it reads here, "For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted them, entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. Now after a long time, the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. And he who had received the five talents came forward bringing five talents more, saying, 'Master, you delivered to me five talents. Here I have made five talents more.' His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little. I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.' And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, "Master, you delivered to me two talents. Here I have made two talents more." His master said to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little. I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master." He also who had received one talent came forward, saying, "Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed. So I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here, you have what is yours." But his master answered him, "You wicked and slothful servant. You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming, I should have received what was my own with interest. So take the talent from him who gave it, who give it to him who has 10 talents. For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. For, uh, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness in that place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."  [00:36:56] Watchfulness and Stewardship [00:36:56] Jesse Schwamb: So it starts with that amazing connective, which we really spoke about in the last episode, in verse four- 14, starting with four. So it's tying, like we said, this parable directly to verse 13, which we know is in the, the parable of the ten virgins. But it's this idea of watchfulness. "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour." So th- I think this is the point we really drove last time, that we really felt highly convicted about, that this parable is not like a detached economic lesson, but it's really like an expedition, exposition, not expedition- ... of what watchful discipleship actually looks like during the interval of the master's absence. Like, that's the whole setup here. So it's starting with this idea of like the master goes away, but here we have these slaves or these servants who are entrusted. And to me, again, that's like such a linchpin in this whole thing, 'cause it's, it's carrying the sense that of course, like, he's handing over stewardship. It's a deposit held on another's behal- I love this parable because it has some banking language in it. It's, it's a deposit held on another's behalf, and that's like the key covenant concept of the entire thing. Ownership remains with the master. The servants are stewards. They're not proprietors. And that language, I think, really anticipates, like, the entire New Testament theology of stewardship, which is developed by Paul. So like when Paul writes in 1 Corinthians, "This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful." So like all of that, that's like just one verse for me. Like, that's an incredible setup.  [00:38:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:38:28] Common Misreadings [00:38:28] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and you know, I think it bears saying, too, um, I wanna be careful how I say this because I don't wanna impugn, uh, poor motives or anything like that on, on the, the people that I'm about to speak to. And I say this a little bit tongue in cheek, but also I say this as someone who used to be deeply involved in youth ministry. There's kind of like a, a youth ministry, um- international version of the Bible, I guess, if you wanna put it that way, where, like, there are certain, certain passages and parables that s- for some reason seem really prone to misapplication- Sure in, in some context. And I would say, like, youth ministry is the one I have in mind. Like, um, one of them is, like, in Matthew 18 where it's like, "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the midst of them." Like, that's a, that's a statement about God's, God's presence in the judgment of the church and excommunicating an un- like, a, an unrepentant, uh, person who identifies with Christ. And, and ironically here, maybe not ironically, but, like, casting them into the outer darkness of excommunication, which is representative of casting them out into the actual inner darkness of damnation. Right. Like, th- there's a, there's a misapplication of that, that like, well, you know, like, if only a couple people came to youth group tonight, like, it's still worth meeting because where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst of them. Um, this, this parable has a very similar kind of misapplication that is maybe a, a little bit less of a misapplication. Like, I think there is something to say in this parable about the fact that God entrusts us with abilities, talents, treasure, t- our time. Like, He's entrusted us with resources, and He does expect us to use those resources, uh, in a way that is honoring to Him and beneficial for the, for the gospel and for the kingdom. Um, that's true in a broad sense, but I don't think actually that this is what that... But, like, that's not what this passage- Mm ... is teaching. Right. I think I, I kinda joked last time, but, like, I've heard more than one sermon that draws the parallel between the word talent here and our talents in terms of, like, our spiritual gifts or our ability to play guitar or, like, to bounce a basketball and, like, thr- like, throw a free throw. Like, that's not the kinda talent we're talking about here. So I wanna, I wanna sorta, like, point that out just to sort of exclude that from the conversation. Yes, God gifts His people, and He expects His people to use those gifts for His glory and for their own benefit. Um, but that's not what this parable is talking about. This is a parable about the fact that God has entrusted the kingdom of heaven on Earth to His people.  [00:41:08] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:41:08] Tony Arsenal: And He expects His people to make use of that in a way that expands the kingdom and also in a way that does not... And this is, this is, I actually think, the main point of the parable. In a way that properly understands the nature of the king. The, the punchline or the main point of the parable here, it, just to sort of, like, I don't know, give away the ending or, like, unbury the lead, I don't know, whatever that is. The point of this parable- It's not that, like, it's a really good thing to double what God has resourced you with. The point of the parable, the reason that, just like the, um, just like it wasn't the virgins falling asleep in the last parable that was the problem because everybody fell asleep, in this instance, uh, the amount of money or the amount of return on investment that the servants produce is not the point of the parable. That's not the real difference between them. The real difference is that the former servants understood that their master had trusted them with a task and expected something of them, and the, the unfaithful, wicked, lazy servant had a total misunderstanding of who the master was- Right ... and therefore what his role as the master's servant was. That's the point of this parable, and I think, this is the last thing I'll say before I, I, I take a breath here. There's a lot of people that would look at this parable and might read some sort of works righteousness or, um, and this is more understandable and I think has a place within the Reformed tradition, although I don't necessarily hold this view. But would look at this as sort of like a theology which would, would argue that we receive some sort of enhanced rewards in heaven based on our faithfulness. There's plenty of good, faithful Reformed Bible teachers that would hold that position. I actually think whether or not that's true, this is still also not what this passage is getting at. [00:43:00] Jesse Schwamb: I, I totally agree with you there.  [00:43:02] Talents as Huge Wealth [00:43:02] Jesse Schwamb: I, I think one of the reasons that we know that is because we can look at some of these details and let the details speak to us about the magnitude in their representation, why they're given. So of course, whenever the scripture gives us detail, especially in a context like a parable, it can be helpful of cour- of course not to overanalyze them, but to respect their place in the context of the story, and that's why verse 15 I think is so important. So to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability, then he went away. Now, this, this varies slightly, but there's a lot of, I think, very common historicity here that points us to understanding, like, the talents as a unit of monetary weight, and there is some discrepancy about its exact weight. But what we can say for sure is this: that we're talking about, as I teased at the beginning, a huge sum of money. So in other words, like, this is a gift from God himself. It's a divine gift. Yeah. It's something that's not earned. It's something that's given and something that's entrusted. So in the first-century Roman world, a talent was roughly equivalent to, like, 6,000 denarii, depending on who you talk to, which would mean that a single talent represented approximately, like, 20 years on average of a laborer's wages. So the sums then here we're talking about are staggering even at the lowest one. So the five-talent servant is receiving essentially approximately equivalent of a century's wages, and the one-talent servant is receiving 20 years' worth. There's no such thing as a small gift in Christ's economy, I think is the point here, and even the least endowment is immense beyond our reckoning. Yeah. So the distribution also is deliberately unequal. It's five, one, two, and the text doesn't offer any apology for this inequality. The master distributes to each according to his ability, which as I say that, I realize that could probably be its own episode, that we could talk about what that even means. Yeah. But he is matching and entrusting to capacity, and that's not arbitrary. Of course, that's wise and personal, and even the Greek here for this idea of capacity or power suggests the master knows his servants intimately and calibrates the stewardship accordingly. But nonetheless, it proves the point you're making here, which is not just about, like, well, do you have some kind of innate ability that's above average that God has endowed you with here? That's not even what we're talking about. Again, the whole point of this is to answer the question eschatologically about what the end means and when the time is coming and what good discipleship looks like. And so in that way, we understand then these talents to be these divinely appointed and massively generous gifts of God, essentially, like you said, the stewarding of the gospel in the story of salvation itself unto his people, and then to make something of that, so to speak, by the power of the Holy Spirit that earns a return for the kingdom, that is all empowered by God, that is under the volition of the person, uh, the Christian who says, "As a disciple, it is my responsibility to steward these gifts." That is really what we're after. So we do kind of get in this place where when you take this and say, "Well, what are you doing with," let's say- your home, if you have a nice home, are you being hospitable enough? If you have, let's say, a good singing voice by talent, are you using that to make sure that you're on the, quote-unquote, "praise and worship team," is not, like, entirely wrong, but it's not right either- Yeah to use this passage- Yeah ... for that purpose. There's a bigger theme here. There is, there's a much stronger and widescale framework that God is drawing us to and examine, and it's about the stewardship of the church itself.  [00:46:30] Tony Arsenal: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  [00:46:31] The Foolish Servant Exposed [00:46:31] Tony Arsenal: That's really key, and this is what struck me as, as you were speaking about that, is like we see in so many of the kinda like, uh, like the chump in the parable. Like, there's- Yeah ... a lot of these parables have like a chump- Right ... where like you're looking at and you're like, nothing about what you've decided to do makes any sense. We're talking about people who've been given, in the first case, 100 years worth of, worth of wages. Right. Right? Any one of these people, and again, we're talking about a timeframe where, like, you could just take that money and run and, like, nobody's gonna find you. There's no digital trail on any of this, right? If I stole, if I stole 100 years worth of labor from my manager or from my, my employer, they would find me, right? That's not the situation we're talking about. So even the chump who decided, "I'm not gonna do anything with this," he could've just take- taken off with the money and had 20 years worth of labor. Right. Just 20 years worth of wages. Right. This is a, this is a sum of money that makes all f- all three of these servants unimaginably wealthy instantly, right? The point of this is, in part, that the final servant has no idea the amazing blessing and responsibility that he's been given. And again, I come back to this. It's not because he is dumb or because he is, um, somehow less competent in a strict sense, right? It, it's so funny to me, like, we also gloss over the fact that, like, the guy who has five talents, he's got 100 years worth of money, 100 years worth of wages. Right. And he just goes and gets 100 more. Like- Right he just goes and trades and- Right ... comes up with 100 years worth of wages that he brings back. Like, that's, in itself is, like, phenomenally, amazingly outrageous. We ran into this too with the, um, the parable of the unmerciful servant, right? We've, we've got one guy who's got this unimaginable debt, like, like, thousands of years worth of, uh, worth of wages that he could never make up, and he thinks he's gonna somehow come up with it if you just give him enough time. It's kind of like the opposite here. This guy's got this unimaginable amount of instant wealth, and he just buries it in the ground. First of all, how much... We're also talking about an era where money was a physical, entirely physical.  [00:48:53] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:48:53] Tony Arsenal: There were no, there were no digital banks. Like- No zeros and ones most of our money exists as ones and zeros in a computer program right now. Right. Like, in reality, like- Right ... my money doesn't exist. We don't have, like, a physical gold standard anymore in America. Jesse could probably s- I'm probably making dumb things up right now. No, that's that's- Like, it used- Right on to be that, like, every dollar that the United States government printed had, like, a piece of gold sitting at Fort Knox- Yes ... uh, like backing it up, but we just don't have that anymore. Most of the money that exists in our system is entirely imaginary. It's an entirely, like, made-up digital currency way before, like, Bitcoin was a thing. That's not the case in this timeframe. This dude who buried 20 years worth of money in the ground, that's a significant amount of labor in and of itself- Right ... to even be able to do that. So we're not talking about, like... And I think this is the thing we miss when we, when we read the word talents, and one, when we obscure it and we, like, we misappropriate the word talent to mean, like, abilities, 'cause it, that's a convenient, like, illustration tool. We're talking about a huge sum of probably gold or silver that this dude just buries in the ground, and then, like, digs it up when the master comes back.  [00:50:01] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:50:01] Tony Arsenal: And I think, like- When we don't realize how much money this is, we miss the force of the master's like, "You stupid, dumb, wicked, slothful servant." Like, if you had even taken this money to the bank and done the least imaginable- Yes ... effort. Exactly. Like, if you had done anything at all, like how mu- how difficult, granted more difficult back in this age than it is now, but like if you had even done something as simple requiring as little labor as possible and just brought this to the bank and let them collect interest on it, we'd still be talking about a huge return. [00:50:35] Jesse Schwamb: That's right.  [00:50:36] Tony Arsenal: And he doesn't even do that, and that's, that's the point. There's the people who do, and they gloss over this. The parable totally glosses over the amazing effort and work that it must have taken to take 100 years worth of la- of wages and turn it into 200 years worth of wages. Right. Or to take 40 years worth of wages and turn it into 80 years worth of wages. That's an amazing, probably almost miraculous return on, on investment. Whatever they did is amazing, and the parable's like, "Yeah, they did that." They just took it to the traders and they brought back five more talents. Like, it's nothing. And then this idiot, and I say idiot in like the most like, like exegetically sound, idios, like, like foolish idiot person. [00:51:20] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:51:20] Tony Arsenal: This idiot just buries it in the ground and doesn't even bother to bring it to the bank where he's gonna get some return on it. This is the picture of the fool who does not make use of the means of salvation. This is the picture of the fool who refuses to receive Christ as savior, who refuses to make use of the benefit and blessing of salvation that is available to all who will trust in Christ and turn to him. This is the same picture as the idiot virgins who didn't buy enough oil and just fell asleep when they knew that the bridegroom was coming, right? Right. It's not that they fell asleep, it's that they didn't do the most obvious, simple,

We watched.  We judged.  We discussed.   Listen in as Janette and MM give their opinions and thoughts on the Summer House Season 10 reunion - without the aide of a beta blocker. Let's be honest, pretty sure if West and Amanda would just take our advice, all would be right with the world.    Chat highlights: Who returns to the house?  Will the relationship last? When does Sally join?  Can someone give Jesse a hug?    While their season may be over - ChickChat summer is just beginning!

David King from Gulf Wind Technology returns to discuss serial uptower blade repairs, passive load shedding, and data-driven testing. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly newsletter on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard’s StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on YouTube, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary’s “Engineering with Rosie” YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Welcome to Uptime Spotlight, shining light on wind energy’s brightest innovators. This is the progress powering tomorrow Allen Hall : David, welcome back to the program.  David King: Yeah, I’m so glad to be here. A lot’s happened since the last time I was on, so, uh, this is gonna be great.  Allen Hall : It’s been about a year. Mm-hmm. And last year we were at OM&S in Nashville, and you were talking about root fusion, and this is the insert fix uptower for the blade inserts, right? So we’re having a lot of blade bolt issues, and the inserts are starting to pull out or become loose, and the blades are moving around. A lot of our operators in the States are trying to solve that problem, and they don’t wanna remove the blades and bring anything down tower. They would like to fix it uptower. That’s where your solution came in. How’s that going?  David King: Yeah, so I mean, it, it’s really been a five-year journey for us. I mean, we’ve been doing this- I remember that, yeah … for a [00:01:00] very long time. You know, it started like any process does, with a problem statement. Sure. And we’ve been working through from problem statement, you know, going through process development, going through structural development, going through pilots. Uh, we did a, a huge pilot deployments about three years ago, where those were being monitored. Um, we’re now in a position where we’re in serial deployment, and that’s what’s really exciting. You know, we’re doing about 200 blades a year, uh, of, of serial deployment. We’ve, we’ve done that now, uh, we’re going into our second year of that. Nice. So we’re extremely excited by that. That comes with its own sets of challenges as you scale up. How do you maintain quality? We even touched a little bit on a few of these things last year. Um, but yeah, we’re really excited to be doing that. Uh, we’re trying to keep it, you know, again, process-driven. How do you simplify a process that allows you to scale up appropriately, train people appropriately? A- a- and that’s what we’re really excited about this year, is being able to bring this, uh, so that we’re not, um, you know, basically supply constrained, ’cause there is a lot of demand for this, and still able to maintain a very high level of, of quality as we, [00:02:00] we scale up. Allen Hall : Yeah, and that’s the key to all sort of repairs in the wind industry. You like to do it once and be done with the life of the turbine. Now, so you’re going uptower. You’re drilling some holes up along the blade, injecting those with a resin system, curing it, basically reinforcing what is already there That all makes sense to me. Engineering-wise, that makes sense to me. But a- again, it goes back to the technicians and the training and the deployment of it. Are you starting to train technicians, bring them in, show them how to use the, use the machines and, and get them out in the field so they are ready to go? It, it… ‘Cause it seems like you’re at that threshold now. David King: No, absolutely. So we, we believe in people first, right? Yeah. People at the end of the day make things happen. And so, you know, the best ways to do that is give people the right tools to be successful, and where that comes from is training. That’s a huge part of it. We have a, a certified training program that we run. Uh, it started out as an internal program we were running. It basically has five levels to it. Uh, we’ve now extended that to, uh, enabling, uh, you know, basically [00:03:00] preferred partners to be able to take part in that training, uh, to be able to utilize modular kits, pumps and equipment, to be able to, you know, go out and meet that demand that’s out there, but do so in a way that’s, uh, controlled. Yeah. And so really that comes back to that certified training program. And really, you know, level one is about a lot of your basic safety, procedural base type, uh, you know, making sure people are competent, uh, they’re not gonna get themselves hurt. Right. They’ve got the right personality traits about focus, uh, you know, detail focus and things like that. Yeah. Uh, level two to that program is, is really about, um, basically getting people to a stage in which they can be a, uh, team member. Uh, they’re able to be on a team and contribute to that team in an effective manner, be in the field.  Allen Hall : That’s really important. A lot of-  David King: Absolutely …  Allen Hall : companies miss that aspect of being a team member instead of an individual. Yeah, you have to work with other people. Yeah. It’s, it’s critical.  David King: It’s massively important. Personalities clash. You’ve got to be able to work through that sort of thing. And so that level one to level two is really kind of taking your green horn hat off and putting, “Okay, I, I, I can be on this team and I’m, I’m a, a contributing [00:04:00] member.” And then at level three, that’s your team leads. Those are people that are leading teams. They’re leaders. They’re up and coming. They’ve got a career path, career trajectory. Level four is our mentors. That’s the people that are going out there and that are basically qualified to now actually mentor other people in the field. Allen Hall : Yeah.  David King: And then your level five is train the trainer. How do you grow more trainers so that you’re not constrained on that training factor? And that, that’s kind of how we, we typically run training.  Allen Hall : Uh, and Gulf Wind has the ability to do that. I mean, I’ve been to your facilities, they’re impressive, and that’s one of the limitations for a lot of companies. They don’t have the facilities to train people, and they don’t have the resources you do. That opens up a lot of opportunities. Obviously, you’re in the composite repair business. You have crews out fixing wind turbine blades. Some of the more complex ones is what I hear. I mean, I hear it secondarily, but I assume that’s what’s happening. What are, are the areas that you get called in on to do composite repairs?  David King: We, we really do anything that stops somebody else. Okay. So we wanna be there when there’s a problem where you’re like, “I don’t know where to go next. Uh, this is a big [00:05:00] problem. We’re unsure. Maybe there’s a new technology at play. Maybe it’s, uh, a carbon spar cap. Maybe it’s something, uh…” You know, obviously the root stuff that’s very complicated. Sure. And, uh, it’s just gonna require a little bit more engineering. It’s gonna require a little bit more rigor, and that- that’s where we say, look, we, we can, whether it means testing something, verifying something, training somebody on a process, developing a process- Yeah or just doing something complicated, that’s where we excel.  Allen Hall : Well, that- that’s what I hear from the road is, uh, Gulf Winds here and I think, “Uh-oh. You must have a really serious problem because you’re calling in the experts to do the, the difficult things.” Carbon pultrusions, carbon fabric in, in blades today is such a massive problem because it’s not, it’s not fiberglass. It’s just a lot more to deal with, and some of the loading issues we’re finding and, boy, it’s just all over the place. They need Gulf Winds Technology to, to come on site to give them a hand. Now, a- as part of the growth of the business, and you guys have been growing. Every year I, I see they’re just… it’s just a little bit bigger, a little more [00:06:00] people. I walked on LinkedIn and hiring some engineers and some people to work over the summertime. That’s all great. What’s the structure look like now? How are you trying to organize yourself as a business?  David King: Yeah, so we really break down into three different structures. We have our service division, and that’s, um, putting people out there to solve problems in the field. As simple as it gets, right? It’s like you’ve got a problem, we’ve got the right people with the right solutions, and they’re gonna go deliver, uh, a result. Um, and then we’ve got an engineering division. That’s about developing problems. It also has a lot to do with IP. You know, things like root fusion, that’s a pat- protected technology. Sure. All of our technology, we do a lot of investments in, in, you know, patent protection and IP work, and so that sits inside that engineering division. Uh, it’s how we, we have the smarts of the company kinda sat in there. Uh, it also is what allows us to really get into some of these, uh, kinda juicy problem statements that are a little bit prickly maybe. Uh, and we love getting into those and solving them. Yeah. And then the third and final thing is the composite side of things, and that’s the, the manufacturing. That’s that 30,000 square [00:07:00] foot composite manufacturing facility where we wanna be the best in vacuum infusion. We wanna be the best in prepreg, the best in pultrusions, complex assemblies, and be trying to de- uh, just deliver really high-quality composites to the industry. Allen Hall : Yeah, and you have the equipment to do a lot of testing. And I think a, a lot of operators don’t realize what you have And the knowledge that’s sitting there, when I run into operators across the country that have complicated issues, particularly if they have carbon, I mean, oh my gosh, you, you need to be calling experts here. And if they have issues they haven’t really sussed out, they don’t know, they don’t understand the engineering that went into that blade, they need to be talking to you guys about Why is this blade designed the way it is? How should I approach this? Do I need to be turning my turbines off until I figure out a solution? A lot of times there’s not a lot of resources there because the, the designs are more complex than ever. But on the, on the same hand, I would say they’re not doing a lot of testing of their own materials. [00:08:00] David King: Yeah, and there’s a huge space for that. And which is crazy. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s definitely a gap. It is. And we see it as a gap that needs to be filled. Yes. And so that’s where, you know, we, we say you’ve gotta give the engineers the tools to be successful. Sure. And so what are those tools? You know, that could be anything from what does an aerodynamicist need? They might need a metrology scanner. Right. So we do 70 million plus point scans of full blades. We’ve done now a full blade scan and, uh, I think we did it in about an hour, which was a, a new record of how quickly you could get 70 million points on a blade. Wow. And then that allowed- Uptower  Allen Hall : or  David King: downtower? It was downtower. Okay. Okay. It was outside in the field, but it was downtower. Okay. It’s still impressive. So that was a little, little, little bit easier than uptower. Sure. Maybe that’s next. Um- Yeah. But, um, no, and then so what can you do with that? Well, then you can go, uh, really analyze, you know, the performance of that blade. Maybe you can go do something in a wind tunnel with it. So coming back to that toolkit- Yep … an aerodynamicist needs a wind tunnel. We have aerodynamicists, so we have a wind tunnel. Then going on to, like, a structural engineer. What does a structural engineer need? Well, they need their FE tools. They need some good first principle approaches to, to structures. But they also need test equipment. Right. They need to be [00:09:00] able to develop and characterize materials both in static and fatigue. And so we’ve made a lot of investment in those sort of test equipment, uh, so that we can, we can put numbers to things. You know, I think the wind industry needs more data. Less speculation and more data-driven decisions, and the, where that starts is really building up that test base. And we, we believe in this thing called the testing pyramid, and what it is is, like, you’ve gotta characterize the material. That’s where you’re gonna have thousands of samples. Right. That’s your tensile, double lap shear testing, all the basics. Then you do your subcomponents. Add some geometry into that, that- Add some shape. Exactly. Maybe that’s hundreds of samples. And then you’re gonna go on top of that to, like, your full component. And look, we don’t have a blade test stand yet, but- Right … that’s kind of that, that space. And then the final top of that pyramid is go do it in the field, get results- Run it … and then run that back into your design cycles. And I think the more we can do that as an industry, the more successful we’re gonna be as an industry.  Allen Hall : Yeah, and I think a lot of operators don’t think they have to participate in that, and they’re sadly mistaken. And the fact that the industry has grown as fast as it has means [00:10:00] there’s some holes in some of the engineering that maybe they didn’t consider the, the site assessment properly or they didn’t understand some of the manufacturing variability. Now you own this product, you’re gonna have to do some of the homework that maybe the OEM should have done. It’s your site. You own it. And a lot of times I think, uh, as an owner/operator, they don’t realize there’s resources. Like, okay, well maybe do some mechanical testing. Maybe the repairs I had last summer aren’t working out the way that I think. Maybe I need to look at some materials  David King: and see if- And we want you to own your data. Well, that’s exactly it, right? That’s really what it comes down to is like you wanna own the data, know your blades, know your products, whether it’s, you know… I know you’re very, uh, you know, uh, specialized in lighting, really know your stuff. Everybody’s gotta take that same approach. Know your stuff- You need to know it … or go find the experts that know it- Right … and work with them. Yeah.  Allen Hall : Well, at, at this point in the industry’s growth, you realize who’s all percolated towards the top, right? You, you, you see the companies like Goldwind that have the expertise in-house and, and have established themselves as a [00:11:00] knowledge center, as a resource for the US and globally, and there’s only a couple of those spread around the world in that- We as an industry need to be utilizing you more to help us solve problems. Because if I don’t tell Gulf Wind what’s going on, Gulf Wind can’t help come to a solution.  David King: And we find that really, like, just the more you know, you start finding all sorts of new opportunities. Yeah. ‘Cause we almost learn what you don’t know, in a way. You kind of realize that, like, there’s so much more out there. Yeah. And that’s where it gets really exciting. That’s where it’s like you can get these novel solutions, people who take creative approaches. Um, and, and I really think that’s what’s gonna take this industry forward, especially now when, you know, there are some headwinds for wind. And all that means is we’ve gotta get sharper, and we’ve gotta be, uh, more agile. And I think it’s actually almost times like this that create some of the best, uh, behaviors in an industry to, uh, take it forward into the future really.  Allen Hall : Yeah. Wind’s not gonna go anywhere, but it’s being stressed a little bit. And in those stress points, we need to take the time to reflect and to make the industry [00:12:00] stronger. But in order to do that, we need to be relying upon the sources that we have. There are global sources. There are so many resources to touch into. I think you guys are, are doing amazing things. Obviously, being down in your facility, seeing the wind tunnel, just blown away by that. Seeing the mechanical testing, seeing the, the 3D printing of air foils and all that work you’re doing, plus the ability to scan blades, do large scale studies. I remember one was on CMS at the time, thinking, “All right. Somebody’s, somebody’s actually doing the right thing. There’s a study happening so we can understand what’s happening in CMS.” Like, those things need to happen as an industry to grow.  David King: Oh, absolutely. And I know you and I were at WOMA- Yes … quite recently. Yeah. And we heard about that LEP study. Yes. And what a prime example- … of people going out there, getting real life data. Yes. And then, uh, making it accessible so that people can make smart decisions, and again, drive the cost of energy down and make wind successful. It’s, it’s amazing.  Allen Hall : It, uh- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the transfer of knowledge is the key, right? And you guys are involved [00:13:00] in looking at some, what LEP will do to improve a blade, but also what leading edge damage will do to erode performance. Those are some of the things that a lot of operators don’t understand. Like, is that blade being in that damaged form even affecting my AEP? It depends on the turbine, I think, a lot of times. But you better be asking the question at least. Talk to somebody who knows.  David King: Yeah. ‘Cause it, it’s really interesting. I mean, you know, I think it so much drives back to that business case for the operator, and they all have their own approaches. And, and really- Yeah you know, most people are repairing LEP when it becomes structural. That’s the- That’s right … that’s the predominant approach. And, you know, I understand that approach very… You know, I, I get it from an operator’s point of view. Um, but yeah, there’s definitely, uh, other things you could do to try and make a, a data-based business decision. Um- Sure.  Allen Hall : Sure. Now, what are some of the cool new things that Gulf Wind is working on, that you haven’t announced to the world yet, but you’d like to announce? I know you’ve been working on things. I’ve seen all the white papers being published. There’s some things- Back behind the scenes, what’s new?  David King: Yeah. I mean, so, you know, you take something like Roof [00:14:00] Fusion, right? Right. Which is a long process to develop. So we, knowing that everything that, uh, you have as an idea is gonna take almost maybe three, four, five years to actually bring to market- Sure … we’re always starting on this constant cycle of development. Right. And so the things- You know  Allen Hall : it’s gonna be five years. David King: Exactly. Yeah. And so, you know, I mean, it’s like the patents on this stuff take three, four, five years to work out. Yeah. And so it- it’s a very important part of the entire process. Yeah. But to, to answer your question, we do have some exciting things both in the aero side, uh, side of the world. Uh, we have been doing a lot of development work around, uh, basically, uh, passive load shedding, so the ability for a turbine, or actually any structure, to be able to react to the wind in a passive manner. Uh, so you don’t need any sort of mechanicals. You don’t need anything, uh, that’s going to break in the field, and the structure itself is able to actually react to the load that’s coming onto it and change its aerodynamic, uh, profile and change its load that it’s experiencing. So you get these… Uh, that’s a very interesting new technology. Yes. Uh, it’s something that we’ve been working on for about three or four years now. It’s now, uh, [00:15:00] getting demonstrated, uh, which we’re very excited about. Uh, we also have some technologies, uh, around new connection types between metal and composites. So this is, uh, something that’s, uh, probably got a lot of, um, application in aerospace, but I think it’s also gonna find its way into wind. And this is just a new way of really trying to fix some of the problematic joints that we’ve been dealing with now for the last few years, but looking forward, not looking backward. Yeah. Right. Sure. Not being retroactive. Right. But how do we do that next generation of roof pushing design, for example? And we’ve got a really exciting method for that, that, uh, is been tested now. We have test results for it, and they look extremely good. Uh, we also are making some major CapEx investments this year into- Sure … new manufacturing equipment. So we have, um, some… I, I would say some, some pretty advanced, um, automation we’re trying to bring to composite manufacturing- Okay … around pre-preg carbon fibers and things like that, which is gonna be very, very exciting I think. Uh, I hope it finds its way into the wind industry. It’ll probably start in other industries. Sure. Maybe kind of this, uh, [00:16:00] subsea, you know, and, uh, and air, uh, space first- Sure … you know, around UAVs, ROVs- Sure … that sort of thing. But I think it’s also gonna have applications in wind, and we’re really, really excited about that. Well,  Allen Hall : that’s good because it, it does seem like wind is downstream of a lot of aerospace things ’cause it does, definitely costs money to develop those, and aerospace is a place where that can happen. However- If you work out all the kinks and you solve all the manufacturing issues, it is directly applicable to wind. David King: And it’s massive volume. The beautiful thing about wind is that the volume, when you get something right and you do it right, you get to deploy technology. Yeah. Yes. You, you get to take it off the shelf- Right … and put it in the world and make it happen, which is, there’s nothing more exciting as an engineer. Allen Hall : Well, I mean, in, in terms of blade manufacturing, how many times have we talked about automating that so we have less things like wrinkles and some ply issues, overlaps, those kind of things where automation would help, but we just haven’t really refined it enough to i- implement it at a large scale in a blade factory. David King: Exactly. And it’s always usually too bespoke, you know? It is. It’s like you solve the problem for the, the 40-meter blade, and now- Right … there’s a [00:17:00] 45-meter blade, and we need all new CapEx. Right. And then it doesn’t, uh, doesn’t scale well.  Allen Hall : That doesn’t scale at all. No. Right. So that’s why they haven’t done it, is because they know the next generation of blade is coming. It’s another 10 meters longer, and that’s not gonna fit in this building, and doesn’t make sense- We’re in trouble … to buy the equipment.  David King: Yeah, exactly.  Allen Hall : Right. So it, it, it’s a- Yeah … it’s a constant evolving industry. Now, I, I had looked at your load shedding patent application or patent. Maybe it came out as a patent. David King: Yep.  Allen Hall : Mm-hmm. Okay. I wanna understand that a little bit since I’m here talking to you now. The load shedding piece was because, uh, you’re in Louisiana, that’s where hurricanes- Come up … every once in a while, if people haven’t read the papers. But the load shedding technology makes sense because now you can deploy wind turbines in places that you otherwise may not do it because of the risk of typhoons, hurricanes, even tornadoes on some level, some odd wind situations. You wanna explain what that technology is? Yeah.  David King: Really what it’s doing is it’s trying to decouple the, uh, turbine’s ability to protect itself from its requirement to maintain power and maintain [00:18:00] control. So if you have something that relies on electrical hydraulics or anything like that- Yeah … it’s gonna be extremely susceptible to failing, uh, when- Yes there’s a grid outage or when you have a battery that fails or, you know, most airplanes require, like, dual redundancy or triple- Triple … triple redundancy because of that very reason, and we just can’t afford to do that in wind. No. And so the innovation then that gets required is you have to have something that’s passive, something where the structure itself has been designed in a way where the laminate is designed in a way where it’s going to not react progressively like a linear fashion as you apply load, right? It keeps bending and bending and bending. Right, right, right. But it’s gonna have quite a sudden reaction to a very particular load case. And so that’s what we’ve been able to do is-  Allen Hall : Okay …  David King: basically construct that laminate in a way where when it, the right load is applied, in this case, that’s the, the hurricane load or the extreme load- Right we can shed that load, uh, completely by the structure simply reacting to the load, and that’s very exciting for wind. It has a lot of other applications ’cause- Sure it does … basically allowing you to hinge composites. We now can- Right … with [00:19:00] composites almost in an origami fashion, hinge them any way we want, which is really, really exciting. Nice. And we’re excited to bring that now to other areas besides just wind and, and wind will be a key one as well.  Allen Hall : Sure it will. Yeah. Wow, okay. That’s cool. I mean, that’s why I follow Gulf Wind Technology on LinkedIn to see all the cool things that are coming out because, uh, if, if you’re thinking about- What’s new, what’s next. There’s probably three or four places, honestly, in the world that I rely upon, DTE being one, Fraunhofer being another, and then Gulf Wind Technology. Like, okay, let’s… So they tram for it here. I… Let’s, let’s see what’s going on this week. That’s amazing. And I, I know that as you guys get more experience out in the field and people will start to recognize the name, it’s just only gonna grow to something even bigger. So that, that’s fantastic. I know you, you spend a lot of time making  David King: this business go. We’re de- definitely very excited about it. Yeah. But with, with growth comes, you know, a, a discipline. Right. You have to be very disciplined. Yes. And so that’s something, you know, we’ve gotta be very focused on. Yeah. That’s where things like that certified training program are important. Yes. It’s where [00:20:00] how we patent things is very important. Yes. How we, uh, you know, kind of set up company structure is very important. So I know we touched on a few of those subjects today. Yeah. But those are really just about trying to be able to maintain quality as we grow. A- and that’s really important to our customers, it’s important to us, and it’s how we maintain the brand. Allen Hall : We gotta get back down to Louisiana. I’m really curious to see what’s happening inside the buildings and see where you’re at, because, uh, I know there’s great things happening there. And I really appreciate the time. Thank you for coming over to Australia. I thought your, your talks and your, your presentation and being on panels in Australia was really insightful to a lot of Australians, because you’re just bringing a different viewpoint into that marketplace. And, and that’s what Gulf Wind does. So I, I appreciate all that effort. And, uh, yeah, we should connect up this summer. Come down and check out what’s going on.  David King: Absolutely. If you’re willing to brave the heat- Oh, no. … you are always welcome. And our aim is that every time you come to that factory, hopefully it’s like a, a whole new world. We wanna surprise you with something new, because, uh, that’s the only way we can demonstrate progress.  Allen Hall : Oh, that’s a deal.  David King: So.  Allen Hall : Okay, great. Well, thank you,  David King: Dave. Great to see [00:21:00] you. Thanks  Allen Hall : for being on the  David King: podcast. Thank you very much.

Part one of Kiera's conversation with Howard Farran on the Dentaltown podcast. They discuss how many details a dentist should know about their business, what about the COVID-19 pandemic still haunts practices, the AI of dentistry and the human care of patients, hidden gaps draining profitability, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera. And today we are sharing a guest interview I did on another podcast. And it was too valuable not to bring you guys here.   this episode, you're gonna hear this host lead the conversation and then I'll wrap us up at the end. I cannot wait. It was truly one of my most   episodes and I truly hope you enjoy.   The Dental A Team (00:17) It's just a huge honor for me today to bring back Kiera Dent. How are you doing, Kiera? my gosh, Howard. It's so great to be back. I remember my very first podcast with you. I was actually at an office in Alabama and I went like hid in this room because I was starstruck podcasting with you. So to be able to be back on the show with you ⁓ several years later is just fun. I love what you guys are doing. I love Dentaltown. I love your posts. so it's really fun to be back. So thank you. ⁓ the honor is all mine. Just remember Kiera likes Shakira.   And Dent is just her nickname. The full name is Dental Queen Goddess. So thank you. And ⁓ she is the founder and CEO of the Dental A Team, committed to elevating dentists and their teams to their highest level through customized in-office and virtual consulting and training. Her vast experience ranges from the front office to assistant, regional manager, and dental practice owner, giving her a perspective few consultants can claim.   She and her team work with hundreds of dental practices nationwide and confidently say we don't just understand you, we are you. Among her many accomplishments, Ciara has grown a practice from 500,000 to 2.4 million in just nine months with a doctor straight out of dental school. She's coached hundreds of practices, authored numerous articles, and designed a customizable operations manual manual that serves as a roadmap for systems and team success.   Her Dental A Team podcast has amassed nearly 2 million downloads, making it one of the most impactful resources in all of dentistry. Kiera lives every day by her core values. Do the right thing, ownership, passion for excellence, ease, grit, innovator, die, and fun. Her motto says it all. There is always a solution. And my gosh, I just want to tell you the truth. And the reason I was so excited to bring you on. It seems like dentistry has turned into two groups of dentists.   There's all the old farts like me who, you know, we had, you know, we had great practices, great lives, great careers. And then you got these younger dentists that look at us and say, ⁓ man, you graduated in the good old days. You know, you didn't have five hundred thousand dollars of student loans, you didn't have DSOs, Delta hasn't given us a raise in four generations, and and and they're mad at the ADA. I think they're even mad at their mom. I I they're I think so and they're not happy. Do you have any good news?   For these dental graduates with $500,000 of student loans, or did they make the wrong decision and should have become a plumber? I mean, you know, plumbing is always a backup plan if dentistry doesn't work. So I think you're like at least in that realm. Like, you know, there's always options. But I love dentistry and I actually, ⁓ I think we're actually in the best time of dentistry. And I know that yes, there's the good old days. Then Howard, those were great days for you. But I think like, how many options do people have now? We have AI, we have these innovations, and I mean.   Your my example of a student straight out of dental school, we actually had one million. So I actually called her 2.5 because we had $2.5 million. So from student debt to practice loan debt to buying another location, all within a couple of months of us starting the practice. And so I called her 2.5 every time I walked past her. I was like, get that back straight, girl. Like we got 2.5 mil of debt on us. but to be able to grow our practice in nine months was   Absolutely incredible. And I think that that's where dentistry is amazing. There is no cap, there is no ceiling, and you have a way to truly impact and change people's lives. And I'm like, you have DSOs as options. Like there were not the times where you were getting the multiples that you get today. You also have like there are so many avenues that dentistry can afford you. but I think it's a it's a matter of what you choose to focus on, is what you're going to find more of. If you want to sit here and say, ⁓ my gosh, it's awful. We have 500,000 of debt. And I'm like, Yeah, but guess what? My husband had   Not quite the same, but we had several hundreds, thousands of dollars of debt. And he's a pharmacist. And so I understand what it's like to come out of school and have hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt on us. But guess what? He's making, you know, hundred, hundred and fifty. If we're lucky on a good day, we're capped out. It took us forever to pay back our student loans. But as dentistry, you have untapped and uncapped potential. And so for me, you get to change people's lives, you get to give them confidence, you get to help them have better health, and you're able to make people smile like.   I can't think of a better opportunity to be a part of. And I'm not just Pollyanna over here. I coach hundreds and thousands of offices. I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly, and the in between. But I'll tell you, depending upon how you choose to view this, you can either find the good or the bad. And I'd recommend like, let's find the great because it's a gold line of opportunity if you want to see it. What what do you say to dentists who say, Mm-mm, you know, I I really don't want to complain really a bit. I mean, on paper my   My practice looks perfect. I got two hygienists. I do a million dollars. I do all this, but just internally it just feels chaotic and stressful. So it looks like on paper he's doing everything right. But she says, I still feel like chaos and stress. What's what's that about? I think like welcome to being a business owner. I think that there's two sides of success. In the word success, there's literally the word suck. Like there are parts of success that are going to suck. Like that's just how it is, guys.   And so that chaos and internal turmoil, I think I there I have lots of offices where you don't have to be that way. And I think going from like operator doing all the pieces, being stressed out into like a CEO of a business. ⁓ I think sometimes dentists are such gunners doers, they're so hands-on that they have this internal chaos. But there there are paths again that don't have to be that way. But I also think this is part of the game of business that we signed up for. And I think when you get to the level like Howard.   You've seen, I've seen over our career, we've got the gunners and the doers and the like zero to two year business owners. Like it's freaking chaos. It's psycho. Like you're learning these things just like you're back in dental school. But as you mature, you start to realize that the chaos is just part of the game. And the more you're able to learn to weather it, to see it, and to not do all the pieces, elevate your team, get great people, do like hire it out. You can hire, I mean, a practice is doing a million and you got great profitability and overhead.   You can hire a lot of great people to take away a lot of your problems. And so like, let's get some of those things done. And then you actually become happier and you make more money. So that you don't have to sit in that chaos. I think that there's a part of it that will always suck. but there's also a part that can really be the successful part too, that's fulfillment and enjoyment. But you got to make the steps and take the steps to do it rather than just sit and complain about it.   Love it, love it, love it. ⁓ what do you what do you say about the ⁓ the dentist who got out of school, goes and works for a major DSO, say say he's working for Rick Workman, Heartland, and he works there two years, and you know, he you know, he's working for a guy that owns eighteen, nineteen hundred dental offices, but he can't tell you the code for a profit. Can't he'll say, like, you know, are they paying my pay right? Really? You can't check at you. I mean, it it's like   It's like they'll listen to a forty hour lecture on the difference between two different composites, but they did I mean th they worked through two years, they don't know insurance codes, they can't check out a patient, they don't know the software. I mean, I had one guy tell me, ⁓ the only thing you could tell me about the practice manager software is the brand name. He couldn't tell me and then he's asking me, you know, it what which one you know, but anyway, do you think do you think a dentist doesn't need to know all the business details?   Or do you think that's a blind spot and you can't delegate anything till you can do it and master it? I think that there's two types of owners. And I think that there's some that are really great at hiring people that they are great at hiring people, knowing it, listening to podcasts, hiring coaches, training the team, and like having somebody spot check for you. Then there's others that like they've got to know the ins and outs. But I think that like Howard, there's   To me, there's also a middle ground where I think that you can go sit with your biller for one day and just like say, like, walk me through your process. So you have a general idea and an understanding of what they do. Go watch to see how they schedule. ⁓ I think when it comes to billing, I do think the dentists have a very big blind spot. And to me, that is like as a business owner, not to know how your money comes to you. To me, that feels like a pretty big blind spot of like even just understanding that knowledge. And so   If I were to say, I don't think you need to know the ins and outs. I love like I recognize this. I was a business owner of it. I own practices. I worked with hundreds of dentists at Midwestern University's Dental College. Like, I hear what you guys are taught. Plus, I'm a team member on the other side. And so I created a billing course and an office manager course because I just want a dentist to know like, what should I be able to expect? And I think like if you want to just have a general overview so you don't get blindsided, you you can have it. I think you can quickly within like a week.   Know the bulk of like everything you need to know in a practice very simply, very easily. So that way you can delegate. That way you can have it. You're not gonna be perfect. but I think just having a general awareness. And then I love to give doctors just a quick checklist, like once a month, go spot check, go grab an EOB. Even if you don't know what the heck that EOB is, go ask your front office for it, check it. And just the more you learn that language, just like the language of business, I think it doesn't need to be an overnight sensation.   But I do think the more you're aware of it, I don't think you have to do every single role though to be a successful practice owner. And I mean, shoot, if Heartland can do it, I think it's a good example. But I think who are you? And are you a hands-on tactical person? Are you somebody who's really good at hiring people, t trusting other people, getting the checklist and spot checking? I think you can do it either way. But my recommendation is like just like one week, go like sit in every seat of your practice and get a general awareness and educate yourself on the things that you don't know. I'm really big on money, understanding at least how insurance works. And then also how do we like   present cases, what are kind of the flow that way those big zones that really impact your financials, you can you can be aware of. So those courses, those online CE courses, your website is The Dental A Team. The Dental A Team. Now I think the A Team, you need that guy with the Mohawk and all the bling. I mean that's who I am in my like spare time. This hair is just a facade. Like, you know, I hang out as Mr T. Mr T. Mr T, Mr T, yeah.   That's why I was thinking the A Team, but is that on your on your website, the th those courses? Yeah, they are. So we have an online library, it's all C E. We've got downloadable checklists, we've got operations manual. You got it. That's exactly right. And Howard, in real time, I'll have our marketing team actually put together a code. If you guys put in Dentaltown, since you're listening, we'll make sure that you guys get a coupon code for that as well. Well, since it's my compass podcast IRS that you just put Fabio.   you want Fabio? Okay. well in that case. So ⁓ so is I also see you have a ⁓ Summit twenty twenty six is live on Friday, April twenty fourth. Grab your ticket. Where's where's that show gonna be? Is it Reno where you are? You know, that's actually virtual, Howard, and it's one of our like favorite comebacks constantly. And the reason I do it virtual, people have been asking me for years, like, why don't you do it in person, Kiera? And what I found is   Because it's so like again as a team member, I really struggle to get my team ramped up, amped up, and have it be financially affordable. So what I found is if we can have it virtual in your practice with your full team, you guys are able to get this boost and surge of energy and have a good time. So it's for leadership teams, it's for doctors. ⁓ we've been doing it for six years strong and we tend to have hundreds of offices. You get your whole office there, you have a good time.   But yeah, it's virtual and it's C E and it's a great time. ⁓ I attend a lot of Tony Robbins, a lot of Brendan Bouchard, Rachel Hollis. So we've learned how to do people have told me the online experience is so fun. ⁓ we just get continual people coming back year after year after year. So yeah, come join us. It'd be a great time. I love Tony Robbins because ⁓ you know, my boys they wrestled year round from age five to fifteen.   Yeah. Made our garage. I got two real wrestling mats from the manufacturer in Pennsylvania delivered by an AJ Miller. So I never ever parked in my garage ever. And we would we were listening to that Tony Robbins 30 day, 30 day personal power. Yep. And then I and then I bought my first laptop when I went to MBA school. And so I took notes on it. And then when I was done, I I ⁓ closed down Saturday and I went to a studio Saturday, Sunday, and I ranted out my notes.   And I said, this has got to be 30 hours because I mean it's still Tony Robbins 30 day personal power. And that was the 30-day dental MBA. ⁓ and it worked out to be about thirty hours. But I'm telling you, the pandemic changed everything. That was when ⁓ online CE at Dentaltown just went through the roof and it hasn't come back and dental meetings haven't come back. Cause why do I need to fly to Chicago to listen to you if I got a Zoom call or   or streaming video or this event. I mean, I mean, just think of the plane ticket, the hotel, the sitting and attending. If you're in Phoenix, you know, just to get to New York is a five hour flight. I mean, why I I gotta fly five hours each way when I could see you on YouTube or a podcast or or whatever. But I wanna but I want to go back to that pandemic because that pandemic, I really think the reason you can really do this so successfully today is because of that pandemic. That's why we realize   I don't have to be in the flesh to learn knowledge. And and like I I I feel fine talking to you. I me too. The only thing I regret is teaching my mother how to do that. I got her FaceTime and all that kind of stuff. And because she calls to tell me about ever every one of her exciting things is junk mail she has. She's eighty seven and she believes every piece of junk mail. I love it. She's always free freaking out on her junk mail. But but I want to talk about the pan the dark side of the pandemic.   And that is a lot of people think about 20% of the hygienists left to practice. Before, you know, when I got out of school, your labor was supposed to be twenty percent, your overhead was supposed to be fifty percent. And by the time it was it didn't even take 10 or 20 years, and and due to insurance, I think not keeping up, ⁓ overhead went to basically two thirds. It went to about sixty-five percent and labor went to about twenty five, sometimes twenty-seven percent.   I'm hearing thirty percent labor all the time. And I mean I mean I'm talking about serious dudes who know the business of dentistry. And I don't I don't want to get my buddy Rick Kirstram out of me. He owns a hundred comfort dentals and he said he can't he said he's got the mean and lean where labor is twenty. He says he's got mean and leans with labor at twenty-eight, twenty-eight and a half. So so the the pandemic is ⁓ it that was five years ago. Why do you think it   seriously impacted labor cost of the pandemic. I do, Howard. And I think I think we kind of have this perfect storm, right? Like I think we've got multiple waves coming at us that have impacted. I think the pandemic pushed out those that were like, you know, I'm done. Like, like I'm good. I'm at the end of my career. I don't really want to do that. ⁓ a lot of hygienists are female and I think a lot of them realize they did not need two incomes anymore. And so it's like, you know, I want to be with my kids. I want to be home.   And then hygiene schools don't pump out a lot of hygienists and it's usually like a two year span. So yes, I have actually seen like hygiene is it really did, and then it clicked up. So the cost of hygienist has gone up astronomically. I mean, I think the highest I've seen of a hygienist being paid was 85 an hour. And to me, I was like, at that point, that was up in ⁓ it was up in Washington, up by Bellevue, Mount Vernon, that area. And I literally saw the the posting for 85 plus a a bonus, and I was like,   Screw that at that point. Like in all respect to hygienists, I'm gonna hire a dentist for that cost. Like I truly will. And that's not being disrespectful. It's just like a dentist is a more multifaceted. I understand they are not great hygienists, but if I have to and I'm gonna be putting this number up, like we've got to get to a space where it does work. So yes, I do. However, there are more hygienists coming onto the market. I still know that this is one of the hardest things, but ⁓ I have a practice that's out in Maui, rough life, huh, Howard? I get to fly to Maui to go do work, like.   You know, shout out to that office. ⁓ but what we found is we were able to find a way to get the hygienist to be paid exponentially higher by doing assisted hygiene. And so I think I'm seeing people innovate. I think I'm watching them create. I think I'm seeing people do some more outsourced costs in the front office. And so they're able to then offset the costs of the clinical team. ⁓ I think that people are just getting innovative and creative. And what I want to highlight is while this feels annoying, this is also business. And if we don't innovate and if we don't continue to evolve,   We actually decay and decline as an as an organization and as an industry. And so I know it's annoying and I absolutely empathize. And you're right. Like for me on our payroll, we're at 30%. Like I've had that as our metric for our clients for the last five years because payroll costs have gone up. But I'm like, but just because they've gone up, like let's look at several other industries. I mean, we're not here to like love on or hate on McDonald's, but I'm like, they have kiosks. They figured it out.   I checked in at a hotel in downtown San Francisco. There was no person there when I checked in. It was literally a person on Zoom just like this. I clicked in, they said hello to me. They took my information, but they didn't have to have a physical body in the office. And I think with AI and technology, dentistry is going to evolve, but I think the art and the care of patients does not need to evolve. And so, like, let's put our dollars where that matters and let's be able to look and innovate in other ways that keep our costs low. ⁓ I still think dentistry, I mean, why is there a one percent default rate on loans? Like,   Banks are still lending. We had the first down year of DSOs last year and the first uptick of private practice last year. And so when I look at these things, like it is still a great business to be in, even though labor costs, like, guys, again, it's just another flavor of business. So like let's figure out how to innovate. Let's figure out how to do it. And like, yes, I'm gonna pay for great people. I see team members as assets, not liabilities. And I'm gonna cut and chop on other areas that I can, but I'm also gonna be smart with my labor costs and make sure each person hitting their KPIs, they've got numbers that they're driving.   We are running this as an efficient business while like loving and taking care of our patients at the same time. I'm glad you mentioned bank loans because it's less than one percent default rate. Yes. All the defaults have the same thing in common. They all had their license taken away. Right. Always. And and if it's for drugs or alcohol, they now treat that as a medical disease. And the dentists still say, Screw you, I'm not gonna quit doing biking. And then they run south of the border. And that's why whenever you find a dentist down there that looks like me.   They're running for free Vicada. They they they said I'm not peeing any. So unless you, you know, do something just horrible. I mean, and you know, you have you have to get your it licensed in your way. But I w I wanna tell you about you know, there's just so many other things that you can focus on besides labor, like increasing their productivity. ⁓ I know dental offices. you can get a full if you pay a dentist in the Philippines five dollars an hour.   You get the best dentists in the Philippines. And I and there's dental offices that with Zoom and things like that are doing all their insurance and their claims and all that stuff. I mean, ⁓ so the with with with ⁓ with the internet, I mean you can literally have someone ⁓ be at the front desk ⁓ on a on a kiosk that's actually a dentist from the Philippines from five dollars an hour who when he's not busy can be calling your insurance companies all that. I I want to ask you another thing that's really hot on Dentaltown.   today. Everybody keeps talking about these dental insurance EFTs versus virtual credit cards. but basically everybody's reporting that major dental companies like even Delta are gonna stop sending paper checks and you gotta do it all electronic. And I guess that that electronic could be free, but it could be you know it could be another three and a half or three percent credit card fee on all your claims. Or what or what are your thoughts on all that? I'm hard on that   I have and I'm a hard no on the credit cards. Like, why? Why are you doing that? EFTs are so fast. Like there's absolutely no reason to be paying this. Explain to my home. A lot of them don't even know what a EFT. Mo I I bet 80% of the the dentists listen don't even know what we're talking about. Will you explain it? Will you explain it like I just graduated from dental school eight minutes ago? Of course. Well, I think that this is also where going back a little bit where you said, like, do dentists need to know the business? To me.   You don't even have to know that much, but I want to just challenge you that if you're getting a three, three and a half percent cut on your payments for quote unquote ease, that's a real big hit. And I would just challenge you to think about like for what and why. And so coming in, there's different ways the insurances are going to pay you. So they're gonna pay you via paper check, they're gonna pay you via EFT, which is a electronic fund transfer, or they've got this new thing where they're gonna pay you via credit card. And like honestly, to me, the credit card is so scammy.   And I've talked to so many people and like educate me, like, why would anybody do this? Like, I cannot comprehend. Like, I'm already taking a cut on insurance as is. Like, thank you for my marketing fee to be an insurance. Like, that's how I view that that write-off. Like, I know you hate it, but you're also gonna, you're either gonna have to do that, or you're gonna have to pay for marketing to bring in fee for service patients. So, like, again, let's just think about that. But I'm like, so I've already got a cut there, but I'm then gonna take another hit in addition to that for a credit card ease.   So as we're talking about that electronic fund transfers, they deposit straight into your bank account. The reason that some offices don't care for electronic fund transfers is because like trying to match it up is a like it kind of dumps and chunks into your bank account. So all you need to do is help your team members. Like there's ways that you can have it where it automatically emails your team when that comes through. So then they can go online and they can find out what the EFT was, so then they can balance and like enter it in.   I do think dentistry software is so dated because what happens is when we get paid from the insurance company, we get either like it's called an EOB, it's an explanation of benefits, and it's like batch checks. So when they dump this money to you, Delta's gonna give me like 20 grand. But like, who do I allocate that 20 grand to of all these patients? So that's I think where some people have like, well, electronic funds are so annoying and this and that. But I'm like, they're very quick, they're very fast, they're a lot safer than paper checks. Paper checks people do get embezzled on.   That I literally see no reason. Like, I don't care if you get it like one day sooner with a credit card, you are paying a huge hefty fee on that unnecessarily when electronic fund transfers are pretty much just as fast. Like maybe a like smidgey of a delay. But to me, that's a that's a very worthwhile smidgey of a delay. Because you're getting your payments so much faster. And as long as you're staying on top of it, you should still be able to maintain a 98% collections rate, even if you do checks or if you do electronic fund transfers. It just is so.   So dumb. I've yet to see a reason. But to me, I'm like insurances are so smart because it's just another way for them to take a chip out of what they're paying you and to have it come back to them. So again, think of the motive as to why they're offering. These people are not dumb. Those insurance companies, if you've ever gone to a business who's the biggest building in the entire city, it's your insurance companies. They're not dumb businesses. And I think we need to be smarter business owners that out think that. They always but Delta always says, we're   Yeah, so is Rolex Watch. Rolex Watch is a non profit. And and some of the CEOs of some of the anyway, we won't go there. But ⁓ yeah, ⁓ so what other ⁓ besides you know, when when someone tells me about their overhead, I tell them, look, I can't call the government and have my tax rate lowered. I can't call the nuclear power plant SRP or APS and tell them to lower my electric bill. I mean, something I i if the hygienists can   Wants a dollar an hour and if I say no, I'll give you 75 cents and she can go get a dollar across the street. I mean the market sets many, many prices. So the only way to fight that back is to ⁓ increase your productivity. You know, I mean if if if you have a dollar in labor and they do a dollar in dentistry, your overhead is a hundred percent. But if your dollar in overhead can do two dollars in dentistry, now it's down to fifty percent. So how so ⁓ are there other   ⁓ hidden gaps that are quietly draining profitability, or has it just come down to production? Or is it both I like I'm so glad you brought this up because I think like it's so easy to sit here and say, like, dentistry's not profitable. But I'm like, go find me another business that has a one percent fell rate that usually can run twenty to thirty percent profit margins if you run a business right. And this is not just Kiera sitting here fluff. This is like I got real clients running at these margins consistently. They've got large practices, small practices.   And so when I look at this and I'm like, okay, how do we make this more efficient? A lot of people want to go to the first thing of like, let's cut insurances. And I'm like, yay, pop the confetti, but be real smart. Because again, you're gonna then increase marketing fees, you're gonna lose a lot of your patient base. Like, let's just think through the ramifications. And so there's lots of different ways that we can increase productivity and not have to go for the cut. So I look at three levers that I found that can increase a practice. So one is we can increase our production. We're talking net production, not gross, like please feed your family, not your ego. So that's number one.   Number two is what's your collection percentage? Cause half the time doctors feel like they're broke and they don't have money, but your money's sitting in AR, which is your aging reports or your accounts receivable. We're not collecting the money and we don't have a good billing process. We got to get our collections up to 98%. And then the third thing is like we cut costs. And so looking at that, a lot of people want to go to just cut costs. I'm like, but in dentistry, let's break it down. If I want to add 10 grand more to my practice.   I love to help teams. Most offices are working four days a week. So if we're wanting to add 10 grand to a practice, working four days a week, let's do 10,000 and we're working 16 days a month. That's an extra six twenty-five a day. Well, how can we make six twenty-five in a dental practice? Let's think about our fluoride applications. Let's think about FMXs. Like I'm just talking, this is your lowest hanging fruit for you. Let's talk about could we add one or two fillings? Could we add like same-day dentistry, which is going to make more raving fans for our patients? There is so much ease in there.   Now, to increase our production, we can also look at our case acceptance. Doctors have so much case acceptance. And also, what are we diagnosing? I'm like, doctors, if you want to be producing 100 grand a month, the statistics are you need to be diagnosing three times that amount. And then we need to make sure our treatment coordinators are really good at diagnosing explaining treatment to them. They're not diagnosing, but they're explaining the treatment. They're presenting it in a way. We're not using insurance as our main driver. We're using it as like a coupon. And then we're really good at our follow through and our follow up.   Gotta have a right person, right seat in your treatment coordinator seat that's obsessive with hitting the right goals. And so there's like so many little ways. Like you can in I have added block scheduling, which I know is like a consultant's number one favorite thing to talk about, but like make it really make sense and easy for your team. I've added a million to a practice with no extra days, no extra work. We literally are just being more strategic with how we schedule. And so there's just so many little ways that I want dentists to realize like,   To me, I get really excited. This is where I geek out as a consultant. I geek out and I love to help that is because I'm like, how can I like squeeze more juice from the lemon you're already in? Like, let's just make more lemonade. Let's figure out ways to do it. And then let's make sure our costs are effective. So we teach your teams how to look at the business as a business. We teach each team member about their one KPI that's really going to drive it forward. We help them track. I just did this with an office manager this week and she's so lit up to look at her numbers, to look at her metrics, to see how she can do it.   And when they start to see how they can click it through, it's not you trying to push and drive more money. Like doctors, I tell everybody, every team member, you want your doctor to be so freaking profitable. Because if they're profitable and they're like they're secure, your life is so much better. So like I'm like dentists, we got to get you profitable, we to get the cash flow, we got to get you less stressed because you're gonna be a better dentist and a better business owner. But how are there's so many little easy ways where it's just low-hanging   Typically I'm able to add 10 to 30% of production in usually 90 days to an office, like very consistently with just small little reps, no real extra work. How are we doing our exams? Are we being directive in our treatment planning? Are we using like, okay, next visit I want to see you for this? And when do I want to see you back? And how much time is this going to take? Like, let's break down the barriers of treatment planning. There's so many little simple things that if you just implement, you can be very profitable very easily.   And then look at your P L. If you're not looking at your P and L every single week or month, like just being aware, getting into the language of business, that's also gonna help you too. So yes, cut. ⁓ but I found that it's always a lot easier to make sure our collections match, our production matches, and we use those little low hanging fruits. ⁓ and it's there. Like dentistry is such a magical, like, like it's a great lemon tree. You can make a lot of lemonade out of a dental practice. I want you to tell me if I'm right or wrong or or   I think I think there's two threes to double your price. Number one, if three people call your front desk, one is going to come in because they're smart and they need to they know they need to get their teeth clean. One isn't gonna come in for anything and you can hear them vaping and smoking and drinking beer and eating Cheetos on the call. But one out of three needs a little extra push. And if you train the person answering the phone, they can close that one out of three. And if they do, they doubled your practice. Then when they get in, you still got the now you got three people in chair.   One's gonna do what you say because you're a doctor and they've done their their author search and and you say they got a cavity, they're not gonna argue with you. One's not gonna do anything. In fact, in fact in fact I was like I had about a dozen patients that in the middle of my treatment plan, they asked me if they could just take a cigarette break ⁓ from my presentation and they went outside, had a cigarette, came back. They're gonna do it. But the other one in three needs some some closing skills. And so if you if you can close on the phone   You doubled your practice. You you got two butts in instead of instead of one. And if you fix your treatment plan presentation, you're gonna do two cases at one. And I think it's so funny now because the dentists have never let their hygienist or assistant, let alone receptionist, do any diagnosing treatment plan. But now AI, Pearl, and Overjet diagnosing all the cavities. So you wouldn't let your hygienist while she's in there for an hour.   Diagnose and treatment plan and sell the dentistry, the assistant while they're taking FMX, they they can't point out, yeah, see, that's a cavity, you don't need a filling and a root now. yeah, they couldn't do it because they were humans. But now Pearl and Overjeck can do it all day long and you're good with that. I mean, so so what how do you how do you double the close rate from one out of three to two out of three on the phone? How do you double the treatment plan acceptance rate from one to two out of three? Yeah. Do you do you agree those are possible goals?   Absolutely, Howard. I think again, this is the low hanging fruit that people are like, but that feels so hard. And I'm like, choose your hard. Like, is it harder to spend a little time with a front office and train them how to do this? Is it a little like, or is it harder to be cash flow negative? Like you choose what's your hard to me? Absolutely. Let's go after that. And I agree with you. Like teaching a team to preheat an oven, I call it what would doctor do. And so like, let's train our hygienist.   Like I tell all hygienists, doctor should be the second opinion, not the first opinion. And you got Pearl and you got Overjet. And so just spending a little bit of time with your team. So what we typically do for case acceptance, like let's go hit that one quick and then we'll talk about scheduling. Is I'm really big on let's get the whole team where we're talking the same language. So we recommend, like, what would doctor do? I recommend you run this over the course of six weeks, is typically how long it takes, anywhere from six weeks to maybe three months.   but we're gonna sit there and we're literally going to go through. We're gonna pull up an FMX. We're gonna do it one day over lunch. Hygienists, doctors, and if you want front office and dental assistance, rock on. But really, I want my like people that are seeing the bulk of my patients with doctor and hygiene. We're gonna look there and I want all of our hygienists to start like if we have an FMX up there and the interaurals, what is doctor going to recommend and how is doctor gonna talk about it? We're not just gonna sit here and have a nice little chit-chat. We're each gonna write it down because I wanna make sure every hygienist starts to get very, very comfortable. And the goal that I tell all hygienists is   Your goal should be at the end of this, what would doctor do training over six weeks? And if doctors are really consistent with it, I'm like six weeks of training to be able to double your practice and increase your case acceptance to me is a very good use of my time. So if I can do that, doctors and hygienists, you should be able to have 95% accuracy with your doctors at the end of this. And they do it. So hygienists get really lit up and they get very excited about it because now they're able to preheat the oven. They're able to talk to patients about it, use Pearl, use Overjet.   And then doctors, when they tee it up to you, and I say like hygienist, you've got to be the ones who first like introduce it, talk about it with the doctor as soon as they come in, but be real quick. So we introduce the patient, we compliment the patient on something, we recap the treatment that's discussed and we say something personal. Hygienist, you do that, your doctor exams will be much shorter for you and doctors will love it because it's very quick. If we can get that dialed in, and then doctors, you have a very like confirm the treatment.   then recommend exactly what needs to happen. And then we take that same baton up to the front office and front office, we schedule first. We then present the treatment. We use insurance secondary. I'm never leading with insurance. You do these little items which seem like, ⁓ no, that's like very quick, easy things. You're going to rapidly be able to help those ones. And then I do a two two two follow-up. So if they did not close for me and I'm going to go through it and I'm going to work through and I'm going to track all the people that didn't say yes to me and all the people that did say yes to me.   I'm gonna look for patterns. What are people saying yes? Like those are easy ones. Those are the gimme's. Those are the easy patients that Howard said. I'm looking for the people that say no and what's my pattern in there? And how do I change my verbiage? Because treatment planning is 80% psychology, 20% skill. So like what are you thinking? How are we presenting it? What are the words we're saying? One or two little changes usually will close that. What are the patterns and how can I get that number up higher? And I follow up with them in two days, two weeks, two months to make sure that they don't follow off.   People are like, Kiera, you really make your treatment coordinator do that? And like, yeah, I was your treatment coordinator that closed $50,000 same day. And this is exactly what I did. This is how I've trained co offices across the nation to do it. You just have these simple little things that help them out. And then you flip over to our scheduling. Like, I think scheduling's easy, Howard. I genuinely do. I'm like, half of it is just be nice. Like you got the COVID crank, and so many people are so grumpy and so like.   Annoyed when they pick up the phone, then I'm like, you can already leap your ahead by just being nice and being excited to welcome a patient. Then take like charge of that conversation. So let's take the ownership of that conversation. If someone's Do you take my insurance? I'm going to quickly redirect and say, my gosh, how did you hear about us? I'm going to answer that, but I want to find out how did they hear about us? If it's our Google reviews, if it's a referral, if it's somewhere else, I want to like say, my gosh, you're so lucky to be here.   We love our patients. We love our reviews. I can't wait for you to be a great raving fan too. let's talk about this. I can everything can be overcome. Please do not let being out of network stop people. It's a thousand dollar coupon and we're turning people away over that. No, no, no. We are better than that. And if we are the best dentist, they need to be coming to us. We need to win these patients over, make them feel so loved. Let's get them scheduled. Let's make this a great experience for them. Let's make them feel so excited. I did it with PT called like six offices.   And the office I chose, like so many people were annoyed I was calling. Can I put you on hold? Can I do this? And I was like, no one really wants my business. If you're just nice and you take control of that conversation, you can easily turn and transform your practice. So hopefully that was like not too much. I like I love these things. I love training treatment planning. I love training how to like take control of a phone call. I love helping teams overcome those little simple objections because it's very, very simple things.   that make massive leaps and bounds of change. And it's a great way to double your practice very easily, like you said.   The Dental A Team (36:13) All right, Dental A Team listeners, that was the guest interview that I absolutely loved. And I hope that if there was one idea that stood out to you, don't just agree with it, but actually go implement it this week. And if you need help setting this up in your practice or you need help just navigating or need a friend, head on over to TheDentalATeam.com and I'll be able to help you guys out. Click on the book of call or any way that we can support and serve you. That's what we're here for. That's what we're obsessed with. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

Time for our favorite hump day game "Rats Off A Ship: Tobin and Leroy mock Trae Young's bold prediction that the Washington Wizards will be a top seed next season. They share their distaste for new M&M flavors and discuss a bizarre Canadian recipe for banana bread. Finally, they react to rumors of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce renting out Madison Square Garden for a massive wedding ceremony. 01:00 - Trae Young's Wizards Prediction 03:26 - Candy And Banana Bread Debate 08:27 - Taylor Swift Wedding Rumors

Continuing education on your mind? What about areas in your practice you want to grow, or strengths and skillsets you want your team to have? Tiff and Kristy discuss the power of continuing education, including why it changes lives (and offices), where to fit it in your schedule, how to add makeup days of production, and a ton more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Tiff (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to have you here today. I know there's an intro you guys listen to that says we're excited for you, and what you're listening to today is the consultants, and we're taking over. ⁓ and and we really are excited to be here today. I have the one and only Kristy Treasure with me this morning. And ⁓ Kristy, I had a client this morning.   that they have a client that is a client of yours. And they were like, Who is it? It was, it's, it's treasure, right? Is that her last name? And I was like, that's truly her last name. She truly is a treasure. And they were looking at it. ⁓ your client had recommended you to them. ⁓ and they they were like, is Treasure really her last name? So I felt like I needed to say it tonight. How are you? I know it was it was cute. Yeah. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (00:37) No.   ⁓ that's so cool. Good. Yeah.   Tiff (00:48) It's the middle of the week for us. This is a wild podcasting day for us. but here we are. Kristy, thank you for being here. And you've got a full week of calls this week too. It's first week of the month for us recording this and how's ⁓ how's everything going over there? How are you how are you doing? How are your clients looking? What have you what trends are you seeing on your end?   The Dental A Team (01:09) Yeah.   It's crazy because I'm seeing a lot of clients have things fall out of their schedule in May, yet we had great numbers. I'm like, is May gonna be the new September or like what's happening here? But I I don't know if it's weather related, graduations. I don't know. It's it's weird.   Tiff (01:24) Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah.   I totally agree with you though. ⁓ here like rounding out end of May, like looking at Maine numbers. I've seen the same thing. I've seen a lot of practices that had some stellar production and some stellar collections. And I even have a few practices yesterday that were shocked when they looked at their numbers because they felt like they were so much worse because the schedule kept falling apart. ⁓ yeah, and I said the same thing. I know my o my Ohio office, I said it's cause it's finally not like   The Dental A Team (01:51) Yeah.   Tiff (01:57) like fifty degrees and ninety mile an hour winds, people are trying to get outside. So we're definitely hitting that season. And I think people are maybe prioritizing their personal lives a little bit more than maybe we're used to ⁓ in dentistry and we might be seeing that. I don't know. But I agree. I'm seeing that for sure.   The Dental A Team (02:17) Yeah, and it seems like it's coast to coast. So and the weird thing is is I d even if I say graduations and stuff, that's not new for May, but we'll see. We'll see. Yeah.   Tiff (02:26) I know, I know.   Yeah, yeah, I do agree. I do agree. Well, I'm excited for the summer. I know here in Arizona it's getting warmer, but we've had a pretty tame summer so far and the rest of the country's catching up to us. So I thought today would be a good day to get us some podcasts under our belt and we chatted before this and decided we're gonna chat about CE, you guys, ⁓ continue continuing education and   Honestly, Kristy, continuing education is something I think you really, really love personally, professionally, and for your practices. It's something I see you prioritize a ton. And so actually, this is a perfect podcast subject for us. And I thought let's chat through some of the CE opportunities, but also, Kristy, I know you and I both work with a lot of practices and a lot of dentists who do a ton of CE.   And making sure we add that into their budget is something I think both of us prioritize. So I thought we could chat about that some as well. So first and foremost, Kristy, personally for you, I would love to hear like what does your CE and your life look like and how how have you successfully prioritized it? Cause I think others can see that in themselves as well. And you truly do. I watch you. You're you're constantly learning, you're constantly absorbing something. ⁓ and how do you how do you fit that into your life?   The Dental A Team (03:52) Yeah. Well, I I am much like you in that we like to prioritize things and be efficient at it. And having gone through James Clear book for atomic habits, I think it's actually up there on my shelf, but we talk about this all the time and I like to combine, hey, every morning I have to get ready and so why not listen to a podcast or an audio book ⁓ while I'm getting ready? And so   Tiff (04:00) No.   The Dental A Team (04:20) A lot of times I will do that for sure. But then also, you know, you, me, all of the coaches, we look at lag measures within a practice and lead measures. And in the next few months, I we're talking about summer, but September is going to be here around the corner too. And we start looking forward to the new year. And as part of our process for looking into the new year, part of that planning can be planning for continuing to education.   Tiff (04:38) It is.   Okay.   The Dental A Team (04:50) What are areas within our practice that we want to grow or grow for ourselves and or for practice needs and literally starting to map that out and what it looks like for next year.   Tiff (05:05) Yeah, I completely agree. I completely agree. And I do think this is the time of the year to think about that because also if we haven't budgeted for it yet for this year, now we need to start looking at what would that budget look like for next year. And I know, Kristy, to your point, there are so many doctors that I've worked with that get to June and they're like, Tiff, there's this thing I want to do in October, but it's full, so I'm on a wait list. And I'm like, Well, when did the list start? Can we do that in twenty twenty seven or whatever the next year is?   Can we do it in that year to also budget for that and be like top of top priority on that list instead of on that wait list? So I totally agree. This is the time of year to start that. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (05:44) For sure. I was gonna say too   Tiff with CE, listening to you talk. I think about it almost like we break marketing into internal and external. I think with CE, we can almost break it that way too. There can be some very low cost, no cost, just like the podcast or webinars, or take time out of the practice, even to work on some of your internal systems. And that is continuing education for your team too.   Tiff (05:55) Yeah.   For sure.   The Dental A Team (06:14) So you could break it into two different buckets. And I know today we were talking about budgeting for the external CE, if you will, but I think teams need to think about that too. And there are the priority of mandatory CE, your HIPAA, your OSHA, making sure we're planning those and blocking them in our schedule too.   Tiff (06:31) Mm-hmm.   Yeah, that's a really good point. And to your point, the like webinars and the ⁓ team and staff trainings and all of those like OSHA HIPAA ⁓ team training just in handoffs in general, what you guys do with Dental A Team when we come into your office, all of those pieces are continuing education. I totally agree. And sometimes you do have to shut down the office. I know Kiera and I talk about this a lot actually in our COVID shutdown is when Dental A Team like we we were we   busted at the seams. We had so much ⁓ work to do. It was wild, but it was because it was that forced shutdown. There wasn't an option, right? And so rather than having the force shutdown and the practices that we knew really not doing anything, they decided, hey, Kiera, Tiff, we need you to train our teams virtually while they're while they're sitting here so that we can continue paying them and they can continue to grow. So when we come back, our systems are solid. So we were building out operations manuals. We were doing   ⁓ we were doing CEs, we were doing how-to's, we were doing everything you can think of, training practices and ⁓ teams in that capacity to your point where it's like, yeah, we just shut down and we're just doing an overhaul of these pieces to get it to where we can run again as soon as we get back. And that is a a massive point because it is continuing education and the budgeting portion of that.   still is okay, great, we're gonna shut down for three days. What does that look like? How do we add that three days worth of production into the rest of the month to make up that shutdown?   The Dental A Team (08:09) Absolutely. And sometimes it may be cost effective or more cost effective to bring people into the practice versus going outward. But looking at what you have in budget and what it would cost to do it beforehand. Yeah. Huge.   Tiff (08:18) Absolutely.   Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I remember one of the first offices that I went in practice to a long time ago, right? We've been doing this for so long now. But one of the first practices I went to, they were like, Whoa, wait, you want me to shut down my afternoon? And I was like, Yes, I do. And they were like, We can't, we can't lose that production. I was I promise you, you're gonna make it up tenfold after the fact because you're all gonna be rowing in the same direction. So no matter what we do during this meeting,   It's gonna be incredible. Your your meeting's gonna be incredible. You're gonna learn great things. The consultants know some amazing things, but you're all rowing in the same direction. And so the production that's gonna come after the meeting in the months, weeks, all of that time frame is tenfold gonna be more than what you might lose, quote unquote, in those couple of hours that you shut down for that training in the afternoon. So I think that's a great that's a great point, Kristy, is bringing people in and you don't have the hotel, you don't have the flights, you don't have all those costs as well.   The Dental A Team (09:19) Yeah. The other thing to that too, Tiff, is if you're going externally, make sure you come up with a plan. How are we gonna come back and implement this? So many times we invest in that CE and we go and then we come back. Maybe we learned about sleep or we learned about, you know, a new service, but then we come back and we never really launch it because we didn't develop a plan for how we were gonna come back and integrate it. We just jumped back into the same old routine.   Tiff (09:28) Yeah.   Yes, which is easy. They talk about like your teeth have that muscle memory. So if you don't wear your retainers, your teeth are gonna go right back to where they're suppos where they're supposed to be, right? Where they grew to. And so your brain is the same. Your brain has that muscle memory and honestly your capacity is the same. So you do you or even having having us in or having another trainer in office, you're like, Yeah, let's do it, let's do it. But to your point, if there's not an actionable, okay, do this, which we leave with, right? We say, Okay, you're gonna do these things, you're gonna do it.   this many times or to this percentage and by this state and so there's an action plan left but if you don't leave with that come back with it or that trainer leaves and you have that your muscle memory and your capacity is gonna flip back to what's easiest and what's easiest is to do what you were doing even if it was hard and not getting the result you wanted it's what you know. So even though it's hard having teeth that are misaligned, your teeth know that space they're gonna go back to it. So you're gonna do the same thing and so will your team.   The Dental A Team (10:45) Yeah. You know, something else that was coming to my mind is so many doctors hear these new things and they it's like we talk about the shiny object, right? Have you ever with some of your doctors or teams, like before they jump in and invest in that, actually pull your patients and see is this a service that they're looking for or would be interested in?   Tiff (10:55) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (11:08) 'Cause sometimes they invest a lot, right? And then they come back and they're really disappointed because it was like, Man, I didn't have the market for that or how do I have to market it to really make it work, you know?   Tiff (11:11) Yeah.   Mm.   Yes, that's huge. And I think that is something originally this topic was given to us as trends in dentistry. And it's like, gosh, trends in dentistry could be so vast, right? And it's like, to your point, it ch it truly just depends on the doctor and the patient base, the demographic that you're in. I've worked with plenty of practices that are in a demographic that doesn't support sleep, but they want to do sleep, right? But they're in ⁓ like a a Medicaid.   you know, area. They they take Medicaid and they do the and yes, I want to offer that service, but to your point, is that something that your patient base is looking for in that area? Yes, I want to give it to them, but the cost might not be worth the value back, the ROI that you're gonna get in return for the CE that you just took.   The Dental A Team (12:10) Yeah, one hundred percent. Or you're gonna have to spend a ton more in marketing to draw from a greater area, right? And so now your investment just got even greater.   Tiff (12:14) Yeah.   Yeah.   Yeah. Yeah. And that's the difference I think, Kristy too. I I have a dentist, he loves CE, like loves. I have a bucket, he pours into his CE bucket every single month because he spends a n ton of money on CE every year. And I'm we're like, cool, fine with it. We budgeted for it. But to that point, there's CE that he does that he does because he's interested in it and wants the knowledge. He just likes to learn.   And there's CE that he does that he knows he's gonna actually implement and get a great ROI on in the office. And so he knows those two like demographics, right? He knows those two differences in the CE and he plays to whichever side or team, however you wanna say it, he's playing to to get that to get that done.   The Dental A Team (13:07) Yeah. Going into it eyes wide open, right? That's that's the best. So then the expectation meets your outcome. But yeah.   Tiff (13:10) Yeah.   Yes. Yes.   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause there's so many things. There's a million things I want to learn that I'm interested in. But it's like, okay, well, the ROI has to be there for the time, for the finances, for the input, the output, all of those pieces have to make sense. So yeah, I love that. I do have practices too when we're talking, you know, quote unquote trends that do have like I I talked to a practice yesterday that has a a trainer that comes in for Sarah.   The Dental A Team (13:30) Yeah.   Tiff (13:43) crowns, right? So we know all of those. We've got the Sarat Crowns, we've got a bunch of trainers that do come in. We've got practices that come, we come in two practices, but then practices that come to us two times a year. So there's those as well. And there's all the sleep apnea, the implants supported. And I'm a huge advocate before I'll go on this tangent before we move forward. I'm a huge advocate for like going back and learning something you've already learned.   So a lot of doctors that I work with are like, yeah, I took that, I took that implant pathways course, you know, 10 years ago. I'm like, awesome. Do you think anything's changed in the last 10 years that maybe hasn't popped up on a forum for you? Right. Like there's so many things that I think if you if you're not going back and getting that exposure again and retaking classes or getting recertified or what have you, I think there's a lot to be lost in there with how quickly dentistry moves and progresses, especially with technology.   I think it's really easy to fall behind in those spaces.   The Dental A Team (14:45) I agree with you a hundred percent, Tiff. Yeah.   Tiff (14:48) Yeah. Yeah. So budgeting for it is easy, right? Well, from our perspective at least. Like from my perspective, it's easy. ⁓ when I think when you're in it, I do this personally. I think when I'm in it, I'm like, yeah, I want all of those things. And then I'm just gonna figure out how to afford them. But what we do is we take a step back and say, Okay, cool. What do you want to do? And and like you said, do the research on what is your patient base, what are they using? And I like to look at what are you referring out the most that you want to keep in house that you would   that you would want to do. If you don't love root canals, don't do root canals. Refer those out. But if you're like I could place implants and I could enjoy that, great. Then maybe we look at an implant course depending on how many you're sending out. So do that due diligence and then start vetting courses. Like what courses have the best reviews? Where how far are they? I make my doctors look at the course cost, which is always easy. We think of that. But then on top of that, what is your travel?   The Dental A Team (15:21) Right.   Tiff (15:48) Right. And I think maybe Kristy that comes from us traveling. It's very easy for us to think that far ahead to be like, okay, well, what about a rental car, a flight, and a flight home and a hotel and food? Like we're doing this every other week. So I think it's easy. But I have them like lump all of that together and then literally build a budget so that they're saving a certain amount of that goes into their not their   Bam per se, right? Because that's how do we keep the practice open. But it's their BAM of well, if we want to make this happen, that's the in access bam that we're saving.   The Dental A Team (16:22) Yeah, I agree with you. And then that way too, we chunk it down, right? If the course is next September, we have this many months to add that to our bucket, so to speak, to pay for it, right? And same thing if they're looking to take team with them, it makes it a a lot more affordable than fo forking it all out at once. And then we also know what we have to hit every month, like you said, to the BAM. We make it a goal with the team and we achieve it together.   Tiff (16:26) Yeah.   Yep.   Yes.   Yeah. Yeah.   Yes, and we move the money. Don't leave it in the account that can be spent. We move the money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have an office that I had a ⁓ an office manager call me just frantic. And she's like, my gosh, there's this thing coming up. It's this massive thing that doctor decided she wants to send everybody to. And it's in three months. And she's like, I don't know how we're gonna afford it. That's not like great question. So we had to work backwards, you know, and it   The Dental A Team (16:58) Absolutely agree with you a hundred percent.   Tiff (17:23) It was a stretch and it was hard, but I was like, cool, now we know this is something that you guys are interested in and it's gonna happen again next year. So if we're gonna go again next year, now we know the costs and we can pay for this this year, figure out how to pay off that credit card, and then start saving for the next one. And we worked it for the office manager. It was very easy because we had worked something similar for a bonus that they   we're working towards and so she could like relate it. She's like, this is exactly what we did for that the cruise we want to take or whatever it was, the Hawaiian vacation, whatever wherever they were sending them to, I can't remember, that she could relate it and say, ⁓ I can do that. And I'm like, gosh, we make it so difficult, right, to budget these things out. But we do it in our personal lives when we're like, I want to go to Europe. I want to go on a trip. I want to go to California, wherever. We're doing the same thing, but we forget to do that in business.   The Dental A Team (18:15) Yeah.   I love that you talked about the bonus because literally I was gonna say these CE things can be a very rewarding thing to take the team to and use it in that capacity. And to be honest with you, Tiff, I there's been so many times where I've seen doctors go, Well, I'll take my key players. And then they come back and they regret that they didn't bring the whole team because hearing having the whole team go to some of these things.   Tiff (18:33) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (18:41) ⁓ number one, the bonding experience for team can be huge. And number two, we all hear things differently. So we're gonna bring back a different piece of the pie and literally to hit the ground running and really implement some of these things coming back can be hugely beneficial to bring the whole team if you can budget and afford it, right? So with that being said, to add that to the budget and plan for it can be rewarding in more than one way.   Tiff (18:48) Yep.   Yeah.   Absolutely. And I think it shows the investment in the team, Kristy, because as you're talking, I'm thinking of all the excuses I'm gonna hear from doctors, right? Like, well, my team turnover. I don't know if that like what if they leave? And it's like, what if they do leave? But showing if you have the availability and if it's a desire of yours. I'm not saying change your perspective and change your thoughts and ideals. Like I it's neither here nor there to me, but my perspective can be on this.   If I show the investment to this team and I truly believe in them and I want them here, I'm investing in them and I'm having fun with them. I'm integrating them as my team and I'm not sitting here saying I'm the only one who can do this. So I'm gonna go and bring it all to you guys, but you guys can come with me. I think Kristy that helps that bond and it helps that tie to the doctor and the practice and increases the culture value. So you're actually potentially with the right people.   less likely to lose people than more likely to lose people if that makes sense.   The Dental A Team (20:09) Yeah,   one hundred percent. And and I've heard that in my a lifetime in dentistry too. But I will tell you that, you know, it it's CE has been one of the things that's really helped form me. And I'm very grateful for the people that invested in me. And you know, to that point too, Tiff, sometimes we have to look like I did come back and maybe they only stayed a year or two. However, they might have brought more to the bottom line too that wouldn't have been there.   Tiff (20:23) For sure.   The Dental A Team (20:38) So don't always see it as a loss either. And you never know what's going to come back around. You know, even if those people leave, they may be referring patients to you just because you have that knowledge and know the skill set.   Tiff (20:39) Yeah.   Yeah. And building, I think to your point, building ⁓ systems and protocols and settings things into stone thereafter the CE, right? Like there's so much groundwork that's being laid, whether they leave or not. They're doing so much for the future people who are coming in and potentially even referring other employees to your practice, not just patients as well.   The Dental A Team (21:01) Yeah.   Yeah. I'd say, you know, last year, at the end of last year, I had one of my clients that was looking to go to an Invisalign course and she literally was worried about bringing the whole team and stuff. But afterward, she was ready to book another one. And literally at that meeting, you know, we talked about it. Set your goals. And they literally ⁓ set their Invisalign goals and got to Pearl level like within less than a year.   Tiff (21:29) Yeah.   wow.   The Dental A Team (21:42) And so it really did number one, bomb them and the team got rallied and excited and it affected, you know, how they were treating patients and team. So they all benefited.   Tiff (21:54) Yeah. That's awesome.   That's amazing. I love that. I love that. So I think this one kind of I this was more of a conversation and I loved it. And I knew it would be because it was a it's a controversial subject and there's so many different angles to take on it. So thank you for having that with me. I would say C E is important. It's summertime, so it's time to   Make sure you've got your CE this year. If you need it for your license, by the way, start looking if you don't have that yet. And secondary to that, Kristy, I totally agree. It's time to start thinking about next year. So 2026 right now, so whatever year you're listening to this, it doesn't matter. ⁓ next year is still next year. So right now, start thinking about 2027 and budget it. I think Kristy, you're 100% right. Inventory your practice. What are what are things you're referring out that you could keep in that you would want to keep in? I talked to a dentist yesterday that does not want to do root canals.   Don't do them if you don't want to do them. Like you only do the things you want to. So then look for the courses, price it out, price out the whole thing. If you're leaving, price it out. If you're bringing someone in, price it out. Like whatever that is, what is the production you're gonna lose both ways? If you're leaving the office or if somebody's coming in, what's the production loss? ⁓ price it out and then prep for it. So start budgeting that every single month and moving that money. I have a lot of doctors who will prepay for CE at the end of the year.   to get rid of some of that cash so that they're not paying taxes on that chunk of cash. And that's a really easy way to do it. I know we do try to do end of year spending. What better time of year to start prepping for that than mid year? Yeah.   The Dental A Team (23:29) Absolutely.   Couldn't agree with you more, Tiff.   Tiff (23:32) Awesome. Okay, well guys, that's a wrap on our CE chat for today. I hope that you find something really, really fun. Leave us a review below. Let us know what you decided to do and if there are any courses that you guys suggest for other practices. We are all about sharing best practices and sharing just a wealth of knowledge from wherever we can gather it. So leave that in the comments as well or reach out to us. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com.   And we will be more than happy to take your suggestions and also help you budget if you need help budgeting. So that's a wrap. Kristy, thank you so much. I know this was a slam dunk of a scheduling opportunity here. So I appreciate you being here today with me, and I appreciate you always making podcasting so easy. Yeah, awesome guys. And I hope you go have a wonderful summer, and we'll catch you next time.   The Dental A Team (24:14) Thank you.  

Join Tricia and Jojo for a delightful Tea Time conversation with bestselling fantasy romance author Ben Alderson. Known for his magical fantasy worlds, epic adventures, and MM romances, Ben chats with us about his writing journey, world-building, inspiration, and life beyond the pages. Grab a cup of tea and join the conversation! Visit Viviana, Enchantress of Books: https://www.vivianaenchantressofbooks.com/2026/06/audiobook-lovin-2026-presents-s12-ep-7.html Support the podcast by becoming a patreon at www.patreon.com/AudiobookLovin or Buy Me A Coffee: www.buymeacoffee.com/enchantresspr We hope you have enjoyed this production of The Audiobook Lovin' Podcast. Guest: Author Ben Alderson Tea Time Hosts: Tricia & Jojo Host: Viviana Izzo Podcast Intro & Outro: Xavier Blade Editor: Viviana Izzo This has been an Audiobook Lovin' production part of the Audiobook Lovin Network. Copyright 2017 by Viviana Izzo, Enchantress of Books. Production Copyright 2017 by Audiobook Lovin'. Audiobook Lovin' Series, The Audiobook Lovin Podcast is a division of Viviana, Enchantress of Books. Please visit Viviana, Enchantress of Books to learn more about the Audiobook Lovin' Series. All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced, modified, copied, distributed, repackaged, shared, displayed, revealed, extracted, emailed, transmitted, sold or otherwise transferred, conveyed or used, in a manner inconsistent with the Agreement, or rights of the copyright owner. You shall not redistribute, repackage, transmit, assign, sell, broadcast, rent, share, lend, modify, extract, reveal, adapt, edit, sub-license or otherwise transfer the Content. You are not granted any synchronization, public performance, promotional use, commercial sale, resale, reproduction or distribution rights for the Content. For permission requests, please visit Viviana, Enchantress of Books for more information.

EWOT for Stroke Recovery: The Affordable Alternative to Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Brad Pitzele did not set out to become an oxygen therapy equipment maker. He set out to survive. After years of battling significant health challenges, conventional medicine had given him answers that kept failing him. He tried around 200 treatments. Some helped. Many did not. Then he found EWOT Exercise With Oxygen Therapy, and something finally shifted. Brad’s journey is not the same as a stroke. But what he discovered about oxygen, inflammation, and cellular energy maps directly onto one of the most stubborn obstacles stroke survivors face: the feeling that the brain has gone offline, that the body is running on empty, and that the path back is either impossibly expensive or simply does not exist. In Episode 407 of the Recovery After Stroke podcast, Brad shares what EWOT is, why it works, and why he now makes affordable EWOT systems through his company, One Thousand Roads, specifically so survivors do not have to remortgage their homes to access oxygen-driven recovery. What Is EWOT? EWOT stands for Exercise With Oxygen Therapy. The concept is straightforward: you breathe high-concentration oxygen through a mask while exercising even lightly, and that combination pushes oxygen into parts of the body that normal breathing cannot reliably reach. Most people assume oxygen therapy means a hyperbaric chamber: a pressurized tube, a clinic, a course of treatments costing tens of thousands of dollars. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) is effective. Brad describes it as “a heroic treatment.” But it is also inaccessible for most survivors, financially and logistically. EWOT operates on a related principle without the chamber. The key mechanism is not about oxygenating red blood cells; they are already carrying close to their maximum load under normal breathing. The target is the blood plasma. Plasma does not carry oxygen efficiently under resting conditions, but during exercise, even light exercise, blood pressure and circulation increase enough to force dissolved oxygen into the plasma. That plasma can then reach the micro-capillaries, the tiny vessels that feed tissues deep in the body, including areas of the brain that become inflamed and oxygen-starved after a stroke. The Post-Stroke Energy Problem One of the most commonly reported and least-explained symptoms after stroke is fatigue that does not go away, no matter how much a survivor rests. Most survivors are told that is just part of it. Brad’s framework centres on mitochondrial dysfunction. Mitochondria are the energy-producing structures inside cells. After stroke, the cells in and around the affected area are often not dead; they are in a kind of low-power state. Brad describes it as a “brownout”: the lights are on, but dimly. The mitochondria are not producing energy at full capacity, and one significant reason for that is insufficient oxygen supply to the tissue. “The cells that are offline after a stroke are not all dead. Some of them are just starving. Oxygen is part of what feeds them back.” — Brad Pitzele, Episode 407 When EWOT increases plasma oxygen during exercise, it can reach those inflamed, under-oxygenated micro-capillaries that larger vessels cannot access. The result, for some survivors, is a gradual improvement in energy, cognition, and physical capacity, not because the therapy is miraculous, but because it addresses a specific physiological deficit that conventional post-stroke care often does not target. EWOT vs. Hyperbaric: What’s the Real Difference? The honest answer is that EWOT and hyperbaric oxygen therapy are not equivalent. HBOT delivers oxygen under pressure, which drives it into tissue more forcefully. For certain conditions, particularly in acute or severe cases, hyperbaric oxygen has a stronger evidence base.  But for many stroke survivors in the subacute or chronic phase of recovery, access is the defining variable, not theoretical ceiling. A home-based hyperbaric unit costs $50,000 to $75,000. A clinical course can run to $60,000 or more. EWOT systems are available for under $2,000.  The question Brad puts to survivors is not “which is better in a lab?” It is: “Which one can you actually do, consistently, at home, over the months and years that brain recovery requires?” Consistency matters more than peak intensity in long-term neurological recovery.  Starting EWOT With Deficits EWOT does not require running on a treadmill. The exercise component can be a stationary bike, a recumbent bike, or simple seated leg movements with one limb strapped in. The goal is to raise circulation enough to push oxygen into the plasma, not to hit a cardiovascular fitness target. For survivors exploring this option, Brad’s team has built a specific resource at onethousandroads.com/stroke-recovery with a listener discount of $100 to $500, depending on the package. There is also a broader introduction to EWOT at onethousandroads.com/pages/exercise-with-oxygen-therapy. Recovery Is Possible — And It Does Not Have to Be Expensive If this episode resonated with you or if you want to explore more conversations about recovery options that do not require a second mortgage, Bill’s book, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened, is available at recoveryafterstroke.com/book. And if the Recovery After Stroke podcast has been useful to you, you can support it financially at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Every contribution helps keep the show going and these conversations accessible to survivors around the world. This blog is for informational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult your doctor before making any changes to your health or recovery plan. EWOT for Stroke Recovery: The Affordable Alternative to Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy Why pay $60,000 for hyperbaric oxygen? EWOT brings oxygen therapy into your living room — and could help the brain cells that are only offline. One Thousands Roads Exercise With Oxygen Therapy (EWOT) YouTube Channel Highlights: 00:00 Introduction and Background 05:37 Challenges in Stroke Recovery and Treatment Options 13:45 Understanding Oxygen Therapy and Its Mechanism 15:51 Oxygen Toxicity Explained 19:24 The Importance of Oxygenating Blood Plasma 24:53 Oxygen and Mitochondrial Function 31:16 Adapting Exercise for Stroke Survivors 38:27 Cost and Accessibility of Oxygen Therapy Devices Transcript: Introduction – EWOT for Stroke Recovery Brad Pitzele (00:00) like many of your listeners, when you have a medical issue that isn’t treated by traditional medicine and you’re desperate to get your life back, you’ll try just about anything. You, the lens it goes through is like, Well, how bad can this hurt me? BIll Gasiamis (00:15) Welcome back to Recovery After Stroke. I’m your host, Bill Gassiamas. Today’s guest is Brad Pitzele, founder of 1000 Roads, who overcame significant health challenges of his own and along the way discovered the science behind exercise with oxygen therapy. In this conversation, we get into how increasing oxygen saturation in the blood, specifically in the blood plasma, can help reach the inflamed microcapillaries. That are blocking oxygen delivery to cells in the recovering brain. We talk about mitochondrial dysfunction, post-stroke fatigue, and why Ewatt is worth understanding as an accessible alternative to hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Before we get into it, if you’ve found value in this podcast and want to support it financially, you can do that at patreon.com/slash recovery after stroke. And if you haven’t yet read my book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, it is available at recovery after stroke dot com slash book. Here’s my conversation with Brad. BIll Gasiamis (01:19) Brad Pitsley, welcome to the podcast. Brad Pitzele (01:22) Thank you so much. BIll Gasiamis (01:24) Thanks for reaching out and ⁓ connecting with me to educate me on another thing that I can bring to stroke survivors that could potentially help them in the rehabilitation side of their brain. The the thumbnail that people found on YouTube is probably gonna have E W O T on it somewhere. E what. And it sounds something like something out of that ⁓ space war out of out of what is it? Brad Pitzele (01:53) Star Wars. Star Wars. BIll Gasiamis (01:54) Star Wars. Like the Ewok, right? And it doesn’t really mean anything to me. But before we descri tell people what Ewok is, ⁓ tell me a little bit about your background, the work that you do and how it is you came to be on the podcast today is for s for for the specific discussion that we’re gonna have. Brad Pitzele (01:58) Yep. Sure. ⁓ yeah, so I ⁓ I I’m an e recovering engineer. I like to joke. I spent my first decade of my life engineering. later on in life, I left engineering and went into different pursuits and I became chronically ill, had a variety of medical issues, ⁓ cancer, autoimmunity, and eventually Lyme disease. And I was in really bad shape. And a doctor recommended I look into either hyperbaric oxygen or this exercise with oxygen therapy, EWAT, that almost no one had heard of, and I’d never heard of it. ⁓ I I I had tried like everything to get better at this point. I was many years in special diets, ⁓ all sorts of supplements and ⁓ all sorts of modalities and things. And nothing really worked. There was nothing in a matter of fact, some of the medications I took actually gave me cancer. So it kind of forced me on this road to try something different. ⁓ and eventually I found my way back to health through exercise with oxygen when so many things weren’t working. ⁓ and actually later paired that with ⁓ red light therapy. ⁓ and along the way I started because I’m an engineer and I’m inquisitive, I like It was Lyme disease is kind of a do-it-yourself disease. ⁓ so I started digging in and pouring into research, not just on Lyme disease, but autoimmunity, ⁓ chronic illness, ⁓ trying to figure out what the heck was going on with me. And so ⁓ what I found about exercise oxygen therapy along the way was really fascinating to me. and about a year into using it, I went back to that same doctor and he was kind of shocked. At my turnaround, and he was like, What did you use? Did you do oxygen? And I said, I did. And he was like, Who’d you buy it from? I want to tell my patients about it. And I said, I didn’t buy it, Doc. I actually ended up making my own. And he was kind of surprised by that for obvious reasons. And then he said, Well, gosh, would you consider making it for my patient? And so, my patients, and so that’s how we got into this business back in two thousand eighteen. We launched one thousand roads to kinda make exercise with oxygen therapy accessible to people who are dealing with chronic health conditions. BIll Gasiamis (04:39) Okay. And it stems from science, right? There’s scientific data that backs up this exercise with oxygen therapy. Before you go into that a little bit, we don’t have to go deep into it, but we can just ⁓ chat about it. ⁓ when I talk to stroke survivors, they get stuck always with what should I do? What should I do? What should I do? They want the The blue pill, take that one, everything gets fixed. I mean, stroke is not like that, right? And it’s and it’s stroke is also a you’re on your own kind of thing. Because once you get out of the acute phase, once you get sent home, the ⁓ follow up and the medical fraternity doesn’t have a system to kind of say to you, we can’t help you. Speak to that guy. ⁓ that guy might not be able to help you, but but there’s a guy over there. Brad Pitzele (05:09) Yeah. Challenges in Stroke Recovery and Treatment Options BIll Gasiamis (05:33) Like there’s none of that. And stroke survivors need podcasts. They need ⁓ people selling all sorts of crazy stuff that they will almost try almost all the time. They’ll try everything. And then they’ll pick and finally stumble into one that helps and gets them a result. But before we talk about all of that, what I want to do is also go back to what you said about ⁓ a year later, you went to your doctor, he was stunned at the result. We can’t put that down just to eat what? We can’t put that down just to exercise with oxygen therapy. Give me the brief steps on the other things that you also attended to because people miss that. Brad Pitzele (06:15) Yes. Yeah. I well, here’s what I’ll tell you. I started I started to get arthritis in my hands in like 2010 or eleven. and then I started taking traditional drugs for it. And one of the side effects of the drugs is higher risk of cancer and specifically melanoma, which I developed in two thousand thirteen, I wanna say, maybe two thousand fourteen. And that kicked me off the traditional medical path. ⁓ to your point, you don’t you don’t in the stroke recovery, there’s not a traditional path. There it was a traditional path, but it was clear that it was a you know it was a choice between cancer and autoimmunity, and neither one seemed great to me. ⁓ from there I tried so many things, Bill. I did s I actually made a list recently and looked at it because I had it like just off the top of my head, I came up with 200 different things I did try. We’re talking special diets. Eating all sorts of weird, strange things, all sorts of supplements, antibiotics, because it’s Lyme disease, herbal protocols, ⁓ ozone treatments, sa various different types of saunas, ozone sauna, infrared sauna, ⁓ heat steam saunas, ⁓ colonics, coffee enemas, ⁓ weird stuff, you know, you’d never think you’d do. I mean BIll Gasiamis (07:39) You are committed Brad Pitzele (07:42) ‘Cause like many of your listeners, when you have a medical issue that isn’t treated by traditional medicine and you’re desperate to get your life back, you will you’ll try just about anything. You the the lens it goes through is like, Well, how bad can this hurt me? Like like ’cause I know where I’m going right now. For me at least it was a I was just like this gradual step down. It was like I knew like I I couldn’t do this. I had a young family. so, you know, that doctor, I remember him saying, like, look, Brad, we’re trying all these things, we’re gonna get you on thyroid medications and get that right, and we’re gonna do this. ⁓ there on that list of 200, there were about eight things that gave me any kind of benefit that I could identify. ⁓ But I remember he’s like, Brad, we’re gonna take out the big dog. We’re gonna do this ozone treatment. And it’s a special kind where we remove the blood from your body, we inject ozone, put it through UV light, and put it back into your blood. And this helps everyone. Like if nothing else works, this helps, but it’s really expensive. So we’re saving it, kind of. So he he did it. He’s like, do a course of three of them. And he’s like, You might feel bad after it the next day because it kills a bunch of stuff and might you might feel toxic. Or you might feel better. We’re not sure. And give it a few days. And like I did all three of them, I never noticed a difference. And it was ⁓ the most depressing, scary part was like going through that. So when he said go do oxygen, I was like, Okay, like I’ve done everything else. I’m just gonna check the box so the doctor knows that’s not gonna work, so we can go try to find something else. ⁓ And I didn’t believe it was gonna work. I I you know, I didn’t jump on the the bandwagon gung-ho. I was, you know, kind of kicking and screaming. And that was part of the reason I built my own, is because at the time they were so expensive and the they were five to twenty-five thousand dollars. And I was like, I just can’t spend, you know, ten thousand dollars on an experiment. I just can’t do that. ⁓ And he also suggested maybe hyperbaric and that was like fifty or seventy-five thousand dollars. And I was like, geez, if I knew this was the the blue pill, as you said it, if I knew this was the blue pill, I’d go mortgage the house and I’d go do it because like then I could work full and I could do all the things, I could be present for the family, but ⁓ I couldn’t. BIll Gasiamis (10:05) And and and you know what? And it’s not, and and the reason it’s not for a lot of people is because you need to have penumbras the brain from a stroke survivor perspective that are recoverable and that you can bring back to life that are offline, not dead by ⁓ cell death because of the stroke. And there’s no diagnostic process in the majority of the people I’ve spoken to, you can’t diagnose somebody and then work out whether they’re a candidate, and that really Brad Pitzele (10:20) Yeah. Right. BIll Gasiamis (10:33) Pisses me off to somebody gonna have to spend 50 grand to find out if they’re gonna get a result, right? The s the guys that who I’ve interviewed about hyperbaric oxygen therapy, ⁓ Viv clinics, ⁓ those guys will do a thorough diagnostic beforehand to determine whether somebody is a candidate. And whatever that costs, even if it’s five grand, I don’t know what it does cost, but even if it’s five grand, at least you can go, you’re not a candidate, don’t spend any more money. Brad Pitzele (10:38) Yeah. Right. higher yes, you have a higher level of certainty before you spend the money. BIll Gasiamis (11:04) Yeah. And if you do do it, you’re doing it for the other ⁓ non-brain related benefits that you’re gonna get from hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And that’s totally up to you. But it’s not the thing to supposedly fix the arm or the leg that doesn’t work, or to ⁓ repair the damaged cells in your brain. So that part really frustrates me. And if I’m gonna spend that much money, then there’s the opportunity cost as well. It’s like Brad Pitzele (11:33) Yes. BIll Gasiamis (11:34) Now I can’t spend that somewhere else. Brad Pitzele (11:36) Exactly. That was me too. It was like you you knew you had and I was like, man, if I spend this kind of money on it and it doesn’t work, like nothing’s worked for the last, I don’t know, almost ten years at this point. Like how many of these shots do I have in the cannon, right? Like you you know, now I’m I’m depleted and I’m still sick. And that’s even i and you know this, when you’ve got a chronic health condition, sometimes the psych psychology of it all is just as hard as the condition. And If you’re like, wow, now I don’t have money. I feel trapped. There’s nothing I can try. Then hope starts to dwindle. And I say like hope is is like the most potent weapon in recovering from a chronic health condition. It’s a double-edged sword because like you’re s afraid to get hope up because you’ve been let down. But it’s also the thing you need. You ha like when when you start losing hope, and I and I’ve been at that point, it just gets incredibly dark. ⁓ and incredibly scary. so I I think that was part of it. I just wouldn’t allow it. It was the financial part. I you’re right. You only have so many shots out of the bow. But it was also like if it doesn’t work and I am depleted financially you know, I don’t like that that brings me to a a level of hopelessness I I’m not sure I can confront. BIll Gasiamis (12:53) Yeah. And then in order to get back up, you’re getting back up, you’re financially depleted, you’re energetically depleted, your health is depleted. And it’s like, my God, that is a that is like the lowest place that you can find yourself and to get back up is a lot harder. And yet people have still done that, but I know the task is harder. I’ve been in a similar sort of situation. Brad Pitzele (13:12) Yeah. We all love we all love reading that inspirational story. No one wants to live it if they can avoid it, I’ll tell you. Understanding Oxygen Therapy and Its Mechanism BIll Gasiamis (13:23) Avoid it. Yeah, a hundred percent. ⁓ so so you’ve tried all this stuff, you’re unwell, and then somebody says to you, try oxygen. Now, what I imagine when I hear oxygen is get a can from the local gas supplier, ⁓ pop pot in a tube, put it on the back of your chair, wheelchair. You know, I’ve seen a lot of older guys who have got it, and then they’ve got oxygen attached to their face and they’re breathing in oxygen. What specifically did your doctor tell you to get and if you didn’t get what he suggested, like w what did it look like for you? Brad Pitzele (14:00) Yeah, so the challenge with bottled oxygen is number one, it’s almost impossible to get. number two is when you exercise, you can take in a massive amount of oxygen, and that’s part of what makes the the therapy really cool. So y you and I sitting here, maybe we’re taking in three liters of oxygen a minute, okay? ⁓ three liters of air a minute, maybe something like that. ⁓ When you’re exercising, you can easily take in 50 or 60 liters. So it’s a massive multiplier. So you need something that’s going to give you a large amount of oxygen. Now, there’s two ways you can get oxygen in your home. One is that bottle you mentioned, and then you’re always refilling it, and you can imagine lugging one of those things around. ⁓ the other way is there’s a device called an oxygen concentrator, and all you do is you plug it into the wall. And it turns the it purifies the oxygen in the room. So, you know, at sea level, the oxygen in the room has 21% oxygen and it can purify it to 93%. Now, the challenge with these devices is they put out either five or ten liters of oxygen in a minute. So not enough to exercise with. If you were to try to exercise with it, you would also be sucking in this air at 21% and diluting it. ⁓ and so what you do is you take this device and you fill a large reservoir, it’s about a thousand liters, ⁓ and you fill it up. using this device and then you hook up a hose with a mask on it and then you breathe through the mask while you do a fifteen minute exercise session. BIll Gasiamis (15:41) Okay. A reservoir, ⁓ water tank. Oxygen Toxicity Explained Brad Pitzele (15:45) It well it it’s like it looks like a big pillow. So it’s like six you know, two meters by two meters, sort of ⁓ big pillow, six feet by six feet for us still on Imperial. And you fill it up so a thousand liters and it’s you know it’s it’s thin film and so it’s not a a rigid body of something, and then yeah, it’s a bag. BIll Gasiamis (16:06) It’s a bag. Like a bagpipe, a massive bagpipe. Brad Pitzele (16:10) There you go. BIll Gasiamis (16:12) Okay. Okay. W I’m sure there’s an image of that, right? We’ll put it on the screen. People can see it while we’re talking about it, trying to work out what it is. Okay. So this thing is something that you accessed and you used specifically for yourself, how many years ago? Brad Pitzele (16:16) Yeah. Yeah. I’ve s I’ve been using it for a decade straight now. BIll Gasiamis (16:33) Okay. This stuff’s been around for about a decade. This Brad Pitzele (16:37) It’s well, the the research on it goes back to the nineteen sixties and seventies. This it’s really fascinating. actually some of the early research goes back to the turn of the ⁓ twentieth century, the nineteen hundreds. So in the early nineteen hundreds, a gentleman named Otto Warburg won a Nobel Prize for proving that he could turn any cancer or any regular cell into a cancerous cell by depriving it of oxygen. ⁓ and so there’s this really well-established linkage between oxygen and cancer. Even today, a ton of research on that. So in the 1960s and 70s, there was a a German physicist and prolific inventor named Manfred von Arden. Now, and he started to want to do research on Otto’s work, and he he actually started doing research on exercising with oxygen as an anti-cancer protocol. And some of the research he found was really fascinating. what without getting overly technical, basically it our circulatory system, obviously, this is really relevant to stroke, ⁓ people deal in strokes, is as you get down into the the end runs of your circulatory system, there’s capillaries and they’re like thinner than a human hair. And this is where your nutrients and your oxygen are actually exchanged with the cell. And what he found is as we age naturally this inflammation builds up on the lining of our capillaries. And it actually causes the capillaries to swell shut so that now none of your red blood cells can get by. Now, I mean, this is how exquisite our body is designed. ⁓ our capillaries are actually thinner than a red blood cell. So under the most healthy of conditions. A red blood cell actually needs to fold up like a taco to get into our capillaries and deliver that oxygen in the last mile of our circulatory system. So any swelling in that capillary can cause a blockage. And now all the cells downstream are not getting oxygen and in a sufficient quantity. And so they kind of go into what they what he kind of referred to as like a brownout, right? Like it’s a low energy state. They’re doing anaerobic respiration to get some energy. Maybe some of the smaller red blood cells might squeak by here and there and give a little bit, but they’re not getting the full oxygen they need. And what he found is by doing this procedure, just a few times he had very elderly people with very inflamed ⁓ capillaries. He was able to re-establish normal blood flow. And the reason is is oxygen is incredibly anti-inflammatory. ⁓ and a lot of research on that we can go into a little bit later. The Importance of Oxygenating Blood Plasma So, number one, it causes this anti-inflammatory reaction inside these inflamed capillaries to reopen them. But it also does something really amazing that he discovered is when you’re doing this procedure, ⁓ it causes the oxygen to not just attach to our red blood cells like it always does, but it also saturates our blood plasma, which is this clearish liquid that our red blood cells ride on. And Our blood plasma is a thousand times thinner than a red blood cell. So if you imagine these blockages, red blood cells are not getting through, but obviously the blood plasma can get through as long as it’s like as thin as water. So as long as there’s any opening there, and it can immediately deliver oxygen downstream, both to cause an anti-inflammatory impact in the capillaries, but also to all those cells that are starving. And so you can obviously, as we’re talking through this, you can kind of see how this fits folks who are dealing with various different strokes ⁓ and how that can help them as well. BIll Gasiamis (20:32) Yeah. Okay. I d before we spoke I did a little bit of research and found ⁓ as well that there’s some there’s a lot of relevant data with regards to oxygen and ⁓ increasing the oxygenation in the blood. you so tell me a little bit about oxygen. I I don’t understand exactly what that is. I’ve heard of people becoming ill. Because of too much oxygen, ⁓ ill because of not enough oxygen. So what is what what is becoming ill of too much oxygen and why is ninety nine percent saturation not that? Brad Pitzele (21:18) Yeah, yeah. ⁓ good question. So oxygen toxicity can occur if you get too much oxygen under certain circumstances. So if you’re in a hyperbaric chamber too long, it can cause oxygen toxicity. And basically that’s when oxygen gets trapped in your bloodstream and it can’t get out. and You can actually get it without hyperbaric. So hyperbaric is oxygen under pressure. You can get it at normal barracks. So if you were just sitting on the couch breathing oxygen, you could eventually get oxygen toxicity. Now, it would take over twenty-four hours. So if you were breathing just pure oxygen, no exercise, sitting on your couch for 24 plus hours, it starts to get into the risky zone. When you’re doing exercise with oxygen, that’s actually one of the cool things about it that because of the synergies of exercise and oxygen, it’s impossible to get oxygen toxicity for two reasons. one is that reservoir is only a thousand liters. it’s not a high enough dose that you could get a oxygen toxicity. It is a massive dose, it’s about the same amount of oxygen you take in in a day, and you can take it in in 15 minutes, but it’s not more than. And the second reason, even if we could make our reservoir 10x, 100x, and you could exercise nonstop, you still couldn’t get oxygen toxicity because when you’re exercising, your body produces a massive amount of carbon dioxide gas. And that goes into our bloodstream and it increases pressure in our circulatory system. And that actually forces the oxygen out of the circulatory system and into the cells. So it works as a protectant as well from oxygen toxicity. So that’s oxygen toxicity. It’s a real risk. ⁓ Most of the time it’s a very controllable risk. You know, if you’re doing hyperbaric, they’re gonna keep you in there for so long so that you’re not gonna be at risk generally. ⁓ if you’re assigned to do oxygen while you’re stationary at home, they have protocols to make sure you’re not doing it, you know, twenty-eight hours nonstop sort of thing. ⁓ or they have you wear a cannula where where you’re also taking in air and it’s diluting it. ⁓ and in exercised oxygen therapy, it’s not really possible because of the massive amount of carbon dioxide. ⁓ now, not enough oxygen. So if you if you want to measure your oxygen in your blood, the way they normally do it is a device called the pulse oximeter. You can get one for 20 bucks off Amazon. What it does is it looks at how much how many of your red blood cells are saturated with oxygen. And what you’re gonna find in most folks. Is it’s close to a hundred percent. It’s ninety-eight percent, it’s ninety-six percent, ninety-seven percent. ⁓ there’s not a lot of room in our blood for more oxygen. So that’s why it’s important that ewak can actually oxygenate our blood plasma. The same with hyperbaric does the exact same thing, it oxygenates our blood plasma. So BIll Gasiamis (24:26) Okay. I think before you go on, that’s the key ingredient. It’s oxygenating the plasma as well. Where where previously you’ve got let’s say ninety seven, ninety eight percent saturation of your red blood cells. What we’re doing is adding that little bit of extra oxygen into the space where the plasma is. That’s kind of the key difference. Brad Pitzele (24:36) Yes. And there’s two reasons why it’s important. so normally, just for comparison, you and I sitting here, maybe 2% of all the oxygen in our blood is in our plasma, so it’s not very much. ⁓ but under these conditions of IWAT and hyperbaric, we can saturate that blood plasma. And it’s important for two reasons. One, obviously, it increases the oxygen carrying capacity of the blood, but that’s the more minor one. The more major one is that the blood plasma can get into let’s just say the nooks and crannies, smaller spaces in our body where inflammation is blocking off access of red blood cells to downstream cells. And so it can deliver a dose of oxygen where it normally is not able to get. BIll Gasiamis (25:40) You you’ve spent a lot of time on this topic by the sound of things. ⁓ and that’s really awesome. So before we talk about how to actually use a device, how to get a device, how to how to behave while you’re using a device, I wanna understand like how Oxygen and Mitochondrial Function Brad Pitzele (25:52) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (26:02) How you notice the difference in yourself? Because a lot of people ask me what I did in my own stroke recovery. And Brad’s experience is going to be different from the stroke survivor’s experience. My experience was ⁓ I’ve got nothing from the doctors other than let’s monitor your bleed, let’s give you brain surgery. I mean, that’s not nothing. That’s amazing. Like I’m very Brad Pitzele (26:05) Yeah. Yes. BIll Gasiamis (26:31) Grateful for all of that. That removed the the blood vessel that was leaking that was going to potentially kill me. ⁓ so the immediate risk was gone. And then what what I mean I I got nothing is the specialists did their specialty and then I got nothing because they don’t do nutrition, they don’t do exercise, they don’t do meditation, they do brain surgery. And it’s really important for stroke survivors to understand that when you go to a doctor, a neurologist, whoever. Brad Pitzele (26:55) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (27:00) They do a specific thing, and once they’ve done it, they can’t do anything else. And you need to get over the fact that you ⁓ might feel disappointment at the at that I don’t know where to go next, and they don’t know where to send you. Okay, they’re not trained and they cannot legally send you elsewhere. That’s why you’re kind of on your own. So I did meditation, I did nutrition, I did all this kind of stuff and Brad Pitzele (27:16) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (27:27) Somebody who’s interviewed you is Dave Asprey. I would I’ve been following Dave Asprey and a whole bunch of other guys ⁓ probably since around 2012, 2013. And what I learned was how do I reduce the inflammation in my brain? And I had that one area of inquiry, the one area of inquiry that I could personally impact positively by taking out inflammatory foods from my diet. And before that it was, you know, ⁓ processed white bread, it was alcohol, it was cigarettes, ⁓ it was all the stuff that you get in a packet that doesn’t really help to nourish the body, right? So I went back to basics. We’ll call it just for the simplicity of the explanation, we’ll call it protein, ⁓ vegetables and basic carbohydrates like rice or potato. And then what I found was that inflammation decreased, and that was a game changer in how I experienced my brain. And it was a game changer in how quickly I improved neurologically. But just so that people know, it wasn’t the be all end all, it didn’t remove the damaged cells that still are in my head that mean I experienced my the left side of my body in a completely different way than my right side. I’ve got numbness, proprioception issues. I’ve got ⁓ tingling, I’ve got burning, I’ve got ⁓ spasticity, you know, the muscles are tight. So all that stuff is still there. But I have a better experience of the rest of my body and brain because of the things that I took out. But what I didn’t have was the link between exercise, which I do, light exercise, because I’m a stroke survivor. I can’t. use the left side of my body like I used to. so I would do exercise ⁓ like riding an electric bike because it’s easier to pedal, like walking and like doing very light weights at the gym. ⁓ but I didn’t have that oxygen part of the the therapy. And that’s kind of why I interviewed the guys about hyperbaric to understand how oxygen supports how mimicking i a hypoxic brain in the chamber supports ⁓ so how how does like what’s the next part like how does that support the brain to heal let’s give stroke survivors an understanding so that they can kind of grasp that I know we spoke about how oxygen gets into the ⁓ into the red blood cell we spoke about how it gets into the plasma but like Brad Pitzele (30:15) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (30:20) Why is that the next step? Brad Pitzele (30:21) What’s it too? Yeah. It’s a good question. I think you’re right. I you know, we don’t I will say we don’t try to go out and pitch like exercise with oxygen therapy is a panacea or it’s everything for everyone. Even the name of our company, ⁓ one thousand roads, is about paying homage to everyone’s own healing journey and recognizing everyone’s unique journey. So I’ll say that, but So I’ll say that, but what I found about oxygen was in IWA in particular. What was fascinating to me was for me when I was dealing with Lyme disease, which similar to folks who are dealing with the stroke, there’s a variety of different symptoms and s from different causes. And I was trying to treat all these things with different protocols, different supplements that and I found that when I started digging into oxygen, I was shocked at how many of them came back to it. So when you have A stroke, often there’s a lot of ⁓ emerging research about mitochondrial dysfunction. And this is interestingly, mitochondrial dysfunction. Now ten years ago when I was researching it, no one heard of it or cared about it. And it’s really burst onto the scene because you’re gonna find it ⁓ At the heart of so many chronic health conditions, right? ⁓ you’re gonna it’s actually they’re looking at it in cancers, ⁓ chronic illnesses of all sorts, Alzheimer’s, all sorts of cognitive and ⁓ autoimmune conditions, etc., etc. So ⁓ you have this disrupted mitochondria, right? So there was a period of time when your cells were not getting enough energy, whether it was a hemorrhagic stroke and Blood wasn’t being delivered to those cells, so no nutrients, no oxygen, or an ischemic stroke where they were just cut off ⁓ because of a clot or whatnot. And so they were not getting nutrients. In each of these cases, what happens immediately when the cell runs out of oxygen, like I was talking about that brownout, it goes from aerobic respiration to anaerobic respiration. And anaerobic respiration, ⁓ it’s It only can produce 5% of the energy as aerobic. So the cell is in a low energy state, which is the first problem, which means it doesn’t have energy to repair, it doesn’t have energy to take out the trash, detoxify. so it’s kind of stuck. But also ⁓ it creates a lot of metabolic waste. So it creates lactic acid, it creates free radicals, all these things produce more inflammation, like you were talking about. So Now we’ve got these mitochondria, which are dysfunctional. They don’t have the energy to repair. They don’t have the energy to take out all these dead cells or ⁓ you know, all these other byproducts of the immune system and the natural kind of response to this damage, which then leaves more of it hanging around to produce more damage, and they’re producing more damage themselves. So it’s kind of like this swirl, and it’s ⁓ you know, it’s a downward swirl, if you will. ⁓ so When you can re-oxygenate the mitochondria, the first thing you’re doing is you’re giving them the energy to do whatever it is they need to do. ⁓ and that can be the immediate like feeling sharper, like, ⁓ I feel like I can get my thoughts together quicker. ⁓ it can be, ⁓ I feel like I’m more in control of my emotions. And I I don’t feel like sometimes I have a disproportionate emotional response to something. It can be I I don’t have that brain fog. ⁓ you know, that sort of thing. Or I literally have energy. So our brain actually consumes like 20% of all the oxygen in our body. And it’s only like two percent of the mass. So it’s like punching 10x its weight, right? So when your body starts running low on oxygen, it starts conserving. And the one of the things it tells you to do is like cool it, like stop using your muscles. You’re tired. You need to just sit there and veg out. BIll Gasiamis (34:06) Mm-hmm. Brad Pitzele (34:27) while our mitochondria try to catch up. And so that’s often that chronic fatigue that folks with a variety of health conditions, including stroke, feel, which is their bodies like, stop using energy, we don’t have enough. We need to redeploy it for something else more pressing. And so When you can reestablish normal oxygenation, it improves energy. ⁓ it improves sleep, it improves memory. and the the cells have energy to start repairing and detoxifying. ⁓ and then obviously I always think it’s cool because we’re pairing it with oc with exercise. And there’s so much research on the benefits of exercise. You mentioned it was so important, Bill, in in your healing journey. And you know, we know how important exercise is for a stroke survivor. Well, now we’re pairing it with oxygen and we’re using that exercise to catapult more of that oxygen around the body through the circulatory system while your blood vessels are dilated and opening up. So if you’re still dealing with blockages in your microcirculation, which most stroke survivors are. You’re opening them as wide as they they naturally can at that moment, and that’s when we’re feeding more oxygen to them. So it works it kind of hand in hand in that respect. BIll Gasiamis (35:48) All right. Now one glitch. Stroke survivors often are struggling to get into the physical recovery, right? Because the body goes offline, one of the legs doesn’t work, one of the arms doesn’t work. It’s a real challenge, right? So how how can we benefit from that even though we are at just after the acute phase where there is not a lot of capability for Brad Pitzele (36:00) Yes. It’s perfect. Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (36:17) physicality and I I say that so that the stroke survivors listening know that what I’m leading to is that early on it’s probably harder to do ⁓ physical therapy, exercise, et cetera. But again, with time and hope, all of those things can improve. Right. So I I wanna put that out there for stroke survivors, but also like it’s a can it’s a it’s a constraint. Brad Pitzele (36:48) Yeah. And you know, because a lot of our customers are dealing with chronic illness, this is a question that’s not uncommon is like, yeah, but I can’t I’m not out here to run a mile, Brad. I’m like eighty years old and I’m sick or whatever it is. The really ⁓ the really cool thing about ⁓ Ewatt is that it will meet you where you are at. So there is something all of us can do. The goal is to increase your heart rate and your circulation. Cost and Accessibility of Oxygen Therapy Devices and breathe the oxygen. So there’s a few ways you can do it. you know, it doesn’t have to be banging it out on a treadmill trying to get your seven minute mile. ⁓ you don’t need to do that. We have folks, you know, depending on where they are, you can start with slow walking on a treadmill. You can start with calisthenics. You can start with stretching. ⁓ gentle aerobics in your living room. You can start by, you know, lifting weights. You could be sitting and lifting weights with the the hand that’s not. We have folks, and this is probably not so much for ⁓ stroke survivors, but maybe jumping on a ⁓ a rebounder, like a little trampoline if you’ve got the balance one with the handle. ⁓ we have people using under-the-desk pedal bikes, the ones you can get for $49 on Amazon while you’re sitting. BIll Gasiamis (38:03) Beautiful. Brad Pitzele (38:04) while you’re sitting in a chair. And then for the folks who can’t do any of that, we have we even have them doing what I call passive Ewatt, which is they will breathe the oxygen while they get in like a an infrared ⁓ sauna blanket. So infrared sauna will increase your heart rate. And so you will get some benefit out of it. And what normally happens, the the really cool thing about exercising with oxygen is The first thing folks notice, the very first benefit most folks notice when they start doing is the exercise is easier. So I always describe this like if you were ⁓ jogging on a treadmill at, I don’t know, pick a number, you know, four miles an hour and you put the mask on, you wouldn’t feel like you were getting the same exercise at four miles an hour. You you crank it up to four and a half, and then later you crank it up more. And Your endurance actually improves much more quickly than if you were just doing exercise alone. ⁓ and there’s a ton of actually research on you know Olympic athletes using it for performance enhancement, which is not what we’re using for in this, but it’s kind of a nice little side effect. So we have folks who come to us who who are out of condition. We’re not talking about the physical disabilities, but out of condition, we’re like, I couldn’t do. And they’re shocked at what they’re doing and they come back and tell us in three months, look what I’m doing, sort of thing. ⁓ But it will meet you where you’re at. So if you want to do passive Ewatt, you can do that for a while as you’re working and as you start to feel better. Then maybe you’re using the under desk pedal bike. And as you’re getting your balance back and feeling better, maybe it’s a a real stationary bike later or walking on a treadmill and so on and so forth. ⁓ the goal isn’t to bust hump and like try to, you know, get a new record. As a matter of fact, I find that for most folks that sets you back. You wanna kind of you wanna do within an envelope that you’re comfortable with because If we work out too hard, also we set ourselves back because in most chronic health conditions and in stroke, additionally, we talked about this fatigue that’s due to an energy deficit. So if you go out there and overwork, you’re just putting your body in more of a deficit and potentially putting it in more of an inflammatory environment. And we’re trying to do this at a level that’s in you know anti-inflammatory and helping you recover. BIll Gasiamis (40:30) I love that. I love your whole explanation. So in my what I was hoping was you were gonna say that I could just sit there and almost do nothing ⁓ as a stroke survivor, where I’m completely in in just, you know, like week three of the acute after the acute phase, and fatigue is a massive issue and energy is a massive issue, and I’m barely able to stay awake, ⁓ and all of that stuff. And then ⁓ you could do just I hope you I was hoping you were gonna say, But you said the equivalent of ⁓ chair yoga, you know, where all I had to do was just move an arm or move a leg and do something just to get me physically going and then it would benefit. That’s what I love about it. The under-the-leg pedal bike, ⁓ under-the-desk pedal bike is one of the best things because you can strap in your leg with the deficits if you have a leg that has deficits, and you can do all the or the majority of the pedaling with the other leg, which is strapped in. Brad Pitzele (41:07) Mm. BIll Gasiamis (41:29) And you don’t you’re not gonna fall over ’cause you sit in in a chair. ⁓ probably you’re doing it inside your house so the the temperature, the weather is always perfect and ⁓ and you don’t have to door for long, right? You only have to door for a few minutes to start with. Brad Pitzele (41:45) And you’re pulling that other leg around and it’s starting to fire inside here and rebuild those connections. And and as you know, exercise increases ⁓ brain drive neurotrophic factor, which is a growth factor in our brain for BIll Gasiamis (41:51) Mm. Brad Pitzele (42:00) neuroplasticity. So you’re getting you’re getting all of these benefits. So you to your point, for someone who’s if it’s my right leg’s not working and I’m strapped in and my left leg’s doing it, my right leg is firing and it’s firing those neurons at the exact time you have that B D N F as it’s called. So BIll Gasiamis (42:17) BDNF’s amazing. And I also interviewed ⁓ recently a gentleman who ⁓ had spoken about ⁓ Jack Clifford on episode 402 who spoke about kind of ⁓ a protocol that enables you to regenerate blood vessels around the area that’s injured ⁓ to increase the oxygenation and the blood flow ⁓ to potentially those areas where ⁓ brain is offline, not dead. ⁓ so all of these things, ⁓ the previous episode that I recorded with Jack, your episode right now, like all are things that you can do that support brain health, brain recovery, ⁓ overcoming all the some of the challenges that stroke causes. And what I love about this specifically is that you can do it from your house. and you don’t have to go anywhere, but there is a cost. So let’s talk about the cost a little bit because I I want to mention it because of the massive difference to hyperbaric, which can cost up to sixty grand if you go on the right protocol. And ⁓ that’s unattainable for most people, let alone a stroke survivor who just lost their ability to earn ⁓ and may not have sixty grand to splash. Brad Pitzele (43:48) Yeah. BIll Gasiamis (43:48) ⁓ so what is the cost of getting a machine, setting it up and putting it in your house? Brad Pitzele (43:54) Yeah. So we sell two different machines. ⁓ we have one machine that’s eighteen hundred and ninety-nine dollars and the other one that’s twenty-four ninety-nine. ⁓ that’s everything you need to get going other than the exercise equipment. and the machines last a long, long time. I think I You know, I think we actually we’ve been in business since 2018 and we had our first customer come back and tell us they wore out their machine like this year. So I have to stop saying we’ve never had one wore wear out yet. So we’ve had one. ⁓ so it it’s one of I think that’s one of the things that’s great about it is it’s something you can do in your house. It’s something that doesn’t take a lot of time. When I was dealing with my chronic health issue, I was joke around about the ceremonies of counting pills and doing this modality and doing that. And they all in stroke survivors, I think, recognize the same thing. It starts to crowd out your life. And then eventually you kind of throw your hands up. You’re like, I it might be helping, but I just don’t have four hours a day for all this stuff. Like I just I need to go on and and live my life too. So it’s something that ⁓ it’s 15 minutes. You do it three to five times a week in your home. ⁓ it’s a one time expense and then it’s you know, it’s something you’ll have for many, many years. BIll Gasiamis (45:12) I love it. Where are you located? Brad Pitzele (45:15) We’re in a Dallas, Texas area. BIll Gasiamis (45:17) Okay. And are these things easy to get and distribute throughout the United States and other places in the world? I don’t know I’ve never heard of it before. So are there other people around who who sell a product that’s similar or can you access them easily? Brad Pitzele (45:35) Well, we do ship worldwide. ⁓ we ship with US power, so people get a power converter we’ve sold to the UK, to Australia, to all over Europe, Asia, ⁓ South America, ⁓ and of course across North America as well. So ⁓ they’re readily accessible. Kind of our mission was You know, when the doctor asked me if I’d make him first patients, I I I I thought about what you were saying about how like spending sixty grand to find out if something’s gonna work. And I felt like I was taking advantage a lot when I was very ill. So we wanted to make something that was accessible to people who are chronically ill. They might not have the ability to earn money. They’re on a fixed in like I have a I guess a deep personal experience and empathy there sort of thing. So ⁓ that’s yeah. So we ship worldwide. BIll Gasiamis (46:27) Yeah. If somebody wanted to reach out to you just to get more information, to have a chat with you, to look at your website, where would they go? Brad Pitzele (46:35) They would go to 1000roads.com slash stroke recovery. We do. And you can find it at the bottom of that webpage, but it’s 1000 Roads HQ. BIll Gasiamis (46:42) And you have a YouTube channel. Okay. What kind of ⁓ things can people find on the YouTube channel? Brad Pitzele (46:56) you can find everything about protocols, benefits, ⁓ how to use it. ⁓ we hit have some customer testimonials and parts of that. ⁓ just talking about the science of it, people’s experience with it, et cetera, et cetera, different use reasons people use it. BIll Gasiamis (47:17) I think it’s very important to bring information like this to stroke survivors so that they can access things in their own home that’s going to make their life better. I wrote a book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became the Best Thing That Happened, for the explicit reason to give people like a path forward, a journey forward as to how to ⁓ s how to kind of obtain the silver lining in stroke recovery. And when I wrote it ⁓ in 2018, when I started writing it, something like that, 2018, 2019, I was lacking a lot of the extra pieces that I could put into ⁓ the mindset chapter, for example, or the exercise chapter, or, you know, the nutrition chapter. And In the last five or six years, I’ve been picking up those pieces to sort of attach to those chapters because they’re really relevant. And with the exercise chapter, I think this protocol was the one thing that was missing because I made the point of how important exercise was. I didn’t make the point of how you can exercise and get more bang for your buck during that exercise by Increasing the amount of oxygen that you were getting into your ⁓ bloodstream. How would I have known that if I hadn’t come across the science, which I hadn’t? Plus, there’s only so much you can put in each chapter, but this is the perfect addition. Like, and I love it. So I can go on and on about how much I think this is amazing. Brad, I really ⁓ want to thank you for reaching out and joining me on the podcast. Thanks for the work that you do. I’m glad that you’ve been able to get your health back and now you’re helping other people. Brad Pitzele (49:06) Thank you so much, Bill. I appreciate you having me on. BIll Gasiamis (49:08) Well, that’s it for another episode of the Recovery After Stroke podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Might be worth listening to it again. The science here is worth sitting with, oxygenating the blood plasma, reopening inflamed microcapillaries, giving mitochondria what they need to shift out of that low energy state. And the fact that it can be done at home at a fraction of the cost of hyperbaric oxygen therapy makes it worth knowing about. If you want to learn more, or explore the equipment, head to 1000Roads.com Stroke Recovery. Brad has arranged a discount for listeners of this show of between one and 500 dollars, depending on the package you choose. This episode pairs well with the episode 402 with Jack Clifford, which covers a protocol for regenerating blood vessels around the injured area of the brain. The two conversations complement each other. Worth going back to if you haven’t heard it yet. Now, if this episode was useful, please share it with someone who could benefit. And my book, The Unexpected Way That a Stroke Became, the Best Thing That Happened, is available at recoveryafterstroke dot com slash book. And if you’d like to support the show financially, I would love it if you could. You can go and do that via patreon.com/slash recovery after stroke. I’m Bill Garciamas. Thanks for listening. See you on the next episode. The post Brad Pitzele – How Exercise With Oxygen Therapy Brings Hyperbaric-Style Benefits Home appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Ped & Burk bring you a memory filled episode. We kick things off by doing even worse in the 3-2-1 game, then Adam quizzes Burk on the top 5 American pizza chains. Number 5 might surprise you! The boys reminisce on pool days and swimming lessons before Burk brings us this week's perfect song. In the meat, Mm!, of the episode we do a draft of PBS shows! The fellas grew up without cable but who needs it with the lineup that PBS provided! We close the show by igniting our sense of smell from the 90s. Love y'all. Hut Hut!

In this episode of the Meaningful People Podcast, Nachi Gordon sits down with Rabbi Tzadok Katz, a shadchan with over 23 years of experience, for one of the most honest and entertaining conversations about shidduchim you'll ever hear. From speed dating and picture sharing to the stigma facing working boys and the pressure that's been built into the system, Rabbi Katz pulls no punches about what's actually broken, and what's working better than people think. The conversation covers everything from how technology has completely transformed the shadchan's job, to why girls are maturing faster than boys and what needs to change, to the halacha of sharing information and how buried details may be behind most early divorces. Rabbi Katz also shares his philosophy on excitement, readiness, and why "getting the job done" is more complicated than it sounds. Whether you're a single, working with singles, or just fascinated by how the system actually works behind the scenes, this episode is a must-listen. This episode was made possible thanks to our sponsors: ► PZ Deals Download the app and never pay full price again! https://app.pz.deals/install/mpp _________________ ► Colel Chabad Pushka App The easiest way to give Tzedaka https://pushkapp.cc/meaningful _________________ ► EL AL From the Hebrew announcements to the Israeli atmosphere onboard, flying EL AL feels like Israel before you even land. With nonstop flights to Israel and Jewish comfort from takeoff to landing, there's nothing like hearing: "ברוכים הבאים לישראל." Book your next flight with EL AL: https://www.elal.com/eng/usa?utm_source=meaningful&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=gcny_incoming_usa&cid=s:el%7Cm:what%7Ccp:gcny%7Cct:incoming%7Cau:usa _________________ ► Ness Vacation Homes EDEN GARDENS' LARGEST LUXURY HOME COLLECTION Handpicked, high-end homes available exclusively through Ness. OPTIONAL PROGRAM-LEVEL PESACH EXPERIENCE Upgrade your stay with a complete A–Z Pesach setup, including kitchen preparation, catered meals, and fully arranged details by Glatt Gourmet. https://nessvacationhomes.com/ _________________ ► Fine Toys and Gifts Have family in Israel? Send them something they'll actually love. Fine Toys and Gifts delivers American brand toys and gifts anywhere in Eretz Yisroel — LEGO, Playmobil, dolls, board games, and more — with flat rate shipping for just $12. https://www.finetoysandgifts.com _________________ ► Chasdei Lev Chasdei Lev sends truckloads of food and goods to thousands of Rebbes families across 27 communities nationwide. They're in the middle of a major campaign to expand their warehouse, and they need your help to get there. https://www.charidy.com/ChasdeiLev?utm_source=MM&utm_medium=podcast _________________ ► UJA UJA is at the center of Long Island's Jewish community with the shared purpose of strengthening our Jewish future. https://ujafedny.org/five-towns _________________ ► 12 Stones Realty Discover 12 Stones — a luxury private home community in the breathtaking Jerusalem Hills, combining nature, serenity, and elevated living just minutes from Jerusalem. Spacious homes, stunning views, and a one-of-a-kind family atmosphere. https://12-stones.co.il/landing/?utm_source=MPP _________________ ► Town Appliance Visit the website or message them on WhatsApp https://www.townappliance.com https://bit.ly/Townappliance_whatsapp  

To become a follower of Jesus, visit: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/MeetJesus  (NOT a Morning Mindset resource)   ⇒ TODAY'S DAILY SPONSOR: Alex, listener to the MM.   You can sponsor a daily episode of the Morning Mindset too, by going to https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/DailySponsor ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ TODAY'S SCRIPTURE: Matthew 11:11–15 - Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. [12] From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. [13] For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John, [14] and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. [15] He who has ears to hear, let him hear. (ESV) ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ FINANCIALLY SUPPORT THE MORNING MINDSET: (not tax-deductible) -- Become a monthly partner: https://mm-gfk-partners.supercast.com/ -- Underwrite one daily episode: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/daily-sponsor/ -- Give one-time: https://give.cornerstone.cc/careygreen -- Venmo: @CareyNGreen ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ FOREIGN LANGUAGE VERSIONS OF THIS PODCAST: Subscribe to the SPANISH version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Spanish Subscribe to the CHINESE version: https://MorningMindsetMedia.com/Chinese ➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖➖ CONTACT: Carey@careygreen.com   

In this follow-up to their discussion of the Parable of the Ten Virgins, Jesse and Tony make a critical discovery about Matthew 25:13 that fundamentally changes how we should read Christ's eschatological parables. The command to "watch therefore" isn't primarily about staying awake—it's about preparedness for Christ's return. This episode explores the grammatical and theological connections between the Parable of the Ten Virgins and the Parable of the Talents, revealing how Matthew 25:13 functions as a hinge verse that binds these parables into a unified teaching on eschatological readiness. The hosts demonstrate how modern chapter divisions and translation choices can sometimes obscure the organic flow of Christ's teaching, and why understanding these connections matters for Christian living today. Key Takeaways Matthew 25:13 is a hinge verse, not an endpoint. The Greek grammatical structure (using post-positive connectors "therefore" and "for") links verses 1-13 forward to the Parable of the Talents, not just backward to the Ten Virgins. Sleep wasn't the problem in the parable. Both the wise and foolish virgins fell asleep. The issue was preparedness—having oil ready before the bridegroom's arrival, not staying physically awake. "Watch" means preparedness, not wakefulness. The better translation of the Greek word emphasizes alert readiness and preparation rather than literal sleeplessness. The Parable of the Talents explains what preparedness looks like. Christ intentionally connected these parables to show that watchfulness manifests in faithful stewardship and fruitful living. Christ himself made these connections. This isn't just Matthew's editorial arrangement—Jesus deliberately taught these parables together as a unified discourse on eschatological readiness. Sanctifying grace is non-transferable. The wise virgins couldn't share their oil because saving grace and the Spirit's indwelling cannot be borrowed or transferred between people. Eschatological ignorance is divinely ordained. Not knowing the day or hour prevents us from delaying obedience until the last moment, which was precisely the foolish virgins' error. Key Concepts The Grammatical Evidence for Connection The discovery that transformed this discussion centers on how Greek post-positive particles function. Both "therefore" (οὖν) in verse 13 and "for" (γάρ) in verse 14 cannot grammatically stand as the first word in a Greek sentence—they must connect to what precedes them. This means verse 13 isn't simply concluding the parable of the virgins; it's simultaneously introducing the parable of the talents. English translations that insert paragraph breaks between these verses may inadvertently suggest a harder separation than exists in the original text. When Christ says "watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour, for it will be like a man going on a journey," He's creating a seamless logical progression: the reason for watchfulness is eschatological uncertainty, and the nature of that watchfulness is illustrated by what follows in the talents parable. Preparedness vs. Wakefulness in Translation Some English translations render Matthew 25:13 as "stay awake" or "keep alert," emphasizing the sleep imagery from the preceding parable. However, this creates a logical problem: if falling asleep was the sin, then both groups of virgins sinned, since the text explicitly states "they all became drowsy and slept" (v. 5). The better understanding recognizes that the Greek word (γρηγορέω) encompasses a broader semantic range including vigilance, preparedness, and readiness—not just physical wakefulness. The wise virgins weren't praised for staying awake; they were praised for having secured oil before the bridegroom's arrival. This preparedness enabled them to respond appropriately when the moment came, regardless of whether they had been sleeping. Translating with an emphasis on sleep therefore misses Christ's point and artificially seals verse 13 off from the explanation that follows. The Perseverance of the Saints in Action This parable sequence reveals an often-overlooked dimension of the doctrine of perseverance: believers must actually do the persevering. While the Holy Spirit enables, empowers, and ordains our perseverance, He doesn't persevere instead of us—He causes us to persevere. The wise virgins' preparedness wasn't passive; they actively obtained oil before it was needed. They prepared for both the bridegroom's arrival and the potential delay. This illustrates that Christian preparedness isn't anxious vigilance or frantic last-minute effort, but the steady, Spirit-enabled work of sanctification, growing in grace, abiding in Christ, and maintaining readiness over the long haul. The Parable of the Talents then unpacks what this looks like practically: faithful stewardship, productive kingdom work, and diligent use of what God has entrusted to us during the time of waiting. Memorable Quotes The difference between foolishness and wisdom in the first parable is not whether or not the virgins fell asleep. It's whether or not they were prepared for the eventual coming of the bridegroom. - Tony Arsenal When God's people take to see and request his eminent and transcendent power in the lives of somebody else through intercessory prayer, a special bond is created that is very real. - Jesse Schwamb Christ himself has strung these different parables together... Christ was the one who decided that the parable of the talents was a proper explainer for the parable of the wise and foolish virgins. - Tony Arsenal Full Transcript [00:00:08] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 495 of the Reformed to Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:00:14] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:00:18] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. So sometimes the episodes just seem to write themselves, and I say that of course, tongue in cheek from my full providential register. But in the last episode, we went over with great detail, the parable of the 10 virgins, or the 10 bridesmaids found in Matthew 25. And I think we did all the things that we were supposed to do, like contractually. We made really good oil puns. We talked about Petras song, midnight Oil. We talked about 10 bridesmaids, five Ys, five foolish. They're all waiting for the bridegroom who is late because he operates on divine timing. The foolish five run out of oil and begged the five whys to share theirs. The five whys decline, because sanctifying grace is non-transferrable. This is not a potluck. We went through all of that stuff and then what happened is we turned off the microphones and somehow you and I started a, a new conversation about this thing still. And we thought there's more to say and we didn't even expect it. And incidentally, it all hinges on a single word. Yeah. So we're gonna come back to that on this episode because we couldn't help ourselves. And I say that because we couldn't help ourselves. We literally kept talking about this long after the episode had ended. So we wanted to bring it back and it's something new. I think that you and I were really pondering that's gonna be really, really, really good. Yeah. But the other thing that's really good is either affirming with something or denying against something that's the part of the conversation where we either affirm with something that we think is underrated, really exceptional, that we wanna recommend or we deny against something that's just not that great. So Tony, what have you got for us today?  [00:02:04] Tony Arsenal: I'm gonna phrase this in a very particular way, of course, and then I'll explain why I'm phrasing it that way. I'm starting. Great. Um, I am affirming adult baptism upon a profession of faith, and I say it in that particular way. Sure, of course. Um, because I often hear, and I've heard, I mean, I've heard Presbyterian pastors say this, um, I've heard, heard it said that Presbyterians do cradle baptism too. And, uh, and sort of like, sometimes it's kind of in like a, I'm trying to like build a bridge with a, a cradle Baptist. Sure. Um, I actually object to that because the, the basis on which an adult is baptized in a Westminster covenant theology framework is different than the basis, uh, on which a believer is baptized under a traditional Baptist credo, Baptist position. Right. So I'm affirming adult. Profession of faith, baptism or adult baptism upon a profession of faith. Um, and the reason I'm saying that is because my wife and I had this opportunity this morning to go to another church to visit, uh, a friend of ours. It's actually a friend of our son's, which is crazy to say. He's four years old. A friend of our son's from school, his mother, um, who is a Christian, um, but had never been baptized, was being baptized at her church today. And so we got an opportunity to go to their church. It's a church we've been to before. It was not like a brand new church or any, like, super far away. It's a church we've been to before. Um, so we got to go to church and then we went over to the local sort of like swimming hole. Uh, like there's this little, uh, like recreational area called stores pond, I'm sure. Just I know you're familiar with it. Oh,  [00:03:38] Jesse Schwamb: yeah.  [00:03:39] Tony Arsenal: Um, and they did sort of like a testimony ceremony and, uh, all of the baptizes, I don't know if that's the right word, but all of those being baptized. Uh, I would normally call them catechumens, but I don't think that actually that applies here. But all of those being baptized, uh, got up and gave their testimony. There was eight people being baptized, which was fun to see. Um, of course all adults. This is a Baptist, um, a Baptist church that we were visiting. And then we walked over to the, over to the lake and they dunked him in there. And, uh, it was really great to see. And the reason that I'm affirming adult baptism upon a profession of faith, um, uh, is because it's really quite beautiful, right? I think we've, we just recently talked about this, um, and I'm sure we'll talk about it again at some point in the future, but we just recently talked about a baby baptism at my church that, uh, is beautiful in its own right for its own reasons, and it's got its own theological, uh, underpinnings and theological elegance to it. But there's also something just very beautiful about an adult who either has come to faith, um, and I don't, I don't know, um, this woman very well, like I, she's another mom at, um, at Agie school. And so our kids go to school together and so we interact with her periodically at like drop off and other times and they've been over to the house. I don't know her, well, I heard enough of her testimony today to know that she was kind of a nominal Christian. Uh, and they actually started going to church because in order to bring their son to the school that, um, they wanted to go to, which is, uh, the school that my son goes to, the school that your father teaches at, um. You have to have at least one parent needs to be a Christian, needs to be a regular attender, a regular member of a church. And so they, they joined a church, um, to be able to fulfill that requirement. And either, and, and again, I wasn't, I was watching the kids, um, including her son while she was doing this. So I was only kind of hearing with one ear. So either she was a nominal Christian and was kind of like renewing her faith or she was coming to faith for the first time. I'm not sure. But in either case, she had not been baptized previously that I know of. I didn't, I mean, I guess maybe she was baptized as a baby or something, I don't know. But, um, she was being baptized today upon a sort of a new profession of faith or renewal of faith, and it's just very sweet to see. The emotional investment that occurs when someone is recognizing that God's promise is being sealed on them. Right. And I don't know that, I don't know that a lot of traditional Baptist, and this is a pretty like plain Jane Evangelical church. I'm not sure that a lot of evangelicals would really recognize or use that language. But I also think there's an intuitiveness to it that like this is a sign that God gives us. It's gotta be a sign of something. Right. Um, it's not, this was a church that brought sort of broadly Calvinistic part, the baptism of house was actually adopted or adapted from, uh, a modification of question, one of the Heidelberg catechism. So I warned my Presbyterian heart, um. So they're in a context where like covenantal language is not foreign to them, even if it's not the primary structure that they're using. But it was just very sweet and kind and a, a really encouraging, uh, opportunity for the body of Christ to gather. Uh, it was a little bit chilly. It was raining actually, and people, anybody, like everybody was out there and, and in the rain, most people didn't have umbrellas. And you know, people's hair is wet and their clothes are getting wet and nobody cares. Nobody is bothered by it because there is some baptism going on. There's some, uh, some new birth in a roundabout sense and some yes, uh, some, some signification of that new birth in a very direct sense. So that's what I'm affirming today. Adult baptism upon a profession of faith, uh, with an asterisk in a covenantal mode. That's, that's my very specific, very technical affirmation today.  [00:07:19] Jesse Schwamb: There's also something about that's just special. Again, it's not prescriptive, but there's something special about those open water baptisms too. Oh  [00:07:27] Tony Arsenal: yeah.  [00:07:28] Jesse Schwamb: I mean,  [00:07:29] Tony Arsenal: yeah, it was like super picturesque. It was like, I felt like I was on the Jordan with Town of Baptist, like the, like, it was like a, that classic like Baptist minister standing in the water, like it was very right. Very, uh, it looked staged, but I don't think it was, I think it just was actually this, that genuine scenario. [00:07:44] Jesse Schwamb: Right. So, yeah. Yeah. And that's like a beautiful thing. Like we're saying, oh, we're not trying to get into the particulars. It's just to appreciate, I think all of those details. I myself was baptized by my father in a pond and it was glorious. That was, that was special. And there was something about the occasion and the environment as well that was special to me in that. But you're right, like in that Baptist mode, I, I think when it's like properly administered, when it's really appreciated and the theology is rich and richly exemplified in what's happening there to, it's hard not to be moved, I think in the Christian heart, not to be warned by seeing somebody go down into the water to come up into this representation of new life in Christ. I think regardless of your convictions on this, it's hard not to be moved by the power of the spirits.  [00:08:25] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:08:26] Jesse Schwamb: And the sign and seal being delivered to God's people. In a profound way. So whether you're a Pado or Cradle Baptist, I think it really is difficult not to be moved. And especially in an environment like that, you love to see it, right? I mean, this idea of of, um, being able to come to the Lord because he's called you and whatever season of life that is, and then to follow an obedience into baptism is a glorious thing that we should all celebrate. So I love this idea of people on a chilly day in New Hampshire standing in the rain saying, give us the baptism. Like let, let us see the Holy Spirits working through the lives of the people in our midst. Let, we wanna be a part of that. We wanna celebrate that we're here for that.  [00:09:07] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It was just a, it was just a very, very sweet, like, I, like I said with, when we were talking about the, the baby baptism at my church, it's, there's just a, there's a sweetness to it. It's, yes. It's almost like, um, I've never been present for the birth of someone's child other than my own. Um, I've been at the hospital, uh, so meeting the family and the, the baby like very shortly after birth, but I've never been actually there. But there's something reminiscent to that, whether it's a baby being baptized or an adult being baptized where it's, it's just this sort of sweet moment of introduction to yes, this person with, um. To varying degrees depending on the theology, underlying baptism. But this person with a very real new identity that they have been given, yes, it's, it's, the old has gone, the new has come new creation in Christ. Um, whether, you know, I, I don't affirm baptism or regeneration, right? That's not a reformed position. But whether you have a, a position of some form of baptismal regeneration or baptismal efficacy, which is where kind of the, the reform tradition tends to fall, or even just, uh, I say just, I don't mean just in a peor sense, but like, even if, if what's going on is, is entirely a symbol that you know, is being applied to a person, there is a new sense of identity. There's a, there's a, a mark, a, a physical mark that it isn't persistent like circumcision, but it's a physical mark being applied, a visible mark being applied to, to the person claiming them as God's child. Um, and, and there's something very sweet and genuine. And, and to see, like, just to see, like I said, the, just the emotionality. And not a crass like emotionalism, but a genuine, heartfelt, emotional moment that someone is going through like a real, genuine emotion, um, is also not something we actually see that much in the world anymore, which is, it was nice to see. Anyway, I could, I could blather on about baptism and, and adult baptism and baby baptism and how great it is. Uh, God knew what he was doing and he, he gave us this beautiful symbol. So next time you have an opportunity to experience a adult baptism upon a profession of faith in a covenantal mode, uh, than you make sure you take advantage of that.  [00:11:14] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. You know what it's like for me and certainly I, baptism is way more profound, uh, than this example I'm about to give. But there's something within me that feels similarly or appreciates in a similar way when you're participating or just viewing a wedding. Yeah. Isn't there? There's that new identity. There's the vows and the covenants being made and promises being given and that that's just like a really meaningful, profound thing. And then like, you know, a thousand times, a million times, that is to participate or to witness again, baptism. And in my own church, which is Cradle Baptist, the one I attend, baptism, I'll say it this way in like this most trite way again, is like a super big deal. And one of the things I really appreciate is when that person, after they've given their testimony and they've gone down into the water and they come back up, our congregation goes like wild. Like just wild in celebration. Yeah. And at first I was like, wow, this. This seems like too much. Guys, can we take, can we take it down now? Just the Lord's day after all. And then I was with you in the sense of like, really, it's like we, you and I have talked so much about like the, the way in which you're trying to sometimes manufacture or theologians try to bring in some sense of emotionalism to kind of convey some kind of like, really, so I can demonstrate that I have a heartfelt and genuine commitment and love for God and Christ and you know, we can leave that as it is right now. Here is a place where I think that celebration is like just wholly and totally appropriate.  [00:12:36] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:12:36] Jesse Schwamb: And so I love that there's genuine enthusiasm and excitement over those things. And you're genuinely gonna get that more in the kind of traditional Baptist mode of this thing. I'm just saying celebrate where you celebrate, you know, get in where you fit in. Yeah. And so I think that your admonishment to us and affirmation there is really good. Um, totally about that. And all the better if you can do it in a, on a rainy day in a pond in New Hampshire. That sounds like a glorious spot.  [00:13:02] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it was interesting. It was good. It was a good time. Jesse, what do you got for us tonight? [00:13:07] Jesse Schwamb: I'm also gonna go affirmation, and I think we can file this one for me, under seeing the power of God in his, that power demonstrated in his transcendence and in his eminence. All our timing is gonna be off on this, but there's a certain compulsion I have to report back to everybody. And that reporting is really on my wife who did undergo some surgery this week. And I'm about to say a bunch of things medically so you can, I mean, there's nothing in here like grotesque, but I say that because somebody might be like, wow, you're seeing a lot of personal things. I have her permission to share all this. But of course some of you may remember, she spoke on the podcast, I dunno, like a half dozen episodes ago. Go back and listen to that. She talks about her medical journey, but she just had this big surgery. And here's the reason why I want to report back. I sense that when God's people take to see and request his eminent and transcendent power in the lives of somebody else through intercessory prayer, that like a special bond is created that is very real. So I think when somebody comes to their brothers and sisters and says. Would you pray for us? Would you pray for me? That's not just an act. I think of vulnerability. It's one of of truly seeking after what God desires for his people to help and to intercede for one another. And there's something special about that. And then equally special, and I think binding is when people say, yes, I will pray. And they make themselves committed to doing that. When that relationship is established, what I think is like mutual accountability, mutual yielding to one another, mutual submission. The lovely thing about that is I think there ought to be a reporting back. I really feel highly convicted about that because so many people, including those in the from Brotherhood hanging out in the Telegram, TT Me Reform Brotherhood, they have prayed for us. My church has prayed, my parents have prayed. You have prayed. So many people have prayed. And so my wife did go undergo an 11 hour surgery just two days ago. And uh, I can say that that surgery, the doctors, the three surgeons who are working as part of this interdisciplinary team, this multifactorial, multidisciplinary team, were able to accomplish everything that they wanted to do, which was a wild accomplishment. And it was more intense than they thought it was going to be. But I can say to you very, very clearly, very cogently that, uh, God was in the midst of all of these things in a mighty and powerful way. Now, I know people are prone to say that kind of thing. I'm saying it because it was all exceptionally real. Not only as I sat there waiting for the next updates in the waiting room, did I really sense a peace of God that I haven't felt before, even in all of my wife's previous surgeries, when this was the most uncertain, this was the biggest, the highest risk that was all real. But at the very end, and I'll, I'll spare a lot of the details, uh, but at the very, very end when the surgeon reported back to me all the things that they did, which included having to take out a portion of her bowel and stitch it back together again, because she had some endometriosis that had embedded itself in there and that was unknown to them. You can't see that stuff in an MRI and yet God ordained that the right surgeon, the right preparation would be in the room and ready to go if something like that occurred and it did. That she had a full hysterectomy, which we were praying that it would be lack laparoscopic because they were concerned they would not be able to do it that way. And God answered that prayer that she needed to have her ureter, the thing that connects your kidney to your bladder, that also was filled with endometriosis. It had to be resectioned and repaired. And it was that the end of all of this, what the main doctor kept saying to me was, we wanted to put your wife in a position where her anatomy would determine the outcome and that you would have all of the skilled persons in the room to provide the best care, the best expertise possible. And what he said to me at the end is, it's strange things just kept breaking her way. And I said, well, I can tell you why that is. That's because God was answering the prayers of so many people who are praying for her. And so I'm so thankful for everybody who's prayed. She's in a critical time of healing right now. Our prayers now are turning to just that God would solidify the work that he has already accomplished, that there'd be no complications, that all the things that they did, and they did a lot of things. The surgeon in fact said to me at the end, it's gonna feel like she got hit by a truck. And that's actually not a bad description of what we did to her. And so the next days are the ones where we're really pleading for God to do this kind of miraculous healing that he started by providing all the things that he's, he's already done. I, as a husband, cannot be more thankful, more grateful, without words for everybody who has prayed. Uh, for my parents, for you guys, Tony, for all of our friends who reached out for so many people, I've realized I have a part-time job now just answering text messages, uh, on behalf of my wife for those who desperately are loving her through prayer. And again, I think I'd affirmed before. I'll say this very quickly, about the elders praying over her. About what a sweet time that was. Not only did that happen, but uh, unbeknownst to me until a little bit later on in that day did I learn that a bunch of women in the church had taken it upon themselves to schedule an 11 hour block where there was gonna be somebody praying every hour for my wife. And, um. Man, if, if, if this is not what the family of God does for one another, I don't know what they do.  [00:18:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:18:35] Jesse Schwamb: So I'm so grateful. Thank you for everybody who has prayed. I also don't want to testify. That's the power of God and his eminence. And his transcendence is just unreal loved ones. It's unreal, it's otherworldly and he comes in power when his people pray. He does good work and it's very James one. There's a lot that even as I'm worried now about the outcome of this surgery and how it will play out, that I can still somehow truly count it all joy, because it is God who does these things in our lives to test and to prove out our faith and our love towards him, because he's in fact good. And I'm just testifying to that goodness in the midst of this difficulty. So wherever you are at. For whatever it's worth. And I think it's worth a lot. God is faithful. He will do the work that he began, and he will meet us when we need him, where we are at in his loving kindness because of his great mercy. So be encouraged by that. And again, my sincere gratitude.  [00:19:36] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't have much that I can add to that. I mean, I, I, I think, um, prayer is an undervalued commodity in the church.  [00:19:48] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:19:49] Tony Arsenal: And. As good and right as it is for us, uh, to pray when there's some big, um, big need like this. Um, and, and there's no, there's no, uh, dishonor or shame in asking for prayer in the big situations. I think sometimes too, like we forget that prayer is just as vital and just as important and just as powerful and just as meaningful and just as everything in the small things. Amen. Um, and, and I also think, you know, sometimes we, maybe this is just me, but like sometimes we go into, we go into a, a scenario like what you and your wife are going in and we sort of like prepare ourselves for. The hard providence to come. Like, I don't know if, if that's where you've been at, but I know when I'm facing things like this, um, I'm, I'm kind of like asking people to pray, expecting God to bring the hard providence.  [00:20:43] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:20:44] Tony Arsenal: Um, and maybe that's just a coping mechanism to sort of like get out in front of it in case he does. Um, but like that God, God doesn't, uh, how do I wanna say this? I don't think that God takes any particular joy in bringing the par, the hard providences. Mm-hmm. And I actually think he does take a particular joy in answering the prayers of his people unto good effect. Um, I think there's a particular joy that God brings when he, God has in his own divine accommodated, anthropo, pathic way, um, when he can make sure that everything just breaks the right way for his children. Right. In a really difficult, complex, long surgery. Um, and all of the butterfly effect elements of, of how all of those different things are gonna, you know, spread out. Right. I don't know if this surgeon's gonna come to faith because you attributed his success in this surgery to, you know, to, to God. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. Um, but, but either way, there are a thousand, a million imperceptible little ways that God's providence flows out of these kinds of situations that we will never know. Um, and he, he takes great joy in answering the prayers of his people and. Yes, it's true that when God, when we ask God for bread, he does not give us a stone even when he gives us the hard providences, right? The hard providences are not a stone, but he likes to give us really good bread.  [00:22:10] Jesse Schwamb: Amen.  [00:22:10] Tony Arsenal: And I think at times, um, we, we sort of almost doubt that he is able and willing and joyful to do so. So that's more, I think, more a reminder for me than it is for anyone else. 'cause I, I have a tendency to prep myself for the hard providences, um, before they come and, and pray to that effect that God would comfort me in the midst of whatever trials is coming. Um, maybe I need to show a little bit more faith in a good God who gives good gifts, um, to pray and thank him in advance for the good providence is the, the easier the soft providence is that he has in store for his people as well.  [00:22:46] Jesse Schwamb: Well, I think we all need that reminder from time to time and I, again, I like where you've taken that. It is a good reminder to pray for the people that you love around you all the time, or just ask. What's something that you would like some prayer for, especially maybe something that you can't pray for yourselves through this time? I can't tell you how many times somebody has asked to pray with me or for me, and they pray in ways that just astound me. I dunno if that makes sense. Yeah. Like just, I get off the phone and I think, well, that was spirit filled because I didn't know that I needed to hear those words. I didn't know exactly like what needed to be stitched together in terms of the requests that would really minister to my heart and provide me encouragement. But course the Lord knows, and even in prayer as you're saying, he's giving that good gift to each other.  [00:23:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:23:35] Jesse Schwamb: When we pray with one another, when we pray for one another, it's just a remarkable thing that I fail to understand and I definitely fail to appreciate. So in this season of being able to see it very clearly as if like the clouds. Parted and I could see some of this power of prayer and what God does in prayer, what God does to us in the prayer of others. I can't help but testify again. I feel it is my duty to do so, actually. So be encouraged, loved ones that this is a powerful weapon that God gives us. I think you and I have said before, Tony, maybe we can also partly this into like another reform. A brotherhood bumper sticker. I said another, like, we have bumper stickers. We don't, we definitely should. At some point  [00:24:17] Tony Arsenal: we do have at least one cross stitch pillow floating around out there  [00:24:20] Jesse Schwamb: somewhere. That's true. Yes. We need to get our hands on that. And maybe here's something else we could add to it, which is of course, when, when we work, we work, but when we pray, God works. And so I've just been reminded of that over and over and over again. The situation, like you said in the big times and the small times, what a blessing, what God is like this, who cares. Who again, is what I've been thinking about is how high and lifted and transcendent God is, so that like he's not moved in, uh, in a dis, like a passionate way by this nonsense of our world. He's steady and steadfast. You know, Isaiah 26, like our God is an everlasting rock, and yet he's eminent in sending his son to identify with the kind of pain even my wife is in right now. In her time of trial and struggle. He is there and yet separated and so powerful that he orchestrates all the details himself. I mean, what God is like this.  [00:25:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:25:11] Jesse Schwamb: So this is the one to whom we get to bend his ear, as it were, and we'll avail ourselves of that opportunity. Always. You're gonna have to stop it, Tony. Otherwise, I'm, this whole episode is just gonna be me talking about, which would not be bad, I suppose, but me talking about how good our God is, I suppose we can talk about that actually in the context of Matthew 25. [00:25:30] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. You better watch yourself before you wreck yourself. Is that how it goes? But I did that, that took a month off of podcasting. I forgot how to do transitions. Not that we were ever great at transitions. It's just slamming into gear  [00:25:43] Jesse Schwamb: now. That loved one's a segue that you, you don't even know about yet. You didn't even get it. So let me help you try to get it. 'cause I, I wanna do this quickly, but of course it's always the best part of our conversations where we can get to the scripture. Let me read just the first, uh, 13 verses Matthew 25, and I'm gonna read them from the version that I read on the last episode because part of the fun of this conversation that Tony I had had subsequently was, do you remember what you said to me, Tony, about, about the, this, I don't wanna say the word yet, but this word. [00:26:10] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I, what I remember is, um, feeling confused because I, I said, I thought this was like a Mandela effect kind of thing. Yes. We might have to, I'll explain briefly what that is in that I could have swore this word was in the, in the Bible. Like I was, it was so ingrained in my head that this was there. And then I'm trying to find it in my, my version that I'm bringing in. It's not there. And the obvious answer is it actually was there in the version that Jesse was reading and is there in many translations. Um, so we'll, we'll read the translation, uh, Jesse read, and then we'll talk about why not only why this is, uh, important in the light of our last conversation, but actually how it's important in light of what will likely now be the beginning of our conversation on the next parable, and in the next week or maybe two of, of the discussion of the parable of the talents here, or one of the parable and talents. [00:26:57] Jesse Schwamb: So this is Matthew 25, beginning in verse one. Then the kingdom of heaven may be compared to 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the body groom. Now five of them were foolish and five are prudent. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Now, while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. But at midnight there was a shout. Behold the bridegroom come out to meet him. Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the prudent, give us some of your oil for our lamps are going out. But the prudent answered saying, no, there will not be enough for us. And you go to and instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves. And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast and the door was shut. And later the other virgins also came saying, Lord, Lord, open for us. But he answered and said, truly, I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore, stay awake for you. Do not know the day nor the hour.  [00:28:02] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. So the part of this, uh, passage that I was having, like a brain cramp on and couldn't figure out is actually verse 13 and, um. The reason this is important and ties in, and this is part of why Jesse and I after we sort of had like a second, the beginning of a second episode, following the last episode, um, wanted to come back, is that this, this verse in verse 13 actually makes, um, in effect it makes the second parable that we're gonna talk about the parable of the talent here. It actually makes that parable like an extension of the first one or maybe an explanation of the first one, or further clarification. I'm not sure. It, it links the two together in a way that's really significant. So we need to make sure we really understand. Verse 13, and I'm gonna read verse 13 in my translation to demonstrate kind of where I think the, the question starts and says, watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. And what Jesse and I kind of like marveled at is, um, the word for watch, uh, it's actually the same word we get the name Gregory, for, uh, from, um, the, the idea of being wakeful or alert or not falling asleep. That's that's there in the word. Um, and, and I don't think it's a bad translation. I don't. I always, um, wanna be really hesitant to sort of like make an argument that you wanna like build an entire theological point on a translation or a mistranslation. I think those are really shaky arguments, and even more than that, I don't ever wanna make an argument that makes it so people feel like they can't trust their English bibles. So the, the difference between the version that Jesse read with, you know, statements of being awake or stay awake or be alert versus watch, or more generalized alertness language, which is I think probably a better, not, not that the other one's bad, but this is probably a better translation. And it's a translation decision that's trying to connect that verb back to something that was said about the virgins. Right, right. The, the virgins, um, and this is, this is where our conversation went, is actually the, the sort of like real time epiphany that Jesse and I had, maybe I just had Jesse new, the, the sort of like real time epiphany that both, both groups of virgins fell asleep. Right. And so being asleep is not the necessary, it's not the thing that makes the virgins foolish.  [00:30:35] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:30:36] Tony Arsenal: The, the translation, I think, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, not like a mind reader and I haven't read anything from the translation committees that explain that this is why they did it. But I'm, I'm, I think it's reasonable to think they translated in light of that wakefulness element of being alert because of the fact that the virgins fell asleep and they were sort of caught off guard when the bridegroom came. But the reason I think that's an over translation is exactly the dynamic we pointed out last week, falling asleep was not the problem,  [00:31:04] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:31:05] Tony Arsenal: What was, what was the problem was not being prepared. And so this concept of watch, therefore is more, I think is more about preparedness because of the fact that the parable is about preparedness, not about wakefulness. So when we wanna think about translations, yes, verse 13 comes after verses one through 12, but there's this little word therefore that connects this one with the next one, right? And so it's watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. If that was the end of, end of the book of Matthew, right, right there, then that therefore would be like, because of what I just said, watch for, you neither know the day nor the hour, you know, neither the day nor the hour. But then in verse 14, it starts with four. It will be like a man going on a journey who called his servant and entrusted them through his property. That word for, that's another connecting logic word. So it's watch therefore, so like, because of what I just said, be alert, watch, be wakeful, be mindful, be prepared for, you know, neither the day or the hour. Four, because it will be like a man going on a journey, right? The reason you have to watch is partially, or the reason you have to watch is that you will neither know the day nor the hour. And the reason you will neither know the day nor the hour is because it will be like a man who's going on a journey called his servants and entrusted them to his property, right? So these two parables are connected and we have to sort of like understand what that watch word means and how it relates to the previous parable to understand now what it is that the next parable is trying to say and how the two relate to each other.  [00:32:45] Jesse Schwamb: I think that's right. It's like you said before, we talked about last time, it's not that sleep was the problem. That's not where the condemn nation comes in. It's merely that sleep revealed the lack of preparedness. Right. Like I suppose if you wanted to change it up, you could be like, and then they all played Uno for a while and the lambs were going strong and then suddenly the bride coon came out and it was like, okay, well it was the fact that all the lamps were still burning. Yeah. But as they were still burning and that time was passing and the bridegroom delayed, providentially, then it was only those imbued with that grace who already I prepared for that moment in time. Not that they were all playing Uno itself. So, which, which I know this is like my own translation, which is horrible, but. It is important if somebody thinks like we're overworking this.  [00:33:26] Tony Arsenal: Right?  [00:33:26] Jesse Schwamb: It's important, I think, because it, it's gonna set up the next stuff, which we're gonna get to, uh, I presume in the next episode. But this verse is, is like a, is like kind of like the keystone. It's, it constitutes like the entire moral conclusion of both this parable, but the other two that are just like it, that come before it in different ways. And of course it's like structurally parallel to a bunch of like mark and stuff that we may or may not get to. And then it echoes like the broader, all that discourse as well. So I was just looking up quickly, mark 13, in other words like where do we hear this same type of language? Where does it almost rhyme in our minds? And so if you go over just to mark 1333, and this is the parable of the fig tree. So we won't get into that there, but you'll see kind of like the same conclusion, the same, I kind of high and lifted point at the end. And this is where Jesus says, see to it, keep on the alert. For you do not know when the appointed time will come. So instead, really what we're getting at is there's all this language about watchfulness, like the, the present imperative in Greek. Keep on watching, be continuously a work, uh, alert, but it's not like watchfulness in this like anxious, vigilant, kind of nervous energy uncertainty, but it's the prepared readiness of one who has oil in the vessel and knows that the bridegroom is coming regardless of whether you fall asleep. [00:34:46] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And again, you know, the, the way that, um, the way that English translations are broken up into paragraphs and into, with headings and editorial content and chapter divisions and verse divisions, um, those things are all helpful and they're all really useful and I'm glad they're there. Uh, they're not inspired though, right? They're not the word of God. The, the, for the little, the little super script 14 before the word four and the little super script 13 before the word watch. Is not, it's not inspired and neither is the little, at least in the version I'm looking at on logs Bible start, neither is the little paragraph break that separates these two. So we, we can equally read and again, like I haven't done a full Greek exo treatment of this and maybe I should to, to know whether there is actually some real specific grammatical reasons why we would break these. There probably is, but we could equally read it saying, but he answered truly I say to you, I do not know you watch therefore for, you know, neither the hour or the day nor the hour. For it will be like a man going on a journey who called his sermon or we could read it, watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour for it will be like a man going on a journey. Right, right. We can, we can, the way that we read it, we can, we can clump verse 13 with what comes before it and sort of imply a full break or we can clump it with what comes after it and imply a full break before it. In reality, we shouldn't do either of those. Right. This is in, this is linked together in the, the Bible specifically to take these two parables. And pull them together. Right. Thematically, they're the same. They match, they, they have kind of this rhyming nature that like, there's, there's this theme of like, these people who have a specific task and they accomplish it to greater or lesser degree. And the ones who do it, right, the ones who do it well are rewarded in some sense because of their preparedness and their diligence. And again, I, I don't, um, I know that we can't overemphasize this because this is God's word, right? Right. The, the difference between foolishness and wisdom in the first parable is not whether or not the virgins fell asleep. It's, it's whether or not they were prepared for the eventual coming of the bridegroom, meaning that they had everything they need, not only to, um, and this is a, a real time realization I'm having here, not only to be ready when the bridegroom came, but to be prepared for the long haul until he came. Right. I think that's actually probably another big part of this pearl that we didn't even really talk about is that there's a, there's a, um. There's an implied statement here about the, the, um, perseverance of the saints in the fact that the saints have to persevere. Right? That's a corollary of the doctrine, of the perseverance of the saints, is that we actually have to do the persevering, right? Empowered by the spirit. Enabled by the spirit. Ordained by the spirit, of course, but that doesn't mean the spirit is the one who's persevering, right? Right. The spirit is not persevering for us. The spirit is causing us to persevere, but it's still us that he's causing to persevere. That's a major part of that. This next parable and, and we'll read, we'll read the parable here and then we'll get into some of the beginning part. I think this next parable here is really about like what does that perseverance look like? What does that diligence until the master comes, looks like. It's kind of like taking this, this period of time where the bride groom is delaying and the virgins all are becoming drowsy and sleeping. Well, what does that actually look like? What does it look like for the virgins who have gotten the oil ahead of time versus the virgins who waited and then had to go buy it? Well, the parable of the talents in this next passage shows us what it means to be prepared. And part of what it means to be prepared is to be diligently working to advance the kingdom of God diligently working to pursue and excel in righteousness, insofar as it depends on us, and insofar as we're empowered by the Holy Spirit. So these two, these two parables are linked together and um. Maybe we're falling into this trap a little bit, although I think because of the way we're kind of doing these, these passages in sort of organic fashion, rather than really insisting on sort of hermetically sealing off each parable, we have a tendency, I think to say like, this parable is this right? This parable is that. And we don't really ever talk about them unless you're in like a parables of Christ Seminary class or like you're reading a book on the parables of Christ. Um, if you're just sort of looking at popular teaching on parables or you're. Like a sermon series through the parables. I don't think you're gonna run into a lot that's gonna show these connections and relationships between the parables in the way that I think we're, I'm stumbling upon is maybe not right. But that's what it feels like. We're sort of like discovering in real time together that these parables are so organically linked to each other that we really can't seal them off from each other or we do some violence to the text.  [00:39:36] Jesse Schwamb: Right on. Yeah. And speaking of that whole life, whole preparedness, whole watchfulness, John Owen writes, in the mortification of sin, the whole of Christian living may be described as a preparation for eternity, mortifying sin, growing in grace, abiding in Christ, waiting for his appearing, which really strikes me as maybe a summary of like an umbrella of all of these parables of ones that we've just seen most recently and the ones that we're about to go into because. The ground for the watchfulness here is that like legitimate eschatological ignorance. This is like a deliberate, divinely ordained uncertainty. So of course, like knowing the precise moment would just tempt the flesh to delay until the last possible moment, which is precisely the error of the foolish virgins who assume that there was enough time to obtain the oil after that midnight cry. So all of this is happening right now. Like I, I do think this verse is just so critical now. It's like really a weird linchpin. It is like the capstone in a strange way of like the three parable sequence in the olive discourse, which we already talked about, the 10 virgins, the talents, and the sheep and the goats. Because it strikes me as you were speaking, Tony, what was coming to my mind is like each is almost escalating from, as it were, like a watchfulness to like a fruitfulness, to like a final judgment. And each of those are kind of building on each other. In other words, like there is a logical consistency and chronology to those things that Christ is leading us through. And the verse therefore doesn't stand alone. It's like this hinge between the eschatological warning of the virgin narrative and the productive stewardship demanded in the parable of the talents. And I think unless you see that here, it's like saying, listen, the watchful person does this. You know, why should you be watchful because of this example I've just given to you. So within that Oliver discourse, there's the exhortation to watchfulness, which occurs with that striking force. Stay awake, be ready, watch. And of course, I think we're just joining in all the reform exe and the pros who had this instinct of reading those with a unity. Yeah. The whole discourse is like the L, the Lord's own like pastoral Herman Hermeneutic, I guess on like Daniel nine or whatever. So like it is important, and I think it is maybe a bridge that, at least in my mind, I often didn't build or didn't seem necessarily because you're like, well this, this ends one. And the warning is to be watchful. And now here's something else. That's something interesting you should consider. Yeah. But really this is all one and the same, all, all. Maybe one like well like parable to rule all parables, like it's a single parable told in many sequential pieces.  [00:42:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Which is something we saw before, right? Yes. And maybe, maybe not to belabor the point and, and again taking, take this in the context of me saying I never want to try to make an argument that you must be able to read Greek in order to profit from the scriptures. [00:42:20] Jesse Schwamb: Sure.  [00:42:20] Tony Arsenal: All of that said, it's very helpful to understand a little bit about how Greek works, even if you don't actually learn Greek. So for example, and here's, I promise you that this is not just me being nerdy about Greek. I'm looking at the ESV and verse 13 says, watch therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. Right? So the, the command comes, uh, before the logical connector that sort of like, is explaining why, right? Because of, because of something. Right? When it's the thing that comes before, maybe it's the thing that comes after, usually it's probably before, but because of this thing, watch therefore for, you know, neither they or the hour, right? And then in verse 14 it says four. It will be like a man going on a journey. This is where I think understanding how Greek works a little bit is important. Both the word therefore and the word for. In Greek, which it's, it's therefore it's un OUN or omega upsilon new un and gar for four. Both of those are what's called post positive, and what that means is that it cannot be the first word in a sentence. So, um, verse 13 is translated very word order, literal watch. Therefore that ma matches the Greek very closely. Verse 14 is not right, right. Verse 14, if you translated it very literally would be like, uh, let's see. Would be. Just as for a man, and I get like, you can hear there, right there, why we don't translate it that way is 'cause it's really awkward, but it's just as for a man, uh, a man went on a journey or a man, um, going on a journey who called his servants. Right. The, the point of what I'm trying to say here though is that that subtle variation in the verb, the command coming first versus this post positive, logical connector coming first, that that sort of like gears your brain towards a certain conclusion. Right? Right. Watch, therefore we, we have a tendency to think like watch connects to the previous one. Right? This verb must connect us to the previous one, where the next one we see four being the beginning of a word, beginning of a sentence. We feel like that's the beginning of a new thought, right? This logical connector at the be very beginning of a sentence is like starting a new thought. The problem with that is, one, it doesn't actually match the Greek word order in both cases. Neither of these is the first word of the sentence, but let's just think of it in as a post positive and say that it should have been the first word of the sentence, but the Greek grammar won't allow it to be.  [00:45:00] Jesse Schwamb: Right.  [00:45:01] Tony Arsenal: That connector in both cases is linking us to the previous sentence, and that means both of these sentences are linking us to the previous sentence, meaning both segments of thought are linked to other together. Verse 14 is linked to verse 13, and verse 13 is linked to verse 12. There's no good grammatical reason that I can see with the 30 seconds of looking at it and the five semesters of Greek, right? Keep that in mind. I'm not an expert, but there's no good reason I see immediately from the Greek text, right? There are certain phrases and indicators in Greek that tell you like, this is a new segment of thought. I don't see those here. What I see is a very strong, strong, logical sequence of connection between 13 and 14, right? Therefore, watch for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. Well. Going back to our discussion about translating that in terms of sort of general watchfulness or preparedness or translating it in light of sleep. These are the things that are important for us to think about when we're reading English translations. 'cause this keys us off to what the, what the translators thought in terms of what belongs with what translators. Even though there's a paragraph break here in the ESV, the translation that says be awake or be, you know, uh, do not sleep like this language that's specifically connected to this, like not falling asleep aspect of watchfulness, they're signaling to you that this sentence belongs with the parable above it. Right. Almost exclusively. Right. Because there's nothing in the next parable that has anything to do with being awake or sleeping.  [00:46:35] Jesse Schwamb: Right?  [00:46:36] Tony Arsenal: Right. So, so by translating it as sleep language or do not sleep language, they're sealing it off from the parable that follows and they're kind of like making it this firm break in the text. That's not there in the Greek. That language is not there in the Greek. And it's, um, again, I think the sleep language, that's certainly a part of this word and it's, it's fine for us to interpret this word in light of the parable that came before it, as long as we're not letting that interpretation of it in light of the word that came before it seal it off from the next parable. And I, I worry that if we, if we think about it in terms of the sleepiness aspect of it, which again, there's already some contextual reasons why that doesn't make a lot of sense. Why would, why would Christ command to the people that are listening to him be about not falling asleep when falling asleep was not the problem in the, in the bearable He's told. Right, right. But the problem was, was be prepared. And it actually may be, this is also maybe an overt translation. A better translation might be, be prepared, therefore, right. Be alert, be wakeful, be be mindful, be uh, be on top of things. Right. Be ready for anything. Might be a good way to look at this. Be ready for anything for you. Neither know the day nor the hour. Four. It will be like a man going on a journey and called his servants and entrusted them to his property. So he tells the parable of the virgins, which is, is all about being prepared for the sudden, unexpected coming of the Lord after a delay, after he tarries. And then he says, for it will be like a man going on a journey. Well, what will be like a man going on a journey? The coming of the Lord, the coming of the bridegroom, the coming of the one, the promised one from the previous parable, the bride groom. For that will be like a man going on a journey for the day on the hour, which you do not know. That will be like a man going on a journey, I think. Um, and this will be the last thing I say before I, I let you jump in and, and we're getting close to ending anyways here. I think that, um, these parables are so often, uh, this parable about the talents and the parallels. I mean, there's several different par uh, parables that have to do with this theory. This sort of like scenario of like a master is giving some, some funds to his servants, or a man going on a journey. He's giving some funds to his servants and he expects them to make a return. Right? That's a, there's multiple parables that tell that same basic principle. This one here. Is an eschatological one, but I think it gets clumped in with the others in sort of this idea. And it doesn't hurt that the word talents has a meaning in English, right? It gets clumped in with these sort of like way of teaching this that's like Christ has given you some special abilities and some gifts, you better use it for his glory. Or you're all done. That's not really at all what this is talking about, at least this version of it. You might be able to make an argument for some of the others that that is about kingdom fruitfulness and, and to much is given, much is expected, right? That's the output of those parables. This one is really, it's explicitly about being prepared for this sudden arrival of the bridegroom, uh, after he delays, after he tarries. So that's all I'll say for now on that. I just, this is. This is why we had to do another episode, right? Like, because we couldn't do all of this Last week we started and we were like, we gotta push pause, save something for next week. This is one of those like realtime discoveries, realtime uh, epiphanies that I'm just like, I cannot believe I didn't see this in the text before, but I'm so glad that we're doing this deep dive. This sort of like long running slow burns through these parables because these are the kinds of things we're able to see when we really slow down and take our time.  [00:50:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's that good old like crockpot theology. I'm with you. There is like in the next par we'll see a kind of manifest fruitfulness that comes from a preparedness and if, if we divorce that we're gonna get to the end of the next parable. And I think what we'd find is that, wow, the master seems super harsh here. Why is he so ticked off that the people with whom he entrusted all of these resources didn't do anything with them? It just seems like he's overzealous in saying, well, you just wasted a lot of things until you see like that full emphasis that comes all the way through these other parables in terms of the reason why. Then I think it starts to make more sense. So I did have to look it up like you're right, that the NIV has therefore keep watch. The King James version also is using watch, therefore. So if that's the emphasis, in other words, if the thrust is you ought to be watchful and prepared in all of your life for all the things preparing for Christ, doing the things in the work of Christ. Now it makes sense that to go away again and to have this time of not knowing when the perusia happens and being unprepared and unfruitful because you were not watchful, because you did not do the things you ought to have done and be making yourself again aware and vigilant in that awareness, then there's a problem. And that's like gonna be, I think, the full thrust of what's gonna happen that we're gonna see next when we look into this parable. I think it's important to remember that this parable is not as it sometimes is presented like an allegorize timeless moral maxim that's divorced from its eschatological referring. Yeah, the 10 virgins are figures of those awaiting Christ perusia. The oil is not some kind like vague symbol of like good works in a ian sense, but I think it's best understood as the reality of saving grace and the spirits in dwelling, which cannot be borrowed or transferred. If all of that is true. Then how does that manifest in daily living? What does that look like? And then what does that lead to on the day of judgment? All of that is to come for us, but it actually starts in this verse here in verse 13, just with the simple, very direct, but e expressly articulated phrase, be watchful or be prepared. Maybe like a better incidentally, like contemporary treatment would be like, don't sleep on this. Like, I like the word sleep in that context. Yeah. Which of course, when somebody says that to you, they're not actually meaning like, don't fall asleep now. But make sure that you're paying attention to this thing. Get after this thing, go and grab this thing, get a hold of this very thing. Make it your priority. And I think really that is what is Christ is after here as he moves us from one example into another. That's almost, again, to me like the manifestation or the outworking 'cause because one might ask, and maybe this is like a good question, he was anticipating, you hear that story and we're just used to like things moving, or like you said, like discreet chunks of text, which we appropriate for ourselves. We take out, it's almost as they have little boxes on the shelf and we remove that box. We look at it, we study it, we turn over, we put it back, and it's a little compartment place. And instead you can imagine, uh, as I could, I think if you were hearing this in the context of conversation, of teaching in this way, that you might say like, so what? Like be prepared for what, how do we get prepared? What does preparedness look like? And so that's what's coming for us next.  [00:53:34] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And you know, the other thing I think that's, um, important for this parable, um, there are some places in the scripture in the, uh, in the gospels where Christ's teaching and nothing specific comes to mind. So this is. Hypothetical, but I know there are actual places. I just can't think of anything right off the top of my head. There are some places where sort of like discrete chunks of Christ's teaching are juxtaposed next to other discreet chunks. Sure. That's an editorial decision by the gospel author. Right. Matthew makes a decision to put this story next to this story, and we might see in Luke actually, it's slightly different. A good, a good example would be like in the temptation narratives, um, the order of the Temptations is different I think between Matthew and Luke. Right. And there's, there's an editorial decision that's made there and there's a theological reason. I don't know off the top of my head what it is. I'm sure I studied it in, you know, like gospels class in seminary. Um, that's not what's happening here, right? These are not two discreet chunks of text. That Matthew has decided to put together, right? Right. Christ is the one that says, watch therefore for you. Neither know the day nor the hour for it will be like a man going on a journey. Christ is the one who has decided, and this is one chunk of teaching. There's, um, like the Sermo

Do you market your practice for its dentistry? For its atmosphere? For the team? Something else? Tiff and Dana talk about why it's so critical to market the right aspect of your practice, and then following through on that aspect. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are back again. I've got Miss Dana here with me. We are busting out a few podcasts today and I love this so much. ⁓ I just love podcasting with you, Dana. It's easy, it's fun. We get on tangents sometimes and soap boxes and it's wonderful. And I hope everyone out there, all the listeners, love it as much as we do. Dana, how are you over there? I know we're hot and it's like...   I know, we probably have like 3 % humidity, but we're feeling it. But anyways, how's it going?   DAT-Dana (00:32) It's going good. It's going good. Today is a busy day, I feel like, you know, busy days help the day go by fast and helps me feel super productive. So I'm excited that podcasting with you gets to be a part of this busy day.   The Dental A Team (00:44) thank you. Thank you. I love the word productive that you slid that in there. I have been very well, I think I could be more intentional about it. I say very, but I think I've been slightly intentional about it because I was talking with gosh, my sister or somebody I don't know, but they were like, how come? it was my sister talking about hairdressers, hairdressers. love you, Christie. I love you. But sometimes it's like, my gosh, I come out more exhausted than when I went in. And it's confusing. And I thought to myself, I think   This is just me thinking out loud. told my sister, I think that when you're asked, how are you, our initial, nobody thinks what's the best thing that happened to me today that I can tell this person, right? Because we're like trying to hold back and we're like, I don't want to make you like, I'm having this amazing day. We're buying a house, like, but I don't want it like, I don't know where you're at in your life. So I don't want to overshare and be extra and make you feel bad about anything in your life. So when you ask me that question, I'm going to say, well, I'm busy, like,   life is busy. How are you? Because I want to gauge how you are before I'm excited about my life, which is really sad if you think about it. But I thought to myself, everyone who sits in a hairdresser's chair gets this she's like, what's the news? What's what's new? What's what's going on? What's the drama? And you sit there and you spew all of this busy and anything that's like, exciting because drama is like exciting. It gets you pumped up, right? And they're   DAT-Dana (02:00) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (02:11) their five people they hang out with the most are drama. So then I come in and it's like, my gosh, I'm so exhausted. So my point in that is my intentionality has been to try to be like, I'm I've been super productive lately. Because I'm always going to be busy. It's just life like you've got you've got a whole farm over there of animals and humans. Dana, I don't know if I'm the first person to tell you this.   But you're going to be busy for the next 10 years. You got 10 years left that you're going to be longer, but I'm going to give you 10. That's what I'm going to say today. You're going to be busy. So I've been trying to be like, I've been super productive. So when Erin's like, how was your day? I'm like, it was, it was good and it was productive. I don't know. It just feels better. Your words, words create your world. And I feel like it's so easy to just mute yourself and not celebrate.   DAT-Dana (02:41) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:08) in this kind of world where we're like, I want to engage where you're at first because I don't want to be too much.   DAT-Dana (03:14) Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And I think a part of it too is like I sit in the turn, I'm like, wow, like she talks to a lot of people, like, how can I wow her? Right? Like, or how can I be different? Right? I know she hears about a lot of people's kids and a lot of people's this and a lot of people's that. So like, where do I come in with like my uniqueness or like something that like, also will make her day a little bit like better because it was more interesting than all the like all the same conversation that she hears. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:20) Yeah. Yes.   Yes.   Yes.   Yeah, and I think it's every profession, you know, hairdressers are just like easy because you're stuck there. And I mean, you and I are stuck there for like three hours because I don't know why I'm a blonde highlight stick so long. And it's fine. Or like when you go get your nails done or coaching calls, you know, I'm like, Hey, how are you? And they're like, good, busy. I'm like, no, like, tell me about like, tell me about you. I want to hear about you. So like, we get the same   kind of response even, and hopefully people aren't walking away saying they're exhausted. Sometimes I think they probably are because I can be a lot, but you just let us know. You let us know what you need. But anyways, I think you made me think of that, the intentionality behind making sure that our words create the world that we live in. And I've been trying, if you guys remember the try, if you didn't see Summit or you weren't at our mastermind, you might not know, which means I haven't been very great at replacing busy.   with productive, but it's on my bucket list. That's my intentionality right now is to be productive. And I think that statement, just, you you say something and then my mind spins, but it really does relate to what we're talking about today because it's part of marketing. think I love marketing and people think it's wild. My fiance thinks I'm crazy. He's like, you're so weird that you love marketing. like, everything is marketing. How I present myself, how...   I hold myself, how tall I sit up, the words that I'm using. I'm constantly marketing to the people around me. I'm marketing to my friends. Was I a waste of your time today? Did I create value? Did I hold space for you? Was I intentional? Did I inspire you in some way? I'm constantly thinking of, gosh, how can I positively impact this person in front of me? And that is marketing. That's who I am to my core.   That's my culture. That's my, my mission. And to me, those are what create the marketing, right? We, we think Dana, marketing company and Google ads and Yelp, Brody has got his detailing business. He's like, is Yelp worth it? And I was like, well, you got to pay for it. Like we can go down to Yelp rabbit hole, but all you think of all these things and Facebook and meta ads and all these things are marketing a hundred percent. But in reality, we're constantly marketing to the people around us. Does you have   Bri, like tell me poke holes in that, Dana. I don't know. That's my mindset and people think I'm crazy for it.   DAT-Dana (05:58) No, I agree with you   100 % in that because I feel like at the end of the day, yes, you can do Google ads and you can do meta ads and you can have the best website and you can have SEO that is tractioning beyond belief, right? But then what are you marketing? And it is you, the experience, your team, yes, the dentistry, right? But they did a survey not that long ago. I wanna say like right post COVID and it was like, hey,   What are you looking for when you choose a dentist when you go back? And I still think that like this 100 % stands today. And that was like honestly and truly the quality of the dentistry that they received was well below on the list than where I anticipated it to be. And it was truly that white glove experience. And so I think that you're 100 % correct that yes, those things are great, but you won't get traction on those things if the experience   The Dental A Team (06:41) Yeah.   DAT-Dana (06:52) the personality, sometimes even too, just like the appearance of the office. When I walk in, do I feel calm and serene versus it looks like it's chaos here and it kind of gives me more anxiety? All of those things are marketing. And two, all of those things will drastically impact anything that you spend money on for marketing too.   The Dental A Team (07:16) I totally agree. Yes. And gosh, there's so many things. There's so many nuggets in there. I love it. I truly believe I tell, I tell doctors all the time and teams. I'm like, yeah, cool. You did an awesome filling. It was great by perfection. They didn't have to come back for an adjustment. Guess who doesn't know that some people have to come back for an adjustment. The patient that didn't have to come back for an adjustment. Guess who doesn't know that you picked the right shade of A2.   to match the filling so it doesn't look like they have a filling on tooth number two. The patient who has a filling on tooth number two, they can't see it, they don't know. It's like you can't even see tooth number two while you're filling it. You're like cranking your neck and your arms are all wild. Patients don't know what a good filling is. They know what a bad filling is, right? They know when it hurts, they know when their floss gets stuck, they know. But patients who aren't experiencing those things, to them it's everyday.   DAT-Dana (07:50) Now, you can rarely even see tooth number two.   The Dental A Team (08:12) normal life. They're just like, cool, thanks. Awesome. I'm good to go. They don't. He has like, we know we're like, heck yeah. Like I remember, I remember early in my dental days, this is slightly, this is really embarrassing. Actually, my doctor used to laugh so hard. And finally, he was like, Tiff, let me tell you what's supposed to be here. Because we would have our template for our notes, you know, I've never told this story. So so embarrassing now at 42. But when I was, know, 21, I had no idea what   DAT-Dana (08:16) You were a dentist today? Great!   The Dental A Team (08:42) was doing is just like write my notes and I'm like okay so I'd fill it in and then we do a written on I you know do the gutta percha length and I do all the all the different pieces and at the end it said like result I think is what it said like outcome result something right and so I'm like beautiful root canal because it was that was a beautiful root canal I like got a percha hit exactly where it was supposed to there was not   We didn't go past, we didn't perf, we didn't leave a gap. There was no, it was a beautiful root canal. And finally, he was like, while I appreciate the kudos, like, we just need to know like, it was a, like, it was done. Like, so he switched my words, right? But I was just like, ⁓ they don't know, I know, I can look at it and be like, dang, that was, that's a really good implant. That was perfect placement. That is an incredible implant. I can do that. You can do that.   the patient who got the implant is like, cool, I'm done. So I love that you said that because we're we so often market like best crowns in town, same day crowns, they don't patients who have never had a crown don't know that it doesn't get done in a day you you come in and you tell them, all right, it's gonna take two sessions. They're like, well, do I have to do that? Do I so same day crowns like people don't know. So when you're marketing for the dentistry, it's like cool.   DAT-Dana (09:35) Yeah.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (10:01) you might get some patience for that. But when you're marketing for the feeling and the experience, and then you deliver on that. And when we remember Dana that we're constantly marketing, this is where that like busy versus productive, like if you're my friend, Dana, you know, on the street and you come up and you're like, hey, how was your day? And I'm like, oh, it was super productive. You're like, awesome, what'd you do? What'd you get done? Right? And I'm like, well, I worked.   And I got a ton of coaching calls done and I felt really inspired at the end because I impacted so many people. Totally different than, ⁓ it was busy because it was, it was busy and it was exhausting and I'm tired at the end of my days. I am exhausted. I've given everything all day, but versus productive, because I was, I was productive. It's a totally different landscape. when we're like,   When we preach that we're going to give an experience, we're going to deliver an experience, and then we forget to deliver that experience when patients come. Like you said, like how does it look? You know, my doctor used to make us walk around from the patient's perspective and see is there trash on the floor? We'd sit in the chair and we'd see are there water spots on the lamp above us? Like what does the window look like? So when we're not aware of those pieces, patients can come in. They're seeing that, especially post-COVID. Like they're looking for the dirt. They're looking for the trash. And if we're not   If we're not delivering that, we're not, stopped marketing. We marketed to get the patient in the door and then we forgot that we're constantly marketing and the patients who are coming in are choosing us again. They can choose to go anywhere and they're choosing us again.   DAT-Dana (11:42) Yeah, I love that you pointed out just like I just want to caveat I know this is kind of taking us back to where we were but I think that it's super important in that you saying hey we saw each other on the street and you were like how are you and you said I'm super busy versus like I'm productive and I had this I think   on the other end, right? The feeling, which I think is what you're creating for patients, the feeling that I had for you is completely different. When you said, I'm super busy, I was like, I'm kind of bummed for her. Like, it doesn't feel like she's got any space for herself or like, that sounds like it was not a great day when she said busy. But when you said productive and impactful, and I got a lot of coaching calls done, that was like, my gosh, Tiff, I'm super happy for your day. Like, it sounds like a really great day, right? So I think that like that is...   The Dental A Team (12:21) Yep.   DAT-Dana (12:23) really and truly what we're trying to say in this podcast. is like the words, the things, images, everything that you create, right? That's what creates that experience or how the patient feels.   And I just thought it was important to kind of highlight that, all of them, when we say like everything is marketing, right? Well, everything that you do creates a feeling inside a patient. And that feeling is either, this is a great place to be. I feel super safe. I feel super relaxed. I feel super confident. I feel like I've got a lot of trust with them. I feel like they care about me, right? Those are the things. And so what we're trying to say is like marketing is, is everything that you do creates a feeling within a patient. And that is when you get raving fans.   That is when you get referrals and you don't even have to ask for them. Yes, asking for them is great, right? But when you look at marketing as the things that you do every day, how can you elevate them? How can you take them just one notch above where they are? How can you always look at it from a patient experience or a patient perspective? That is when you create the feelings that create raving fans.   The Dental A Team (13:29) Totally   agree. Thank you for pointing that out, Dana, because that is exactly what it is. It's a feeling. Brody, I say this all the time, but Brody gets frustrated with me. Not so much anymore. He's 17 and I've been doing it his whole life. So I think he's gotten over it. He's like, that's just my mom. But I always acknowledge the workers at any store, wherever we're at, if you've got a name tag on, I'm going to call you by your name. And when he was little, he'd be like,   You remember like seven to 11, like they're super judgmental people. That human hated me. Everything I did was wrong. But it was like questioning. It wasn't necessarily wrong. Don't take that. It was just questioning. It was just like, gosh, why do have to be so extra? And I'm like, because it wakes them up. It makes them feel seen in a sea of people just checking out and paying. Like, did you find everything you needed today? Yep. Yeah, I did. Otherwise I wouldn't be at checkout.   DAT-Dana (13:58) yeah.   The Dental A Team (14:21) I hate that you asked me that question, right? No, I didn't, but you're not going to go find it now. There's people behind me and I'm not going to ask you for it, right? So I'm like, you know what? Today was great. Joanna, how's your day going over there on the other side of this machine? And she's like, what? It snaps them out and allows them to be seen and valued in a sea of nothingness. And we as humans are constantly walking around like that.   We're driving, you know, we're not acknowledging each other. We barely even see each other when we're merging on the street. We're not paying attention to each other. We're lost in our own worlds. And when they can come to a place that sees them, that values them, that is intentional with their time with this patient, that's what they're gonna come back for. They could have to come back for adjustments on that filling or crown. Their implant could fail. I've had it. I have had implants fail and the guy...   I had to send this patient, I was like, my gosh, this is so bad. He had three implants fail. I remember this was gosh, probably 16 years ago at this point. He had three implants fail and I had to send him to the oral surgeon. And I was like, I am so sorry. Like I am so and he was like, please don't be you guys are wonderful. My family and I have been coming here for years and we would never consider going anywhere else. That's why I tried the implant here first. The impact that   the whole entire team, our practice had made on him and his family. I still have like, just, have his daughter on our, on my Instagram. Like she just had a baby and I was like, my gosh, like Bianca, this is amazing. She's the same age as my sister. Like this, this is what I'm talking about. And that's marketing. And I think Dana marketing is perceived as salesy. Like we were trying to sell somebody on something, but like I'm not, I'm just trying to impact your life.   DAT-Dana (16:11) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (16:11) I want   you to feel so good that you want to spend more time with me. And I want to invite you into my safety bubble where it's okay to be yourself, where it's okay to be excited about the accomplishments that you have because I had a productive day. I'm in a really good space and I loved it. So what's going well in your life? And you're so much quicker to be like, my gosh, that's awesome. Erin and I are buying a house. And you're like, ⁓ because I know you have.   the space for it, you know, that's my tangent. That's my marketing tangent. This is why I love marketing because it's so easy to just make one little switch in a word and completely change the outcome. And to me, that's marketing.   DAT-Dana (16:56) Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I think that like, it's just choosing to do that on an everyday space. think even like listening, we listen in, or we join a lot of marketing calls, right? And they're like, well, what makes you stand out? Right? And then they'll be like, I'm high tech. Okay, well, that's great. Does your patient know what high tech means? Do they know that that means you don't have to gag anymore, that you're super comfortable, that it's pain free, that it's less painful, that like we can relax.   The Dental A Team (17:10) Yes.   DAT-Dana (17:25) you and we can sedate you and we can do all these things. is that because you said high tech and I think to pretty much anybody that walks into a dental office or any medical office it's like they already feel like it's high tech. They're not questioning your tech really when they walk into your office. Those are the things I think that just gives like another layer an example of like truly knowing what sets you apart but knowing how to communicate what sets you apart.   knowing the things that the patient values when you say what sets you apart. Patients like they're just automatically going to assume their dentist has all the tech, right? Dentistry, healthcare, it's a tech place. So they're just going be like, yep, know my dentist has all that tech. But what they don't understand is the things that you have that makes the experience better for them, that makes the pain less for them, that makes recovery easier for them.   all those things. And so that is the marketing piece, taking the time to say those things, taking the time to show them, taking the time to explain, using them and letting them know, because we're using this, you should recover much quicker, right? You shouldn't have to go home and have any bleeding like as soon as you leave here, right? Even fluoride, right? As soon as you leave here, you can now eat those types of things. That's the marketing piece. That's the words. Those are the things that impact the patient.   The Dental A Team (18:39) Totally agree. And on that point, you mentioned the marketing companies and the marketing companies like what sets you apart vetting a great marketing company. And my opinion is like hiring someone on your team, right? Which it's easy for us to see that because we have marketing people. We don't, we have a marketing department. We didn't hire a marketing comp. We have hired marketing companies. Currently we don't have a marketing company working.   behind the scenes, have marketing people on our team. And so it's easy for us to see that and we help plenty of practices that marketing companies, which is, hard marketing companies marketing. It's a hard space because just like we just said, it's really about changing a dial a little bit and seeing what the result is. And then changing the dial a little bit and seeing what the result is. There's no like, this always works because it's different for everyone.   So marketing is difficult in that way, but when you've got your systems and processes in line at the office, you're inspired humans who are looking to impact more humans. It makes the marketing company's job so much easier because they're marketing you and the experience, not your tech, which nobody knows what a CBCC skit is. Like I barely know what it is, right? I can't read it. I've been in dentistry forever. I have no idea what I'm looking at.   Patients don't either, they just don't. And so when you're looking for a marketing company, really looking at it the same as you would hire a team member onto your team, what would you expect of that team member? How do they show up? What's their integrity level? Do they match your core values? Can they show up to live your core values and your vision? And then once you get your marketing manager, does that marketing manager jive with you? Are they relatable? Are they somebody who's listening to you? Would you hire that person?   to be on your team because I do think Dana, that is a huge piece of external marketing that we've never really considered before.   DAT-Dana (20:34) Yeah, I agree with you. think like...   test their response time with you, look at how they respond to you for things, look at how if you ask questions, do they truly answer them? Do they get to the bottom of it? Or do they even admit, hey, I don't know this, but let me figure it out. And then they do figure it out and they get back to you. Like all of those things that you would test in a working interview or you would ask on a phone interview, right? Oftentimes it's just like, hey, we get through your logistics. This is what we do. This is what we can offer you. Hey, say yes or no. And I think that it is okay. Marketing is a big investment. And you know, sometimes we pay   marketing companies as much as we pay team members, right? And so I agree with you, Tiff, in that like they are now a part of your team, whether it's external or internal, they're a part of it. And so do they live and breathe those things? Does the things that you're wanting to accomplish with them inspire them? Are they responding? Are they actively engaged in your account and come up with really great ideas?   The Dental A Team (21:32) I love that. Yeah, drop the mic. Those are what you need to write down if you're driving when you get to the office or when you get home or the hair salon, wherever you're headed to. ⁓ Rewind and write all those things down that Dana just said. That was incredible, Dana. Thank you. Yeah, I loved this. I think we went into this one like, okay, well, let's see where it takes us. And I think it went on a really fun journey. So Dana, thank you for always ⁓ tracking. you just, we are just like the same brain sometimes.   Same brain, but different, you see different aspects. So thank you for today's conversation. think it was really fun. And everyone, go about your marketing company. I think your action items are to take inventory and maybe even have your team take inventory of the experience that your patients are perceiving. So what's the perception that you're putting out to your patients? Is it in line with your vision, mission, core values? Is it in line with what you want it to be? And then check your marketing, your true marketing.   DAT-Dana (22:06) Yeah, thanks.   The Dental A Team (22:30) Are you talking about same day crowns? Are you talking about we can save you time? Because saving me time is a bigger ask than a same day crown, especially if I don't need a crown, by the way. So go check your marketing. Does it make sense? Does it speak to the patient experience? And can you deliver the patient experience that you're speaking to? You guys, this was really fun. I hope you loved it. I know you did. I know you loved it, because these ones are really fun. When we get ramped up, these are the ones that impact the most. So leave us a five star review.   Let us know your biggest takeaways. We'd love to hear it. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. you need help, if you want Dana's questions, rewind. We're not going to remember what she said unless we rewind. So go rewind, get all of the things and we will catch you next time. Thanks so much, guys.  

Credit: Jasper Savage/Prime. Copyright: © Amazon Content Services LLC. Description: Karl Urban (Billy Butcher) Seven years of blood, corporate satire, and unhinged superhero mayhem have all come down to this. Cat and Paul are back for the ultimate deep-dive into the series finale of The Boys, Season 5, Episode 8: “Blood and Bone.” The show completely threw out the comic books and gave us a beautifully tragic, poetic, and utterly jaw-dropping final hour. We are breaking down every single massive payoff: The Undercard Chaos: We kick things off with the emotional whiplash of Frenchie’s wild last will and testament, followed by Kimiko blasting Sister Sage into a permanent, Orlando-bound “dimwit”. Plus, we celebrate the absolute poetic justice of MM weaponizing a BDSM ball gag against Oh Father and Starlight feeding The Deep to an octopus bent on avenging Ambrosius. The Oval Office Execution: Homelander's “Messiah” tour comes to a pathetic, weeping halt. We dissect the incredible moment Kimiko depowers him and Butcher delivers the ultimate closure—using a bloody crowbar to end the god-king on live television, echoing the very first supe encounter from the pilot. The Final Stand: The real tragedy wasn’t Homelander; it was the final confrontation between Hughie and a deeply broken Butcher over a global virus threat. We break down Hughie’s devastating choice to pull the trigger to save the world, proving that it really does just hurt to be human. The Bittersweet Epilogue: From MM taking in Ryan to Kimiko's healing trip to France, we unpack where the survivors land. Most importantly, we dive into the beautiful full-circle pilot echoes of Hughie and Annie running a quiet A/V store, waiting on a baby girl named Robin, while “Piano Man” brings the curtain down. The Ultimate Question: In the end, did the show argue that Butcher was just as dangerous as Homelander, or did Hughie's final act break the cycle of violence for good? Listen to our final, emotional breakdown with Cat and Paul on all podcast platforms now! #TheBoys #TheBoysFinale #EscapingGilead #Homelander #BillyButcher #Starlight #Hughie #PodcastLife #SeriesFinale MORE IN THIS SERIES Season 5 1+2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 Season 4 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Season 3 1+2+3 Pt 1 | 1+2+3 Pt 2 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Season 2 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 Follow the show PRIME VIDEO | FACEBOOK | Twitter Follow the Hosts PAUL | CAT This podcast was recorded in Pod Clubhouse Studios and edited by Paul Daley.

Most owner-led agencies know they should be doing more than media relations. One barrier has always been capability: you can’t execute paid media if nobody on your team knows paid media. AI is removing that barrier, and Chip and Gini dig into exactly how. Gini built a PESO model operating system AI that prompts you instead of you prompting it. Many agencies are strong in one or two media types and need scaffolding to think through the rest. The tool can be used to help agencies execute unfamiliar disciplines step by step. Chip frames this as an opportunity to do things that were theoretically possible two years ago but practically out of reach. A paid campaign to amplify a blog post no longer requires hiring a specialist. Beyond drafting, both hosts made a case for AI as a learning tool instead of merely a content machine. Gini tested this directly by vibe-coding a PESO model diagnostic, working through multiple versions with AI troubleshooting each step. The practical upshot is that you can use AI to build separate knowledge-rich agents for each media type, loaded with client messaging and context, and treat them as thought partners for areas where your team lacks depth. It won’t eliminate the need for people or strategic thinking, but capability is no longer a credible excuse for staying stuck at one letter of PESO. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “AI is a great opportunity for all of the things that you wished you could have done two years ago that now become much more feasible for you to do without having to go out and bring in-house new expertise.” Gini Dietrich: “I have built my entire organization using agents. It doesn’t replace anybody. I still need people to do the work, and I still need people to do the strategic thinking, and I still need people to service the client work. It makes us smarter, it makes us faster, it makes us more productive, but it doesn’t replace anyone.” Chip Griffin: “It doesn’t have to do it for you, it can help educate you… You can make it tell you at whatever level of knowledge you need in order to become comfortable with it, and then you actually start to learn it.” Gini Dietrich: “If you don’t have shared or owned and paid expertise internally, you can use those agents to help you build those things.” Related The PESO Model evolves for the AI era (and why your website isn't dead) Has the PESO Model become a necessity for modern agencies? Agencies need the PESO model now more than ever How to allocate your client's PESO budget View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I think we’re gonna let AI do our jobs today. I know we don’t ever talk about AI on this show. Gini Dietrich: We don’t. We don’t like it at all. Chip Griffin: But I think AI is gonna let us do so much more here. Awesome. Maybe even, maybe we can even implement the PESO model as part of the show. Gini Dietrich: Beautiful. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: I’ve, I’ve heard that the PESO model is something that’s really important that we should- … we should focus on. So why not let AI help us with it? Gini Dietrich: Oh, I love it. Maybe we could use NotebookLM and have it create its, our voices too. We’ll just be done. We don’t have to do anything. Chip Griffin: That’s a great idea. Gini Dietrich: Yeah, let’s do it. Chip Griffin: So then, you and I could just connect and just do our gossiping and chit-chat. Gini Dietrich: Right. Yes. Chip Griffin: And we’d still get an episode even without having to take the time to record. Gini Dietrich: Yes. I like it. Let’s do it. Chip Griffin: I like it. I like that. That would be- That would be fun. Gini Dietrich: We don’t gossip. What do you mean? Chip Griffin: Gossip, talk about world events. Whatever, however you want. I mean- Gini Dietrich: Yes. It’s kind of good that those aren’t recorded. Ah. Chip Griffin: It is. I suspect we would get a lot of listeners, but we’d lose a lot at the same time, so. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Chip Griffin: In any event, we are going to talk about AI again because it is top of mind for all of us, and so we all ought to be thinking about it. And we are gonna talk about the PESO model because we just happen to have somebody here who knows a little bit about the PESO model. So let me explain it to you… Oh, no, I didn’t. Oh. I wasn’t talking about me. With the founder of the PESO model as one of the co-hosts. It, we’ve talked about the PESO model before, but I think, you know, one of the things that, that has occurred to me in recent times, and I’m sure it has occurred to you as well, is that AI can help more PR agencies go deeper into the PESO model, particularly in areas where they maybe don’t have as much in-house expertise. And, and one- Yep … of the things we’ve talked about with agencies a lot is that the PESO model touches a lot of different things, and it’s difficult for any small agency to have all of the skillsets needed to fully execute PESO properly. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Yeah. Chip Griffin: AI seems to open the door to more of that. Gini Dietrich: For sure, it does. One of the things that we did late last year is I built a PESO operating system AI. And instead of you prompting it, it prompts you. So it’s built to do exactly that, so that you can say, “Okay, well, we’re really good at media relations, but we don’t have any expertise in shared, owned, or paid,” or, “We’re really great at owned and shared, but we don’t have any expertise in earned and paid.” Whatever it happens to be, right? And so it will h- it will prompt you with questions to help you think through, “Okay, if we’re great at owned and shared, but we don’t have the E and the P, here are the things you need to be thinking about.” And it will help you either figure out how to execute it on your own with step-by-step instructions, or it will give you a creative brief that then you could hand off to a partner. So it, it’s built to do that, but the point is, is that- I mean, would I prefer you use the PESO OS AI that I built? For sure, but really any AI could do that. I think if you,you have to prompt it. It’s not gonna prompt you. But I think any AI based on information that’s out there in the, on the web that we’ve created around PESO, it will be able to take all of that and say, “Here are some things you should be thinking about.” And I think it’s really good at helping you think through things that you’re just not an expert at. And it’s really good at helping you think through, gosh, we should be using paid to amplify our content, for instance, but I don’t have any idea. Do– should I do it on LinkedIn? Should I do it on Instagram? Should I do it on TikTok? Should I do it on Google? Like, I have no idea. So AI is a really good thought partner from that perspective. Chip Griffin: Well, and I think that’s the, that’s the key point is that it allows you to, certainly you can look at it in, at a 30,000-foot level, you know, with your specialized OS that allows you to really think the whole big picture through. Yep. But you can also use it in a very granular way to say “Hey, look, I know I want to amplify this content. Let’s, let’s look at the various ways that we can do it, and help educate me about how we do that most effectively.” Yep. And, you know, to me, AI is a great opportunity for all of the things that you wished you could have done two years ago Gini Dietrich: Yeah Chip Griffin: That now become much more feasible for you to do without having to go out and bring in-house new expertise, or hiring someone if it’s, particularly when it’s focused, right? If it, it really is just, “I need a paid campaign to amplify this blog post.” That is a whole lot easier to do with AI, frankly, than it is to go hire somebody in-house- Yeah … and a lot cheaper. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely, yes. And it will give you the step-by, literal step-by-step instructions if you wanna do it yourself. Right. And if you don’t wanna do it yourself, you say, “Help me create a project brief or a creative brief that will, that I can hand off to a partner,” and it does that for you too. So one of the things that we do is, you know, I have a paid media expert in, on our marketing team, but then we hire out, depending on what we need, we’ll hire out sort of the day-to-day minutia piece of it. ‘Cause, you know, especially in paid media, you have to be in there every day and testing and tweaking and all that kind of stuff. And AI’s great at saying, “Eh, pay attention to this,” but not great at actually pushing the buttons. And so it has helped our paid media team even just outsource some of that stuff too. So it’s, I think it’s really great from that perspective. You know, it’s still, you, like, I think some, especially PR professionals, are using it for, like, list development and media pitching and things like that, which is fine, but it’s still not… it’s still a good first draft. You still have to add your personalization. You still have to do those kinds of things. One of the things that we were kind of struggling with, actually not struggling with, we were arguing over internally, was our outbound sales campaigns and what those said. And I felt like they were way too long. Our chief revenue officer felt like the calls to action weren’t right, and so we put it into AI, and we were like, “This is where we’re struggling. We’re not agreeing on these five points.” And it pumped out some stuff that we were like Okay, that’s– I– All right, let’s try that. So, you know, I don’t know yet if it’s gonna work ’cause we haven’t launched it, but it helped us think about things a little bit differently than we had just the three of us shooting the shit around a Zoom conversation. Chip Griffin: Well, and to your point, it’s a great jumping-off point. It’s not necessarily a final draft of everything, but, I mean, let’s say you, you know, you’re– you don’t consider your team very adept at creating social posts on their own, but you want to use PESO to amplify content. You can take that piece of content and say, you know, “Give me three to five drafts that I can look at.” Yep, yep. And you can pick the one that, that resonates most with you, and then, you know, hone that and use that as your post. So again, it just, it allows you to do things that either would’ve taken much longer a number of years ago or just you wouldn’t have been able to do without hiring someone new in-house or that sort of thing. And so having those opportunities means that you can adopt a lot more of the PESO model as an agency, which certainly benefits your clients, but it benefits your business as well. Because as we’ve talked about, pure PR agencies, despite the renaissance of the importance of earned media as a result of LLMs and all of that, you know, you still, I still think it is very difficult to have a media relations only agency in 2026. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: It’s not impossible. There are certain niches where it works and certain setups that work, but for the vast majority of old time traditional PR agencies, they need to be getting into more of the PESO model, even if it’s not all four letters. Even if you get into two of the letters- Gini Dietrich: Yeah Chip Griffin: that’s gonna help you a lot. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Yeah, for sure. And it does– definitely helps you, like I think I’ve mentioned before that I have several different agents, AI agents, and one is my co-CEO, and my co-CEO, like, it will argue with me, and it will tell me, like last week it said, “That’s a stupid idea.” And I was like, “Ah, well, screw you, too.” But it helps you think through those things. So you say, “Okay, what if I want to build an agency that is focused around the PESO model, and I’m gonna go through the certification so that I can create an agency that’s focused on it. What am I missing? What do I need to hire for? What can I use you, my AI, for? What can I…” Like it helps you think through all of those things. “Help me build a plan to be able to do this over the next two years. I want to create some intellectual property based on what you know about me and how I’ve used you in the past. What is some intellectual property that we might be able to create as an agency?” It can help you with all sorts of things. Chip Griffin: It can, and it, it also, you can calibrate it to your own knowledge level or your team’s knowledge level, so you can have it just help you with some, some drafts. You can have it just teach you how to do things. Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: And I think that’s an often overlooked use of AI. Yes. Absolutely. It doesn’t have to do it for you, it can help educate you. Yep. And part of that is just communicating with it and say, “Treat me like I’m an absolute idiot.” Gini Dietrich: Yep. Chip Griffin: “And give me out- actual step-by-step instructions. Assume I don’t even know how to click the mouse. Like, tell me to put downward pressure on the button in the middle of the…” Like, you can make it tell you at whatever level of knowledge you need in order to become comfortable with it, and then you actually start to learn it. I mean, I think we, we all think of AI as something that, that’s, you know, can just replace us, but it can also help us learn so that we develop our own skills, and maybe we don’t need the AI for what we need it for today, but instead we can use AI to take us to the next level because we’ve already built in that knowledge from having worked with AI previously. It should be viewed as a growth opportunity, not as just, you know, the lazy way out. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I, absolutely. I love that because, you know, I kept hearing about this vibe coding thing, and everybody was talking about vibe coding. I was like, “Okay, I wanna try vibe coding. What do I want to vibe code?” And so I actually asked my AI boyfriend, “If you were me, what are some things you would vibe code just to test it out?” And it said, “You should do a PESO model diagnostic so that people understand where they sit on the PESO model maturity ladder.” And I was like, “Okay.” So I went into lovable.ai, and I built a PESO model visibility assessment is what I built first, and it was a really good first draft. And then I went through it and I had some friends take it, and I had my team go through it and got all of that feedback, and then I built the PESO model diagnostic from there. So it probably took– I probably had five or six versions before I was ready to take it public. Then I was like, Okay, now I have to figure out how somebody gets their results, and then how do I attach it to ActiveCampaign, which is our software, our email software, so that they can have their results emailed to them? It’s a little bit harder than it sounds. Chip Griffin: I, I think that’s, that’s part of the thing with vibe coding. People- Gini Dietrich: It’s absolute, yeah, a little bit harder. Yeah. But it did exactly what you said. Yeah. I was like, “I am lost.” Yeah. And I actually said, “I think this is above my pay grade.” And, and it said, “Okay, let me help you.” And so it broke it down step by step by step. We finally got it figured out, but then it wasn’t, it was doing everything that we needed it to do, but it wasn’t emailing. So I had all the tokens in the email, so like, “Hi, first name, here’s your…” Like, I had all those tokens, but it wasn’t triggering that. And so it helped me figure out, it like, it helped me troubleshoot and figure out why. And I, there’s no way on earth, not in a zillion years, I could have done that on my own two years ago. Absolutely not. Chip Griffin: Yep. And it really, it really is amazing how it can help you with some of those things. Now, it can also send you down some rabbit holes that are- Gini Dietrich: Yes, it did that too … Chip Griffin: not the right ones, and, and then- Gini Dietrich: Correct. I was like, “No, that’s not right.” Chip Griffin: And then it says, “Oops. Yeah, sorry. That’s, I, I didn’t mean to do… You’re right- Yep, you’re right. Mm-hmm … that I should’ve gone a different direction.” Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Yes, it does do that. Chip Griffin: And so, you know, that is always one of the challenges of vibe coding, is it opens a lot of doors, but it can lead to a lot of frustration, and you have to be ready to handle that. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: And particularly for someone like you, who has not been steeped in development in the past. Gini Dietrich: At all. Chip Griffin: You know, it probably takes more effort to get past that frustration than- Yeah … say, for someone like me, where I can spot early on that it’s going in the wrong direction, ’cause I’ve written code, and I’d be like- “Mm, I don’t- That does seem wrong, too … I don’t know if we really wanna do that.” Yeah. Yeah. And, but, but you can also ask it a lot of questions, and part- you know, I use Claude Code personally, and so, you know, it will often give options, or you can ask for options and say, you know, “Let’s go through the pros and cons of these different paths that we can do before we build out a whole product around something that we’re like, ‘Eh, that’s not gonna work.'” Gini Dietrich: Yep, yep. Chip Griffin: And you can think them through. You can think through what, what are the maintenance costs? What are the actual hard costs of it? Yep. And there are times where the tools will suggest something to you that, that costs something, and they’ll, it, it’s sort of like, you know, Waze. Waze sometimes likes to avoid tolls. I’m like, “Don’t, I don’t wanna avoid a toll. I wanna get there faster.” Gini Dietrich: I wanna get there faster, right. Chip Griffin: Like, to, to me, I don’t- Gini Dietrich: Yeah … Chip Griffin: don’t put me on all these weird side streets so I don’t pay a toll. Same thing with these tools. They often default to the free option, and sometimes you’re like, “Well, I’m willing to pay $5 a month to get this email sent to me correctly, and, and not have to, like- Right … go down to the command line and configure- Yeah … all this stuff. Yes. And then my computer’s always gotta be on, and all that kind of stuff. So, but the, the point is that that a lot of these tools open up the doors for the things that you can do, which then, again, expands that capability so that you are moving beyond just being one of the four letters and moving into at least two, if not all four, of PESO. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I would say also that if you, if you want to do this, it’s not a small undertaking, but if you want to do this, you can, there are lots of ways that you can do this, but I’ll make it super, super simple. Using Claude, you can create projects. And the projects can be focused on, okay, we’re gonna have one for earned, we’re gonna have one for paid, we’re gonna have one for shared, we’re gonna have one for owned. And in those specific projects, you build files, knowledge files that teach it what you wanna do from an earned media perspective. These are our clients. This is what we talk about. These are their messaging. Like all– Here’s our media list. All that kind of stuff goes into the knowledge files. You give it some instructions, and then it becomes your earned media thought partner, or same with your other media types. So if you don’t have, you know, shared or owned and paid expertise internally, you can use those agents to help you build those things. I will say, though, that, you know, people keep talking about how AI is going to replace us, and I have gone way down the rabbit hole from an agent perspective, and I have built my entire organization using agents. It doesn’t replace anybody. I still need people to do the work, and I still need people to do the strategic thinking, and I still need people to service the client work. Like, it makes us smarter, it makes us faster, it makes us more productive, but it doesn’t replace anyone. And so I say that because I want you– I don’t want you to be afraid of, oh my gosh, if we use this and we use this, I use it to help me think through the other media types that we aren’t doing, that it’s going to replace us, or the clients aren’t gonna wanna work with us. That’s not the case at all, at least not in my experience. So I would say test it out, play with it, get really good at it, because it will help you achieve some of the goals that you want to achieve a lot faster than you can do it on your own. Chip Griffin: Oh, absolutely. And, and it doesn’t even require you to know even the general direction. You can simply go in there and say, “Hey, look, you know, I’ve got this blog post. It’s not getting much traction, but I feel like it should. Help me to understand why it’s not.” And, and- Yep … so it’ll help, it’ll analyze the structure and content and maybe make some suggestions there. But then in the conversation you can say, “Well, you know, it doesn’t seem to be generating much in the way of inbound traffic from social. Help me think that through. How can I do that better or differently?” And it, it allows you to do a lot more, and I think particularly for those agencies who are doing any form of video, AI can be a really good tool for helping you to expand the use of that video into other things, right? I mean, the obvious that we’ve had for years is the automatic transcription, right? So you start from a point of you’ve got a transcription and so you’ve got, you know, more content that’s out there that’s more easily indexable by more tools. You know, some of the LLMs, you know, quote-unquote “watch video,” some only can use transcripts, so you wanna give both ideally. Yep. But you can go well beyond that. I mean, a lot of people are just kind of slapping stuff up on YouTube without any kind of a good description if they’re doing video. Use AI. Let it, let it give you a quick first draft and you can do that correctly. Let it start drafting social posts so you can get it out there. Make sure that you’re turning every video into a blog post. There are so many things that you can do from that one nugget. It’s one of the reasons why I love video so much, is because it can spiral out into these other formats so easily. But all of that then helps to fuel your efforts on the PESO model, and all of it can be done in an organization without all of the things that you would have needed five or 10 years ago. You don’t need a dedicated video producer or a high-end external video, you can use something like we’re using right here today with Riverside, where you can just- free plug there. We’re not, we’re not sponsored by them, but- … you know, we, we use it, and it, it does a nice job of cutting this up. If you’re watching this on YouTube, it switches camera angles. I don’t do anything except click a little button that says, “Do this,” and I get to choose how aggressive the, the camera switching is. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: That’s fantastic, right? But it will also then clip things that you can use for social media. And if I’m a traditional PR agency, I don’t know anything about any of that kind of stuff, but it’s all valuable to furthering the PESO model for my clients. So why wouldn’t I be taking advantage of AI to help me go down that path? Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I would say if you are a traditional PR agency, even things like, “This pitch isn’t landing. Tell me what you think.” Sure. “How would I… Like, I’m trying to reach this, this, and this reporter with this pitch. Analyze it for me.” Like, that kind of stuff you should be doing every single day. Chip Griffin: Right, ’cause the PESO model isn’t just about ticking boxes. It’s about doing all those things well, right? Gini Dietrich: Right. Chip Griffin: You, you can have a nice little report card that says, “Check. I did the P. I did the E. I did the S. I did the O.” But are you doing all of those well? And, and- Right … maybe even what your agency is, is built around, whichever letter is the core of your personal expertise, there are certainly ways that you can use AI to improve even on that- Absolutely … even before you go down the other  avenues. Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. Yeah. And one of the things that we’ve been, you know, when we, we evolved the model for AI into an operating system, and that is because all of the media types build on one another, right? So it will help you figure that out. So I can say PESO model’s now an operating system, and I’m sure you’re like, “I don’t know what the freak that means.” And it, it will help you figure out what that means and how you can apply that to your business. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, operating system may be one of the most overused product descriptions these days, but- Gini Dietrich: It works in an enterprise. Chip Griffin: everybody’s got an operating… you know, you read anything AI-related, everybody’s got an operating system. Gini Dietrich: Works in an, in an enterprise really well. Chip Griffin: It, it … Oh, I mean, I, I’m not arguing that. It’s just, it’s kind of, it, it’s kind of like 30 years ago where everybody used the word paradigm. Gini Dietrich: Oh, fair. Chip Griffin: Like, okay. Gini Dietrich: Really? PESO model paradigm. Chip Griffin: I gotta, gotta hear about- There, I like that. That’s nice … OS again. Ugh. Ugh. Of course- Ooh … I’m old enough to remember actual OSs back in the day. You know. MS-DOS, for example. Way, way long time ago. Gini Dietrich: That’s right. Chip Griffin: On that note, before I go down memory lane and really bore everybody, we’ll wrap this episode up. But use the PESO model, and use the AI to help you get there more effectively- Yes … faster. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Yes. Chip Griffin: Grow your business, help your clients. Gini Dietrich: Yes. Make lots of money. Chip Griffin: Make lots of money. On that note, I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And it depends.

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight's APEX Express show is focused on food justice and Asian America. First, Host Miko Lee talks with artist Macy Tran about their work on food as a form of resistance, and then she speaks with researcher Dr. Milkie Vu around her work on food insecurity and Asian American communities.   Show TRANSCRIPT [00:00:00] Opening: Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   [00:00:30] Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. I'm your host, Miko Lee, and tonight we're talking about food justice and Asian America. First, we talk with artist Macy Tran about their work on food as a form of resistance, and then we speak with researcher Dr. Milkie Vu around her work on food insecurity and Asian American communities. Join us tonight as we delve into food justice. Welcome to Apex Express, Macy Tran, I'm so happy to meet you.    [00:01:03] Macy Tran: I'm happy to meet you as well, Miko. Thanks for having me.   [00:01:06] Miko Lee: I just wanna start with the question I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?    [00:01:13] Macy Tran: I come from a legacy of powerful Vietnamese people who were born and raised in Vietnam and now are part of the diaspora in Minnesota. I come from food peoples and healers and chefs and creatives of all sorts who have learned how to make ends meet and to adapt and to work with what they have. I come from a long line of people who have loved through food and who have used food as a means of cultural preservation and education and survival, which has now been passed on to me. There's so much to say about who I come from. My grandparents have stories of survival and resilience throughout the American War in Vietnam. And it's only because of just their love and the decisions they've made on behalf of their love that I am here today. My parents own a restaurant in Minneapolis, Minnesota, Vietnamese restaurant called Pho 79/Caravelle That has a 40 plus year legacy of serving Chinese and Vietnamese food to the Minneapolis community. It started with my grandma's brother, and then it passed down to my grandma. And now my grandma has since passed and has passed it down to my father and my mother. And so I like to say that it's restaurant people who raised me. I grew up sleeping in the booths and all of the aunties, even though they weren't blood aunties were my aunties. Because our survival was just so foundationally just predicated on food and what we served and shared with others, and also what we ate at home and the celebrations that we would have both at the restaurant and at home. This is really what makes me.    [00:03:20] Miko Lee: Thank you for sharing. Do you wanna talk more about the legacy part?   [00:03:24] Macy Tran: I carry a legacy of peoples who really know the importance of food and the way we use food to care and support each other. Even in the most hard of times when my family was. On a boat with 200 other people and didn't know if they were going to survive when they kind of landed abroad. The shores of Indonesia, food has been with them throughout it all, and it is how I was raised to love and care for people. I see the ways that food is not just a means for sustenance, but also as joy, as creativity, as love, and I carry all of those, decisions and skills with me.    [00:04:19] Miko Lee: Thank you so much. I learned first about your book when I read a piece that you wrote for 18 million Rising, and I'm wondering if you could just talk about how that piece around food as a form of resistance, how did that come about?   [00:04:33] Macy Tran: I have a friend who works with 18 million Rising, and since the federal occupation in Minneapolis, I've been doing a lot of food justice organizing here. And it has been a way in which I have seen and expressed just the skills and love that I give to my community. I was just feeling compelled to give food. That was what I knew. In the past two months as my friends have been going out on the streets following ICE agents around legally observing, I have felt that my role in this movement is to feed frontline folks who are out doing the work and also feeding our community during a time in which it's very scary and difficult to leave your home without fear of being abducted. In Minneapolis we have created systems of, food resource sharing that have been really powerful to witness and experience and to get engaged with. And so one way that I've been doing it is I've been cooking community meals most Sundays, sometimes Saturdays that feed 200 plus people.   [00:05:47] I am providing delicious food for my friends who are out on the streets and coming home and hungry and cold. And I also helped facilitate and organize a food distribution at my parents' restaurant after the murder of Alex Preti I really wanted to not just be involved in like acting and responding to what was happening but as an artist, as a creative, I felt the need for also remembering and preserving and reflecting about what's been going on in Minneapolis. I kept being pulled in all these different directions and was organizing over here and supporting this community and doing this. And then when my friend reached out to me at 18 million Rising,. It was such a great opportunity for me to really reflect on my practice of food as resistance and food as justice. I've been a food writer in the Twin Cities for about the past three years. Food, events, I mostly cover restaurant stories and festivals and theater and all that sort of stuff in the BIPOC community here in the Twin Cities. And I realized writing this piece that this was the first time in a while, that I had written something actually for myself from my heart that was in my voice. Without an editor saying, no, you have to say it this way. No, we have to cut that part out. No, you use too many words here, and so I really took this piece as an opportunity to share what my life was like here in my own words and my own experiences. And just use it as a moment to really reflect and share the things that I'm learning and the way that I am practicing and using food as a bridge to healing and transformation during this time in which we are ripe for needing that.   [00:07:47] Miko Lee: Can you roll back a little bit and talk to me about how you got started as an organizer? What, when you first learned about social justice work and what pulled you in?   [00:07:56] Macy Tran: It definitely wasn't the way that I was raised. I was born in the us my parents were born in Vietnam and then came over to the US and they really raised me with the mentality of you just put your head down and you work hard and you don't really get involved. And like, yeah, you care for others, but mostly you care for your family. I was actually someone who was always butting heads with my family because I was like, do you not see all of these issues that are happening in the world? Like the issue, the systems that were implicated in. We have to care beyond just ourselves, and we would always butt heads about that.   [00:08:33] Miko Lee: At what age did that start?    [00:08:35] Macy Tran: Oh, probably when I was a teenager. around that time I was finding my voice. and it wasn't until college that I really started putting words and frameworks and theory into what I have already witnessed in my family and my community, which is just community care and the ways that facilitates justice and transformation I would say since college that I really started actively organizing primarily on campus. I went to a smaller liberal arts school. So organizing and just getting involved in our community in that way was pretty easy. And like after I graduated college, I spent five years in Southeast Asia, one year in Vietnam, and then four years in Thailand where I was primarily working at the intersections of education and refugee justice and environmental justice. I got to meet all sorts of organizers and activists from across the region who have taught me. Really everything, a lot of what I know about organizing and what it means to show up specifically within a Southeast Asian context and how to use kind of my feet in both worlds, both my American political identity and my Southeast Asian political identity.   [00:09:59] And to merge those for the better and for my community. So I would say that. I've always had a big heart ever since I was little. And actually my parents were always like, you are too trusting. You people are gonna take advantage of you in the world. And I was like, I just wanna live in this world with so much love. And the way that they taught me to do that was. Through food and through reliability and just what it means to show up consistently for my people. And so in some ways it was all baked into me, even though they might not see that and they might not have raised me in that way. I see the ways in which they have sacrificed for love and nourished their families through food and made incredibly scary risks for the freedom of their family and for their people, and for a new life. And I just feel like I'm walking in their footsteps, doing the same even if they might not feel that way.    [00:11:09] Miko Lee: So did you have to talk your family and the restaurant into getting involved in the food support work for activists in Minnesota?   [00:11:18] Macy Tran: it wasn't a challenging conversation to have and I was surprised by that.    [00:11:22] Miko Lee: Oh, great.    [00:11:23] Macy Tran: Um, yeah, my parents have been, actually, this is the most politically active and vocal I have seen them. It's really incredible. I would say that for a lot of actually the Vietnamese community that I've been witnessing in Minneapolis, like they're saying things that I never thought that they would say. They're putting analysis like what together? The Vietnamese community is, I would say, skews at least the older generation, I should say. The older generation of Viet folks skews pretty right wing, conservative Republican, Trump supporting. And I'm just seeing dissent for the first time. It's not always like that explicit, but it is, I would say in the past what I've seen is just like. When kind of rightwing or more Republican opinions come up, if people disagree with that, it's just like you're just quiet. But now I'm seeing a way in which like people are responding, commenting on social media, like posting publicly about it. It's just been really, really powerful. When I first started organizing in response to the federal occupation, my parents were really quite worried and they did not want me to get involved. And they didn't really understand why I felt compelled to do this. And then when Alex Prety was murdered, I. It was actually my auntie, my mom's youngest sister that brought up the idea of a food distribution because she was feeling like I just wanna do something and like, what is an avenue in which we can do something? Well, we have this restaurant. Mm-hmm. And so she proposed it to my parents first, which Oh    [00:13:05] Miko Lee: wow.   [00:13:06] Macy Tran: Love, shout out to her because    [00:13:09] Miko Lee: Thank you, auntie.    [00:13:10] Macy Tran: She did right. She did the hard work for me. I think I would've been a little more hesitant or would've taken a little bit more time to just process, like how to go about asking them, because there's just a different power dynamic there. Sure. But because my auntie is more of a peer mm-hmm. And she had this idea and she has also worked at the restaurant mm-hmm. For many, many years of her life. I think it really spoke to my parents and I think it really was a moment for them to connect the ways that this restaurant is so important to not only our family and how we show up in community, but also to our community in Minneapolis. Mm-hmm. I have traveled all across the world and have met people who have eaten at Pho 79 and have told me stories of getting engaged there, of getting a tattoo of the, like restaurant on their, on their arm. The, the logo. Yeah, the logo. It's crazy, you know, like people, and I've also heard generations of families like growing up on my parents' food. Mm-hmm. As we share food with people and they support our business, it's only because of our community that we've been able to survive this far you know?. My parents came to Minnesota with nothing, and it's only because of the kindness of other Minnesotans and other Vietnamese Minnesotans that we were able to get anywhere.   [00:14:35] In this moment they saw that and they saw that. We can, we have these resources. This won't be hard for us. We have everything here that we need. This is the channel in which we can work in. And yeah, they were just ready to do it. I think also my parents were ready to take a risk because the business was not doing well, we weren't, there were not people coming out to eat. Everyone was scared to go out to eat. People were not really spending money. And this was really ever since the pandemic and the way that has impacted the restaurant industry and particularly immigrant businesses, and then also the George Floyd uprisings and the way that just the, violence and also the transformation that happened to the street that we were on Eat Street. It just really changed the ways people saw that corridor, that business corridor. And it was a really big business impact. And so my dad was just, I think, in a place where he was really willing to take a risk and a stand for what he believed in. And my mom as well. As a way to also just like. Really be present in community and show that, hey, like we are out here and we believe in loving our community and seeing the ways that people are showing up for our community as and for our business as well. And honestly, since the food distribution business has been steady and I think. My parents are, I mean, they're definitely feeling relieved, but I'm just feeling so grateful that they stood on their values, you know, and they stood grounded in that. And as a result, like the community is reciprocating. and that is such a beautiful thing that I don't, I think my dad took a risk not knowing what would happen, because more exposure is not always good. And I've been telling him that, you know, especially with the Vietnamese community being, of, of his genera generation being more right wing and more conservative. He recognizes that and he recognizes that we had to do something. So I feel so proud of them for just being really chill and okay, and actually impassioned and compelled to do something.   [00:16:57] Miko Lee: It sounds like it brought you a little bit closer with your family too.    [00:17:00] Macy Tran: Definitely. Definitely did. Yeah. I feel like me and my family have never really been able to sit at a table and talk about politics and what's going on in the world without one of us just like getting activated or feeling defensive or not seeing each other. It is a terrible thing what has happened and what continues to happen in our city, under federal occupation and so much beauty and creativity and love has come from it. And I even feel that at the most micro scale between me and my parents.    [00:17:39] Miko Lee: Can you, share with us that are not located in Minnesota, what the experience is like of this federal occupation on a day to day? Like, we're talking today on March 2nd, and I say that because our world, everything's changing every day and this is gonna air on a separate day. So I wanna name that. So right now, what is it like when you're just walking through the streets in downtown Minneapolis ?   [00:18:01] Macy Tran: Yeah. It's interesting because when you ask me this, I think about my experience like a month ago and how different it was and it felt to walk around a month ago compared to now. A month ago. It. I was seeing a neighbor on every corner of major streets, like looking for ice. You know, I was seeing car caravans, honking and following ICE agents. It's interesting 'cause like I actually just had a friend visit from Milwaukee and. She was nervous about ice. She's Asian American as well, and she was like, should I be scared? What's actually going on? And I told her, actually, yes, what's going on is scary and violent. And I feel so safe because I am meeting neighbors I have never met before. I'm making small talk with people who are just. Out on the streets walking their dog in a way that they would not normally, I'm talking to business owners, we're talking about the impacts of this occupation. Everywhere I go, there were eyes and that felt really powerful and strong. And now that operation Metro Surge is technically over they are supposed to be withdrawing ICE agents from the city. I would say there is definitely a decrease in the number of ICE agents in our city. Activity is much slower. However I would say out in the suburbs of Minneapolis and St. Paul, they are seeing action and enforcement from ICE agents. That is. Either at the, kind of the same amount that we were receiving or escalated. The concentration is higher out in the suburbs And so even though things were quieter in the city, they were elsewhere. And    [00:19:57] Miko Lee: yeah, I just saw videos this morning of protesters that were peacefully marching that just got tackled. Actually by Minnesota Sheriff's department working in conjunction with ice. I know every state in every region is a little bit different. But I thought that was something that Governor Waltz was working on right?    [00:20:15] Macy Tran: So actually the city ordinance that you are talking about is actually on a Minneapolis City level. So that was a decision made by Mayor Fray. Oh, that's only city. So it's only MPD, Minneapolis Police Department, who is not supposed to assist in, federal and right. Federal enforcement. However, on a county level, that's different. I see. So sheriffs might be working with, I know it's like, so complic, what a mess complicated. I    [00:20:41] Miko Lee: know. This is the same, I mean, this is the same everywhere, right? Mm-hmm. It's all broken down. Okay. So, so I think I hear you saying that ICE has kind of moved on with the targeted big city approach and they're going out into the suburbs instead. Is that right?    [00:20:57] Macy Tran: Yes. There are still protestors, and observers going every day to the Whipple building. The Whipple building is where ICE agents are coming from, and so they have definitely recorded a decrease in the number of ICE vehicles. So the volume isn't as high, but the cars are still coming and we're still seeing enforcement and violence in our neighborhoods. Just the other day, just a few streets down, a person was abducted in our neighborhood in Minneapolis. And because the volume isn't as high, they're not as easily able to track. And so they're working a lot more under the radar. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And their tactics have become just a lot more. Under the radar as well. In the early days in January, it was really easy to identify ICE out-of-state license plate, tinted windows. Big vehicles like super easy. Nowadays they're putting like coexist bumper stickers and little things on their dashboards and like, you know, driving little sedans and it's definitely not as easy and they're moving a lot more covertly. And because Operation Metro Surge has technically decreased and because many of our frontline activists have been working at this for months and are getting tired. Mm-hmm. There is a really interesting transition period happening here. Mm-hmm. Where I think we're all trying to align on what is the next.   [00:22:31] What's the next step? Mm-hmm. How? How are we, what is the best way to move given that this is the way that ICE is operating now? Yeah,    [00:22:40] Miko Lee: right. Just    [00:22:41] Macy Tran: under reflection. Mm-hmm.    [00:22:42] Miko Lee: Under such sneaky circumstances, like what they recently did in New York at Columbia, showing up at Columbia University with a missing child picture of a little kid. And that's how they got entry into the dorms, which is so wrong to terrible get a student. So that's actually illegal to like misrepresent being a police officer when they're not, they're a nice officer and    [00:23:05] Macy Tran: mm-hmm.    [00:23:06] Miko Lee: Showing a photo, I mean, it's so awful.    [00:23:08] Macy Tran: Mm-hmm.    [00:23:09] Miko Lee: I'm wondering how people that don't live in Minnesota can get involved.   [00:23:14] Macy Tran: Hmm. The, greatest frontier currently that is in need of support is rent support. There are, probably hundreds of maybe thousands of people who are likely at risk of eviction in the Twin Cities, because they have not been able to work for the past two months without fear of being abducted. We're calling on Governor Waltz for an eviction moratorium, which would prevent folks from being evicted. Governor Waltz is the only person who really has jurisdiction to implement an immediate rental moratorium, and he's done that before during the pandemic, and so we're trying to make arguments that this is. A state of emergency people are like not able, they weren't able to work. Like people are going to get evicted putting calls to his office, sending emails. So that's one way to get involved from abroad, uh, or not abroad outside of Minnesota, but also abroad if you're abroad And listening to this. The other way was, is that there's a lot of hyper-local organizing that is happening within Minneapolis that I can speak to every. Neighborhood and corner, I feel like, of Minneapolis is being accounted for usually by a team of just volunteer mutual aid groups who are fundraising for rent, who are fundraising for groceries who are fundraising for utilities.   [00:24:45] And these are all like live fundraising pages on the internet. And if you have even just 10, $20 to spare to help a Minneapolis resident, um, not get evicted in the next month. Um, every dollar matters. In this moment, rent is due. Soon, we're just at the beginning of March. And if folks aren't able to pay rent now and they haven't been able to pay rent in the last couple of months, like this is only going to have a snowball effect. We cannot risk vulnerable neighbors migrants, immigrants being, like more of them being unhoused at this moment. We already in our city have so many unhoused people who are not being cared for by our city officials, who are having their encampments being taken down and who are already not receiving adequate support. Our system cannot handle an influx of more unhoused people and we can prevent this. I would say that is kind of the biggest frontier at the moment in terms of what I'm seeing organizing on the ground.    [00:26:01] Miko Lee: Would you have links that you could share with us definitely for rent support. That would be really great if, and I'll definitely, I'll add them to the Apex Express show notes so folks that wanna get involved can contribute and help support community. You wrote in your piece about books, lovely books and podcasts and things that inspired you, which I always love hearing about those things. And one of the books you wrote about was Rice and Baguette, A History of Food in Vietnam. Can you talk a little bit about it, how it deepened your understanding of food legacies and resistance?    [00:26:33] Macy Tran: Mm So I read that book while I was living in Vietnam actually. So it was really cool for me to, what I love about that book, it's a little like academic. I will say that it is a food history like you are reading history, you know, it's a little bit like dense at some points, um, for    [00:26:49] Miko Lee: the real foodie audience.    [00:26:51] Macy Tran: For real. I'm like, if, yeah, exactly. And luckily that's me. I was into it. What I loved about it were, the legends, like there were some what I, so in Vietnam when I was living there, something that I loved and was learning more was that like Vietnamese people have so many legends about folk legends about food, like the origins of the watermelon,, the origins of our bunte cake, which is the cake that we eat, the sticky rice cake we eat during, lunar New Year. There are so many Food origin stories that I just did not grow up being raised on. And so, this book talked about some of like, how did pho even get started, you know, is pho even truly Vietnamese? It's, that's a debate I'm not gonna have right now. But. I loved just hearing the greater context in which all of this existed, especially not growing up with those stories and being,    [00:27:55] Miko Lee: Hey, wait, what is the origin of watermelon?    [00:27:58] Macy Tran: So it's this like funny little. Story where, this prince essentially gets banished to an island with his wife. And then on this random island, he finds this like incredible fruit, the watermelon, and he's like, whoa, this is so delicious. I want I must show this to the people back at home, but they won't have me because I'm banished. And then he basically floats the watermelon back to the mainland and they find it and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so incredible. We must, invite this man back to the mainland.    [00:28:38] Miko Lee: How did they know it was from him? Did he like carve his name in the watermelon?    [00:28:43] Macy Tran: I don't know. It's actually been a while since I've heard this story, so I could be just like. You know, I don't know all the details. That's    [00:28:50] Miko Lee: okay. That's always better anyway.   [00:28:53] Macy Tran: just stories like that. I love to hear them. I also learned about what it was like to eat and cook during foreign occupation when, oh, you know, the French were colonizers mm-hmm. When the Chinese were colonizers. Mm-hmm. And just the incredible Vietnamese food ways that emerged from those periods of colonization. Mm-hmm. They were both brutal and violent and also full of adaptation and creativity and survival foods. And so the book just talked about all of that, and I just love knowing those stories that help me know the ways in which our people have been able to survive for this long and are now free under, foreign  occupation.    [00:29:40] Miko Lee: Speaking of, you mentioned creativity and adaptability, and you are a multihyphenate person, as an artist, as an organizer, as a writer, as a visual artist, collage maker, I'm wondering how your artistry impacts your organizing and vice versa. How do they speak to each other? How do they influence each other?    [00:30:01] Macy Tran: Hmm. I am someone who, when there is an issue or a problem that arises, I'm often just confronting it with what can I do? What can I like feasibly do? How can I show up? And I think my artistic practices actually help me slow down. Even the ways that I can show up in community and do things in community, I'm very responsive. I'm always like, okay let's do a thing. Let's organize it. Let's get our hands dirty. I am out there, I am organizing people, you know, like tangibly. And I think the ways that my artistic practices partner with that is that my artistic practices help me reflect and remember and deepen and find spiritual grounding and purpose. my art is a way that I bridge conversations with my ancestors and I bridge what it means to know myself and be a person, a community member, a Vietnamese American daughter in this moment, right? And it reminds me of the skills that I have and wanna bring to the world. It also helps me create different narratives for understanding what's happening and. For finding creative solutions and for collaborating with others. So I think I would honestly be so burnt out and exhausted and sad if it were not for my artistic practices. I think it's because of my artistic practices that I find energy, that I find belonging, that I find meaning in the work that I'm doing.    [00:31:51] Miko Lee: I love that answer. Can you share, because you brought this up, can you share about a conversation or an interaction you've had with an ancestor and how that's influenced you recently?   [00:32:03] Macy Tran: Hmm. That's such a great question. I'm going to tie this answer into Lunar New Year because, lunar New Year is a time in which our material world and the spiritual world really can converge in a meaningful way, at least for me. And every year when I celebrate Lunar New Year, I will do something different. I deepen my practices. I just kind of deepen what I know about. Folk tradition and ancestor worship. And every year I learned new things and I wanna try new things. And so this year was the first year that I built a public altar space in my living room. Usually I just have it in my bedroom or in a small corner of my home somewhere that's like usually private. But I built like. It wasn't like a tiny little altar, like it was big, you know, like I had photos of all my relatives on there. I had flowers, I had five kinds of fruits. I had, you know, little, every time I ate a meal, I was putting a meal aside for my family to eat with me. And, Some cultures you don't eat the food that you leave on the altar, but in my family we do. And the reason for that is because we get to become one with our ancestors. We get to embody what our ancestors are and eat as well and their spirits, and so this past Lunar New Year, I actually threw a, I had celebrations on both sides of the family. And then I organized a new year party for my chosen family who came from all walks of life. And the prompt for the party, it was a potluck. The prompt for the potluck was cook something or bring something that your ancestors would be just delighted to eat on the altar. And so we    [00:34:00] Miko Lee: love that.    [00:34:01] Macy Tran: Oh yeah. It was so sweet. People came out with their best work, I should say, like the food was fantastic. Our ancestors were eating well, and I was sitting there. And this altar was full of tiny little plates of food, beautiful flowers. I also asked people to bring pictures, photos of their ancestors or people that they wanna honor. Incense were lit. The room was filled with incense smoke, and I was just, there was a moment where I was just, kinda in the corner of the room just watching, you know, and I had a feeling like, wow, all of our ancestors are hanging out right now. Not only are me and my chosen family, you know, building a community and belonging for ourselves but also like. I could have never, and probably they could have never predicted that my friend's like Jewish grandpa was hanging out with my Vietnamese grandmother and grandfather, you know, or yeah, my friends like grandparents from Antigua are now hanging out with like my family members and it's, it was just a moment where I just felt not just the joy.   [00:35:16] And love in the space of connecting with my real, like my friends in that moment. But also just the miraculousness of what it meant to hold all of our ancestors in that space. And so, after that I ended up writing a piece on my substack, actually as a letter to my ancestors. I, I kept the altar up for a week, a week and a half. And on the last day I was ready to take it down and move it back upstairs into my room. But on the last day, I thought, I'm gonna light the incense one more time. And have my ancestors in the space as I write this piece to them. There were so many things I wanted to say to them. And also at the same time, I felt like as I was writing, they were saying things to me, this is what I have to teach you in this moment, is kind of what they were saying to me. This is like, this is what it's like to celebrate that under occupation. This is what it was like when we thought it wasn't even possible to celebrate Tet. Like we had literally nothing but rice and water and yet we still did, and my grandma recently passed a I mean, it's not so recent anymore, but it's been just over a year now. And she was like, One of the first like major deaths of the elder generation in my family. And Tet was the time that I could commune with her and share love with her. And, I could just feel her presence in the space and I would even, memories felt like a way that she was talking to me. The memory of just the crackle of her sesame balls, like she made the best sesame balls. They were like. Thin and crispy and fluffy, but also like so like they were not skimping on the mung bean on the inside. It was fantastic. So I'm just like, I haven't had a sesame ball from her in over a year, but I can remember how it tastes and feels, and my mouth and that memory itself is a message from her. To remember what has fed me through so many years, and how important it is to just remember the, not only just the foods that we eat, but the people that have loved that food into existence. And now me, you know,    [00:37:38] Miko Lee: have you made it the dish, the sesame balls.    [00:37:43] Macy Tran: I actually have her recipe books, so I planned to I just didn't have time, this past Tet, but me and my brother were going to, and then I think we decided we wanted to do it on just like on a lower key day, like instead of like in the midst of just like so much family celebration, there was so much to prepare and we were like, let's just plan a low key weekend where it's just me and you and there's no timeline and we don't have to get this anywhere and they don't have to be perfect. Like    [00:38:14] Miko Lee: that sounds lovely. So it's personal and it's family and Exactly. And if for a one year anniversary, death anniversary is coming up, that might be a great time to honor her.    [00:38:22] Macy Tran: Exactly. Exactly.    [00:38:24] Miko Lee: I'm wondering what was like some standout dishes from that lovely event to you?    [00:38:29] Macy Tran: Ooh. I mean, I will talk about the dish I made.   [00:38:33] Miko Lee: Okay.    [00:38:36] Macy Tran: Which I thought was fantastic and I think my friends also thought were delicious. Was delicious. Um, but a dish that is commonly eaten during the lunar new year for Vietnamese people is a tit ka, which is a caramelized, braised pork belly. This caramelized, braised pork was stewing for probably three hours. Wow. And so, yeah, and I used coconut water with it. I didn't like, straight up coconut water and it    [00:39:04] Miko Lee: no Coca-Cola.    [00:39:06] Macy Tran: No Coca-Cola not in this one. And I just made a huge, huge pot and it was basically almost all gone by the end of the night. So that was like a really good feeling. Um, my brother made an incredible duck heart lap. He works at Diane's Place, actually, it's a famous Hmong restaurant in Minneapolis. And they processed duck on the menu. And so he had like access to all these duck organs and he made an incredible loup that he brought to the party. And my, one of my little sisters, Iris, she's Puerto Rican and she made like tostones, like fried plantains and then she also made Puerto Rican rice, and she, she made like three or four dishes. So like, people really went above and beyond for their ancestors. I could really, I mean, it was probably like 20 people who came to this party, so there were so many dishes and they were all. So good. So I, I don't wanna, once I get into it, I'm gonna go into it, so I'm not gonna chat your ear off.    [00:40:13] Miko Lee: Sounds lovely. Sounds yummy. Mm-hmm. And my last question is, I'm wondering what manifestation for the year of the horse you have for yourself.    [00:40:23] Macy Tran: The 18 million rising essay that I wrote came, it was right before the lunar new year that it got published. And it came during a time where I was already thinking a lot about my creative practice and how in, in relationship my creative practice in relationship with also the ways that I organize and the ways that I cook and, organize around food. And when this opportunity for this essay emerged and just the way it has been received has been such an honor, like, because I haven't written for myself, you know, in so long and like really with my own voice I just didn't realize that people were going to resonate with it so much and find like an invitation to engage in food justice themselves and their own ancestry. And also the ways that it made them think about food and their relationship to food. And it was such a blessing for me to receive that resonance from people, you know, and to receive, just the stories that I've heard and the way it spoke to them. And I felt like that has been a blessing for me to just really expand my creative practice and be more public with it. I'm like, dang, if this little thing that I wrote impacted people in the way that they think about the world, like. I have so many more ideas I wanna share and like be in partnership with others about.   [00:41:57] And I just launched my Substack, right after the Lunar New Year and I was like, all right, you're the fire horse. Let's freaking go. I am ready, I am running. So, I just wanna be creating so much and like act manifesting and actualizing a lot of the dreams that I have, my creative dreams that I have continued to put on the back burner. Things about hosting supper clubs and doing more work around my parents' restaurant, like helping them create narrative around the restaurant and sharing our restaurant story with people. And just using my words and experiences as a way to connect with the world and also be open to the ways that people wanna connect with me. So that's kind of the ways that I'm, I'm seeing this year unfold already, and it's already started with a bang. I also wanna add that year of the fire horse for me is just a lot about movement and progress. And so in this sense movement, I think of social movements and the ways that social this particular social movement against ICE in our city will fundamentally. Impact us for the next lunar year. It happened right at the beginning of the lunar New Year and it's going to have deep effects into the year, and we will forever be changed by this. And I am so excited to see the ways in which we harness this energy for transformation, for care into something that's really meaningful.   [00:43:37] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining us on Apex Express. It was a delight to talk with you.    [00:43:42] Macy Tran: Thank you, Miko. This was so great. Thanks for having me.   [00:43:45] Miko Lee: Next up, listen to researcher professor, Dr. Milkie Vu, speak on her exploration on Asian Americans and food insecurities. Welcome, Dr. Milkie Vu, assistant professor at Northwestern. Welcome so much to Apex Express.    [00:44:04] Dr. Milkie Vu: Thank you. I'm delighted to be here.    [00:44:07] Miko Lee: Dr. Milkie is a mixed methods researcher focusing on community engagement and health issues, and I'm excited to talk with you today. I wanna start by first asking the question that I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   [00:44:24] Dr. Milkie Vu: My people are the Vietnamese community, and when I think of my people, the first word that comes to my mind is resilience. I was raised in Vietnam. I speak Vietnamese fluently and I embrace my culture very deeply. I carry the memory of my parents and grandparents who have lived to colonization multiple world. And the challenge of post-war poverty and the ability to, endure all these hardship is the legacy that I bring with me and in my day to day life it acts as a personal life of hope for me and then professionally in the. Work that I do is really a foundation and it drives my dedication and commitment to working on health solution with Asian American and immigrant communities who have similar stories of hardship, but also perseverance.   [00:45:19] Miko Lee: Thank you so much. I really appreciate how your background has informed the work that you're doing, and I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about this study, this scoping review on food insecurity among Asian Americans. Can you one first start off by breaking down what a scoping review is.   [00:45:37] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah, I'm happy to talk about that. So a scoping review is essentially a methodology that we use to be able to summarize existing scientific literature and try to understand how this literature. Answer research questions that we have.   [00:45:56] Miko Lee: Can you tell me what inspired this study?    [00:45:59] Dr. Milkie Vu: I've done community engaged research with, Asian American population for over a decade. In doing so, I have come to realize , as an anecdotal evidence, how food insecurity is a issue in the community. And yet that's very little that has been, done in terms of research or policy that target this problem., So for example, the US Department of Agriculture, will publish annually a report on food insecurity in America and it will include several, racial and ethnic populations, but Asian Americans are frequently ommitted from that report. So, you know, at the national level, that data doesn't exist, which then, makes it very difficult to understand what is the severity of the problem and what are some of the solutions that could be done to address them. So that's why we were interested in doing a deeper dive into summarizing the literature too be able to see what has been done about this problem and what are some of the barriers that exist, towards food security for community members, and what are some of the literature gaps? Our review was published in 2024 was the first scientific review of the literature on food insecurity among Asian Americans.    [00:47:27] Miko Lee: And what did your study uncover?    [00:47:31] Dr. Milkie Vu: We documented several important findings. There is a lack of existing data on this problem. Due to this myth of Asian Americans being the model minority. Assuming that Asian Americans are uniformly successful socioeconomically and thus not experiencing, any challenge including food insecurity. One of the things that we found is the importance of data disaggregation and looking at food insecurity in different Asian origin groups. We found that food insecurity really varied. So for example, if you look at some groups like Japanese Americans, we found the prevalence of between two to 11% of the population reporting food insecurity. But then if you look at some of the Southeast Asian groups, for example, Filipinos or Hmong American or Vietnamese, the rates are much higher. So the studies that we found report, between eight to 41% of food insecurity and among Filipino population. Close to 48% for more Hmong American, and then between 14 or 28% for Vietnamese Americans, so much higher than the rates for other groups.   [00:48:48] Data Dion is important and there shouldn't be this grouping of different Asian groups in research because then it really erased like the struggles specific communities with food insecurity. I think the other finding that was really important is looking at more systemic or structural barriers that prevent people from being food secure. Our review found that limited English proficiency is a important driver of food insecurity. The lack of appropriate language services, whether that's food pantry or for things like snap navigation. These could be important target point infusion policy or interventions that could help address food insecurity, community members. We also look at a couple of qualitative studies that found really interesting things. So for example, even when Asian American community members do use food assistance programs like snap, the benefits are often not sufficient. And they have a negative experience. There's also fear of how that might negatively impact the immigration status or application. Those are important barriers that should be acknowledge.   [00:50:08] Miko Lee: Some of these numbers are so high. You mentioned 48% with Hmong folks with, it's just so surprising, and I wonder if there's a sense of the why some of these communities have a higher food insecurity than others.    [00:50:21] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah, one of the things that we did point out in the conclusion was the need for just more studies focusing on these, smaller Asian groups or smaller Asian population that are done in like the appropriate language to be. From some of the experience I've had, part of it is probably shaped by, the historical conditions to which some of these, communities might have come to the us. For example, thinking about my community Vietnamese, coming to America as refugees, fleeing persecution or free fleeing war and how that, historical conditions might create structural and socioeconomic challenge in Britain, in the community. I am also curious about is the availability of service and program that are linguistically appropriate or, providing culturally relevant food for these communities. So those are important points that we can hypothesize, but obviously more research is needed to understand, the root cause of these challenge and how to address them.   [00:51:28] Miko Lee: And were you focused on specific regions or this was national?    [00:51:34] Dr. Milkie Vu: I'm really glad that you asked about this. So the review itself is, summarizing all published literature focusing on Asian Americans. All of the studies take place in the us. A lot of the, studies probably focus on data that are from the coast. So either on Asian American, on the east coast or the west coast. , But we looked at the study like from a nationwide angle and I'm also happy to talk about some of the new committee organizations in Chicago looking at food insecurity and community-based solutions to address that among Asian Americans. Part of the motivation for the follow-up study was just thinking about the lack of data focusing on the Midwest or Chicago where I live.    [00:52:20] Miko Lee: Please, I'd love to hear more about that . [00:52:23] Dr. Milkie Vu: The COVID pandemic, had brought a lot challenges for food insecurity. For people nationwide in general, but then for Asian American, there's also this, so what I call like the double, almost like a double pandemic, like the waves of entire Asian violence and hate crimes. And so thinking about how that impact food insecurity in general among, Asian American community members. About two years ago, we interviewed around, 13 organizations in Chicago. All of them are either community based organizations, social services or food pantry, working with, primarily with Asian American community members, from diverse groups: korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipino, south Asian, Mongolian, et cetera throughout Chicago. And the question that we asked them was, thinking about what programs they have offered during the COVID pandemic that aim at reducing food insecurity among community members. How did they implement this program? Who are some of the vulnerable populations served by the program? How did the pandemic as far as anti-Asian racism impact the program organization? That was the first study that looked at how community organization in Chicago help address this issue of insecurity on this, the COVID pandemic.   [00:53:57] Miko Lee: And so what is the next step for this study or what is the next piece that you're working on as connected to this?    [00:54:05] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah. Think about the role of the community organization as grassroots organizations that work from the ground up , as opposed to more top down program structure. They're doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help community members address food insecurity, because they know the community very well. They are able to provide the in language service that community members need. They're also trusted by community members. So a lot of the time,, certain populations especially say if those with limited their English proficiency or, more newly arrived immigrants, might feel more comfortable going here as opposed to going to this organization as opposed to, another one that are more generic and don't have the staff that speak the right language. I think the other thing is, staff with the similar cultural backgrounds are able to understand. There was one quote from the study that I did in Chicago. That stuck with me. When we tell them you could go to the food bank, the American food is not quite tailored to their taste. So they will get a big chunk of cheese and they will be like, what is this? Nobody wants to eat this. Again, thinking about the role of committee organization as so important in knowing the language, knowing the cultural preferences. And then just thinking of ways that we can further support, the programs and operations that they do. This is a really challenging time for nonprofits, social service organization, both in terms of providing food as well as other social service to Asian American and immigrant communities. How can research from a place like, researchers, from academia like me, are able to partner with them to further the service that they do and be able to find the funding that support them and community members. I think that's the important step for me.   [00:56:02] Miko Lee: Dr. Vu, how can folks find out more about your work?    [00:56:06] Dr. Milkie Vu: Yeah, In order to understand more about the work that we do, so we have a website, for our lab that frequently include, you know, like our current projects as well as publications. So you can go to site, so SI ts.northwestern.edu/vu group. and you'll be able to find more information about the research that we published. We've also recently, in the beginning of the year start, to find ways to disseminate research on social media. So we also have a Facebook group for our lab that disseminates our research findings as well as include information about the community members and partners Other trainees in the lab that make this work possible. The labs Facebook group is at facebook.com/maybe give research. and then you can always reach out to me via my email milkie.vu@northwestern.edu So I'm glad to connect with people who have similar research interests or would like to learn more about the work that we do.   [00:57:06] Miko Lee: Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your information about your important work that you're doing on research with Asian American community. Appreciate hearing from you.    [00:57:15] Dr. Milkie Vu: Thank you so much.   [00:57:18] Miko Lee: Please check out our website, kpfa.org/program/apexexpress to find out more about our show and our guests tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating, and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Cheryl Truong, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preti Mangala-Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me Miko Lee, and edited by Ayame Keane-Lee. Have a great night.   The post APEX Express – 6.4.26 – Food Justice appeared first on KPFA.

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We've informally heard that Satya is a listener to LS for a couple years now, but it was still absolutely surreal to meet him and do a live pod at Build, together with our friends at No Priors, the leading VC AI Podcast that we also greatly admire!We covered the MAI model technical takeaways on yesterday's AINews, so I will focus our recap of Satya's main messages around three elements:* Satya's adaptation of the Bill Gates Line for positioning Microsoft as the Frontier Intelligence Platform — customers must gain much more value from the Microsoft ecosystem than Microsoft itself, by building on multi-model harnesses like OpenClaw and Scout, drawing on the full enterprise context exposed by context layers like Work IQ (heavily dogfooded by his C-suite), and building up private evals and traces as a new form of Token IP* AI ROI: On one hand, enterprises are having difficult conversations around Tokenmaxxing and Layoffs, and on the other hand, there are serious re-evaluations of the End of SaaS since the Build vs Buy equation has changed so much. Our previous SemiAnalysis guest had… interesting comments on Microsoft's position on this as the ur-SaaS titan, and Satya had great answers* Making the Impossible Possible: Kevin Scott's inspiring framing around what the most ambitious version of applying AI and technology at large to business and social problems, like education and social impact.Enjoy!Full VideoTranscriptVoiceover: Welcome swyx, Sarah Guo, Elad Gil,, and Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Microsoft, Satya NadellaSarah Guo: Welcome to a crossover episode of No Priors and Lane Space with Satya Nadella. Um, congratulations on an amazing build. No, thank you so much, and it's great to be with both of you. I listen to both of you or b- both the podcasts all the time. It's great to be on it.Thank you so much. [00:01:00] So you're just talking about, um, these amazing, uh, announcements from across the Microsoft estate all morning for, I think, three hours. What is the, uh, what's the most important reflection or takeaway you have?AI as an Ecosystem PlatformSarah Guo: I, I'd say there are, uh, perhaps the, the biggest one for me is let's sort of conceptualize this more as an ecosystem play as opposed to a single model or even a single platform, right?Satya Nadella: I mean, you know, whatever I... At least for me, having grown up at Microsoft, having seen, whatever, four major platform shifts, uh, I sort of fall into that, um, uh, camp where a platform is defined by fundamentally its ability to create more value about the platform versus what's captured in the platform. And so if you, you view what's happening right now, I think this morning's keynote was how can any company, whether it's an AI native company or a traditional enterprise company, participate as a first-class participant where they can point to AI they created, [00:02:00] right?It's not that they don't use other people's AI. Of course they will. But to me, what's the path? What's the recipe? How do I do it? What does a stack look like? What does the tooling look like? What is valuable? How do you do that? That's it. That's sort of our job to do. Yeah. Ecosystem strategy is, uh, very complicated, right?Sarah Guo: Because you end up building certain components, partnering for certain components, supporting them. You just announced this big suite of models. Like, tell us a little bit about the, uh, training strategy for Microsoft now. Yeah.MAI Models & Training StrategySarah Guo: So, so the thing that we wanted to do with the MAI models was to build, and as Mustafa talked about, first of all, a great lineage, right?Satya Nadella: Starting with pre-training, uh, with very good data quality, uh, doing all the ablations, making sure because in, in some sense it's becoming even harder to build a clean lineage model just because there's so much stuff out there, uh, that you truly need to ablate out to be able to have a fantastic [00:03:00] pre-trained model.In fact, that's one of the challenges of a lot of the open weight models is they look great on one benchmark or two, but they're not great on practice. So that's why, in fact, even in the RFDEs are, they, they are pretty gone really excited about these MAI models because how the heck can a small five B model hill climb?Uh, and it goes back a little bit to what I think is ultimately the key thing to do, which is try to pursue finding that cognitive core. Uh, so to me, starting with a clean lineage- Then creating that ability for companies to be able to use this, right? Not just as a generalist, but to create their own specialist by building this hill climbing scaffold around it, right?So it's not just the model, but you have a hill climb scaffold around it, then you will start building your RLE. You will start collecting the traces. Most importantly, you'll have private evals because we know all the evals out there are good, interesting, [00:04:00] but they're not really that critical- They're work, yeahSwyx: at this point because they all can be maxed. And so the point is each company will have its own private eval. And so that end-to-end platform story around our models is sort of, uh, what I think is interesting. And then the one other thing, Sarah, since you brought that up, is I do feel there's a new frontier.Satya Nadella: Like people talk about the frontier and are you operating at the frontier. Um, interestingly enough, if you add a little temporality to it, you can use, let's say, in, in, in fact, the, the Lando Lakes demo we showed was pretty cool. We used, whatever, GPT-55, right? Then you collected a bunch of traces, and then you took a 5B reasoning model and achieved higher.Sarah Guo: Uh, so that is another aspect of what it means to appear... uh, you know, operate at the frontier Yeah. I, I think, uh, I first of all have to congratulate you on basically building a frontier neo lab inside of Microsoft in two years. Um, I'm wondering, you know, you have all this AI strategy that you're rolling out.Lessons from Two Years of AI DevelopmentSwyx: I'm wondering, what do you know now that you wish you would tell yourself two years ago where- or two or [00:05:00] three years ago? Three years for the Jensen partnership, two years for, uh, MEI. Yeah, I mean, I think the, the thing when, that I reflect quite a bit, right, which is sort of obviously I got into all this when I got excited by the, the scaling laws paper and, you know, when, you know, even the OpenAI partnership came about when those folks said, “Hey, we're gonna really throw a lot of computer transformers.”Satya Nadella: Uh, and they've helped. I- the thing that I always look back and say, “Wow, these things, uh, do have capability that they're climbing up.” W- I mean, this, you know, this crude way of saying it is intelligence is log of compute kind of works. Now what I think we underestimated perhaps is the real-world complexity of deploying these so that they actually deliver the value in the real world, right?So the outcomes as measured by any benchmark is interestingly important, but the true eval is when people out there are able to do unique things that they only can value, and it's very [00:06:00] measurable, right? That I wish we had sort of even, like, had more in our consciousness, right? Which is as an industry.Sarah Guo: Because right now I think when people say, “Wow, I don't want a token max,” it's an artifact of us not having thought ourselves as an industry that we are using tokens to create value every step of the way. So I think that's kind of what I wish we had gotten there, but I'm glad we are here.Real-World Value & Use CasesSarah Guo: What are some of the use cases that you've seen that have created the most value for your customers?Because I know that people talk a lot about code, and I think it's pretty clear that that's something that's having very large scale impact. Are there other areas that you find in common that your customers are really benefiting from? Yeah. I think, yeah, to your point, obviously coding is now got... But it's interesting, by the way, Elijah, to even talk about the coding, right?Satya Nadella: Which is coding has worked so well that we now have to rebuild the IDE, right? I mean, it's kind of nuts to see what we sh- launched is like, oh my God, I have these hundred agent sessions. I... The cognitive load it transfers back to me as a human is so [00:07:00] excessive that now I need a new UI. Uh, oh, by the way, I, like the, the chat as the only artifact was also impossible, so that's why we need a canvas.So it's kind of interesting for all the things about where is software needed or where is UI needed, uh, you kind of need that even for code, right? In a fully agentic world. But that said, one of the things that we are starting to see, we started seeing with co-work, but even some of the work we, we showed with auto com- uh, um, autopilot Right on what you see with claws is a good one because if you sort of think about a lot of human capital is doing the glue work, right?If you now can augment that with tokens/agents that are long-running, durable, right, then your ability to scale even what is still judgment and glue work gets amplified like coding does. Uh, so you can... Like, I'm positive that six months from now we'll all be saying, “Oh, wow,” like, all through ni- the night there was a bunch of stuff that [00:08:00] all these autopilots that I have working on my behalf with my delegated authority, so to speak, right?I can... Sort of given even my identity, did a bunch of work, then of course I'll need my new ADE to say, “Well, what did you do?” Like, I might... “Did I do this work?” And so on. So I think that that's where compressing of workflows, uh, completing of tasks, uh, that's where I think a lot of the value gets created. I think you raised a really interesting point, which is there's the actual agent that's doing the code, and then there's a harness around it, and that's the environment, that's the context, that's everything you're setting up as a developer around actually a coding agent.The Harness Concept for Enterprise AISarah Guo: What is the harness for the enterprise? Is there an equivalent concept for broader productivity work, or how do you think about that concept sort of generalized? That's right. So, so in some sense you kind of want the harness to define the models, the, the data, uh, and the tools, and so that you have a loop across those three.Satya Nadella: And so what we are trying to, first of all, make sure is each of our products that we build, right, whether it's GitHub Copilot or the security copi- the, the [00:09:00] stuff we showed with MDASH or even the discovery for science, it doesn't matter, all of them are multi-model harnesses, um, with tools access so that you can do this progressive, uh, disclosure of tools even so that they're token efficient.Uh, and then you're feeding it with very rich context because that's sort of the other hard lesson we have learned in the last two years is, oh my God, the amount of work you need to do to prep the context layer, uh, such that your plan can execute in the most efficient way is where the magic is. So we have, in our case, we have the GitHub harness, which essentially we're using across all our products.It's available in Foundry, and we are open, like you can use your Llama harness, whatever. Or you can use the, um, uh, you know, any open harness or any harness of yours and train with your tools and multiple models and your context. And so that's the pitch. Because right now a lot of dialogue is, um, “Hey, if I train the harness plus tools and the model together, you get [00:10:00] evals.”Elad Gil: And what we are proving out is... And the best example of that is what we did with MDASH, right? Because when it launched, uh, it found bugs or vulnerabilities that were not found by Mythos Uh, and so there is existence proof, I would claim, that you can have a multimodal harness, uh, that can in fact be more, uh, performant in the real world So a premise behind the, uh, training at the independent frontier labs is really, you know, we're gonna have these models, and we'll have an API business, and we'll support enterprises and startups.Sarah Guo: ButPlatform Strategy & Developer EcosystemSarah Guo: a first-party product, be it productivity or code or search, drives the majority of revenue. That's a different value equation than you're describing, I think, with the Microsoft ecosystem. Uh, if, if that's the case, tell me if it's the case, uh, ‘cause obviously you have first-party products and you have enablement products.Satya Nadella: Um, what is the role of the develop- Like what is gonna be hard and the set of skills and the value capture the developer has in that world? Yeah. So I think that there's always [00:11:00] gonna be the case that someone who is super successful in- as a platform builder can also have first-party products. It was true with Windows.It is true, uh, with, uh, the, the SaaS side and the cloud side as well with us and others and so on. But the thing that is, is it should not be a limiter to other people achieving that same success, right? That I think is the core difference, which is the, the network effects this time around, around intelligence are such because they learn from data, and not really lots of data.It's just a few samples that you have to see to understand what's novel about something. So that's why the game becomes how to protect. So that's why I would say every company, having private evals may be the biggest IP, right? Think about it, like what's that private eval that you can then use even a frontier model to hill climb on and not leak the traces may be one of the biggest [00:12:00] drivers, uh, of IP.Like, so in other words, another te- acid test is you have an eval that's private. You're using, uh, a g- a Model A. Can you switch it to Model B and e- you know, climb up? If you can, then you're in control. If you can't, you're not in control, and that's where even the harness decision becomes super important, right?swyx So therefore, having an open harness, letting all models come in, having your evals, your context, your tools help you hill climb, I think is the skills that an AI native startup needs, a SaaS company needs, or every enterprise needs. Yeah, I think in, in a very real way you are ... Microsoft historically is an operating systems company and th- then become a cloud company.Maybe like the third act is that you're a harness or evals company. Whatever w- ... whatever the, the sort of conglomerate of concepts that you wanna put together. Um, and, and I think like enabling every company to have like frontier intelligence or what- what- Yeah ... I forget the, the [00:13:00] exact term that you used, um, is the, is the mission, right?Satya Nadella: That's it. Like that is, that is the platform promise, that you build with us, you will get your intelligence, uh, for your data. That's it. That ... To, to me, that is the ... Like if there was one tagline, uh, for this entire developer conference is- Can everybody operate at the frontier with their frontier intelligence, right?To me, that is so important because otherwise it, I, I don't know how you achieve stable equilibrium, right? Which is how do I then go and say, “Well, my company is gonna have a terminal value because I now know how to continuously compound-” Yeah ... on top of what's a platform that gets better,” right? So when, like Windows obviously came out, Adobe built, Autodesk built, uh, or even like take what Jensen said.We built DX and he built, you know, CUDA on top of it. Um, right? I mean, I always say to Jensen, “God, I got the short end of that,” right? “I wish, uh, we had recognized it.” But nevertheless, but that, that idea that you can build a platform layer [00:14:00] that someone else can then extend out, um, and build their own intelligence layer in this case, I think is everything, right?Without it, why have a developer conference? I can just come and have you all sort of just worship at the altar of one model. Yeah. But that's not a developer conference. Uh,IP, Evals & Company Valueswyx: backstage we, we had a discussion about what is IP or what is the, the value in a company. It used to be the length of, uh, human experience at a company, and now it's this other thing which is the evals, the, uh, experience in sort of applying agents to the company. Can you... I just want you to like flesh that out a bit more ‘cause- Yeah ... it was very insightful.Satya Nadella: It's a great way to frame it, right? Because yeah, at the end of the day, every company is gonna have both the human capital that is still gonna be super valuable, uh, because humans, uh, and their ability to find the gaps that exist at all times is going to be the way we all will create value, right?I mean, so I'm definitely in the camp that this is going to be about expressing new forms of human agency and ambition even as token capital goes up, right? So let's say a cor- any corporation [00:15:00] has lots of tokens and lot of human capital. The question is how do you compound the two? So if you have a... Like if you take in Teams I have a bunch of agents doing work and a bunch of humans doing work, and the traces between those, that is really important context of how that enterprise is creating value.Then that goes back to train not a generalist model, but to train the company veteran agent, uh, right? That is super valuable again, right? Which is when a company goes says, “It should in fact go onto the balance sheet,” is how I think about it, right? That's so... In fact, there may be... Like human capital was never possible to go put on a balance sheet, uh, because you didn't know how to capture the tacit knowledge.swyx: Whereas now I think you can with the agents that have learned through the h- through, through time, through all the traces. Uh, so that's what at least we think will happen. I, I think the SEC is gonna have to have accounting standards- ... for token, uh, expertise Uh, y- y- you're talking about the equilibrium [00:16:00] state, um, and a stable equilibrium where companies have this compounding value and can see terminal value for themselves.Future of SaaS & Business ModelsSarah Guo: Another challenge to, you know, the considered equilibrium of, okay, there are applications and workflows that are sort of common to a vertical or a horizontal. Um, and this was, like, the generation of SaaS companies and, you know, Microsoft has lots of SaaS properties as well. And then there are things that are very specific to every enterprise that they're differentiated against.Elad Gil: Um, I'm sure you have heard much and participate in much of the debate about the end of software because all these workflows are, are cheap to generate now. Um, do you think the equilibrium looks different between what agents get built- Yeah ... in enterprises versus in their vendors in the future? Yeah. So I think what's happening there is, see, we, we had a particular way we captured, um, I would say workflow in apps, right?Satya Nadella: Because we built a, a data model, right? We schematized some part of some business process. Mm-hmm. We then built a bunch of business logic. Yep. And then we put a bunch of UI [00:17:00] on top of it, right? So that's kind of what every SaaS company- And a little configuration. For, like, 20, 20 years that was the plan.Right, that- Yeah ... and that was it. So interestingly enough, now you kind of get to re-litigate that vertical stacking, right? So I still think, for example, that data model that you built underneath every SaaS application is super good, right? Like, why reinvent it? Like, I, I, my general ledger better be a general ledger.I don't need new schema creation. No. Uh, in fact, that entity relationship, uh, is actually pretty good, robust thing that I want to feed. And you want it to be stable. That's right. Yeah. Then same thing with business logic, right? If, if you look at, uh... We have this product called Power BI, right? It is like dashboards galore people created.The beauty underneath that dashboard is a very rich semantic model, right? Someone took the pain to create a dashboard and do all the measures, and you want that. That's business logic, right? I want that to be available to me. So I think the [00:18:00] challenge of the SaaS business model is we packaged one way. We now have to learn how to unbundle these things and rebundle in new ways and discover new business models, right?I mean, if you look at it, d- what's happening today with Microsoft 365 is a great example, right? We have this thing called Work IQ. In fact, like, what we are realizing is, oh my God, like, you know, if you look at... In fact, there's a pa- historical parallel too, right? We sold first Exchange and SharePoint and, uh, you know, before Teams, we had a thing called Lync Server and what have you, and we thought, “Oh, that's all gonna move to the cloud.”But little did we realize that, um, the number of people who will use servers in the cloud is 10X, 100X, right? Because people were not buying servers, they were just buying a subscription. Mm-hmm. The same thing is now happening with M365 because with Work IQ, we have exposed what is perhaps the most important database in a company that never got used as a database because it was only captive to our apps.Mm-hmm. Right? It, it was all email operated on it, Teams operated [00:19:00] on it, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, SharePoint. But now, like this is one of the coo- coolest things I get to do with Work IQ. I go to a GitHub repo and I say, “Hey, I attended a bunch of design meetings last week related to this repo. Can you capture all that and tell me what changes I should make?”I mean, think about that, right? It literally can go look at all those transcripts, come back with a plan to change a code base, right? Previously, you could never have thought of using M365 for something like that. So the value creation opportunity now in the agent world is in fact 10X more, but it does require us to have...Sarah Guo: For example, there's going to be usage around M365, right? Which is going to be perhaps more than even the e- end users and we have to even re-architect. Like, in fact, like what I use to serve an inbox or a mailbox cannot be used to serve an agent. Uh, and so that's sort of what we are doing.Pricing Models: Per-User, Consumption & OutcomesSarah Guo: I don't believe in, like, permanent business models for any of these domains, but in the [00:20:00] near term, do you have a prediction between, uh, you know, outcomes-based pricing, token-based pricing?Elad Gil: Enterprise bundles Yeah. The way I- I think about this is always we've had... Like, let's even take the per-user pricing. Mm-hmm. The per-user pricing is really an artifact of someone creating a budget needing certainty, right? Because it's the most important thing. Like, somebody wants a budget- Mm-hmm ... they need a per user.Satya Nadella: And, and per user is just a set of entitlements to usage, right? That's kind of what it is. And so the way is, if the first bundling will be take some usage, bundle it into per user stacks and, you know, then sell subscriptions. So subscriptions I think are gonna be there, per user is gonna be there. Then the next big thing will be consumption.So people will say, “I want consumption.” And it's also possible that people will say, “I don't even want to pay for any of the subscriptions or the consumption's outcome.” Mm. But remember, most people love outcomes until they have an outcome, because once you have an outcome, it's like giving away royalty, [00:21:00] right?Mm. I mean, like I, I've talked to customers who love, you know, outcome-based pricing, and I say, “I'm all in,” until they, “Oh my God,” like, “what are you talking about? You're sharing in my outcome? No, no, no. I want you to go back to per-user pricing, and I want you to consumption price,” right? So I think that debate will go on.Uh, but and all, all, all of these business models have a particular time and a place versus one to rule them all. And if anything, if you're a SaaS vendor or you're a platform vendor, having that flexibility... And quite frankly, we face this with GitHub, right? We just recently announced a per-user pricing on GitHub because little, you know, we- GitHub Copilot was constructed at a per-user level before we understood even, uh, the intensity of usage of agents, right?It was an interactive way for a developer to use code complete, maybe tasks. It was not like, oh, I launched 10,000, you know, agents that are going on all day, right? So that is what the adjustment is about. So now that we really want, there will [00:22:00] always be a per user, but there will have to be a consumption meter.Durability of SaaS & Build vs BuySarah Guo: How do you think about the durability of SaaS more generally? One thing I've observed is in a lot of enterprises internally, there will be teams that almost have agent euphoria. They're so excited about the explosion of things they can build that they're trying to rebuild a lot of applications or going to their SaaS vendors and saying, “We're not gonna work with you anymore,” or, “We're considering an internal project.”And it seems like in six to nine months, maybe some of those people will come back and say, “Actually, we, we can't rebuild everything.” How do you think about what's durable in this world and what isn't? Yeah, it's a... It... I think we have to go through one full budget cycle on this to really see the, um- Uh, the sort of the emergence of the equilibrium, because at the end of the day, there's marginal cost to even generating the app, right?Elad Gil: In, in fact, there can be even a, a simple way to say it, like if you should always acquire something if the marginal cost of building and maintaining, uh, something on your own is higher. Uh, right? That should be like it's a quantifiable- Yeah. Right? A quantifiable thing. And [00:23:00] the maintenance part is important, right?Even, like you got to remember like, hey, you know, all the security stuff that now AI will find, you better fix them too fast. Uh, of course, there's a coding agent to help you with, but then that burns tokens, right? So whose responsibility is it? It's kind of like a, a cycle that you've got to think through.And I think we have gone through the excitement that I can generate a lot of software. I think the next thing would be what software do I really want to generate? Mm-hmm. What software do I want to use from others? How do I compose these two into some agentic workflow that I have agency over, right?Sarah Guo: Because I think there'll be very little tolerance for anybody who's inflexible, uh, at the vendor level. Uh, but at the same time, I think that anyone who has got that flexibility shows up, delivers the value, will be back at again, right? We're selling software, uh, but with just different business models, in fact Uh, speaking about building software, um, one of my favorite moments from, I think, a previous build maybe one or two years ago was they had a b- they, they...Swyx: There was a section of you building your [00:24:00] own software. I'm curious if you're building anything now. Yeah. So I, I think the... You know, first of all, let's face it, right? Building software has made it possible for even the incompetence of a CEO of a company- ... like ours, uh, you can build, so thank God. But that said, I, I, I, I do feel that, you know, something like, um, GitHub Copilot to me, and especially the new Sessions app or the new app, has just made it so much more possible for you to have agency over artifacts that you felt you couldn't touch before, right?Satya Nadella: So to, for me as a CEO, even to go to a code base, uh, to be able to learn about it, like I remember joining Microsoft long back, you know, first and then you say, man, everybody had to go in and look at, you know, whatever, Cutler's, Malik, or what have you to learn how to do good C, uh, C++ code. Um, so now that ability to be more full stack up and down is so good, but that doesn't mean every one of us should be doing the same thing.The question is: [00:25:00] how do you then have the ability to inspect things, learn things, see things, um, I think is just so much more. And so to me, what I'm building a lot of is these long-running Foundry agents. Uh, right? So there's autopilots. So the easiest thing is, to me, I think I just built one, uh, even last week, where the idea was, hey, can I have an agent that is continuously monitoring essentially my own chief of staff autopilot, right?We're gonna have that obviously in, uh, Scout. That's what, uh, uh, we showed. But it is so easy and trivial to build. I took Work IQ. I said, “Take Work IQ, go, uh, and build a Foundry long-running agent.” Uh, store all the memory in, um, uh, using Ray Fin, right? Basically at my backend as a service. And lo and behold, it built it, and not only built it, I could say publish to Teams, and it published the damn thing to Teams.Sarah Guo: So the ability, uh, to have a, you know, some end-to-end project like this complete is just pretty [00:26:00] miraculous. How do you think, uh,Future Engineering RolesSarah Guo: that impacts the different types of engineering roles that exist in the future? Because right now I think there's, you know, a dozen different types of engineers that you can be, from QA, front end, et cetera.You know, there's a big swath. I've heard some people argue that in four or five years we'll basically end up with four engineering roles. It'll be people who are managing agents, it'll be four deployed engineers or FDEs, it'll be security engineers, and then people working on large scale infrastructure for a small number of services, and then everything else just collapses into the agentic world.Satya Nadella: Yeah, I- Do you think that's a correct view of the world? Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we'll have to experiment our way through it. But what you said is what... There are some very at scale things. At LinkedIn, they did structurally change- Mm-hmm ... uh, and it, you know, basically built up a new discipline called full stack builder, right?So they went and said, “Hey, let's bring, uh, people from design and product management, front end engineering, all put them together.” Uh, but also have an edge, right? It's not like the design person still doesn't have the design edge, or the front end [00:27:00] person doesn't have the front end edge, but you can give yourself bigger scope in roles so that you're not confined to one role.Um, and then r- equally, infrastructure has become very critical, right? So in other words, like, I mean, RLEs, I mean, one thing we've realized is even for the Excel team, for example. Mm-hmm. Building the RLE in which a reward can be learned is actually one of the hardest sort of infrastructure problems.Mm-hmm. Uh, and so you kind of need even new talent, right? Distributed systems people even in what was considered an end user app team, uh, because it's a different skill set. So yes, infrastructure, science is the other one, obviously. Um, so I think we'll see how these evolve, right? Where's the s- real... I mean, always the world will have a bunch of specialists.Okay. Um, you know, I think the generalist role is going to be the most exciting, right? Because the leverage of a generalist- Mm-hmm ... um, is where we are going to see the maximum returns, right? When, when you said, “Hey, are you coding?” I'm now a gen- Like, what... I've basically translated [00:28:00] knowledge work Right?Which I did, where I created a Word document or a spreadsheet, or even, uh... And now I can build an app, right? It's in the same sentence. Uh, right? That idea that, “Oh, wow, my generalist skills have gotten higher leverage,” I think is what we're gonna see across the board. Music to the ears of CEOs and VCs that are, like, a little dangerous and a lot of- Golden age for idea peopleSarah Guo: idea people. Yeah. Uh- With a lot of agency. I- if you take that idea of personal agency and you just zoom it out to the organizational context, um, uh, my partner Mike Renall, who, uh, actually started his career at Microsoft, just wrote an essay where one of the big takeaways is i- it's an age where you can be much more ambitious, and you need to be, given the pace of the environment and how quickly, actually, users and companies are open to adopting new technologies.Satya Nadella: Um, how do you think about... I, I feel silly asking this of somebody running a, you know, trillion-dollar-plus company already, butAmbition & Making the Impossible PossibleSatya Nadella: how do you think about how Microsoft can be more ambitious now? It's a great question. Um, I [00:29:00] think, um- I think the, the thing in these type of transitions is to have a conceptual model of how work can change to go after outcomes that you could hardly imagine previously, right?In fact, Kevin Scott has this nice line, right, which is, um, when you can make the impossible... Like, when you're making hard things easier, that's sort of one point of leverage. But true ambition is about making the impossible possible. So now the thing that is missing a little bit in all of our organizations is what is that new conceptual model of what can we build?What was impossible and what can we build? And I'll give you one example of this, right, which is I take great inspiration from sort of the people who were managing the Azure net- network. And they came to the... This was from even last year. You know, we were scaling. You saw that I, I [00:30:00] talked about sort of how we built in the last 15 months more Azure capacity than we built in the first 15 years.I mean, it's crazy. Wild. Yeah. Right? It's pretty wild. And it's the same team. So they saw that and they said, “Bob, this just ain't gonna work if we don't reconceptualize our work.” So they built... Essentially they said, “Our job is not to do Azure networking. Our job is to build the agentic system does, that, that does Azure networking,” right?These are the folks managing the 500-plus fiber operators managing the VAN, right, all over. And fiber operations ultimately is a physical operation. Things get cut, things get, uh, you know, have to be repaired. You know, we have fancy words called DevOps and so on. Basically, emails are coming in and you gotta go respond to them, take care of it.So they built this agentic system. They even have a character for it. It's called Miles, and it sort of does all this stuff, right? They started sort of screaming for more tokens and so on. And so they were saying, “Look, uh, we don't need a headcount. We need tokens in order to be able to [00:31:00] manage, uh, our operation.”That reconceptualization- Mm-hmm ... of what their work is, right? They, they basically took their work and made it meta, right? That meta work is now their new work. Mm-hmm. Right? In the ‘80s, if somebody had come to us and said, “4 billion people are gonna get up in the morning and start typing,” my model would've been, we need 4 billion typists?But we're not doing typing, we're doing knowledge work. So that, to me, I think is it, right, which is whether it's Microsoft or whether it's any organization, is to give ourselves permission to do new types of metacognition, meta work, using these new tools to change the outputs that matter, uh, and then really make the impossible possible.Sarah Guo: So completing that dot or the, the connective tissue across those, I think, is where a lot of the enterprise value will get created.Data Center Build-Out & Community ImpactSarah Guo: Should we talk about data centers? Yeah, please ask. Oh, okay. Well, uh, uh, w- we-- this leads nicely into the data center build-up. I always think, I- I just-- I'm just impressed at the sheer scale of the [00:32:00] build-out from Microsoft, but also everyone else, that this is redefining what it means to be a hyperscaler.And I just feel like that, that, that is at unprecedented scale on finances, uh, on the way you run the company, but also the communities that are, that are impacted. Um, yeah, just talk a bit more about what you're seeing on the ground, like when you visit your- Yeah, I think there are two aspects of it.Satya Nadella: Obviously, the, the build-out is, uh, extraordinary. Um, you know, nothing like this has happened, and it's great to be, uh, one of the participants in it. Uh, but you brought up the other part, right? I think at this point it's clear that unless we as an industry, uh, are very principled about ensuring that the benefits of all the stuff we're talking about are felt in real ways, uh, at the community level, right?Because this is not just a, a campaign, um, right? It has to be real, where people are saying, “Look, this is not ch- changing the prices on energy for me.” In fact, if anything, it's bringing down prices because long term there's going to be a better [00:33:00] grid, there is going to be more energy. Water consumption is, in fact, not sort of, uh...In fact, water is being replenished, right? You gotta really, you know, educate folks on truly what's happening, the cl- uh, the closed loop systems we are building. We have to invest in the training, the jobs, the tax base. In fact, the least talked about stuff is the amount of jobs that get created during construction, after construction.What's the tax base that's there in the community? And, and all this has to be real. Um, and, and if that is the case, then we will have permission. If it is not, we won't have permission. It's as simple as that, right? Which is, uh, we, we... I think we have to take it as an industry pretty seriously. Uh, I think it's good for communities to be skeptical, ask the hard questions, for us to do the hard work, earn that.Um, but at the end of the day, if there's-- if we can really be the produ-- Wait. I've always felt like in human history, if you use a lot of energy but also create a lot of value for society- The story has been fantastic. If you don't [00:34:00] do that, it's not been that great. And this time around, I'm a firm believer that ultimately if you do have a token economy that drives productivity, that drives economic growth, that drives broad spread, um, you know, participation, better health outcomes, um, then I think we'll be in a great place.Sarah Guo: Uh, and that's at least what we all have to be focused on. Yeah. It, it makes me think actually that with all these initiatives that you're doing, might be e- easier to see ROI in the communities first before in enterprise. Yeah. I, I mean, I think both sides. Yeah. In fact, it comes back together. It has to be the people in the communities are going to be employed, are going to be participants, uh, in the real economy, right?Satya Nadella: That's I think the question is. Like, if we- if the broad economy is doing well and the communities are doing well, the dots get connected. It's sort of the market forces are such that we will connect the dots. And that I think is it. Like, you ought to be able to see the evidence. You can't be about o- any one company, uh, but it has to be broad economic growth and broad [00:35:00] ec- you know, community permission.Elad Gil: Yeah. I guess I wanna talk aboutSocietal Impact & Optimism About AIElad Gil: what you're most optimistic about currently or what have you most updated your personal models on regarding societal impact of AI? So you're saying what's the, the, the- What have you updated most on in terms of societal impact of AI? Yeah. I think the, um, the p- the most, um- Critical thing is the first question we even started with, which is we need to tell the story and make it real that everybody has a real shot to participate as a first-class participant in this new economy.Satya Nadella: Right? That's kind of, I think we- in the next 12 months, 18 months, we need a way for people to say, “Oh, wow, I get it.” Right? There's going to be tremendous capability, tremendous amount of infrastructure, but I can see what is going to happen, whether it's the benefits like health outcomes or my ability to create a startup or my ability to run my [00:36:00] local sort of, uh, store more efficiently.It's just happening, and I see that, uh, benefit myself, right? That to me, you know, earning that permission in a path-dependent way, we can't wait. See, the one thing, Eli, that I've now learned is I think the world is gonna be very skeptical of tech and tech companies that say, “Trust us, we've got it. The g- future is gonna be glorious.”Sarah Guo: Uh, you kind of have to deliver tangible benefits. Um, and quite frankly, politicians winning elections, uh, because they have advocated for that. That will be at least my adjustment because without it, um, thinking that somehow... Because it's too important this time around. It's too much of the economy for it not to be the case So one very simple framework I have for, you know, what are, what is gonna be the broad benefit of AI, um, beyond the communities just working in technology, are, are sort of wealth creation- Yepit's [00:37:00] gonna happen in a ton of different companies, startups and large companies. Then you have healthcare. Uh, you, you had amazing demos today. There are companies like Open Evidence. I think that is happening. Um,Education & Future of LearningSarah Guo: education seems like another one that's an- Yep ... obvious good where we haven't seen as much impact as I'd expect.Swyx: Do you have a hypothesis on why that might be, or if it'll come? Yeah, I mean, I think this is where, again, how we think about education, how... You know, recently I met with, uh, the founders of Alpha School and learnt a lot about what they were going and going about, and it's fascinating to listen, uh, to how to even rethink- MmSatya Nadella: uh, what does education really look like. Because I think it's actually very important. Mm. Uh, and I'm not saying anything traditionally being done is less important, right? I was even looking at the, uh... It's fascinating to see. I, I, I forget the which Stanford class it was, uh, the, the Asian guidelines for CS something.Mm. Uh, because you still need people to learn. Uh, like it was an interesting AI class that they were making sure people were learning how to apply softmax appropriately versus saying, “Hey, fix my training run.” Mm-hmm. Uh, so I think learning concepts is important. It's going to [00:38:00] be, uh, critical. But the way we create the incentives, what are the credentials, how we value those credentials, what is the employment opportunity for those credentials?So I think that there's a complete change that has to happen, uh, given the way to get to information, way to educate yourself, way to continuously keep yourself updated has changed so much. So I think interestingly enough, maybe the next big startup and success story could be someone who builds a new university, um, or a new, um, pedagogy even of how to get someone to go through a curriculum and find economic opportunity, uh, that's highly valuable.Well, that has felt, uh, perhaps impossible for a long time, but it's a great note to end on and something that might be possible. It's still possible. Yeah. Thank you, Satya. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you all. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.latent.space/subscribe

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Hey HBs! Happy Pride Month! We're baaaaaaack with Fresh Ice by Marina Vivancos! It's a fluffy MM hockey omegaverse that we loved! Bonus Content: Mel's obsessed, golden retrievers and black cats, bad parents, knot sacks, Bus(c)h Beans, and so much more! This Friday on PATREON, Mel is telling Sabrina all about the next two books in this series FACE OFF and OVERTIME! They're soooo gooooood! Want to support the show? Rate and review us on your favorite podcast app! It super helps the algorithm connect us to new listeners.  Credits: Theme Music: Brittany Pfantz  Art: Author Kate Prior (her newest release MATED TO MY EX is out now!!)  Want to tell us a story, ask about advertising, or anything else? Email: heavingbosomspodcast (at) gmail  Follow our socials:  Instagram @heavingbosoms Tiktok @heaving_bosoms  Facebook group: the Heaving Bosoms Geriatric Friendship Cult The above contains affiliate links, which means that when purchasing through them, the podcast gets a small percentage without costing you a penny more. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this profound exploration of Matthew 25:1-13, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb unpack the parable of the ten virgins, revealing it as far more than a simple warning about preparedness. Moving beyond dispensational "rapture ready" interpretations, they demonstrate how this parable addresses the spiritual condition required for entrance into God's consummated kingdom. The discussion centers on the critical distinction between outward religious profession and genuine possession of the Holy Spirit's grace. With pastoral sensitivity and theological depth, the hosts examine the meaning of the oil, the significance of the midnight cry, and the urgency of both evangelism and personal examination. This episode challenges listeners to consider whether they possess not just the lamp of profession, but the oil of saving grace that alone sustains faith through the waiting period before Christ's return. Key Takeaways The oil represents saving grace, not perfect obedience - The critical distinction in the parable is not between those who stayed awake versus those who slept (all ten virgins fell asleep), but between those who possessed oil and those who didn't. The oil symbolizes the indwelling, regenerating, sanctifying presence of the Holy Spirit—the grace that comes through effectual calling and genuine conversion. This parable warns against mere outward profession - All ten virgins carried lamps and waited for the bridegroom, representing outward religious activity and profession. The difference lay in the interior spiritual reality—whether that profession was accompanied by the transforming grace of the Holy Spirit or remained empty formalism. The "midnight cry" represents both personal death and Christ's return - Historically, Reformed expositors understood the midnight cry as either the actual cry of Christ's angels at His return or the voice of God in individual death. Each person's death functions as their personal midnight that irrevocably fixes their eternal state. Readiness is not about sinless perfection but possession of grace - The parable is not teaching a fearful "rapture ready" theology where Christians must be perfectly sinless when Christ returns. Rather, it teaches that readiness consists in possessing saving grace through faith in Christ, which sustains believers even when they "sleep" (fall into sin or spiritual drowsiness). There is urgency in the gospel call - The parable emphasizes that the opportunity for salvation has a deadline—"you know neither the day nor the hour." This creates urgency both for unbelievers to trust Christ and for believers to share the gospel, since no one knows when their personal "midnight" will arrive. Calvin's insight: you "buy" oil by receiving it freely through faith - Though the parable speaks of "buying" oil, Calvin notes this doesn't imply paying a price. Just as Isaiah invites people to buy wine and milk without money, we obtain the oil of grace not through merit or payment, but by receiving through faith what Christ freely offers. Key Concepts The Oil as Symbol of the Holy Spirit's Grace The oil in this parable has been consistently interpreted throughout church history as representing the grace of the Holy Spirit—specifically the indwelling, regenerating, and sanctifying presence that comes through genuine conversion. This interpretation aligns with Old Testament symbolism where anointing oil signified the Spirit's presence (as in "not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit"). The crucial distinction Jesus makes is not about external religious activity (both groups had lamps and waited), but about internal spiritual reality. Just as a lamp cannot burn without oil, religious profession without the Spirit's grace has no sustaining power. This oil cannot be shared or borrowed; it must be personally possessed. The parable thus exposes the deadly danger of assuming that outward Christian activities—church attendance, biblical knowledge, moral behavior—constitute genuine Christianity when the transforming work of the Spirit is absent. All the Virgins Slept: Grace Overcomes Human Weakness One of the most important details often overlooked is that both the wise and foolish virgins fell asleep while waiting for the bridegroom. This demolishes any interpretation suggesting the parable is about maintaining perfect spiritual vigilance or sinless living. The wise virgins' readiness was not based on their superior wakefulness or moral stamina—they fell asleep just like the foolish ones. Their preparedness came from having secured the oil beforehand. This has profound theological implications: our salvation and readiness for Christ's return does not depend on our ability to maintain perfect spiritual alertness or sinless perfection. Even when believers "sleep"—when they fall into sin, experience spiritual dullness, or fail in vigilance—they remain prepared because they possess the oil of the Spirit's grace. The parable thus provides comfort alongside its warning: those who have truly received Christ need not live in constant fear that a moment of weakness will disqualify them when He returns. The Midnight Cry and Personal Eschatology The midnight cry in verse 6 functions on multiple levels theologically. Universally, it points to Christ's unexpected second coming at the end of history. But Reformed interpreters have also recognized its application to individual eschatology—each person's death serves as their personal "midnight cry" that ends all opportunity for preparation. This dual meaning creates urgency both for evangelism and self-examination. The parable warns that whether Christ returns globally or death comes individually, that moment will arrive unexpectedly ("at midnight," the hour of deepest sleep) and irrevocably fix one's eternal state. Once the door is shut, no amount of pleading ("Lord, Lord, open to us") can change one's condition. This underscores a biblical truth often denied in contemporary theology: there is no post-mortem opportunity for salvation, no remedial path after death. The time for obtaining oil is now, in this life, before the cry sounds. Memorable Quotes Every man's death to him is the coming of Christ. That's when our state is irrevocably fixed. And so there's an urgency here—an urgency of evangelism and self-examination because the midnight cry may come at any moment. The difference between the wise and the foolish virgins is not that one of them stays awake and one of them falls asleep. The difference between the wise and the foolish is that the ones that are wise are prepared for when the bridegroom comes, even though they fell asleep. The only way to be prepared for the end is to turn to Jesus. It's not about whether or not you've turned to Jesus and have become perfectly sinless. None of us are like that. It's about trusting Jesus. Full Episode Transcript Welcome to episode 494 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.  [00:01:10] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.  [00:01:15] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Looks like you and I need to get a midnight oil check. That's if you know, you know, that's what's coming up on this episode, and we're headed to Matthew 25 to do that oil check. We're still firmly in all of these beautiful parables that Jesus tells us, and this one goes by various names. You might know it as the parable of the 10 virgins, or if you're Petra. That classic Christian rock group who produced a song called Midnight Oil, which is absolutely a banger that that should be like the the theme song of this episode. If you haven't heard that song, go check out Midnight Oil by Petra and then come back and listen to us. Like, I wish we had the rights to that. We could just drop it in right here. But we're not that cool and we're not gonna edit that. So I'm gonna leave it up to you to craft your own version of this podcast with that great backing track. Have you heard that song?  [00:02:09] Tony Arsenal: I actually haven't. I, I came, uh, came into Christianity sort of at the tail end of Petra's Big Influence. So I know, I knew who Petra is. I've listened to a few of their songs, but they weren't mainstream by any sort, sort of, uh, stretch of the imagination when I was listening to Christian music. So  [00:02:28] Jesse Schwamb: this one's so good. It's so good. And it's right on point for our conversation today. So we're gonna get into all that stuff. The oil check, the midnight nature of it, the 10 virgins. What does it all mean? Of course, Tony and me, we have for you what I believe to be the definitive exegetical and hermeneutical reflection on the parable. So that's what you've come to expect from us and we're happy to deliver, but before we deliver on that, we got all the things we have to deliver to you, and that is affirming with or denying against something that's that point of course in the podcast or our conversation where we choose something they firm with that we think is. Undervalued, something we might recommend or conversely to deny against something that maybe is a little bit too overvalued or just not that great. So Tony, as is our customer, I say to you, sir, what are you doing? Are you affirming with something or are you denying against something?  [00:03:16] Denial Memory Blank [00:03:16] Tony Arsenal: I'm denying something. This is like denial. Ception is what's going on here. So, uh, first of all, thank you, Jesse for, uh, pitch hitting a solo episode at like, literally the last minute, last week. Um, I think we normally record at seven 30 on the Lord's Day, and I think I texted Jesse like 6 45 and was like, I just don't have it in the tank today. Can you do something? And he just hopped behind the mic. So that's a bonus affirmation there. But, uh, Jesse and I were, we're having a little bit of a pregame, uh, today, very much, you know, like five minutes of how you doing and are you ready to go? And, uh, I realized I, I had a really great affirmation last week, all ready to rock. I remember being super excited about it. I remember, uh, when I decided, or when we decided you were gonna do a solo episode thinking, I gotta make sure I remember this for next week. Right? And it has totally left my brain. It's gone. And, uh, it's, it's the worst feeling in the world when that happens. And I remember reading at some point, like, there's a biochemical reason why this happens and why it feels so weird. Like, it, it feels like you should be able to just dive into your mind and like search around enough and find it. And that's just not actually how your, how like your memory works. It's not, um. I think we think of memory as though it's like a big filing cabinet and you can just, like, you can just flip through the CAD catalog like long enough and find it. That's not how it works. Um, it's kind of like more organic network kind of stuff. But yeah, the, the, it's gone. It's just gone and I hate that feeling and it's gone. And that's what I'm denying is that feeling and losing your mind and feeling like you don't remember anything.  [00:04:56] Jesse Schwamb: I'm totally with you because incidentally, as we talked, we discovered we both had that experience because I had something too. And it's not just that, well, you know, we try to set aside or do a little prep on the affirmations and denials because you know, we come across something great in life, or again, the opposite. And you think, I gotta remember this because I wanna talk about this with Tony. And the worst part of that is like twofold. One, it never is great to forget something that you had or you knew you knew at one time, but it's all the less satisfying when it was something that you're super excited about and you're like, this is gonna be great. And it's that thing that you've completely forgotten that's like double the worst. So I'm, I'm totally with you in this denial. [00:05:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, it's, it's a really frustrating, terrible feeling. And there's not much you can do about it. And the, the secondary denial to that is it always comes back to you in the worst possible part of whatever conversation you're having. It's like you hem and hover it and you think about it and you, and I'm doing it right now. You, you sit here and you, you continue to try to talk thingy. It's gonna come, it's gonna come. Yes. It's gonna get here.  [00:05:59] Jesse Schwamb: Yep.  [00:06:00] Tony Arsenal: And then just when you finally have resigned yourself and, and the conversation moves on, that's when it comes back around. So I don't know if that's gonna happen or not, Jesse. If it does, I will try my best to ignore it, but I probably won't be able to. So No, I think you probably should get moving. So whatever it was the amazing affirmation, I don't remember. It can come back to us.  [00:06:16] Jesse Schwamb: It can come back. Yeah. I'm hoping that it does. And when it does, you guys just tell us you got, just let it, let it rip. Like even if we're like right in the middle of some deep, heavy, robust, thick theology, I just wanna be like. I, I can't even imagine what your affirmation was. It must have been like something pretty, pretty good.  [00:06:33] Tony Arsenal: I don't know. I don't know. I, I'm sure it was something interesting. I don't even, I'm  [00:06:37] Jesse Schwamb: trying to draw it out of you now.  [00:06:38] Tony Arsenal: Course. I can't even like, think of the ballpark of what part of like, what, what the category even was. It's just totally, it's totally gone. Like it never happened. Yep. It's, it's totally, totally gone. So I keep on saying, and you would think with all of my talk of like note taking apps and how important it's to keep a journal and all the stuff we've talked about that I would finally get around to like just jotting down in Apple Notes what my affirmations are and I just never do it. So. Yeah,  [00:07:05] Jesse Schwamb: I have every intention, but then I think, well, this is the record of them and I'll have it available to me when it comes time. The talk that's, and sometimes it just goes away. Has it happened yet? I'm still trying to draw it out of you by talking.  [00:07:15] Tony Arsenal: No, I'm just gonna give up. It's just gone. It's gone. That's just gone.  [00:07:19] Jesse Schwamb: That's, that's fair enough. Maybe. What do you  [00:07:21] Tony Arsenal: got for us, Jesse?  [00:07:22] Prayer and Anointing [00:07:22] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I was gonna say, maybe I can just help push it along, as it were by my own. So I'm also affirming with something, lemme just read a couple verses from James chapter five. Is anyone Among You Sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and there to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will save the one who's sick and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, they'll be forgiven him. I had really just the profound opportunity and privilege today to participate in this because. My wife at the end of this week, uh, which will be a week past when this is, this airs, is about to go undergo that serious surgery, which she spoke about in an episode, I don't know, maybe several weeks ago. And, uh, my pastor asked if it would, if he'd like us and the elders, um, to come and to pray over my wife. And they did so after our service today. And it was just a really incredible thing. Even I'm still processing it. I don't really know. Like the words to say with what I can bring forward is just like words of gratitude and gratefulness for this kind of living out of the scriptures. What I can say is that the way in which he brought this forward and the elders prayed was just so incredibly loving and genteel and spirit-filled. And I think which is a manifestation of, of God's love for us in this moment as we prepare for this great thing to give us peace, peace, and to increase our faith and to do so by just following what the scriptures say here. So my affirmation is maybe twofold. One, it's for this particular experience, it's certainly for pastors, for elders who make it their objective to care for their flock and to do so under the rubric and the instruction of the scriptures. So I'm grateful, and if you have those kind of pastors and elders in your life, I hope that you'll be grateful to them for them as well, and that you might express that gratefulness. So this was a really incredible and, and lovely thing, and, uh, fills us with a kind of hope and encouragement. And if anything else was a reminder of the feel, there's something different going to experience like this armed fully with the promises of God and asking that he would be glorified, that our testimonies would be strong, and that of course, that he would bring healing through it. So I'm ever so grateful and affirming what this passage and this passage put into practice.  [00:09:51] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And if you are listening to this, when, uh, when it comes out or shortly after, probably not even shortly after, probably for a couple weeks after or months after, um, uh, Jesse's wife Jen did talk about the surgery and the condition she's been suffering under. So, uh, she's part of the Reformed Brotherhood family. She is, uh, just as important to the show, uh, as Jesse and I are in terms of the support that our wives give us and, and the space that we need to do this. So please do pray for Jen. Um, she'll be recovering when you hear this, if it's anywhere near the time that this comes out. Uh, it's a fairly large surgery with a, a, a moderately long recovery time. So please, uh, please do pray for her, uh, and, and make sure that you're lifting her up. Um, we are trusting the Lord for good things, uh, for her. Yes. And uh, we're confident that he, his will will be done 'cause it always is. But yeah, definitely pray for her. [00:10:42] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Thank you for saying that, Tony. I appreciate that as her husband and. We are encouraged that we've said this before, but this is where our theology matters, isn't it? It's in the times where we come before the Lord in faith and in full trust, because one, there's nowhere else to go. He has the words of life for us. He is our life, but also because. In his son, this beautiful gift of salvation whereby his son is the suffering servant. So he's well acquainted with all of this kind of thing. And so stands with us in every conceivable way to be both so incredibly transcendent and above the nonsense and the noise of our world with full power and sovereignty over all things. And at the same time, to be fully eminent. To be literally with us in all the ways. In all the things. And again, well acquainted with our condition, including the grief and the suffering, the anxiety, the all of this, which we experience as part and parcel of what it means to be human, who is like our God in this way. And so we do sense his great and uncommon care for us, and it would be dishonest of me even in the midst of these difficult and challenging things to say that he doesn't care for us. He has good and he loves us, and he's making a way, even though that way be hired. So we're sensing even from, I think, following that time of prayer, that whether we receive the bread of affliction. Uh, or the, the water of of agony that we hear God's voice behind us saying, this is the way, walk in it, and he's with us. So I hope that's encouragement maybe to others who are also going through their own things and who isn't going through something, right?  [00:12:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:12:18] Jesse Schwamb: So we all have this great promise in the gospel that God is for us, and I love that James here gives us some practical instruction to that end. [00:12:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, for sure.  [00:12:31] Support the Show [00:12:31] Tony Arsenal: Well, before we move into our topic for the evening, uh, the internet tells me that I'm supposed to do this at this point in the show rather than at the very end like we usually do. Well, let's do it. Um, we are a listener supported episode, not like PBS, uh, not like other things. Uh, maybe kind of a little bit like PBS Yeah, a little bit. Anyway, uh, we have a, a pretty dedicated group of Patreon supporters who, uh, donate a little bit and sometimes some people, a lot, a bit of their discretionary income, uh, to help make the show go. And we've said before, like, we are not interested in providing special content or special gear or swag every once in a while. I think we did it once and we've, we've got plans to do it again sometime in the future. We'll send out a thank you gift to those who are subscribing through Patreon. Um, but we are committed to producing the show and making everything that we put online and everything that we make available, available to everybody. And really the only reason that we can do that, especially in today's economy, is uh, because there are people who support the show. And so we always want to make sure that we're saying we're thank you to those people. Yes. Um, they are a part of this show. I don't know if we are not gonna do like executive producer credits, but they're as close to that as you can get. Since we don't do that, um, we really wouldn't be able to do the show, at least not the way that it is without that supporting group of people. So if that's something that you hear and you no, I kind of think that maybe I wanna be a part of that. We would love for you to go to patreon.com/reform tears. There's no special swag, there's no early releases or anything like that. Um, but we would love if you would partner with us. Um, this is a lowercase m ministry, and if you've listened to the show for a long time, you know what I mean by that. Uh, we, we do consider this to be a calling, something that God has given us and we, we understand there's a responsibility with it, but we also know that we can't do it alone. So if you're interested after you've fulfilled all your personal finance obligations, your obligation to your local church and your immediate area, if there's a little bit left over that you're looking to spend somewhere on something that is valuable, uh, please do consider going to patreon.com/form Brotherhood. [00:14:39] Jesse Schwamb: And if you've been listening for a while and you've thought, you know what, I wonder who else is out there that's like me, that's listening to these guys on the internet. Guess what? You can actually meet some of those people. They have a little spot where they hang out. It's called Telegram. It's just a chat app, and we have our own little section of that app. If you just go to your favorite browser, whatever it is, you can choose and go to wherever you like, just go to t me slash Reform Brotherhood. And that link will take you into kind of a preview land where you can see the space where everybody's talking, and you can peruse some of the different channels, everything from uh, channels just for prayer, for a crusting, prayer to general conversation, talk about the episodes, talk about baptism, all kinds of things. It is, as we always say, one of the kindest, most charitable, most loving corners of the internet. Guaranteed. You can test us on that. So in fact, you should by going to t.me back slash reform Brotherhood, Tony, back to you. [00:15:36] Eschatology Shift [00:15:36] Tony Arsenal: Well, let's just slam it right into gear. We, we, we haven't figured out how to do transitions into or out of, uh, Patreon announcements, uh, or telegram announcements,  [00:15:46] Jesse Schwamb: right?  [00:15:46] Tony Arsenal: So this, I, maybe this is the awkward charm of the show, or maybe it's just the awkwardness of the show. It's just charm, Jesse,  [00:15:53] Jesse Schwamb: all charm. [00:15:53] Tony Arsenal: We need to talk about some things tonight. We need to talk about some oil. Yes. We need to talk about some lamps. Yes. We need talk about some bridegrooms.  [00:16:00] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:16:00] Tony Arsenal: It's the parable of the 10 virgins or the 10 lamps, or the parable of the oil flasks. Yes. There's lots of different things that it's called. Uh, it's what it isn't, it's not the parable of, uh, the 24 hour Jiffy Lube, which is what it made, what you made it sound like when you talked about the midnight oil check. Um,  [00:16:18] Jesse Schwamb: I  [00:16:18] Tony Arsenal: didn't even think about that. But yeah. This is, this is a good one. And I think we've, we've sort of. I've sort of observed that the parables do tend to clump around systematic theology themes, and they clump within the narrative of the gospel within Matthew itself around themes. So the last three parables that we talked about were all sort of like parables of judgment against the Pharisees and a, a lot of things like unconditional election and reparation were all baked into that pie. You know, we talked about with the parable of the lost sheep and the lost coins and the lost, um, the lost, uh, brother. We talked about how that has a lot to do with like election. It has to do with salvation and what the gospel looks like in terms of justification in the father's initiative. And we're moving into a section of Matthew, um, where Jesus is starting to teach on the last days. And so the parables in this section start to move toward ha to have more of an eschatological bent. Yes. We talked a little bit about some of the eschatology and the parables when we, we went through the, um, through the, the. Um, my brain just left me. It happened again, Jesse. The, the denial thing, uh, when we talked about the parable of the tears and the wind field and the, the, the different kinds of soils back on track, there was an eschatological element to that. But we are in like straight up eschatology Yeah. In these, these sections now. That's right. So we're coming to the end of Matthew, uh, our plan right now and who knows what the Lord has for us. But the plan right now is once we finish Matthew, to go back and visit some of the parables that are present in the other gospels. And there's not too many of 'em, but that are present in the other gospels that aren't necessarily, uh, present in Matthew. So, like you said, there's not a ton of 'em. Uh, we do want to hit all of 'em. And if there's, if there's time, and I say if there's time as though we have some sort of time constraints, um, if there's time we probably will talk a little bit about some of the I am statements and some of the things in John. 'cause John doesn't do parables quite the same way in quite the same fashion, but he does have sort of some of this. Allegorical figurative language baked into some of his, um, some of his writings or some of the accounts of Jesus that he, he, um, captures that are probably worth talking about in the seam light. So right now we're, we're coming up quick on the end of the parables of Matthew. Um, there's not very many left and then we'll, we'll keep moving on. Uh, that said. We are, it's almost unbelievable to say this. We're going to be coming up to the end of the parable series sometime in the next, I dunno, six to 10 months. Uh, if you've got ideas for what you think the next series should be, start thinking about those now. Bring 'em to the telegram chat. Let's start percolating those ideas up, right? And, uh, like a good coffee maker. And we'll, uh, we'll brew some goodness. How many more parables? How many more, uh, metaphors can I throw in there? Puns, can I throw in there? But yeah, Jesse, let's get started. This is a good one.  [00:19:08] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that was a really, I think, fine introduction. I always enjoyed this parable because it has some really fun, dramatic elements, but I think I, I really haven't really appreciated all the eschatological underpinnings that you were just mentioning. And when you think about it as we're, I think we're gonna soon find here. That this is one of the most searching and solemn parables, actually, that Jesus uttered, and you start to get a sense for that as we've just kind of been hitting them, one after the other. As you said, this one belongs to the great olive discourse. It's delivered by Jesus to his disciples on the Mount of Olives just days before his crucifixion. It's in direct response to their questions about the destruction of Jerusalem and the sign of his condiment coming and the end of the age. So you're right. I think this carries like unmistakable eschatological weight because it's not merely this fable about preparedness in general, which sometimes is where we go. Yeah. But it's really more of like a precise theological warning about the spiritual condition required for entrance into the consummated kingdom of God at the return of the Lord Jesus Christ.  [00:20:11] Tony Arsenal: Yeah,  [00:20:11] Jesse Schwamb: I think that's the full setup.  [00:20:12] Read Matthew 25 [00:20:12] Jesse Schwamb: We, we've gotta go to the scriptures, right?  [00:20:15] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:20:16] Jesse Schwamb: Alright. It's time. You want me to read it? [00:20:17] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, yeah, go ahead.  [00:20:18] Jesse Schwamb: Okay. Here we go. Matthew 25, beginning in verse one, then the kingdom of heaven may be compared to 10 virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bride groom. Now, five of them were foolish and five were prudent for when the foolish took their lamps. They took no oil with them, but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps. Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep. But at midnight there was a shout. Behold the bridegroom come out to meet him. Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the prudent, give us some of your oil for our lamps are going out. But the prudent answered saying, no, there will not be enough for us and for you too. Go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves. And while they're going away to make the purchase, that bridegroom came and those who already went in with him to the wedding feast and the door was shut. And later the other versions came also saying, Lord, Lord, open for us. But he answered and said, truly, I say to you, I do not know you. Therefore, stay awake for you do not know the day nor the hour.  [00:21:27] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.  [00:21:29] Assurance Not Fear [00:21:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, this one's heavy. And I just wanna say, kind of coming into this, right, I think a lot of our audience, and I would, I would include myself in this, um, we, we came to sort of like an awareness of faith. And I, I don't say that in a sort of tongue in cheek fashion. What I mean, um. I'll, I'll just speak from my perspective, but I think it's probably one that resonates. I came to faith when I was a, you know, a relatively young teenager, 15 years old, and, um, when you first become a Christian, you're not aware of all the different theological debates or even all of the major implications of the Christian faith. And I think a lot of us and myself, uh, as, as sort of the example when we be started to become aware of the different conversations happening in different dynamics and some of the more, uh, maybe third or fourth tier doctrines that you learn when you're, um, sort of being catechized as a new Christian, uh, catechized in sort of an informal sense, eschatology is probably one of those ones that comes along fairly, fairly late in the game. And I recall, um, when I first became aware of the left behind books, right? And so I, I came to faith in a large Lutheran megachurch, uh, that wasn't really as Lutheran as you would think, cup being a large Lutheran megachurch. It was very dispensational. And I think there is a sense of dread and fear associated with rapture ready theology. And I don't, I don't think all dispensationalist that, um, believe in a, a literal rapture of the church either prior to or following or in the middle of the tribulation. I don't think all dispensationalist fall into this category. But there are definitely dispensationalist out there that would emphasize being rapture ready. And you know, you think of like the song, I wish We'd All Been Ready, you know, and, and this, this sort of existential fear that the Rapture's gonna come and I'm not gonna be ready and I'm gonna be left behind. Right. There's an, the entire book series is about people who thought that they were Christians who thought that they were justified and saved and then weren't. And, and I don't think the book gives all that much explanation other than sort of like a general sense of like, these are sort of nominal fake Christians that maybe some of them think they're saved and some of them don't. I know there were definitely characters in the book who really thought that they were followers of Jesus and then they didn't realize they weren't until they were not raptured with everyone else. The only reason I sort of launch into that progam is I think that the tendency in most circles because of the pervasive. Sort of all expansive influence of dispensationalism in the United States, and particularly sort of this like rapture ready, left behind theology that is a, a major thread within, um, American dispensationalism. There's a tendency to look at this almost exclusively in light of that sort of rapture ready fear that right the end is gonna come and I'm not gonna be ready and. I don't, I'm not a dispensationalist, I don't hold to a rapture in that sense. I don't think you do either. Jesse and I, I think there's an element of this that has that same flavor that we have to acknowledge, but I don't think we should read this in light of like, you think you're gonna be fine, but actually you're not. So you better get it together. I don't think that that's the point of the parable. Um, and I wanna say that upfront because it is easy to read a parable like this and to, to become extremely fearful to the point that it actually shakes whatever assurance you may have had. And I've said it before and, and I, I will say it again, it is not, I am not in the business of robbing the assurance away from Christians. The assurance of faith and the assurance of salvation is the rightful possession and inheritance of all those who are Christ. And so I have no, no desire to shake or rob you of your assurance. That's just not my jam. Um, so I wanted to get that out there. Like I don't think that this parable is here. To scare the daylights out of us and make us question whether or not we actually belong to the bridegroom. I actually think it's here for a different reason.  [00:25:39] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I agree.  [00:25:40] Watch and Be Ready [00:25:40] Jesse Schwamb: I, I think this may have more in common with like the tears in the wheat parable that we've spoken about before versus trying to promulgate a particular understanding of eschatology. There's no doubt that this is calibrated to the period preceding the perusia. At the same time, the parable is a reminder that describes like the visible professing church on earth as it moves toward that consummation. So this is why I think it is important for us to talk about, well, what do we mean by these 10 virgins? What do we mean about the lamps themselves? What is this saying generally about God's church? And again, him addressing the question of what does it mean for that church to be consummated in his kingdom?  [00:26:18] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I, I'm, I'm trying to find the specific passage, but um. We also should not miss the verbal affinity here. Uh, at the end of the parable, when it says truly, I say to you, I do not know you. We should really read this in light of, um, the, um, the statements. You know, I was hungry and you didn't feed me. I was, you know, and you say, Lord, we did these things. He said, away from me. I never knew you. We really should read this parable. I think in light of that passage and that phrasing, I think that's, that's actually the punchline of this  [00:26:54] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. [00:26:55] Tony Arsenal: Punchline. That's, that's the point. Parable is that last phrase, and then the, the extra parable, the outside of the parable, um, payoff or sort of like explanation that Christ gives is watch. Therefore, for you neither know the day nor the hour. The point is not, um, you may think you're a Christian. You may think you're, you're on top of things, but you actually, you might be totally wrong. And so you better get your stuff together. The point is what, what happens? Or the point is the same thing as I think it's the author of Hebrew is like, today is the day of salvation, right? Like, do not wait to turn to Christ. Do not wait. That's right to trust in Jesus. Do not wait to enter the kingdom of heaven until the last minute. Do not wait because you don't actually know when the end is coming. And I, I read this when I, when it's watch, therefore for, you know, neither the day nor the hour. I read this less in light of, um. Like universal eschatology, uh, every single person that, that Jesus was speaking to in this original audience that he actually delivered this parable to, did not see that, like, did not see the last days. Right. Whatever the last days looks like. And I mean, like, yes, the last days is from the resurrection to the end of the age. So some of them saw those last days. But what I mean is none of these people saw the return of Christ, like the second return of Christ and that the last judgment. So he would, it would be sort of meaningless to be delivering this parable to those people. With only whatever the last things are with only the rapture in mind with only Right, exactly. The great judgment. None of that would make any sense. So I read this more in light of you never know when your day and hour is coming. Not, not necessarily like the day, like the day of the Lord, although that's true. Yes. There will be a generation on earth who the last day, the final judgment is also their last day in terms of their ordinary human life. But I think this is more of a general call to all of us, and especially to those, um, out there who are in the orbits of the church who are exposed to the gospel, um, and have not yet trusted Christ. [00:29:09] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:29:09] Tony Arsenal: Um, there is a call to turn to Jesus and to, uh, to, to come into the kingdom of heaven, to be prepared by coming into the kingdom of heaven here. That's, that's the main point of the peril that we have to land on.  [00:29:21] Bridegroom And Virgins [00:29:21] Jesse Schwamb: I agree with you, and I think all of the imagery here points in that direction. So even starting with this image of these 10 virgins, which of course you've been listening to us talk for long enough, or you've read through the Old Testament, you're gonna quickly, and I think cogently see that this is the Old Testament imagery of Israel as the bride or the covenant community. It's also of course, like the Greco Roman custom in which the bridesmaids attended the bride and accompanied the wedding procession when the bride groom arrived to claim his bride. So to your point, what I think is really interesting about this is that we're basically saying that this parable is not speaking of like strangers or enemies, but those who have made a profession of faith. And so even this like idea of the bridegroom who, who's without a question? Christ here, that's a self-identification that's rooted in like John chapter three, where even John the Baptist calls himself merely the friend of the bridegroom and a revelation where you are going already, where the marriage supper of the lamb consummate, consummate redemptive history. [00:30:19] Lamps And Oil Meaning [00:30:19] Jesse Schwamb: So once we get through the idea of we have those whom Jesus is speaking about, and even those who he's speaking to as those who have made some kind of profession, religious or otherwise, to me, where this hinges is in this idea of the lamps or these torches or or burning lamps, which I take to be like this outward profession. And so the question is you have all of them coming with these lamps. Lambs represent this external common to true or false professors alike. But I think to what you are driving at, it's whether within that profession there is a true and actual reliance on Christ himself for righteousness.  [00:30:57] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, oil, I think the oil is really key here too, right? Oil in the, uh, in the scriptures, particularly in the Old Testament. Um, but also in some places in the New Testament, oil is associated with the Holy Spirit.  [00:31:11] Jesse Schwamb: Yes,  [00:31:11] Tony Arsenal: exactly right. So if, if we wanna sort of take the symbolism here, take, take the, the situation sort of as a mixture of, of different kinds of symbols. We have these folks that have all of the outward things necessary to be able to light the lamps. They have the lamps, the wicks are there. Um, they're, they're sort of ready to go. They're, they're ready and waiting for a time. Uh, but what they don't have is they don't have oil, they don't have the Holy Spirit. So yes, we, we need in some senses about false professors, but I do think it's broader than that.  [00:31:43] Salvation Has A Deadline [00:31:43] Tony Arsenal: I think this is, um, again, is a generalized parable about. The, the fact that the hour of salvation, the day of salvation, the opportunity to turn to God, the opportunity to come into God's kingdom is not an indefinite opportunity. It's not going to be out there as a possibility forever. There is a day and an hour and a minute for every single person where that opportunity is no longer available. And of course we're the reformed brotherhood, not the Armenian Brotherhood, right? We're the reformed brotherhood. So yes, God has ordained who will come and who will not. He's ordained the hour and the minute of those who will, and he's ordained that some will never come. But that all operates on God's God's level in God's knowledge. And that's not something we have access to know down here, right? Deuteronomy 29, 29, the sacred things belong to the Lord, but the things that are revealed belong to us and our children forever. And one of the things that's revealed is that God calls us to salvation. He calls us to repent and trust in Jesus. And here in this passage, he is cutting us to do that, to not delay doing that.  [00:32:53] Personal Evangelism Story [00:32:53] Tony Arsenal: I think there are a lot of people, um. I can actually think of a couple really specific examples in when I was in high school. Um, I was, I, I don't do as much personal evangelism as I I did when I was, uh, when I was in high school and younger. I, I don't know for sure what the reason is. Some of it's probably my own cowardice, but I think probably just that's normal, that as you grow and you kind of settle into different kinds of relationships, you have a different context. But I remember a, a friend of mine named Dave, I'm not gonna say his last name, I remember his last name, but I'm not gonna say it, but a friend of mine named David, um, who. All of us were coming to faith, like all, all of our friend group were coming to Faith. There was one of my friends, James was sort of like the first guy who, he was raised in a Christian home and he sort of came to faith in a very real faith, real way. And he sort of brought all of us along with him and sort of one by one we, we sort of like, it was like Domino's falling. And we all came to a genuine, true saving faith kind of all right in a row. And then there was Dave and Dave just didn't like he, he with us. He did all the things we were doing. And I remember having a conversation with him where I was like, what are you waiting for? Like, what's, what's the hold up here? And I didn't have any, again, I didn't have any framework for like what apologetics were, I wasn't trying to make an argument or any sort of like, um, any sort of like persuasion. It was just a real raw like we are all loving this. We're all, we're all so joyful and happy. The lives are changing and we. This is real, Dave, what, what are you waiting for? He never had a real answer. He, he didn't ever make an argument against the faith. He was very clear that he believed that God was real. He believed that God existed, that the sort of the facts of the gospel were true. Like he, he, um, to sort of put like theological language on it, um, he had, he had a ticia and a census, right? Right. He, he acknowledged he knew the true facts of the gospel and he acknowledged the reality that, that those facts were true. He just never actually took the step to trust in Jesus. And I don't know what happened to Dave. Uh, there's another friend of mine named Theo that very similar kind of situation. I don't know what happened to Dave and Theo. I have no idea whether they eventually came to faith or not, but, but it was like, you guys never know when the day in the hours. That's the kind of person that I think this is pointing to.  [00:35:15] Against Rapture Ready Fear [00:35:15] Tony Arsenal: Not necessarily the person within the church, um, who has made some sort of credible profession of faith, but thinks, but like, because like they haven't stopped swearing yet, or because they still have lustful thoughts once in a while. Like I think that's the rapture ready theology is like. You better not hope that like that's the day that a pretty girl walks by and you have a lutful thought. 'cause if Jesus comes back right after that, you're really in trouble. Like those are, those are actually, um, again, this is, this is a caricature of dispensationalism, but it's a caricature that I experienced. It's, it was people who were being characters of themselves. Right? This idea that, look, you better, you better not sin ever. You better not be asleep. And being asleep means sinning. You better not ever sin. Because if you happen to sin right before the rapture, then Jesus is gonna leave you behind. Right? You're not gonna fly up in the clouds if you're not perfectly rapture ready. And like, again, not all dispensationalist are like that. I actually think most dispensationalist these days would probably not fit into that category. Right? But when I was coming to faith in the late nineties and early two thousands, that was the real theology being presented. I don't think that's what this is. This is about a life orientation of preparedness. This is about an entire life. Yes. That is prepared for Christ's second coming or for the hour of our death. And that the only way to be prepared for that is to be happy in Christ, is to be blessed, blessed assurance, like to have your blessed assurance because Jesus is mine. Oh, what a, you know, oh, what a happy delight like that is. The only way to be ready for death, to be prepared for the end is to turn to Jesus. It's not about whether or not you've turned to Jesus and have become perfectly sinless. None of us are like that, right? It's not about, I just got done writing this series of articles on John Piper's affectional theology, affectional Justification, like it's not about perfectly treasuring Christ. There are gonna be times where your emotions do not sync up with what you actually believe. It's not about being perfectly obedient or wanting to be perfectly obedient. It's about trusting Jesus. And there's only one day an hour that that opportunity closes, and you never know when that is, when that day an hour is gonna be. [00:37:26] Wise Versus Foolish [00:37:26] Jesse Schwamb: We know that to be true in this particular parable because of what's written for us in verse two, how Jesus himself bifurcates and labels these two groups. He says five of them were foolish and five were wise. So Christ himself introduces the critical distinction, not of course, with reference to whatever the external practice is, because both of these groups are carrying lamps, both weight, both know the bridegroom is coming, but with an interior character judgment one is literally foolish, which is the same contrast that Christ employs actually in the parable of the two builders at the conclusion of the Sermon on the Mount, where the wise man hears and does, while the foolish man hears, but does not translate hearing into obedient transformation. So I'm with you on this. The terms carry, I think, significant Old Testament fruit because in the all the wisdom literature, wisdom is synonymous with the fear of the Lord, that true knowledge of God, right? And that practical orientation, I think as you were saying, of one's entire life toward God. The fool is not like an intellectual simpleton, but it's a world spiritual category. It's one who lives as though God does not exist or God does not matter, or refuses in the light of incontrovertible evidence to come before God and to submit to him In this way. They are foolish or they are wise. And so again, I like what you're saying. It's not as if like they've just exhibited some kind of quick departure or they've fallen into temptation or sinfulness, but instead, rather, there's something way larger at stake here with respect to a spiritual category. And I think that's really what Jesus is after, as he's bringing these two groups apart from each other, explaining that essentially that they access the same things. They heard the same stuff, they had the same on the outward, at least the same priorities, but the true internal character, the interior character of who they were, was not compatible. These are not the the same kind of person.  [00:39:20] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:39:21] All Virgins Fall Asleep [00:39:21] Tony Arsenal: And this is actually something, um, that I hadn't picked up on before. Right. I think we can get into these ruts when we're reading and understanding, uh, the scripture, especially really familiar passages like this. Um, probably like at some point in the past, someone has taught it to me in this way. I heard a sermon or I heard it at a youth group in a particular way, and I just never really went back. The, the wise virgins also fall asleep.  [00:39:46] Jesse Schwamb: Exactly.  [00:39:46] Tony Arsenal: Like, like that, that's amazing to me, like Right. I've always heard this passage as though like, falling asleep is the equivalent of spiritual death.  [00:39:54] Jesse Schwamb: Yes. [00:39:55] Tony Arsenal: But the reality is, in this passage, the difference between the wise and the foolish virgins is not that they, one of them stays awake and one of them falls asleep. One, the, the, the difference between the wise and the foolish is that the ones that are wise are prepared for when the bride root clump comes, even though they fell asleep and, and actually, uh, they're, they're shown to be even more wise because they all fell asleep. Yes. Right. If they hadn't fallen asleep, then the foolish ones probably would've had time to go get more. But the, the wise virgins in this, uh. And not only were they wise in terms of like they had the stuff they needed, they were ready to go, but so wise that in fact their wisdom overcame sort of this happenstance that they were in a state of, of preparedness being asleep when the comes is a state of Unpreparedness, but they have able to compensate for the ready in every other area. And I think this also kind of like mitigates away away from the idea of like the, um. The, the emphasis of the parable here, the readiness of the par of the virgins is not based on the wakefulness of the virgins, right? Yes. The virgins are ready because they have the supplies they need. Right. They're not Exactly, they're not exactly, they're not un 'cause they fell asleep. They're ready because they've, they've prepared by purchasing the supplies they need, by having the supplies they need when the breadroom comes. That's true. Whether they fall asleep or not. So I think like this whole parable needs to sort of like be reoriented in reference to the way a lot of us have, A lot of us have been taught and understood this parable. I was always taught that the, the foolish virgins were foolish because they fell asleep. Yeah, that's probably partially true in that it's foolish to fall asleep when you're waiting for something, but that can't be the only thing that makes them foolish. 'cause it doesn't make the other virgins foolish. [00:41:51] Jesse Schwamb: Yes, exactly.  [00:41:52] Oil As Saving Grace [00:41:52] Jesse Schwamb: And that's why it's so interesting that Jesus basically doubles down or elaborates in verses three and four by saying for when the foolish took their lamps. They took no oil with them. Yeah, but the wises took flasks of oil with their lambs. I think it's actually, as you're, I think leading us into like the theological height of this whole thing, the foolish virgins took their lambs, but no oil. The wise took lambs and extra oil in vessels. And of course the lambs cannot burn without oil in the same way. I think what we're led to believe here is profession without grace has no sustaining power. So I know like throughout church history, this idea of the oil has been interpreted in various ways, in various forms. I think there's a lot of unification though on the point that the oil is more or less like a representation of the grace of the Holy Spirit. That like specific indwelling regenerating, sanctifying presence of the spirit imparted in effectual calling and genuine conversion. And that's why I think this has a lot in common with both like the tears and the wheat parable. But also what you've been saying about the time that is appointed onto a man to die, either for Christ to return or just for you and I to die. And so this understanding, I think is consistent with the Old Testament symbolic use of, like you said before, anointing oil is a sign of the spirit's presence. Not by might nor by power, but by my spirit. And so I'm seeing here like this oil is, I mean, is it going too far to say almost like a saving grace? It's, it's not common grace, it's not the gifts of the spirit, which the reprobate may possess, but I think we're, we're seeing here like that special sanctifying preserving grace, which is inseparable from true election and calling. [00:43:29] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I think that's spot on. While you were talking, I was actually just looking up, uh, what Calvin has to say on this. I, I think it's funny because I constantly am saying things that I feel like I'm discovering for myself in real time. But if I actually just took the, a little bit of time to read some of our great sources a little more carefully, I would run into them. This is what he says. He says on, uh, verse five, he says, some interpret this slumbering in a bad sense as if believers along with others abandon themselves sloth. And they were, they were asleep amidst the vanities of the world. This is all together inconsistent with the intention of Christ as structure of the parable. [00:44:05] Slow Down And Read [00:44:05] Tony Arsenal: Like I think it's clear now here as we're working through this and this, and this is the main benefit, um, of taking time to just walk through the parables, any, any text of scripture, but the parables is what we're looking at. Taking time to just actually slow down and read them. I didn't intend to get to like a whole discussion about Bible reading plans, but the typical, I'm gonna read the Bible through, uh, the entire Bible in a year that typically has you reading three to five chapters a day is the average. That's probably too much if you want to be reading for understanding. And there is, there's definitely value. I've, I've commented in the past, there's huge value in reading large tracks of scripture all at the same time. Like if you wanna sit down over 10 chapters of Scripture day and you've got the time and the energy and the discipline to do it, then more power to you. But I think it's not realistic to think you're gonna sit down and read 10 chapters of scripture and have good comprehension and retention of the 10 chapters that you read. This is a really good example of that. If you sit down and you read three chapters, you're gonna be reading this, you're gonna be reading, uh, another parable. The parable of the talents you are gonna be reading. You know, the all of it discourse all at the same time, all in one sitting. Um, it's not until just now when I slowed down to really look at these passages, verse by verse individually and take an hour to discuss 13 verses with my brother-in-law in front of a microphone, right? Then I realized all of the virgins fall asleep. Like that's the kind of stuff that you really only, um, you only overcome. The assumed teaching that you heard when you were in high school, 15, you know, 15, 20 years ago at a summer camp. You really only overcome that when you slow down enough to read things and actually comprehend them. So that's not much of a commentary on the passage, but it is something that I'm learning as we do these parable studies. Just slow down, slow down and read them, read them multiple times, read it over and over again. Um, it is totally fine. The, this is the last, uh, Bible reading soapbox thing I'll say tonight. Um, I think like, because. Of the influence of like expository preaching and like wanting to read things in, in context, and all of those things are good. I think there is this tendency to think that if you sit down and just read a very short portion of scripture, that you're kind of automatically taking that out of context. I don't think that's the case. Like it's totally fine to sit down in the morning and go, you know what? I've got, I've got 10 minutes, I've got five minutes. I've got two minutes before the kids are up. I've got two minutes before the bus stop, you know, before the bus gets here. I'm standing at the bus stop. I've got 30 seconds before the coffee's done. It's totally fine to open your Bible app. And read two or three verses of scripture, that's a totally fine thing to do. It's totally fine because you've got 10 minutes before the kids got up. Oh, and by the way, you've gotta unload the dishwasher before they do. Totally fine to sit down and go, I've got time to read 13 verses of scripture today. So that's what I'm gonna get done. Um, and, and then just think about those things like meditate on those scriptures all day. I just think there's a lot of values to that and that's maybe that's my takeaway from this episode. I know like that's not a takeaway directly related to this passage. That's good. But I think we can oftentimes. Have and understand that isn't right because we've been taught it and we don't ever have the time or space in our life to like realize that what we were taught is maybe exactly right. This is like something so obvious on the surface of the text. It didn't even take any real thought. It just took slowing down and actually reading the words  [00:47:45] Jesse Schwamb: right. It's also a good reminder, like we said from the beginning, that our goal here shouldn't be to torture every detail, to like press it for some kind of allegorical significance.  [00:47:55] Tony Arsenal: Yes.  [00:47:55] Jesse Schwamb: But to take it on the face and to understand in context what's being said. And by context I just mean the context of the story. Of the accounts of the drama that's unfolding. And it is pretty remarkable that all 10 virgins sleep, that maybe even as you start with the details might not be your impression that that was gonna be, was gonna be the difference here, but both the wises and the foolish alike fall asleep. So to me, the parable is not condemning sleep per se, but I think it's the absence of oil which the sleep merely reveals, right? That's the critical detail here. And so Jesus delivers that to us and that's why it's, I think, important to think about these, these variables about what the oil represents and the context in which they're tested with their preparedness. But it's not because like they had it almost times you get the impression, it's like what we're saying here is the wise had more stamina, that they were the ones that were just willing to tough it out, and they knew the bridegroom was coming. And so as a result of that, they decided that they were going to ensure that they stayed awake, even if they had the drink, a couple of extra cups of coffee, just to make sure that was the case. But really their sleepiness, which they both have to endure, is the very context in which proves that they do are not prepared by having sufficient oil, not that they're unprepared by having sufficient energy or stamina.  [00:49:18] Prepared Despite Fatigue [00:49:18] Jesse Schwamb: Well, with all.  [00:49:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, that's a good takeaway too, is, is we all, um, we all will succumb to temptation in this life,  [00:49:32] Jesse Schwamb: right? [00:49:33] Tony Arsenal: Right. Every single one of us. And even if we think of sleeping in this negative sense, which I think we probably need to move away from it, even if we do, I think the point that you're making is really good, for instance, between the foolish and the wises is not their ability to stay awake. So I do think that, I do think there's a slightly negative connotation to drowsy and slept here. Like I think that, I think it's intended to show some level of fatigue. Fatigue, maybe not like a moral right, maybe not a moral, uh, negativity, but there's a fatigue. There's something that overcomes both wise and foolish virgins in this parable. Fatigue and drowsiness overcomes them and they sleep. And it's because the bridegroom was delayed, right? We wanna talk about eschatology, right? This is probably also more a commentary on the church as a whole. The church becomes drowsy and sleeps right, and then there's the foolish and the wise. The foolish are the ones who are not prepared even though they are drowsy and sleep. And then there's the wise who are foolish, or the wises who are prepared and are drowsy and sleep. But E, either way, if we think of drowsy and sleep, even in moral negative terms, right? All of us will succumb to temptation. All of us will succumb to sin in this life. I would even go so far as to say all of us sin in every moment of our life in that we never love God. Truly. Yes. With our full hearts and souls. You got that right soul the way that we're, we're commanded to. Right. Right. So all of us become drowsy and sleep. The difference is not in those who pull themselves up by their bootstraps and tape their eyelids open so that they don't fall asleep. Right. I don't, I don't know if you ever like had trouble staying awake in school, but I used to, like I used to sit at my desk with my pencil under my chin. Oh my Lord. So if I started to fall asleep, it would like jab me and I would wake up so I could stay awake in school. Oh. It's not about like gimmicks to stay awake.  [00:51:20] Jesse Schwamb: Right, right.  [00:51:21] Tony Arsenal: It's about the fact that those of us who have trusted Christ. Have received the oil. Yes. So even when we sleep, yes. Even when we are drowsy, even when we are overcome by the fatigue that prevents us from, uh, from resisting sin. Right. Even when that happens, we still have the oil. We still have the grace of the Holy Spirit. We still have the empowering presence and the, the, the justifying reality of Christ's death For us, in my mind as I read this parable, that really is what it is, right? Get the oil, go get the stinking oil now, because you never know when the day or hour is coming. Mm-hmm. Whether that's the day or the hour that you fall asleep and you're not prepared, or whether that's the day or the hour that the bridegroom was, even if you're awake. That's the other element of this. Even if the virgins had stayed awake, they didn't have the oil.  [00:52:11] Jesse Schwamb: Yes.  [00:52:12] Tony Arsenal: So it it's not as though, it's not as though had they stayed awake, they would've had time to go get the oil and come back. They, they wake up right away. Like there's nothing in the parable that's like, oh, it took 'em a little while to get up. So that's why they didn't have time to get the oil. They, they didn't have time to get the oil. 'cause there wasn't time to get the oil  [00:52:31] Jesse Schwamb: right.  [00:52:32] Tony Arsenal: So the only way you're going to be properly prepared when the bridegroom comes is if you already have the oil and you're already ready to go. Regardless of whether you fall asleep or not.  [00:52:42] Gospel Call Get Oil [00:52:42] Tony Arsenal: So I, I think, I think we have to kind of close this with like a gospel, a gospel call here. Like we don't do this very often on the show, and I think the vast majority of our show are professed, regenerate Christians. I don't, I don't know anyone who listens to the show that is outwardly not a Christian, but I think this is a time for us to say, listen, if you are hearing the sound of my voice, be diligent to make your calling an election. Sure. And that both takes the form of what Peter talks about, where he talks about growing in graces and walking in, walking in the qualities of holine

ACOFAE Podcast presents: Heated Rivalry: "All romance feels like fantasy at this point." Shane Hollander. Ilya Rosenov. You know the names. You've probably seen the show, and the books are more than likely on your radar. It's Pride so let's let the boys have some fun as ACOFAE discusses book 2 in the Game Changer series by Rachel Reid, Heated Rivalry. A first for Laura Marie, (a sports romance!) Takes readers on one of the longest situationship rides ever as these two hockey players from difference countries and teams fall in love. An MM romance that is sweet and tender, as well as poignant and subtle, Shane and Ilya will stay with you long after the book is finished. Longtime listeners will not be surprised to learn that Jessica Marie has been all over this series and has the books to prove it. TW / CW: discussions surrounding homophobia For additional TW/CW information for your future reads, head to this site for more: https://triggerwarningdatabase.com/ Spoilers: Heated Rivalry (book and show), Game Changers (book 1), ACOSF Mentions: The Devil Wears Prada, Pose, Brokeback Mountain, Euphoria *Thank you for listening to us! Please subscribe and leave a 5-star review and follow us on Instagram at @ACOFAEpodcast and on our TikToks! TikTok: ACOFAELaura : Laura Marie ( https://www.tiktok.com/@acofaelaura) ACOFAEJessica : Jessica Marie (https://www.tiktok.com/@acofaejessica) Instagram: @ACOFAEpodcast https://www.instagram.com/acofaepodcast/ @ACOFAELaura https://www.instagram.com/acofaelaura/ “Lost in the sauce.”

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The visions you described in your journal and in your dreams are delayed not because of denial, but because there is still some development that has to take place. Click here for the MM donation link: https://checkout.square.site/merchant/D135FAXVEN2D7/checkout/Y67QJUO2WKX5JDCDGENK7UPU?src=sheet

Tiff and Nikki continue the topic of your practice's vision by discussing how to turn it into something your entire team believes in. They discuss believing in your own vision first, communicating it to your team, establishing consistency and repetition so everyone remembers it, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello Dental A Team listeners. I'm so excited to be here with you guys today. You know I say that every single time because I truly love what we do. I love what Dental A Team stands for and I love the podcast. and set out a long time ago to really, really, really just provide so much amazing, incredible information for the dental world and beyond. We have listeners on here who are not a part of the dental world. We serve all kinds of business owners and ⁓ healthcare providers and all kinds of people. So it's just really cool. And I want you guys to know how special you are.   And today I have with me a super special guest, someone you guys have not heard from before. I get the amazing privilege of bringing Ms. Nikki Mack onto the stage with us here today in our little podcast universe. Nikki, welcome. How are you today?   Nikki Mack (00:31) Okay.   I'm so good, I'm so excited to finally get to be a part of it. I'm on the other side now, long time listener, first time participator. ⁓   The Dental A Team (00:53) Yeah.   I love that you have been a long time listener. So thank you for that. And for those of you who have not yet met Nikki, you probably were not at our in-person event in February, which means you should get your tail over there next time so that you can meet all of us in person. And very specifically, Miss Nikki Mack here. She has joined our team. She is new to Dental A Team is what we like to say, but she has been in consulting in the DSO world in the   you know, general practitioner role, the family practice role, like all over the place. She's been, she has so much experience. She's been all over the block. We'll call her Nikki from the block from now on. I've got your nickname, Nikki. Yeah, there you go. Carol come up with a new one. But Nikki's, Nikki has been with our team for a few months now. We are just so, so happy to have you, Nikki, a wealth of knowledge. Your clients are already seeing massive results. They are.   Nikki Mack (01:36) love it.   The Dental A Team (01:49) loving you and you connect so easily. So everyone just give Nikki a huge shout out and come meet her at our next in-person event in September here in Phoenix. So Nikki, welcome and gosh tell me I'll do an icebreaker for you for the world here. I know, I didn't prep you for this. Yep, unscripted, that happens. That's how my brain works. So let's talk   Nikki Mack (02:03) Yeah.   Ooh, okay, unscripted. Love it.   The Dental A Team (02:16) Let's talk dental, we won't get too crazy. Tell us your favorite position within the dental world. It doesn't have to be within the practice, it can be outside. What's your favorite position you've ever held?   Nikki Mack (02:28) that I've ever held. ⁓ This is probably gonna come as a surprise or not. ⁓ Marketing, like doing the like B2B marketing and stuff. ⁓ I just, I love being able to get out and connect with lots of practices and being able to represent my team. You know, when I go out like on behalf of a doctor, it's super exciting. Cause like I love the office I'm in. I love the team I work with and the doctor I work for and getting to be the person that   The Dental A Team (02:35) I'll ask them.   Nikki Mack (02:56) like shares our office with the world. ⁓ It's just, it's so fun. So, and you get to meet new people, yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:01) That's really cool.   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you thrive meeting new people so I could see that for sure. That's awesome. What kind of practice did you do B2B marketing for?   Nikki Mack (03:06) Hahaha.   So that was my time with ⁓ pediatrics and orthodontics. Yep, the most. So yeah, fun events and things like that.   The Dental A Team (03:16) Awesome. I figured. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah,   yeah, we have a lot of pediatric practices and a few ortho actually. So I know the team will be picking your brain because marketing for pediatrics is a massive space to ⁓ unfold, we shall say. Awesome. Very cool.   Nikki Mack (03:33) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (03:36) Well, today, you guys, we really wanted to chat with you some about your vision and communicating your vision. So we walked you through quite a few times. And if you haven't heard them go back through and listen. If you haven't worked with your consultant yet to get your vision out, go call your consultant. We've worked through kind of how to get your vision, how to get there. And I think you guys might remember, I think it was Dana and I, or Christie and I, really chatting about how like your vision, your mission, your reason for being here isn't necessarily.   what is scripted on your wall that says bringing great smiles to our community. Like, yeah, we're bringing great smiles to our community, but what does that great smile mean? How are we actually impacting the people? And today we wanted to chat. I wanted to pick Nikki's brain here on how to communicate that across to your team. So your team actually believes it. And I think more than anything, Nikki, it's really how do dentists and how do you coach your doctors on   expressing their vision in a way that the team not only believes it, because I think there's a difference in like believing it, I can believe that that's your vision, like cool, yep, that's your vision. And me as a team member living it and breathing it, it's a massive difference. So believing it and standing behind it. And with your experience, the things that you've done and the coaching you do now,   How do you help doctors to really, practice owners to really take that vision and create it to be something that a team can move forward with?   Nikki Mack (05:07) Well, and I think a big part of it really stems from that leadership piece and having a team that values you and believes in you as a leader. And then the vision just supports that. But you kind of hit on it. You have to believe it too. If I'm the doctor or the practice owner and I'm unclear on my vision, how can I expect my team to understand it or follow it? Now you'll always have those employees that just value you and will lead wherever you go. Right. doc, we're going to be, I want it. But   The Dental A Team (05:35) Yeah.   Nikki Mack (05:36) Some need to know why we're going there. They'll do what you need, but why are we doing it? So my first step with a team or a doctor is usually what really is your vision? Not what you think your vision is. Let's talk about what is your vision and how do we use that to get ourselves where we want to be? How do we use that to support our goals?   The Dental A Team (05:56) I love that I actually are making me think of something that I heard the other day on is on a Mel Robbins was actually her book, the left them theory. So some of you guys may have heard this or read it. And she talks about, I'm going to botch the first name, but one of the Toyota brothers has the theory of five wise and ask it was forced like she is in context. I'm sure he is in context of when you're bothered by something or you have like a miscommunication or an upset in life, asking yourself like, why does this bother me but   As you're speaking, Nikki, I'm actually thinking it's so hard to dig to your root. why I think is for me, my quote unquote, why are my vision is it feels like it's my purpose. And I think we spend our entire lives seeking our purpose. And we're like, why am I, we've read the purpose driven, you know, books and all these things. And we're constantly looking for it, but realistically it's getting under the surface layers of your thoughts.   because there's so much wrapped around what you think it should be, how you think it should be perceived, how you think it should be ⁓ communicated to anyone. And so I wonder even like that five why theory is, you know, why do I want to change smiles in my community? Well, because, okay, why is that important to me? Well, because and really taking it so deep. I feel like when you feel that emotional tug, and then you speak from that emotion,   that's your why. And the people around you, I mean, I guess if they're the right people, right, if they're the wrong people on the right bus, they're probably not going to feel the emotional tug to it as well, you know, right alongside with you. But when you do finally get to that emotional tug why, I feel like people can't help but be like, yeah, let's do that. Like that sounds freaking amazing. And it might not be specifically my why, but I want to support you in it because I'm so excited.   by your excitement for what you're about to step into the world to do.   Nikki Mack (07:57) Yep, I think excitement is the key word there. You have to be excited about your why and your team has to as well. It's some of the doctors I still think about, you all these years later that I worked for, it's their why and how excited they were to fulfill that purpose, right? And we get to, you know, change the face of dentistry, right? All these people that hate going to the dentist and then they get to come to our office and now they have a different outlook. Like those whys that drive you.   they inspire your team. And that's that kind of key to leadership. You have to understand that piece and be super clear because that's what drives your team, I think, at their core too. Especially to your point, when it's the right people, you're aligned and you guys are just rowing that boat forward, right?   The Dental A Team (08:39) Yeah.   Yeah, and then allows   them the space your team to search for their own. So I know when Kiera got really clear on her why and the vision for this company, it was like, I can live that. And then I saw, this is how mine actually like follow suit or attaches to Kiera's and the company's why how I serve a purpose in this company based on what I want to do in the world.   how I want to show up and how I want to impact the world, I can see how my purpose is served within the company, why as well.   Nikki Mack (09:22) Exactly. Yep. And that I think too, when you're working at a team, because if you're a doctor or a practice owner and you're growing or you're just leveling up, it's challenging sometimes. And it's that drive and that why that helps keep both you and your team motivated to push towards that end result. That's why we see a patient through lunch. That's why we start a same day for someone who really needs it. It's why we do those things. And that makes it to where   the goal makes sense. It's not just spinning our wheels. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (09:52) Yeah.   Yeah,   and ⁓ working through lunch makes me think of, ⁓ you know, one, we've all done that, right, the freaking root canal that has to go through lunch every single time. But when you're attached to how we're here to serve and show up for our patients, working through lunch is a lot less daunting. I know there are some days that I'm like, heck yeah, let's do it. Let's go. Let's go. Let's help this person. And there are other days that I was like, ⁓ another lunch hour. Like, what the heck, but like, I still got lunch. I just took lunch after.   Nikki Mack (09:58) Hahaha   Ha   The Dental A Team (10:22) lunch or before lunch, like we still worked it out, but there were some days that it was like inspiring to help this person. And then there were other days that it was like, I kind of forgot our reason and our purpose. And it was more like it was being forced on me. And those were different seasons of practice and different seasons of, of life there within. But I agree. That's my point there. And I think once you have that, then you're literally, you're speaking it. And, and I think   Nikki Mack (10:45) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (10:51) Something that we often miss is the repetition that's needed in life for everything. needs to be repeated. We have to build systems. People, I think, think life can be so mundane and it's like routines suck. Like you shouldn't have like all of your life shouldn't be a routine. Like no, actually consistency is human nature. We want to be consistent. We want the routines. And when we're not repeating things, they get lost and they get forgotten.   Nikki Mack (10:57) Yes.   The Dental A Team (11:20) And I think Nikki, something I've noticed in coaching is that we'll key in on it. Doctors are like, heck yeah, let's do it. And then six months later, they're just in the mundane and they're like, I'm working through lunch again, this sucks. So how do you help your doctors and your teams to stay in their why in that vision?   Nikki Mack (11:41) Well, and it's funny you mentioned how you do get to that point where you're like, why are we doing this? You have to revisit it. So I think the same way that we talk about doctors and practice owners being clear with themselves before they hit the team, you also have to revisit it as a team. So one of the things I've suggested in my coaching before is like about quarterly or at least twice a year in our team meetings, we're readdressing that why and our mission, our values.   so that the team is clear. Because the day-to-day in a dental office is a whirlwind, right? And talk about routine and repetition. Sometimes it can be a grind, and that's a good thing, but you have to be able to circle back. And ⁓ what is that expression, slow down to speed up? We have to take a step back, and what is that vision? Why are we doing this? And is what we're doing aligning with our values, right? Working through lunch to help a patient, amazing. Love it, always wanna do it.   The Dental A Team (12:16) Yeah.   Yeah.   Nikki Mack (12:40) working through lunch just as a routine, because we're not scheduling well, that probably doesn't align with our vision and we need to kind of revisit it. So it's okay to evaluate our systems and our processes and how does this align with our vision and does it get us where we want to go? So I usually recommend absolutely quarterly is like my dream as your consultant, but at least a couple of times a year, how does this fit? Where are we at? Because you're going to have team change too, right? People are going to change positions. We might grow and get new team members.   And so we have to make sure that everybody's kind of on that same page and approaching it from the same place, I think is what keeps us ⁓ consistent and in that, you know, good mindset, that good position.   The Dental A Team (13:22) Yeah, and something you said sparked a thought. said, is this an alignment? like working through lunch to help somebody is an alignment. Working through lunch just because it's a routine, it may not be an alignment. And I think you keyed in on something really special there of really looking at what are we doing that is serving ROI and what are we doing that is pulling us away from ROI or just.   opposing our why because it's so easy in dentistry to get so like keyed in on just what's not working. So like let's just complain bucket and we're always working through lunch. Well, why does it suck? It sucks because it's not in alignment with what we said we wanted to do. That's why it sucks. If we said we are an office that works through lunch every single time, great.   we can be upset about it, but that we are in alignment with, this is what I'm choosing to do. But when that's not an alignment, that's where we get those upsets and that like rubbing raw situation. so Nikki, even like going through as often as you can, love the quarterly, love, I mean, do you guys want to talk about it every week? Please talk about it all the time. And Nikki is, yeah, it's like, bring those examples. What did we do this week? What did we do this quarter?   Nikki Mack (14:31) We're in.   The Dental A Team (14:41) that served our why, how did we help people? And when you start from there, you're inspired again. So we wanna talk about communicating your vision to your team so they believe it. Like what is your vision and how are we serving it? And how is that serving us as humans and serving our community I think is huge.   Nikki Mack (15:02) Yeah, 100%. It's how I think it establishes for you that baseline. You know, like we said, because we can always bring it back to our vision is what we're doing in alignment, is what we're doing supporting it, is what we're doing helping move it forward. And it's a way to not only grow, but hold ourselves accountable to, you know, the choices and decisions we're making, the systems we use, how do we reevaluate those and make sure that they make sense for the practice, the patients, you know, the team.   It's that mission, it's that values that we talk about that are gonna steer that ship, I think, yeah.   The Dental A Team (15:37) I think so too. And you keyed in again on like something massive is really how we choose to consult, how our company consults. Because what you just said is really looking at the systems, the protocols, the procedures, the things that we are doing every day, are they serving us and our mission and our vision and where we are going? And the reason Dental A Team doesn't pop into your team and into your practice with this massive cookbook that says A to Z, this is how you should do things.   is because you are an individual practice with an individual mission that's serving a different purpose than the guy down the street. And if we gave you and the guy down the street the same recipe book, it's not guaranteed to work. Are some things going to stick and some things going to work? Absolutely, 100 % hands down. Do we do the same systems and similar systems with each practice? 100 % hands down. But the autonomy in it is how does this system   serve you and what you said there Nikki is how are they how how are the systems and things that we're doing every day how are they pushing us forward it's exactly how we consult and you keying in on that is huge because your teams your practices Nikki are getting something really special from you because I know you lead with their why I've watched you do it I get to watch it on recap so I've watched your recap from your in-office visit you just had in Vegas it's   It just looked freaking incredible. And I know you know him as a human. You know his why. And everything that you did with that team served that and taught them to go back and see, OK, is this working to progress towards what our goals are for our vision and our practice goals, or is it detracting us?   Nikki Mack (17:27) Yeah, it's honestly, it's one of the things I love the best about being a part of Dental A Team is that we truly understand that every practice is different. And a lot of people say that because we know it, right? But I've worked in the dental sphere in a few different like worlds and specialties and, you know, like ownership profiles and everyone is so different. And that's not even counting demographics, right? You know, where we are, are we urban or we rural? Is it saturated? Is it not?   The Dental A Team (17:51) Yeah.   Nikki Mack (17:56) And I think that's why there's just no blanket answer that fixes things. And Dental A Team does such a good job of getting to that why. And why do you want to get to a place? And here's how I can help you get there that stays true to you and your practice and your identity. For me, that's kind of the most fun part is if we know where we're going, then perfect. I've got some tools to put in your toolbox and help get us there, but it's got to feel like you. I can't do it for you or tell you how to be perfect.   I'm here to help you get there and make it work. And I think that's why teams get on board. We're not asking them to just do a cookie cutter situation. The doctor's involved, the team's involved, and it feels like you. It feels authentic. It's something that you can present. Circling back to my marketing thing, right? It's something your team can be proud of and sharing that with the world, whether it's the patients in their chair or the oral surgeon down the street or whatever that looks like.   The Dental A Team (18:43) Yeah.   Nikki Mack (18:54) That's why it's so important. It truly shapes every decision that you make in your practice. And I love getting to kind of help that discovery and then finding out those next steps. That's so important and empowering. I love it.   The Dental A Team (19:09) Yeah, I completely agree. You circle back to the marketing and I, I love that kind of marketing too. I really do. I love the beat. I love marketing. You can listen to a couple podcasts ago. ⁓ I love the marketing, but this is why because to me, the marketing is that relationship build and that like speaking of the vision because when you believe in a practice, you believe in what we're doing. You want people   to know, you want to talk about it, you want to invite them to the practice, you want to invite them to invite their friends and family members to the practice and leave great reviews and you want to do all of these things and when you think about it, if you're bought into it, you're like, yes, I want to serve this mission too in this vision, you're showing up different every day because now I'm showing up as the person, okay, wait, back up, like I said when we first started, right?   I said, know, I told you, before we got on here, told you, Kiera, prior to knowing me in person, personally, she stalked me on Facebook and she saw, wow, she's super fun. She's always on Facebook Live. She's doing Beachbody coaching. And I did, and I loved it. I loved it because I loved the energy and I loved the people. And obviously it like forced me to work out. Kiera thought she was hiring this like,   heck yeah, let's go cheerleader who is just 100 % on all the time. But what she didn't realize is I'm secretly like, not even secretly, I'm a very, I'm a Taurus through and through, like I'm the bull sleeping in the pasture as often as I can. So I'm super efficient so that I can have a ton of time to just do nothing if I want to do nothing. So what happens is here, right, I become Tiffanie that's podcasting.   I become Tiffanie who's showing up as your consultant. I become Tiffanie who's on stage. Just like we all show up a little bit differently in the space of life that we're living in. And it's putting on a show, but not with that negative connotation that that sounds like. Like, no, I'm here because I want to change lives. But when it's just, know, Tiff on the couch, like I am a much calmer, chiller person, not as much energy as being exerted. And it makes me   It makes me think of this because even at the dental practice when I was in office, when I showed up as a check-in, I was the check-in person and I was the first person you saw. I was like, hey, how's it going? Let's chat about your kids. Let's do this. Let's do that. And it invigorated me. It gave me energy in life to be able to do those things because I believed in what we were doing. And the moments that that vision got lost, that we weren't talking about it, or that life got stressful, the practice was stressful, the bills were stressful, the   ⁓ refinancings were they were stressful. Those are the times that I didn't know how to show up like that life was hard. I was getting depressed and I was like, what the heck and it all ties back to that significance piece of having a purpose and when I know the why of the of the person that I'm dedicating my life work to, it gives me a sense of purpose, if that makes sense.   Nikki Mack (22:19) Nope, total sense, because it helps you show up. We talk a lot in dental about being on stage, right? You know, kind of turning that game face on, but it's so true because we are dealing with all kinds of things behind the scenes, right? Like you said, it could be crazy schedules, a clearing house, you know, gets hacked and nobody can get paid for months. And there's always some chaos, but the patients don't know that. And each patient that comes in, this is their first interaction with you.   The Dental A Team (22:25) Yes.   Mm.   Nikki Mack (22:46) And sometimes it can be so hard as a team member to just keep turning it on and showing up at 100. And it sounds crazy. I know someone is listening to this, like, I know she's not about to say what she's about to say, but I am because in those tough moments, knowing why you're doing it, it's like a power reserve. And it's how you're able to kind of like take that deep breath. Okay.   And we turn our game face on and we go back to it, know, my God, Mrs. Smith, we haven't seen you in so long. We're so excited you're here. How was your vacation? It's whatever that looks like as showing up as a team member. That's where that well comes from. That's that reserve. And it sounds crazy, but we've seen it. And successful practices, their doctors are clear about their vision and their team has bought in and they support it. It's their vision too, right?   It means a lot. It's a lot of people overlook it. I do think it's one of those like, I'll get to it. But first I have to get, you know, this implant scheduling down, but it's just as important as those pieces. Cause it's going to help your practice run successfully, even through the rough times, the tougher times. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (23:47) Yeah. Yeah.   I totally agree. I love it. Thank you. So I think this is titled how to communicate your why or your vision to your team. And I think Nikki, the how is one figure out what your vision is, what is what is the reason that you're here, and then just do it and do it frequently. Don't be afraid, especially when you dig into that like more personal emotional why. Even if even if this popped in my head.   I have so many doctors that they're like, well, my why is like to provide generational wealth for my family. Cool. Why? Dig one more past that because the the providing for people who you're not sure can provide for themselves. That is inspiring. Right. So a team might not get on board with like, I want to create a life where my kids never have to work. Like, okay, no, that's weird. But why?   So really attached to that personal. I wanted to say that because I do have a lot of doctors that are like, I'm trying to create generational wealth as you should. I think that's phenomenal. Let's go a little bit deeper and figure out why is that important to you? Maybe you didn't grow up with parents who seem to care. Maybe you had to work really hard and you your team's going to get behind those pieces. So dig one further. Do that five why. What's one deeper and then communicate with your team. It's incredibly vulnerable.   Nikki Mack (25:05) Great.   The Dental A Team (25:24) And it can be very scary, especially when you're like, I wanna create healthy smiles in the neighborhood, in the community. Like going from that to like, I wanna help save people from poverty, drastic, very vulnerable. But Nikki, I think just do it, right? Just Nike, just do it.   Nikki Mack (25:36) Right.   Yeah, just do it.   And honestly, I would challenge doctors and practice owners to find out your team's why. Why are they showing up for you every day, right? It may not be exactly the same as yours, but I guarantee you it aligns, right? And it feeds into it. And that might help even shape your why as well. Like everyone's is gonna contribute to that greater cause basically. Yeah, just do it.   The Dental A Team (25:53) Yeah.   Yeah.   I agree. Simon Sinek   says just do it. Simon Sinek says to ask the ask your best friend or best friends. So like the three people closest to you. Why do they? Why do they have you in their life? And when they say something like, well, I don't know, like, you're fine. Like, no, but like, why me dig deeper? Do that five why thing again? Like, okay, but like, why me? And eventually, it's going to turn from   what you do for them. You always answer the phone when I need you. Like it's gonna turn to you make me feel like I'm important. You make me feel. So it's gonna turn from the things that you do for people, you continue digging, to that friend is gonna say, you know what, I don't know. It's just when I'm around you, I'm really happy and inspired and I want to do more in life. And he says that helps key you in on what you bring to the world.   so that you can see what your purpose is. So I think if you do that similar thing, Nikki, with the team, like why do you choose to work here, right? And get them to dig to that deeper space, it does start to bubble up and you start to see the impact that you're already making on the world and does that align? Does that feel good? Does that feel like inspiring to you? Because that's probably your why and your vision.   Nikki Mack (27:26) Yeah, I love that. That's so great. Even in a personal life, I agree. I'm gonna take that home.   The Dental A Team (27:32) Simon Sinek, I tell you that guy, he's got some good stuff, always. Awesome. Well, Nikki, this was super fun. Thank you so much for being here. First podcast down the hatch, you did it. We're here. Good, good, you did awesome. Thank you. And listeners, you know this is her first, go leave her a five star review.   Nikki Mack (27:35) Always a gem, always a gem. Yeah.   It was so fun. Check. Yeah. Loved it. It was a good time.   The Dental A Team (27:55) But really, let us know what you think. Let us know how this went for you. ⁓ Action items, go dig for your vision, go dig for your why. Ask your team, I love that. Ask your team why they choose to work with you. Ask your friends why they're your friend. And then communicate often. You guys, if you're just communicating this, do it every week for the first quarter and then move on to the next quarter. And if you feel like, gosh, we lost it in between, do it more frequently. This is something that you just need to talk about all the time.   Go do the things. Nikki, thank you so much. ⁓ And podcast listeners, you know, go leave us a five-star review. Let us know how you are going to apply these things to your life. And then reach out to us, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com, for any and everything. We're here to help. Thank you, and we'll catch you next time. Bye.

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