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Al and Kev talk about the Wholesome Direct Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:53: Feedback 00:03:18: What Have We Been Up To 00:30:35: Snacko 1.0 00:32:46: Wholesome Direct 01:04:25: Outro Links Snacko 1.0 Wholesome Direct Wholesome Games Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:34) Al: My name is Al. (0:00:36) Kev: I’m Kevin. We’re back baby. This is the first episode back, right? (0:00:38) Al: They said they said we couldn’t do it, Kevin. (0:00:41) Al: They said we couldn’t do it. (0:00:43) Al: We said we couldn’t go on a break and come back because no one goes on a break (0:00:46) Kev: The they being you, I think primarily. (0:00:48) Al: and then comes back. (0:00:52) Al: No, everyone. (0:00:53) Al: Nobody believed in me. (0:00:57) Al: But here we are. (0:00:58) Al: back and here we are here today to talk (0:01:00) Al: about so many Cottagecore games like so many that I think some might just be that’s a game (0:01:03) Kev: Oh, a lot like they double. (0:01:06) Kev: It in the last five minutes. (0:01:13) Al: moving on we’ll see we’ll see we are we are here today to talk about the Wholesome Direct (0:01:14) Kev: Yeah, probably a lot of them we’re talking about the wholesome direct everyone (0:01:23) Al: specifically and a bunch of stuff in that not everything because it was an hour long and (0:01:30) Al: talked about everything in an hour long presentation we would probably be here all day and it’s already (0:01:37) Al: half eight at night that’s that’s also that’s also true so we’re going to talk about that we (0:01:37) Kev: and we don’t have enough to talk about it (0:01:40) Kev: ‘cause we don’t care about all of them. (0:01:46) Al: do have one piece of news that I want to cover before that and before that we’re going to talk (0:01:53) Al: about what we’ve been up to but first of all Kevin we’ve got feedback this is being sent in by Katie (0:01:56) Kev: Oh! (0:02:00) Al: of the show I have been listening to the podcast for some time now and it’s a highlight of my week (0:02:02) Kev: Uh-oh. (0:02:06) Al: not last two weeks so sorry I really enjoy hearing your honest and sometimes brutal opinions on games (0:02:06) Kev: When did we ruin it for her? (0:02:14) Al: and I especially enjoy how positive and how much energy Kev has on his solo episodes keep up the (0:02:21) Al: amazing work. There we go Kevin. You got a shout out. (0:02:23) Kev: Okay, I’m going, I’m trying to refrain from, you know, being sarcastic or whatever, putting myself down. But thank you very much. Sincerely, that means a lot. I have a lot of practice talking to myself. I think that’s what it is in my head space. Now, I just put a mic in front of it. (0:02:38) Al: I feel like the brutal opinions on games has to be talking about Shugadu Island, right? (0:02:54) Kev: Oh, I feel like there’s a number of episodes we could point to, including the ones we like. (0:02:58) Al: That is the particularly bad one. Well anyway, thank you Katie for the feedback. If you too (0:03:00) Kev: Yeah. (0:03:05) Al: want to send feedback you can do it on the website harvestseason.club (0:03:08) Al: There’s a feedback from there. Come send us more and you’ll get a mention on the podcast. (0:03:12) Kev: Yeah, all right. (0:03:15) Kev: You’d like right now, yay. (0:03:16) Kev: Thank you, Katie. (0:03:17) Kev: I very much appreciate it. (0:03:19) Al: Next Kevin, what have you been up to? (0:03:22) Kev: Boy, what do I– (0:03:23) Kev: Well, my internet has been out for a week, (0:03:27) Kev: so let’s start with that. (0:03:28) Al: That’s unfortunate. (0:03:29) Kev: Yep, it’s been a headache. (0:03:33) Kev: But here I am using not working internet. (0:03:40) Kev: But that’s kind of– (0:03:42) Kev: affected a lot of my gameplay, because so I didn’t realize just how many of my games are like online only. (0:03:48) Kev: Or have to connect to servers or whatever, like Zendless on Zero has a 2.0 update. I haven’t played that. Marvel Snap, (0:03:55) Kev: I don’t get that many games in this week. My phone’s dying, so it can’t– for whatever reason Snap just crashes on it now. (0:04:01) Kev: So I have to pretty much play on PC these days. (0:04:05) Kev: But Unite is gone, so on and so forth. (0:04:09) Kev: The one game I have been playing though (0:04:12) Kev: Unicorn Overlord, are you familiar with that, Al? (0:04:14) Al: I am. I’m a photo. (0:04:16) Kev: Okay, oh man, it’s… (0:04:20) Kev: So I picked it up on sale, it was like 30 USD, which is pretty cheap for a game of this size. (0:04:24) Kev: Um, it’s for people unfamiliar, it’s a strategy, real-time game. (0:04:32) Kev: I like Fire Emblem, but real-time. (0:04:34) Kev: And Good Heavens, this game does all the things I like in that game. (0:04:40) Kev: Um, okay. (0:04:42) Kev: So, have you ever played a Fire Emblem, Al? (0:04:44) Al: No. (0:04:44) Kev: Okay, but I assume you’re familiar with the concept of super-trust, right? (0:04:47) Al: Yeah. (0:04:48) Al: Yeah. (0:04:48) Kev: Yeah, okay. So, like I said, that’s correct. (0:04:51) Al: They’ve all got swords, that’s what I’m aware of. (0:04:54) Kev: And Unicorn Overlord also has swords. (0:04:56) Kev: Actually, Unicorn Overlord has a lot of Fire Emblem stuff. (0:05:00) Kev: It’s very much like an homage/love letter to a lot of strategy games, Fire Emblem included. (0:05:06) Kev: So, it has a lot of the elements borrowed from that. (0:05:10) Kev: that are like likely it feels (0:05:12) Kev: less like trying to knock them off and more become the wash / love letter anyway (0:05:19) Kev: so unlike Fire Emblem which is grid based this is not grid based it’s real (0:05:24) Kev: time you just send your units point A to point B and they’ll travel as close to (0:05:29) Kev: straight line as they can also they in Fire Emblem each character is a single (0:05:36) Kev: unit in this game you assemble teams of up to five characters in one unit with (0:05:42) Kev: front row and a back row so all of a sudden the complexity is through the (0:05:46) Kev: roof and it’s really enjoyable in my opinion right you got tanks in front (0:05:50) Kev: archers in the back so on and so forth and each character you can load them out (0:05:58) Kev: with different equipment skills and stuff and Fire Emblem is like every (0:06:02) Kev: character gets like two or three items that do almost just that’s basically but (0:06:07) Kev: in this one you can you can change their move sets so there’s (0:06:12) Kev: it like layers and layers and layers of complexity which is (0:06:15) Kev: really, really good. Yeah, I really, really like this game. (0:06:20) Kev: I’m at 60 hours so far. Yeah, good. No internet. So just (0:06:26) Kev: crushing it. But it is. It’s the arts really nice. Very, very (0:06:31) Kev: pretty. But but oh, great, great stuff. Um, yeah, that’s that’s (0:06:38) Kev: kind of the big thing I’ve been up to. (0:06:42) Kev: All right, Al, what about you? (0:06:44) Kev: Tell me– tell the poor pleb about the switch, too. (0:06:46) Al: The Switch 2, what? What are you talking about? Yes, yes, I’ve got the Switch 2 and I’ve been (0:06:52) Al: playing Mario Kart World. I haven’t had a huge amount of time on it yet. As we are talking, (0:06:58) Al: I have been… I was away. I was not at home when the Switch 2 came out on Thursday, and (0:07:06) Al: it was delivered to my home. I didn’t get back till Saturday evening, and so that’s (0:07:11) Al: about 24 hours ago as of now. So, yeah, I’ve not had a huge amount of time. (0:07:16) Al: Especially as obviously I had to set it up, and you know, I have kids and a life, and (0:07:20) Al: I can’t just always play the game. But I have put in a couple hours into it, both myself (0:07:27) Al: and me and my son playing it together, and it’s fun. I enjoy it. What I will say is that (0:07:35) Al: I love a lot of the… It’s a lot more reactive in terms of like, your character does a lot (0:07:44) Al: more while playing, which makes it feel (0:07:46) Al: a lot more real, right? Like there are more reactions to things. And, uh, so it’s really (0:07:54) Al: hard to explain, but there’s just lots of little things that they do that make it feel real. Um, (0:08:00) Al: the animations are all more detailed. Uh, when you, when you hit a car, you don’t now just like (0:08:07) Al: stop in the same way that you do when hit by, uh, uh, you know, a weapon you like get knocked to (0:08:15) Al: the side and you can actually (0:08:17) Al: there was one today where I was like hit it in such a way that I actually just ended up going up on two wheels (0:08:24) Al: and continuing to move. (0:08:26) Kev: What? (0:08:28) Al: Yeah, exactly. So there’s just lots of little things like that. (0:08:30) Al: It’s you don’t, whereas in Mario Kart 8, if you hit a vehicle, no matter how you hit it, (0:08:37) Al: you would just, you would just stop. (0:08:37) Kev: You do the somersault, you know, or whatever, yeah, uh-huh, yeah. (0:08:38) Al: Yeah, exactly. You’d just do the standard. (0:08:40) Al: I’ve been hit by something I have now stopped, whereas that’s not necessary. (0:08:44) Al: If you hit it, like, straight on, you will slow down. (0:08:46) Al: And, you know, spin off to the side. (0:08:49) Al: But if you hit it in certain ways, you can actually just keep going. (0:08:52) Al: It just depends on exactly how you hit it, which makes it a lot more fun, I think. (0:08:59) Al: And, you know, different weapons do different things depending (0:09:03) Al: on where they hit you and how they hit you and stuff like that. (0:09:06) Al: Which it is, it is, it’s really interesting. (0:09:06) Kev: Really, that’s fascinating. (0:09:10) Al: And it just, yeah, just the animations, like, you feel like the character moves (0:09:16) Al: the vehicle. It doesn’t just feel like you are one car, one model, stuff like that. (0:09:20) Kev: Wow, that’s the power of the Switch 2. (0:09:26) Al: Or is it the power of, like, 10 years of developing the next Mario Kart game? (0:09:31) Kev: No, no, this wasn’t possible on the Switch 1. (0:09:34) Kev: Impossible, absolutely. (0:09:38) Al: And I also like how, so one of the things about this game is obviously you’re just choosing (0:09:44) Al: a car rather than like choosing the body. (0:09:46) Al: The wheels and what’s it called, parachute. (0:09:49) Kev: Right. (0:09:53) Al: I quite like that because there’s less for you to have to think about. (0:09:57) Al: But what I do like is that each of the carts looks slightly different depending on the character. (0:10:04) Kev: Wow, that’s impressive. (0:10:06) Al: It’s not just like the base cart, the Mario cart, that if you’re Mario it’s red with the M on it. (0:10:10) Al: If you’re Luigi it’s green with the L on it. (0:10:14) Al: if you’re the cow, it’s grey with the cow. (0:10:16) Al: They put a lot of attention to detail in this game, a lot of effort. (0:10:18) Kev: - That’s all. (0:10:28) Kev: Wow, that’s impressive genuinely, like wow, that’s attention to detail. (0:10:38) Al: It’s really fun. Some things are going to take some getting used to like the controls are (0:10:44) Al: are obviously slightly different. (0:10:46) Al: The thing that’s knocking me off a lot is in eight and before, if you wanted to hold (0:10:54) Al: like a shell or banana behind you, you would have to hold down the fire button. Whereas now (0:10:58) Kev: Mm-hmm. Yeah. (0:11:02) Al: that happens by default. So as soon as you have it in the priority slot, it is behind you. (0:11:06) Kev: Okay, huh, I think. Okay. Sure, sure. I feel like at least one (0:11:09) Al: And then if you press it and hold it, it will just fire it. So I have spent a lot of time (0:11:17) Al: things because I was trying to have them behind me. But that’s just how you get used to it. (0:11:21) Al: And eventually you’ll stop doing that. But yeah. (0:11:25) Kev: other Mario Kart did that. But it’s not as common at the very (0:11:30) Al: possibly. Well, that’s the thing. Like, do I remember how things before 8 actually worked? (0:11:30) Kev: least, or regardless, it’s been what 10 years with our hard part (0:11:34) Kev: eight. (0:11:36) Kev: That’s how - that’s how video game historians - yeah, yeah. Now that’s fair. That’s how (0:11:39) Al: No, I do not. I’m not an idea. I don’t go back and play old Mario Kart all the time, right? (0:11:46) Al: That’s not my life. (0:11:50) Kev: video game historians chronicle things in the BMK8 era or the AMK8 era. But that’s (0:12:00) Kev: good stuff. Okay, how does - how does the free driving world… (0:12:04) Al: I haven’t done any of that yet. I’ve just been playing Grand Prix. I will say… (0:12:08) Kev: Mmm. Well, I mean, but you - you have between the phrases now, right? Like, that’s - you feel a (0:12:14) Al: So yeah, so I think no, is how I’ll say it. It is not like what I think Free Run will be at all. (0:12:15) Kev: taste of it. (0:12:26) Al: You’re not really driving between the courses. How it is, is yes you are driving, like you start (0:12:32) Al: Start on the finish line of the previous course. (0:12:35) Al: And then the first lap is to the starting line of the next course. (0:12:42) Al: And then this, and then you’ve got the second and third laps are on the course. (0:12:46) Al: It depends on what course it is. (0:12:47) Al: Like some of them are shorter, like baby park, and you actually have like then (0:12:51) Al: multiple laps around it, or a lot of them aren’t just like a single loop that you (0:12:56) Al: do a certain number of times. (0:12:57) Al: A lot of them are like the ones where you, you just have one long course that (0:13:01) Al: you do different sections of. (0:13:03) Al: It just depends on what it is. (0:13:05) Al: I am, I don’t really like it. (0:13:09) Al: I personally would just prefer the standard you’ve got your three courses (0:13:13) Al: and you do your three laps or however many laps. (0:13:16) Kev: » Sure, sure. (0:13:16) Al: Um, the driving between it just feels kind of tacked on and it almost feels (0:13:22) Al: like they wanted the open world thing. (0:13:24) Al: And sure, fine. (0:13:25) Al: I don’t, I I’ve not tried it yet, but I, I can imagine it’d be interesting. (0:13:30) Al: Um, but the all you must drive between the courses, the bit that is (0:13:35) Al: between the courses feels pretty either feels pretty generic and boring, or just (0:13:40) Al: feels like the previous course that you just finished and you’re like, I don’t (0:13:44) Al: understand why I’m still doing this course when I’m on the next course. (0:13:49) Al: And it doesn’t, the other, the other thing that I found a bit weird was it (0:13:52) Al: doesn’t start straight away. (0:13:55) Al: Like once you hit the finish line, you go into like, Oh, here’s the rankings. (0:13:59) Al: And then you have to start it again. (0:14:01) Al: And then because you’re starting again, you’re starting on the finish (0:14:04) Al: and it just feels like that’s a weird jarring thing. (0:14:08) Al: It’s like, Oh, you finished that race. (0:14:10) Al: Now let’s start the next race on this point. (0:14:13) Al: Like where you just finished, like it just, it feels like an idea that someone (0:14:17) Al: had, and then they went, yeah, let’s do that. (0:14:20) Al: But they never really did anything with it. (0:14:22) Al: And it almost would have felt more realistic or more interesting. (0:14:28) Al: If it just, the race hadn’t stopped at any point, or maybe if it, if you have. (0:14:35) Al: You have to wait for everyone else to get there, like, if you just like stayed in (0:14:40) Al: position at that point, and waited for everyone to catch up, but the fact that (0:14:41) Kev: Yeah, in that way, kind of– (0:14:46) Al: it goes like, Oh, now we’re going to like cut to this other screen, like they do in (0:14:50) Al: previous Mario carts, where you show the rankings, it almost defeats the purpose (0:14:54) Al: of then, then driving between the two courses. (0:14:57) Kev: Yeah, that’s so weird to me because, yeah, that doesn’t from the way it was described, like, that would have been, you know, what I would have thought, right? Like, you there, you know, you hit the finish line and then you just keep driving and maybe ranking is on the side or something. (0:14:57) Al: It’s like, well, what happened, what happened in that time? (0:15:00) Al: Because now I’m back on the finish line. (0:15:16) Al: 100% why I expected. And I guess the reason they don’t do that is they want everyone to catch up (0:15:19) Kev: That’s wild. (0:15:21) Al: so that you’re all starting at the same time for the next race. Sure, fine. But I feel like you (0:15:25) Kev: But, okay. (0:15:27) Kev: Yeah, but what’s the point? Like, that’s baffling to me. (0:15:28) Al: could have done that transition better, right? I don’t– I understand why they want something (0:15:34) Kev: Um… (0:15:37) Al: like this. It feels like it’s another mode, and I feel like they should have kept Grand Prix (0:15:41) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:15:44) Al: as it was. And then this was like (0:15:45) Kev: Yeah. (0:15:47) Al: a new type of tour. A grand tour instead of a grand prix. I’m not saying this is bad, (0:15:48) Kev: Yeah, that’s what they should have done. Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. There you go. (0:15:56) Al: I’m saying I don’t like that this is instead of what we had before. (0:16:00) Kev: Right, right. I get that. Yeah, from what you’re describing, it doesn’t… (0:16:05) Kev: Yeah, it sounds like they fumbled that execution just a little bit. (0:16:09) Kev: And if you’re not here completely removing the standard Grand Prix for that, like, that’s a problem. That’s rough. (0:16:14) Al: Exactly. (0:16:16) Al: Exactly. (0:16:17) Al: Exactly. (0:16:17) Kev: Well, we’ll see. Like, I mean, I… I mean, I personally think we’re going to get DLCs that are just going to be standard Grand Prix-type modes. (0:16:19) Al: We will see. (0:16:30) Al: Interesting. I can’t see them not doing DLC for this. For two reasons, one, they did two sets of DLC for the previous game, and two… (0:16:31) Kev: Because… (0:16:35) Kev: Right, exactly, right? (0:16:40) Kev: Mm-hmm. And DLC for the remastered version of the game, that DLC. Yeah. (0:16:46) Al: Well, yeah, that was the second one. But anyway, secondly, it doesn’t feel like there’s enough races, because you have, like, eight. (0:16:56) Al: And it doesn’t feel like (0:17:00) Al: enough to me. I’m not regretting buying the game, especially because I got it in (0:17:01) Kev: Not anymore (0:17:05) Kev: Yeah (0:17:06) Al: the bundle, right? But I totally get why people are like, Oh, that feels like a lot (0:17:10) Al: of money for eight, eight grand prix. Especially when like, the preview, like, I don’t, I’m (0:17:18) Al: not expecting it necessarily will be free DLC. And obviously people complain about that, (0:17:23) Al: right? They’re like, Oh, you’re charging us $80 and then you’re also charging us more (0:17:24) Kev: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah, that’s what I suspect too. (0:17:27) Al: courses. But I can (0:17:30) Al: see the DLC being reasonably cheap, and it’s just like $10 or whatever, right? (0:17:36) Al: But it just, yeah, eight just feels, eight isn’t even as many as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe had. Eight (0:17:42) Al: Deluxe had 10. And so eight had eight, of course. Mario Kart 8 had eight courses, and then they (0:17:44) Kev: Yeah, yeah (0:17:48) Kev: Yeah (0:17:51) Al: added on eight grumpries, sorry, and then they added on two, I think, for DLC initially. And then that (0:17:56) Kev: - DLC, that’s correct. (0:17:57) Kev: - Yeah. (0:17:57) Al: That was all bundled together as Mario Kart 8 delivered. (0:18:00) Al: So Mario Kart 8 Deluxe had 10 and then they doubled in the other DLC, yeah. (0:18:00) Kev: - And then they doubled the number. (0:18:05) Al: So it just feels a little bit meh that we’re not even, we’ve not even got as many races as Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. (0:18:12) Kev: Yeah. Yeah, that’s fair, right? Like it’s, I think the pain point is just this, the way you’ve described how they fumbled their new Grand Prix version, right? Because like I could, I could live with eight cups or whatever, if it was the standard Grand Prix that, you know, you could just do ad nauseam like, you know, other Mario karts and it’d be fine. (0:18:12) Al: And then this is more expensive. (0:18:15) Al: None of that, none of that feels good. (0:18:43) Kev: But if you’re replacing that and given something that feels a little worse or a little awkward, yeah, it’s going to be rough. (0:18:51) Al: And let me get and let me point out the courses are really good. (0:18:55) Kev: Sure. Yeah. Are there any, any new ones you’re fond of that you’ve seen so far? (0:18:57) Al: And like. (0:19:02) Al: The the one I particularly like, obviously, I’ve not done them all. (0:19:06) Al: And I’ve not done them all yet, but the one that I’m particularly (0:19:10) Al: enjoying is the Donkey Kong one, I can’t remember what it’s called. (0:19:12) Kev: hmm is uh I don’t know which one because there’s obviously been a handful or if it’s a new one but uh okay (0:19:18) Al: Yeah, let me check. (0:19:20) Al: I think it’s a new one. (0:19:21) Al: And that I think is really fun. (0:19:25) Kev: oh yeah they saw they showed that one in the trailer first yeah that one looked cool (0:19:32) Al: You’re essentially it’s one of the ones that’s not like laps. (0:19:35) Al: It’s one specific course and you end at the end. (0:19:39) Al: And what I really like it is you’re essentially going through a Donkey Kong level, right? (0:19:44) Al: Like you’re going up this course and then at the end at the top is a robotic Donkey (0:19:46) Kev: Really? That’s cool. (0:19:51) Al: Kong, throwing barrels down at you. (0:19:53) Kev: Oh, that’s so cool. (0:19:55) Al: So I really like that and there’s like lots of stuff to avoid and there’s bouncy pads (0:20:01) Al: and stuff like that. (0:20:03) Kev: That’s so cool (0:20:06) Kev: And I can’t wait to check that out (0:20:08) Kev: But I mean, obviously we’re nitpicking but still Mario Kart, right? Like it’s still the overall good (0:20:12) Al: Yeah, I don’t regret it. I obviously want the bundle, but if I paid full price for this, (0:20:18) Al: I still wouldn’t be regretting it. It is still really good fun and it’s still going to sell (0:20:20) Kev: Yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely. And cow is playable. Yep. Wait, really? That’s hilarious. That’s incredible. (0:20:22) Al: like bonkers. But yeah, I mean, and Caro is one of the best characters to actually play (0:20:30) Al: as. It’s one of the meta characters. It is, yeah. So yeah, I’m enjoying it. I get why (0:20:37) Kev: Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Mm-hmm. Well, that’ll be– that’s awesome. (0:20:42) Al: people might be frustrated with it and I haven’t tried everything in it yet, so I guess (0:20:47) Al: we’ll see. (0:20:50) Kev: Can’t wait to hear more people. I haven’t heard much about it, (0:20:54) Kev: but I’m obviously interested in the free roam mode or whatever. But good stuff. (0:21:04) Kev: How was vacation world not– how was touching grass? (0:21:07) Al: Yeah, I wasn’t really on holiday. I was still working. In fact, I was working more than (0:21:12) Kev: Oh, were you? (0:21:13) Al: I normally do. I was just doing it in a different place. But I didn’t have my kids, so it was (0:21:15) Kev: Oh, that was me this week, too. (0:21:21) Al: relaxing in some way. No, I had fun. It was a little bit frustrating on the Thursday at (0:21:21) Kev: Mm-hmm. (0:21:27) Al: the end to be like, “Everyone’s getting their Switch too, and mine’s at home. I just can’t (0:21:30) Al: get it.” But it was only two days. It was only two days, yeah. But it wasn’t even (0:21:30) Kev: mmm your squid word and patrick and sponger outside (0:21:37) Al: like it feels worse than the people who just weren’t getting it, I feel, right? Because (0:21:42) Kev: yeah yeah yeah yeah (0:21:42) Al: you’re like, “Oh yeah, that’s annoying, and I don’t have it, and I feel like I’m missing (0:21:46) Al: out.” But I was like, “I have paid money, and I have had one delivered to me. It’s just (0:21:51) Kev: I shouldn’t be missing out (0:21:52) Al: I am not where it is.” (0:21:55) Kev: oh there yeah I can see that that’s funny yeah obviously I haven’t gotten my (0:22:00) Kev: i’ll probably have or well not mine i’m getting one for calvin next week is a little late birthday (0:22:05) Kev: present um so i’ll be able to join the ranks of people driving his cow and talking about it (0:22:16) Kev: 24 racers that’s insane (0:22:16) Al: um it is and it does it does mean that you like especially the there’s a lot of kind of I think (0:22:24) Al: they might need to do some rebalancing in terms of how things work especially like the rubber (0:22:28) Al: banding and stuff like that because like if you don’t if you if you don’t get up to first place (0:22:30) Kev: Oh, yeah (0:22:33) Al: quickly you’re probably not going to stay there uh um the the middle just feels absolutely insane (0:22:36) Kev: Oh, that’s good. Oh, that’s good stuff. I (0:22:41) Al: just now. So, yeah. (0:22:43) Kev: Can’t you know back in back in the old days there are eight racers (0:22:55) Kev: It’s crazy to think like there are some chunks with that many characters (0:22:59) Al: You have to have two whole pages to view everyone. (0:23:00) Kev: in a race (0:23:03) Kev: The rankings, oh my goodness. Oh, that’s incredible. Oh (0:23:10) Kev: Good time (0:23:12) Al: The other thing I’ve tried out on my Switch 2 is Pokemon Violet, and let me tell you, (0:23:18) Al: obviously if you didn’t like the game before, you’re not going to like the game suddenly (0:23:20) Kev: Right, it doesn’t fix a lot of the core design issues, but yeah. (0:23:21) Al: now that it’s running at a decent speed. (0:23:24) Al: Exactly, it’s still the same game, but my word is incredible. (0:23:29) Al: If you like the game, it is an incredible upgrade, just so good. (0:23:36) Kev: - Mm-hmm, but yeah, yeah, I’ll sit. (0:23:41) Al: It drives me insane whenever I see anyone talking about this and people will reply and (0:23:45) Al: be like, “Oh, it’s $500 to get the game how it should have been.” (0:23:49) Al: I don’t shut up. (0:23:50) Al: I don’t care. (0:23:51) Al: It doesn’t matter. (0:23:52) Al: Yeah, you don’t like it. (0:23:53) Al: Don’t play it. (0:23:54) Al: Don’t buy this. (0:23:55) Al: Shut up, right? (0:23:56) Al: Let me enjoy the fact that this game now runs incredibly. (0:23:59) Al: And you know what I’m most excited for with this is how well I think the new game’s going (0:24:05) Al: to run. (0:24:06) Al: Because there’s no way it will run worse than this, right? (0:24:10) Kev: Well, well. (0:24:10) Al: Because well, no, no, no, let me, let me, let me. (0:24:13) Al: So my point is, right, like it is a clearly a much more small and focused world, right? (0:24:19) Al: And one of the big issues of this game was the fact that the world is like all loaded (0:24:23) Al: at once. (0:24:24) Kev: Oh, oh you’re talking about ZA. I thought you meant yeah. Okay. Oh no. Yeah. Yes (0:24:25) Al: Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, I’m not even thinking about that. (0:24:29) Al: just now. Not even thinking about that just now. (0:24:30) Kev: Yeah, ZA is gonna be great. Yeah. Sure sure sure. Yeah, that’s fine (0:24:34) Al: And so if this game runs this well, like surely that game will run just as well. And (0:24:40) Al: it’s going to be so good. And I think it looks, it looks better, right? Like a lot of the (0:24:45) Al: thing about this game is that it just looks bland and meh. And yeah, the character models (0:24:46) Kev: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. (0:24:51) Al: don’t look amazing in the new game, but I don’t really care about that, right? Like everything (0:24:55) Al: else in my opinion looks a lot nicer, kind of like the, you know, the (0:24:59) Al: bright colours in the night. I think the night time in particular is going to look really good in that game, especially on (0:25:04) Kev: I agree. Yeah, that is nice, right? Because, like, okay, obviously, we all know I’m unknown, (0:25:12) Kev: Scarlet Violet, Disparage or Dissenter, whatever you want to call it, right? I’m critical. (0:25:16) Al: For fair reasons, I’ve like, I’ve not, I’ve never, I’ve never said that your reasons are not the totally fair reasons. (0:25:18) Kev: Just a little bit critical. Like you said, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, you know, there’s a lot of design choices. (0:25:30) Kev: Design Choices. (0:25:32) Kev: I don’t like other people who I like. (0:25:34) Kev: It’s not fixing those issues, but like I think just how poorly it ran. (0:25:44) Kev: You know that like I’m an Nintendo fan. (0:25:46) Kev: I’m a Pokemon fan. (0:25:48) Kev: I don’t care about technical stuff, generally speaking, right? (0:25:52) Kev: But like it was just so bad that even even someone like me, it felt embarrassing. (0:25:58) Kev: Like it was rough. (0:26:00) Kev: So it’s nice to have at least that improved. (0:26:01) Al: No one, no one defends it. Right? Like with, with other, with other games, like Legends, (0:26:08) Al: like some of us are like, actually, I like how it looks, right? Like I, you know, I don’t, (0:26:10) Kev: Yeah (0:26:12) Al: I think that a lot of that is down to taste, but with, with the performance issues in this (0:26:14) Kev: Sure (0:26:17) Al: game, it was just embarrassing. Nobody justified it. And if anybody even tried to, you’d be (0:26:19) Kev: It would nope, yeah, yeah (0:26:22) Al: like, come on, like let’s be real here. You can like the game and still admit how terrible (0:26:28) Al: the performances. Whereas now, it’s just… (0:26:29) Kev: Yep (0:26:33) Kev: Yeah, it’s crazy I’ve seen clips online it’s wild the difference (0:26:38) Kev: I genuinely did. (0:26:42) Kev: I did not think it would upgrade that much. (0:26:44) Al: Yeah. And that’s handheld as well, not even docked. In handheld, it feels incredible. (0:26:47) Kev: That’s crazy. (0:26:52) Kev: Important question. (0:26:55) Kev: Have you tried the raids? (0:26:57) Kev: Because that was the… (0:26:57) Al: I have not. Yeah, I’m not convinced it’s going to make a massive difference to raids, because (0:26:59) Kev: Okay, ‘cause that’s… (0:27:00) Kev: I mean, it’s great the world runs right now, (0:27:02) Kev: but the raids, like… (0:27:05) Kev: Oh. (0:27:08) Al: I think a lot of the issue with raids was the internet communication. But I don’t tend (0:27:12) Kev: Yeah, probably, but I was curious it’s like (0:27:17) Al: to do raids a huge amount. I do them when there’s a seven star out, if possible. If (0:27:20) Kev: Yeah (0:27:21) Al: possible I do them as a solo build, so I don’t have to deal with other people. (0:27:23) Kev: Mm-hmm, I yeah. No, that’s fair (0:27:28) Kev: But yeah, that’s uh (0:27:30) Kev: Because if raids were good like I genuinely might be tempted (0:27:35) Kev: Consider another playthrough to give it a second chance on switch do but anyways, not that I’ll have one for a while, but (0:27:42) Al: Well, we’ll see, we’ll see. (0:27:42) Kev: Anyways, that’s good stuff (0:27:46) Kev: that (0:27:47) Kev: that’s nice and (0:27:49) Kev: Yeah, good on you Pokemon team for putting the effort to make that happen (0:27:54) Al: Yeah, I clearly, like, I wonder whether they’d been working on this before the game came (0:28:00) Al: out or whether this is in reaction to the game coming out and being terrible. Because (0:28:04) Kev: Yeah. (0:28:05) Al: they did tell us, like, oh, we hear you and we understand. And the question is, was that (0:28:11) Al: the point where they go, oh, we can’t just, like, let this go. Like, this is something (0:28:16) Al: we actually need to deal with. And then, obviously, they’ve gone, like, decision made. Do we try (0:28:21) Al: Try it our best to make it work as well on the switch, or do we just… (0:28:24) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:28:24) Al: take all of the nonsense that we’re going to get for the next two and a half years, (0:28:28) Al: and then throw it all on the switch too, and hope that we gain back the positives for that. (0:28:35) Al: I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case, right? That is a decent… That timeline works, (0:28:38) Kev: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. (0:28:43) Al: that’s more than two years. I could absolutely see that they hadn’t even considered this (0:28:45) Kev: Mm hmm. (0:28:48) Al: until the reception was so bad, and then they’ve gone, “You know what? We do need to deal with (0:28:52) Kev: Yeah, also (0:28:52) Al: this and they had a small team dealing (0:28:54) Al: with that for the last couple of years. (0:28:56) Kev: Sure, I’ll I’ll you know, I’ll say that they probably (0:29:02) Kev: Whenever they found out switch to upgrades we’re gonna have which I imagined was relatively early, you know, I (0:29:08) Kev: Imagine they were planning one for scarlet violent (0:29:10) Kev: I don’t see a version where they weren’t gonna do that (0:29:12) Kev: What I don’t think is I don’t think they were gonna put in the effort they did for this because that I think was reactionary (0:29:20) Kev: Because I think they wanted to (0:29:22) Kev: You know try to clean up their act if you know if it had come out (0:29:27) Kev: Not as good or you know if the original game might come out better (0:29:32) Kev: I don’t think it would have been this huge of a jump because they probably just (0:29:32) Al: Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, because it wouldn’t be better. I don’t know. Yeah. I do feel like (0:29:37) Kev: You know, then yeah. Well, yeah. Well, that’s true, but they wouldn’t put the effort, you know what I mean (0:29:43) Al: I do think a lot of this is like, we need to make sure people actually buy our next (0:29:47) Al: game. Let’s show them that we can actually make a good game or a smooth enough. Okay. (0:29:47) Kev: Yeah, yeah (0:29:52) Kev: Yeah (0:29:53) Al: A well performing game. And, and I think that’s probably has done a lot to improve people’s (0:29:59) Kev: Yeah (0:30:00) Al: view on things, right? (0:30:02) Kev: Yeah (0:30:02) Al: People who were, you were probably worried about the next game, right? (0:30:05) Kev: Yeah, well hey, you know like I make all the jokes about you know, we could the you know, then Gen 10 could fail (0:30:12) Kev: or you know or whatever, you know, but (0:30:15) Kev: But maybe this is actually a sign that they’re actually trying to (0:30:19) Kev: They’re gonna try to double down or you know (0:30:23) Kev: put in the effort to make sure it really comes out. (0:30:25) Kev: Um yeah but okay good stuff that’s that’s really nice to know the power of the switch too. (0:30:33) Al: it’s good fun. All right, we have one piece of news I want to talk about before we just (0:30:40) Al: go through the wholesome direct stuff that we want to talk about. Snacko, Snacko decided (0:30:42) Kev: All right, what is it? (0:30:43) Kev: What is it? (0:30:46) Kev: That’s the cat game. (0:30:46) Al: that just after we released our last episode two weeks ago, they decided they were going (0:30:54) Al: going to release their 1.0, just shadow drop it. (0:30:56) Kev: That’s correct. That’s how this works in this gig, podcast world. Things happen as soon as (0:31:07) Kev: you take a break. That’s good. (0:31:08) Al: And I’m not even joking. This was a legitimate shadow drop. Like I saw the Steam news about (0:31:16) Al: Snacko 1.0 and I’m like, hold up, wait a minute. Did I miss something? And then I looked through (0:31:19) Kev: Tempting you. (0:31:21) Al: everything and nope, I did not miss anything. This was just surprise. Here you go. Here’s (0:31:27) Al: the new, here’s 1.0. So there we go. Snacko 1.0. It’s probably finally time for me to (0:31:35) Kev: Probably. I’m just looking at it, it looks nice. Yeah, that’s a, they’re little like pixely, (0:31:45) Kev: 2D, 3D thing, it looks nice, and the cat’s very cute. Yeah, good for you, Snaggo. You made it to (0:31:52) Kev: 1.0, like, that’s always a genuine cause for celebration, assuming it’s a real 1.0, (0:31:58) Kev: and not one of those 1.0s, yeah, it’s kind of 1.0, but not really, because we still have a whole (0:32:02) Kev: a whole bunch of other stuff that didn’t make it in yet. (0:32:04) Al: Yeah, I think they’ve got more updates coming, but it feels like it looks like it’s extra stuff. (0:32:09) Al: But having said that, I haven’t played through it, so I don’t know. (0:32:11) Kev: Yeah. (0:32:12) Kev: Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, I know. (0:32:14) Kev: But I’m just saying, we all know those games out there (0:32:17) Kev: that at 1.0 really should not have been at 1.0. (0:32:18) Al: Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, we do, we do. (0:32:23) Kev: But– but– yeah. (0:32:24) Al: It doesn’t feel, from what I know about the game and the developers, (0:32:28) Al: it doesn’t feel like something they would do. (0:32:30) Al: I don’t feel like they would just go, “Here we go.” (0:32:30) Kev: Yeah, from what– yeah, like, I also agree. (0:32:34) Kev: - Yeah, I agree. (0:32:35) Kev: Very cute game, always has been cute, still cute. (0:32:40) Kev: I might be interested in, oh, there’s a demo. (0:32:42) Kev: I might, I’ll download that demo at the very least. (0:32:44) Kev: Good for you, Snacko. (0:32:46) Al: All right, let’s talk about the Wholesome Direct then. (0:32:49) Kev: Okay, okay. (0:32:51) Kev: Before we get into, because obviously we got our list, (0:32:54) Kev: I want to comment on the presentation, (0:32:56) Kev: ‘cause man, an hour straight of wholesome and cozy, (0:33:03) Kev: Oh, it’s a little it’s. (0:33:05) Kev: A little much and you know, obviously that’s the nature of the beast, but you know, I’m just look, I don’t know how big wholesome games their operation is right and and and they’re they’re trying right like they highlight so many streamers or you know, content creators or whatever and oh good for you, you know, little spotlight on these guys, but you know, maybe, maybe just just put a little more into that, right? (0:33:06) Al: - Yeah. (0:33:32) Kev: Every, I can’t just, I’m not. (0:33:35) Kev: I’m not blaming any one streamer because they, but they all just happened to have the same, you know, just palette color palette swap backgrounds of a shelf with plushies and some plants. (0:33:46) Al: Yeah, yeah, I definitely found that as well. The other thing that I found was like everybody (0:33:50) Al: talks in this calm voice. Yeah, exactly. It’s like cosy games, right? First of all, it’s (0:33:54) Kev: - ASMR? (0:33:55) Kev: - Yup. (0:34:00) Al: not cosy games. It’s wholesome direct, right? The whole point was it’s like we want a place (0:34:03) Kev: - Yeah, huh? (0:34:05) Al: to show a bunch of games that are not just shooting zombies, right? And that is a totally (0:34:10) Kev: Yeah, yeah. (0:34:11) Al: fair thing and that’s why I like it and it doesn’t that doesn’t (0:34:14) Kev: Yeah. (0:34:16) Al: have to mean calm and quiet and trying to send you to sleep which is I definitely felt like it was I don’t know whether it’s always been like this and I’m just getting annoyed with it or whether it’s getting more like this but yeah I was absolutely the same every streamer was the exact same voice and background and I also think that there was a little bit weird and like having a different streamer to introduce every single game felt a bit weird (0:34:33) Kev: » Yeah. (0:34:46) Al: in the every time there was a streamer on they were like here’s my name here’s my channel here’s what I do and it was all the same as well it’s like oh we do everything cozy and you’re like oh my word like yes you are just the exact same as all the other ones we’ve just seen like I don’t it was yeah I agree I’m glad you felt the same because it was just too much for me (0:34:52) Kev: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And again, and yeah, and again, I’m not blaming any individual (0:35:09) Kev: streamer because I’m sure they got their prompt and they do their thing and that’s why. But (0:35:13) Kev: when, you know, the wholesome gang people, when they were putting, cutting, pasting all (0:35:16) Kev: this together, somebody should have said, you know what, this might be a little much. (0:35:20) Al: You get, it’s the same, it’s the same with everything, right? Like it’s when, when you (0:35:23) Kev: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. (0:35:24) Al: watch a Nintendo direct and you have the two hosts who make the same terrible jokes after (0:35:30) Al: every single game, you get annoyed about that. And when you have the Xbox showcase and like (0:35:35) Al: half of them are shooting zombies in the face, it’s the same thing again. It’s just like, (0:35:38) Kev: - Mm-hmm. (0:35:39) Al: why are all these games the same? And, and why is the presentation so long? And so like, (0:35:46) Al: I think maybe we need to spread these things out a little bit more in the year, right? Like (0:35:51) Al: June, for releasing game information, do we really need to? (0:35:55) Kev: Yeah, yeah (0:35:59) Kev: Yeah, I agree or or you know what I’m trying to look up a year (0:36:06) Al: It’s 2025. (0:36:08) Kev: Yeah, not our year I’m I’m trying to look to the the highest (0:36:13) Kev: The high bar of video game presentations at 2014. That’s what it was the Nintendo (0:36:20) Kev: 2014 e3 presentation. That’s the one where we had a (0:36:25) Kev: and Reggie fighting (0:36:27) Kev: With their DBZ fight with the amiibo humor that that one (0:36:27) Al: Mm hmm. Yeah. (0:36:32) Kev: Obviously not every company is gonna be able to produce goofy bits like that or whatever (0:36:36) Kev: But you know that the point is they tried right? They they put a little a little effort into the presentation (0:36:44) Kev: And so, you know, it’d be nice right? What’s crazy to me is some of these bits were like the streamers introducing game (0:36:49) Kev: Didn’t even mention the game (0:36:51) Kev: They just said he was a world premiere (0:36:52) Al: yeah yeah well there is that I i don’t know I also think like the live ones are really (0:36:55) Kev: But anyways, I digress (0:36:59) Al: annoying as well right did you watch the friday’s summer game fest it was just really it was really (0:37:01) Kev: Mm-hmm (0:37:03) Kev: No, I haven’t watched any other I’ve just seen the the bids oh (0:37:08) Al: awkward I didn’t like it and like there’s something about jeff keeley that like i’m not saying he (0:37:10) Kev: Yeah (0:37:14) Al: doesn’t like games i’m sure he does i’m sure he does like games but the way he presents himself (0:37:20) Al: is corporate students. (0:37:21) Kev: Uh-huh, yep, that’s correct. (0:37:22) Al: And I can’t take him seriously and it’s like when there was a point where he was like oh (0:37:29) Al: something some game was shown and he was like wow looks great and he moved on to the next thing (0:37:34) Kev: Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s kind of underlying the point, right? You want to get somebody (0:37:35) Al: and I’m like you did not sound sincere there, what are you on about? (0:37:43) Kev: who’s sincere about the presentation or whatever is being presented, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. (0:37:46) Al: Which Reggie did well. That was his thing. Like, he was a corporate guy and we all knew that, (0:37:52) Al: and we all knew that he would probably sell us if he could. But you also got that he cared, (0:37:55) Kev: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. (0:37:58) Al: and I don’t know whether that was real or not, but you definitely believed that he cared. (0:38:04) Kev: I mean, I think he cared, but maybe that’s just part of the whole thing he did. I don’t (0:38:09) Kev: know, but he, like the important thing is he made us believe he cared, right? He could (0:38:13) Kev: talk about his games. Like it sounded like someone who played the game or knew of the (0:38:17) Kev: game to whatever degree. And yeah, you’re right. Like that’s what we need. We just need (0:38:23) Kev: people who know, who care, who are sincere. Like they’ll, even if it’s, you know, just (0:38:29) Kev: some of a blurb, you can feel that, right? So the point to one. (0:38:34) Kev: Well, long story short, wild. I forget what the new one is. Wildflowers people call me. (0:38:40) Kev: I’ll do the blurb for your next one. I’ll do it. All right. Let’s get into it. (0:38:42) Al: Alright, let’s talk about some games then. I don’t know if you’ve got anything else that (0:38:49) Al: you want to talk about other than the stuff that’s in this list, because I think, but (0:38:52) Kev: OK, there’s– here, let me see if I can find a– (0:38:53) Al: I think this is all the Cottagecore related stuff in my list. Let’s go, let’s go with (0:39:01) Kev: just go to– I’ll be looking up another list. (0:39:04) Al: it. So we started off with Story of Seasons Grand Bazaar. No new real information, but (0:39:10) Al: There was a new trailer with some. (0:39:12) Al: Uh, bits and pieces and, uh, I’m going to be honest. (0:39:15) Al: I’m really excited about this game. (0:39:16) Al: I think I’m, I’ve, I never played the original obviously. (0:39:19) Al: Um, and it does things a bit differently. (0:39:20) Kev: Yeah, it looks it looks good. I’ll say that. It looks like it has that, you know, Nintendo (0:39:21) Al: Um, so I’m excited to play it. (0:39:32) Kev: C.Lo quality story of seasons quality that they do. It looks good. I’ll say that. Yeah. (0:39:32) Al: Next one that I wanted to talk about was gourdlets together. So it’s a new gourdlets game. It’s (0:39:44) Al: a multiplayer gourdlets game. Which I feel like is a fun thing to add into a gourdlets (0:39:50) Al: game. I guess the question is, does this feel like it should have been a separate game or (0:39:55) Al: should it have been an update to gourdlets? I don’t know, but it is what it is. I guess (0:39:57) Kev: another mode. I don’t either. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s true. Well, I could have seen that even (0:40:02) Al: it’s cheap. It feels a bit selfish to ask for anything more. (0:40:16) Kev: more paid DLC by that point with the difference. But yeah, I guess so. I don’t know. It’s not (0:40:22) Kev: appealing to me, like, I don’t know, I’m just not feeling it, but it’s cool. (0:40:27) Kev: It’s cool to see them, you know, wanting to do this. (0:40:30) Al: Yeah, it also feels, I think it feels much, it looks like it’s much more character-based (0:40:36) Al: rather than obviously the girdlets was design-based, like management style, whereas this, I think, (0:40:43) Al: looks like you’re controlling a character because it’s the multiplayer aspect. So I’m (0:40:49) Al: thinking that might vibe with me more than the previous one. (0:40:52) Kev: Yeah. No, I can see that. That’s fair. (0:40:56) Al: we got something that you’ll be interested in, Luma Island, the (0:41:00) Kev: Well, you know what I do like pirates you’re right about that (0:41:06) Al: Well you played. Did you not play Luma Island? Am I misremembering? (0:41:06) Kev: It looks I didn’t play them island. No, that wasn’t me (0:41:10) Al: Oh, I know Johnny did, but I thought you had done as well. Oh well. (0:41:13) Kev: No, I don’t think no that was me but I do like pirates (0:41:15) Al: Well the Luma Island pirate update is coming out on the 20th of June. So we had, (0:41:19) Al: we already knew about the pirate update, but now we know that it’s coming out next week. (0:41:26) Kev: you go. It’s pretty looking, I guess. I like pirates, I don’t know. Okay, like, you know, (0:41:32) Al: We got a new trailer for tales of the shire as well. (0:41:38) Kev: in the past week, I actually watched the Lord of the Rings trilogy. And like, dang, man, (0:41:44) Kev: what a what a legacy you have to live up to. Okay, first off, did we have a date? Because (0:41:54) Kev: We finally got a date. (0:41:55) Al: We did. We did have a date when when they delayed it from March, they gave us a date of that point. So yeah, this is this is still what we were expecting. (0:41:56) Kev: I’m kidding. Okay. Okay. Well, that’s soon. It looks kind of like where it was at. I don’t (0:42:07) Kev: know what to say. I’m pretty sure the game is clear what it’s going to be. And as I watched (0:42:16) Kev: The Lord of the Rings and looking at this trailer, I’m thinking, “I don’t know if this (0:42:21) Kev: is the one for me. I’m not the one who wants to live in a hobbit. I want to hang out with (0:42:26) Kev: you.” That’s what I want to do in Middle Earth. (0:42:28) Al: Yeah. I’m a bit the same. I just, I don’t know what it is about this game that’s not (0:42:36) Al: grabbing me because A Lord of the Rings, Shire based culture game should be something that (0:42:42) Al: I would love, but I just, I don’t know. There’s just, it’s not grabbed me in anything other (0:42:48) Al: than the concept since it was announced. (0:42:48) Kev: yeah yeah that’s the hard part right is the concept gonna be better than the game maybe (0:42:57) Kev: uh that’s that’s you know that’s tough it like I said it’s when you put the lord of the rings (0:43:03) Kev: name on the box you have made things so much harder for yourself because that’s a lot of (0:43:08) Kev: expectations on now um but we’ll see maybe when it comes on it’s actually incredible I don’t know (0:43:16) Kev: Gandalf looked very kawaii, I’ll give him that. (0:43:18) Kev: They give us little ubu Gandalf. (0:43:21) Al: “I think it’s the character models that really confuse me. It’s not that I hate how they look, (0:43:27) Kev: Yeah, they do feel a little weird. (0:43:28) Al: I just… I don’t know. It’s so hard to explain.” (0:43:33) Kev: Yeah, no, I know exactly what you mean. (0:43:35) Kev: It’s something– it’s just a little je ne sais quoi. (0:43:40) Kev: I agree. (0:43:42) Al: Not normally used in a positive frame, not a negative frame, but fair enough. (0:43:42) Kev: But yeah. (0:43:49) Kev: But we’ll see. (0:43:50) Kev: It’s coming out soon. (0:43:51) Kev: And maybe it’ll surprise us still. (0:43:56) Al: Next, we had a new game, Linked Banner of the Spark. Build a bright new world alongside (0:44:01) Kev: oh my goodness this game (0:44:05) Al: a band of rescued robot buddies in this colourful action RPG, battle waves of enemies in solo (0:44:10) Al: or co-op, then return home and use your parts to craft a thriving town, assemble your crew, (0:44:15) Al: and grow stronger with each new adventure. I mean, this is basically like robot cult (0:44:19) Al: of the lamb, right? Go out and get stuff, and then save some creatures, and then come (0:44:24) Al: back and build a town. (0:44:27) Al: Kotlin did it really well, so if it implements it well, I think this could be really good. (0:44:32) Kev: It looks so good to me. (0:44:34) Kev: Like, oh man, ‘cause I’ve never called credit (0:44:40) Kev: within the trailer show. (0:44:41) Kev: There’s still like some gardening (0:44:42) Kev: or something like that, I think. (0:44:43) Al: There’s definitely farming, I’m seeing a farming plot. (0:44:43) Kev: But either, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (0:44:47) Al: It doesn’t look like it’s a big thing, it looks like it’s relatively small, but it is (0:44:53) Kev: But like, it does it great. (0:44:56) Kev: ‘Cause you have that and you have, you know, (0:44:57) Kev: you’re throwing robots in there. (0:44:58) Kev: Well, you know, that can be a different number of ways, (0:45:01) Kev: but the robot portion of it. (0:45:02) Kev: It looks sick, like you have a lot of knife hands like there’s some that look kind of threatening or genuinely actiony. (0:45:09) Kev: Um, there’s robot fish. That’s kind of fun. Um, I’m excited about this one. This one is high up on my list. It looks great. Um, the gameplay looks like what I want to the world’s colorful. I can’t wait. I’m so excited for this one. (0:45:26) Al: Yeah, I agree. Looks really fun. (0:45:28) Kev: All right, what’s next that’s not linked and thusly not as high on my list. (0:45:32) Kev: Oh well that blew up in my face because I forgot no this one is high up on my list too. (0:45:32) Al: Milano Milano’s odd collection or job collection. (0:45:43) Al: This one is, I think, PlayStation style is what they’re going. (0:45:48) Al: They’re calling it PlayStation one style. (0:45:48) Kev: Is (0:45:53) Al: It’s. (0:45:55) Kev: You okay, you g

Laura Kendrick and Cort Sharp hijack the mic to share what it’s really like behind the scenes at Mountain Goat. From Zoom bloopers to unexpected team bonding, they unpack how a fully remote team built a thriving, human-centered workplace. Overview In this special takeover episode, Laura Kendrick and Cort Sharp pull back the curtain on what goes into running hundreds of Scrum and Product Owner classes virtually—and why Mountain Goat's remote team still feels so close-knit. With stories of early tech headaches, Slack banter, hilarious costume moments, and the quiet rituals that keep the team connected, they explore how remote work can actually foster strong relationships and top-tier collaboration. If you’ve ever wondered how to make a distributed team work (or just want a peek at some Zoom-era growing pains), this one’s for you. References and resources mentioned in the show: Laura Kendrick Cort Sharp #61: The Complex Factors in The Office Vs. Remote Debate with Scott Dunn #147: The Power of Quiet Influence with Casey Sinnema Run a Daily Scrum Your Team Will Love Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Cort Sharp is the Scrum Master of the producing team and the Agile Mentors Community Manager. In addition to his love for Agile, Cort is also a serious swimmer and has been coaching swimmers for five years. Laura Kendrick is the producer of the Agile Mentors Podcast and a seasoned Scrum Master who keeps virtual classes running smoothly. Outside the podcast, she helps clients apply Scrum techniques to their marketing and business strategy, bringing structure and momentum to big, creative ideas. Auto-generated Transcript: Laura Kendrick (00:00) Welcome in Agile Mentors. As you may have noticed, I am not Brian Milner. I am Laura Kendrick, and this is Cort Sharp. And if you have taken a class with us at Mountain Goat in the last five years, there is a good chance that you have met one or actually both of us. Cort Sharp (00:19) I think it's like 90 % chance, 95 % honestly. We've been in so many of these classes. Laura Kendrick (00:26) Definitely, and oftentimes together too with one of us TAing, one of us producing, sometimes one of us teaching court. Cort Sharp (00:33) once in a while, once in a while. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (00:37) So we thought we would come on over here and hijack the podcast to share a little bit about some of the insights that we have gained from doing about a billion, maybe a little exaggeration. Cort Sharp (00:49) Roughly. Roughly. We've done roughly a billion classes with Mountain Goat. Yes. Laura Kendrick (00:56) We have seen a lot in the certifying of Scrum Masters and product owners and advanced product owners and Scrum Masters and all of the evolution of the classes that we have done. We actually hold quite a bit of insight into what is happening in this world. And so we thought we would come in, steal the podcast, and share a little bit of what we have seen, learned, observed, and really just kind of Honestly, some of the laughs and fun that we've had along the way. Cort Sharp (01:25) Also, I think, I don't know, just your intro right there is talking about, hey, we've seen the evolution of these classes. That just got my brain going of like, remember the first class that we did? Way like 2020. I mean, I was in my parents' basement with really terrible internet. It was a struggle. Laura Kendrick (01:40) Yeah. Cort Sharp (01:49) But we were working on like Miro boards or mural. One of the two, forget which, which tool it was, but that was, yeah, that was before team home. And then we got to see the first version of team home. We helped do a little testing with it. And then we've seen it grow all the way into this awesome tool that we have nowadays. And I don't know, just, just to me, I think it's cool to see how we've been iterating and be part of that process of the iteration process, um, to develop these classes and these courses into. Laura Kendrick (01:52) Mm-hmm. Mural. Yep. Mm-hmm. Cort Sharp (02:20) the truly awesomeness that they are today. Personally, I'd rather take a virtual class than an in-person class with Mountain Goat at this point. Laura Kendrick (02:27) It's funny that you say that because I notice actually the iteration of the experience like outside of the tech piece because you know, that's where my brain goes. Here's the difference between court and I. I'm noticing the interactions. But I've noticed, mean how people are interacting a little bit differently in the online space, how even our team interacts, like all of those things has become so much more sophisticated and amazing and Cort Sharp (02:39) Yeah, just a bit. Laura Kendrick (02:54) I mean, honestly, we sometimes talk on our team between like the producing and TA team where like I've referred to it as a perfect game if we don't need anything from the outside team, which occasionally we need a lot of support from the outside team, but we've we've got this down at this point. And it is it's become those first classes. I remember them being super stressful, like, my gosh, the breakout rooms and all the things and just being like, I mean, you couldn't do. Cort Sharp (03:17) Yes. Laura Kendrick (03:21) It was almost like learning how to drive where you felt like if you turned the radio knob up, you might actually turn the whole car. And it was like, so much anxiety. Cort Sharp (03:31) I mean, but we just didn't know Zoom then. Zoom didn't even know itself then, right? What Zoom is, ⁓ for those of you who don't know, we host all of our virtual classes on Zoom. And learning that platform, like I'd used it once maybe for some just, yeah, here's Zoom exists in one of my college classes. That was about it. But yeah, totally. was like, man, what does this button do? Hopefully it doesn't end the meeting and kick everyone out. Laura Kendrick (03:34) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true. Yeah, no kidding. But you know what's really interesting too, though, is that it's been over five years now for both of us being part of the Mountain Goat team. And we all work remotely. And other than you and Mike for a little while being right down the road from each other, none of us had any actual interpersonal interaction with each other outside of Zoom email and Slack and the occasional, know, fretted text message of like, are you late? Where are you? Cort Sharp (03:58) Absolutely, yeah, totally. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (04:26) But other than that it like we truly were of and still are a fully remote team and the crazy thing about it is we have at this point once gotten together as a full team in person and it was such an interesting experience being having been fully remote and then being in person and in particular the team that is live on the classes Cort Sharp (04:39) Yep. Yep. Laura Kendrick (04:51) It was a very different interaction because we have this time built into our classes where the team gets on the Zoom call 30 minutes earlier than the students do. And we get this time to just honestly have like water cooler chat and like friend chat or occasionally see Mike get on and you can't hear him, but you can see that he is quite angry at his very elaborate tech system that is not working correctly. Cort Sharp (05:14) you That does happen. Yes, it does. ⁓ Laura Kendrick (05:21) these moments, I feel like they really bonded us together. Because when we got together in person, it was old friends. wasn't even fast friends. It was old friends. And the banter even that goes on in Slack is fun and engaging and not rigid and confining. Cort Sharp (05:31) Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I agree with that. I mean, I'm just thinking back to like the first time because that was the first time I met you in person. aside from being like, wow, she's a lot shorter than I thought she would be. Laura Kendrick (05:47) Mm-hmm. shorter. By the way, court is like 6-4. Cort Sharp (05:55) Yeah, yeah. Not that you're short. But I've just always ever seen like, the profile like the profile picture. That's all that it's really ever been. So I'm like, yeah, you're like, what I would consider normal height, which you totally are. But in my mind, I was like, yeah, it's weird seeing, you know, your legs. That's funny. ⁓ Laura Kendrick (06:14) We digress. Cort Sharp (06:15) But aside from that, was like we've known each other for three, four, four years because we've had that time to get to know each other. We've had that time to talk about just life events, what's going on, where we live, what's happening, what the deal is going on with life. Because we've been very intentional about having that time with that. The 30 minutes before each class were originally very much so used to take care of any tech problems. As the years have gone by, we've for the most part figured out the tech problems. Sometimes, you know, we'll change something out. Laura Kendrick (06:48) Except, hold on, except last week in Lance's class, we were talking about his dog and suddenly it looked as though Lance in his entire room did a cartwheel because the camera just fell. This is not a small camera. Cort Sharp (07:02) It said, nope, I'm out. ⁓ man. Laura Kendrick (07:06) So we still occasionally have the tech problem. Cort Sharp (07:09) Yes we do, yes we do. That's why we still do the 30 vimits. Laura Kendrick (07:14) The crazy thing about that is that when we landed at this in-person meeting, there were members of the team that at that time, and I in particular had never had any interaction with. so like other than the odd email or Slack message, so it was like really knew their name, but didn't really work with them up until that moment. And it was really interesting because at one point, the way that the leadership team had mentioned of like, well, if you need somebody to step in and talk to Mike for you, if you're not comfortable. And I remember looking at court and being like, Mike's the one I'm most comfortable with in this room because of that 30 minutes. I feel like I know Mike. I feel like we have an actual interpersonal relationship where I have no problem speaking up and saying the things that I need to. And that has made like those little water cooler times, those little Cort Sharp (07:54) Yeah. Laura Kendrick (08:06) bantery questions, them asking about my kids or hobbies or whatever. And just knowing those things made a huge difference in our team functioning. The communication across time zones was so much better and easier and safer. Cort Sharp (08:24) Absolutely. We were talking a little bit before we were recording about just people who want pure in-person no matter what. I think at this point, I will always push back on that and say, you might not get that quote unquote collaboration time that's naturally built in, but if you're intentional about it and you provide the space and provide the resources, Laura Kendrick (08:32) Hmm. Cort Sharp (08:50) And also, kind of push people along, have some, I don't know, working agreements or something of, hey, our cameras are on whenever we're talking with each other, unless something like drastic is going on or something's happening, right? Which I think we're going to get into in a little bit, but it's massive. It's crazy. Laura Kendrick (09:03) That's huge. Yeah, I mean, it is. I think we can definitely speak to that in our own experience because we've had, of course, there are moments where people don't have cameras. There are moments where people have bad connections and we'll encourage them in class, like turn off your camera, save your bandwidth. But there are also moments where we are doing private classes for companies. In particular, we've done some with companies that work with like Department of Defense. So there's like real security. issues there and so they don't turn their cameras on. Their cameras are totally disabled on their computers. And it is, I have to say those classes are some of the most like energy draining classes I'm ever present in because I'll be there with the trainer and I feel like I have to give all this emotional feedback because when you are talking to a black screen, that's, it's really hard to just. Cort Sharp (09:47) Hmm. Laura Kendrick (09:58) survive that because you're not getting any feedback from anyone. So you don't know what's happening and you're constantly questioning and the kind of banter in your own mind is like, God, is it landing? Is it not? And you're just not getting any of that physical feedback. So I feel like when I'm on a class with a trainer like that, I feel like I have to be like, that's funny. I'm like, yeah, good point. Cort Sharp (10:19) Yeah, you're kidding. Laura Kendrick (10:21) I'm tired Cort Sharp (10:22) You No, I get that. And I've had some pretty similar experiences too. I might not be as in tune with the emotional side as stated earlier. So I might not help the trainers out nearly as much as I probably should. But I do think cameras on just can make all the difference. And again, situations where it's just not possible. Absolutely understand that. One of our trainers, Lance, he Laura Kendrick (10:39) Mm-hmm. Cort Sharp (10:47) He always likes to throw out the phrase, look, let's approach everything with grace, patience, and mercy. So I like, which I really appreciate, and I like that he throws that out there. But I think that's a good thing to keep in mind of like, know, even though you have the company policy, you have the working agreement, whatever it is that says, look, camera's on all the time, sometimes it's just not possible. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. I recently had to figure out internet in the middle of nowhere, because that's where I live now. Laura Kendrick (10:52) Mm. No. Cort Sharp (11:15) And I was worried for a while that I wouldn't be able to put my camera on. But, you know, if if they came down to that, I know that it would be, hey, you know, it's a it's a unique situation. It's something different. And we're going to do we're going to work the best that we can with it and try to figure out maybe you can turn your camera on for any time you're talking or just any time you have something to say or, you know, if you're agreeing with something, you could briefly turn your camera on to show like, yeah, I'm nodding. I'm agreeing. I'm doing whatever. Right. But Laura Kendrick (11:45) Honestly, I think recently I had a very busy day and we communicate in back channels, of course through email, but also we use Slack as a team. And so I sent a direct message to court about something and I just like, I sent it in a voice? No. And court's response was, didn't know you could do that in Slack. But in those moments, I think there are other ways of doing it too, where you can bring the humanity out, where it's not just words. Cort Sharp (12:01) Yeah. Laura Kendrick (12:09) So often I'm actually thinking about there was one time that you and I were talking about something and I misread it as like, I like kicked something, like some hornet's nest in there. Like you were upset with me, but you were like, no, that was not my intention. And it's an amazing thing that that's only happened once in five years. There was that subtle nuanced miscommunication of I thought I had offended in some way and I hadn't. Cort Sharp (12:18) So. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (12:34) Just keeping that in mind though, in written word, tone is interpreted because probably what happened is I like offended my kid or my partner and was bringing that into the conversation with court. And it had nothing to do with what was actually happening, but adding in those personal things of your face, your voice, those things really do help move that human connection, which enables the teamwork that we've seen at Mountain Go. Cort Sharp (12:42) Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (13:00) I mean, it's amazing the way this team functions and it is not perfect. There are definitely communications missteps. There are definitely like, oops, forgot to leave that piece out of the information packet. It happens. It happens to everybody, but we're able to recover really quickly or even it's a safe enough space to be able to speak up and say, I think I got left out on this. And it's responded to in a really gracious and amazing way. Cort Sharp (13:26) It absolutely is. I mean, Mountain Goat's been remote for longer than the COVID stuff, the pandemic stuff happened. Laura Kendrick (13:33) Yeah. Well, Lisa's been with them for what, 10 years? I think it was nearly 10 years when we started, maybe 15. And Hunter's around the same. So yeah, they've been spread for a long time. Cort Sharp (13:42) Something like that, Uh-huh. ⁓ I know that they had an office space and that office space changed just in case people wanted to like come in, come to the office. I think at one point, one of them was in Colorado, which is kind of funny because several people live on the West coast. And then it's like, okay, yeah, come on, come on, swing by the... Colorado office on just a random Tuesday. Yeah, fly in, have fun. I don't know. Yeah, why not? I don't know what the deal was or what it was like, but they've been fully remote. And I think with the kind of runway that they've had leading up until the time where everyone had to be fully remote has really benefited Mountain Go in a lot of ways, because a lot of those early, like, how do we work remote? How do we do this? Laura Kendrick (14:09) I'd do that. Yeah, let's do it. Cort Sharp (14:31) kind of was ironed out, but back to your, your point to just like, it's, it's incredible how much support there is. It's incredible how much, how well communication again, it's not perfect, but how well we're able to communicate with each other and how well we're able to just say, yeah, let's, let's hop on a call real quick or here. I think most of us have like personal phone numbers. We, we use that as a very much so last resort type deal. Laura Kendrick (14:57) Yeah. Cort Sharp (14:59) But even then, it's nice to just have those open lines of communication and know that those are always available, but also know that people are kind of in our corner all the time too. And I think you have a pretty good story about this one. Something happened in a class a few years ago. Laura Kendrick (15:09) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was early on we had, it was a non-Mike class. So it was one of the other instructors and there was a student who was just challenging. And in the end, it didn't go well in the moment, to put it, just to kind of like not go into grave detail about it. But Mike wasn't there, right? And so The thing that was interesting though is the first piece of communication that came from Mike, which was before that class even broke, right? Because it was one of those things of like, we have to share. As a team, we can't hide it. We have to share that something happened in class that was less than ideal. And so we did. And the immediate response from Mike was in support of the team. And later on, he did go and review the tape of the, because the classes are recorded, not for this purpose. They're recorded actually so that the students get a recording of the class afterwards and can return to what, you know, all the things that they learned because it's a lot to take in in two days. But in this one instance, it was beneficial in this way because Mike could actually see rather than taking people's words, what happened. And I think the important thing is not even what happened after, but what happened in the moment. that he instantaneously was like, I've got you. Like no matter how this goes, we're a team and I'm gonna support you as well. And that was actually, that was pretty early on for me. And it was in a moment where I didn't know Mike that well yet. And it was actually this very solidifying moment for me that was like, I'm in the right place. Like I am part of this team, not just a minion or an employee. Like they care about all of us. Cort Sharp (16:48) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (16:56) and we're in this together, even if it turns out that we're in some form of trouble, it's still going to be thoughtfully managed and handled rather than just the kind of lashing out that can happen in so many environments. Cort Sharp (17:12) Right. And, and that experience, cause I think we were all included on that email. Like I, I wasn't in the class when it happened, but I do remember getting that email and it just was a clear communication from kind of head honcho Mike, right? A top dog saying, yeah, no, we, we got your back. on, we're on the same team. We're all working towards the same goal. And when I, when I read the email, I was like, wow, that was an eventful class. but. Laura Kendrick (17:26) Mm-hmm. us. Cort Sharp (17:38) My second thought, my second thought was, huh, this very similar to what you were saying of like, wow, this is a great place to be. This is a great company to work for. These are great people to be working with and alongside. ⁓ but also like, I know so many people whose managers, whose higher ups would say, Nope, you're in the wrong. You should have done better. Your toast, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like putting all the blame on you. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (17:52) Mm-hmm. Yeah. The knee jerk. Yeah. Yeah. Cort Sharp (18:07) And it just, makes me think all the time of like one really blessed, like very fortunate to be here, very fortunate to work with mountain goat. but also people don't quit jobs. They quit managers. They quit leadership more often than not. And, not that I'm talking about quitting mountain goat, but, neither, neither of us are throwing that out there right now, but just like, Laura Kendrick (18:20) Mmm. Yeah. No, but interestingly in five years, I've not seen anybody quit. I mean, we've had people kind of go down separate paths, but nobody has been throwing their hands up and been like, I'm done. I can't be in this. There have been people who have taken other opportunities that they needed to take for their own businesses. But yeah, nobody's quit. In five years, no one has quit, which speaks volumes to the culture that is created in an environment where Cort Sharp (18:37) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (18:57) And I also want to be clear that that response from Mike also, it wasn't disparaging to the other party either. It was simply a, like, it just let us know that I see you and this, you were in a hard moment in the moment and you had to react like a human being and you as a team, I've got your back and this is, you know, great. And to be fair to that was like in the heat of COVID. Cort Sharp (19:24) Yes, yeah It was yeah Laura Kendrick (19:27) good times. But there's also been a lot of fun that's happened in class too, which is, I think that makes a big difference. Like where we are, I don't want to say allowed because I don't think that's right, but like part of the culture is to have fun. Like Mike is a pretty funny guy. Brian's a pretty funny guy. Like honestly, the whole team is quite humorous and it's, we're allowed to like make these really fun things and Cort Sharp (19:48) Yes. Laura Kendrick (19:52) in response to like when we see them in class, like, we foster those two and it becomes this really fun working environment, not only for us, for our students. You brought up one that I had totally forgotten about with the costume. That was good. Cort Sharp (20:06) ⁓ yeah, I, I, yeah, I'll, I'll get into the costume thing, but I think the word you're looking for instead of allowed is enabled. Like we're, we're enabled to have fun. We're encouraged. Absolutely. Yeah. A hundred percent. If you ever hung out with Mike or, or taking a class with him, you've probably heard some funny stories. Laura Kendrick (20:13) Yeah, Encouraged, in fact. And my gosh, the one class too where Mike was asked how long they'd have access to like the videos and stuff. my gosh, Mike ended the class and it was a super engaged Chipper class. Everyone was laughing and Mike brought it down. Cause he did his usual thing where he talked about, what does he say? You have access as long as the internet exists and I'm alive. And then he went into great detail. great detailed speculation about what will happen once he's not alive. It went on for like five minutes. Cort Sharp (20:58) Yeah, where where he's like, yeah, you know, my kids will probably be like, what's this? What's this old website that dad's still hosting? Guess we'll we'll close that up 10 years down the line or whatever. Laura Kendrick (21:09) Dumbfounded. It was so good. But anyhow. Cort Sharp (21:13) man. But there was, I don't even remember why this happened in the class. don't think it was around like Halloween time or something. think the person, actually, I think the person does this to go to like local children's hospitals or local hospitals and just visit. But I get on and I'm normally the PM producer. So I normally hop on in the afternoon. And I took over from Laura and Laura Kendrick (21:22) No, it wasn't. think so. Cort Sharp (21:39) Laura was like, yeah, you know, pretty normal class. This happens, whatever. We're good. And I hop on and people start turning their cameras on. And then all of a sudden there's this dude in a Captain America costume. Like what? He's got the mask. He's got the, the, the uniform. He's got the shield and everything. And I was like, what is happening? What is going on? Come to find out he was telling his story. Laura Kendrick (21:50) Like full on math. Cort Sharp (22:04) Yeah, I do this. This is cool. And Mike was like, that'd be awesome to see. He went out, put it on and took the rest of the classes Captain America. So we have certified Captain America. Laura Kendrick (22:12) Awesome. We've had, there was the guy who was put on like a crazy hat for the first session and then came back for session two with a different crazy hat. And then other people started wearing crazy hats. And by the end of it, like by the final session, almost the entire class was sitting there with some like their kids stuff on their heads. it was. Cort Sharp (22:34) You Laura Kendrick (22:36) But was this one, like it stands out of the billion classes we've done. It stands out in our minds as these really fun moments. I remember the class where it was a private class, so it was for a company or team. And there were, it took me until the very end to, it was early on, so it took me until the very end to get up the gumption. There were five mics in the class. And finally I was like, I'm just gonna put them all in the same room and see if anybody notices. Cort Sharp (22:36) People just... Yes. Didn't they notice like right away, they all came back and they're like, team Mike is back in action or something, right? Laura Kendrick (23:04) I don't think they said anything, but they did. The instructor went into the room and like, yeah, they noticed. Good. My passive aggressive humor worked. Cort Sharp (23:10) Hehehehehe It's fun. It's all good. But it's also like going back to us being able to do this before I figured out kind of my background situation, I would always put up virtual backgrounds and I would just change your background every time and see if people noticed. And it wasn't, it was a lot of Disney. Yes. Laura Kendrick (23:23) Mm-hmm. Disney. That's the thing though. That also, that kind of stuff built a little bit of a relationship as well. like it was, court was always going to have something for Disney. I had one that I would, when I finally found the one I liked, I kept that one for a long time. And Mike would occasionally, when I wasn't in a class, he would send me a screenshot of somebody via email and be like, somebody's in your house with you. Cause they would have the same background. Cort Sharp (23:52) Yeah! Laura Kendrick (23:56) those little tiny things make the relationships and make the team function and make us giggle. So I'd be like out with my kids and see an email and be like, oh no, Mike, what does he need? And then click in and be like, you know, actually more often than not, it would probably be like, am I missing class? See, I'd be like, oh, that's funny. But you know, it builds that relationship. And I think it's why this remote working has worked so well for us. And I'm totally with you where I, when people are Cort Sharp (24:13) You Yeah. Laura Kendrick (24:26) railing against it because of my experience. like, you're crazy. This is great. Cort Sharp (24:31) Exactly. I'm like, how can you not want to just chill out, hang out in your home, chat with some people, get some work done, and like, you're good. Who despises that? Who doesn't like that? don't know. It's, Exactly, yeah. But I do think it does, it comes down to being intentional with it. We were talking about that 30 minutes before that used to be primarily tech troubleshooting. Laura Kendrick (24:47) I know, you get to do things on your own time too. Cort Sharp (25:01) but has since kind of evolved into, okay, so everything, like, I don't know about you, but the vast majority of time, unless a camera's fallen, the vast majority of time, it's, all right, does everything look good? Yeah? Cool. Sure does. Whoever I'm working with, awesome. So, what'd you do this weekend? how was this? ⁓ sorry, sorry that the Avs lost to the Dallas Stars. Yeah, I'm sorry too. Stuff like that, right? Where it's just, Laura Kendrick (25:19) Yeah. It's water cooler talk. Cort Sharp (25:29) It's fun, but we're very intentional with having that time to do that. And I think if you're not intentional in setting up that time, whether if you're working remote hybrid, you're not going to get it. And it's not just going to naturally happen because it is so much more difficult to produce. it's impossible for it to just kind of naturally pop up without taking away from some other intentional time. so I think in, in this this world that we're living in where there is the option to work remotely and there is this really big push to go back in person. I'm saying stick with remote, take your 15, 15 minute daily standup, and turn it into, you know, say, Hey, I'll be on 10, 15 minutes early. If anyone wants to come hang out, come chat. And make it worth it. Make it a valuable time because that is the time to connect and that is the time to say, yeah, cool. How are the kids? How was your weekend? Did you grill up some good hot dogs during this last weekend? What'd you do? Like, what was going on? ⁓ Build up that stuff. Laura Kendrick (26:23) Yeah. We also have Slack channels too, that are like that. Like there's a Slack channel for our team that's just movies, books and TV shows. That people, it'll get active at certain times and it'll be totally dead for a while and nobody's cultivating it. It's simply that somebody will pop in like, I just watched this and it's great. And they've set up also like the automatic bots, cause Mike's a big fan of James Bond. So like if somebody mentions James Bond, the Slack bot will say something quippy and it- Cort Sharp (26:39) Yeah. ⁓ Laura Kendrick (26:58) But it adds that little, like, little bit of humor, little bit of humanness to even though, like, the people that we have time to interact with like that is the team that's in class. So I don't, I mean, it wasn't until we were in person that I met our CTO. He was kind of an enigma, you know? Cort Sharp (27:10) Yeah. Mm-hmm. He was just in the background. Things just magically showed up digitally. Laura Kendrick (27:23) It was in my email and my Slack sometimes, but it creates that thing of like, now I know things about Hunter. Yes, of course it was because we were in person. I heard lots of stories and all that fun stuff. But also I know about like some of his like TV watching stuff. I know occasionally like what his wife likes to watch because sometimes he'll like pepper in something that, she dragged me into this and not my cup of tea. But it's those little bitty things that you start to learn about the people. Cort Sharp (27:39) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (27:50) that makes them human and gives that space. And I also, think it's important to have it be a little bit of white space. so often we talk about cultivating the conversation and like, can you have icebreakers and get people engaged? And yes, those things are so important, but when it's with a team, you need to do those things, but you also need to create the empty space where maybe you have that daily standup or that... weekly meeting or monthly meeting, whatever that is for your team. And maybe at the end of it, it's just leaving the call going and allowing people to just talk. I mean, we did that as a producer team that we would have a meeting as producers that would be very structured and then kind of the official meeting would end. And there would be times where as a team we'd be on that Zoom. I'm like, thank goodness nobody needs this channel. Cause like we'd be in there for like two and a half hours. Cort Sharp (28:26) Yeah. Yeah. Laura Kendrick (28:42) just talking. And of course, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't billing time. It wasn't, you know, it was just us being friends and hearing each other and sometimes ranting and complaining and doing the things of like, this part was hard and like, yeah, well, people need the space to do that and feel seen and heard. And the only place they're going to get that is in the white space. Cort Sharp (29:01) Yep. Exactly. Yep. And where my head went when you were talking about the white space, I love where you just went to because that's absolutely very true. But where my mind went was the newest kind of Slack channel that that's been set up, which is the artificial intelligence. Yeah. Where we just we just it's cool because I'm interested in AI. I think everyone's interested in AI right now. Things are things are going in all sorts of wild directions with it. There's there's all sorts of possibilities that we can do with it. Laura Kendrick (29:17) ⁓ Yeah, that one's Yeah. Cort Sharp (29:32) And Hunter just threw out, who wants in? If you want in, cool, I'll get you in. If not, and you're not interested in AI, let me know when you are, because it'll be at some point, I was going to say. It's just another full group one. Yeah, we just. Laura Kendrick (29:39) Yeah. Pretty sure the whole team's in there. But it is fun. Like Hunter and Mike do deep dives and Brian too. And I'm like, wow, I just get to swim in that pool. It's really Cort Sharp (29:50) Yes. Yeah, yeah. You just kind of get a glean from what's posted in there and say, oh yeah, I am really interested in the automation side of AI. I want to do, I think I threw in there one time, like this whole GitHub repository that has just from zero to hero AI, here's a two week crash course. And I've been working my way through that. It's taken a lot longer than two weeks for me. I've been working my way through that. And it's opened my eyes to say, okay, now this awesome thing, think Mike just threw in there something about someone using it at Disney, I think it was, and how they were using it at Disney to propose, here's a cool way that we can use AI to help our proposals go faster or help our marketing campaigns go faster or whatever it is. And just learning and seeing and... Laura Kendrick (30:38) Yeah. Cort Sharp (30:44) growing together as a team as well and having that space of, yeah, you know, here's what here, here are these articles that I'm reading. Here's the ones that stuck out to me. And to have that space, I think also is, is really interesting to me too, not just because I like learning, but it's also like, I feel like, okay, I can talk with Mike about AI. I can talk with Hunter about AI. I can talk with whoever about it. And we're all relatively on the same page because we're all relatively getting the same information. Laura Kendrick (31:14) Yeah, yeah. I feel like having the Slack channel has been really helpful and all the white space and even honestly the in-person event, there was white space built into that too. There was definitely a lot of structured meetings because of course when you are bringing everyone in from all over the country and actually the world, have a team member who is in the UK too. Cort Sharp (31:26) yeah. Laura Kendrick (31:37) flying a great distance and being in a space together, it's got to be structured. You have to make that worth the time and effort and investment. But also there were dinners, there were shows that happened, there was fun built into it, and there were options of not just like, I'm forcing you to go to this, but like, here's a choice. Would you like to do this or that? And those things have made a huge difference in breeding the like belongingness. Cort Sharp (31:55) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (32:05) and the feeling like we are actually a team. And even though there are definitely times where the frustrations arise, of course, I mean, who doesn't have frustrations, but it's a space where they can be vocalized, they can be talked through, and it's all due to that togetherness that we have, that connectedness that has been built through, honestly, Cort Sharp (32:05) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (32:30) just being in these like casual fun spaces is where that comes from in my opinion. Cort Sharp (32:36) Yeah, I agree with that. Just having the space to talk about whatever. But I think it's all rooted in communication, right? So in various methods of communicating and various ways of communicating too, where it's not just exclusively Slack, email, written text, we have that space there. But we do still run into some communication problems, right? There's... Laura Kendrick (32:41) Yeah. For sure, for sure. Cort Sharp (32:58) there's all sorts of communication problems that we're gonna run into because especially we are text-based heavy, but we're not exclusively text-based. But I think you were talking about a story where Mike was late one time or Mike's late story about communication and what was going on with that. Laura Kendrick (33:12) he tells it in class. He tells a story in class with that. It's one of his examples that he will pull into fairly frequently with an experience with a team where somebody was always late to the daily standup and they realized that it had to do with the fact that they had to drop their kid off at school. And so it was that simple communication shift of asking instead of assuming, asking which... They've put into practice too, like I recall early on hearing like, do you prefer to be communicated with? And like we've had these conversations that court and I have a tendency to be more slack people. But Brian has stated that for him, like when he's teaching slack is like his emergency line. And so like knowing that I'm not going to send him something through slack unless I desperately need him to see it when I can land it in his email versus Lisa and Laura are much more Cort Sharp (33:43) yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (34:04) they're going to be in the email. Like that's just where they live and they are less likely to be in Slack. So it's just knowing those things have also helped us build the right kind of streams of communication. I'm pretty sure Hunter is everywhere all at once. Like he's omnipresent. You can get him anywhere. I know it. I'm in New York and he's in California. I'm pretty sure if I whispered his name, he's hearing it right now. Cort Sharp (34:06) Right. my gosh. He's the enigma. He's the enigma everywhere. I was gonna say, I'm surprised he hasn't popped into this. We've said his name three times. It's, he just knows everything and he's always got everything coming through and no matter what you need, he's any message away. Slack, email, could be carry your pigeon. I don't know, something like that, right? Laura Kendrick (34:43) Yeah, his next Halloween costume needs to be Beetlejuice, so I'm sending that to him. my goodness. But I think at the end of the day, the practices that have been put into place that you may have felt in our classes too, have helped really grow this team into what it is. There's a lot of strength here. There's a lot of fun here, but there's a lot of hard work here too. And a lot of, there have been hard moments where we've all just kind of put our heads down together and moved through the hard moments as a team with a lot of support and a lot of. Cort Sharp (35:12) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (35:15) Just trying to be in it and be like kind of move things where it needs to go. I don't know what the right word is as a team. It's redundant. Cort Sharp (35:22) I think it. Yeah. But I think that that does show in our classes a lot, right? You and I have both taken a class outside of the mountain goat sphere, ⁓ and I'm not I'm not dogging on anyone. I'm not trying to talk down on anyone. But I got out of that class. I was like, man, we are light years ahead of that. Laura Kendrick (35:30) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Cort Sharp (35:49) that kind of interaction and that kind of experience. was the information that I got out of that class was awesome, superb. It was great. But just the amount of energy and effort and time that has been invested into these Mountain Goat courses, it's far and away just, it shows. And it shows how much of a level up it is to take a class with Mountain Goat. And I do think partly, you know, I'm boosting my own ego here. But I do think partly it is because we are surrounded with some awesome people and we have some awesome people working together and awesome support on every call, every class that you take with us, right? You don't have to, like the instructor can focus on just instructing. And we, more often than not, we are typically in charge of everything else. Make sure that any tech problems, any issues, anything that's going on, right? Yeah. Laura Kendrick (36:32) Yeah. Yeah. I remember the early days. Like you just brought up a memory that apparently I had stored in the trauma bank. I remember the early days though being, because I would often, because I'm on the East Coast, court is in mountain times. So, often I would be the early person just because it's easier for me. was mid morning for me. we would start class and it would be just, especially honestly when like people were figuring out Zoom and all this stuff, it was... stressful. Like they were just, it was just question, question, question, problem, problem, problem. And we would get to the first breakout and I would send everyone away and the instructor would be like, that was great. And I'm like, was, you know, just totally frazzled. But the point was, is no one else felt that. And it was, I was in my Slack and working with the team, working with Hunter, things fixed, working with Lisa, making sure the person was in the right place. Cort Sharp (37:20) Yeah, glad. Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (37:33) and doing all these things. And though that has died down because we've all gotten very good at our job and the systems in place are amazing at this point, it still is like, that's the whole point. We worked as a team so that the instructor could deliver an amazing class and be present with his students. And we could be here or her, because we do have hers too, I should say. They're students. And we were here taking care of the things that needed to be taken care of, which was, yeah. Cort Sharp (37:54) Yes. Laura Kendrick (38:00) Though I had forgotten about that. Thanks for that. Cort Sharp (38:02) Yeah, sure. Yeah, it's gotten easy, right? ⁓ Laura Kendrick (38:04) Yeah, it does. But that's at the end of the day, that's how a good team is. I think that we can kind of end it with this thing of Mike has created this environment and it definitely comes from him. Like it's is rooted in the founder for us because we're a small team, small but mighty. But he it's rooted in his like engine of creativity, efficiency, and just love of innovation. And that has kind of Cort Sharp (38:18) Mm-hmm. Laura Kendrick (38:34) folding that in with seeing all the people as humans, and with flaws and different talents and all those things and human interaction is messy and folding all of that in has actually been what has bred these amazing class experiences for our students and also this rewarding and fantastic team experience for the people behind the scenes as well. And I think the lesson Cort Sharp (38:39) Yes. Yep. Laura Kendrick (38:59) comes from that, that if we can fold those things in together and make space for humans to be humans and also have this amazing expectation of creativity and innovation, then it's all going to happen. Cort Sharp (39:06) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I 100 % agree with that. I mean, it does come down to Mike and Mike is a fantastic leader. It's awesome. I also want to raise Mike, but. Laura Kendrick (39:28) Nice. Not passive aggressive at all. On that note. Cort Sharp (39:29) Yeah, you know. No. I'm just joking, right? We're able to have fun. We're able to joke around. But it does come down to leadership, right? And I think that's true on any team. And we have just we've been so fortunate to be able to experience it firsthand and go through this awesome transformation from being in person to fully remote, even in the class teaching stuff. And it's been really, really fun. really, really enjoyable. I, you know, you don't love every day. There are jobs, right? It's a job. But I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. It has been fun. It has been enjoyable. But I don't look back on it and be like, wow, these last five years were just all terrible. No, it's we've had great leadership. We've had great interactions with with everyone. And I think Laura Kendrick (40:05) You should have just left it at really, really fun and enjoyable. Mic drop, goodbye. Cort Sharp (40:28) It's just come down to the people that we're working with and the people that we're engaging with consistently. And our leadership, Mike, has fostered an environment very, very well that is around fun, around communication, around enabling us to grow, to learn, to try new things, to move forward. And I really feel bad for companies who don't have that kind of leadership. that's, it's a tough spot to be in, but, I'm really, we're really blessed and really fortunate to, to be able to work here. And I hope this, this little peek behind the curtain, kind of encourages you to you, the listener, guess, whoever, whoever's out there to take a, take a little step back and say, okay, what, what am I doing as a leader within my sphere of influence to help my team be a little more human and embrace the humanity side of stuff? Not just pushing for more, we need more, more productivity, more AI, more everything, right? Yeah. Use AI, make it a tool, but just remember you're, building stuff for, for people. You're working with people all the time. And I think that's something that Mike has never forgotten and never will forget and never will let fall to the wayside that we're all people and we're all here working with each other. Laura Kendrick (41:43) Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Well, on that amazing note, thank you, Cort, for joining me in this hijacking of the podcast, the Agile Mentors podcast. And we're going to turn it back over to Brian, who's going to walk you right on out. Cort Sharp (41:54) Happy to.

  In this episode Diana interviews Tim Thomas, a veteran from Australia, who shares his experiences with breath work for stress management and healing. Tim recounts his military service, the abuse he faced due to his faith, and his mission to help soldiers who have attempted suicide. He elaborates on the transformative power of rest, overcoming PTSD, and breaking the isolation of trauma survivors. Tim's inspiring journey from a decorated soldier to a healer and advocate for veterans' mental health is both captivating and empowering.    https://breathworkinbed.com.au/ This link gives all listeners immediate access to improved sleep using the Breathwork in Bed App. Just hit the appropriate link for your phone and you'll get a 28 day free trial.   00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:21 Introducing Tim Thomas 02:25 Tim's Background and Mission 05:50 Tim's Faith Journey 13:50 Military Experience and Challenges 22:05 Overcoming Isolation and Fatigue 27:08 Shark Attack Story 28:17 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser   Bio:  Meet Tim Thomas—a man on a mission to transform lives and uplift the world, one night of quality sleep at a time. With over a decade of experience in the gritty, high-stakes world of veteran recovery, Tim brings an unparalleled depth of insight, forged through lived experiences in mental health, wellness, research, and breathwork. Alongside his team, he has raised over $1 million for impactful charities like the Gallipoli Medical Research Foundation, driving advancements in veteran health, and the Queensland Brain Institute, a global leader in neuroscience and mental health research. Tim's personal passion lies in helping people access the transformative power of rest and connection, showing how they fuel resilience, clarity, and fulfillment. He's not just a storyteller—he's a catalyst for change, inspiring audiences to unlock the hidden potential that comes with better sleep and a generous heart. Tim's energy is contagious, his insights are actionable, and his message will leave you empowered and excited. Get ready to hear stories that will captivate, strategies that inspire, and a perspective that will challenge everything you thought you knew about wellness. Let Tim take you on a journey you'll never forget.   Website: https://dswministries.org Email: diana@dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Tim Thomas Part 1 [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hey everyone. Welcome back to the podcast. So glad to have you with me today. We have a great episode for you and this one will be from down under. We've had some, friends on the podcast from Australia, and so today we also have a guest from Australia, Tim Thomas. We are going to talk about breath work and how that helps with stress management and healing. I myself have [00:01:00] done some breath work with my psychiatrist, and believe it or not, it has really helped me. So I'm really intrigued about hearing what he has to say about breath work. But he is also gonna tell his story about being in the military in Australia and how he suffered abuse for his faith and what he did, to overcome that. And we'll talk about his, work he's doing, to help, soldiers who have attempted suicide, which that is really, really amazing to save lives like that. I'm gonna read you a little bit about his bio. Meet Tim Thomas, A man on a mission to transform lives and uplift the world, one night of quality sleep at a time. With over a decade of experience in the gritty, high stakes world of veteran recovery. Tim brings an unparalleled depth of insight forged through lived [00:02:00] experiences in mental health, wellness, research, and breath work. Alongside his team, he has raised over 1 million or impact charities like the Gallipoli Medical Research Foundation, driving advancements in veteran health and the Queensland Brain Institute, a global leader in neuroscience and mental health research. Tim's personal passion lies in helping people access the transformative power of rest and connection, showing how they fuel resilience, clarity, and fulfillment. He's not only a storyteller. He's a catalyst for change, inspiring audiences to unlock the hidden potential that comes with better sleep and a generous heart . Who doesn't need more sleep, right? Tim's energy is contagious, i'll tell you. His message will leave you empowered and excited. So get ready to hear some stories that will captivate and strategies that are going [00:03:00] to inspire. A perspective that will change everything you thought you knew about wellness. So here we go. Please welcome my guest today, Tim Thomas. Alright, welcome Tim Thomas to the show from down under and it's, uh, 11 o'clock tomorrow over there. Yep. This is coming to you live from the future. Or time travelers. So, we've had a couple guests from Australia and tell us what is a thing about Australia that maybe is a myth or something that isn't true? What, yeah, sure. Okay. So you guys have, uh, Thanksgiving Uhhuh where you, where you carve up the, the Turkey. We have Thanksgiving here as well, but we carve up a kangaroo. Really? I didn't know that. No, you don't. What do you serve with it? Oh, you don't? Oh, you're joking. I'm just, I'm just kidding you. Oh, you see my [00:04:00] eyeballs go really big. No, they're, they're too hard to catch. Yeah, I, I venture that. People think that, you know, crocodiles live in your backyard and, you have kangaroos as pets, but that's not true. Is it? No, although I was fortunate enough to grow up with my father working with the Aboriginals, and so, eating kangaroos, eating, anything that crawled or, walked on the ground was part of my, uh, diet growing up. Yeah, my dad actually worked in the church, with the indigenous, in some very low socioeconomic, circumstances. There's on the YouTube, there's those clips called Restoring Faith in Humanity, where there's these acts of kindness to people that could, you know, never potentially repay it. But that was just my day to day seeing my parents and their sincere, service, going beyond any sort of physical restraint. The older I get, the more I [00:05:00] appreciate it. I like that. Tell us how you came to know the Lord. What was your spiritual background? You mentioned your, family in the ministry. How did you know, Jesus personally? What did that look like for you? Well, having a faith based background, you think, you know, going to church every week, Sunday school, my father was the pastor, uh, that I would have a faith and I did, but I feel like it was someone else's. I didn't really own it. And the thing is, there's no bottom to the depth of the relationship. So I'm always finding this new depth of relationship, which makes the old relationship redundant. You know, letting the old self die. What you once clinging to and almost to find yourself with, you've gotta literally let that die and allow yourself to, to be transformed. And I've had, uh, quite a few deepening transformative experiences, most of which come out of, uh, [00:06:00] getting in some way, shape, or form broken. And there was something that happened. So my background is, I was a professional fighter, in the early mixed martial arts scene, which was, no rules fighting is what they called it back in the nineties. Mm-hmm. Uh, I joined the special forces and. Before you go on deployment, they get you to write a letter to your loved ones, uh, in case you die. And that was very confronting for a lot of guys. So you coming up against, you know, fear of death, uh, and, and fear in general, right? Mm-hmm. And I thought, well, there was only one time in the Bible where Jesus was afraid, and that was in the garden of Gethsemane. And he wasn't just a little scared. He was so scared he was bleeding blood. and I started thinking, why was he so scared? Why was he so fearful? And I'm like, it can't be for any fear of physical pain because I. I know guys, I can just flick [00:07:00] a switch and they can control their physical pain. And, and I'm sure he had that ability, he had power over his physical body. And I started thinking, what Jesus was really afraid about was that when he was on that cross and he was bearing our sins, he couldn't be with God. So this bond that had been there since the beginning of time, for the first time ever was actually severed. Mm-hmm. And Jesus, for the first time ever in his, in the in, since the beginning of conceivable time, he was alone. He was completely alone. So yes, he experienced everything that us humans experienced while he was here, but he did something that none of us, I. need to experience, and that is separation from God. Yeah. So when he was on that cross, that was Easter is a time of loneliness. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? You know that, it's a bit like, you've got a child, you just put 'em outta the car and drive off. There's no physical harm being done, but those golden threads get severed. So, because I saw that, [00:08:00] because Jesus experienced separation from God, we never have to, and it doesn't matter if I'm alive or I'm dead, I'm doing well, I'm doing poorly. Nothing's gonna separate us because of Jesus experiencing that separation for us. And I, I completely lost my fear of death, um, to the point where I literally had fun with it, you know? Um, I remember guy saying, Tommo, you're not supposed to be having so much fun. But, that was my detachment from, from any fear because I, I realized that nothing could separate us. Oh, I Amen. To that. Wow. So when was your faith real to you? Was there a, a particular event that happened in your life, or? Well, to be honest, I have played in both realms. You might call it the woowoo, energy, whatever you wanna call it, um, new age. But there are some principles that they have in there and they talk about, uh, lower energy frequencies or what we would call in the Christian faith sins, you know? Mm-hmm. Fear, anger, hatred, you [00:09:00] know, lower energy frequencies. And if you are stuck in those frequencies, then you can't transcend to the higher connection with the divine, and then the difference between, your lower energies and your higher energies is courage. And as a Christian you'd say letting the old self die, that which you are familiar with. Okay? I always know Tim, as this particular type of person, this is what I do. This is what I think, this is how I react. And so to. To let go of that and to let that self die. And it is essentially a death, takes a lot of courage to step into the unknown. It's that leap of faith, catch me, Jesus. And, so I found it very useful to use the, technical breakdown in the sort of woowoo space to help me access the sins that I've been hanging onto. All the poison I'd been drinking to try and help hurt [00:10:00] other people. And I'm sure I was still saved by grace, but to, I think we naturally connect with God provided the blockages are removed. But we tend to hang onto these blockages. We hang onto to that which we are familiar with. I was very familiar with going, that person wronged me and I'm angry, so I want revenge. Or I might say I forgive them in my head. And yeah. But that just means that, I've cut them outta my life and I hope God punishes them some way somehow. You know? Yeah. That's not really connecting to something higher. And the way I sort of saw it was, you can draw these wrongs or sins closer to you. Uh, and so, my pathway to a living, breathing, active relationship with God and the divine, has me understanding that it does start in this physical space. It does start with me getting forgiveness for the things that have me in fear, shame, guilt. So, I'm a big fan of breath work and if you wanna look at it from the parable of, the [00:11:00] king giving his servant talents, pieces of gold, do something with it. And then when I return , I'll see what you've done with it. So inside of us is this, let's just say gold. And my experience of my true connection with the divine is he's given me this bag of meat around this wondrous, gold. And when this bag of meat does what I've been put here to do, it's like, it lines up to, to amplify the gold that's inside of me. And that's unique to each individual. Some people get it through playing music, some people get it, with exercise, some people, me, it was combat. I have to be honest. I feel like God put me here to do the things I was made to do. Ah, when, I believe, you're on, purpose. When energy's like money, how you invest, it's how you get it back. And when you are doing the thing that you felt you've been put here to do, you get an incredible reward. So when I started tapping into, getting rid [00:12:00] of the sin, the lower energy stuff and getting into the divine, uh, that's when it became like a daily loving, abundant. I have to reconnect, realign, and, to get that power, get that abundance. We get lost. We get lost in what we can see. We're a very visual society, so we're only looking at what we can see and, what is unseen is what's, super powerful. That's the stuff that I tend to lean into because, and I don't think we say this loudly enough. A man's happiness and generosity is relative to how powerful he feels. 'cause if you wanna see an unhappy stingy guy, I they're not feeling powerful. And I believe that starts with us. So I tell my son, our power starts with us. Um, I hope that lands, so you've probably heard the phrase, you are a soul. You have a body. You heard that before? Yep. Yep. And so a lot of people, they mix it up as they have a body and my soul's here just for the ride. It's, no, we are a soul. We are spiritual. And, yeah. I think, [00:13:00] folks can relate to what you've been saying. You, mentioned your military experience in Australia. Now I'm familiar with American military 'cause I come from a military family. Uh, but what is it like in Australia? Are there any differences? What is it like being a soldier there? Well, I would say it's, I've worked with some of the US troops, and to be honest, I didn't see there was too much difference. Of course as Australians, we'd just say we're much tougher than the US troops. But, but no, I work with some really, switched on guys from the us the Navy Seals in their special forces of selection, they got a hell week. In the Australian Commandos, we have a hell 28 days. Oh, okay. So something similar. And, you mentioned that you had gone through some abuse because of your faith. Was that connected to your military service or in, other areas of your lives? Well, I will caveat this. I struggled with military, [00:14:00] culture and I was always trying to figure it out. So I was always asking questions and, asking questions was probably not encouraged, but I always did it. Uh, so I was always that guy. So insecure alpha males always need someone to, you know, kick sand in the face of, 'cause that to them there's only so much energy in the room, so they have to take it, um, from someone else. And. there was a drinking culture there hanging out with the boys. You know, I had a young family. I didn't hang out with them. And I also had a Christian faith. And I remember there was one particular sergeant that, really tried to break me. Mm-hmm. And the thing is, my physical body, you can't break. You know, my, my mind, you can't break. I'm too tough. You know, I'm connected to something so powerful. but then something happened that I didn't expect. He managed to attack the people I cared mostly about. So I was on deployment and I made a promise to my then wife. I call her my then wife, not my ex-wife. 'cause I, I stand for a positive future. and I promised my then wife that I'd write her a letter every day. And this particular [00:15:00] sergeant, , said, um, you, that's a security risk. We want to take your laptop off you. Now, my wife had given birth, uh, to our second born two weeks before deployment. Mm-hmm. And I had all the pictures of my wife giving birth, my kids in the bath on this hard drive. Mm mm-hmm. And he took the hard drive and he put it on the, the army's equivalent of the internet so anyone could see it. And I'd never been in a situation where the people I cared about most was used against me like that, you know? And obviously that freaked my then wife out, you know, and she was scared that her milk will dry up. She was so stressed. And now then that then of course freaked me the hell out, and so I'd never been. Like, I got a, armor of God man, but it was like a knife got un underneath under all of it hit my heart and I just bled out. and I, I literally, in this lucid state, I saw a bird fly out from inside of me, just jump around in a rock and then fly off. And I'm like, what is [00:16:00] that? And I was later to realize that was the bluebird of happiness leaving me, and for about a decade there, 'cause, and when I went back to Australia and I, and you know, they decompress you with psychological stuff and, and I shared that the psychologist re reacted how you react and said, that is so wrong. Right? Yeah. Um, and so I put in what's called a an ROG redress of grievance. That's when the second layer of abuse started happening, because what the army is particularly good at is if you challenge rank, and I was just a private Okay. Nothing, nobody, oh, you know? Right. So, so they all thought, well, he's an external threat. Let's all bond together and, and screw this guy over a second time. So on every level, people who are really friendly then just treated me like I was invisible. No one would talk to me on base, yeah, I was kind of dead inside for the longest time, and, it really impacted my relationship with my then wife. Um, I was, it was the classic term where my [00:17:00] husband came back from deployment a different man, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, Out of all that because I'm, I'm the toughest guy I know, right? Yeah. No, no one can break me. But the thing is, God put me in that place because it's not so much what we do that gives us value to others. It's what we've come through. And, and I had to go through that so I could actually have a heart having empathy for other people needing healing. You know, I was one of those tough guys that, if you couldn't handle it, bugger off mate. You can't handle it. Get out. There is a time and a place for that. There is a time and a place. I think this country is made great by that, but it's not the only option that, that is in your tool belt. What I didn't know was that when I got out, something happened when I got out. So in 2011, I think it was April. And this is just a true story. So I, I'd reached rock bottom. Well, long story short, I was about to kill a man. The Australian government wasn't paying me. Uh, this is gonna be murder. Mm-hmm. [00:18:00] Um, I'd, I'd reach rock bottom. PSDI didn't even know I had, I just had to drink half a car and a grog every night before I spoke to my then wife. Family was going to hell. what do you do when you're experiencing something you've never experienced before? And you need help or you see a psychologist? And that was such a strange concept for me, Diana, because I'm hurting and I've gotta go speak to a stranger. How does that make sense? I don't know this guy. I don't trust him. So I am completely triggered just driving in there, right? And after I told him all I saw in service, all the abuse, this guy wasn't just incompetent. Incompetency I can handle. This guy was apathetic. And at the end he's like, oh, so you think it was a problem with your mom and dad? And, and everything in the room just froze. And I saw he had a glass framed, you know, psychology degree behind him. And it made a lot of sense to grab that and feed it to him because he was a healer and he was supposed to be healing people, but he wasn't just not healing people, he was harming people. And in my state of [00:19:00] disconnection it made sense to do that. So I get outta my chair to do it. And this, this is really real, right? But then I felt this hand on my chest saying, red flag, Tim, you're the toughest guy. You know how many other guys are struggling in a, in this system that doesn't seem to care or want you to get better? And that's when I sat back down, Diana. And then I saw them, I saw all these people left and right of me just willing me on saying, you know, Tim, if you can find a way forward for you, you can find a way forward for us. And, and I really need people who are listening to this to draw this question to them. ' cause I didn't just go through that for myself. All right, there's a spirit at work here. Everyone's up against something. And the the golden question I asked, I invite everyone to ask, and that is how many other people are in your situation right now? And that, that's a real question. Give it a real number. And, and when I looked to my left and my right, there was no depth of people in my space. And I thought, well, look. It doesn't [00:20:00] matter if it takes me a week, a month, a year, a decade, I've gotta find a way forward. 'cause if I can find a way forward for me, I can find a way forward for them. And if it takes me a decade, I'm pretty sure that's the amount of time I'm gonna be able to save these people. And I was pretty sure that at some point in the future there's gonna be people that possibly haven't even met yet. Really glad I made a decision to move forward positively as opposed to going to jail. I understand that you saved, what, 17 people from committing suicide? Uh, I, I stopped counting at over 40. Oh, well that's even better. Um, I'd certainly like to hear more , about that. Okay. So my lifetime goal was to say, 'cause we've lost about 40 troops to bombs and bullets in Afghanistan, in Australia. But we've lost 30 or 40 times that amount to suicide. And so I had this goal in my head that if I can, save, 40 guys from suicide, I'll die a happy man. I don't care if it takes the rest of my life. This is what I wanna do. and I had no qualifications, but God had prepared me for this. So I'm [00:21:00] dyslexic. I, failed high school, but I could see patterns. And the pattern I saw happening is, is something that the mainstream spreadsheet never saw. And that was this. And these two things enabled me to save those 40 guys within a year. All right, so this is, this is powerful stuff that I'm showing. I need everyone to listen to this. It doesn't matter if the pain's physical or emotional for us humans, it'll get to a certain duration or intensity that it transforms from just pain into loneliness and isolation. And when we're all alone, when we're feeling isolated, all sorts of crazy crap. It can be justifiable. I was about to kill a man, and that was justifiable in my isolated state, but my isolation was broken. When I asked the question, how many other people are going through this? So I saw that, of all the millions of dollars of resources that get poured into veteran, it's all water off a duck's back if you're not breaking the isolation. And it's as simple as understanding that, especially for us guys [00:22:00] when we experience trauma. Yeah, we want to talk about it, but we are waiting for another, especially we need another bloke who has walked the same path to speak the unspoken words inside our hearts. So we've got these unspoken words that we can't speak ourselves, that we need to hear another guy who's walked that path. Speak, and then all of a sudden the jaw pops open. And I can't say what they normally say, but let's just say they say things like, gee whiz, I thought I was the only one going through this. Exactly. So, so breaking the isolation is the first step that it cannot and should not stay there. Uh, a lot of people get stuck in the feel goods of breaking the isolation. Oh, I'm not the only one going through this. Right? And veterans are really good at forming these anti-social social groups where, oh, look, we've broken our isolation, but I can only be myself around these people, and I'm only around them for one hour a week. You know, for the other times, I have to sort of go back [00:23:00] in my shell, right? Mm-hmm. So, yes, breaking the isolation's the first point, but it can't stop there. The next point that needs to be, uh, addressed is the plain and simple fatigue. I'm alone and isolated. I'm the only one that's got my back. I can't drop my guard for a second. Everything's a threat. 'cause everything is a threat. So I'm not sleeping, if I drop my guard, something bad's gonna happen. It's gonna be my fault. And it's this loop and it just becomes normal. Not sleeping, being hypervigilant, drinking lots of alcohol, lots of substances. And I made the mistake of telling the doctor I couldn't sleep and I lost six years of my life to pills, and initially i'm like, this is great long service, leaving a bottle. But no one tells you the cost of taking them. Yes, there's a benefit, but there's a massive cost. You get something, but it takes something from you. Mm-hmm. I lost a lot of memories. That's kind of a, a real gray patch in my life. Those six years I was on all these pills and I'm pretty sure I lost a bunch of memories from before that. So I. There's a time and a place for pills. They're [00:24:00] sometimes are lesser of two evils, but no one tells you the cost and especially nobody tells you just how hard it is to come off these things. Mm-hmm. You know, if you wanna feel like a minute, turns into an hour, be in the kind of pain that the withdrawals put through your system. I, I nearly went completely insane coming off of these things. So point I'm trying to make here is the two things I did that say 40 guys within, um, a year, and then I stopped counting, was breaking the isolation. And I want all the listeners to understand that what you are up against when you come through that, that gives you the qualification to break the isolation of other people going through it. You know, my pathway was a veteran, but it could be breast cancer, it could be a relationship, it could be anything. Whatever you're up against, you get through that. Live the life you wanna live. That gives you the qualification to break the isolation. Now, you might not say anything that that person hasn't heard before, but coming from you and your lived experience, you can put that from their head [00:25:00] into their heart, into their soul spirit. And then they get a chance to start making powerful choices, in a place of connection. And then getting them out of fatigue was where, when they gave me a bunch of pills, I didn't know breath work was something that could alkalize my neural pathways, turn my overthinking head off, give my body peace, give my body healing. It is the piece that transcends all human understandings. And I, and I don't just wanna talk about this there, there'll be a time at the end of this podcast where we'll have a lived experience of this. those 40 lives were saved by two simple PR principles that aren't addressed. Breaking the isolation, through authentically spoken words. I've got six pages of weapons I'm qualified in, but the most powerful thing I own is the authenticity in the words coming outta my mouth. That literally changes the axis of the world. And then getting people out of fatigue because people have 98% of everything they need inside of them. But if they're feeling [00:26:00] alone, if they're feeling fatigued, they can't access their own resources. But when their isolation is broken and they're out of fatigue, it's like their inner compass just turns on and it, and they, they know where they need to go. And it's just, it's, it's amazing how little people need when they get exactly what they want. Um, yeah, definitely. You know, I know there's a shark story somewhere. How does the shark come into play with, is that, just something you survived or is that. Oh, look, that was a fun NBE near death experience where, um, okay. Yeah. Very relevant. It was the classic one where you have your life flashing before your eyes. Right. Um, and the important part about this isn't so much the shark attack in the, in the context of a, a, let's say Christian faith afterwards, because I, I love the ocean, I love spearfishing. And there's always sharks where there's fish when we're chasing fish. There's, it's always a good sign when there's sharks around because that tells you you're in the right area. [00:27:00] And it's a fun story. Like this thing had my leg, and I don't believe it when people say, oh, I punched it and then it went away. I'm stabbing this thing in the eye and it's not letting go. And I'm about to drown, right? As a fighter, I've taken a lot of hits, but never, ever, ever has my body felt like a ragdoll being shaken by a dog. Mm-hmm. Um, so I literally felt that my body going, oh yeah, yeah. Like just so rapidly shook. I'm like, whoa. This is a great place to stop and continue. Next time on the podcast, I know that you'll wanna hear the rest of his story and what helpful things does he have for us to better our health and and handle the stress and heal from our trauma. So [00:28:00] thanks for listening today. I wish you a great week, and we'll see you back next time on the Wounds of The Faithful Podcast.  

J'ai décidé de tout reprendre de zéro. La newsletter de La Cohorte va changer… et je t'explique pourquoi. Dans cette MM, je reviens sur la V1 des “Notes de La Cohorte” et sur les raisons qui m'ont poussée à tout effacer (malgré le temps passé dessus). Je raconte ma galère avec l'IA (coucou

Mon loulou de Poméranie, tu veux commencer à vendre? Mieux connaître ton client-cible? Obtenir des références et étoffer ton portfolio? Alors créé une offre “Pied dans la porte”! Je t'explique comment faire dans cette MM. Si tu as des questions, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

What's really going on with the global economy? Is the U.S. heading for a recession — and could the UK be among the worst hit? Anatole Kaletsky, Chief Economist at Gavekal and author of Capitalism 4.0, argues that both the U.S. and UK are stuck in outdated, pre-2008 economic thinking. He warns of a U.S. recession before year-end, a potential fiscal crisis in the UK, and a major shift in global economic power. ✅ Check if you're doing the ‘right thing' with a financial adviser https://makingmoney.email/financial-advisors-audio

Recently, Sarah was working with a BDM (salesperson) who believed she was ready to hire a sales setter to help with some of the sales outreach and follow up. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss how to know when you need to hire a sales setter and things you can do to increase your sales volume without one. You'll Learn [00:43] The Importance of Having Sales Metrics and Data  [05:45] Setting Your Salesperson Up for Success [07:57] More Volume = More Results [09:47] The Two Main Components of Sales Quotables “There are certain things that we're gauging all the time in our business, but I think sales has to be probably number one.” “ You have a BDM and they're good at sales and you have them doing anything other than sales, you are making a very stupid mistake because that's the lifeblood of the business.” “Just do more of the things that you should be doing and you'll get more results.” “If something's not working, you just got to not tolerate it.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: I bet you, you can just get more results by doing more work, which means stop doing the other things that you're doing. [00:00:05] Sarah: Just do more of the things that you should be doing and you'll get more results. And then you can probably don't even need to pay a setter. [00:00:12] Jason: We are Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. And we're going to keep this episode a little brief, so I'm going to skip some of our intro. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:00:31] Jason: We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show.  [00:00:41] Jason: Alright. What are we chatting about today?  [00:00:43] Sarah: Alright. I wanted to talk about this just because I think it happens a lot in business and we have to just kind of gauge, right? So there are certain things that we're gauging all the time in our business, but I think sales has to be probably number one. So one of our clients had asked me last week on the scale call she's a BDM, so she does all the sales and she said, "Hey, we are actually thinking about hiring an appointment setter. And they will kind of help with a lot of the outbound calls and you know, the follow up and the scheduling and you know, rescheduling any appointments and just kind of like staying on top of things and making sure that everything is being tracked and, you know, moving forward and doing a whole bunch of outbound calls." [00:01:36] Sarah: That's really what setters do is they just sit and call all day long. Yeah. So she says, "yeah, we're thinking about hiring this sales setter, and I want to know what you think about it." So the first thing I did is I was like, okay, if you actually need a sales setter, then like, here's the Rdoc and that's great. [00:01:56] Sarah: Like, we would hire a sales setter...  [00:01:58] Jason: which is a job description for those unfamiliar.  [00:02:00] Sarah: Yes. So we would hire a sales setter the same way that we would hire A BDM. Mm-hmm. I always recommend going through the DoorGrow Hiring process, but before we really dig into the hiring piece is we should first figure out is this actually something that you need right now? [00:02:16] Sarah: So one of the tools that we have for our clients in our client workbook is a sales tracker, and I happened to pull up the sales tracker for them just out of curiosity. And lucky for me, she had actually filled it out. So my one recommendation is for whoever is doing sales, and if it's multiple people, then that's fine. Multiple people need to then fill out the sales tracker. So fill out the sales tracker at the end of every single day. This is like your end of day report.  [00:02:42] Sarah: If you have two BDMs, then they both need to be doing it. If you have a, BDM and a setter, they both need to be doing it. It doesn't matter. [00:02:50] Sarah: Every single sales person needs to be filling out and submitting their own data and metrics. So I said, well, let me look through your sales tracker. Now, she did not have it filled out consistently every day. There were some days that she had it filled out. There were some days that were not filled out. [00:03:07] Sarah: And then there were some days that had pretty solid data, and there were some days that had like, you know, "I did three to four hours," or "I did, you know, six to eight appointments." Well, is it six, is it seven or is it eight? So don't give me like the range, give me the actual raw data. So I was looking through this, and even with the data that she had in there, I was able to kind of make an assessment. [00:03:31] Sarah: I said, "listen, if this was my business, I would not be, at this point in time, I would not be looking at hiring a sales setter. The reason being is that with the resources that we currently have, which is A BDM, what we need to do is just turn up the volume for the BDM. And once that BDM is totally maxed out, then we can look to see, hey, do we actually need some additional support? [00:03:59] Sarah: And that might be a sales setter. So what I was noticing, and now she's a newer hire. She's been there only a few months and she's doing a great job so far. So. The early on data, she was still in training and onboarding and learning and kind of testing and figuring things out. And you could see that as you go down the list, the later the date, the better results that she was getting. [00:04:24] Sarah: So in the very beginning, she was maybe doing like half an hour or 45 minutes a day, and later on in the list she was doing, you know, one to two hours and then she was doing three to four hours. And then she tends to do about four hours a day on average now. And then same thing with phone calls. [00:04:41] Sarah: You know, she would do, you know, a couple of phone calls in the beginning and then later on down in the data you would see, hey, she was doing more phone calls, she was getting, doing more time. She was doing more phone calls. She was setting more appointments, and therefore some things were starting to close. [00:04:58] Sarah: But what I could also see is that she is not fully maxed out.  [00:05:01] Jason: Right.  [00:05:01] Sarah: So if we have a BDM who is full-time, meaning at least 30, maybe even 40 hours a week, and they're doing four hours per day, that's like 20 hours a week. So that's like part-time BDM work. Yeah. So then what is happening with the rest of the time? [00:05:18] Sarah: So I said, "first of all, anything that you are doing at all that does not have to do with sales, cut it out immediately. Stop it. If you're on like client success meetings, because the property manager was also on that call." Yeah. So, and I know that they work in tandem. They work as a team, which is really great. [00:05:34] Sarah: Like the team culture there is fantastic. But when you're dragging the salespeople into the customer service side.  [00:05:42] Jason: Big mistake.  [00:05:43] Sarah: You're costing yourself so much money.  [00:05:45] Jason:  I want to comment on that just real quick. I mean, everybody listening, if you have anybody in your organization that's good at sales, whether it's you that should be doing the sales and you don't have anyone else to do it, and you're the business owner, or you have a BDM and they're good at sales and you have them doing anything other than sales, you are making a very stupid mistake because that's the lifeblood of the business. They feed the business, they pay everybody else's salary. They're the only people that bring money, fresh money into the business. And they should not be dabbling as a property manager. They should not be dabbling as a leasing agent. They should not be dabbling or picking up slack for anybody else. [00:06:27] Jason: No. Hire other people if you need to, but get your salesperson spending full time spending their time on sales if they're good and they will make you a lot of money. And having them do anything else is a massive waste of a resource.  [00:06:40] Sarah: Absolutely. I've said it like this before, if you have a star quarterback on a football team, do you want that quarterback doing any other, like playing any other position? [00:06:50] Jason: I like that analogy.  [00:06:51] Sarah: Do you want them kicking? Do you want them walking? Do you want them to be a tight end?  [00:06:54] Jason: No, there'd be dumb. No.  [00:06:56] Sarah: Why? Why on earth would you do that? No. If I've got somebody who can hurl that ball with pinpoint precision and accuracy to any spot on the field at will... [00:07:08] Jason: don't make them a kicker. [00:07:09] Sarah: I got to preserve that resource. And then I'm like, that's literally the only thing you're going to do.  [00:07:14] Jason: The kickers, kick. That's all the kickers do. The kickers do one thing. They just kick the ball's. That's it, and they're not used very often. Like, it would be ridiculous to say, "you know what, kicker, why don't you also occasionally be our backup quarterback?" [00:07:26] Jason: Like, you're second string now. Like, it just, it doesn't make sense. If he could be a quarterback, he would not be a kicker.  [00:07:32] Sarah: Right.  [00:07:33] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:33] Sarah: Yeah. So I said, anything that you're doing that is not sales, stop it immediately. Like today. Don't stop it. Monday. Stop it today. Okay. That's it, period. That's number one. [00:07:43] Sarah: Then number two, we need to just get more time out of you. So if you're doing, you know, four hours a day, what's the rest of your time being spent doing? So we just needed, we need to spend more time and then we just need to increase the number of calls. So she actually happens to be in my accountability group. So that call was Friday. Every Monday, we have a telegram group that it's real quick, it's just an accountability group. We set a personal goal and a professional goal for the upcoming week, and then we give updates on the previous week. And her goal for monday, like this past Monday was to do a minimum of 100 calls per day after our call on Friday. [00:08:24] Sarah: Which is awesome because I said, "you have to increase the volume. Yeah. So that you can get more results. And then once we have the volume increased so much that you cannot add anymore. You are absolutely maxed out. You can't add more time without, you know, working like 80 hours a week. [00:08:40] Sarah: We can't add more time. We can't do more calls. We can't possibly like squeeze any more, you know, blood from the stone. Now I know you're maxed out. Now it might make sense to look at either hiring another BDM or hiring a setter.  [00:08:55] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:55] Sarah: But right now, you are not maxed out. All you need to do is just increase your volume so that you can get more results, because I bet you, you can just get more results by doing more work, which means stop doing the other things that you're doing. [00:09:06] Sarah: Just do more of the things that you should be doing and you'll get more results. And then you can probably don't even need to pay a setter.  [00:09:14] Jason: Yeah. So we have three setters. Yesterday they made 200 calls between the three of them. And they each booked... on a Monday.... they each... yeah, on a Monday, which is hard for property manager, for property managers.  [00:09:24] Sarah: Come on. [00:09:24] Jason: And they each booked a one appointment, which is pretty good. But that's a lot of calls. And we have a lot of other growth engines installed at DoorGrow, but we're getting almost 300 calls a day. And we'll probably add some more setters, but like, we're doing outreach and so this is the game. [00:09:41] Jason: This is the game. And if you're not putting in the numbers, but you're like, "maybe it's not working," you don't get the game. Yeah.  [00:09:47] Sarah: So my big thing is there's two things. There are two main components of sales, and almost every single, if not every single problem that you have in sales. It all boils down to one of these two things I can almost guarantee it. [00:10:02] Sarah: One is volume, and two is AB testing. That's all sales is, and if you fix your volume and you AB test everything to optimize for best results, you will never have a sales problem.  [00:10:15] Jason: Yeah.  [00:10:15] Sarah: So that's what we figure out here at DoorGrow, how to have people optimize, AB testing and volume. And that's why our clients can get the results that they're able to. [00:10:26] Sarah: That's why our clients can get results that other people aren't able to. They're like, oh, I'm doing like all these calls. I'm doing all this stuff. Yeah, but you're not doing it. Either you're not doing enough or you're not AB testing the right way. And you're not using the right strategies. [00:10:38] Sarah: Yeah. I mean everything. Like, listen, I can give you a list of, you know, a thousand people and you can call them your way and we can call them our way and we'll get better results. Why? Because we've AB tested everything. Yeah. So it's always, it's either volume or AB testing. Yeah. [00:10:51] Sarah: Those two things. And you will never have a sales problem again.  [00:10:55] Jason: If something's not working, you just got to not tolerate it. That's the problem, is at each stage there's things that are not working if you're not getting deals, and if you don't change what's not working and you keep doing it the same way, you're going to keep getting the same result. And so this is what we coach on. We're like, cool. You need to fix that step now, this step in the pipeline, now this step. And until you get everything dialed in, it's not really working. But once you get the whole growth engine built out, it's all unclogged, the water's flowing, then you're making money. [00:11:25] Jason: And that's why I say it's the last 10% of getting things dialed in that gives you 90% of the results. All right.  [00:11:31] Sarah: All right.  [00:11:31] Jason: Okay, so if you felt stuck or stagnant and want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com. You can also join our free community at doorgrowclub.com, our Facebook group. [00:11:43] Jason: And if you found this even a little bit helpful, help us out. Don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone. 

Jeffrey Madoff is, as you will discover, quite a fascinating and engaging person. Jeff is quite the creative entrepreneur as this episode's title says. But he really is so much more.   He tells us that he came by his entrepreneurial spirit and mindset honestly. His parents were both entrepreneurs and passed their attitude onto him and his older sister. Even Jeffrey's children have their own businesses.   There is, however, so much more to Jeffrey Madoff. He has written a book and is working on another one. He also has created a play based on the life of Lloyd Price. Who is Lloyd Price? Listen and find out. Clue, the name of the play is “Personality”. Jeff's next book, “Casting Not Hiring”, with Dan Sullivan, is about the transformational power of theater and how you can build a company based on the principles of theater. It will be published by Hay House and available in November of this year.   My conversation with Jeff is a far ranging as you can imagine. We talk about everything from the meaning of Creativity to Imposture's Syndrome. I always tell my guests that Unstoppable Mindset is not a podcast to interview people, but instead I want to have real conversations. I really got my wish with Jeff Madoff. I hope you like listening to this episode as much as I liked being involved in it.       About the Guest:   Jeffrey Madoff's career straddles the creative and business side of the arts. He has been a successful entrepreneur in fashion design and film, and as an author, playwright, producer, and adjunct professor at Parsons School of Design. He created and taught a course for sixteen years called “Creative Careers Making A Living With Your Ideas”, which led to a bestselling book of the same name . Madoff has been a keynote speaker at Princeton, Wharton, NYU and Yale where he curated and moderated a series of panels entitled "Reframing The Arts As Entrepreneurship”. His play “Personality” was a critical and audience success in it's commercial runs at People's Light Theater in Pennsylvania and in Chicago and currently waiting for a theater on The West End in London.   Madoff's next book, “Casting Not Hiring”, with Dan Sullivan, is about the transformational power of theater and how you can build a company based on the principles of theater. It will be published by Hay House and available in November of this year. Ways to connect Jeffrey:   company website: www.madoffproductions.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/b-jeffrey-madoff-5baa8074/ www.acreativecareer.com Instagram: @acreativecareer   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Well, hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. We're glad to have you on board with us, wherever you happen to be. Hope the day is going well for you. Our guest today is Jeffrey Madoff, who is an a very creative kind of person. He has done a number of things in the entrepreneurial world. He has dealt with a lot of things regarding the creative side of the arts. He's written plays. He taught a course for 16 years, and he'll tell us about that. He's been a speaker in a variety of places. And I'm not going to go into all of that, because I think it'll be more fun if Jeffrey does it. So welcome to unstoppable mindset. We are really glad you're here and looking forward to having an hour of fun. And you know, as I mentioned to you once before, the only rule on the podcast is we both have to have fun, or it's not worth doing, right? So here   Jeffrey Madoff ** 02:13 we are. Well, thanks for having me on. Michael, well, we're really glad   Michael Hingson ** 02:17 you're here. Why don't we start as I love to do tell us kind of about the early Jeffrey growing up, and you know how you got where you are, a little bit or whatever.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 02:28 Well, I was born in Akron, Ohio, which at that time was the rubber capital of the world. Ah, so that might explain some of my bounce and resilience. There   Michael Hingson ** 02:40 you go. I was in Sandusky, Ohio last weekend, nice and cold, or last week,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 02:44 yeah, I remember you were, you were going to be heading there. And, you know, Ohio, Akron, which is in northern Ohio, was a great place to grow up and then leave, you know, so my my childhood. I have many, many friends from my childhood, some who still live there. So it's actually I always enjoy going back, which doesn't happen all that often anymore, you know, because certain chapters in one's life close, like you know, when my when my parents died, there wasn't as much reason to go back, and because the friends that I had there preferred to come to New York rather than me go to Akron. But, you know, Akron was a great place to live, and I'm very fortunate. I think what makes a great place a great place is the people you meet, the experiences you have. Mm, hmm, and I met a lot of really good people, and I was very close with my parents, who were entrepreneurs. My mom and dad both were so I come by that aspect of my life very honestly, because they modeled the behavior. And I have an older sister, and she's also an entrepreneur, so I think that's part of the genetic code of our family is doing that. And actually, both of my kids have their own business, and my wife was entrepreneurial. So some of those things just carry forward, because it's kind of what, you know, what did your parents do? My parents were independent retailers, and so they started by working in other stores, and then gradually, both of them, who were also very independent people, you know, started, started their own store, and then when they got married, they opened one together, and it was Women's and Children's retail clothing. And so I learned, I learned a lot from my folks, mainly from the. Behavior that I saw growing up. I don't think you can really lecture kids and teach them anything, yeah, but you can be a very powerful teacher through example, both bad and good. Fortunately, my parents were good examples. I think   Michael Hingson ** 05:14 that kids really are a whole lot more perceptive than than people think sometimes, and you're absolutely right, lecturing them and telling them things, especially when you go off and do something different than you tell them to do, never works. They're going to see right through it.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 05:31 That's right. That's right. And you know, my kids are very bright, and there was never anything we couldn't talk about. And I had that same thing with my parents, you know, particularly my dad. But I had the same thing with both my parents. There was just this kind of understanding that community, open communication is the best communication and dealing with things as they came up was the best way to deal with things. And so it was, it was, it was really good, because my kids are the same way. You know, there was always discussions and questioning. And to this day, and I have twins, I have a boy and girl that are 31 years old and very I'm very proud of them and the people that they have become, and are still becoming,   Michael Hingson ** 06:31 well and still becoming is really the operative part of that. I think we all should constantly be learning, and we should, should never decide we've learned all there is to learn, because that won't happen. There's always something new,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 06:44 and that's really what's fun. I think that you know for creativity and life at large, that constant curiosity and learning is fuel that keeps things moving forward, and can kindle the flame that lights up into inspiration, whether you're writing a book or a song or whatever it is, whatever expression one may have, I think that's where it originates. Is curiosity. You're trying to answer a question or solve a problem or something. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:20 and sometimes you're not, and it's just a matter of doing. And it doesn't always have to be some agenda somewhere, but it's good to just be able to continue to grow. And all too often, we get so locked into agendas that we don't look at the rest of the world around us.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 07:41 I Well, I would say the the agenda in and of itself, staying curious, I guess an overarching part of my agenda, but it's not to try to get something from somebody else, right, other than knowledge, right? And so I guess I do have an agenda in that. That's what I find interesting.   Michael Hingson ** 08:02 I can accept that that makes sense.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 08:06 Well, maybe one of the few things I say that does so thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 08:10 I wasn't even thinking of that as an agenda, but just a way of life. But I hear what you're saying. It makes sense. Oh, there are   Jeffrey Madoff ** 08:17 people that I've certainly met you may have, and your listeners may have, also that there always is some kind of, I wouldn't call it agenda, a transactional aspect to what they're doing. And that transactional aspect one could call an agenda, which isn't about mutual interest, it's more what I can get and or what I can sell you, or what I can convince you of, or whatever. And I to me, it's the the process is what's so interesting, the process of questioning, the process of learning, the process of expressing, all of those things I think are very powerful, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 09:03 yeah, I hear what you're saying. So for you, you were an Akron did you go to college there? Or what did you do after high school? So   Jeffrey Madoff ** 09:11 after high school, I went to the University of Wisconsin, ah, Madison, which is a fantastic place. That's right, badgers, that's right. And, and what really cinched the deal was when I went to visit the school. I mean, it was so different when I was a kid, because, you know, nowadays, the kids that my kids grew up with, you know, the parents would visit 18 schools, and they would, you know, they would, they would file for admission to 15 schools. And I did one in my parents. I said to them, can I take the car? I want to go check out the University. I was actually looking at Northwestern and the University of Wisconsin. And. And I was in Evanston, where Northwestern is located. I didn't see any kids around, and, you know, I had my parents car, and I finally saw a group of kids, and I said, where is everybody? I said, Well, it's exam week. Everybody's in studying. Oh, I rolled up the window, and without getting out of the car, continued on to Madison. And when I got to Madison, I was meeting somebody behind the Student Union. And my favorite band at that time, which was the Paul Butterfield blues band, was giving a free concert. So I went behind the Student Union, and it's a beautiful, idyllic place, lakes and sailboats and just really gorgeous. And my favorite band is giving a free concert. So decision made, I'm going University of Wisconsin, and it was a great place.   Michael Hingson ** 10:51 I remember when I was looking at colleges. We got several letters. Got I wanted to major in physics. I was always science oriented. Got a letter from Dartmouth saying you ought to consider applying, and got some other letters. We looked at some catalogs, and I don't even remember how the subject came up, but we discovered this University California campus, University California at Irvine, and it was a new campus, and that attracted me, because although physically, it was very large, there were only a few buildings on it. The total population of undergraduates was 2700 students, not that way today, but it was back when I went there, and that attracted me. So we reached out to the chair of the physics department, whose name we got out of the catalog, and asked Dr Ford if we could come and meet with him and see if he thought it would be a good fit. And it was over the summer between my junior and senior year, and we went down, and we chatted with him for about an hour, and he he talked a little physics to me and asked a few questions, and I answered them, and he said, you know, you would do great here. You should apply. And I did, and I was accepted, and that was it, and I've never regretted that. And I actually went all the way through and got my master's degree staying at UC Irvine, because it was a great campus. There were some professors who weren't overly teaching oriented, because they were so you research oriented, but mostly the teachers were pretty good, and we had a lot of fun, and there were a lot of good other activities, like I worked with the campus radio station and so on. So I hear what you're saying, and it's the things that attract you to a campus. Those count. Oh,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 12:35 yeah. I mean, because what can you really do on a visit? You know, it's like kicking the tires of a car, right? You know? Does it feel right? Is there something that I mean, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you do meet a faculty member or someone that you really connect with, and that causes you to really like the place, but you don't really know until you're kind of there, right? And Madison ended up being a wonderful choice. I loved it. I had a double major in philosophy and psychology. You know, my my reasoning being, what two things do I find really interesting that there is no path to making a good income from Oh, philosophy and psychology. That works   Michael Hingson ** 13:22 well you possibly can from psychology, but philosophy, not hardly   Jeffrey Madoff ** 13:26 No, no. But, you know, the thing that was so great about it, going back to the term we used earlier, curiosity in the fuel, what I loved about both, you know, philosophy and psychology used to be cross listed. They were this under the same heading. It was in 1932 when the Encyclopedia Britannica approached Sigmund Freud to write a separate entry for psychology, and that was the first time the two disciplines, philosophy and psychology, were split apart, and Freud wrote that entry, and forever since, it became its own discipline, but the questions that one asks, or the questions that are posed in Both philosophy and psychology, I still, to this day, find fascinating. And, you know, thinking about thinking and how you think about things, I always find very, very interesting.   Michael Hingson ** 14:33 Yeah, and the whole, the whole process, how do you get from here to there? How do you deal with anything that comes up, whether it's a challenge or just fulfilling the life choices that you make and so on. And philosophy and psychology, in a sense, I think, really are significantly different, but they're both very much thinking oriented.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 14:57 Oh, absolutely, it. And you know, philosophy means study of life, right? What psychology is, yeah, so I understand why they were bonded, and now, you know, understand why they also separated. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 15:15 I'll have to go look up what Freud said. I have never read that, but I will go find it. I'm curious. Yeah,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 15:23 it's it's so interesting. It's so interesting to me, because whether you believe in Freud or not, you if you are knowledgeable at all, the impact that he had on the world to this day is staggeringly significant. Yeah, because nobody was at posing those questions before, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 15:46 yeah. And there's, there's no doubt that that he has had a major contribution to a lot of things regarding life, and you're right, whether you buy into the view that he had of a lot of things isn't, isn't really the issue, but it still is that he had a lot of relevant and interesting things to say, and he helps people think that's right, that's right. Well, so what did you do? So you had a double major? Did you go on and do any advanced degree work? No,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 16:17 you know it was interesting because I had thought about it because I liked philosophy so much. And I approached this professor who was very noted, Ivan Saul, who was one of the world Hegelian scholars, and I approached him to be my advisor. And he said, Why do you want me to be your advisor? And I said, because you're one of the most published and respected authors on that subject. And if I'm going to have an advisor, I might as well go for the person that might help me the most and mean the most if I apply to graduate schools. So I did in that case certainly had an agenda. Yeah, and, and he said, you know, Jeff, I just got back from the world Hegelian conference in Munich, and I found it very depressing as and he just paused, and I said, why'd you find it depressing? And he said, Well, there's only one or two other people in the world that I can speak to about Hegel. And I said, Well, maybe you want to choose a different topic so you can make more friends. That depressing. That doesn't sound like it's a mix, you know, good fit for life, right? But so I didn't continue to graduate studies. I took graduate courses. I started graduate courses the second semester of my sophomore year. But I thought, I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to gain this knowledge that the only thing I can do is pass it on to others. It's kind of like breathing stale air or leaving the windows shut. I wanted to be in a world where there was an idea exchange, which I thought would be a lot more interesting. Yeah. And so there was a brief period where I thought I would get a doctorate and do that, and I love teaching, but I never wanted to. That's not what I wanted to pursue for those reasons.   Michael Hingson ** 18:35 So what did you end up doing then, once you got   Jeffrey Madoff ** 18:37 out of college? Well, there was a must have done something I did. And there's a little boutique, and in Madison that I did the buying for. And it was this very hip little clothing store. And Madison, because it was a big campus, you know, in the major rock bands would tour, they would come into the store because we had unusual things that I would find in New York, you know, when I was doing the buying for it, and I get a phone call from a friend of mine, a kid that I grew up with, and he was a year older, he had graduated school a year before me, and he said, Can you think of a gig that would earn more than bank interest? You know, I've saved up this money. Can you think of anything? And I said, Well, I see what we design. I mean, I see what we sell, and I could always draw. So I felt like I could design. I said, I'll start a clothing company. And Michael, I had not a clue in terms of what I was committing myself to. I was very naive, but not stupid. You know, was ignorant, but not stupid. And different. The difference between being ignorant and being stupid is ignorant. You can. Learn stupids forever, yeah, and that started me on this learning lesson, an entrepreneurial learning lesson, and there was, you know, quite formative for me. And the company was doubling in size every four months, every three months, and it was getting pretty big pretty quick. And you know, I was flying by the seat of my pants. I didn't really know what I was doing, but what I discovered is I had, you know, saleable taste. And I mean, when I was working in this store, I got some of the sewers who did the alterations to make some of my drawings, and I cut apart a shirt that I liked the way it fit, so I could see what the pieces are, and kind of figure out how this all worked. So but when I would go to a store and I would see fabric on the bolt, meaning it hadn't been made into anything, I was so naive. I thought that was wholesale, you know, which it wasn't and but I learned quickly, because it was like you learn quickly, or you go off the edge of a cliff, you go out of business. So it taught me a lot of things. And you know the title of your podcast, the unstoppable, that's part of what you learn in business. If you're going to survive, you've gotta be resilient enough to get up, because you're going to get knocked down. You have to persevere, because there are people that are going to that you're competing with, and there are things that are things that are going to happen that are going to make you want to give up, but that perseverance, that resilience, I think probably creativity, is third. I think it's a close call between perseverance and resilience, because those are really important criteria for a personality profile to have if you're going to succeed in business as an entrepreneur.   Michael Hingson ** 22:05 You know, Einstein once said, or at least he's credited with saying, that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, right and and the reality is that good, resilient. People will look at things that didn't go right, and if they really look at them, they'll go, I didn't fail. Yeah, maybe I didn't go right. I may have made a mistake, or something wasn't quite right. What do I do to fix it so that the next time, we won't have the same problem? And I think that's so important. I wrote my book last year, live like a guide dog, true stories from a blind man and his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity and moving forward in faith. And it's all about learning to control fear, but it's also all about learning from dogs. I've had eight guide dogs, and my wife had a service dog, and it's all about learning from dogs and seeing why they live in an environment where we are and they feed off of us, if you will. But at the same time, what they don't do is fear like we do. They're open to trust, and we tend not to be because we worry about so many things, rather than just looking at the world and just dealing with our part of it. So it is, it is interesting to to hear you talk about resilience. I think you're absolutely right that resilience is extremely important. Perseverance is important, and they do go together, but you you have to analyze what it is that makes you resilient, or what it is that you need to do to keep being resilient.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 23:48 Well, you're right. And one of the questions that you alluded to the course that I taught for 16 years at Parsons School of Design, which was my course, was called creative careers, making a living with your ideas. And I would ask the students, how many of you are afraid of failing? And probably more than three quarters of the class, their hands went up, and I said to them, you know, if that fear stops you, you'll never do anything interesting, because creativity, true creativity, by necessity, takes you up to and beyond the boundaries. And so it's not going to be always embraced. And you know, failure, I think everyone has to define it for themselves. But I think failure, to me, is and you hear that, you know, failure is a great way to learn. I mean, it's a way. To learn, but it's never not painful, you know, and it, but it is a way to learn if you're paying attention and if you are open to that notion, which I am and was, because, you know, that kind of risk is a necessary part of creativity, going where you hadn't gone before, to try to find solutions that you hadn't done before, and seeing what works. And of course, there's going to be things that don't, but it's only failure if you stop doing what is important to you. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:39 well, I think you're absolutely right. And one of the things that I used to do and still do, but it started when I was working as program director of our radio station at UC Irvine, was I wanted people to hear what they sounded like on the radio, because I always listened to what I said, and I know it helped me, but getting the other radio personalities to listen to themselves was was well, like herding cats, it just wasn't doable. And what we finally did is we set up, I and the engineer of the radio station, set up a recorder in a locked cabinet, and whenever the board went on in the main studio, the microphone went on, it recorded. So we didn't need to worry about the music. All we wanted was what the people said, and then we would give people the cassettes. And one of the things that I started saying then, and I said it until, like about a year ago, was, you know, you're your own worst critic, if you can learn to grow from it, or if you can learn to see what's a problem and go on, then that's great. What I learned over the last year and thought about is I'm really not my own worst critic. I'm my own best teacher, because I'm the only one who can really teach me anything, and it's better to shape it in a positive way. So I am my own best teacher. And so I think you're right. If you really want to talk about the concept of failure, failure is when you won't get back up. Failure is when you won't do anything to learn and grow from whatever happens to you, even the good stuff. Could I have done it better? Those are all very important things to do.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 27:19 No, I agree. So why did you think it was important for them to hear their voice?   Michael Hingson ** 27:25 Because I wanted them to hear what everyone else heard. I wanted them to hear what they sounded like to their listeners. And the reality is, when we got them to do that, it was, I say it was incredible, but it wasn't a surprise to me how much better they got. And some of those people ended up going into radio broadcasting, going into other kinds of things, but they really learned to hear what everyone else heard. And they they learned how to talk better. They learn what they really needed to improve upon, or they learn what wasn't sounding very good to everyone else, and they changed their habits.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 28:13 Interesting, interesting. So, so part of that also helps them establish a certain on air identity. I would imagine finding their own voice, so to speak, right,   Michael Hingson ** 28:30 or finding a better voice than they than they had, and certainly a better voice than they thought they had. Well, they thought they had a good voice, and they realized maybe it could be better. And the ones who learned, and most of them really did learn from it, came out the better for it.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 28:49 So let me ask you a personal question. You have been sightless since birth? Is that correct?   Michael Hingson ** 28:56 Yeah, I've been blind since birth. And   Jeffrey Madoff ** 28:59 so on a certain level, I was trying to think about this the other night, and how can I phrase this? On a certain level, you don't know what you look like,   Michael Hingson ** 29:15 and from the standpoint of how you look at it, yeah, yeah.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 29:19 And so, so two, that's two questions. One is so many of us for good and bad, our identity has to do with visual first, how do you assess that new person?   Michael Hingson ** 29:39 I don't look at it from a visual standpoint as such. I look at it from all the other senses that I have and use, but I also listen to the person and see how we interact and react to. Each other, and from that, I can draw pretty good conclusions about what an individual is like, so that I can decide if that's a a lovely person, male or female, because I'm using lovely in the sense of it's the kind of person I want to know or not, and so I don't obviously look at it from a visual standpoint. And although I know Helen Keller did it some, I'm not into feeling faces. When I was in college, I tried to convince girls that they should let me teach them Braille, but they had no interest in me showing them Braille, so we didn't do that. I actually a friend of mine and I once went to a girls dorm, and we put up a sign. Wanted young female assistant to aid in scientific Braille research, but that didn't go anywhere either. So we didn't do it. But so Braille pickup. Oh, Braille pickup. On the other hand, I had my guide dog who was in in my current guide dog is just the same chick magnet right from the get go, but, but the the reality is that visual is, I think there's a lot to be said for beauty is only skin deep in a lot of ways. And I think that it's important that we go far beyond just what one person looks like. People ask me all the time, well, if you could see again, would you? Or if you could see, would you? And my response is, I don't need to. I think there's value in it. It is a sense. I think it would be a great adventure, but I'm not going to spend my life worrying about that. Blindness isn't what defines me, and what defines me is how I behave, how I am, how I learn and grow, and what I do to be a part of society and and hopefully help society. I think that's more important.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 31:53 You know, I agree with you, and it's it's also having been blind since birth. It's not like you had a you had an aspect that you lost for some reason, right?   Michael Hingson ** 32:04 But I know some people who became blind later in life, who attended centers where they could learn about what it was like to be blind and learn to be a blind person and and really adapted to that philosophy and continue to do what they did even before they lost their their eyesight, and were just as successful as they ever were, because it wasn't so much about having eyesight, although that is a challenge when you lose it, but it was more important to learn that you could find alternatives to do the same things that you did before. So   Jeffrey Madoff ** 32:41 if you ever have read Marvel Comics, and you know Daredevil has a heightened sense of a vision, or you know that certain things turn into a different advantage, is there that kind of in real life, compensatory heightened awareness of other senses.   Michael Hingson ** 33:08 And the answer is not directly. The answer is, if you choose to heighten those senses and learn to use them, then they can be a help. It's like SEAL Team Six, or Rangers, or whatever, they learn how to observe. And for them, observing goes far beyond just using their eyesight to be able to spot things, although they they certainly use that, but they have heightened all of their other senses because they've trained them and they've taught themselves how to use those senses. It's not an automatic process by any definition at all. It's not automatic. You have to learn to do it. There are some blind people who have, have learned to do that, and there are a number that have not. People have said, well, you know, could any blind person get out of the World Trade Center, and like you did, and my response is, it depends on the individual, not necessarily, because there's so many factors that go into it. If you are so afraid when something like the World Trade Center events happen that you become blinded by fear, then you're going to have a much harder time getting out than if you let fear be a guide and use it to heighten the senses that you have during the time that you need that to occur. And that's one of the things that live like a guide dog is all about, is teaching people to learn to control fear, so that in reality, they find they're much more effective, because when something happens, they don't expect they adopt and adapt to having a mindset that says, I can get through this, and fear is going to help.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 34:53 That's fascinating. So one I could go on in this direction, I'll ask you, one, one other. Question is, how would you describe your dreams?   Michael Hingson ** 35:08 Probably the same way you would, except for me, dreaming is primarily in audio and other interactions and not using eyesight. But at the same time, I understand what eyesight is about, because I've thought about it a lot, and I appreciate that the process is not something that I have, but I understand it, and I can talk about light and eyesight all day. I can I when I was when it was discovered that I was blind for the first several years, I did have some light perception. I never as such, really even could see shadows, but I had some light perception. But if I were to be asked, How would you describe what it's like to see light? I'm not sure how I would do that. It's like asking you tell me what it's like to see put it into words so that it makes me feel what you feel when you see. And it's not the excitement of seeing, but it's the sensation. How do you describe that sensation? Or how do you describe the sensation of hearing their their senses? But I've yet to really encounter someone who can put those into words that will draw you in. And I say that from the standpoint of having done literally hundreds or 1000s of speeches telling my story about being in the World Trade Center, and what I tell people today is we have a whole generation of people who have never experienced or had no memory of the World Trade Center, and we have another generation that saw it mainly from TV and pictures. So they their, their view of it was extremely small. And my job, when I speak is to literally bring them in the building and describe what is occurring to me in such a way that they're with me as we're going down the stairs. And I've learned how to do that, but describing to someone what it's like to see or to hear, I haven't found words that can truly do that yet. Oh,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 37:15 fascinating. Thank you.   Michael Hingson ** 37:20 Well, tell me about creativity. I mean, you do a lot of of things, obviously, with with creativity. So what is creativity?   Jeffrey Madoff ** 37:29 I think that creativity is the compelling need to express, and that can manifest in many, many, many different ways. You have that, you know, just it was fascinating here you talk about you, describing what happened in Twin Towers, you know. And so, I think, you know, you had a compelling need to process what was a historic and extraordinary event through that unique perception that you have, and taking the person, as you said, along with you on that journey, you know, down the stairs and out of the Building. I think it was what 78 stories or something, right? And so I think that creativity, in terms of a trait, is that it's a personality trait that has a compelling need to express in some way. And I think that there is no such thing as the lightning bolt that hits and all of a sudden you come up with the idea for the great novel, The great painting, the great dance, the great piece of music. We are taking in influences all the time and percolating those influences, and they may come out, in my case, hopefully they've come out in the play that I wrote, personality and because if it doesn't relate to anybody else, and you're only talking to yourself, that's you know, not, not. The goal, right? The play is to have an audience. The goal of your book is to have readers. And by the way, did your book come out in Braille?   Michael Hingson ** 39:31 Um, yeah, it, it is available in Braille. It's a bit. Actually, all three of my books are available in with their on demand. They can be produced in braille, and they're also available in audio formats as well. Great.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 39:43 That's great. So, yeah, I think that person, I think that creativity is it is a fascinating topic, because I think that when you're a kid, oftentimes you're told more often not. To do certain things than to do certain things. And I think that you know, when you're creative and you put your ideas out there at a very young age, you can learn shame. You know, people don't like what you do, or make fun of what you do, or they may like it, and it may be great, but if there's, you know, you're opened up to that risk of other people's judgment. And I think that people start retreating from that at a very young age. Could because of parents, could because of teachers, could because of their peer group, but they learn maybe in terms of what they think is emotional survival, although would never be articulated that way, at putting their stuff out there, they can be judged, and they don't like being judged, and that's a very uncomfortable place to be. So I think creativity is both an expression and a process.   Michael Hingson ** 40:59 Well, I'll and I think, I think you're right, and I think that it is, it is unfortunate all too often, as you said, how children are told don't do this or just do that, but don't do this, and no, very few people take the next logical step, which is to really help the child understand why they said that it isn't just don't. It should be. Why not? One of my favorite stories is about a student in school once and was taking a philosophy class. You'll probably have heard this, but he and his classmates went in for the final exam, and the instructor wrote one word on the board, which was why? And then everybody started to write. And they were writing furiously this. This student sat there for a couple of minutes, wrote something on a paper, took it up, handed it in, and left. And when the grades came out, he was the only one who got an A. And the reason is, is because what he put on his paper was, why not, you know, and, and that's very, very valid question to ask. But the reality is, if we really would do more to help people understand, we would be so much better off. But rather than just telling somebody what to do, it's important to understand why?   Jeffrey Madoff ** 42:22 Yeah, I remember when I was in I used to draw all the time, and my parents would bring home craft paper from the store that was used to wrap packets. And so they would bring me home big sheets I could do whatever I wanted on it, you know, and I would draw. And in school I would draw. And when art period happened once or twice a week, and the teacher would come in with her cart and I was drawing, that was when this was in, like, the middle 50s, and Davy Crockett was really a big deal, and I was drawing quite an intricate picture of the battle at the Alamo. And the teacher came over to me and said she wanted us to do crayon resist, which is, you know, they the watercolors won't go over the the crayon part because of the wax and the crayon. And so you would get a different thing that never looked good, no matter who did it, right? And so the teacher said to me, what are you doing? And I said, Well, I'm drawing. It's and she said, Why are you drawing? I said, Well, it's art class, isn't it? She said, No, I told you what to do. And I said, Yeah, but I wanted to do this. And she said, Well, you do what I tell you, where you sit there with your hands folded, and I sat there with my hands folded. You know I wasn't going to be cowed by her. And I've thought back on that story so often, because so often you get shut down. And when you get shut down in a strong way, and you're a kid, you don't want to tread on that land again. Yeah, you're afraid,   Michael Hingson ** 44:20 yeah. Yeah. And maybe there was a good reason that she wanted you to do what she wanted, but she should have taken the time to explain that right, right now, of course, my question is, since you did that drawing with the Alamo and so on, I'm presuming that Davy Crockett looked like Fess Parker, right? Just checking,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 44:42 yeah, yep, yeah. And my parents even got me a coon   Michael Hingson ** 44:47 skin hat. There you go, Daniel Boone and David Crockett and   Jeffrey Madoff ** 44:51 Davy Crockett and so there were two out there. Mine was actually a full coon skin cap with the tail. And other kids had it where the top of it was vinyl, and it had the Disney logo and a picture of Fess Parker. And I said, Now I don't want something, you know, and you are correct, you are correct. It was based on fess Barker. I think   Michael Hingson ** 45:17 I have, I had a coons kid cap, and I think I still do somewhere. I'm not quite sure where it is, but it was a real coonskin cap with a cake with a tail.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 45:26 And does your tail snap off? Um, no, yeah, mine. Mine did the worst thing about the coonskin cap, which I thought was pretty cool initially, when it rained, it was, you know, like you had some wet animal on your Well, yes, yeah, as you did, she did, yeah, animal on your head, right? Wasn't the most aromatic of the hub. No,   Michael Hingson ** 45:54 no, it's but Huh, you got to live with it. That's right. So what is the key to having great creative collaborations? I love collaborating when I wrote my original book, Thunder dog, and then running with Roselle, and then finally, live like a guide dog. I love the idea of collaborating, and I think it made all three of the books better than if it had just been me, or if I had just let someone else do it, because we're bringing two personalities into it and making the process meld our ideas together to create a stronger process.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 46:34 I completely agree with you, and collaboration, for instance, in my play personality, the director Sheldon apps is a fantastic collaborator, and as a result, has helped me to be a better writer, because he would issue other challenges, like, you know, what if we looked at it this way instead of that way? What if you gave that power, that that character, the power in that scene, rather than the Lloyd character? And I loved those kinds of challenges. And the key to a good collaboration is pretty simple, but it doesn't happen often enough. Number one is listening. You aren't going to have a good collaboration if you don't listen. If you just want to interrupt and shut the other person down and get your opinion out there and not listen, that's not going to be good. That's not going to bode well. And it's being open. So people need to know that they're heard. You can do that a number of ways. You can sort of repeat part of what they said, just so I want to understand. So you were saying that the Alamo situation, did you have Davy Crockett up there swinging the rifle, you know? So the collaboration, listening, respect for opinions that aren't yours. And you know, don't try to just defeat everything out of hand, because it's not your idea. And trust developing a trust with your collaborators, so that you have a clearly defined mission from the get go, to make whatever it is better, not just the expression of one person's will over another. And I think if you share that mission, share that goal, that the other person has earned your trust and vice versa, that you listen and acknowledge, then I think you can have great collaboration. And I've had a number of great collaborators. I think I'm a good collaborator because I sort of instinctively knew those things, and then working with Sheldon over these last few years made it even more so. And so that's what I think makes a really great collaboration.   Michael Hingson ** 49:03 So tell me about the play personality. What's it about? Or what can you tell us about it without giving the whole thing away?   Jeffrey Madoff ** 49:10 So have you ever heard of Lloyd Price?   Michael Hingson ** 49:14 The name is familiar. So that's   Jeffrey Madoff ** 49:16 the answer that I usually get is, I'm not really sure. Yeah, it's kind of familiar. And I said, Well, you don't, probably don't know his name, but I'll bet you know his music. And I then apologize in advance for my singing, you know, cause you've got walk, personality, talk, personality, smile, oh yeah, yeah. I love that song, you know. Yeah. Do you know that song once I did that, yes, yeah. So Lloyd was black. He grew up in Kenner, Louisiana. It was he was in a place where blacks were expected to know their place. And. And if it was raining and a white man passed, you'd have to step into a mud puddle to let them pass, rather than just working by each other. And he was it was a tough situation. This is back in the late 1930s and what Lloyd knew is that he wanted to get out of Kenner, and music could be his ticket. And the first thing that the Lloyd character says in the play is there's a big dance opening number, and first thing that his character says is, my mama wasn't a whore. My dad didn't leave us. I didn't learn how to sing in church, and I never did drugs. I want to get that out of the way up front. And I wanted to just blow up all the tropes, because that's who Lloyd was, yeah, and he didn't drink, he didn't learn how to sing in church. And, you know, there's sort of this baked in narrative, you know, then then drug abuse, and you then have redeemed yourself. Well, he wasn't like that. He was entrepreneurial. He was the first. He was the it was really interesting at the time of his first record, 1952 when he recorded Lottie, Miss Claudia, which has been covered by Elvis and the Beatles and Bruce Springsteen and on and on. There's like 370 covers of it. If you wanted to buy a record by a black artist, you had to go to a black owned record store. His records couldn't get on a jukebox if it was owned by a white person. But what happened was that was the first song by a teenager that sold over a million copies. And nobody was prejudiced against green, which is money. And so Lloyd's career took off, and it The story tells about the the trajectory of his career, the obstacles he had to overcome, the triumphs that he experienced, and he was an amazing guy. I had been hired to direct, produce and direct a short documentary about Lloyd, which I did, and part of the research was interviewing him, and we became very good friends. And when I didn't know anything about him, but I knew I liked his music, and when I learned more about him, I said, Lloyd, you've got an amazing story. Your story needs to be told. And I wrote the first few scenes. He loved what I wrote. And he said, Jeff, I want you to do this. And I said, thank you. I want to do it, but there's one other thing you need to know. And he said, What's that? And I said, You're the vessel. You're the messenger, but your story is bigger than you are. And he said, Jeff, I've been waiting for years for somebody to say that to me, rather than just blowing more smoke up my ass. Yeah. And that started our our collaboration together and the story. And it was a great relationship. Lloyd died in May of 21 and we had become very close, and the fact that he trusted me to tell his story is of huge significance to me. And the fact that we have gotten such great response, we've had two commercial runs. We're moving the show to London, is is is really exciting. And the fact that Lloyd, as a result of his talent and creativity, shattered that wall that was called Race music in race records, once everybody understood on the other side that they could profit from it. So there's a lot of story in there that's got a lot of meat, and his great music   Michael Hingson ** 54:04 that's so cool and and so is it? Is it performing now anywhere, or is it? No, we're   Jeffrey Madoff ** 54:12 in between. We're looking actually, I have a meeting this this week. Today is February 11. I have a meeting on I think it's Friday 14th, with my management in London, because we're trying to get a theater there. We did there in October, and got great response, and now we're looking to find a theater there.   Michael Hingson ** 54:37 So what are the chance we're going to see it on Broadway?   Jeffrey Madoff ** 54:41 I hope a very good chance Broadway is a very at this point in Broadway's history. It's it's almost prohibitively expensive to produce on Broadway, the West End has the same cache and. Yeah, because, you know, you think of there's that obscure British writer who wrote plays called William Shakespeare. You may have heard of   Michael Hingson ** 55:07 him, yeah, heard of the guy somewhere, like, like, I've heard of Lloyd Price, yeah, that's   Jeffrey Madoff ** 55:15 it. And so I think that Broadway is certainly on the radar. The first step for us, the first the big step before Broadway is the West End in London. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 55:30 that's a great place to go. It is.   Jeffrey Madoff ** 55:32 I love it, and I speak the language, so it's good. Well, there you   Michael Hingson ** 55:35 are. That helps. Yes, well, you're a very creative kind of individual by any standard. Do you ever get involved with or have you ever faced the whole concept of imposter syndrome?   Jeffrey Madoff ** 55:48 Interesting, you mentioned that the answer is no, and I'll tell you why it's no. And you know, I do a fair amount of speaking engagements and that sort of thing, and that comes up particularly with women, by the way, imposter syndrome, and my point of view on it is, you know, we're not imposters. If you're not trying to con somebody and lying about what you do, you're a work in progress, and you're moving towards whatever it is that your goals are. So when my play became a produced commercial piece of theater and I was notarized as a playwright, why was that same person the day before that performance happened? And so I think that rather than looking at it as imposter, I look at it as a part of the process, and a part of the process is gaining that credibility, and you have to give yourself permission to keep moving forward. And I think it's very powerful that if you declare yourself and define yourself rather than letting people define you. So I think that that imposter syndrome comes from that fear, and to me, instead of fear, just realize you're involved in the process and so you are, whatever that process is. And again, it's different if somebody's trying to con you and lie to you, but in terms of the creativity, and whether you call yourself a painter or a musician or a playwright or whatever, if you're working towards doing that, that's what you do. And nobody starts off full blown as a hit, so to speak. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 57:44 well, I think you're absolutely right, and I think that it's all about not trying to con someone. And when you are doing what you do, and other people are involved, they also deserve credit, and people like you probably have no problem with making sure that others who deserve credit get the credit. Oh, absolutely, yeah, I'm the same way. I am absolutely of the opinion that it goes back to collaboration. When we're collaborating, I'm I'm very happy to talk about the fact that although I started the whole concept of live like a guide dog, carry Wyatt Kent and I worked on it together, and the two of us work on it together. It's both our books. So each of us can call it our book, but it is a collaborative effort, and I think that's so important to be able to do,   Jeffrey Madoff ** 58:30 oh, absolutely, absolutely, you know, the stuff that I was telling you about Sheldon, the director, you know, and that he has helped me to become a better writer, you know, and and when, as as obviously, you have experienced too, when you have a fruitful collaboration, it's fabulous, because you're both working together to create the best possible result, as opposed to self aggrandizement, right?   Michael Hingson ** 59:03 Yeah, it is. It is for the things that I do. It's not about me and I and I say it all the time when I'm talking to people who I'd like to have hire me to be a speaker. It's not about me, it's about their event. And I believe I can add value, and here's why I think I can add value, but it's not about me, it's about you and your event, right? And it's so important if, if you were to give some advice to somebody starting out, or who wants to be creative, or more creative and so on, what kind of advice would you give them?   Jeffrey Madoff ** 59:38 I would say it's more life advice, which is, don't be afraid of creative risk, because the only thing that you have that nobody else has is who you are. So how you express who you are in the most unique way of who you are? So that is going to be what defines your work. And so I think that it's really important to also realize that things are hard and always take more time than you think they should, and that's just part of the process. So it's not easy. There's all these things out there in social media now that are bull that how people talk about the growth of their business and all of this stuff, there's no recipe for success. There are best practices, but there's no recipes for it. So however you achieve that, and however you achieve making your work better and gaining the attention of others, just understand it's a lot of hard work. It's going to take longer than you thought, and it's can be incredibly satisfying when you hit certain milestones, and don't forget to celebrate those milestones, because that's what's going to give you the strength to keep going forward.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:07 Absolutely, it is really about celebrating the milestones and celebrating every success you have along the way, because the successes will build to a bigger success. That's right, which is so cool. Well, this has been a lot of fun. We've been doing this for an hour. Can you believe it? That's been great. It has been and I really appreciate you being here, and I I want to thank all of you who are listening, but please tell your friends to get into this episode as well. And we really value your comments, so please feel free to write me. I would love to know what you thought about today. I'm easy to reach. It's Michael M, I C H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S i b, e.com, or you can always go to our podcast page, which is Michael hingson, M, I C H, A, E, L, H i N, G, s o n.com/podcast, where you can listen to or access all the of our podcasts, but they're also available, as most likely you've discovered, wherever you can find podcasts, so you can get them on Apple and all those places and wherever you're listening. We do hope you'll give us a five star review. We really value your reviews, and Jeff has really given us a lot of great insights today, and I hope that you all value that as well. So we really would appreciate a five star rating wherever you're listening to us, and that you'll come back and hear some more episodes with us. If you know of anyone who ought to be a guest, Jeff, you as well. Love You to refer people to me. I'm always looking for more people to have on because I do believe that everyone in the world is unstoppable if you learn how to accept that and move forward. And that gets back to our whole discussion earlier about failure or whatever, you can be unstoppable. That doesn't mean you're not going to have challenges along the way, but that's okay. So we hope that if you do know people who ought to be on the podcast, or if you want to be on the podcast and you've been listening, step up won't hurt you. But again, Jeff, I want to thank you for being here. This has been a lot of fun, and we really appreciate your time. Thank   Jeffrey Madoff ** 1:03:16 you, Michael, for having you on. It was fun. You   **Michael Hingson ** 1:03:23 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Marivir R. Montebon is a New York-based journalist who runs her media company Awesome Media, Ltd. In 2012, she established the online magazine OSM! (awesome!) together with her daughter, Leani Alnica Auxilio. In 2022, she produced Conversations with MM, a digital talk show, on YouTube, LinkedIn, and Facebook platforms. Marivir was president of the FilAm Press Club of NY in 2018 and 2019. She set up a 501 (c) (3) non-profit in 2018 called Women's Immigration and Communications Cafe (WICCAFE). It has a project arm called Women & Media (WAM), a collaborative platform for women and communities to amplify their voices and actions. Marivir was a media fellow for Montclair University's Cooperative Media Program for COVID-19 Reporting in 2020 and a member of the Theta Alpha Kappa honor society. She finished her Doctoral Studies, with distinction, in May 2024 at the HJ International Graduate School for Peace and Public Leadership in New York City with a focus on Peace and Public Leadership. Her doctoral research is titled: Bridging the Political Divide of US Immigration Reporting through Transformative Journalism. She is currently a United Nations representative for the Women's Federation for World Peace International (WFWP), a global women's organization with a Consultative Status with the Commission on the Status of Women (CSW). Marie Montebon - Instagram Marivir Montebon - Facebook Marivir Montebon - LinkedIn

Kiera and Dana offer a life raft for businesses struggling to keep cash flow in the green, including specific steps to help get your practice back on course. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am jazzed. Dana, the one and only Dynamite Dana over there. She's on the podcast with me today. Dana, how are you today?   Dana (00:10) doing pretty good. It's a beautiful day here and so I'm just excited to be on the podcast with you.   Kiera Dent (00:15) Dana, I am so glad because you and I, feel like we're ships in the night. We see each other, we wave to each other. We love working together, but the reality of us like being on the same boat to talk to each other is few and far between, which is so ironic. But every time I see you in person, I'm like, Dana, we need to hang out more. Like, so it's fun to podcast, even though, I mean, it's a funny way to say hello. We're like here to do work, but at least we get to like have more interactions. So, ⁓ thanks for being on my ship today. I guess like welcome, welcome aboard, matey.   Dana (00:44) Yeah,   happy to be here, Gatton.   Kiera Dent (00:48) But today you guys, Dana and I, we were talking about like some burnout and cashflow row. So think about death row. We actually have a lot of clients that come to us. Thankfully, like once they become clients, they get off death row, cashflow row. But we thought about, think oftentimes burnout and cashflow row ⁓ go hand in hand. And so I figured, Dana, let's get into like, how do you get off of cashflow row? like death row,   you're about to go and like die like literally. ⁓ I feel it's becoming a bit more common than I've seen in the past. I'm super grateful and I just want to shout out and for all of you listening, if you're on cashflow row or you're on burnout row, ⁓ just like a huge hug, a huge hug of love, a huge hug of no judgment. Gosh, I get like emotional thinking about it I think it's so easy as a business owner to like just harp on yourself to just feel like   Like, why am I so dumb? Like, why can't I figure this out? Like, the mean girl or boy in your mind is just like vicious and wicked. And it makes me so angry that we're this way to ourselves as business owners. Cause I'm like, you know what? You're freaking strong. And like, you took these risks and like, you don't know what you're doing, but you know, you wanted to like build a great like culture for your team. You wanted to build this amazing life for your family. And yeah, it's hard. It's really hard to be a business owner. And I think I speak of this so candidly because   Like I've been on death row, like cashflow row. I've been on burnout row, like, and you just sit there and when you need to like have the most love and respect for yourself and grace, it's when we like punch ourselves and kick ourselves and yell at ourselves. And so ⁓ I thought it would be a really, ⁓ hopefully timely podcast for some of you listening of just love of no judgment, of encouragement, and maybe some like shining little stars when you need a North star right now, because   It can feel very daunting. And I want to tell you, you don't have to do it alone. ⁓ You telling yourself you're alone and on an island is your choice. And it's a choice that you don't have to stay with. There's so many ways we can help. I think even just like when we get clients that are on cashflow row, I feel like they feel they finally got a life raft sent to them when they didn't know it was even possible. And as consultants, think Dana and I and our whole consulting team are so passionate about getting you into cashflow positive and doing it with ease where it's not that hard. But   Like it wasn't overnight that you got here either. So it's not going to be overnight. get you out of there. We're to move you pretty quickly. Cause I think like, Hey, someone's like holding the lantern for you in this dark cave. Like, all right, here's the way out. can really, really help you. But really Dana, think like just again, I hope all of you listening know we come to you with love, with no judgment. You're not a terrible business owner. You're not dumb. You shouldn't have known this before. It's just, this is where we are kind of like a patient with perio, right? Like it's okay. Like this is where we are. And the great news is   There are solutions and there's a way out and there's a way to happiness again if you want. So Dana, that's kind of my like emotional pitch to start this off with. Any thoughts you have? Because I think you've seen quite a few come to you on Cash Flow Row from day one.   Dana (03:49) This is.   Yeah, yeah. And I love just your vulnerability there, Kiera, as a business owner, because I say it to doctors all the time, like, whether it's a dental office, whether it's a consulting company, whatever business it is, it doesn't come with an instruction manual. And so we get in there with the best of intentions, we're ready to work hard, we put everything you have into it. And there are ebbs and flows in business. And sometimes it gets really, really hard. And you're right, it is the self talk that   that you have to take a look at and the blame that you put on yourself for being the reason why you got there. And you know what, it's okay, we're gonna figure it out ⁓ and we're gonna stop the bleeding and we're gonna start focusing on the things that are going to matter and are going to move it forward. And you know what, as a coach, I get the pleasure of cheering you along the way and sometimes kicking your booty when it's needed. And ⁓ it is, we are seeing it more and more and I think   it comes down to two, like knowing what cash you need, knowing what you're spending your cash on, and sometimes making some hard decisions based on that too.   Kiera Dent (05:05) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think with that it's like awesome. Here we go Here's the blood like we're going to help you get out of that and I love that you said there's no instruction manual just like being a parent There's no instruction manual and so there are just different ways to do it So my big thing and in Dental A team, always like we are profitable We call it the yes model so you can say yes to everything you want in life and the Y stands for you as a person We're gonna focus on E stands for earnings and profitability   and S stands for systems and team development. So like those three things together are going to give you success with ease. So today, if you're on cashflow row or burnout row, I think oftentimes burnout comes because of cashflow. Like it is the scary piece to it. So with that, let's talk about like, what can we do if we're in cashflow row? What are some of the fastest things that will help people get out of cashflow? Dana, I'll let you take this. We're going to just kind of riff back and forth. Like you guys, this is unscripted. This is just from our knowledge of things that we do.   of like when we see offices and again this is coming from real life offices things we've actually done to get them off of cashflow row. Dana let's just riff because you've got a few that have just come and you've got a few that have been there and ⁓ they're doing well.   Dana (06:12) Yeah, yeah, yeah,   I think it is. It's a reviewing of expenses. Is there anything we can cut that we're not cutting ourselves too lean though that we can't continue to grow? And then also, what do need to produce and produce it consistently?   Kiera Dent (06:27) Yeah, I love that. So it's like we either need to increase our production or we need to decrease our expenses. And on the production, I will also say we need to make sure we're collecting. It's wild to me. I was talking to a doctor who's on quote unquote cashflow row and they said, Kiera, I have like $300,000 sitting in AR. And I was like, so you're really not on cashflow row. You've got the money. You just haven't collected it. So realizing that usually in dentistry, there's quite a few cashflow opportunities very quickly.   But I agree with you, Dana. Like step one is like, let's get our PNL and let's know our numbers. Is there anything on there? Like, and I'm talking like, you don't like, gosh, people get wild and they start cutting things that actually you need. Like I know your hygienists are expensive, but they also produce for you. I know billers can feel annoying, but they also collect money for you. I know your treatment coordinator can feel expensive, but they're putting money on your books. I know a consultant can feel like I'm going to cut. can do this on my own, but they're literally the only person holding you accountable and pushing you through and guiding you.   So it's one of those things of like, let's look to see like, what really is stuff to cut? And I'm talking like subscriptions that you're no longer using. This is one that it makes me wild. I don't understand this. It makes no sense to me. But when people are in cashflow row and the only thing I can come up with Dana is it's ego. That's all I can figure out. So I'm just saying to you like, Hey, I hear you. see you. Let's cut the ego and get you into cashflow positive. And then like rock on, do whatever you want from there is like holding onto equipment that you're not using. It's weird to me. Like,   Okay, so we're not like, we thought we were gonna do all these scans of the Itero. And if I look at the last six months, we literally have like taken three scans. Or I bought the CBCT, because I thought was gonna do all these implants, and I'm not doing implants. Or I have like multiple Iteros, but like we've cut back and we've scaled back like, so I only need one Itero instead of three Iteros. those are big expenses on your debt and your loan. Like, let's sell those, let's get rid of them. people, I don't know, it's like embarrassment or ego or like,   Maybe you're still like wishing for the good old glory day. I don't know what it is, but I'm like, get rid of that. Cut the cost. Like think in your own life. If you had a car that you had a car payment on, even though it's the nicest car and it's your dream car, but you can't afford food, you're going to get rid of that car. You're going to sell it and you're going to buy something more economical and affordable. Like let's just get rid of it. No one, no one cares. Like honestly, none of your colleagues know that you're selling the equipment off because you're freaking broke right now.   That's just you and it's okay. it truly like what can you get rid of? there equipment you're no longer using that you could sell that you could pawn off just to get you some cash flow quickly and cut some of that debt services? Like is there any debt service that we can get rid of for you? That's a question like but I think it's a very easy cut on the PNL. Dana thoughts on that.   Dana (09:02) Yeah, I agree with you. then and again, I can't, I can't really decipher where it comes from. But I do you do see offices wanting to hold on to those things. And maybe it is like, well, we'll turn it around, and then I'll use it. Great, then we can get another one down the line. Right. But right now, what the immediate relief from dispensing of it will far outweigh hanging on to it until down the road, maybe we'll need it again.   Kiera Dent (09:27) Exactly. Like it's okay. Like don't don't even stress about it. We're not we're not here for we're not here for that ego. So I think when we're looking at the PNL, let's look to see like go back to COVID days. If you were a business owner during COVID, I remember we scrubbed that PNL like, could we call the lenders? Could we put this on pause? Could we like get rid of this loan? Like those things I think are really important because that actually can free you up exponentially being buried in debt. I remember my husband when we were paying off his loans. Holy moly, he could not see outside of that debt for one second.   We can't get rid of our practice loan, but you could renegotiate your rent, like your lease. Those are things that you can do. I remember during COVID, people got very scrappy and I'm like, don't forget that scrap you just learned a few years ago. Like take those lessons and go through them. that's step one of, but be careful. Like Dana said, please don't cut things that are going, let's not cut the hygienist right away. Like I'm looking at what are the things that are nice to have, but not necessary to have. Let's cut those things.   ⁓ well, I put consulting in a must have. think if they're a great consultant and they're holding you accountable and they're moving you forward, yeah, you better believe it's one of the best dollars you'll ever spend. Now, if you are not, ⁓ if they're not moving you forward, if they're just having like rando conversations with you, probably a good thing to move on. But again, you also should go to your consultant. They work for you and say, I am in cashflow row, which hopefully if they're a good consultant, they would know that. And it's like, we have to make this happen. Now there's no other options.   So after we do that, next step is let's look at our AR. Doctors, if you don't know how to run your AR, that's your aging report. Let's just go see how much money is sitting out in our AR. And let's see if it's patient portion that we could collect or if it's insurance and also why and how much is in our 30, 60, 90 and over 90 buckets. Because that over 90, like this sounds awkward, but doctors like truly you can call patients and you can collect. We can send text messages. I know that feels awkward. I know that doesn't feel like what you want to do.   But these are ways like there is cash there. Also, like, let's look at the protocol of how are we getting there? Are we not collecting when they get into the practice? We can start collecting when they come in. I was in an office yesterday and they're like, gosh, our accounts are all funky. And I was like, sweet. As soon as they walk in, let's collect the money before they even go to the back. They're like, but that's different. We've never done that. And I'm like, think about a hospital. You do that. Like you show up, you pay the money and then you go back, like switch it. It's not weird. People don't think it's weird.   It's very normal. So like, let's collect the money. Let's put some systems into place. So we stop getting into an AR crunch. And really making sure that that is something that we are very proactive on. Do you know other thoughts on AR? AR to me, think is just like this like, I don't know. It's like an endless pit. And I think I have it because when I first started the business, I had this endless pit of AR and I didn't even know it existed. And I'm like, oh, no wonder I'm broke. It's just because we're not collecting the money. And then I was like,   Sweet, let's change the system. That's a system you should put into place. But what are some other thoughts or systems you have around AR to help people get this cash?   Dana (12:16) You   Yeah, I think AR it's it's kind of like culture. It's like a thing that you have to stay super super consistent on and work on all the time and I see it so oftentimes in practice. It's like well I pull it once a month and you know, like I that's when I work on it and I'm like no it's something that you have to set purposeful time aside. So whoever's responsibility it is making sure that every single week they have a chunk of time that can be dedicated solely to working on AR because it is also it can so   quickly grow when we haven't been paying attention to it. And so it's, I'd say, dedicated time for it and then find a cadence that works for you. Whether it's alternating patient and then insurance and then patient follow-up again and then more insurance follow-up, figure out however you can keep it super consistent and make sure you've got dedicated time every single week because it will quickly grow if we're not paying attention to it.   Kiera Dent (12:54) Yes.   Yeah, it's a wild zone that I'm like, okay, ⁓ it's so crazy how fast it will grow on you. so it's, and just so you know how insurance works, if you don't understand this, I'm here to like give you a quick like, all right, this is how the snapshot works. So what it is, is you actually have it where like,   These insurance claims don't fall in like, okay, it's the 30th of the month. So now we go and that's when our 30 days fall into 60 days. Every day, money is moving from the 30 to 60, 60 to 90, 90, because it's based on when that claim sent. So you have to realize this money kind of like interest is how I feel of AR. It's constantly moving on you. So you can call it winning Wednesday, you can call it like taking cash on Tuesday, Thursday, but like literally have days set up for your biller and   This is a position and this is a job responsibility that I am very sticky on. They have to do it. I don't care if we're busy. don't care if patients are calling like, dang, I'm so busy. I had a patient, I can't pay your paycheck. Like that's the reality. They have to collect money. I do not care. Those are non-negotiables for me. It's two hours, Tuesday and Thursday, non-negotiables period. The house will not burn down. The practice will not burn down. Get your dang money because oftentimes that's all it is. And it's just being consistent. So billers,   Doctors, if you need to send this to your bill, like, Hey, we're on cashflow row billers. I'm talking to you. You have a responsibility to your doctor and to this office. They have produced. You need to collect this money. So get the good insurance verification, get the statements, call the insurance companies, figure out why our claims aren't getting paid. That's your job, honey. That's your job. And yes, your responsibility. Like if you want a paycheck, collect the money because that's where your paycheck's coming from. And so   and it's nothing wrong. We're not doing anything wrong. We've done the work. We did great work. Let's collect the money and make sure that we don't get this out of control. It like breaks my heart when doctors have no money and it's because team members, we let our doctors down. They did the work and honestly, team members, it breaks my heart and I'm here to say like, tis tis, shame on you. Be better than that. You are better than that. Collect the money and if you need help, tell your doctor like, hey, hire the dental team. Like we have literally brought in hundreds of thousands of dollars.   just by helping some billers because honestly, doctors, like I say, tisks on the team, which truly it is our fault, but they might not know how to do it or how to do it effectively. There's a lot of ways where we can chunk it. We can break it down. We can make it so much faster and easier for them. We can help them get rid of some of the bad debt. It's running reports differently. It's tagging things differently so they can work it. It becomes so much easier. So again, like if you're billing is a struggle, great opportunity for you to get some help and billers, please don't be afraid to ask for that help too. So.   I say that with a giant hug as well. I know it was like a stern hug, but really you've got to collect that money. So we've got cut your expenses. Look at that. Like debt services. What on earth? Just get rid of the debt. Get rid of anything you can. Next is going to be that we're collecting the money in the AR. Let's figure out how much we have there. And then next is going to be producing. Now I will go on a rant again, clearly cash and burnout. Like let's just not get there. Like I hate this. Let's get you out of there fast. ⁓   I really hate when doctors come on to calls with me and they're like, yeah, I I produced a million last year. And I'm like, that's awesome. And they're like, yeah, but we had to write off 50%. So we were only produced like 500,000. And I'm like, why did you tell me a million that only served you like high five, but you did not produce a million. I don't care that that's your office fee that feeds your ego only, but it's not real. And what you're doing is you're actually hurting yourself because you're, you're elusive to the fact that you're not producing a million, but you think you are.   but you're living on 500 bucks, it'd be like, or 500,000. It's like, oh, Dana, I make a million a year, but I only have like 90,000. Well, why are you telling me you have a million? You don't actually, like that's not even real money. That's monopoly money. I'm so glad we gave you some paper money. Like I get it, but you're in insurance. So like, let's live on real numbers so you can produce real numbers. Cause this is often where cashflow happens because you're like, well, we're making a million.   No, you're not. You're making 500,000. So either get out of network, which I strongly would not recommend, but do a block schedule, figure out how to produce, make sure you're diagnosing. And also when I hear about these cashflow row offices, normally, and doctors, I'm not a dentist, so I'm not here to tell you how to do it. I'm just here to say, whatever number you want and need to produce, you need to be diagnosing three times that amount. That's a statistic that's proven. You've got to be diagnosing enough to get that money on your schedule.   And the next piece is treatment coordinators and doctors. We've got to make sure we're closing that treatment and getting it on the books and doing quadrant dentistry, not just solo tooth. If we're watching, what are we watching for? If you're a watcher, you're scared to diagnose, just diagnose one more thing that you would normally watch. Just put it on the books. That's going to help you. But the reality is you, you truly have a moral obligation to diagnose your patients, ⁓ to tell them what needs to happen and to not judge them based on what you think their bank account is. Your job is to be a comprehensive dentist.   All right, Dana, I'm off my soapbox. You should take it away from me now. What are your thoughts on that?   Dana (18:17) Thank   I love that and I do say yeah exactly we want to look at net numbers and if you're not happy with your adjustments then there are you know ways to tackle that through fee negotiations through you know looking at your numbers to see is it worth   changing some network status with one insurance company or making a little bit of a shift or do we just need to start, like you said, being strategic and block scheduling and maybe even one more step of, hey, yeah, we can block schedule and we've got to watch our insurance mix within our block schedule. All of those things are avenues. just kind of, you have to take a look at.   Kiera Dent (18:50) Mm-hmm.   Dana (18:55) the numbers and build it to be efficient, successful, get you to your goal and to also not cause burnout. I get so much pushback on block scheduling because it's like, well, my team knows how to schedule. Absolutely, right? But like, can I get you to goal with two, three crowns and a quadrant worth of fillings? Yes. Can I also get you to goal with 32, one surface fillings? Sure can. Those days feel super different.   Right? That's a lot of turnover, a lot of check in and check out and insurance verification and all of those things. And so when we build it more strategically, dang, those days feel really, really different to   Kiera Dent (19:23) They do.   And I say this often, I'll say it again, if we have a bad schedule, that was our fault. Like I know you're like, well, patients, can like, they just want to go here. And I'm like, no, you led them there. You guide them. Doctors, are like, you are a clinician. You are an amazing doctor. We get to pick our schedule. And so like Dana said, let's build this. Let's make this incredible for us. But I think those are hopefully three quick ways for you to figure out your cashflow. If you're on cashflow row.   ⁓ And please, the last thing I would say is bonus tip for you is cut the excuses. I think when people are on cashflow road, they like to sit here and excuse land. They like to sit here and blame land, which is normal. It's normal to be frustrated. It's normal to say, like it was this, it was that. was like, well, we can't hire people. Stop, stop. You're continuing this in a reality where it's like, it's just not true. I know it feels that way.   but we've got to stop the excuses. We've got to stop the blame and we've got to just say like, this is where we are. And the good news is this is what we're going to do to get out of it. It's hard. Like that takes mental discipline that you've got to have. But that's also where I think like a coach, a cheerleader, someone who's an ally with you. Like Dana said, sometimes it's a hug and sometimes it's a good like push because you need to be pushed. But hopefully these are a few things because I believe that the mental stress of cashflow row.   will create more burnout faster than anything else because you just sit here stressed out of your mind. So Dana, I hope you guys all like listen. I hope you take it. And if you are in cashflow row or you're on burnout row, please like reach out. We will do like a complimentary practice growth call with you. Like, let's see where your gaps are. Let's help you out. Let's get you out of this wildness because success with ease is very possible. And that's what I think Dana and Denali team in our.   whole company is passionate about is getting you the yes model, you as a human being so happy and fulfilled and having the life you want, getting the earnings and profit that you deserve that you are worthy of that you can totally have and getting the systems and team development to support those those top two things, just be able to say yes to whatever you want. So Dana, gosh, thanks for getting in this one. This is a solid and I just appreciate you loving our clients and getting them off of cashflow row and and into the happier land and for being on the podcast today.   Dana (21:49) Yeah, thank you so much for having me. And you know, I just love being able to see clients like win when they came in feeling so burnt out. So it just fills me too. So appreciate it.   Kiera Dent (22:00) ⁓   I love it. Let's get you guys the W's. Let's get you those wins when you didn't think it was possible I think that's my favorite thing is turning the impossible into possible and helping you take dreams into reality So reach out hello at the Dental A team calm and as always thanks for listening We'll catch you next time on the Dental A team podcast  

Fresh from a techno festival, Andrew's planning an escape to Lion's Head National Park in Canada while working through therapy insights about procrastination.

Tu stresses à fond à l'idée de contacter un prospect ? Tu veux que ton premier message fasse mouche ? Je te comprends ma perle naturelle. Mais je pense que tu mets trop d'enjeux là-dessus. Dans cette MM, je t'explique pourquoi le premier contact n'est (souvent) qu'une première pierre. Ce qui fait la différence, c'est la suite. Les petits rappels réguliers. Les touches douces, mais constantes. Je rebondis sur ce que m'a raconté Johann dans son interview : → Lui, il publie des posts LinkedIn pour rester “top of mind”. → Toi, tu peux choisir d'envoyer un mail de temps en temps. De passer un coup de fil. D'envoyer un post-it numérique. Dans tous les cas, l'objectif reste le même : Être présent dans l'esprit de tes prospects… le jour où ils seront prêts à bosser avec toi. Et toi, c'est quoi ta façon préférée de rester “top of mind” ? (Pour me répondre, envoie-moi un mp sur Linkedin

Ped, Burk and Glizzy P kick off this episode in some goofy late-night moods! Adam immediately feels dumb for not understanding a simple joke. Adam has issues with society being less friendly, but is HE the problem? The gang reflects on Osama Bin Laden's death and Burk brings us this week's perfect song. In the meat, Mm!, we discuss birthday parties as a 90s kid! The activities, the food, having your birthday during school, the social levels, impressing your crush and so much more! We end the show playing a brand new movie game hosted by Elizabeth! Come along for this trip on the nostalgia train. Love y'all.

In this deeply inspiring and insightful episode of MM, we sit down with Dr. Mark “Dr. G” Guadagnoli — a neuroscience professor, elite performance coach, author, and host of The Academy podcast. From athlete to academic, Dr. G shares his transformative journey into the world of brain science, performance psychology, and the pursuit of a purpose-driven life. We explore how to reprogram your brain's filters, master your mindset, and discover why the “intelligent struggle” is essential to lasting success. Whether you're in sales, leadership, or personal development, this episode delivers practical tools and deep wisdom to help elevate your internal game — and your external results. Key Topics Covered: Reticular Activating System (RAS) and mental filtering How to reprogram your thoughts and self-talk The science of intelligent struggle and growth Balancing achievement with long-term fulfillment Where neuroscience meets eastern spirituality Breathing, mindfulness, and brain-based happiness Quote Highlight: “Most people give their power to the red light — that doesn't even care about you.” – Dr. G Timestamps: 00:00 – Intro to Dr. Mark “Dr. G” Guadagnoli 02:00 – From athlete to academic: A journey into neuroscience 05:00 – Coincidences or consciousness? 08:30 – Understanding the Reticular Activating System 11:00 – Reprogramming your mental filters 13:20 – Red Light Exercise: Gratitude in action 16:00 – Responding vs reacting (Viktor Frankl insight) 19:00 – Building resilience in high performers 22:40 – Neuroscience meets spirituality 26:00 – The myth of chasing external success 30:00 – Intelligent struggle: How to grow through failure 33:00 – Public speaking and overcoming fear 36:40 – Self-comparison: Judgment vs curiosity 42:00 – Fulfillment vs achievement 46:00 – Aligning values, behaviors, and goals 50:00 – Neuroscience of mindfulness and stillness 54:30 – The power of breathwork 58:00 – Happiness as a byproduct, not the goal 01:01:00 – Advice to 20-year-olds: Personal Legend Roadmap 01:04:00 – Final thoughts and where to connect with Dr. G Like what you heard? Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone ready to level up their mindset. What's one insight you're going to apply today? Hashtags: #Neuroscience #PerformanceCoaching #MindsetMatters #DrG #PersonalDevelopment #SelfTalk #IntelligentStruggle #HighPerformance #TheAcademyPodcast #GrowthMindset

In this special audio drama episode, Sumit Sharma and Chris Mitchell set off to the fictional world of Latveria to uncover the layers of MF DOOM's iconic album “MM..FOOD”. From late-night food spots to record store conversations, their journey blends memory, mystery, and music in true DOOM fashion.Along the way, they're joined by… and bump into… an all-star lineup of DOOM's close friends and fans, including John Robinson, Sean Kantrowitz, MC Paul Barman, Dart Adams, Jason Jagel, Spanish Ran and Stahhr. Together, they break bread over beers, beats and the brilliance of the Supervillain.Tune in, mask up and hear stories about one of the greatest artists of our time. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Featuring an interview with Dr Rafael Fonseca, including the following topics: Safe management of bispecific antibodies and chimeric antigen receptor (CAR) T-cell therapy for patients with multiple myeloma (MM) (0:00) Sequencing bispecific antibodies and CAR T-cell therapy (10:40) Available data with and potential future clinical integration of belantamab mafodotin in the management of MM (16:03) Optimizing maintenance therapy for patients with MM (31:11) Novel management strategies for smoldering myeloma (36:29) Role of anti-CD38 antibodies in the up-front management of MM (41:41) Available data with cereblon E3 ligase modulatory drugs for MM (47:45) CME information and select publications

Featuring a slide presentation and related discussion from Dr Rafael Fonseca, including the following topics: Recent updates from ASH 2024 on the up-front use of anti-CD38 monoclonal antibodies for multiple myeloma (MM) (0:00) Updated data with belantamab mafodotin for the management of MM (12:39) Updated findings with chimeric antigen receptor T cell therapy for the management of MM (17:52) ASH 2024 updates with other novel agents and strategies for the management of MM (21:32) CME information and select publications

Diana continues her conversation with Ronald Davis, husband of Shana Rattler Davis. Diana and Ronald delve into how prayer plays a crucial role in healing from abuse and trauma. Ronald shares his personal journey of overcoming anger towards God, learning to seek God's will through prayer, and finding restoration and transformation. He discusses the importance of consistency in prayer, the impact of long hours in prayer, and shares insights from his new book 'Thy Kingdom Come: The Purpose and Power of Prayer.' Diana resonates with Ronald's experiences and emphasizes the need for personal transformation through prayer rather than seeking changes in others. They both highlight that understanding and relying on the finished work of Jesus Christ can enhance intimacy with God and lead to a life of victory. 00:00 Introduction to the Podcast 00:37 Recap of Previous Episode with Ronald Davis 01:34 The Role of Prayer in Healing from Abuse 03:44 Personal Testimonies and Experiences 07:20 The Power of Consistent Prayer 10:56 Writing the Book on Prayer 15:50 Encouragement and Final Thoughts 22:32 Closing Remarks and Contact Information  website:  www.thykingdomcomebook.com  Purchase his book Thy Kingdom Come: The Purpose and Power of Prayer on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Thy-Kingdom-Come-Purpose-Prayer/dp/B0DKH87X5T/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1 Facebook:  Kingdom Truth Global Link Tree Website: https://dswministries.org Email: diana@dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Ronald Davis Part Two Transcript [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hi everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I was talking with Ronald Davis last time on the podcast. He is Shana Rattler Davis' husband. She was on the show in episode 76. What is a God shift? I recommend you go back and listen to Shayna's interview with me. Would truly bless your heart talking about multiple topics, [00:01:00] particularly her journey with abuse and how she healed. I'm not gonna go through the bio for Ronald for the sake of time, I wanna give him as much time as possible to deliver the rest of his message, what he has for us today on prayer. So be sure to listen to the first episode if you have not yet listened to it. But we're going to carry on. Without further ado, my continuing conversation with Ronald Davis. You said so many things that are absolutely true. And a lot of our listeners, they have trouble, like I did praying in the midst of the abuse or shortly after getting out of the abuse and trying to recover. So tell us about how does prayer fit into your life when you're being abused? When you're angry with God, when you're don't understand what's [00:02:00] going on you're on the couch with God. What do we do with that? Yeah, that's a great question. I was angry with God, I'm gonna be honest with you. If I could be transparent, because at one point I thought God put me together. I thought this was a God thing, and God, why would you allow me to go through this just for it to end this way? Just for me not to be able to see my daughter? So I understand that place. I was also angry with God, but when you know the word of the Lord, you realize that I can't blame God for my own decision. And a lot of times what I've discovered, especially now that I've really learned the way of prayer, is a lot of times we are making decisions and we're wanting God to bless our decision. Instead of praying and seeking God for his will. God's blessing, his grace will always follow his will. So sometimes we end up in situations that our flesh got us into, and then we blame God for it. So we first have to forgive ourselves and once again, we do have to be word [00:03:00] based, not based on our emotions. So if every good and perfect gift comes from above , and I was in a bad marriage, then there may be an indication that maybe I chose wrongly and I have to own that. To forgive myself, not to play the victim or, to be shameful about it, but own it. Forgive myself and understand that God forgave me. Even if I had to get a divorce, God still forgave me. Not that we condoning divorces or we are encouraging divorces. We always push marriage, we always push stay together. Yes. But we understand that there's certain situations that do require for people to end, for marriages to end, because it's worse for them to stay together than it is for them to be apart. And in those situations, we have to trust God in that process. So what I learned to do is to go to God in my brokenness. I went to God in my brokenness and I realized, God, I've made some decisions. I've settled for some things. I've said some things. I'm tired [00:04:00] of the life that I have produced. I want the life that you produce. Mm-hmm. So I would just sit in his presence. I will seek God and I would cry out to him until he began to really deal with my heart, really begin to deal with me. I just began to love on Jesus. I stayed in worship, I stayed in prayer. And in that, you God, you begin to really experience God's love. And once you experience God's love, you'll realize that that was not his will for you. That was not his perfect plan for you. And even if he allows you to go through it, you'll begin to understand now how all things are working together for your good 'cause. You're called to God and you love God and called according to his purpose. And even in that though, I, we say that scripture, all things work together for the good. I have this saying in my, yeah, all things work together for the good, but all things don't have to. That means I don't necessarily. There's some things I go through because I made some bad decisions, but even in that God can get the good out of it, God can restore me. [00:05:00] God is not responsible for the abuse. God is not the one who did that, but God is the one that can heal me from that experience. God is the one that can restore me from going through such a thing. So I will say this real quick. Mm-hmm. So in that process of the seeking God and praying, I remember I did nine hours of prayer for the first time. I pray for nine hours straight, our purpose. I said, I'm gonna worship and pray for nine hours. Ooh. About three and a half hours in, I can hear the spirit whisper to me so clearly that I'm gonna restore the past nine years of your life. I kept worshiping and I kept praying, and I didn't think thing about it. I was on a 21 day fast. And then he said again, he said, I'm gonna restore the last nine years of your life. He said, what happened nine years ago? All right. I'm getting a little emotional now because I just, that's journey. He says, what happened nine years ago? And I didn't realize that on this fast. The fast was ending right around what would've been my nine year anniversary. [00:06:00] Oh, so nine years prior to that is when I got married. Nine years prior to that is when that journey started, because that we separated at seven. So we already separated for a couple years when I had this encounter, right? So he said, what happened nine years ago? And I said, and and I began it this week before because he said, I'm gonna restore the years. You gave me nine hours. I'm gonna restore nine years. So I remember having that conversation with the Holy Spirit, not thinking much about it. Continue to pursue God. I wasn't seeking a spouse, I wasn't praying for a spouse. I just wanted Jesus. And in that pursuit, I tell people all the time, the life that I have now is the life that came out of prayer. Not necessarily that came because I asked for it. It's like God begins to reveal his will, his purpose, and he began to send his person, his, his people into my life. And in the Holy Spirit, begin, your next wife will be the exact opposite. The exact opposite of what you've been through. [00:07:00] So apart the same year that I received that word is the same year that I met my wife. Ooh, that's good. I love that. So, sometime we think we lose time by withdrawing and some people think, well, I need to be out there dating. No, you don't. Allow God to deal with you first. There's nothing more powerful when it comes to the transformation of the believer than spending time in his presence. There's nothing more empowering. There's nothing more enlightening. There's nothing more transformational. There's nothing more encouraging than spending time in his presence. And unfortunately, we don't make the time to do that consistently. And we're wondering why we're not living that life of victory and transformation. It's something that happens when we just sell out to God completely and we become consistent in our pursuit of him. Amen. That . I agree with [00:08:00] you and you say, we've made some decisions that weren't God's will. I did get red flags before when I was dating my now ex and my mother and my sister warned to me and I didn't listen. And I don't know, maybe it was just 'cause I was 22 years old and naive. But I didn't listen to the red flags the Lord sent me. Yes. So I do own that for sure. And when I started dating after my divorce, that was a big mistake. Huge mistake. If I could take back by going on a time machine, I would not have done that because a lot of train wreck relationships, I was not ready. I should have worked on my relationship with Jesus, like you said. And I was smart enough not to marry the guys on the dating websites that were just as abusive as my ex. But it wasn't until I gave up [00:09:00] on meeting anybody and, I'm just going to go to church and serve the Lord. And I didn't really wanna get married either. And then God brought me my current husband when it was time, and it'll be 15 years in March, so, wow. Yeah. And our marriage isn't perfect, but it's built on love and respect and, Jesus is in charge of our marriage, not each other. And it is night and day. Yeah, it is. Yeah. He is completely opposite. And the problem is, a lot of times what we don't realize is when we come out of something, what we came out of needs to get out of us. Because if what we came out of doesn't get out of us, it would attract the same thing. It would attract the same person into your life. It would attract the abuser. It's like a magnetic pulling force. So you gotta allow you to yourself to be delivered [00:10:00] from the victim that you have become, and start seeing yourself differently. Start loving yourself again, valuing yourself again, and therefore you'll have a low tolerance from anything that looks anything like yesterday. And you would know that God has something better for you and you're willing to wait for it. And when it comes, like, it's God. Because like I said, it's the exact opposite. It's like God smiles on you and that's when the restoration comes in because God will now give you someone that will help you get to a place in life that the years of abuse have taken from you. You know what I'm saying? Like where you probably should have been further along the line, but now you got the right person in your life and now there's an acceleration. There's a grace upon your life for speed and in production, and now you're thriving in ministry and everything you want now is coming to pass. It's because God put the right people around you. Amen. Yeah. Now, when did you decide to write this book? Tell us what's [00:11:00] in the book and how did God tell you, Hey, you need to write this book about prayer. Yeah. So this prayer, like, the prayer journey that started so much for me, it started up the ministry that I have now kingdom True global. We do prayer revivals in different regions. We have 365 days of prayer where we pray every single day. We have intercessors praying every single day. We have times where we schedule long prayers that we have a lot going on in the area of prayer, and we'll also be doing a church plant starting this year. So we're excited about that. But, when God began to take me deep in prayer, he began to gimme so much wisdom and revelation. It's like he just began to unlock. And a lot of it was because I began to experience a lot of things in the place of prayer. So in that, I started teaching at this place called Eagle Institute. It's a Bible Institute friend of mine, she's a leader of, and I taught a course on prayer. And it was after that course that the Lord was like, you need to put this in a book, so I talked about the 12 [00:12:00] language, the prayer, the four stages of transformation, the purpose and power of prayer, which is to see his kingdom coming as will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And foundational, the prayer is our intimacy and identity. So all of these truths begin to come out of my encounters with God and my experience with him, and he began to show me why most people don't thrive in prayer. Most people don't thrive in prayer. It's because prayer is about what they want. It's not about what you do. You're calling me out, brother. So the purpose of power of prayer, thy kingdom come is to challenge the body of Christ. Not just to engage prayer on a consistent basis, but to engage prayer with spiritual understanding. To build with the right foundation, building on the foundation of intimacy. Make prayer more about knowing God and communing with God and growing in your identity in Christ than you do with what you want. Because the more we grow in our identity and the more we understand that he's our father, then we [00:13:00] will come to grips with the fact that he knows what we have need of, and then we have the grace to seek versus kingdom and watch all things beyond it to our life. So there, there's prerequisites, and like, and the more we grow in, in identity. The more we grow and provision, the more we grow in identity, the more we grow in power. The more we grow in identity, the more we grow in holiness. So God begins to continue to allow you to grow in the place of prayer that the promises of God will begin to find expression in your life. But most of us, we don't stay in prayer long enough to experience those dimensions. Because the moment we ask for something and it's not happening in the timeframe that we want, we would think either it's not God's will or God is not hearing me. And no God is hearing you. And then maybe God is molding you and shaping you into a person that he wants to respond to. And that's what happens in a place of prayer, consistent prayer. God molds and shapes us into a vessel that he's eager to respond to. Therefore, whatsoever we ask in prayer, believing we shall receive whatsoever, we ask in accordance as will [00:14:00] should be done unto us. Why we become the person. He that he answers, we become that person in prayer, so prayer is a journey. It really is a journey with God as a journey into God. And when you commit to that journey, God will begin to reveal himself first. And as He reveals himself, he transforms you. And as he transforms you, he transforms your life. And as he transforms his life, then you become an agent of transformation. And it all happens in the place of prayer. So this book, thy Kingdom Come the purpose its power and prayer, like I said, it is igniting. I'm getting so many testimonies already, how this book is this impacting and changing lives. But it really gives you a clear understanding of the kingdom agenda and the purpose and power of prayer and understanding the benefits of prayer. What happens when you begin to pray? And most people pray for revival, right? And we look at the history of the church. We pray for revival. What happens? Revival comes. [00:15:00] We no longer pray. Revival dies. See the same level of .Intensity that brings revival is the same level of intensity that sustains revival. It's not that we keep praying for revival. No. We just keep praying with the same level of intensity. And most of what we call revival is simply the Christian life, normal Christian living, finding expression in a believer. That's how we're supposed to be living. We just got so powered, right, right Earth. But with the secret to that lifestyle of constantly walking in the newness of life and walking in the abundance of life is to be constant in prayer, to be consistent in prayer, to be steadfast in prayer, to be earnest in prayer. And when prayer becomes not just something we do to receive, but something we do to live, that's when we really begin to see the benefits of prayer. Yeah. I'll admit that it is not something I'm good at. I am much, much better at Bible study than I am at prayer. I [00:16:00] think transition that I'm going through right now, instead of having a list of, pray for so and so, pray for this. And, and lately God's been telling me because I'll say, I'm praying for my husband to change this, or I'm praying for my coworker, my coworkers on my last nerve or whatever, change my coworker, whatever. And I'm now hearing God saying, no, you need to pray and work on yourself, for love and tolerance and changing yourself instead of praying for the other person to change, you need to change yourself and give them more grace. You were mentioning forgiveness. So yeah, it's definitely a journey and it's not easy. Yeah. And it's one of the things that the devil fights the church the most. Because if you think about it's, most people, sometimes it's a struggle to study, but you find more people that study than you do that pray, it is [00:17:00] something about prayer that the enemy doesn't want the believer to do it. Yeah. Because if we really look at it, what does the Bible teach us as much as we study the Bible said, pray without ceasing. Be constant in prayer. Be instant in prayer. Continue on prayer watching the same way Thanksgiving. Be anxious for nothing, but with prayer. Suffocation, with thanksgiving, make your request known unto God. Men are always to pray and faint not. Pray that you enter not into temptation. So the Bible has much to say about prayer, but our lives often don't exemplify the level of importance that the Bible stresses about prayer. And then the question is then must be asked, is it possible? The reason why we're not living in the fullness of Christ is because we're not living the way of prayer, because we've done the Bible study thing. We got degrees for days. Some of us, we can break down the text. Yes. But, and one thing I'd say, I say in the book, it's in the place of prayer where your theology becomes your reality. Your revelation becomes your experience, and the truth, becomes the truth you do. So that's [00:18:00] what prayer does for us. So no matter how hard it is, the challenge is just to commit to being consistent and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. The more you pray, the more you can pray. The less you pray, the less you can pray. It's just that simple. So when you make that commitment, I don't care if it's 15 minutes a day where you say every single day, I don't want ask God for anything. Prayer. You'll see prayer not just as a time of request. See, it is time with God. So for 15 minutes, I'm gonna commune with God for a hour, I'm gonna commune with God, and I'm going to pray thy kingdom come thy, will be done. I'm gonna pray. Father let you, perfect will be done. Father, let your life be revealed in me. You pray His word over your life. You pray his word over your family, and you keep it simple and you keep it consistent. And you'll be surprised over time how now you will develop a hunger for more of God and you'll develop a hunger for more of [00:19:00] prayer, mm-hmm. So I challenge anyone listening to this interview, no matter where you are, are you pray every so often or you don't pray at all? Decide today. That God is gonna be first. I was reading a book. I recommend this book actually , plus my book, of course, that came to Color, purpose of Power, but is a book. The guy's last name is Eastman. Dick Eastman, the Hour That Changed the World. And he talks about how he decided to be consistent in prayer, where he prayed for just one hour. He broke it down to 12 different things that he gave five minutes to, and he developed a real basic way of developing consistency and prayer, so when it boils down to it, we just gotta commit to that consistency and know and be in there for the long run. Don't think everything's gonna change overnight. See it as a place where you can commune in fellowship with God every single day. I've found that the Psalms help a lot. Yeah. Because when you're like, I don't know what to pray for. I don't know how to do this. [00:20:00] Boy this, the Psalms really help because it even talks about when you're depressed and you're feel abandoned, you feel, far away from God. You just pray those psalms and, mm-hmm. That's a great, jumping off point. Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things we talk about in the book too, it's like, and it is really seeking God for his will, and then understanding the power of just those simple words. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. With that. If that word alone found the expression in every believer's life, we will see what revival looks like. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. If you have nothing else to pray, pray that. Put that on repetition. Say it over and over again until it becomes your reality, till you start seeing that word begin to manifest in your life. I have two prayer points, believe it or not, as much as I pray, I still only have two main prayer points. My two main prayer points. Number one, thy kingdom thy [00:21:00] will be done on earth as it is in heaven. My second prayer point is, father, let Christ be exalted. Let Christ be revealed. Let Christ be glorified in and through my life. So prayer , you're not heard by much saying, even though we should spend a lot of time with God, because I believe in long prayer. I believe in consistent prayer, but you gotta start somewhere. I've grown to that place. But most importantly, it's doesn't necessarily have to be full of a bunch of words. Even that thy kingdom come that alone, that could be pray, thy kingdom come, that will be done in my region. Thy kingdom come. That will be done in my city. Thy kingdom come, that will be done in my finances. Thy kingdom come. That will be done in my body. Father, that your kingdom come, will be done in my marriage. Your kingdom come, will be done in my loved ones. You know what I'm saying? So you take that and you make that a prayer point for everybody you know, and you start there and say, now what happens is over time that you unlock the grace to pray. The Holy Spirit will begin to quicken [00:22:00] your prayer life. And from there it's like you would, you begin, you become a major intercession for the Lord. Amen to that. Yeah. Boy, that's, it is so profound and such a blessing, what you said today. It's gold. It really is helpful hearing those things, to get us back into prayer if we've been absent for a while or to strengthen the prayer life we have. I know I've got some things to work on just listening to you. Where can the folks listening get your book? Yeah, so you could get the book at thy kingdom come book.com and you can, follow me on Facebook at Kingdom Truth, global. All right, so we got your Facebook and I have an Amazon link in there 'cause everybody's on Amazon. Yeah. Thank you. Is, is there anything else that you didn't get to say today that you wanted to [00:23:00] leave the listeners with? I would say this, there's no other access has been granted thrown by the blood of Jesus Christ. So no matter what happened to you, no matter what you've done, we have the grounds of prayer is not how long we can pray. The grounds of prayer is not how often we can pray. The grounds of prayer is the finished work of Jesus Christ and understanding that through the blood of Jesus, we have access. We have been forgiven, we have been redeemed, we have been washed, we have been purified. And now Jesus is the door. Prayer is life inside the door. Prayer the blood of Jesus. The finished work of the cross is God's commitment to you. Prayer is your commitment to God, and you have access. Now, the life sacrifice of Jesus makes our lives sacrifice acceptable. So I encourage all of us to present our bodies, to present our lives as a living sacrifice and a [00:24:00] place of prayer, holy and acceptable to God which is our reasonable service. Give yourself the prayer. I just wanna encourage everybody, to give yourself the prayer as much as, as often as prayer comes to mind. You don't have to know what to say, just do it. You to talk to God. Love him, worship. Praise him, speak his word. So I just wanna encourage everybody with that, know that you have access. And that's one of the reasons why a lot of people don't pray. Where the combination it says, this is the confidence that we have in him, that our hearts condemn us. Not we have confidence towards God, but if our hearts condemn us, right? So God is greater than our heart. So realize God is greater than your heart. The blood sacrifice of Jesus was enough. We have access. Let's pray. You have been such a blessing Ronald to me, and I know the listeners, and God bless you. I hope that you stay in touch. Yes. And I hope the listeners reach out too with any questions or to get the book. And say hi to Shayna for me.[00:25:00] I sure will. Yes, indeed. All right. Take care of yourself. Thanks so much for being on the show. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.    

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Happy Asian American & Pacific Islander Heritage Month! Even though the Trump Administration has eliminated recognizing cultural heritage months, we are still celebrating diversity and inclusion here at APEX Express and KPFA. We believe in lifting up people's voices and tonight on APEX Express the Powerleegirls are focusing on “Asian American Children's book authors”. Powerleegirl hosts Miko Lee and daughter Jalena Keane-Lee speak with: Michele Wong McSween, Gloria Huang, and Andrea Wang   AAPINH Month Children's Books part 1 transcript Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It's time to get on board the Apex Express.   Ayame Keane-Lee: [00:00:49] Happy Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. Even though the Trump administration has eliminated recognizing cultural heritage months, we are still celebrating diversity and inclusion. Here at Apex Express and KPFA, we believe in lifting up people's voices. And tonight on Apex Express, the PowerLeeGirls are focusing on Asian American Children's book authors. PowerLeeGirl hosts Miko Lee and daughter Jalena Keane-Lee. Speak with Michele Wong McSween, Gloria Huang and Andrea Wang. Thanks for joining us tonight on Apex Express. Enjoy the show.   Miko Lee: [00:01:21] Welcome, Michele Wong McSween to Apex Express.    Michele Wong McSween: [00:01:26] Thank you, Miko. It's nice to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:01:28] I'm really happy to talk with you about your whole children's series, Gordon & Li Li, which is absolutely adorable. I wanna start very first with a personal question that I ask all of my guests, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:01:45] I would say my people are really my family starting with, my great, great grandparents who came here down to my grandparents, my parents, and onto my children because, to me family is. The reason why I created Gordon & Li Li in the first place, it was really to bridge that connection for my children. I didn't grow up feeling that connected with my culture because as a fourth generation Chinese American, I was really in the belief that I'm American. Why do I need to know anything about my culture? Why do I need to speak Chinese? I never learned. As a sidebar to that, I never learned to speak Chinese and it didn't really hit me until I had my own kids that I was really doing a disservice to not only my kids, but to myself. my people are my family. I do this for my kids. I do this to almost apologize to my parents for being so, Disrespectful to my amazing culture and I do it for the families who really want to connect and bridge that gap for their own children and for themselves.    Miko Lee: [00:02:53] And what legacy do you carry with you?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:02:55] Again, my family. My, great grandparents. Really. Started our family's legacy with the hard work and the prejudices and all the things that they endured so that we could have a better life. And I've always felt that it is my responsibility to teach my own kids about the sacrifices that were made and not to make them feel guilty, but to just make them appreciate that we are here. Because of the the blood, sweat, and tears that their ancestors did for them. And so we are, eternally grateful for that. I think it's important for us to continue that legacy of always doing our best, being kind and doing what we can do to further the experience of not just our family, but the people in our community that we connect with and to the greater world.    Miko Lee: [00:03:43] when you were growing up, were your parents speaking with you in Chinese and did you hear about your great grandparents and their legacy? Was that part of your upbringing?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:03:52] I heard about my great grandparents in the stories that my mom told us, but to be quite honest, I wasn't receptive to really digging deep in my cultural understanding of. my great-grandfather and what he went through. I know mom, I know he came over in 19 whatever. I know he brought over all these young sons from his village, but I really didn't fully take it in and. No, I didn't hear Chinese spoken in the house much. The only time my parents spoke it was to each other so that we didn't know what they were talking about. They had like this secret code, language. My experience with my language was not, That positive. we did attempt to go to Chinese school only to be teased by all the other kids because we didn't speak it. It didn't end up well. my mom ended up pulling us out and so no, we were really not connected all that much to the language.   Miko Lee: [00:04:48] I can really relate to what you're saying. As a fifth generation Chinese American, and my parents their ancestors came from different provinces, so their dialects were so different that they even spoke to each other in English. 'cause they couldn't understand each other in Chinese. So it happens so often. Yeah. Yeah. And so I really relate to that. I'm wondering if there was an epiphany in your life or a time where you thought, oh, I. I wish I knew more of those stories about my ancestors or was there some catalyst for you that changed?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:05:17] All of this really kind of happened when I moved to New York. I, you know, raised in Sacramento, went to college in the Bay Area, lived in San Francisco for a while with a job, and then I eventually moved to New York. And it wasn't until I came to New York and I met Asians or Chinese Americans like me that actually spoke Chinese and they knew about cool stuff to do in Chinatown. It really opened my eyes to this new cool world of the Chinese culture because I really experienced Chinatown for the first time when I moved to New York. And it was just so incredible to see all these people, living together in this community. And they all looked the same. But here's the thing, they all spoke Chinese, or the majority of them spoke Chinese. So when I went to Chinatown and they would look at me and speak to me in Chinese and I would give them this blank stare. They would just look at me like, oh my gosh, she doesn't even speak her own language. And it kind of made me feel bad. And this was really the first time that it dawned on me that, oh wow, I, I kind of feel like something's missing. And then it really hit me when I had my kids, because they're half Chinese and I thought, oh my gosh, wait a minute, if I'm their last connection to the Chinese culture and I don't speak the language. They have no chance of learning anything about their language they couldn't go that deep into their culture if I didn't learn about it. So that really sparked this whole, Gordon & Li Li journey of learning and discovering language and culture for my kids.    Miko Lee: [00:06:51] Share more about that. How, what happened actually, what was the inspiration for creating the Children's book series?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:06:58] It was really my children, I really felt that it was my responsibility to teach them about their culture and language and, if I didn't know the language, then I better learn it. So I enrolled all of us in different Mandarin courses. They had this, I found this really cute kids' Mandarin class. I went to adult Mandarin classes and I chose Mandarin because that was the approved official language in China. I am from Taishan, My parents spoke Taishanese, but I thought, well, if Mandarin's the official language, I should choose that one probably so that my kids will have at least a better chance at maybe some better jobs in the future or connecting with, the billion people that speak it. I thought Mandarin would be the way to go. When I started going to these classes and I just realized, wow, this is really hard, not just to learn the language, but to learn Mandarin Chinese, because we're not just talking about learning how to say the four different tones. We're talking about reading these characters that if you look at a Chinese character, you have absolutely no idea what it sounds like if you're, if you're learning Spanish or French or German, you can see the letters and kind of sound it out a little bit. But with Chinese characters. No chance. So I found it extremely difficult and I realized, wow, I really need to support my kids more because if I am going to be the one that's going to be bridging this connection for them, I need to learn more and I need to find some more resources to help us. when we would have bedtime story time, that whole routine. That was always the favorite time of my kids to be really, quiet and they would really absorb what I was saying, or we would talk about our days or just talk about funny things and I realized, wow, these books that they love and we have to read over and over and over again. this is the way that they're going to get the information. And I started searching high and low for these books. back in 2006, they didn't exist. and so I realized if they didn't exist and I really wanted them for my kids, then I needed to create them. That's the impetus, is there was nothing out there and I really wanted it so badly that I had to create it myself.   Miko Lee: [00:09:09] Oh, I love that. And I understand you started out self-publishing. Can you talk a little bit about that journey?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:09:15] I'm glad I didn't know what I know today because it was really hard. luckily I had, A friend who used to work for a toy company, it was all through connections. there was nothing really on Google about it. there was no Amazon print on demand. There were none of these companies that provide these services like today. So I just kept asking questions. Hey, do you know a toy manufacturer in China that maybe prints books? Do you know a company that could help me? get my books to the states. Do you know an illustrator that can help me illustrate my books? Because I had gone to fashion design school, but I had not learned to illustrate characters or things in a book. So asking questions and not being afraid to ask the questions was really how I was able to do it because, Without the help of friends and family, I wouldn't have been able to do this. I had all my friends look at my books, show them to their kids. I had my kids look at them, and I kind of just figured it out as I went along. Ultimately when I did publish my first book, I had so much support from my kids' schools. To read the books there, I had support from a local play space for kids that we would go to. I really leaned on my community to help me, get the books out there, or actually it was just one at the time. Two years later I self-published two more books. So I had three in total. no one tells you that when you self-publish a book, the easy part is actually creating it. The hard part is what comes after that, which is the pr, the marketing, the pounding, the pavement, knocking on the doors to ask people to buy your books, and that was really hard for me. I would just take my books in a bag and I would explain my story to people and I would show them my books. sometimes they would say, okay, I'll take one of each, or Okay, we'll try it out. and slowly but surely they would reorder from me. I just slowly, slowly built up, a whole Roster of bookstores and I kept doing events in New York.    I started doing events in Los Angeles and San Francisco, and through that I gained some following, some fans and people would tell their friends about me. they would give them to their nieces they would give them to their cousin's kids, or, things like that. I knew that I had to do it because my ultimate goal was to have Scholastic be my publisher. That was my ultimate goal. Because they are the publisher that I grew up with, that I love that I connected with, that I was so excited to get their book club, little flyer. I would check off every book that I wanted. And my mom never said no. She always let me get every single book I wanted. I realize now that that's what really Created the love of books for me is just having access to them and, going to the libraries and seeing all these books on the bookshelves and being able to take them out and read them on the spot. And then if I loved them enough, I would check them out and take them home and read them over and over. So it was really, my experience, having that love for books that I thought, oh gosh, it would be a dream. To have Scholastic become my publisher. So after 10 long years of events and community outreach and selling to these bookstores, I finally thought, okay, I've sold, about 17,000, 18,000 books. Maybe, maybe now I can take my series to them. I also had created an app. Maybe I can take this to them and show them what I've done. Maybe they'll be interested in acquiring me. And I got an appointment with the editor and I pitched my books on my app and within a couple of days they offered to acquire my books, which was my dream come true. So anyway, that was a very long story for how self-publishing really is and how ultimately it really helped my dream come true.    Miko Lee: [00:13:08] Now your books are on this Scholastic book, fair Circuit, right?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:13:13] Yes, they are. Well, it's actually just one book. They took the three books, which were everyday Words. Count in Mandarin and learn animals in Mandarin. They took all three books and they put them in one big compilation book, which is called My First Mandarin Words with Gordon & Li Li. So it's a bigger book. It's a bigger board book. Still very, very sturdy and it's a great, starter book for any family because it has those three first themes that were the first themes that I taught my own boys, and I think. It just, it's very natural for kids to want to learn how to count. animals were, and my kids were animal lovers, so I knew that that's what would keep them interested in learning Mandarin because they actually loved the topic. So, yes, my first mandarin words with Gordon & Li Li does live on Scholastics big roster.   Miko Lee: [00:14:01] Fun. Your dream come true. I love it. Yeah. Thanks. And you were speaking earlier about your background in fashion design. Has there been any impact of your fashion design background on your voice as a children's book author?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:14:14] I don't know if my background as a fashion designer has had any impact on my voice. I think it's had an impact on how I imagined my books and how I color my books and how I designed them because of working with, you know, color palettes and, and putting together collections I can visually see and, can anticipate. Because I have that background, I can kind of anticipate what a customer might want. And also, you know, speaking with people at my events and seeing what kids gravitate to, that also helps. But I think there's so much more to being an author than just writing the books. You know, when I go to my events, I have a table display, I have setups, I have props, I have, I actually now have a, a small. Capsule of merchandise because I missed designing clothes. So I have a teeny collection of, you know, sweaters, hoodies, onesies, a tote bag, and plushies   Miko Lee: [00:15:04] they're super cute by the way.    Michele Wong McSween: [00:15:06] Oh, thank you. So, you know, fashion has come in in different ways and I think having that background has really helped. kind of become who they are    Miko Lee: [00:15:17] Can you tell us about the latest book in the series, which is Gordon and Li Li All About Me. Can you tell a little bit about your latest?   Michele Wong McSween: [00:15:25] Gordon & Li Li All About Me is really, it's, to me, it's. I think my most fun interactive book because it really gets kids and parents up and out of their chairs, out of their seats and moving around. And you know, as a parent, I always would think about the kind of books that my kids would gravitate towards. What would they want to read and what as a parent would I want to read with my kids? Because really reading is all about connection with your kids. That's what I loved about books is it gave me a way to connect with my kids. And so a book about body parts to me is just a really fun way to be animated and get up and move around and you can tickle and, and squeeze and shake it around and dance around. And, you know, having three boys, my house was just like a big energy ball. So I knew that this book would be a really fun one for families and I have two nieces and a nephew, and I now, they're my new target market testers, and they just loved it. They had so much fun pointing to their body parts and the book ends with head, shoulders, knees, and toes in English and in Mandarin. And so of course. Every kid knows head, shoulders, knees, and toes in English. So we sing that. We get up, we point to our pottered parts, we shake it around, we dance around. And then the fun part is teaching them head, shoulders, knees, and toes in Mandarin because they're already familiar with the song. It's not scary to learn something in Mandarin. It just kind of naturally happens. And so I think the All About Me book is just a really fun way to connect with kids. I've actually launched it at a couple of events already and the response to the book has been overwhelming. I was at the Brooklyn Children's Museum and even the president of the museum came and did the head shoulders. Knees and toes, songs with us. It was so much fun. Everybody was dancing around and having a great time. So I'm just really, really excited for people to pick up this book and really learn about the body. It's, you know, body positivity, it's body awareness, and it's just a great way to connect with your kids.   Miko Lee: [00:17:31] So fun. I, I saw that you're recently at the Asian American Book Con. Can you talk a little bit about that experience?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:17:38] Oh, that was great. That was the first of its kind and. I led the entire author segment of it. I would say individual authors. There were, there were, publishing companies that brought in their own authors, but I was responsible for bringing in the independent authors. And so I think we had about eight of us. There were Indian, Korean, Chinese, Taiwanese, and we all came together for this one really special day of celebrating our voices and lifting each other up. And there was so much energy and so much positivity in that event, and I. Actually was just thinking about reaching out to the organizers last year and seeing if we could maybe do, part two? So, I'm glad you brought that up. It was a really positive experience.    Miko Lee: [00:18:27] So we're celebrating the end of Asian American Pacific Islander Native Hawaiian month. Can you tell us why this month is important to you?    Michele Wong McSween: [00:18:36] When you have something designated and set aside as, this is the month that we're going to be celebrating Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific Islander heritage all month long, I think it kind of perks up. People's ears and they think, oh wow, this is a great opportunity for me to see what's happening in my community. I think it just brings the awareness to. The broader community and ultimately the world. And I think when we learn about each other and each other's cultures, it brings us closer together and makes us realize that we're really not that different from each other. And I think when there are so many events happening now it peaks the interest of people in the neighborhood that might otherwise not know about it and it can, really bring us closer together as a community.   Miko Lee: [00:19:27] Michelle Wong McSween, thank you so much for joining me on Apex Express. It's great to hear more about you and about your latest book Gordon & Li Li and the entire series. Thank you so much.    Michele Wong McSween: [00:19:39] Thank you, Miko   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:19:40] Thank you all so much for joining us. I'm here with Gloria l Huang, author of Kaya of the Ocean. Thank you so much for joining us, Gloria.    Gloria Huang: [00:19:48] Oh, thanks so much for having me here.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:19:50] So first off, one question that we're asking all of our guests on our show tonight is, who are your people? However you identify, you know, your community, your ancestors, and what legacy do you carry with you?    Gloria Huang: [00:20:01] Oh, that's such a good question. So I am my heritage is Chinese. My parents were born in China and then grew up in Taiwan. And I myself was actually born in Canada. But then moved the states pretty young and and American Canadian dual citizen and now, but I, my heritage plays a lot into my. Kind of my worldview. It really shaped, how I grew up and how I saw things. And so it features very prominently in my writing and in my stories as you could probably tell from Kaya the ocean.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:20:34] Yes. And I love the book so much. It was such a    Gloria Huang: [00:20:37] thank you,    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:20:38] amazing read. And I'm also half Chinese and love the ocean. Just love the beach so much and have always felt such a connection with the water. I don't wanna give away too much things about the book, but I was wondering if you could talk about your inspiration for writing it and a little bit about, setting and everything.   Gloria Huang: [00:20:56] Of course. So the inspiration for the book actually started I came up with the idea when the world was first emerging from the pandemic and I was seeing a lot of people obviously experiencing a lot of anxiety, but a lot of children very close to me in my life. And they were experiencing it for the first time, which was can be so difficult. I remember when it happened to me and there's just this tendency to. Worry that there's something wrong with you or that you've done something and you feel so alone. And so I remember standing by the ocean one night actually and thinking that I'd really love to write a book about a girl who is struggling with. The anxiety just to be able to send a message to all these kids that there's nothing wrong with them. They're not alone and really all parts of who they are. Even the parts they might not love so much are important parts of these amazing, beautiful, complicated people. They are. So that was the inspiration for that part of the story, the setting. I was very inspired. As you mentioned, the ocean is a huge inspiration to me. It actually comes into my mind, a lot of my stories and someone pointed that out once and I was like, you're right, it does. And I think part of it is that I love the ocean. I love the beach. I love being there, but I'm also so in awe of this powerful thing that, you know, where we know so little about it. It is. There's so much mystery to it. It can look so beautiful on the surface and be so dangerous underneath. I love it as a metaphor. I love it as a part of nature. So I think that was a huge part of why I wanted to incorporate that, especially because I think it also plays well into the metaphor for how some people experience anxiety and you can be calm on the surface, but so much is happening underneath.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:22:29] Absolutely. Yeah. Those interplay with each other and are metaphors for each other in such a beautiful way, mirror the experience. Yeah. I wanted to talk a little bit more about anxiety and particular, as a young Asian American girl the cultural specificity of having anxiety as a young Asian American woman.    Gloria Huang: [00:22:46] Yes I definitely think it's no coincidence. I think that anxiety often goes hand in hand with perfectionism and pressure and I, many people feel that kind of pressure, but certainly a young Asian girl especially with immigrant parents, will feel specific kind of pressure. And so I was really trying to portray that, Somebody once said to me, they were like, oh, I really like how Kaya on the surface seems so put together. She's, got really good grades. She works really hard at school. She's close to her parents, but there's all this going on underneath. And I actually think that's not unusual in terms of that experience for Asian American children of immigrants, and especially if you're female I was really trying to. Tease that out. And then in addition I think there's a tendency, and this might exist in other cultures as well, but in Asian culture, at least in my family history there's a tendency not to really want to talk about mental health. There was a, there's a joke in my family that my parents thought anything could be solved with good sleep and good nutrition, like anytime you had any problem. And I think that there is a, there's a. resistance to feeling like your child can be struggling in a way you can't help them. So I, really wanted to touch on that, part of the cultural pressures at play in kaya's life.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:23:59] And you did so beautifully and it was very relatable, as a anxious Asian girly. And also just, the discussion of big feelings and somehow, having inklings that you may be more powerful than you even realize, but the kind of like emotions that come with that too.    Gloria Huang: [00:24:15] Yes. I think that's a huge part of it is that like when you experience these huge feelings they feel powerful, know, in a negative way. But what I was really trying to get at was, there is also power in accepting these parts of yourself and realizing that They can make up this powerful being that you are, even if you might not love them in that moment.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:24:34] Yeah. I felt very seen by the book and I, couldn't help but wonder wow, what would it have been like if I had read this when I was, 13 or 12 or kind of Closer to the age of the characters in the book.   Gloria Huang: [00:24:45] Thank you so much for saying that it actually means a lot because a lot of my motivation when I do write these books is to write for people who are either of that age or, wish they had a book like that at that age, which is also how I feel a lot about books nowadays and oh, I, I'm so glad that exists. I wish that had been around when I was that age.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:25:03] Yes. Were there any books that really set an example for you that either you read, maybe when you were, in the young adult. Age range or that you've read now as an adult where you're like, okay, this is definitely the audience that I wanna be writing for.   Gloria Huang: [00:25:17] Definitely. I actually love this question 'cause I'm a big reader and so I love talking about books . When I was a kid, middle grade books were my gateway into my love of reading. So I still remember a lot of my favorite books, but I would say a recent book, it's actually maybe not that recent now, it's maybe a couple years old, but a book that really. Had an effect on the middle grade book was when you trap a tiger by Tae Keller and it explores. The kind of Korean experience, but also through the prism of kind of understanding generational grief. And it was just so beautifully done and really made an impact on me. So that was one recently that I thought was really powerful. And, I was like, this is an important book. This is definitely a book I would've loved as a child. When I was younger and I was reading books, there were three books that meant a lot to me. One was called the true confessions of Charlotte Doyle, and it was like a swashbuckling adventure story starring a girl, which was, at that time not very common. And it was, it meant, it was so earth shattering to me to be able to see a female character in that role. So that was great. There's a book called. Homecoming by Cynthia Voigt. And it's an adventure story and it also stars. The main character is a very strong female character and Tuck everlasting, which I just think is a beautiful book. It's also female characters. Now I'm saying it out loud. They are all female main characters. And all about, existentialism and adventure and things that, it was important for me to see. Female characters exploring. But I did also wanna say that when I was reading middle grade books, some of my favorite books included a series called, babysitters Club, which I think that they've redone now as a graphic novel. And that was actually really important, not necessarily for the stories, but because there's a character named Claudia Kishi who. Was a Japanese American character and she absolutely shattered the minds of, I think all kids that age were Asian descent and female in reading these books because there just wasn't a character like her before that, she was so cool and artistic but she had immigrant parents and she had a sister who was very good at math and they didn't get along and she loved junk food and she was. So incredibly nuanced and it was just not something that we saw back then. So that really inspired me, I think, to want to add to the diversity of voices. And thankfully there are many more diverse voices now than when I was reading.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:30] I love that. And I also feel like books that you read at that age, they stay with you forever.   Gloria Huang: [00:27:35] They really do.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:27:35] And they shape so much of like your worldview and your friendships. And I'm curious, 'cause I know the book was released this year in January. Mm-hmm. So what has it been like for you on your book tour and what's been some other responses that you've heard? I.    Gloria Huang: [00:27:48] It's been really great. It was so exciting to do the book launch and then just the amount of support from the writing community from, my, my kind of network, my agents and my publisher and editor. And also just readers. It's been really great. But one thing I think I wasn't expecting to love quite so much, not because I was expecting to not love it. I just said, it occurred to me that I would feel this way is getting feedback from, child readers is amazing because, I think as writers we love feedback no matter what. And if it's positive feedback, that's even better. But having a child reach out and as some of my friends will send a video of their. Children reacting to the book or they'll, their, let their child type out a text messages and just to hear how the book hits with them and to hear their excitement or to hear that they were moved or to have them want to know what happens next. It meant so much to me because it was, they're the target audience and to have them feel seen in that way was just, it's just the ultimate kind of powerful feeling.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:28:51] That is so sweet. Oh my gosh. I can only imagine. And so you're talking about the young readers. Yes. But I'm also curious if you have any advice or thoughts for young writers who might be wanting to share and get similar stories out to the world?   Gloria Huang: [00:29:05] Yeah I definitely do. And one of the. Experiences I've had that's been great is I've been doing, some school visits and I go and I talk about the book, but I actually talk about the writing process. And when I do that, I really talk to the kids. As if they're writers. The one of the first questions I ask is, hold up your hand. If you love writing or you think you want me, you might wanna be a writer someday. And a lot of hands go up and I tell them like, what the publishing process is, what are, the different genre options, what you might wanna consider, how you come up with an idea, how you sit down and write it, how you reach out to an agent. And I am surprised at how. Intensely, they're hanging onto every word and they're insightful questions after it. It shows me that a lot of them are really thinking about this. I think for one of the school visits, I remember someone held up her hand and she said what is the youngest age I. Someone has been able to be published. And I thought that was great. Because they're so inspired and you can tell that, that they're thinking for the first time this is a possibility. I have all kinds of advice during the school visits, the main piece of advice is really. Just that it can be a tough industry. writing is a very isolated process usually. There's a lot of kind of obstacles and there's a lot of gatekeeping. And so I tell 'em that the most important thing they can do is just keep pushing through and not to let any, setbacks stop them, because the ultimate goal is to reach even just one person.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:30:24] Absolutely. And what kind of advice do you give around learning how to hone your own voice and also having discipline when it comes to an artistic practice?   Gloria Huang: [00:30:33] Yeah, I think that's such a great question. And I was gonna say this piece of advice is probably more for I. Older writers, but adult writers, I guess I should say. The one thing that I've really been thinking about having published a middle grade book is the very specific and unique experience of writing for middle grade audiences. I think a lot of my friends who write for older audience groups, young adults, adults, They have their own challenges, but one of the things that is different is when they're writing, they are writing for the same target audience. That's also the decision makers. So generally, adults and young adults are picking their own books, and they're speaking to someone who will. Ultimately be the ones to pick up the books where when you're writing for middle grade audiences they're not usually the decision makers. at bookstores, they may or may not be in charge of which book they buy, in. Schools, usually it's a librarian or a teacher. So in some ways you're writing for one audience, but you're also writing a subject matter that you're hoping the decision makers will decide is worthy to put in front of your ultimate readers. So that's one challenge. And then the other challenge is I think middle grade audiences are so. fascinating because they're going through this amazingly unusual time in their lives, whether it's eventful and there's new experiences and that can be exciting, but also scary. So there's a lot to mind in terms of topics, but they are also a mixture of being very sophisticated readers who are on the cusp of being teens. And so there's a healthy dose of, skepticism, but they're still young enough that they. Believe in magic, at least in the literary world. So you, there's a lot of room to play with that. But they also. They sound different. They speak differently than adults. So it's important to get the dialogue, for me I, turn to children in my life, including my own, just to do a check to make sure that the dialogue sounds authentic and something that, people, that kids would say. So a lot of thoughts there, but I think, I've been thinking a lot about middle grade and writing for middle grade, and what a unique experience it is.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:32:26] Yeah, that's such a good point about the decision maker and having the multiple audiences, and I'm sure sometimes the decision makers are reading the books too, right? Or reading it with their kids or what have you. For your personal writing practice, are there any upcoming projects that you can share with us? And how do you stay inspired for what I imagine is like the long haul of writing something.    Gloria Huang: [00:32:45] I'm happiest when I have like several projects in the pipeline. So as soon as I am done a book or it's, outta my hands, it's with my agents or my editors. I'm looking to write another book. And I think sometimes I probably overwhelm my amazing book before agents. 'cause I'm like, I'm ready to start another story. And they're like, we're still looking at the book you just sent us. But I, that's very much how. I am happiest. I would definitely say that everybody finds their own rhythm. I'm in some writers groups and some people are incredibly fast drafters and just need multiple projects at a time. And some people are like, no, I need to work on one project and I need to have it to perfection and I'm gonna work on it for a year or two. And I think whatever works for the individual artist, I think is the best kind of process for them. But yes, for me it's very much about having multiple projects. I think I'm most inspired when I have different projects going at the same time. finding your own rhythm, I think is my advice.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:33:40] kaya of the ocean has, strong themes and storylines about, myths, mythology, Chinese mythology, and goddesses. I'm curious if you wanna talk any more about that and then also if that shows up in any of the other projects you're working on    Gloria Huang: [00:33:54] Yes, the Chinese mythological water goddess that features. Pretty prominently in Kaya of the Ocean is Matsu. And I find her to be such a fascinating character. She is a real goddess who's worshiped still in Asia. I think. Fishermen often will, pray to her for safe passage when they go out on the water. And my father told me about her when I was younger he told me like the side stories and I thought that was really interesting. But it was only when I started thinking about this book that I thought, I'd love to, I'd love to incorporate her. I hadn't heard about her too much in, in the fictional world, even though I knew she was still like a revered goddess. But I thought it was so cool that she was this strong. I. Strong female figure in a space that didn't always have that, hundreds of years ago. And so I dove into her story a little bit and found out, the story is that she was once a human child who loved to read and then she was afraid of swimming in water until she was older and then she drowned, saving, trying to save some relatives and it was interesting 'cause I'd already started plotting out Kaya and writing Kaya. And so much of her story wove easily into what I had already come up with. Like there, I think she has two sidekicks that were one time enemies that she, made into her friends and I'd already had Kaya written with two friends, Naomi and Ana. So I, there was just so much that I felt was kismet. And it was really fun to be able to weave that story together and fictionalize it. But I think it was also meaningful for me to be able to do that because. When I was younger, I loved reading Greek mythology. the stories are beautiful and they've been redone in beautiful ways, but it definitely was an area where I didn't necessarily see myself reflected. As part of my goal to add to the diversity of voices, I really wanted to feature Chinese mythology and bring those stories in so that. Kids can either see themselves reflected in those stories and or understand a new kind of set of mythology and learn about a new culture.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:35:46] Yes. I'm so glad you put it that way because it is, it's such a privilege to have access to, our own I. Cultural stories and knowledge through these, like fun and modern interpretations. Definitely. So I'm so glad that this can provide that.    Gloria Huang: [00:36:00] Oh, thank you. I did realize I didn't answer your other question, which is does it feature my other works? Which so I have sold another middle grade novel and I'm, it's not announced yet. I'm hoping to announce it soon. And I have some other. Books. I'm working on a young adult novel so far. They have not featured Chinese mythology, but I do definitely have a type that my most of my books tend to be contemporary settings, but with elements of speculative. Fantasy, just like the light touch of that and sometimes a little bit of historical elements as well. So they, they definitely all have that similar motif, but so far chi of the ocean is the only one to feature a Chinese mythological goddess.   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:36:43] Thank you so much for sharing that. I love that. And I really love the relationship that Kaya had with her two friends and just and then also like the cousin that comes and just capturing like the banter amongst, amongst the girls.    Gloria Huang: [00:36:56] Thank you so much. that was really important to me, I think because at the stage that Kaia is in her life the loves of her life really are her two friends, Naomi and Ana, and they feature very prominently in how she learns to cope with her anxiety and her symptoms of anxiety. And so I really, I think that I really wanted to center her their friendship as much as possible. So I'm I'm glad that you saw it that way too.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:37:19] Yeah. And I feel like, I mean, it truly is the most important relationship. And so it's nice when works of fiction and yeah, works of fiction, can reflect that in such a beautiful way. I know you mentioned that you have daughters or have children?    Gloria Huang: [00:37:32] I do, yes. I have a son and a daughter. And my daughter actually was quite involved because when I first started writing Kaya, I think she was exactly of the age that she would be the target reader group. And so she actually helped Beta read it. She provided a lot of feedback. She became like a cheerleader. She was definitely involved in the process and I think that was really exciting for her. my son became of the reading age once it came out, so he reads it and he's a big fan too,   Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:00] that's so sweet. I love that your daughter was part of the editing process too. That's amazing.    Gloria Huang: [00:38:04] Yeah. Yeah. She loves writing and always says she wants to be a writer herself, so it was really special that she got to be part of this and see it up close.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:13] Oh wow. Do you think you would do any collaborative projects with her in the future?   Gloria Huang: [00:38:16] It's so funny that you say that. She always suggests that. And then sometimes they'll actually start a Google doc and they'll say, let's write a story together. And we all have, of course, very different writing styles. And then at some point they both actually usually just start reading what I'm writing. And at that point I'm like, this is not collaborative. You have to write as well. So we've had a couple of false starts, but that's always a joke that we're gonna do that together.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:38:39] that's so sweet. What else is upcoming for you? I know this is, Asian American and native Hawaiian Pacific Islander month right now, and the episode will come out towards the end of May. So if there's anything else coming up from you for this month or for June or the summer. Yeah. We'd love to hear what you have going on.    Gloria Huang: [00:38:57] Oh, yeah. Today actually Kaya's audio book was released people can listen to it. It was narrated by this amazing, narrator, Cindy K. And so anywhere you find audio books is available. And that was really cool. I've listened to a little bit of it and you, when you write, you hear the words in your head one way, and then it's amazing to hear like another artist do their take on it. So that's really cool. I will be at the Bay Area book Festival at the end of the month of May. There. Doing like different panels and I'll be on a panel. it's about Fantastical Worlds. I'm really excited about that. hopefully we'll be able to announce this other book soon. As you, you may know publishing is a very long lead time it will be a while before it's released, but I think the hope is to release it during, a API month as well just not this year. And working on a young adult novel that hopefully we can go on submission with at some point. But it's an exciting time for sure.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:39:51] Wow, that does sound so exciting. I can't wait to hear about your new projects and to continue to read the work that you put out into the world. Is there anything else that you'd like to discuss or talk about?   Gloria Huang: [00:40:01] I think just to say a thank you to you for, having me on here and reading Kaya of the Ocean and really anyone who's been interested in joining Kaya and her friends on their journey. It's just, it's so amazing, I think, to create these characters that become real to you, and then have them become real to other people. I don't have the words to describe how meaningful it is to me, but thank you.    Jalena Keane-Lee: [00:40:24] Thank you for letting us join into the world of Kaya for a little bit 'cause it was very fun and healing and all of the amazing things. And thanks so much for joining us today on Apex Express.    Gloria Huang: [00:40:36] For sure. Thanks so much.   Miko Lee: [00:40:38] Welcome, Andrea Wang, award-winning children's book author to Apex Express.    Andrea Wang: [00:40:43] Thank you, Miko. I'm so happy to be here.    Miko Lee: [00:40:46] Happy to have you. I'd love to start first with a personal question, which is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?   Andrea Wang: [00:40:57] My people are from China. My mother's family belonged to an ethnic minority, called the Haka or the Kaja people, and she and her siblings were. A military family, and we're each born in a different province. And when the Chinese Civil War ended in 1949, they went to Taiwan where she grew up and immigrated to the United States in 1965 or 1966. My father's family are from Guangdong Province, and so I'm Cantonese on that side, although I don't speak any Cantonese. And he went to Hong Kong after the Chinese Civil War. So I am the daughter of Chinese immigrants, second generation Chinese American.    Miko Lee: [00:42:01] And what legacy do you carry with you?   Andrea Wang:[00:42:03]  I carry the legacy of their stories, both the ones that I know and the ones that I don't know yet.    Miko Lee: [00:42:12] Ooh. It sounds like there's lots of juicy things for you still to discover. That is fun.    Andrea Wang: [00:42:16] Yes.    Miko Lee: [00:42:17] Today we're talking about your new book, watercress, can you share what the audience, what the book is about, and then what is your inspiration for this book?    Andrea Wang: [00:42:25] So the book is about a Chinese American girl who is growing up in rural Ohio and her parents spot watercress growing in a ditch by the side of the road, and they immediately pull over and make her enter older brother, get out of the car and get down into the ditch with them and collect this. Vegetable, but to her it's a weed. And so when they serve it to her and her family at dinner, she really is unhappy about this and. For her, picking food out of a ditch has a really different meaning than it does to her parents who survived a lot of hardship in China. And it's not until her mom tells her a story about her childhood growing up in China and spoiler alert, loses a sibling to the famine that the girl begins to understand and better appreciate her parents, her culture, and her heritage.   Miko Lee: [00:43:29] And the inspiration for this book.    Andrea Wang: [00:43:32] So the inspiration is largely my own life. this is a semi autobiographical story. The memory of picking watercress by the side of the road was just something that I couldn't forget, I don't know why this memory continued to haunt me into adulthood. And then after my mom passed away, I started writing down, memories and stories of being with my family in order to maintain a connection to her. When I wrote this, at first it was a personal essay and it just wasn't working. I would put it away and I would occasionally take it out and I would put it away and take it out and work on it again. And it wasn't until I decided to pursue writing for young people that I completely changed the manuscript from a personal essay into a picture book. But at that point it still wasn't working. It was in third person and it wasn't very personal It took me several more years to figure out the heart of the story for me. So it was largely based on my own memories and my mother's childhood stories that she shared with me.   Miko Lee: [00:44:39] Can you share more about the power of memory and the artistic process? 'cause you've written many books and in different genres as well, but can you talk a little bit more about memory and its impact on your work?   Andrea Wang: [00:44:52] Yeah, that's a great question. I tend to write primarily for myself. And to figure out how I felt about certain experiences, how they've changed me, to try and process things I feel like I remember a lot about my childhood. parts of it are very vivid and I like to go back to those. Moments that have stuck with me all these years and explore what it means to me. Like I'm just very curious about why I remember certain things watercress was largely my way of processing my childhood feelings of shame about my family and my culture. I have leaned into that and am still writing stories about identity and the struggle to find our identity. Memory has a lot to do with it. I put myself in every single book.    Miko Lee: [00:45:45] Ooh, that's so interesting. And you're talking a little bit about shame and overcoming that. I'm wondering if you could speak more on, if you feel like memories hold the power to heal.    Andrea Wang: [00:45:56] I firmly believe that memories hold the power to heal. I think that writing watercress and talking about these feelings has really helped me, , heal from, that sort of trauma of not feeling like I belonged as a kid and also that I may have been. Not the nicest kid to my parents, not the most filial, right? And so writing this story was, as I say in the author's note, sort of an apology and a love letter to my parents. So it's been very healing and healing to hear about from all the. People who have read the book and had it resonate with them, the things that they regretted in their lives and hoped to, heal as well.    Miko Lee: [00:46:42] Oh, have you heard that story a lot from adult readers?   Andrea Wang: [00:46:46] I have. They will often tell me about the things that their parents did that embarrassed them. A lot of foraging stories, but also stories about, relatives and ancestors who were sharecroppers or indigenous peoples. And it's just been fascinating how many people connect to the story on different levels. There is that theme of poverty. I think recognizing. That's not often talked about in children's books, I think makes people feel very seen.   Miko Lee: [00:47:14] Yeah. That feeling of shame is really showcased by the illustrator Jason Chin. I mean your young you character kind of has a grumpy look on their face. And it was just so fun. Even in the book notes, Jason Chin, the illustrator, writes about how he combined both the western and eastern style of art, but also his similar cross-cultural background. I'm wondering when you very first saw the artwork and this was kind of young you did anything surprise you by it?    Andrea Wang: [00:47:42] I mean, it's amazing, gorgeous artwork and I was really struck by how he dealt with the flashbacks because when I sold this manuscript, I. Had no idea how an illustrator would deal with how interior it is and, , and how they would tackle those flashbacks. And there's one spread where on the left hand side of the page, it shows the main character's current time and then it morphs across the gutter of the book into. The moms past and her childhood memories in China, and it was just exquisite is really the only way to describe it. It was, it's just brilliant, and amazing. We don't, as picture book authors typically get to work with our illustrators. We often do not have contact with them through the making of a picture book. But in this case. Our editors said since it was such a personal story for me, that he, , felt that Jason and I should collaborate. And so I provided photos, family photos, photos of Ohio, lots of different, , source materials to Jason and would talk to him about the feelings that young me in the book went through. And so the fact that, he was able to take all of that and put it on the page, it was just. Spectacular.    Miko Lee: [00:49:01] Oh, that's so fun. I also understand that you love mythical creatures as you I, and one of your children's books is the Nian Monster, which I love. I'm wondering what is your favorite mythical creature and why?   Andrea Wang: [00:49:15] I. Have been sort of fascinated with the qilin, the, or they call it the Chinese unicorn. Right. Although it looks very different from what we think of a, a European unicorn looks like. Yes. And I think it's because they're supposed to be this really benevolent, creature and Have all sorts of powers and I would love to do more research about the qilin and, you know, incorporate that into a book someday.   Miko Lee: [00:49:42] Ooh, fun. Next book. I love it. you have so many books and I'm really curious about your upcoming book Worthy about Joseph Pierce. I love these as Helen Zia talks about these. MIH moments that are missing in history. And Joseph Pierce was the highest ranking Chinese American man who fought in the Civil War. Some people might recognize this picture of this Chinese American guy in a kind of civil war, uniform. Can you tell us one, when is the book being released and a little bit more about it?    Andrea Wang: [00:50:11] Sure. The book is being released on September 9th, 2025, and it is. A picture book, which we typically think of as for younger readers, but it is 64 pages. So you know, it's an all ages picture book. I think my editor and I would like to say, and it is the story of a Chinese boy born in the, First half of the 18 hundreds in China in Guangdong province, and was sold by his father to an American ship captain named Amos Peck. the reasons for that are, lost to time, right? He left no primary sources behind, there was so much going on in China at the time. Famine war, you know, all of these, Difficult things that his father probably sold him in order to keep the rest of the family alive and as well as give him the opportunity to have a better life. And he did end up in Connecticut. He was raised with the captain's, siblings and sent to school and treated almost like a member of the family except for the fact that he was. Clearly Chinese and there were very few Chinese people in, Connecticut at that time. he joined the Union Army when he came of age and was able to leverage his service into gaining citizenship, which really people of color, weren't really able to do successfully back then. And so. He gained a citizenship. He married, he had a family. He was able to own property and accomplish all these amazing things. Sort of right before the Chinese exclusion Act was, enacted. So he was a very brave guy.    Miko Lee: [00:51:45] It's a wild story and you sent me on a little bit of a rabbit hole, which is fun. Just, looking at Ruth Ann, McCune's. historical piece that there were 10 different Chinese American men in the Civil War, but he was exceptional because he rose to such high ranks. And I just think it's so interesting that, in the 1880 census, he registered as Chinese. But then after the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882, he listed his race as Japanese in the 1890 census. but he was racialized as white so that he could buy property and everything. Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit about that, like talk about code switching? He like literally changed his race,    Andrea Wang: [00:52:26] right. And people at that time could not tell the difference. Similar to now, people often can't tell different Asian, ethnicities apart. Right. I found actual newspaper articles where Joseph Pierce was interviewed about the battles, that the United States was having with Japan or the battles that Japan was having. He was asked his opinion on what the Japanese government was doing because he told these reporters he was Japanese and that was really the only clue that I had that he, Was code switching that after the Chinese exclusion Act was passed, he felt like he needed to protect himself and his family and he must have cut off his cue because otherwise, you know, that would've identified him immediately as Chinese. So that went into the book. I think it's a powerful moment, right, where he's doing what he has to do to survive and ensure his protection and his family's safety,   Miko Lee: [00:53:25] You have a, a really interesting background. Just having No really, I mean, having done all these different things and I, you know, I think you have a science background too, right? Can you talk about the times that we're living in right now, the political times that we're living in, where our government is banning books that don't align with certain conservative ideologies, where right now certain words are forbodden suddenly. And can you talk a little bit about how that impacts you as a children's book author?    Andrea Wang: [00:53:59] it is very disheartening and discouraging that the current climate is against, people who look like me or other people of color. And as a children's book author, we are experiencing a huge decrease in the number of teachers and librarians who are asking us to come and visit schools, to talk to students, which is horrible because. These young people are the ones who need to learn from books, right? Knowledge is power. And if we are not keeping them informed, then we are doing them a disservice. I think the attacks on our freedom to read are really unjust. and. personally as an author of color, I understand that books like Worthy may end up on some of these banned book lists because it does talk about racism. but these are the stories that we need now, and I'm going to continue writing these stories about the Hidden History, And to talk about these difficult subjects that I think kids understand on some level. but if they're not reading about it in books, then it's hard to spark a conversation with, educators or adults about it. So I think these books that I'm writing, that many of my friends and other children's book authors are writing are providing that. Sort of gateway to talk about, the topics that are so important right now.    Miko Lee: [00:55:29] Thank you so much for sharing, and thank you so much for being on Apex Express today. We appreciate your voice and the work that you're putting out there in the world. Is there anything else you'd like to say?   Andrea Wang: [00:55:39] you know, there's so much to say, I think just to. Stand up for what we all believe in and to, I encourage people to stand up for their intellectual freedom and that of their children.   Miko Lee: [00:55:56] Thank you, Andrea Wang. I appreciate hearing from you and hearing your voice and seeing your work out there in the world.    Andrea Wang: [00:56:03] Thank you so much, Miko. It was a pleasure.   Miko Lee: [00:56:05] Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We thank all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.   The post APEX Express – 5.29.25 AAPI Children's Books appeared first on KPFA.

Kiera is joined by Mark Rasmussen, CEO of Moolah, to talk about the landscape of credit card fees and how to reduce them, membership discount plans, and other bonus features offered by the dental payment tech company. (Pssst, Mark was last on episode 866, It's Time to Modernize Payment Processing!) Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am super jazzed because I have a guest here who's going to help us with cashflow leaks, modernizing your practice, figuring out those membership plans, all the things that you need and want. We're going to talk about some case studies. This is one of my absolute favorite guests, Mark Rasmussen, CEO, owner, founder, Moolah. How are you today, Mark? Welcome to the show.   Mark Rasmussen (00:22) Hey, Kara, I'm doing fantastic. I'm doing awesome. So, so, so it's connected with you and your listeners and excited to get into all this juicy good stuff about revenue and payments and modernizing things. Let's do it. I love it.   Kiera Dent (00:31) Yeah.   Let's   do it. So I have a slight crush on Moolah. Like truly you guys like just make credit card processing easy. And so what I want to start off, if you guys don't listen, Mark and I have done other podcasts in the past together. ⁓ But I don't know, Mark, what you guys say on your email subject lines, like on your little, what is it your signature, but I feel like it should be like your new favorite credit card processing company. Like that's what I feel like Moolah's tagline should be because I wanted to do a couple case studies with you since we last chatted.   Mark Rasmussen (00:40) Hahaha   Kiera Dent (01:05) ⁓ Mark knows, like, I do have a crush on Moolah. I try to get them to come and be our processor too.   Mark Rasmussen (01:10) I need to like soundbite clip that,   like I have a crush on Moolah just like everywhere in social. I love that.   Kiera Dent (01:15) I   do. do because I like companies that make things easy, but also are like the cheapest on the market and credit card fees are one of my biggest beefs. Like really truly I get annoyed when I look to see how much credit card fees are charging. And when you guys, ⁓ deadly team listeners, just so you know, I'm going to throw it out there. Like anybody who goes through our link literally saves 10 basis points. ⁓   on it, which is huge to get anywhere in the credit card industry. So you're getting below that 2.99. So you're getting 2.89 on cards not present and 2.39. And I hope that Mark, I'm allowed to say that because I'm just going to be bold and brazen. And if not, we'll cut that out. So don't stress about that.   Mark Rasmussen (01:52) No, no, no, for sure. And   not only that, it's like, that's not just a like teaser rate, like they look, your practices will get that preferred rate forever, right, which is awesome. And, and it's like you and I were talking a little bit earlier, too, of like, a bit of shock and awe of like, I and myself as well, I've been seeing like some statements from potential practices. And I'm like, ⁓ my God, I'm like, I'm seeing like,   Kiera Dent (02:03) which is so big and you don't add extra heat.   Mark Rasmussen (02:19) six, seven, eight percent, like net effective rates. I know you were saying you have been seeing even higher. It's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. It's almost criminal.   Kiera Dent (02:25) Mm-hmm. Yeah, so it   does feel criminal because like here's the thing like you might get a cheaper rate somewhere else but when you look and dig into the details and this is where it feels annoying and obnoxious to me and doesn't happen right away it happens like when you've stopped looking at it you're like I've checked my credit card company for years they don't do anything and then all of a sudden it starts creeping up and being eerie and that's where I just get annoyed and that's why like I have a crush on Moolah because you guys don't do it and you guys stay consistent for it so   I felt Mark and I, you didn't listen to our last podcast, we'll definitely link it in the show notes for you. But Mark, I felt we should kick today off with some case studies because I have some clients that I've recommended over to Moolah. And I think my favorite one is we were looking and I had a practice and our overhead was high. So like this practice, they don't love to like look at numbers. They have an amazing CPA. Like I will say we do look at numbers, but they're kind of like, yeah, carry it. We'll just like out produce our problems a little bit. And that's fine. Like anybody can have that. But I said, Hey,   Mark Rasmussen (03:17) Alright.   Kiera Dent (03:21) Your credit card fees are really high. think that they were honestly like 10%. And I'm like, is that really true? Like that just seems outlandish. And they said, well, Kiera, we're in a contract. Mark, do you want to throw up with contracts? Tell me about credit card contracts.   Mark Rasmussen (03:33) Oh, I hate contracts. I hate contracts   like really in anything in my life. I don't know. So yeah, but that's, it's just crazy. The industry for the longest time has like felt the need to like lock these business owners and not just Dennis, but business owners in like these typically it's like three year contracts. And then, you know, they'll have like termination fees. And so they take advantage of that. And like you were saying, I talked to so many practices are like, Oh, I'm paying X and you know, they were paying X the first month that they signed up.   And then they didn't look at it, like you said, and then six months later, eight months later, the processor started like nudging it up, nudging it up, nudging it up. And to the point where when you look at what their rates are, you know, two years from when they signed up, it's like almost 180 degrees difference. So yeah, please you guys out there, please make sure you stay on your credit card processing. Look at those month end statements. Look at, you know, what is being nudged up because   Kiera Dent (04:19) Yeah.   Mark Rasmussen (04:28) You know, they'll just slip it in a little statement message. They're not forthcoming about it. I promise you they're not like, shooting you multiple emails or calling you and be like, hey, we're going to increase your rate. No, no, no, no, no. They're going to slip it under the table and hope that you never pay attention to it, which is really what happens because you guys are all busy. You guys are all doing amazing care on patients and you're not paying attention to that. That's the reality.   Kiera Dent (04:49) And it's creepy to me because it's also done on things that don't make sense. Like I feel like reading a credit card statement with what they're charging is like reading very highly processed foods. And I'm like, I have no clue what 90 % of these words are. And I feel like it's the same thing when you come to a credit card statement. And so back to this practice, what we did, there's two case studies I wanted to bring to the table today that are my own personal clients that I've referred over to Moolah that I signed up with Moolah. So this practice, again, overhead, let's out produce our problems.   Mark Rasmussen (05:00) That's a good comparison, I like that.   Kiera Dent (05:18) And it was wild because the first month they switched to Moolah, their CPA sent a letter to all of us and said like, hey, what'd you do? Did you switch credit card companies? Your fees are so much lower. Like that fast first month drop down. So we went from about a 10 % fee on what they're producing and collecting to then dropping it down to this 2.89 to 2.39, depending upon if card was present or not, which is super awesome also because then you can get cards.   Mark Rasmussen (05:28) guys.   Kiera Dent (05:44) on auto renew, like on just processing internally and you don't have to, like you can have cards present or not present within the practice, which is so awesome. ⁓ But I was shocked like that fast. And then another practice that we brought to Moolah, they were locked in with another credit card company. And so I didn't know you couldn't do this, Mark. So this was like rookie mistake on me. Like I was, I'm scrappy and I thought, well, okay, fine. You guys are in a contract. So.   just stop processing through that processor, switch everything over to Moolah. Well, you know this Mark and I was rookie so you know what happens. Do you know what happens with those companies?   Mark Rasmussen (06:21) No,   listen, I said that a lot too because technically, really, if the practice is in a contract, and I've said that before, you probably have these miscellaneous junk fees, these monthly minimums that are gonna hit maybe 20, $30 a month. But even if you're paying that minimum and you saved thousands over here, who cares? Pay that minimum, just write that contract out. What happened here in this scenario? Okay.   Kiera Dent (06:44) That was exactly what I said too. So   that's what, cause I was like, why not? I thought the exact same thing. I'm like, okay, if we're looking at, you're able to save 3%, 4 % like higher amounts and we're processing, even if you're processing a hundred thousand or 200,000, like that extra two, 3 % do the math. Like that's surely going to offset the cost. Well, what happened is we actually did that. So a client signed up with you guys. They did that. And we got a letter from the other processor saying,   Mark Rasmussen (06:54) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (07:11) that, we have a minimum and if we don't hit it, it was going to be substantial and to get out of contract, it was going to cost us a thousand dollars. So we literally said, fine, take the thousand dollars because we'd already saved that much through Moolah's savings to be able to like, we're just like, like it's a done deal. Like they were trying to threaten them with this thousand dollar fee, but we were like, that's so minimal to get us out of this contract based on how much we were saving. Now this practice was processing a decent chunk.   Mark Rasmussen (07:32) Right. Right.   Kiera Dent (07:38) But I think even if you're processing like 70,000, 80,000, that one, 2 % stacks up. Like it's insane how much we pay in credit card fees. So those are like the two that I wanted to bring to the, like I said, this is why I have a crush because I hate credit card fees so much. And that's going to lead into our next topic. But Mark, anything you want to add? Cause these were two cases that I've watched since we last met.   Mark Rasmussen (07:45) yeah.   I love that.   Kiera Dent (08:00) ⁓ I'm constantly on the prowl for cheaper people. I love that you guys don't charge for the terminals. You have it set up the next day. There's no contracts. Like that's where I said, like it's your new favorite, like credit card processing. You don't increase the fees. You give our clients reduced rates. If you have multi locations, you guys also take care of those practices. Like it's amazing what you guys do. So that's my like pitch for Moolah, but if you want to add anything else.   Mark Rasmussen (08:22) I love that. wanted to, because you just   like rang a memory. So what you were referring to in that practice, right, where like, okay, you can't just skate by and just pay the minimum, right? Or they were gonna hit him with his fee. Well, another thing I'm gonna tell your listeners out there is, listen, if you don't go with Moolah, great, do your homework. But one thing to look out that I've seen in contracts, which is crazy, is that sometimes you'll see a contract, all right, if you cancel early, it's like a 350 termination fee. Okay, fine.   but I've seen others out there where the processor says they try to enforce liquidated damages. So the processor will say, oh, we've been making, you're in a three year contract, on average we're making like, whatever, $500 a month on your processing. If you leave us now, it's not early termination fee, we're gonna calculate that $500 for the remaining 16, 17 months and they hit you with this liquidated damages thing, crazy. So just be on the lookout for that. If you're doing anywhere that's a contract,   Kiera Dent (08:57) No.   Mark Rasmussen (09:20) Look out for liquidated damages, that's no bueno, but better yet, find somebody that's just not gonna put you in a contract. Much easier.   Kiera Dent (09:26) Yeah. And   also like, okay, Mark, help me understand. And maybe you don't know because you guys don't do this and that's okay. But to me, it feels really funny that I signed a contract with them and there's got to be something in the fine print because I'm like, how did they go from what they told me to being able to add all these extra surcharges later on and increase it when we're in a contract?   Mark Rasmussen (09:43) for sure it's in the fine print.   yeah. It says that any, it basically says that any time at our discretion with 30 days notice, we can make an adjustment to any of your pre-schedule. And so they'll just do that. And then they'll just put a little message, you know, really small font in whatever kind of notification. And you know, in their minds, right? All right, well, we checked off the box. It's super shady. It sucks, but it's, you know, it's out there. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (10:05) Yeah, it is what it is. And I would say   they'll like look at it because two clients that were in contract, we were able to send over every person that I've sent to you guys have just loved who you are, that it's easy, that it's fast, that it's the cheapest processing. And there's a few other features that I think we should talk about. I feel like I'm on like a Moolah sales pitch right now. Like I'm truly not. I just get giddy. Like if you guys hear me talk about Swell,   Mark Rasmussen (10:27) Ha   Kiera Dent (10:30) was Zeke and Google reviews. I have a crush on Swell. They just do Google reviews better than anyone else. And right now, Moolah for sure, you guys are taking the cake on being able to do credit card processing better than any other company that I've come across, which I think is amazing. And so something else that I think is ratcheting fees on practices when we're looking for some of these cashflow leaks is on membership plans. Now, I'm a huge proponent of membership plans. I also think with the economy, with where insurance is reimbursing, ⁓ people are starting to look at like   should we be going out of network? And my big proposal is, hey, yeah, of course, if you want to do that rock on, membership plans really can help with that. But ⁓ there are some membership companies that actually charge pretty outlandish fees. I never wanted to pay for that. I was scrappy in a practice. So what I did is I just charged the patient an annual fee. Well, that was like eight years ago that I was charging an annual fee. And I think you look at today's world, no one wants an annual fee anymore. They just want like a monthly fee and they want it to be low.   Mark Rasmussen (11:02) for   Right. Right.   Kiera Dent (11:28) But managing that is nonsense on my own paying for it. And Moolah, like I've heard through the grapevine, you guys are doing something with membership fees. Can we talk about the membership plans? Talk about how you guys do this. Is it easier? Is it something we can do? Because I think membership plans have to come into play with the insurance situation that offices are in. And also possibly a cash leak if you're paying for heavy management fees on your membership plans.   Mark Rasmussen (11:37) Yeah, yeah, absolutely.   Yeah. So listen, membership discount plans. I've since I've been, I've only been in the industry, you know, dental industry for about four years now. And every year I feel like it's getting traction. More practices are asking about us. I have practices that are doing demos with us and they're like, Hey, I'm doing this demo is driving it because I heard you guys do, you know, membership, discount plan management. And so yes, the answer is we do. ⁓   And as you were looking to, there's a lot of great vendors in this space that just do that, right? And I'm not going to name any names, but there's a lot of great vendors, but they're not inexpensive. Like, you know, there's some decent SAS fees and then you pay per patient enrollment. ⁓ And so when it's, you know, when you look at the net net and you're like, okay, is this really making sense? So what's nice is that we have complete membership discount plan management built into the platform. You can create all your plans. ⁓ You can easily onboard the patient into the system.   Kiera Dent (12:21) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Mark Rasmussen (12:48) whether the patient wants to go monthly or annual, like you said, you were doing annual and a lot of the practices that I run into have historically been doing it annually, right? Because to think about billing it on a monthly basis has you like pulling your hair out. But the reality is that the patients and the consumers in the world that we live in, ⁓ everybody looks at whatever they're gonna bring into their life, whether it's a Netflix subscription or it's a car payment or it's anything else, everybody kind of looks at at a monthly basis.   Kiera Dent (13:02) Too hard.   Mark Rasmussen (13:17) And so that is what you want to be delivering. And so with the Moolah platform, you can absolutely manage an in-house membership discount plan and offer both annual and monthly options and truly set it and forget it. Not have to think about it. The system's going to run. The system's going to automatically post that payment into the ledger. In open dental, we even go a step further where when you enroll the patient into the membership, not only are we handling the billing element of it,   But we're also going into the PMS and we're associating that patient to that membership discount plan and keeping track. You know, that's what's really doing all the heavy lifting of keeping track of whatever the one free cleaning of the 10 % off services. And we keep that in lockstep. So if there was like a billing issue, we automatically disassociate the patient from the plan to really just kind of make it pain free. you know, membership discount plans are phenomenal. It's a win win for patients and practice. First of all, it brings some really great reoccurring   Kiera Dent (13:51) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Mark Rasmussen (14:14) like trackable revenue into the practice, right? Number two, it's bringing patients like butts in seats ⁓ as well. ⁓ Because the patient looks like, I'm paying $40 a month. I should use it. I should be in there. ⁓ And it's bringing value to the patient. So it's literally just a win-win all around. I really love that for, you know, when you're looking at out of network patients ⁓ and the absolutely, you know, the platform has it built in. So you guys, please, if you're looking at discount plans, memberships,   I encourage you to look at some of the other great vendors out there and then come take a look at us last and see like the value that you get that's included.   Kiera Dent (14:49) That's awesome. Yeah. And again, like there are so many great people out there that are doing it. I just feel, ⁓ when I heard that you guys were doing membership plans, I was like, well, it kind of makes sense because you're already processing credit cards. Like you're already doing the processing. So now something else that is doing a processing is in my processor, into my software, which I just, that was so incredibly clever. And, ⁓ like again, I had another client who, who scoped you against other companies and they were like, gosh, like there's no fees.   Mark Rasmussen (15:03) Great.   Kiera Dent (15:17) compared to other companies with moolah. So that was something I was really excited about. I'm big on just, it's like my insurance. I've been with State Farm forever. And Jason and I giggled, we're like, we need to go and actually like assess and make sure that we're truly getting the best plans. And so I just think like it's good to periodically go and assess and make sure our credit card fees, what they were when we set up.   our membership plans making sense? Is it time to look to possibly renegotiate some certain things? And again, I'm not here to propose one company over another. Like Mark said, do your homework, figure out what's best because there's so many great companies out there. I just really love when it's simple and easy. And that's something I love about you guys, Mark, you guys have the fact that we can send patient statements and like have payments online and they can pay it all times of the day. Like just that alone boosts offices, collections with Moulin. So Mark, I want to go into a dicey topic with you though.   because this one's hot. We had it in our in-person ⁓ doctor and leadership mastermind when we were in Arizona and I loved it. It was like a hot, hot topic and heads up like this might be awkward for you. I don't think it will because of who you are, but there's the question of, and it was hot, like the room was split of people who were pro and con. So the question is with credit card fees being as much as they were, we talked about at the beginning, like ways that we can reduce it.   Mark Rasmussen (16:10) Let's do it.   I know, I wanna hear what the feedback was, because I know where you're going.   Kiera Dent (16:40) Then we talked about reducing membership plans. Now there's a question of, should we actually charge patients the credit card fees? Like this is becoming really popular and I don't blame businesses because inflation's high, labor is higher. So now we're trying to figure out like where could we cut? And so people are like, well, sweet, we're just gonna pass on the credit card fees to our patients. And the room was spicy. There was like people that were so pro and people that like literally people were bristly and it was a...   Mark Rasmussen (17:05) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (17:06) It was quite interesting. So your credit card company, which is where I feel like it's a little awkward to ask you this question, but I want to know, we pro, are we con? Should we charge the patients from your perspective? We're in 2025. So many companies do this. Should people be charging patients the credit card fee? Should they just raise their fees and bake it in? Like, what are your thoughts on this? Because my room was 50 50 split. And I will tell you some of the feedback if you want to hear it, cause it was quite interesting.   Mark Rasmussen (17:13) Yeah.   Okay, okay.   I do. Okay, so the first   thing I want to point out is I expect you to say that the room is split, right? Like half of them are like, yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm not paying for my patients' reward points. And I think the other half of the room was like, yeah, but I'm worried about the optics. Does it look like we're trying to be cheesy or nickel and diming our patients, right? Those are the two ends that are battling each other. The interesting thing is that this hot topic, ⁓ if you would have asked that just three years ago,   Kiera Dent (17:38) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm. No.   Mark Rasmussen (18:01) it wouldn't have been 50 50. It   would have been like 80 90 % saying no way and 10 % made me do it. So the trend is is like it is going right and two or three years from now I have a feeling it's going to be like 80 % are doing it and 20 % are not doing it. So the cat is out of the bag. Let's just get that you know right out there in the open. What do I think about it? I'm to be super Switzerland about this and I'm going to say that I think   Kiera Dent (18:06) Agreed. 100 % agree.   I would agree with you.   Remember he's   a credit card processing company.   Mark Rasmussen (18:31) Well,   no, I'm going to say that I think that as a vendor who delivers credit card processing service, I think that I should enable our practices to make that choice for themselves. I think whatever you think you should do for your practice, I want to support it. So if you don't want to do surcharging, great, we love that. If you do want to do surcharging, great, I love that. I just want to give the tools to the practice so they can make that decision. Now, aside what I think about it,   It's a very interesting topic to talk about. Well, what is the net result? I like, all right, how does it work? What does it save? Let's get into it if I may. Okay, so there's a couple ways. There is absolutely there. There is, and there's a couple flavors to this. There's a couple flavors to this. ⁓ there, the, the, what that we do, let me talk about that first. So what we do is what's referred to as compliance surcharging and with compliance surcharging, what is, what you're doing is that   Kiera Dent (19:06) I agree. Cause like, are there rules around it? Like, you actually have to do anything? Okay. I have no idea. Okay.   Mark Rasmussen (19:28) When a customer's paying you with a credit card, the system, system, I'll just speak to our system, most others are similar, but when a patient is paying you, whether it's in practice on the device or whether you sent a text to pay or it's an online payment, our system automatically, real time, looks at the number that the patient put in or used on the terminal. And within a half a second, we're looking back at the credit card network before we even charge it, and we say, is this a credit or is this a debit? If the patient is paying with a credit card,   We then pop on the screen, either on their mobile device or on the terminal, we say, hey, we see you're using a credit card. We're going to add 2.99 % as a fee to you for using a credit card. If you want to use a debit card, you will avoid that fee. So in Compliance Surcharging, what I really like about that is that you're not charging us fee across debit and credit, right? You're still giving your patient the convenience of being able to pay with plastic.   Kiera Dent (20:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Mark Rasmussen (20:25) and still use a debit card because the reality is if you have a credit card in your wallet, there's probably 99 % chance you've got a Visa debit card in your wallet as well. And so you're not pulling away that convenience of them being able to pay plastic and just saying, hey, if you want to avoid that fee, pay cash or check. That's kind of archaic. So with compliance surcharging, you are going to offload your credit card fees to the patient, only the credit card fees. When they pay with a debit card, you will still pay for that, okay?   Kiera Dent (20:43) I agree.   Mark Rasmussen (20:55) With doing that with Moolah, if you're going to pay the debit fee and not pay the credit card fee, we see that the overall net effective rate for the practice ends up being below 1%. It ends up being like, I'm going to throw out a weird term that people are going, what the heck is that? It's usually going to be around 75 or 80 basis points. About three quarters of 1 % is going to be your net overall cost, which is huge savings, right? Huge savings.   Kiera Dent (21:07) No.   Crazy, like insane. Just do   some math. If you did a million dollars and you were able to basically save, gosh, so much.   Mark Rasmussen (21:28) No, let's just say,   the reality is you're probably saving one and a half percent. So on a million dollar practice, that practice is gonna put about $15,000 back to their bottom line. Like, and that's it, and it was painless. And you're still not really, yeah, exactly.   Kiera Dent (21:37) Exactly.   And that's also for payments you're already collecting. Like this is already   money we're collecting, we just get to keep more of it rather than having the credit card processing fee.   Mark Rasmussen (21:47) Yes.   And it doesn't need to like, you know, break brain cells for you to try and figure it out. Like the system is going to automatically calculate it. We're going to organize it. ⁓ It's just, it's painless. We're handling it in the PMS correctly. listen, the savings cannot be ignored. Like we talked about the cats out of the bag. You're going to see more businesses across more different verticals. ⁓ And the reality is   We've all been around it for a long, long time, right? Who's been doing it forever? Gas stations, right? We've seen it on there. Cash credit, right? That's been there forever. And we're all used to it. And you also typically see a lot when you're dealing with like state or federal agencies, you ever gone on and make an online tax payment, they usually charge a fee there. So it's just now getting more, you know, ⁓ rolling out. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (22:40) Nail salons for the girls out there. We all know the   nail salons. They'll say like, it's a 3 % charge if you use credit card. I'm like, here's your cash. Like it's clever. They push us to what they want.   Mark Rasmussen (22:49) Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.   So it is listen. So I, I believe in delivering the technology to our clients, I don't have an opinion one way or the other, whatever you feel is good. I will tell you though that I think a lot of practices, especially on the on the one half of the room that are like against it. I think what we're finding is that people are not pushing back as much as   you think they are because consumers are just getting used to it. And again, the fact that at least with our practices, you're still giving your patient the ability to have that convenience and pay with a debit card and not have the fee. If they were doing like the model where they call it, know, cash discount, where you're going to hit the debit card and you're going to hit the credit card, I think you get more pushback on that, but you're still giving that convenience. So yeah, I'm a fan of it. We get, like I said, more and more requests of it. ⁓   It's not going anywhere. yeah, we're here to support your practice. If you guys want to try it out, try it out and listen, here's the thing.   Kiera Dent (23:50) Yeah.   How does it work in practice   though? Like, so someone's standing in front of me at a terminal, I'm collecting money in person. How does this work? Because it's not gonna pop up on my like treatment plan that I just gave them or on my ledger. So how do I do that?   Mark Rasmussen (24:00) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.   It'll pop up on the terminal.   so first thing we do, we give the practices, ⁓ you know, some template messaging and they'll just want to put up something by the front desk. And it says something to the effect of that, you know, this office adds a surcharge when using a credit card, ⁓ not beyond, you know, what our costs are, right? This is not a money, additional money revenue is trying to like, you know, make arbitrage between costs and no, I'm only going to pass off. And so.   Kiera Dent (24:32) Great.   Mark Rasmussen (24:35) the patient is aware of it, they've seen it, and then when they go to use it on the terminal, if they're in practice, when they go to run the credit card, it will pop up on the screen and your team can just show it to the patient, they'll see it, that it's adding it because they're using the credit card. And it'll give them an option if they want to accept it or if they want to back out of it and try again with a debit card and avoid the fee, really easy.   Kiera Dent (24:58) Okay, that's actually really helpful. And now I have a question because I don't know this. How does this work? Because technically the practice is collecting more money, right? Like we are taking the fee plus the credit card fee. ⁓   Mark Rasmussen (25:10) Let's say it's $100 and let's just say we're   adding that surcharge so now it's $103. Okay? Yeah. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (25:14) Right, so that's $3 more per $100 transaction. But   does that impact them in tax? I would think no, because credit card companies still charging us the 3%. Like, how does this work? Are you following what I'm saying? how does this impact you?   Mark Rasmussen (25:26) Yeah, I do. So you   don't have anything else to like, you know, break your brain on that. Our system, first of all, will break out the surcharge in the reporting. Okay. So it's really clean. Furthermore, the addition, the $103, right, like the customer got charged, the patient got charged $103. But our system automatically calculates it, that you have a fee of 3 % and that you surcharge the patient 3%. So the practice is still just going to get the full $100.   Kiera Dent (25:36) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Mark Rasmussen (25:56) It's as if they took a cash payment. So it's easy for them. They're not getting 10.99 at the $103, so to speak. It's just still truly only taking $100, which is great.   Kiera Dent (25:57) Gotcha. Okay.   Mm-hmm. ⁓   Yeah, because that's what   I was curious like, and like some things have sales tax. So didn't know like surcharges, do they get taxed differently or is it just like accepting cash, same thing for a practice? Okay. Now, so that's really helpful. And that helps me see on the ledger. So are you guys synced into the PMS for it to say, because like if my ledger says a hundred dollars, but I'm now doing 3 % surcharge on it.   Mark Rasmussen (26:18) Exactly, total amount, total amount, yeah.   Yes.   Kiera Dent (26:35) I'm going to be posting $103. How do I make sure that all of my ledgers match up?   Mark Rasmussen (26:40) So   we'll post $100 in the ledger, okay? And then we'll have a procedure code for the surcharge. And then we'll also have an offsetting so that it doesn't mess up your balance. So you can easily run reports based on the procedure code. I can see what my surcharge is, but it's not messing up and showing that, I took in $103 on this $100 transaction. So your ledger is gonna stay nice and clean.   and not be a nightmare, 100%.   Kiera Dent (27:10) Okay,   because that's I was like, Oh, great. Because there was another office that I heard about. And Mark, I'm just curious about your opinion on this. And then we're gonna get back to this like spicy and thanks for walking through this. There was another practice, I've literally never heard of this before. So I'm curious if you have or if you recommend or don't this practice. So let's say a patient, the total is $100, they pay the $100, the practice literally posted on the ledger.   Mark Rasmussen (27:28) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (27:38) instead of being $100 because now they lost $3, they posted $97 on the ledger and they were taking out the surcharge. Have you ever heard of that? Because I had never heard it. I was, do you recommend that? Because I've never recommended that, right? And I think as a patient, I'd feel really angry though. no, I gave you 100 bucks, but you gave me 97. Like I would just.   Mark Rasmussen (27:48) I haven't.   That seems wonky. Yeah.   Right. Or   continue that on. How about now all of a sudden a week later you go to refund it and we're we're refunding you 97. You're like, no, no, no, I paid you 100. It's gonna be messed up in so many levels.   Kiera Dent (28:09) Right. I was just curious.   I was like, I mean, maybe I'm archaic on how I do this. I used to just do it that way and then accept that that would just be a cost on my PNL. But now there's a way for you to actually offset it with the process. So my question is going back to that, that's actually helpful. Thank you. So if you're doing that, definitely recommend not doing that anymore. ⁓ But I was like, Hey, I've never heard of this. Maybe that is the right way to do the accounting on it. But it felt very messy to me. Now,   Do we as the practice need to put in the surcharge as that procedure code when we're charging that out or does Moolah automatically sync it in and put the surcharge of the procedure code?   Mark Rasmussen (28:48) We have, yeah,   automatically done. There's nothing for you to do. Yeah. So during onboarding, we will set up, we will work with the practice, obviously. We'll make sure that we have a procedure code set up for them. And so during the onboarding, we'll have that so that when you do run a surcharge transaction like that, there's nothing you need to do. It'll all be handled in the ledger correctly.   Kiera Dent (28:51) Amazing. I love it. This is why I said I have a preference on you.   and you're in all softwares. What softwares does Moolah sink into?   Mark Rasmussen (29:10) Yes, so ⁓ Open Dental, ⁓ Dentrix, G7, and ⁓ newer server-based, not Ascend. And we're actually going to be ⁓ releasing, finally, this has been a long time coming, we're finally going live with Eagle Soft ⁓ Beta at end of next week. So Open Dental, Dentrix, and Eagle Soft. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (29:28) Awesome.   That's awesome. Okay, very cool. And   then if you're not in one of those and you can just obviously add this in, it wouldn't be automatically synced. And I think like of those ones though, huge win this way. Okay, now we'll go back to the spicy. I will tell you guys how the room was divided. The room was divided, I'll be right. The do it, don't do it. And then the like, there's a middle ground, which I thought the middle ground was kind of convenient. ⁓ There wasn't, but I did see people like it. I did feel like it was like,   Mark Rasmussen (29:45) Yes.   Was there any physical fighting going on? Okay.   Kiera Dent (30:00) like politics and religion status. Like it was like very cut through the room. I do agree with you. And that's what I said. I was like, you guys, this 2025, this is going to take place in the future and it will be very common. just, think our early adopters going to stay or not. It's your choice. Um, I've always been of the opinion like, no, just bake it into your fee. And now I'm like, well, everybody's starting to charge for it. Like, why not? Um, so it was don't charge for it now. Another was like, no, put it in. People are doing it anyway. And the middle ground, which I thought was   Mark Rasmussen (30:02) Right. Right, right, right.   Kiera Dent (30:30) of a good way to do it is in person. They didn't charge a fee, but any of their online statements, they did charge a fee because they said most people who pay online know there's usually a service fee associated with it. So I thought that was kind of a, an easy way. If you guys are looking for a navigation through it. ⁓ but I think like, honestly, it's just like anything else, train your patients if you want to, but don't feel like you have to, I think it'd just be something to consider. So, but again,   Like get the reduction, like if nothing else, like switch to a processor that's going to be reduced fees anyway. So even if you want to continue offering it, you're still saving on that. Mark, I have one last thing that I wanted to dive into. I'm hearing from a lot of like integrated softwares. So like dental Intel and Flex and some of these other ones that literally make practice lives easier. They're having processors in there that are just integrated right into that. They're using it all the time.   Mark Rasmussen (31:20) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (31:25) How does Moolah play in those worlds? Like, do you get the same pricing? Do we not get the same pricing? Are some of those better because they're already bundled in? Again, I'm putting you on like really awkward topics, but I just want to know. I want to know how does this work.   Mark Rasmussen (31:35) No, no, not at all. So listen, you mentioned Flex. We   love Flex, okay? I love Flex, not just because, yes, they're a partner of ours, right? And yes, your Mool account works beautifully and integrated with Flex. But I love Flex just because I think they're like cut from the same cloth that we are. Like we just, at the end of the day, we want to over-deliver, right? We want to over-deliver, whether it's technology, whether it's value, and they have that mindset. And so I love the Flex team. Full disclosure.   ⁓ And so we've been an integrated partner with Flex for, gosh now, I think three years. So yeah, I think they deliver a ton of value to any open dental practice. So anybody out there for sure should check out Flex. They are amazing. Dental Intel. So we used to be, ⁓ not to bore the audience, but like we used to have an integration with Modento and then Dental Intel acquired Modento.   Kiera Dent (32:33) Yep.   Mark Rasmussen (32:33) and   then Dental Intel wanted to roll up their own integrated credit card processing. And so they have now. so, listen, ⁓ we wish Dental Intel the best, wish them well, but yeah, we're no longer integrated with Dental Intel, but yeah, Flex, we love Flex.   Kiera Dent (32:49) Okay, because I was just curious. Now, I feel if it's bundled, is this a time where offices should just be strategic? I'm not saying anyone's doing it. I haven't looked at it. So I'm not here to like cast judge or I just want to make sure offices are being smart. I would think when they're bundled or they're integrated, offices should still check even using MULA. They should still be watching their credit card statements every single month, right? Like no matter what, just to always make sure things are staying clean and also before we sign up with anybody.   Mark Rasmussen (33:08) Mm-hmm.   100%.   Kiera Dent (33:19) Like literally read the fine print and look for it. Yes. No. I from like, let's just go all the way back.   Mark Rasmussen (33:23) Yeah.   And I would always say that, you know, let's just take the Flex example. Flex has, you and I won't name anything, I'll let you guys out there, you go check it out to yourself, but there are three options. I encourage you, especially when we're talking about a vendor that you're looking at, and especially when this vendor that you're looking at revolves around your cashflow, right? Like it's a pretty integral part of a vendor that you're bringing into your ecosystem. call them, talk to them.   Kiera Dent (33:46) Mm-hmm.   Mark Rasmussen (33:54) Call in the middle of the day. Do they pick up the phone? Do they answer? Can you talk to somebody very easily? Like really pop the hood and take a look at who you're going to get in and do business with, especially when it's, you know, that vendor is like controlling your cash flow on a daily basis. So yes, please you guys out there, do your homework, look at the agreements, ask questions, and see what's right for you. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (34:10) Yeah.   That's awesome. just, again,   I wanted to like go into it because these are things I'm hearing. I'm hearing people say like, this seamlessly integrates. I know you seamlessly integrate. I know you guys are constantly working to refine, to get into more and more practice management softwares to make it easier. Just Mark, as we wrap up, like this has been fun. I love the like, thanks for going into some of the spices with me. ⁓ But just as a quick rundown, like what are some of the features that Moola does? We talked about the membership plans. We did talk about that Dental A Team clients get 10 % basis points less for card present or card not present.   Mark Rasmussen (34:33) Always is.   Yep.   Kiera Dent (34:47) Which to me that alone, I would just look into it and see, like I said, two clients literally saved money by like dumping their contracts and moving over, which I think to me, like before I can have a crush on a company, I test them pretty heavily. So to see the proof in the pudding, I was so just elated and it made me even like you guys more. But what else does Moola do? Because I know you guys do a lot of other things that just make life easy.   Mark Rasmussen (35:05) I love that. yeah, yeah. So   at the end of the day, we do a lot, but it's all payment related and will always be payment related, right? So we're focused on being like, we try to be like the end all be all payment solution for dentists. And so when you look at like, what does a dental office need from a payment perspective, ⁓ it's in practice payments, right? So we provide you guys the physical devices. So   No more having to buy rent or lease those terminals. We're going to include them. you know, not only, yeah, they're wireless. Yeah, they're really cool. Aesthetically, they look really good. Yeah. And, and here's the other great part too, that I think it's kind of underrated ⁓ is of course, not only did we include them. the practice didn't need to buy them, but like normally, you know, with our peers, you have to buy these devices and then you buy them and then it's like one year warranty, right? And then like Murphy's law always kicks in.   Kiera Dent (35:37) They're awesome too. They're portable. They can go back to the hygiene operatories. It's amazing. So your hygienist can take it. Like they're awesome. It's so great.   Mark Rasmussen (36:01) like it loves to do. like, okay, month 14, the device just, you know, went out on you. And then you're gonna sorry, you got to buy another five $600 device with mula you guys will literally never have hardware expense ever because we give them to you on the front end. And we will warranty them forever. As long as you're with us. I don't care four or five, six years. If there's new devices that come out and your guys age out, we're going to replace them. Even if you drop it off the counter and crack the screen.   We don't care, we're gonna replace it for you. There's no fear or premium. So, in practice payments, we have you covered there from a technology standpoint as well as a hardware standpoint. Moving on, there's also, have the ability to, like you were talking about earlier, store patient cards securely tokenized. Nothing's ever touching the practices servers. It's all on our servers, but it's giving you the convenience of having those stored cards for the patient. You can have as many stored cards as you want. You can even send a request to the patient.   before their appointment and the patient from easily from home from their mobile device could add their credit card. And so when they come in, it's already stored and it's available to use. So stored cards, yeah, yeah, yeah.   Kiera Dent (37:07) With that, can I ask, do you guys have   the compliance paperwork? Is there anything you have to do to get a patient to have a stored credit card that we can run for future payments? once insurance pays, because I know that's a big thing of storing cards on file, do you have anything with that? Because I know that this is a zone.   Mark Rasmussen (37:23) Yep. What I...   Yeah, no. So it's very obvious as far as the process of the patient adding the card. Like when you send the message, it says, hey, would you like to securely store your card on file? Right? Beyond that, what I've seen some practices do is just they'll just include it in their overall like new patient intake forms and kind of include it in their terms of service of that. Hey, listen, if you want to store a card on file with us, you can. And you allow, once you store a card, you're giving us the authorization to utilize that card.   Kiera Dent (37:35) Mm-hmm.   Mark Rasmussen (37:51) for other future balances. As simple as that, that's all you need to do.   Kiera Dent (37:54) which is so smart you   guys think about it. This is where so many other industries do this. They have a card on file. I mean, I go to the spa, my cards on file, they run that card when I'm gone, like I authorize it to happen. So they never out of money. They're never chasing money down. Like it just to me makes so much more sense of a way to process.   Mark Rasmussen (38:12) Can you imagine if   Netflix or all the other subscriptions, if they had to wait for a payment every month and wait, come on, no. Subscription is the way, 100%. So, okay, so store card on file they get. The other thing they get is the ability to create and manage in-house payment plans. And of course, automatically post those payments to the ledger. We have some great things where if the payment fails, right? They're into the plan for three months and all of sudden the July payment fails.   Kiera Dent (38:18) No. No.   Yeah.   Mark Rasmussen (38:41) our system will automatically notify the practice, notify the patient, and what's cool is that the software will allow the patient to self-administer and fix it. So the software is not telling the patient, your card failed, call the front desk. No, we're gonna save a phone call there. The software will allow the patient to tell the software, okay, either A, try to charge that card again, or B, they can actually upload a new card on file.   So the cool stat on that is that in failed transactions in our payment plans, we see patients solving it between themselves and software within the first 24 hours at a rate of over 80%, which is huge. So payment plans, and then we talked about earlier, you also get the ability to manage any of your in-house membership or discount plans. ⁓ We have the collecting on a balance when the patient is out of practice, ⁓ sending a payment request either   Kiera Dent (39:20) Holy cow, it's amazing.   Mark Rasmussen (39:37) allocated or unallocated payment request can attach a statement. ⁓ We also have the ability to host a payment page on their website. So if you want to put a little navigation, click here to make an online after hours payment, we'll host that page for the practice. ⁓ So yeah, we really kind of just looked at it a full circle of like, where are all the payment touch points that our practice is dealing with, and just trying to deliver these really amazing tools. And again, as you know, our model.   ⁓ There's never any monthly fees. There's never any set up fees. There's never any annual fees ⁓ All there are these two simple flat rates and again, you can cancel it anytime you want never locked in anything   Kiera Dent (40:18) That's awesome. Mark, I appreciate this so much. How do people, like know they just connect with you, schedule a demo. You guys will look at their credit card processing, see how you guys can fix it. How do they connect with you specifically if they're interested? And specifically The Dental A Team, The Dental A Team, perks.   Mark Rasmussen (40:33) I would recommend and maybe we can list this in the podcast, but there will be a specific Moolah URL. It's like forward slash The Dental A Team They should go there and then they can schedule a demo. And then if they go there, then we're going to know it came from you guys. That way we can get them that 10 basis point savings forever. So just schedule a demo with us and no pressure. We're like the most like   the least salesy organization I think that you guys will ever run into. All we wanna do is inform you. We wanna show you what we have. We're not for everybody. ⁓ But assuming that you guys love what you see, we encourage you to try us out and check us out and see if we're gonna be a great fit for your practice.   Kiera Dent (41:13) Yeah, for sure. You guys, honestly, I love Moolah They're incredible. So on our website, we will link it. So the way you get to Moolah, it's on our website, TheDentalATeam.com. And then you can click on the About Partnerships Mulas right there. ⁓ And the actual, like if you guys want our direct link here, it would be TheDentalATeam.com slash partnerships slash Moolah. And that should take you right to Moolah's page. It's also mula.cc slash partners.   So that helps you guys will also link that in the show notes mark. I appreciate you guys so much Things are being on the podcast things are going through the spicy with me. I appreciate you so much   Mark Rasmussen (41:52) Any time, love you guys, you guys are the best and ⁓ have a great rest of day.   Kiera Dent (41:58) Hey, you too, for all of you listening. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on The Dental A Team Podcast.  

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, we kick off by reflecting on a recent trip to the UK, where London's unexpected warmth mirrored the friendliness of its black cab drivers. Our visit coincided with the successful launch of the 10 Times program in Mayfair, which attracted participants from various countries, adding a rich diversity to the event. Next, we delve into the advancements in AI technology, particularly those related to Google Flow. We discuss how this technology is democratizing creative tools, making it easier to create films and lifelike interactions. This sparks a conversation about the broader implications of AI, including its potential to transform industries like real estate through AI-driven personas and tools that enhance market operations. We then shift our focus to the political arena, where we explore the Democratic Party's attempt to create their own media influencers to match figures like Joe Rogan. The discussion centers on the challenges of capturing consumer attention in a world overflowing with digital content, and the need for meaningful messaging that resonates with everyday life. Finally, we touch on aging, longevity, and productivity. We emphasize the importance of staying engaged and productive as we age, inspired by remarkable individuals achieving significant milestones beyond 60. SHOW HIGHLIGHTS In our recent trip to the UK, we experienced the unexpected warmth of London and engaged with the local culture, which included charming interactions with black cab drivers. This atmosphere set the tone for a successful event launch in Mayfair with global participants. We discussed the sparse historical records left by past civilizations, such as the Vikings, and how this impacts our understanding of history, drawing a parallel to the rich experiences of our recent travels. AI advancements, particularly Google Flow, are revolutionizing the creative landscape by democratizing filmmaking tools, allowing for lifelike scenes and interactions to be created easily and affordably. The potential of AI in the real estate market was explored, using the example of Lily Madden, an AI-driven persona in Portugal, which highlights the challenge of consumer attention in an ever-saturated digital content environment. We analyzed the Democratic Party's approach to media influencers in the 2024 election, noting the need for genuine engagement with voters' lives amidst fierce competition for attention in today's media landscape. The discussion shifted to aging and longevity, focusing on productivity and engagement in later years. We emphasized the importance of remaining active and contributing meaningfully past the age of 60. We wrapped up the episode with excitement about future projects, including a new workshop and book, highlighting our commitment to staying creatively engaged and inviting listeners to join us in future discussions. Links: WelcomeToCloudlandia.com StrategicCoach.com DeanJackson.com ListingAgentLifestyle.com TRANSCRIPT (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors) Dean: Mr sullivan it has to be recorded because it's uh historic thinking it's historic thinking in a historic time things cannot be historic if they're not recorded, that is true, it's like if, uh, yeah, if a tree falls in the forest yeah, it's a real. Dan: It's a real problem with what happened here in the Americas, because the people who were here over thousands of years didn't have recordings. Dean: They didn't write it down. They didn't write it down. Dan: No recordings, I mean they chipped things. Dean: They didn't write it down. Dan: They didn't write it down no recordings, no recordings. Yeah, I mean, they chip things into rock, but it's, you know, it's not a great process really. Dean: I think that's funny, you know, because that's always been the joke that Christopher Columbus, you know, discovered America in 1492. But meanwhile they've been here. There have been people, the sneaky Vikings, and stuff. How do you explain that in the Spaniards? Dan: Yep. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Yeah Well, writing. You know, writing was an important thing. Dean: Yeah, yeah. Dan: We don't know much. We don't, yeah, we really don't know much about the Vikings either, because they didn't they weren't all that great at taking notes. I mean, all the Vikings put together don't equal your journals. Dean: That's true. All the Viking lore's the not what's happening. So it's been a few weeks yeah I was in the uk, we were in the uk for a couple weekends for uh-huh okay, it was great, wonderful weather, I mean we had the very unusual. Dan: It was great, wonderful weather. Dean: I mean we had the very unusual weather for May. It was, you know, unseasonably warm 75, 80, nice bright oh my goodness. Dan: Yeah, really terrific. And boy is the city packed. London is just packed. Dean: And getting packed dirt, huh. Dan: Yeah, yeah, just so many people on the street. Dean: I always, I always laugh, because one time I was there in June which is typically when I go, and it was. It was very funny because I'd gotten a black cab and just making conversation with the driver and he said so how long are you here? And I said I'm here for a week. He said, oh, for the whole summer, because it was beautifully warm here for the whole summer. Yeah, that's so funny, I hear hear it's not quite. Dan: They're fun to talk to. Dean: Oh man for sure. Dan: Yeah, they know so much. Dean: Yes, I hear Toronto. Not quite that warm yet, but get in there I think today is predicted to be the crossover day we had just a miserable week. Dan: It was nonstop rain for five days. Oh my goodness, Not huge downpour, but just continual, you know, just continual raining. Dean: But it speeded up the greening process because I used to have the impression that there was a day in late May, maybe today like the 25th, when between last evening and this morning, the city workers would put all the leaves on the trees like yesterday there were no leaves, and but actually there were. Dan: We're very green right now because of all the rain. Dean: Oh, that's great yeah. Two weeks I'll be there in. I arrived 17th. Dan: Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of the date I'm actually arriving. Dean: I'm arriving on the 6th A strategic coach, you're going to be here, yeah we're doing on Tuesday. This month is Strategic Coach. Dan: Yeah, because of fathers. Dean: Right, right, right right, so we're doing. Yeah, so that Tuesday, that's exciting. Dan: Tuesday, Wednesday, Of course, our week is 19th, 18th, I think it's the 17th 17th is the workshop day and we have a garden party the night before and the day I know we have two parties. Dean: Yeah, I love I can't go wrong yeah and hopefully we'll have our table 10 on the. Uh well, we'll do it at the one, we'll do it at the one, that's great. You've been introduced to the lobster spoons. I hear. Dan: It's been good, that's a great little spot. I didn't overdo it, but I did have my two. I had two lobster spoons Okay, they're perfect. Dean: I took one of my teams there about uh, six weeks ago, and we, everybody got two we got two lobster spoons and it was good, yeah, but the food was great service with service was great. Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah all right. Dean: Well then, we got something I'm excited about. That's great. So any, uh, anything notable from your trip across the pond no, uh, we um jump things up um. Dan: Last October we introduced the 10 times program in London so uh 25 to 30. I think we have 25 to 30 now and uh, so when I was there um last two weeks, it'll be, um, um two weeks or last week no, it was last week. Um, I'm just trying to get my, I'm just trying to get my bearings straight here. When did I get home? I think I got home just this past Tuesday. Dean: This past Tuesday. Dan: So it would have been the previous Thursday. I had a morning session and afternoon session, and in the morning it was just for 10 times and in the afternoon it was just for 10 times and in the afternoon it was for everybody. So we had about 30 in the morning and we had about 120 in the afternoon. Dean: Oh, very nice yeah. Dan: And you know a lot of different places. We had Finland, estonia, romania, dubai, South Africa quite a mix. Quite a mix of people from. You know all sorts of places and you know great getting together great. You know couple of tools. You know fairly new tools A couple of tools, you know fairly new tools and you know good food good hotel, it's the Barclay, which is in. Mayfair. Okay, and it's a nice hotel, very nice hotel. This is the third year in a row that we've been there and you know we sort of stretched their capacity. Dean: 120 is about the upper limit and what they've been to the the new four seasons at uh, trinity square, at tower bridge. It's beautiful, really, really nice, like one of my favorites no, because the building is iconic. I mean Just because the building is iconic. I mean that's one of the great things about the. Dan: Four Seasons. Dean: Yeah, and about London in specific, but I mean that. Four Seasons at. Dan: Trinity it's beautiful, stunning, love it. Yeah, we had an enjoyable play going week um we did four, four, four musicals, actually four, four different. Uh, musicals we were there one not good at all probably one of the worst musicals I've seen um and uh, but the other three really terrific. And boy, the talent in that city is great. You know just sheer talent. Dean: What's the latest on your Personality? Yeah, personality. Dan: Yeah, the problem is that London's a hot spot right now and there's a queue for people who want to have plays there. Oh okay, Actually they have more theaters than Broadway does Is that right On the West End yeah, west End, but they're all lined up. Problem is it's not a problem, it's just a reality is that you have some plays that go for a decade. You know, like Les Mis has been in the same theater now for 20 years. So there's these perennials that just never move. And then there's hot competition for the other theaters, you know I wonder is Hamilton? Dean: there, I don't think so, I just wonder about that actually, whether it was a big hit in the UK or whether it's too close. Dan: Yeah, I'm not entirely sure why it was a great play in the United States. I went to see it, you know. I mean it bears no historical similarity to what the person actually was. Dean: No. Dan: So you know, I mean, if people are getting their history from going to that play, they don't have much history. Dean: That's funny, yeah, and I'm not a rap. Dan: I'm not a fan of rap, so it's not the oh God. I'm not the target, definitely not the target audience for that particular play. But we saw a really terrific one and. I have to say, in my entire lifetime this may have been one of the best presentations, all told. You know talent, plot, everything. It's cook. It's the curious case of Benjamin Button button, which is okay. Yeah, I've seen the movie which you. You probably saw the movie. Dean: I did. Dan: Yeah, and this is Fitzgerald. It's Fitzgerald. Dean: Yes. Dan: And it is just a remarkable, remarkable presentation. They have about, I would say, 15 actors and they're literally on stage for the entire two and a half hours. And they are literally on stage for the entire two and a half hours and they are the music. So every actor can sing, every actor can dance and every actor can play at least one musical instrument. And they have 30 original songs and then you know the plot. And they pull off the plot quite convincingly with the same actors, starting off at age 70, and he more or less ends up at around age 25, and then they very ingeniously tell the rest of the story. And very gripping, very gripping very moving and very gripping, very gripping very moving, beautiful voices done in. Sort of the style of music is sort of Irish. You know it takes place in Cornwall, which is very close to you know, just across the Irish Sea from Ireland. So it's that kind of music. It's sort of Irish folk music and you know it's sort of violins and flutes and guitars and that sort of thing, but just a beautifully, beautifully done presentation. On its way to New York, I suspect, so you might get a chance to see it there. Dean: Oh wow, that's where it originated, in London. Dan: No, yeah, it's just been. It was voted the number one new musical in London for this year, for 2025. Yeah, but I didn't know what to expect, you know, and I hadn't seen the movie, I knew the plot, I knew somebody's born, old and gets younger. Yeah, just incredibly done. And then there's another one, not quite so gripping. It's called Operation Mincemeat. Do you know the story? Dean: No, I do not. Dan: Yeah, it's a true story, has to do with the Second World War and it's one of those devious plots that the British put together during the Second World War, where to this was probably 1940, 42, 43, when the British had largely defeated the Germans in North Africa, the next step was for them to come across the Mediterranean and invade Europe, the British and Americans. And the question was was it going to be Sicily or was it going to be the island of Sardinia? And so, through a very clever play of Sardinia, and so, through a very clever play, a deception, the British more or less convinced the Germans that it was going to be Sardinia, when in fact it was going to be Sicily. And the way they did this is they got a dead body, a corpse, and dressed him off in a submarine off the coast of spain. The body, floated to shore, was picked up by the spanish police, who were in cahoots, more or less, with the germans, and they gave it to the germans. And the Germans examined everything and sent the message to Berlin, to Hitler, that the invasion was gonna be in Sardinia, and they moved their troops to Sardinia to block it. and the invasion of Sicily was very fast and very successful, but an interesting story. But it's done as a musical with five actors playing 85 different parts. Oh my yeah. Dean: Wow, 85 parts. Dan: Yeah. Dean: It sounds like. Dan: I thought, you were describing Weekend at Bernie's Could be. Dean: Could be if I had seen it If I had seen it. It was funny? Dan: Yeah, it's kind of like Weekend at Bernie's right, right, right, I don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I know you are. And three of them were women who took a lot of male parts, but very, very good comic comic actors, and three of them were women who took a lot of male parts, but very, very good comic actors. It's done in sort of a musical comedy, which is interesting given the subject matter. And then I saw a re-revival of the play Oliver about Oliver Twist, a re-revival of the play Oliver about Oliver Twist and just a sumptuous big musical. Big, you know, big stage, big cast, big music, everything like you know Dickens was a good writer. Dean: Yes, um, dan, have you? Dan? Did you see or hear anything about the new Google Flow release that just came out two or three days ago? I have not. I've been amazed at how fast people adopt these things and how clearly this is going to unlock a new level of advancement in AI. Here thing kind of reminded me of how Steve Jobs used to do the product announcement. You know presentations where you'd be on stage of the big screen and then the. It was such an iconic thing when he released the iPhone into the world and you look back now at what a historically pivotal moment that was. And now you look at what just happened with flow from a prompt. So you say what you describe, what the scene is, and it makes it with what looked like real people having real dialogue, real interactions. And so there's examples of people at a car show talking like being interviewed about their thoughts about the new cars and the whole background. Dan, all the cars are there in the conference. You know the big conference setting with people milling around the background noises of being at a car show. The guy with the microphone interviewing people about their thoughts about the new car, interviewing people about their thoughts about the new car. There's other examples of, you know, college kids out on spring break, you know, talking to doing man-on-the-street interviews with other college kids. Or there's a stand-up comedian doing a stand-up routine in what looks like a comedy club. And I mean these things, dan, you would have no idea that these are not real humans and it's just like the convergence of all of those things like that have been slowly getting better and better in terms of like picture, um, you know, pick, image creation and sound, uh, syncing and all of that things and movies, getting it all together, uh, into one thing. And there, within 48 hours of it being released, someone had released a short feature, a short film, 13 minutes, about the moment that they flipped the switch on color television, and it was like I forget who the, the two, uh in the historic footage, who the people were where they pushed the button and then all of a sudden it switched to color, um broadcasting. But the premise of the story is that they pushed the button and everything turned to color, except the second guy in the thing. He was like it didn't turn him to color and it was. He became worldwide known as the colorless man and the whole story would just unfolded as kind of like a mini documentary and the whole thing was created by one guy, uh in since it was released and it cost about 600 in tokens to create the the whole thing and they were uh in the comments and uh, things are the the description like to create that, whatever that was, would have cost between three to $500,000 to create in tradition, using traditional filmmaking. It would have cost three to 500,000 to create that filmmaking it would have cost three to 500,000 to create that. And you just realize now, dan, that the words like the, the, the um, creativity now is real, like the capability, is what Peter Diamandis would call democratized right. It's democratized, it's at the final pinnacle of it, and you can only imagine what that's going to be like in a year from now, or two years from now, with refinement and all of this stuff. And so I just start to see now how this the generative creative AI I see almost you know two paths on it is the generative creative side of it, the research and compilation or assimilation of information side of AI. And then what people are talking about what we're hearing now is kind of agentic AI, where it's like the agents, where where AIs will do things for you right, like you can train an AI to do a particular job, and you just realize we are really like on the cusp of something I mean like we've never seen. I mean like we've never seen. I just think that's a very interesting it's a very interesting thought right now, you know, of just seeing what is going to be the. You know the vision applied to that capability. You know what is going to be the big unlock for that, and I think that people I can see it already that a lot of people are definitely going down the how path with AI stuff, of learning how to do it. How do I prompt, how do I use these tools, how do I do this, and I've already I've firmly made a decision to I'm not going to spend a minute on learning how to do those things. I think it's going to be much more useful to take a step back and think about what could these be used for. You know what's the best, what's the best way to apply this capability, because there's going to be, you know, there's going to be a lot of people who know how to use these tools, and I really like your idea of keeping Well, what would you use it for? Well, I think what's going to be a better application is like so one of the examples, dan, that they showed was somebody created like a 80s sitcom where they created the whole thing. I mean, imagine if you could create even they had one that was kind of like all in the family, or you know, or uh imagine you could create an entire sitcom environment with a cast of characters and their ai uh actors who can deliver the lines and, you know, do whatever. You could feed a script to them, or it could even write the script I think that what would be more powerful is to think. I I think spending my time observing and thinking about what would be the best application of these things like ideas coming. Dan: I think that somebody's going no no, I'm asking the question specifically. What would you, dean jackson, do with it? That's what. That's what I'm saying oh not what? Not what anybody could do with it, but what? Dean: would you? Dan: do with it um well, I haven't. Dean: I haven't well for one let's let's say using it. I, years ago, I had this thought that as soon as AI was coming and you'd see some of the 11 labs and the HN and you'd see all these video avatars, I had the thought that I wonder what would happen. Could I take an AI and turn this AI into the top real estate agent in a market, even though she doesn't exist? And I went this is something I would have definitely used. I could have used AI Charlotte to help me do, but at the time I used GetMagic. Do you remember Magic, the task service where you could just ask Magic to do? Dan: something, and it was real humans, right. Dean: So I gave magic a task to look up the top 100 female names from the 90s and the top 100 surnames and then to look for interesting combinations that are, you know, three or four syllables maximum and com available so that I could create this persona, one of the ones that I thought, okay, how could I turn Lily Madden Home Services into? How would you use Lily Madden in that way? So I see all of the tools in place right now. So I see all of the tools in place right now. There was an AI realtor in Portugal that did $100 million in generate $100 million in real estate sales. Now that's gross sales volume. That would be about you know, two or $3 million in in revenue. Yeah, commissions for the thing. But you start to see that because it's just data. You know the combinations of all of these things to be able to create. What I saw on the examples of yesterday was a news desk type of news anchor type of thing, with the screen in the background reporting news stories, and I immediately had that was my vision of what Lily Madden could do with all of the homes that have come on the market in Winter Haven, for instance, every day doing a video report of those, and so you start to see setting up. All these things are almost like you know. If you know what I say complications, do you know what? Those are? The little you know? All those magical kind of mechanical things where the marble goes this way and then it drops into the bucket and that lowers it down into the water, which displaces it and causes that to roll over, to this amazing things. I see all these tools as a way to, in combination, create this magical thing. I know how to generate leads for people who are looking for homes in Winter Haven. I know how to automatically set up text and email, and now you can even do AI calling to these people to set them on an email that every single day updates them with all the new homes that come on the market. Does a weekly, you know video. I mean, it's just pretty amazing how you could do that and duplicate that in you know many, many markets. That would be a scale ready algorithm. That's. Dan: That's one thought that I've had with it yeah, you know the the thing that i'm'm thinking here is you know, I've had a lot of conversations with Peter over Peter Diamandis over the years and I said you know, everything really comes down to competition, though. Dean: Everything really comes down to competition though. Dan: The main issue of competition is people's attention, the one thing that's absolutely limited. Everybody talks everything's expanding, but the one thing that's not expanding and can't expand is actually the amount of attention that people have for looking at things you know, engaging with new things. So for example. You asked me the question was I aware of this new thing from Google? From Google and right off the bat, I wouldn't be because I'm not interested in anything that Google does. Period, period, so I wouldn't see it. But I would have no need for this new thing. So this new thing, because what am I going to do with it? Dean: I mean, I don't know. But I recall that that was kind of your take on zoom in two months. Dan: Yeah but, uh. But if the cove, if covet had not happened, I would still not be using zoom yeah, yeah, because there was nobody. There was nobody at the other end that's exactly right. Dean: You didn't have a question that Zoom was the answer to. Dan: Yeah. And I think that that's the thing right now is we don't have a question that the new Google Flow Because this seems to me to be competition with something that already exists, in the sense that there are people who are creating, as you say, $500,000 versions of this and this can be done for $600. Dean: Well, in that particular field, now I can see there's going to be some fierce competition where there will be a few people who take advantage of this and are creating new things advantage of this and are creating new things, and probably a lot of people are put out of work, but not I. I what is so like? Dan: uh, you know, no, and it's not it's not based on their skill and it's it's on their base. There's no increase in the number of amount of attention in the world to look at these things. Dean: There's no increase there's no increase of attention. Yes, the world to look at these things. Dan: There's no increase. There's no increase of attention. Dean: Yes, which it's so eerily funny, but in my journal last night, after watching a lot of this stuff, I like to look at the edges of this and my thought exactly was that this is going to increase by multiples the amount of content that is created. But if I looked at it, that the maximum allowable or available attention for one person is, at the maximum, 16 hours a day, if you add 100% of their available attention bandwidth, you could get 1, 1000 minutes or 100 of those jacksonian units everybody that we only have those. We only have 110 minute units and we're competing. We're competing against the greatest creators ever Like we're creating. We're competing against the people who are making the tippy top shows on Netflix and the tippy top shows on any of these streaming things. I don't think that it's, I think, the novelty of it to everybody's. It's in the wow moment right now that I think everybody's seeing wow, I can't believe you could do this. And it's funny to look at the comments because everybody's commenting oh, this is the end of Hollywood, hollywood's over. I don't think so. Dan: Hollywood's been kind of over for the last five or ten years. I mean it's very interesting. I think this is a related topic. I'm just going to bounce it off you. The Democratic Party has decided that they have to create their own Joe Rogan, because they now feel that Joe Rogan as a person, but also, as you know, a kind of reality out in the communication world tipped the election in 2024. Dean: Who have they nominated? Dan: Yeah, that Trump being on Joe Rogan and a few other big influencers was the reason, and so they're pouring billions of dollars now into creating their own Joe Rogans. But the truth of it is they had a Joe Rogan. He was called Joe Rogan and he was a Democrat. Dean: Yeah, and he was a Democrat. Dan: Yeah, so you got to work out the problem. Why did Joe Rogan Democrat become Joe Rogan Republican is really the real issue question. And they were saying they're going to put an enormous amount of money into influencers because they feel that they have a fundamental messaging problem. Dean: Look how that worked out for them, with Kamala I mean they had all the A-listers. Dan: Well, they had $2 billion I mean Trump spent maybe a quarter of that and they had all the A-listers. They had Oprah. They had, you know, they had just Beyonce, they just had everybody and it didn't make any difference. So I was thinking about it. They think they have a messaging problem. They actually have an existential problem because nobody can nobody can figure out why the democratic party should even exist. This is the fundamental issue why, why, why should a party like this even exist? Dean: I I can't I? Dan: I don't know, I mean, can you answer the question? I can't answer the question I really don't know why this party actually exists. So it's a more fundamental problem to get people's attention. They have no connection, I think, with how the majority of people who show up and vote are actually going about life, are actually going about life. So you have these new mediums of communication and I'm using Google Flow as an example but do you actually have anything to communicate? Dean: Right, it all definitely comes down to the idea. It's capability and ability. I think that that's where we get into the capability column in the VCR formula. That capability is one thing is why I've always said that idea is the most valuable, you know? Dan: um, yeah, because you know, execution of a better idea, a capability paired with a better ability, is going to create a better result but if it's just a way of selling something that people were resisting buying and they were resisting buying in the first place have you really? Dean: made it. Dan: Have you really made a breakthrough? Dean: Have you really made a breakthrough? That was my next journey in my journal was after I realized that. Okay, first of all, everybody is competing for the same 1,000 minutes available each day per human for attention each day per human for attention, and they can't you know, do you can't use all of that time for consuming content there has to be. They're using, you know, eight hours of it for, uh, for working, and you know four hours of it for all the stuff around that, and it's probably, you know, three or four hours a day of available attention. Dan: Boy, that would be a lot. Dean: I think you're right, like I think that's the thing. I'm just assuming that's the, you know, that's the. Well, when you, you know, in the 50s, Dan, what was the? I mean that was kind of the. There was much less competition for attention in the 50s in terms of much less available, right, like you look at, I was thinking that's the people you know, getting up in the morning, having their breakfast, getting to work, coming home, having their dinner and everybody sitting down watching TV for a few hours a night. That's. That seems like that was the american dream, right? Or they were going bowling or going, uh, you know it was the american habit yeah, that's what I meant. That that's it exactly, exactly. The norm, but now, that wasn't there were three channels. Yeah, and now the norm is that people are walking around with their iPhones constantly attached to drip content all day. Dan: Well, I don't know, because I've never Not. Dean: you drip content, all well. Dan: Well, I don't know, because I've never not you and I have never. I've never actually done that, so I don't actually, I don't actually know what, what people are do, I do know that they're doing it because I can? I can observe that when I'm in any situation that I'm watching people doing something that I would never do. In other words, I can be waiting for a plane to leave, I'm in the departure lounge and I'm watching, just watching people. I would say 80 or 90 percent of the people. I'm watching are looking at their phones, yeah, but. Dean: I'm not, but I'm not yes, yes, I'm actually. Dan: I'm actually watching them and uh, wondering what are they? Doing why? Dean: no. Dan: I'm. I'm wondering why they're doing what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, for example, I never watch the movie when I'm on an airplane, but I notice a lot of people watching the screen. Yeah, so, and you know, if anything, I've got my Kindle and I'm reading my latest novel. Yes, that's basically what I'm doing now, so so, you know, I think we're on a fundamental theme here is that we talk about the constant multiplication of new means to do something. Constant multiplication of new means to do something, but the only value of that is that you've got someone's attention. Yes, and my thing, my thinking, is that google flow will only increase the competition for getting yes, attention, attention that nobody, nobody's getting anyway. Dean: That's exactly right, that's it. And then my next thought is to what end? Dan: Well, they're out competing some other means. Dean: In other words, there's probably an entire industry of creating video content that has just been created, too, based on this new capability. I so I just think, man, these whole, I think that you know, I'm just, I'm just going. Dan: I'm just going ahead a year and we just got on our podcast and it'll be you. It won't be me. Dan did you see what such and such company just brought out? And I'll tell you, no, I didn't. And they say this is the thing that puts the thing I was talking about a year ago completely out of. Dean: Isn't that funny, that's what I'm seeing. It probably was a year ago that we had the conversation about Charlotte. Dan: Well, no, it was about six months ago. I think it was six months ago. Dean: Maybe yeah. Dan: But we were talking about Notebook, we were talking about Google. Dean: Notebook. Dan: I had one of my team members do it for me three or four times and then I found that the two people talking it just wasn't that interesting. It really didn't do it so I stopped't want to be dismissive here and I don't want to be there but what if this new thing actually isn't really new because it hasn't expanded the amount of tension that's available on the planet? Dean: biggest thing you have to, the biggest thing that you have to increase for something to be really new is actually to increase the amount of human attention that there is on the planet, and I don't know how you do that because, right, it seems to be limited yeah, well, I guess I mean you know, one path would be making it so that there it takes less time to do the things that they're spending their time other than it seems to me, the only person who's got a handle on this right now is Donald Trump. Dan: Donald seems to have a greater capacity to get everybody's attention than anyone anyone in my lifetime. Mm-hmm, yeah, he seems to have. Dean: I mean you look at literally like what and the polarizing attention that he gets. Like certainly you'd have to say he doesn't care one way or the other. Dan: He doesn't really care love or love, love or hate. He's kind of got your attention yeah one thing that I'm. He's got Canada's attention yeah. Dean: I mean really. Dan: That and $7 will get you a latte today getting. Canada's attention. Dean: It won't get you an. Americano, but it'll get you a Canadiano, okay. Dan: Yeah, it's so funny because I just I've created a new form and. I do it with perplexity it's called a perplexity search and give you a little background to this. For the last almost 20, 25 years 24, I think it is I've had a discussion group here in Toronto. Dean: It's about a dozen people. Right. Dan: And and every quarter we send in articles and then we create an article book, usually 35, 40 articles, which is really interesting, and it's sort of the articles sort of represent a 90 to 180 day sense of what's going on in the world. You know, you kind of get a sense from the articles what was going on in the world and increasingly, especially since AI came out. I said, you know, these articles aren't very meaty. They don't know it's one person's opinion about something or one person's. You know, they've got it almost like a rant that they put into words about some issues so what I? resorted to is doing perplexity search where, for example, I have one that I've submitted. This was the week when we had to submit our articles and we'll be talking about them in July, the second week of July. So they have to be formatted, they have to be printed. July, so they have to be formatted, they have to be printed, they have to be the book has to be put together and the book has to be sent out. Usually, everybody has about four weeks to read 35 articles. So my articles I have four articles this time and they all took the form, and one of them was 10 reasons why American consumers will always like their gas-fueled cars. Okay, and there were 10 reasons. And then I say, with each of the reasons, give me three bullet point, statistical proof of why this is true. And it comes out to about five pages, and then I have it write an introduction and a conclusion. This is a format that I've created with Propoxy. It takes me about an hour to start, to finish, to do the whole thing, and I read this and I said this is really, really good, this is really good. You know this is very meaty, you know it's got. You know it's just all fact, fact, fact, fact, fact, and it's all put together and it's organized. So I don't know what the response is going to be, because this is the first time I did it, but I'll never get an article from the New York Times or an article from the Wall Street Journal again and submit it, because my research is just incredibly better than their research, you know. And so my sense is that, when it comes to this new AI thing, people who are really good at something are going to get better at something, and that's the only change that's going to take place, and the people who are not good at something are going to become it's going to become more and more revealed of how not good they are. Yeah, yeah, like the schmucks are going to look schmuckier, the schmuckification of America and you can really see this because it's now the passion of the news media in the United States to prove how badly they were taken in by the Biden White House, that basically he, basically he wasn't president for the last four years, for the last four years there were a bunch of aides who had access to the pen, the automatic pen where you could sign things, and now they're in a race of competition how brutally and badly they were taken in by the White House staff during the last four years. But I said, yeah, but you know, nobody was ever seduced who wasn't looking for sex. You were looking to be deceived. Yeah, you know, all you're telling us is what easily bribe-able jerks you actually are right now, and so I think we're. You know. I'm taking this all back to the start of this conversation, where you introduced me to Google Flow. Yeah, and I'll be talking to Mike Koenigs in you know a few days, and I'm sure Mike is on to this and he will have Mike, if there's anybody in our life who will have done something with this. Dean: it's Mike Koenigs that's exactly right. Dan: You're absolutely right. Dean: Yeah. Dan: Mike will have three or four presentations using this. Yes, but the big thing I come down to. What do you have that is worth someone else's attention to pay attention to? Do you have something to communicate? Dean: Do you have something to communicate that? And my sense is it can only be worth their time if it's good for them to pay attention to you for a few minutes. You're exactly right, that is an ability. Do you have the ability to get somebody's attention? Because the capability to create that, content is going to be. Dan: There's's going to be only a few people at the tippy top that have well, that's not going to be the issue that's not going to be the issue that's not going to be the issue, that's the how is taken care of. Yes, that's exactly it. The question is the why? Dean: yes, I put it, you were saying the same thing. I think that that it's the what I just said, the why and the what. Why are we? What? To what end are we doing this? And then, what is it that's going to capture somebody's attention? Uh, for this, and I think that that's yeah, I mean, it's pretty amazing to be able to see this all unfold. Dan: Hmm. Dean: You know, yeah, yeah. But there's always going to be a requirement for thinking about your thinking and the people who think about their thinking. I think that people this is what I see as a big problem is that people are seeing AI as a surrogate for thinking that oh what a relief I don't have to think anymore. Dan: Yeah. Dean: I saw a meme that said your Gen Z doctors are cheating their way through medical school using chat GPT. Probably time to start eating your vegetables, it's probably time to start living healthily. Exactly yes. Dan: It's very interesting. I was interviewed two or three days ago by New Yorker magazine actually. Dean: Really Wow. Dan: Fairly, and it was on longevity. Dean: OK, because you're on the leaderboard right. Dan: The longevity, yeah, and, and they had interviewed Peter Diamandis and they said you ought to talk to Ann Sullivan, nice guy, the interviewer. I said the biggest issue about, first of all, we're up against a barrier that I don't see any progress with, and that is that our cells reproduce about 50 times. That seems to be built in and that most takes us to about 120,. You know, and there's been very few. We only have evidence of one person who got to 120, 121, 122, a woman in France, and she died about 10 years ago. I do think that there can be an increase in the usefulness of 120 years. In other words, I think that I think there's going to be progress in people just deciding well, I got 120 years and I'm going to use them as profitably as I can, and I said that's kind of where I that's kind of where I am right now and, uh, I said, uh, I have this thing called one 56, but the purpose of the one 56 is so that I don't, um, uh, misuse my time right now. Right, that's really, that's really the reason for it. And I said you know, at 81, I'm doing good. I'm as ambitious as I've ever been. I'm as energetically productive as I've ever been. That's pretty good. That's pretty good because when I look around me, I don't see that being true for too many other people and see that being true for too many other people. It was really, really interesting, I said, if we could get half the American population to be more productive from years 60 to 100, a 40-year period. I said it would change the world. It would totally change the world. So I said the question is do you have actually anything to be usefully engaged with once you get to about 60 years old? Do you have something that's even bigger and better than anything you've done before? And I said you know, and my sense is that medicine and science and technology is really supporting you if you're interested in doing that. But whether it's going to extend our lifetime much beyond what's possible right now. I said I don't think we're anywhere near that. Dean: I don't either. Yeah, I think you look at that, but I think you hit it on the head. That of the people who are the centenarians, the people who make it past a hundred. They're typically, they're just hung on. They made it past there but they haven't really had anything productive going on in their life for a long time since 85 years old, very rare to see somebody. Uh, yeah, you know, I mean you think about Charlie Bunger, you know, died at 99. And you look at, norman Lear made it to 101. And George Burns to 100. But you can count on one hand the people who are over 80 that are producing. Yeah, you're in a rare group. Where do you stand on the leaderboard right now? Dan: I was number 12 out of 3,000. That was about four months ago. Dean: That was about four months ago. Dan: I only get the information because David Hasse sends it to me. My numbers were the same. In other words, it's based on your rate of aging. Dean: That's what the number is when I was number one. Dan: the number, was this, and my number is still the same number. And when I was number one, the number was this and my number is still the same number. It just means that I've been out-competed by 11 others, including the person who's paying for the whole thing, brian Johnson. But you know useful information, yeah. Dean: But you know useful information. Dan: Yeah, you know and you know. But the big thing is I'm excited about the next workshop we're doing this quarter. I'm excited about the next book we're writing for this quarter. So so I've always got projects to be excited about. Dean: I love it All righty, I love it Alrighty. Okay, dan, that was a fun discussion. I'll be back next week, me too. I'll see you right here. 1:03:42 - Dan: Yeah, me too. Awesome See you there. Okay, bye, bye,

Welcome back to the 236th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 236th episode we bring you a Duet Review of Genrefuck – a double-bill of two solo shows, Reina by Augusto Bitter & Never Walk Alone by Julie Phan – presented by Buddies in Bad Times Theatre. Join Jillian Robinson and Ryan Borochovitz, as they discuss brand mascots, pole dancing, and what happens when you throw blenders at the wall to see if they stick. Genrefuck is playing at Buddies in Bad Times Theatre (12 Alexander Street, Toronto, ON) until May 31st, 2025. Tickets can be purchased from the following link: https://buddiesinbadtimes.com/show/genrefuck/ This review contains many SPOILERS for Genrefuck, and the two shows contained therein, WITHOUT our customary separation between spoiler and non-spoiler sections. If you intend to see the production, proceed at your own risk. Follow our panelists: Jillian Robinson – Instagram: @jillian.robinson96 Ryan Borochovitz – [Just send all that love to CoH instead; he won't mind!]; if you enjoy his theatre thoughts, more can be found at https://nextmag.ca/search/borochovitz Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com

Welcome back to the 235th episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 235th episode we bring you a Duet Review of Tales of an Urban Indian, written by Darrell Dennis, directed by Herbie Barnes, presented in its latest iteration by Talk is Free Theatre. Join Jillian Robinson and Ryan Borochovitz, as they discuss Nolan Moberly's dynamic performance, being powerless to one's environment, and how everybody has a tale to tell.Tales of an Urban Indian is playing at Hope United Church (2550 Danforth Ave, Toronto, ON) until May 31st, 2025. Tickets can be purchased from the following link: https://www.tift.ca/shows/tales-of-an-urban-indian CONTENT WARNING: Tales of an Urban Indian contains themes of alcohol and drug abuse, suicide, homophobia, and discrimination against Indigenous people; this review, likewise, speaks directly to these topics. Moreover, we acknowledge our positionality as white settlers discussing this material – up to and including the language of the play's title, which we use only in context. To share another quote from Darrell Dennis's witty and informative book, Peace Pipe Dreams (2014): “There are many names used for our people because not all of us can agree on one. We all have our own pasts, world views and prejudices that will inform the term we prefer. As a result, there will never be one term that pleases one hundred percent of Natives all the time. Sorry. Luckily, Native people have a reputation as some of the most open, accepting and forgiving people in the world. Using an improper PC term will usually be ignored as long as your conversation is respectful and comes from a place of friendship.” (pp.28-29)Less importantly, this review contains many SPOILERS for Tales of an Urban Indian. It will begin with a general non-spoiler review until the [12:35] mark, followed by a more in-depth/anything goes/spoiler-rich discussion. If you intend to see the production, we recommend you stop watching after that point, or at least proceed at your own risk. Follow our panelists: Jillian Robinson – Instagram: @jillian.robinson96 Ryan Borochovitz – [Just send all that love to CoH instead; he won't mind!]; if you enjoy his theatre thoughts, more can be found at https://nextmag.ca/search/borochovitz Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com

I have had the honor and pleasure to have on the Unstoppable Mindset podcast many healers, thought leaders and practical intelligent people who have generously given their time and insights to all of you and me during this podcast. This episode, our guest Kay Hutchinson adds a great deal to the knowledge base we all have gained from our other guests. Kay's childhood was interesting in that she is half Japanese and half African American. This race mixture provided Kay with many life challenges. However, her parents taught her much about life and understanding so she was able to work through the many times where people treated her in less than an equal manner. Also, Kay being the child of a military father had the opportunity to live in both the United States and Japan. She gained from this experience a great deal of knowledge and experience about life that she willingly shares with us.   After college Kay went into teaching. Just wait until you hear what class she first had to teach, but she persevered. Through all her life she has felt she could assist people in healing others as you will hear. After teaching for a few years, she decided to make energy healing a full-time profession.   Along the way she fell in love and married. Unfortunately, as she will tell us, she discovered that her husband exhibited extreme narcissistic behaviors which eventually lead to a divorce. I leave it to Kay to tell the story.   Kay offers some pretty great insights and lessons we all can use to center ourselves. I very much hope you like what she has to say.       About the Guest:   Imagine the exhaustion, anxiety and utter soul depletion that results when you are in a narcissistic relationship.  Then, imagine being told that you have to go through years of counseling and perhaps even take anti-depressants to begin reclaiming your identity, health, emotional and financial stability, and restore your ability to experience God' joyousness. That's the journey that Kay Hutchinson was on in 2019 when she divorced a narcissist who dragged her through a nearly year-long court battle that almost destroyed her 15-year energy medicine practice where she specialized in helping empathic women make their sensitivities their super powers and left her with relentless shingles outbreaks and collapsed immunity. Through the journey of rebuilding her health and life, she discovered  the one thing that no one was talking about in terms of the recovery from narcissistic abuse…that narcissists damage the five energy tanks that rule our physical, emotional, financial and soul health. Yet no one was showing women how to repair themselves energetically.  But,  without repairing those tanks, women suffer for years with anxiety, depression, exhaustion and a multitude of debilitating physical health challenges. So, Kay created the first medical qi gong recovery program for narcissistic abuse survivors that use 5 minute energy resets to help women effortlessly re-ignite their body, mind and soul potential. For example, Kay's client Donna, whose health was devastated by the stress of a narcissistic marriage, was able to use the resets to reverse stage 5 kidney damage in only 90 days, preventing Donna from going on dialysis and empowering her to reclaim her life. With newfound health, Donna was able to rebuild her realty business and remarry. Her pastor husband and her are now building a successful ministry helping others. Kay is here today to share more inspirational stories like this and delve into the topic of energy vampirism –how we lose energy to toxic people and more importantly—what we can to stop the drain and become unstoppable in reclaiming our body, mind and soul potential when our energy has been decimated by a narcissist.  Ways to connect Kay:   Get Your Mojo Back Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/get-your-mojo-back-quick-resets-to-help-empathic-women/id1699115489 Website: https://www.aikihealing.com/ Free Healing Session: https://www.aikihealing.com/free-healing-for-narcissistic-abuse-priority-list Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aikihealingresets/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AikiHealingResets/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@aikihealing   About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/   https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. And as I've explained, the reason we word it that way is that diversity typically doesn't tend to involve disabilities, so inclusion comes first, because we don't allow people to be inclusive unless they're going to make sure that they include disabilities in the conversation, but mostly on the on the unstoppable mindset podcast, we don't deal as much with inclusion or diversity. We get to deal with the unexpected, which is anything that doesn't have to do directly with inclusion or diversity. And so today, in talking to Kay Hutchinson, we have a situation where we are going to talk about unexpected kinds of things, and that's what we're really all about. So Kay Hutchinson is our guest today. She has quite a story about, well, I'm not going to tell you all about it, other than just to say it's going to involve narcissism and it's going to involve a whole bunch of things. Kay is a podcaster. She's a coach, and she does a number of things that I think are really well worth talking about. So without further ado, Kay, welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Kay Hutchinson ** 02:40 Oh, Michael, every cell in my body is happy to be here today. I'm so thrilled. Oh,   Michael Hingson ** 02:47 good. I just want to make sure all the cells are communicating with you, and they're all saying good things they   Kay Hutchinson ** 02:52 are. Oh, good, absolutely.   Michael Hingson ** 02:56 Sell by cell. Let's, let's do a roll call and see how long that takes. But there we go. Well, I'm really glad that you are here. I'd like to start by kind of learning about the early K, growing up and all that sort of stuff. It's always fun to start that way, sort of like Lewis Carroll, you know, you start at the beginning. But anyway, tell us about the early k, if you would.   Kay Hutchinson ** 03:19 Oh my gosh, I'd love to and Michael, what's exciting to me about that, you know, with your show really focusing on diversity, when I look back to my childhood and I think about the various experiences that I had growing up as a biracial child in the 1960s I am half Japanese and half African American, against the backdrop of Malcolm X and at the time Martin Luther King, and all of this different flow of change was happening as I came into the world, and I was born on the island of Honolulu, Hawaii, feeling very much connected to the vibrancy of that space and those islands and that war of the power of the volcanoes, and I found myself just this really hyper sensitive young child where the world came in at me through all of my five senses, to the point where often I was very overwhelmed, but I was really blessed to have parents that understood this child's going to have a lot coming at her in the world, being what the world is at the time, and coming from different two different cultures that I was really well nourished and really was taught by parents who had embraced meditation and mindfulness as a way of really helping me calm my nervous system when I was little. So I really had this beautiful childhood of being able to bounce between different cultures, the US culture, and also living in Asia, but also coming face to face with things like racism face. Things like messages on a very large societal level that I did not belong anywhere, that I didn't fit, and so often I felt that the world outside of the safe space of my immediate family was a world that was very much overwhelming, and felt as if it was not for me, that it was not very nourishing. So very early on, I had to learn how to kind of begin regulating and begin navigating a world that wasn't necessarily set up for someone like myself. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 05:35 yeah, it's it's interesting when you and you certainly have an interesting combination of parents, half African American and half Japanese, definitely, two different cultures in a lot of ways, but at the same time, they both recognize the whole concept of mindfulness. They recognize the value of meditation and finding a calming center, I gather is what you're saying.   Kay Hutchinson ** 06:00 Absolutely, my father was one of the soldiers that right after he came into the service in the 1950s that got assigned to Japan and was in one of the first all African American military police units. It had never existed before. And so through his journey there, he actually ended up studying a lot of different forms of martial arts, as well as some of the healing arts like acupressure. So a lot of times people say, Okay, you practice Chinese energy medicine. Oh, that must have come from your mother's side of the heritage. But actually, the first exposure to healing and energy came from my dad, because he taught us martial arts, and he taught us actually some of the flows of energy on how to heal the body, because it's that idea that if you spar with a person, you're responsible for having to heal them if you injure them through the sparring. So that was like my first exposure to really learning the system of energy medicine. And then on my mom's side, it's interesting, she grew up with parents that were Buddhist and Taoist in their philosophy as well. So but at a very young age, in her late teens and early 20s, she was very curious about Christianity, and began attending churches that were of a Christian nature, and that's how she ended up meeting my father. And so this beautiful path of spirituality, learning about energy and understanding how to navigate through a world that wasn't necessarily built for me, was really at core of how we moved as a family, and I think that really formed the basis for developing a certain type of sensitivity to the nuances of differences and making those differences into superpowers. And that's really at the heart of what I do, not only as a healer, but and in my early career as a special education teacher, that really was one of the things that allowed me to recognize the value and power of children and help them to optimize their growth and   Michael Hingson ** 08:11 development. So where did you grow up? Where did you live? So   Kay Hutchinson ** 08:15 I lived in both countries. My father was Army, so we would spend some time in the US, primarily Texas, but we also lived part time in California, and then we would bounce back over, over the pond to Okinawa, Japan. So I had a lot of fond memories of both countries growing up.   Michael Hingson ** 08:33 That's, that's pretty cool. And it's, you know, I find that people who come on this podcast, who have had the joy of having the ability to live or having lived in different kinds of environments, do bring some very interesting perspectives on, on each of those countries and just on, on life in general. And they tend to, I think, have a overall better perspective on what life is all about, because they've seen more of it. And if they take the time to really think about life and all the things that they've seen, they come to value all of that a lot more   Kay Hutchinson ** 09:18 Absolutely it is that process of being able to really delve deep into the subtle uniqueness of life through different lenses. And when you travel, and when you get that opportunity to experience cultures directly, and you also have, you know, a heritage that's very rich on an ethnic level, you know, it really does allow the brain to see the world through many different facets. And I think that that really is what's needed in a world where, when we look at what's happening globally, there's rapid, rapid change. So those of us who have that experience of being able to bounce through all of these different experiences and take multiple facets. Because we end up being able to digest and are able to move through those experiences without becoming so overwhelmed, as so many people are experiencing today, with all of the quantum leap changes that are happening, changes happening so rapidly in our world.   Michael Hingson ** 10:16 Oh, we are, and we're we're exhibiting, of course, in this country, with a new president or a new old President, we're seeing a lot of changes, and I think history is going to, at some point, decide whether those changes or the things that that he's bringing about are good or not. And I think it's you can take a lot of different viewpoints on it. Oh, it's bad because he's doing this and he's doing that, and it's good because he's doing this and he's doing that, but I think ultimately, we're going to see, and I'm I think he's made some choices that are interesting, and we and we'll see how it all goes. But I wish that he had had more of a worldview. I think that's the one thing that I see, that he has not had as much of a true worldview as would probably be valuable,   Kay Hutchinson ** 11:11 absolutely, and that's, excuse me, that's really a concern in leadership, right? And how do we support when someone hasn't had that vastness, right? It then comes to us to really bring to the table the perspectives that hopefully will trickle over into influencing and supporting energetically. And here's that thing, because sometimes we can think, Oh, well, you know, the President's way up here, and what can I as an ordinary person, do to help bring more balance to that leadership. Well, I truly believe that energetically, we're all connected, so that when each of us is embracing this more multifaceted perspective, and we're not just embracing it in our brains, but actually living that, integrating that into how we move. We create a energy that ripples out, that absolutely touches every other person on the planet. And why would it not also touch, you know, people in positions of political leadership. So I believe that when we band together in that way, we do create change.   Michael Hingson ** 12:15 Well, I think we all are connected, and I think that is something that most people haven't recognized, and the more they don't and the more they decide they're an entity in of themselves, and there isn't that kind of interconnectionalism, the more it's going to hurt them more than anything else. But hopefully, over time, people will realize that we are all interrelated. Gandhi once said that interdependence is and ought to be as much the ideal of man, I guess, and woman, we should say. But, you know, he was, he was quoting back in the day, much as much the ideal of man as a self sufficiency. And I think that interdependence is all around us, and interdependence is something that we truly do need to recognize. And embrace, because no one really is an island into themselves,   Kay Hutchinson ** 13:08 and that's true, and this is where the challenge is. When we begin to start looking at energy, vampirism and narcissism, we're dealing with individuals who do not have that capacity to really embrace the fact that they are energetically and importantly connected to other people. They're disconnected from that. So how they're moving through life becomes very centered, focused on only their perspectives and their experiences. And that's where it can be really dangerous, because when we're in the midst of people that are moving like that, we may not realize that we're actually losing energy to them. And so it's really important to take a look more than ever, who is in your world? Are you surrounded by people that have an understanding of the value of connecting in with one another and truly having a fair exchange of energy. Or are you amid people that may be pulling energy from you in a one sided way because they have wounds that are preventing them from really being full in their own perspectives and in their own energy fields.   Michael Hingson ** 14:24 Well, and when you mentioned people who don't have the capacity, I wonder if it's true that they don't have the capacity, or they've chosen to reject it.   Kay Hutchinson ** 14:35 Well, I think that's the difference, right there. Michael, when they've chosen to reject it. That's not pathological in terms of the clinical definition of narcissism, that could apply to anyone that has simply made that choice. But part of the clinical definition of narcissism is it is a person who doesn't have the choice they're not capable because of early trauma in their life. During the period of time when they were attaching and beginning energetically to form bonds with other people, as well as psychologically and cognitively, disruption happened or is no longer a choice for them. They're no longer able to say, I want to be connected or not connected. There is a disruption on a trauma level that prevents them from being connected.   Michael Hingson ** 15:21 Is there a cure for that? Though, can people reverse that process?   Kay Hutchinson ** 15:26 So as far as I know, in Searching the Literature and working with colleagues, and I also have background in psychotherapy too, there is not, quote, unquote, a cure for that, but the damage is fairly deep. It's a matter of helping those individuals to manage the facets of their narcissism to minimize the damage. But are they ever disconnected from the intimacy that we have energetically with other human beings that tends to still be pervasive, even with long term therapy, psychotherapy, yeah, well,   Michael Hingson ** 16:03 you, I know, and we'll get to it. Have had some direct exposure and involvement with narcissism, but let's go back a little bit talking about you. Where did you go to college? I assume you did go to college.   Kay Hutchinson ** 16:17 Yeah, absolutely. I went to the University of Texas, at Austin, okay. And then later, for graduate school, I went to the California Institute of integral studies for counseling, psychotherapy, but also longevity Institute for all the energy medicine training. And I loved, I loved that they were the only program at the time in energy medicine, medical Qigong. They had a relationship with the head of the school. Was the head of Stanford's Integrative Medicine Department, and they were doing lots of things with looking at how energy healing impacts cancer and also how it affects the role of fertility. There was a famous Stanford IVF program, and what they were looking at was the idea that when women partook of Qigong and mindfulness techniques, they were able to successfully get pregnant at a higher level than if they did not. So it was a school that really embraced not only the science of energy, but also the spirituality of it as well. How do we develop and grow as beings that are souls in the world   Michael Hingson ** 17:27 and dealing with the practical application of it? Absolutely,   Kay Hutchinson ** 17:30 absolutely. So I often say that it was the place where shamanism met hardcore science and together, and that's kind of a little bit of what people experience, Michael, when they work with me, because I'm one of the few holistic practitioners that says, come in the door and bring me your actual medical data. I want to see the scans. I want to see your blood work data before we ever do an herbal formula, before I ever prescribe a set of medical Qigong resets. I really kind of want to see what we're looking at and what's happening with you on a quantifiable level, so that we can measure changes as we go along and process a few Sure   Michael Hingson ** 18:08 well. So you mentioned earlier Special Education song. What did you do after college?   Kay Hutchinson ** 18:14 So, in college, you know, I was studying cognitive science as well as special education. I was fascinated by how people learn, and so my career began as a special education teacher. The first assignment I had, though as a teacher, was teaching third grade math because I began working for a district mid season, and they didn't have a lot of different openings, and they said, well, Kay, we would love to have you in the school, but the special ed position will not be available till later. Would you come aboard teaching math? Now, little did anyone know, Michael, that I was actually math phobic. I was that kid that when I had to take math and calculus and things in college, had my head in my lap. Oh, I can't do this. This is just not my thing. And so to be asked to teach third grade, it was horrifying to me on one level, but then I said, you know, everything happens for a reason to start my teaching career, and the thing that I'm most fearful of could be a really good learning opportunity for me. What   Michael Hingson ** 19:14 did you learn from that? Oh my gosh, I learned that   Kay Hutchinson ** 19:17 the most important thing is creativity, because I had to say, okay, where, where am I starting? These kids were behind. They were third graders. They were behind in learning multiplication. And so I said, You know what? There's a method to teach multiplication with cubes and blocks and manipulatives that actually leads them to being able to do algebra. So I'm going to be creative and use these different tools to not only teach basic multiplication, but my goal for them is, when they leave me, they will have the basis for being able to do simple algebra problems in third grade. And the fact, Michael, that these kids, when we talk about diversity, inclusion, we. In a community where they were drive by shootings were in a community where other teachers did not believe that just because these children were children of color, that they did not have the same abilities and capabilities and potential to be able to go on to school at Harvard or Yale. It made me even more determined to say, I'm going to teach them a really higher level skill that everybody else will say is beyond their developmental level to prove that these children are just as capable as anybody else. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 20:31 and, and the reality is, they are. They have the capability, and it is something that just has to be encouraged. I know that when I was doing my student teaching. I was getting a master's degree in physics, so I did a little bit with math now and then, needless to say, and I was in the class one day, I was teaching eighth graders. I'm sorry, I was actually teaching high school freshman, but there was an eighth grader in the class, and he asked a question. It wasn't, I don't even remember what the question was, but it wasn't a hard question. But for some reason, I blanked out and didn't know what the answer was. But what I said to him was, I don't know the answer. I should, but I don't. I'm going to look it up and I'll come back tomorrow and tell you what the answer is. Is that okay? And he said, Yeah. When the class was over, my master teacher, who was the football coach, also came up, and he said, that was the most wonderful thing you could do. He said, kids will always know it if you're blowing smoke, if you're honest with them, and if you tell them the truth, you're going to gain a lot more respect. He said, That was the best thing that you could have possibly done with Marty's question. Well, the next day, I came back in with the answer. I went and looked it up, and it was as easy as it should have been, and I should have known. But I came in and I and when the class was all seated, I said, All right, Marty, I got the answer, and he said, so do i Mr. Hinkson? I said, well, then come up here and write it on the board. One of the things that I did not being a good writer, being blind. I just have never learned to have that great of handwriting. I would always have a student write on the board. And everyone competed for that job every day. So that day Marty got to do the job, Kenny came up and described it and said the answer. And I said, that's the same answer I got. And does everybody understand it? But it was so great to be able to interact with him. And it all started with being honest. And I think that's one of the best life lessons I ever learned, not only from being a student teacher, but just in general, that people know it when you're not being dishonest, they can sense it, whether they can articulate it, whether they know it consciously, they'll at least know it subconsciously. If you're not being honest and direct with them, and so it's important if you're going to truly earn trust, to have an honest relationship and and as I, as I put it, don't blow smoke at people.   Kay Hutchinson ** 23:12 That's so true. I mean authenticity as an energy is so very transformative, you know. And I love your story, Michael, because it reminds me too. When I was teaching, you know, I too, was honest with my kids. I just said, you guys feel scared of these problems that we have on our page. Your teacher was scared this morning and had her head in her lap crying like, how am I going to teach this to you? All you know, when they when we can be human with each other. When we are able to really just say what is real and in our hearts, it completely transforms the journey, because suddenly we recognize that we're all in the same space, and then we can lock arms to really move through it together. But if the energy is not even, there's not a fairness there, and part of the fairness is transparency, then it creates a completely different flow. It isn't necessarily transformative, and it can create obstacles and blocks versus being that wonderful thing where your student got to bloom, you got to bloom, and I'm sure the entire class benefited from the authenticity of both of you bouncing off of each other saying, this is the problem that I found, and this is Mike says, here's how I solved it. And together, you guys were able to really get that information across, I'm sure, in a way, that got everybody inspired to think about, how can they come about solving the problems too   Michael Hingson ** 24:35 well, something like 15 years later, we were at the Orange County Fair in July, and this guy with a deep voice comes up to me and he says, Hey, Mr. Hinkson, do you know recognize my voice? Well, there was no way. He says, I'm Marty, the guy from your algebra class 15 years later. And you know it was, it was really cool, yeah, and it was, it was so. To have that opportunity to, you know, to talk with him again. And, you know, we both, of course, had that, that same memory. But it's, it is so true in general, that honesty and connectionalism are so important, it's all about building trust. In my new book, live like a guide dog. We talk a lot about trust as one of the things that you can use to help learn to control fear, and specifically I talk about in the book lessons I've learned from all of my dogs, my guide dogs, and so on. And one of the lessons that we talk about is that dogs may very well, love unconditionally, but they don't trust unconditionally, and you do still have to earn their trust. They may love you, but they won't necessarily trust you until they get to know you. And so with every guide dog, I have to start all over and develop a new relationship and learn their quirks. But the reality is they're learning mind quirks as well, and what we do is we figure out how to interact and work together, and when we are both open to trust, and that's the other part of it, I have to be as much open to trust as the dog, because the way a previous guide dog worked and the things that a previous guide dog did don't necessarily apply with a new dog, and so it's important to really be open to developing that trusting relationship, but it takes a while to develop, but when the relationship develops, it is second to none, and and I wish it were more true with people, but we're always worried about so many things, and we think about what's this person's hidden agenda? We tend not to be open to trust. And the reality is, we can be just as much open to trust as we ever would need to be. That doesn't mean that we're always going to trust, because the other person has to earn our trust too, but we can be open to it absolutely.   Kay Hutchinson ** 27:01 And you know, animals are such an amazing teacher to that process of developing trust. I love what you said that they love unconditionally, but that not necessarily trust unconditionally. To me that is such balance, because I often notice in my work, there's a tendency, especially with empathic women, to over trust, to trust too soon, to not require that others earn that trust. And so I think it's really an important piece to find that balance in being able and being open to trust, but not rushing the process to the point where we lose our boundaries in that and when you interact with animals, you really learn how to do that. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 27:47 why do you think so many women are too eager to trust and do trust too quickly?   Kay Hutchinson ** 27:55 I think in the population of women that I work with in my groups, that they refer to themselves often as women empaths or empathic women. I think some of that can come from the over care taking syndrome that some of them may be exhibiting as a way of working through old wounds, that idea that it's my job to kind of just be this wide open radar and take care of others and be open, and they don't understand that it is absolutely part of self care to regulate that openness, to have a filter and to be able to give that piece of time to really see who people are, because narcissists oftentimes are wearing a facade. May not necessarily see who they are in the early stages of an engagement. So by being open, but still having boundaries, which kind of when your boundaries are respected over time, I think that's where trust really blooms. And by taking that time, then we are able to really make sure that we're in relationship with people where there is a fair exchange of trust, because that's part of the fair energy exchange, as I often say, is trust has to go both ways, and in a narcissistic relationship, it's usually just one way. It's the person you know who's non narcissistic, trusting fully and the narcissist withholding trust. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 29:17 and you think that men are much more not open to the whole concept of trust, than than women? Not   Kay Hutchinson ** 29:29 at all. I think men are beautiful in their heart spaces, just as open too. So I see men in paths exactly in that same space as well, men that are natural givers who want to connect. They can often also get in that space of trusting too soon. So when my practicing encompassed working with both men and women, that would be something that I would often kind of give guidance to in the dating process of Give it time. And allow somebody to earn that beautiful jewel of trust that is your heart, and allow yourself to also be discovered by the other person as someone who's trustworthy. Give it the space, because I've had beautiful men that were clients that absolutely got their hearts trampled, and also got their energy siphoned by energy vampires, just because they jumped in, just so wholeheartedly, so soon, so having that balance being aware of the pacing of a relationship, and then again, going back to animals, because that was part of the thing that I did. Michael straight out of energy school, I worked with animals first and human second. And I think that dance that we do with animals is really can be a framework or a model for how to move with humans too, because animals don't rush it. You know, they're going to take their time and trusting you. They're going to check you out and notice what your Kirks are and notice how you respond to them. It's not something to give right away. And so when you do earn the trust of an animal, whether it's a cat or dog or in my case, I also worked with wild animals, it is really such a treasure, and it's cherished when it happens.   Michael Hingson ** 31:15 Yeah, but then even wild animals are open to trust there. There are a lot of other things that you have to work through, but still, the the the opportunity to develop a trusting relationship is certainly there. Now I think that cats are more cautious than dogs about a lot of things, but they're but they're open to trust. I know that that stitch my cat does trust me, but she is much more cautious and tends to react to noises and other things a lot more than Alamo the guide dog does. So they're there. There are issues, but there's a lot of love there, and there is a lot of trust, and that is as it should be. But again, I've had to earn that trust, which is the real important part about it. Yeah, that's definitely   Kay Hutchinson ** 32:07 and, you know, you speak about, like, the differences of dogs and cats too. There's a difference in the neurological sensitivity, of course, with dogs too, it depends on the breed. You know, like, for example, chihuahuas can be very neurologically sensitive, so they react to many things, versus, say, like Labradors or other larger breeds of dogs, shepherds and so forth, they tend to have a more steady neurological response to the world. So they make wonderful emotional support and other helper roles in our lives. But cats, they tend to, across the board, be pretty high strung neurologically, which means that's why they would be a little bit more skittish about why   Michael Hingson ** 32:47 they're cats. Yeah, absolutely, it works. Well, how long? How long did you teach?   Kay Hutchinson ** 32:55 Well, I taught in public school. I think it was three years. I'm still a teacher. I never I just left the forum from a public school into I became a writer for textbook publishers. So I created Teacher Guides. There was a lot of teaching in that. And then I also ran the only medical Qigong professional certification certification program that is a one on one apprenticeship program, and I ran that program up until the pandemic, from 2008 or nine until the pandemic, before I slowly shifted into just this really super niche of working with women on the journey of recovering from narcissistic abuse, and really putting my full energy into that, I still get calls for people who want to certify with me, and so I'm I'm still thinking about reopening the school, but it's been such a pleasure going down this road and journey of developing virtual journeys for women online and watching them bloom and seeing the transformation. So I always say that I'm ever the teacher. I never really left the profession. Everything that I do involves education and really helping people to optimize the way they learn as souls and as whole beings in the world   Michael Hingson ** 34:17 well, and I think in reality, and I wish more people understood it. But I think we're all teachers, and I know one of the things that I learned when I first was put in a position where I had to start selling professionally, I took a Dale Carnegie sales course, and one of the things that they talked about in that course was sales people. The best sales people are counselors, they guide, they teach, because you'll get a better understanding of your prospects and your customers, but that's what you really should be doing. And again, there's a whole level of honesty that goes with that. But the reality is, I think that all of us teach. I know a lot of. Blind People say I don't I'm blind. I am the way I am. I don't want to be a teacher. I don't want to have to educate people. Well, the reality is, we all do that in one way or another. We're all teaching someone, or bunches of someone's from time to time. And the reality is, teaching is so fun,   Kay Hutchinson ** 35:21 it is, and I love that you said that, because we're always teaching people how to engage ourselves just on that level alone, or engage with ourselves. Yes, absolutely. And when we know that and we bring joyousness to the process, right, it can be so transformative, because when we're enjoying that process, we're going to go into those uncomfortable areas, right that may be challenging or difficult, and often engaging with other people, you come up with new facets and perspectives that you otherwise would not have. So I, I love, I love the dance of learning and also in sharing too.   Michael Hingson ** 36:06 My wife was a teacher for 10 years, and always loved it when she she did do special ed and so on. She was in a wheelchair her whole life, so she was sort of bent that way, but she loved teaching third grade. She thought that third grade was the best, because when you start to get older than that, kids get more set in their ways, and when they're younger than that, they're they're just not there. Yet. She loved third grade, so I'm glad you started with third grade math.   Kay Hutchinson ** 36:35 Third grade was really sweet. I went from there to early childhood so, and then later I was tutoring at the university level, I had an opportunity to work as a tutor to actually doctoral foreign students who needed help with writing skills and things like that. So I really have enjoyed that full spectrum, just as I enjoy working with clients that come from vast differences in their backgrounds, and taking the journey into to learning more about holistic ways and moving so a lot of fun. Oh,   Michael Hingson ** 37:09 it is, you know, and I think life in general is a lot of fun if we would just approach things the right way and not let everything upset us, we we have a much better life in our own world,   Kay Hutchinson ** 37:21 definitely, absolutely. Well, you,   Michael Hingson ** 37:25 you've talked a lot about this whole idea of narcissism and so on, and I know you've had involvement in your life with that. You want to talk about some of that and tell us how you really got into really doing a lot with it, and what motivates you and so on. Or how much of that do you want to talk about? Oh,   Kay Hutchinson ** 37:42 definitely. Well, you know, I would have to go all the way back to, you know, experiences with racism that I experienced as a narcissism. I'm not saying that every person who has racist thoughts or beliefs or or patterns are narcissists, but many narcissists are racist, and so I think the early exposure to what I would call someone that is an energy vampire bent on manipulating or creating a flow that isn't a fair exchange of energy happened to me at a very young age. So I gained a lot of insight into how do you move through that? So it made sense that when I was beginning my career as an energy healer, as a practitioner, and I started noticing the different physical and emotional issues people would come in the door with, they'd come in with, say, like autoimmune issues, thyroid issues, cancer and different things like that. But when we began to really look at the root of all of those conditions, we began to realize that there was a pattern of having been in some sort of prolonged engagement with another person, where there was not a fair energy exchange. And that's when I began to realize, oh, all of my clients have had experiences with narcissism and of having had their energy siphoned in a way that was not beneficial for the entire body, mind and soul, and so in creating these resets for clients for nearly, I think it was about 15 years I was into that career. I never realized, because I'd never encountered it directly in a personal relationship. What it was like to be in a relationship with a covert narcissist, and I fell in love with a person who was very, very clever as far as really hiding those aspects of his personality. And I've come to understand that the reason that I walked that journey was so that I could have first hand lived experience. I knew what overt narcissism was about, but I had never really experienced the covert variety that hidden, that more subtle type. And by being in this marriage and relationship with a person that was exactly that, it gave me a lot of insight. To the subtle ways that we lose energy to people, and what the impact is on that physical level. For me, it left my immunity completely tanked, and I was having reoccurring shingles all over my face. I was having high anxiety, which was not a part of my emotional walk. Previously, I was also very fatigued. I had resolved many years prior to that severe fibromyalgia, and suddenly that came out of remission, and I was in constant pain every day. So you know, in seeing how dramatically my own health changed, it also changed the way that I was showing up on a business level, how available I was on an energy level, to really serve clients. And it also showed up in terms of my spiritual path, where I slowly began to get disconnected from source and not rely on that as my critical way of moving through life, where previously I have so it was a just a journey of really, truly recognizing what it feels like across every level imaginable to get decimated by the person that You love because they are wounded and are narcissistic.   Michael Hingson ** 41:22 What finally happened that made you realize what was occurring and caused you to decide to deal with the whole issue.   Kay Hutchinson ** 41:31 Well, you know, it wasn't just one thing Michael, because if he was a subtle narcissist, my understandings of what was happening came about gradually. But the thing that really stood out in my mind, that made me say, You know what, I absolutely need to get out of this relationship was when I went to caretake an aunt that had stage five stomach cancer, and I had previously was in the role of caretaking his mom, when she had metastatic blood level cancer. It was a form of leukemia, and also his aunt, who had a form of bone cancer. So when his family members were ill, I was there. I dropped everything, not only just as a healer, but as a family member, as someone who loved these Dear ladies, was by their sides and really helped them to transition. But when it came time for me to be at the side of my relative, my husband was completely lacking in empathy, and I'd spend the entire day with her, just helping her to quell nausea, get more comfortable, feel more peaceful. I completely had not eaten the whole day because my whole attention was on her and also on my father. Her brother, wanted to make sure that my dad was okay in being with her, because he was also approaching soon the final days of his life. He had a lot of weakness going on and things. And I returned home, and I was just exhausted, and I said, Honey, let's go out for dinner, and let's go out and do something kind of fun, because that's what I am, and I give a lot on that heavy level, I like to shift over to something light. And I was met with, I don't want to go anywhere. Why do you always want to go out to dinner, and he just started kind of yelling at me, and I realized, oh, wow, just even on a pure nourishment level, I need food because I haven't eaten all day. This is somehow becoming a challenge. And I ended up going out to dinner by myself at a time when I was really super vulnerable about ready to lose my last living aunt in the States, and thinking, what am I doing in a relationship where merely asking to be fed, not even emotionally, is a challenge? And I said, Ah, he can't even literally feed me. And I knew there was no fixing that. Even though we had gone through counseling, it's like, no, no, this is just not going to continue. I have to leave, right? So that was a critical moment in my life of just and that's what I would say to everybody in the audience. Ask yourself, are you being felt fed well? Are you being well nourished by the person that you're in that relationship with? Because narcissists are not capable of nourishing   Michael Hingson ** 44:29 you. Yeah. So what happened? I mean, you made you, you realize what was occurring. What did you do? So   Kay Hutchinson ** 44:35 at that point, we had been in counseling, so I got on the phone with our counselor, and I said, I really need your safe space the next time we come in, because I need to have a conversation about divorcing, and I really need to make sure that I'm moving through this safely and with the proper support around me. And that's really, really important, because if your audience. Are in relationships with narcissists who have never been abusive, they need to understand that there's a high likelihood of them becoming physically abusive when they decide to leave. Mm, hmm. And so it's really important to make sure that that conversation is happening in a safe space and that there's enough support around to keep violence from escalating, even if you've never seen that person in that more physically abusive space, it needs to be considered.   Michael Hingson ** 45:33 So you, you talk to your counselor about that, and then you, you, I assume, had a session where you, you, you dealt with some of those issues, absolutely,   Kay Hutchinson ** 45:44 with the safety of of the counselor there, we were able to map out a strategy. But Silly me, Michael, I thought, well, you know, we have an agreement that we need to go our separate ways. We're two adults. We can do this peacefully. It's not complicated. We lived in the state of Texas. It's not hard to do. And so we said we'll just go to a mediator, and everything will be fine. They'll do up the paperwork, legally, we'll sign we'll go our different ways. Wish each other well, take what we each learn from this and move on with our lives. So it seemed a simple thing, but at the very last moment when we were scheduled to see the mediator, mediator attorney gets a call from a lawyer that I didn't know he even had saying, oh my, my client can't come into this mediation without me being present, because he's represented. And it was a bulldog attorney that was known for just rolling over the other person. And I went, ah, and so I got dragged to nearly a year and a half legal battle that really didn't need to be there, but I was very blessed in connecting with an attorney who specialized in helping people divorce from narcissist, and she was able to say to me, Kay, I know you have important healing to do for yourself, but also for the clients that you serve, let me take this over and you go, do you, and I'll just ting you whenever you need to sign something. And she just completely took it over for me so that I could move on with my life and decide, you know, what did I want to create in the new phase of my life? But not everybody has that ability to kind of really lock arms with attorneys that are highly skilled in dealing with narcissists, because the narcissist will weaponize the legal system if they're allowed to do that, and it can drive up costs. It can be exhausting on many different levels. So it's really important, if you can't afford to have an attorney that has that experience, there are many blogs and many places where you can connect to get that support, even if you're working with an attorney who is less experienced, right? Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 47:55 but eventually you you were able to to deal with it, and I'm sure that it was incredibly traumatic. How long ago did all this occur?   Kay Hutchinson ** 48:06 Oh, this was occurring. 2018 2019 Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 48:10 so it's not been all that been six years. Yeah, six years,   Kay Hutchinson ** 48:15 absolutely. And you know, I often say that when you're going through an experience, after having been around someone that second guessed your reality, that we will tend to second guess our own reality too. And so one of the things I think that really helped me on a mindset level, was continuing to ask myself, well, what do I really feel? What do I really think? Exactly   Michael Hingson ** 48:40 right, exactly right. Yeah,   Kay Hutchinson ** 48:43 and reconnecting with that because I had been separated or disconnected from things that were really vital and important to me, because he had said that they were not important, or perhaps I was overreacting or being too sensitive that I began to discount those things within myself. So it's really this journey of really allowing myself to truly come back into valuing all of the things that were really important to me   Michael Hingson ** 49:10 to you. Yes, what you know narcissism is an interesting subject. What is maybe one thing that so not Well, let me go back. Narcissism certainly deals a lot with emotional issues, and there can be physical issues and so on. But what's maybe the one thing that you've seen in your work that most people wouldn't associate with a narcissistic person or narcissistic behavior,   Kay Hutchinson ** 49:41 I think the one thing that people don't really put enough of a spotlight on is that they are energy vampires. They create an energetic disruption across the five areas of ourselves that are absolutely critical for our physical health. For. For our emotional stability and our soul growth. So we're talking body, mind and soul disruption. You know, often times the talk is on the psychological or the emotional disruptions, or if there's a physical abuse component, it might be on that level. But it's really very rare that we are really associating that idea of energy, vampirism, of energy, of being a predator on an energetic level, with narcissists and so that is really core. Because until we start to heal the energetic damage that has occurred, we end up staying in a state of struggling for years with emotions that may be all over the place. I see felt it in myself. I see it in my clients, anxiety, depression, that feeling of being on an emotion, emotional roller coaster, and then all of the physical health issues that go along with it, whether someone experienced physical abuse or not, and then that soul disconnect. You know, energetically, we have to have, I often say, Energy Tanks. We need to have all five of our energy tanks full in order to have a relationship with source that is evolving that allows us to transform and elevate ourselves on that spiritual level. And so if we're damaged across our five Energy Tanks, we will find it difficult to really connect in with the power that is higher than ourselves. Tell me a little more   Michael Hingson ** 51:27 about this concept of the five Energy Tanks, if you would. Absolutely   Kay Hutchinson ** 51:31 that's my own wording, but really it's the language of Chinese energy medicine that's over 2000 years old, built on the idea of the five elements, whether you're an acupuncturist, an acupressurist, whether you are a martial artist, everything flows along the five elements, in terms of Chinese energy, medicine and the five elements are a system that helps to explain the relationship between our emotions, the different states of our emotions, our physical selves, and the way that we grow in souls. So I often say, you know that there's five tanks. John Gray made that comparison back I think it was in the 80s when he wrote about the different tanks that people need to have filled in their lives, like relationship tanks and the self care tank and all of these different things. It's kind of similar to that idea, but each one of these areas has a very critical role in our development. So like, say, the water element, this is essence, and then DNA level. So often times when we've been in traumatic situations, we may start to see some DNA level disruptions, and often that will appear as cellular abnormalities. Cancer would be a very good example of that, that when we're under immense stress, on a trauma level, the water element, which rules our DNA, on an element level becomes disrupted. So I see that a lot in my practice, where women have metastatic breast cancer and other forms of cancer as a result of the long term chronic stress of being in a narcissistic relationship, or their nervous systems, like my nervous system was completely damaged and I was hyper vigilant all the time. Had insomnia, had difficulty processing information. My natural dyslexia and learning disabilities that I came into the world with became exacerbated when I was in that narcissistic relationship. That's the wood energy tank that rules our nervous systems. So there's a take for each aspect of ourselves that gets impacted by the experience of being in a relationship where the energy exchange is not mutual and fair.   Michael Hingson ** 53:50 When you're talking about this whole concept of energy vampires and and the whole issue of having to face or deal with a narcissist. One of the things that seems to me happens is that your ability to have creative thinking and to be creative in your thinking goes down, and the result is that you, you you're again, you're you're sucked into something that you really shouldn't be sucked into, but you've lost some of the clearer thinking that you would normally have. How do you deal with that, and how do you get that back absolutely   Kay Hutchinson ** 54:34 but when we start to look again at the elements and how that shows up for creativity, our metal element has to do with our ability to feel safe and shielded. We can't be creative and stretch into areas that are unknown if we're not feeling safe. So beginning to do resets, where we begin to visualize the shielding around ourselves being restored, can be very helpful to begin to settle that. Sense of, oh, I'm not safe. And so there's specific breath work and energy resets that we do to really help to get that foundation of safety before we even begin to restore other aspects that affect creativity. The next thing that we have to do, Michael is really, once we're feeling safe, we need to be able to center ourselves, because if our thoughts are scattered all over the place, our energy is all over the place, it's hard to get centered, to bring the focus that is also a part of being creative. So the earth element is what allows us to begin to ground and calm ourselves, begin to focus and collect all of these different thoughts that we may be having and feeling so that we can harness them in a creative way to go forward. Similarly, we have to calm our nervous system so that our brains are able to create the rhythms on a brain wave frequency level that is conducive to creativity again, if our brain waves, if we were to look at an EEG right before hitting a moment of creativity, there might be a lot of bouncing activity going on, and it's only when that activity begins to settle and calm that we then are able to implement and bring forth something that is creative. So being able to regulate that becomes very important, as well as getting into the space of reconnecting with a fire element, which is joy. Because I often say creativity is just the expression of joy, right when we are in that joyous state, it's amazing how many different ways our brains can move to come up with something that is unusual, innovative out of the box. And so the restoration of the fire element, take passion, joy, all of that feeds in to the creative cycle. And then last on that water element, that essence level, right? Creativity comes from a deep well that we have as humans. When we're able to tap into that, we not only tap into a level of creativity that is not only unique to us as individuals, but we tap into the collective of the human creativity and consciousness, and so that allows us to ignite what we're doing in many creative ways. And this is why, as women heal these areas. Michael, they go out and do incredible things. They're able to go out and start new businesses. They start new careers at the age of 50 in their passion areas that they never thought that they would have done. They're able to take trips and go and pursue things that once they were fearful of, but now they are excited to open up themselves, up to trying new things in new ways. And so, you know, the restoration of creativity is very much a part of core of recovering from narcissistic abuse, because that's the one area that most people don't think about too going back to your earlier question, that truly gets impacted when we go through a narcissistic relationship, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 58:13 well, you have obviously been through a whole lot. What allowed you, or how were you able to keep I guess, what we would call an unstoppable mindset, through all of the things that that you went through, what, what drove you, if you will, to be able to succeed. I   Kay Hutchinson ** 58:33 think it's exactly what we've been talking about, having the practices that allowed me to refuel those five takes allow the highest level of energy to kind of flow through my brain, to keep that mindset in that positive area, to keep me motivated and passionate when you're working energetically, to restore yourself the mind comes along. It's not the thing you know. A lot of people say, Well, you got to change your mindset first, and I believe there's value in that. But guess what? When you change your energy first, there is no possibility of the mind flowing into negative spaces to hold you back, because your energy is creating this vibration that then fuels the thoughts that keeps you moving, and that's really the life that I've led. And when I find in moments that I may be falling into a place that is challenged on that mental thought level, I do my energetic practices, and boom, immediately, there's a shift from either a sad state to a state of feeling resilient, from a fearful state to being brave and courageous, to say, Hey, I just jump into this deep end of the pool because that's what I'm afraid of, and that's what I need to do, and trusting going back to trust that there's going to be tremendous growth and benefit. So. The more it's not that hard,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:01 no. But the other part of it is, the more of that that you do, the more you do the introspection, the more you analyze yourself, you think about what we're talking about here, the more that you actually go through the process, in a sense, the more you do, the easier it becomes, or the more efficient you are at doing it. And the result of that is that you become better at it, and so you're able to gain that control. It's it. The whole issue of resilience is is something to practice, but, but it is something that you have to work at I made a video recently where I talked about emergency preparedness, and I said most all of us don't prepare for emergencies, because what we don't do is we don't prepare our minds. Oh, we can create a plan so that there's a fire, we can grab a go bag or whatever. But how do we really prepare our minds? And that is something that we need to do a lot more of than we do today.   Kay Hutchinson ** 1:01:03 Absolutely. And the idea, Michael, that it doesn't take like long stretches of meditation, people have that myth in their minds to prepare yourself and be mindful when there are circumstances unfolding that maybe crisis by taking bite sized moments, I teach five minute resets to reset the brain and reset the mind, and you do enough of those over time, then when crisis hits, you have a whole well of cultivation to draw from and that that really ends up carrying you through whatever that crisis is. And I love that it's not enough just to prepare our minds cognitively for things, we must prepare ourselves from that deeper space energetically, so that when we're in the middle of things, we're not pulled so far off of our center that we forget that beautiful plan that we made,   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:57 right, exactly right. And the reality is, it all does work together. Well, what's the one thing? Maybe that would surprise people if they knew it about you? Oh, gosh, how's that for a good question.   Kay Hutchinson ** 1:02:14 I think the one thing that that most people don't realize about me is that I am a martial artist, because most people think of me as just that healer that brings that comfort in and that level of soothing that I'm known for, and most people don't realize that there's a really strong warrior inside of K and I think we need to be able to embrace the warrior within ourselves and marry that to our peaceful, meditative selves. That the joining of both of them, I think, is really what makes me one of the strongest beings on this planet,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:55 and that is as good as it gets. So have you written any books? So   Kay Hutchinson ** 1:03:02 my book, the five elements healing, a practical guide for reclaiming your essential power, is currently being reworked. So you will not find it on Amazon at this time, but watch for it in a few months, because we're completely redoing that. And then also, I've contributed to redesign your nine to five advice and strategies from 50 of the world's most ambitious business owners and entrepreneurs. It was compiled by Bridget McGowan, and that one you can find on Amazon, and I was so blessed to create the chapter on how to create a soul based business, one that really allows you to develop what Michael and I are talking about, the unstoppable mindset as a critical way of moving through what you put out into the world. As a business owner,   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:51 well, I definitely want to hear about the new book when it nor the reworked book when it comes out. So you have to let us know. Oh, absolutely. How do people reach out and get in touch with you, if they'd like to to learn from you, use your services and so on. How does that work?   Kay Hutchinson ** 1:04:07 Absolutely on your show notes, people can get in touch with me through the website that's listed in the link, and they can find out about the latest healing journeys, which I'm so excited Michael, because we have a live, free healing session coming up on February the ninth, at noon, Central Standard Time. I do these regularly to allow people that opportunity to begin to experience healing, the five Energy Tanks that narcissist destroying through a soothing distance healing to see if they are ready to take other journeys with me. So that's probably the best way, is to visit the website. And I know it's right here   Michael Hingson ** 1:04:48 on your show. It is in the notes, but go ahead and say the website, if you would absolutely   Kay Hutchinson ** 1:04:52 and the website is a, I K I healing.com Easy to remember, A, I K I healing.com   Michael Hingson ** 1:05:00 Um,

穆迪降評事件過後，至此美國已遭三大信評機構全數降評，美債的供給面有大量到期與大量發債的問題，需求面又有對美國市場信心的疑慮，究竟應該怎麼解讀呢？ 本集邀請美國研究員 Ralice 來聊聊，穆迪降評對市場的影響，以及美債供需的擔憂與風險，最後也將一一解析未來美國在債務、利息、與減税額的三重夾擊下，我們提供的兩大解法！

Fred Heppner of Arizona Transitions is back for part 2 of his chat with Kiera! Life comes at you fast, and sometimes, it comes in the form of a surprise. Kiera and Fred talk about creating an exit strategy today for your departure from dentistry, as well as what the economics look like for moving on from a practice. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript Kiera Dent (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am so excited for you to have part two of me and Fred Heppner going through associates, DSOs, how to really grow this. You guys, we had such an incredible first half of this episode. It was so long and so much information that I wanted to break it into two parts. So here's part two. I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.   Kiera Dent (00:24) should people be talking   when they're in their 20s 30s or is it something we're like start to think about it I know Ryan and I from Dentist advisors we we talk shop about this quite often of like there I mean there are studies that show that when you retire you actually start to atrophy in life and ⁓ there isn't as much of a purpose and so we talk often of like how can we continue that   mental stamina, the things that are going to fulfill us, whether it's working or something else of philanthropy, like whatever is going to keep you going as a human, whether you're working in the chair or you're not, I think is important. So that's I was curious of like, really probably connecting with you three to five years before we think we might retire, but with the caveat of, hey, if something were to happen to me, what would kind of be my exit strategy? your like death list like I do, like if I die, this is what's going to happen. It's creepy, but it's awesome.   Fred Heppner (01:15) No, it's, it's creepy and it is awesome. And at the same time, it's a really good conversation to have because if we're three to five years out, then one of the first things to do is say, okay, so what's going to happen if you're not here? And that carries on to the discussion we had earlier. So once the discussion about, what do want to do when you, when you retire or you stop practicing dentistry, then the questions start coming up. What about the economics?   Kiera Dent (01:27) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (01:44) So in any... Yep, absolutely.   Kiera Dent (01:44) I was just going to say, like, is it sell? Is it DSO? it? And also, I mean, this   to me also, I think might exponentially accelerate some people's plans because the DSOs are hot and it's like 10x EBITDA. That might accelerate your retirement or your sell because you're on a wave right now that who knows if in the next 20, 30, 40 years we'll be there. Fred, I'm super curious, like, how is this whole DSO model maybe shifting it for transitions? Or is it? I'm curious.   Fred Heppner (02:13) It is, it's shifted quite a bit, but what it's shifted is a real desire for dentists to be able to sell their businesses and release the management responsibility and to have somebody else take that over. 15, 20. Yeah. I just want to do, I just want to do dentistry. I don't want to manage a business. I don't want to manage people. Um, I don't want to run the company. I want to be able to practice my trade. Well,   Kiera Dent (02:22) you   The dream for every business owner. ⁓   Exactly.   Fred Heppner (02:43) I can tell you that in the last 15, 20 years, it's certainly exploded in dentistry and not in a bad way. And here's why. Dentists graduating from dental school today need a place to work. The banks that loan money to dentists to buy dental practices are looking for dentists that have a couple years experience in dentistry. They have a production track record. The banks can see what it is that the dentist can do. Chair aside.   a good credit score and some liquidity, usually 8 to 10 % of the purchase price of the business that they're looking at in cash. So one of the things to consider is graduating dentists should be able to make the minimum payments on their debt, on their student loans, on what debt they have, and begin to put money away as quickly as possible to gain some liquidity. So as we look at the equation of   what DSOs are doing, they're providing them with a place to work. Because as dentists come out, I mean, the majority of dental practices that I work with, maybe you can echo this or discuss it, are just single dentist practices. Right, they don't have a, somebody called it a plus one at some point time, and I thought, okay, that's decent. So you have the dentistry, but there's the ability to bring somebody on maybe one or two days a week. Well, that doesn't,   Kiera Dent (03:44) Mm-hmm.   Totally same.   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (04:09) That doesn't feed a hungry young dentist coming out of dental school who really has a lot of debt and wants to begin to work and develop a way to reduce that debt. They're looking for four days a week, five. They might have a quality of life thing where they just want to work three tens and be off Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. That's okay. But the point is, is that most private practices don't have the capacity to be able to bring on a full-time dentist and feed them right away and keep them very busy. The DSOs, corporate dentistry,   Kiera Dent (04:19) Right.   Fred Heppner (04:39) have offices that can provide that place. So essentially, if a dentist comes out of school and begins to work, they may very well work for one of the corporate DSOs, which gives them experience. It gives them the ability to work five days a week. It gives them the ability to practice in what I call civilian dentistry out of dental school. And it gives them the opportunity to be able to see what it's really like. I can tell you, Kiera, that 15, I think 15 years ago,   Kiera Dent (04:57) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (05:08) the most popular phone call I would get on my phone line was, hey, we just got 50 million from a private equity firm. We're starting a DSO, but we're different. And we want to buy practices from you because we heard you're good. And I just tell them, great, thanks very much. Get in line, register on my website. And when an opportunity comes up, I will email to you like I do everybody else the opportunity. Because most of my clients call and say, I...   Kiera Dent (05:17) you   Fred Heppner (05:34) Hard no to a DSO. I'm a private practitioner. I've got a legacy practice and I want to sell to another private dentist Okay, so that was the most popular second most popular call was I'm sick of working for a company find me a practice to buy Now it's shifted More so do I hear I'm sick of working for somebody else find me a private practice to buy I'm ready to go The the DSO calls have filtered off of it and I don't know that that's a global   Kiera Dent (05:48) Mm-hmm. ⁓   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (06:03) representation of the DSOs starting to slow their buying and really focus on the profitability of the offices they have to really maintain the profitability due to higher interest rates. Maybe they're slowing down their buying. Who knows? The interesting thing about it is that it's somewhat of a closed loop in DSO work. You really can't get into and find out exactly what everybody is doing unless you're member of their organizations, which is fine. And I respect that.   Kiera Dent (06:12) Yeah.   Fred Heppner (06:32) private information, but it begs the question. And ultimately, if a dentist is looking to buy their own practice, eventually they're going to need those one to two years experience, liquidity, good credit score, in order for them to go to one of the commercial banks and say, I want to buy a practice and let me get a practice to buy and then we'll put it together. Okay? So I can tell you that private practice is alive and well.   Kiera Dent (06:55) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (07:02) very bullish on the individual dentist who's out there still practicing and doing quite well. I can also tell you that those kinds of doctor to doctor transitions are extremely successful. The idea is some people who look at a transition like that would think, my gosh, the dentist leaves, all the patients will leave. They'll go somewhere else, they'll go to other practices. Well, if that was true, let's carry that forward. If that was true,   Kiera Dent (07:14) Mm-hmm.   No.   Fred Heppner (07:28) then that would mean that the loans that the dentist used to buy the practice would go in default, would they not? Because if all the patients left, there would be no revenue and they'd have to fold up camp and see you later, right? The default rate on dental practice loans still over the last 15, 20 years and even recently is 40 basis points. 100 basis points is 1%. 40 basis points is four tenths of 1%. So if you follow the math,   Kiera Dent (07:33) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (07:58) The default rate is less than half of 1 % on the billions of dollars that are loaned by banks for dentists to buy practices. They don't fail. Okay.   Kiera Dent (08:08) Totally. They don't and they're such a   good investment. I think that that's why so many people like, that's why I think DSOs are buying up practices. ⁓ And I think that that's where so many private practice owners now, I would say I've watched where it used to be legacy practices and there's still legacy practice doctors who do not want to sell to a DSO. Like when they're there, they want to sell doctor to doctor, they want to bring in an associate, they want to bring in partners. I think   By default, dentistry tends to be a more humanistic, ⁓ very relationship model ⁓ versus I still think though, right now DSOs, you're right. I don't think people are getting as many calls. ⁓ But what I will say is my doctors are probably getting 20 to 30 emails every month from a DSO interested in buying their practice. So they are getting it as private practice owners. And so I think that that's where, ⁓ like I said, some people within the last eight years bought a practice as a private practice.   the DSOs, they were profitable. were within the metrics that the DSO wanted. And it just made sense. was like, I'm going to get 10x EBITDA on this. My EBITDA is great. No private party is going to pay me what this DSO is going to pay me. And while yes, I'd love it to maintain a legacy practice, I'm in my 30s and I could basically have retirement today. mean, there's more risk selling out because they have a lot of it in their stocks and there's a whole ⁓ game around that.   I think that that's where maybe some of the younger generation might be looking at transitions sooner than I think the more senior population of dentistry is. think that they're starting to be the shift and that's where I'm very curious of like, maybe conversations need to be had sooner. Maybe because DSOs are aggressive on the emails to the dentist. Like it is wild and they are sexy offers to them that are not always true. And that creeps me out too, because they're hearing a number. Like I had a doctor and he had a DSO.   Fred Heppner (09:49) Yep. Yep.   Kiera Dent (10:04) come to him and they said, Hey, we're going to give you 5 million. And he's like, here, it seems like a great deal. And I said, yeah, but you're going to do 5 million next year just in your own production. So that's actually a bad deal because you're already going to make that without selling to them and having to work for them for the next five to 10 years or like three to five is usually what their requirement is. So again, I think that this is where it's like, how do we cut through that noise to know when I do transition? Because I think people are getting asked to transition from private practice.   sooner. You're right, they go work at the DSO, they go to some of those bigger corporate practices to get the experience, then they go buy their private practice, and then it really is, or they do a startup. And then it's pretty aggressive because I think Wall Street's pretty hot right now and private equity is very, very luring, but they do have to hit certain requirements to join DSOs.   Fred Heppner (10:53) Yeah. There are tons of verticals that people are getting into, the private equity is getting into, you're right. There's a ton of money at it. You know, I would tell you that the devil is in the details. It may very well be that there are transitions that occur where a DSO or a corporation acquires the assets of a private practice and the dentist stays and works back in the office. And that transition works swimmingly well for the dentist who sells for the DSO.   Kiera Dent (11:02) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (11:21) And ultimately everything works out fine. There are others that don't and they're, they're out there. And I think what you mentioned earlier is, you know, I could get 5 million from my practice. Well, why would you, you will be able to make that in, your earnings in 2.3 years, whatever it might be, whatever the math pencils that be. But if you think about it, if it, if 10 times EBITDA is their offering price, what are, what are the details? How much cash at closing?   Kiera Dent (11:38) Right.   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (11:49) Is there a work back or a work back arrangement where you will be paid to be the dentist? And what is your compensation? What are the benefits that you would receive? And what is the term of that work back arrangement? You're right. It's creeping up now more into five years. 15, 20 years ago, was maybe, you know, stay on one or two years and we're good. There's a claw back. There's a hold back provision that holds back part of the purchase price. And the dentist has to meet the   Kiera Dent (12:04) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Fred Heppner (12:17) has to meet certain metrics from the trailing 12 months to be able to get that back. Well, let's pretend. Let's pretend that the DSO comes in and sets up the practice and nothing changes and the business continues to grow and develop because there's more marketing promotion and advertising. There's better cost control. There's just better stuff going on and that works. Well, what if it doesn't? What if all of a sudden the company comes in and says, we're changing these policies?   You were Delta Dental Premier, we're jumping into PPOs because we've got really good reimbursement rates on these 12 PPO contracts. Well, if that reimbursement rate drops from fee for service, does that hinder the doctor to be able to generate the income necessary for that hold back to be acquired in the next two to three years? And then there's equity. You mentioned that they offer a stock in the company to be able to ultimately participate in a   Kiera Dent (13:09) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (13:15) recapitalization should that happen? Well, it'd be really interesting. You're going to love this one. I know you're going to love this one. So for any of your listeners, any of your A-Team clients, if they get approached by a DSO and they look at it and they think it's really, really good, have somebody look at it. What you will hear typically is you really don't need an advisor. You don't need an attorney. We've got all the contracts ready to go. You can come.   Kiera Dent (13:35) Mm-hmm.   Lies. Lies.   Fred Heppner (13:44) Exactly. You can just take all of this and we'll be good. Well, trust but verify. And ultimately a good team would be able to review these. I would be glad to review. I review paperwork all the time from dentists that are looking to transition. And if there's an equity piece in that offer, I turn around and contact the DSO on behalf of the client. And I say, we'd like to see your financials.   Kiera Dent (14:08) Absolutely.   Fred Heppner (14:11) What do you mean? Well, you're asking my client to acquire stock in your company in lieu of cash at closing. yeah, that's part of the deal. I need to see your financials. I need to advise my client on whether or not you have a healthy company and whether or not my client's going to be at risk by taking stock in your company. Well, nobody's ever asked us that. Well, I am. And doesn't it make sense? We've just provided to you tax returns, profit and loss statements, but sing along if you know the words, balance sheets, W-2, production reports, everything on the business.   Kiera Dent (14:21) Yeah.   things.   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (14:39) And yet you're not willing to provide the other. Just provide the other. Show us that your business is solvent. Show it that it is something that my client would like to receive in stock. So, mon bro.   Kiera Dent (14:50) And there's strategy   for tax around that too. there are benefits to having stock rather than all the cash at closing for your total dollar amount when you want to retire, but only if that stock actually is valuable.   Fred Heppner (15:05) Pays back. Correct. Good. And that   is so brilliant. You see, you're good looking, you're smart, and that's a rare combination today. So, so, but think about it. You just mentioned something that people really don't think. If, if I have a practice and they give me 1.5 million chopped up into the ways that we've mentioned, and I have $200,000 worth of equity in the company, what if that $200,000 is half of 1 %? Well, when they recapitalize, I get half of 1 % of what proceeds, right?   Kiera Dent (15:09) Thank you.   Mm-hmm.   I love it. It's such a...   Fred Heppner (15:35) So map it out. Yeah, map it out. mean, can   you sell your practice twice? sometimes yes, sometimes no.   Kiera Dent (15:43) And there's so many sticky pieces around it. And that's where I feel like it's just a, think this is where people get leery to do it. However, I think like there are some, you said, that go really, really well, but agreed. And when I look at this people like Kiera, like I thought about that doctor and I was like, so sweet. You're going to five mil. That's your 10 X. You're going to produce 5 million. Your overhead right now is sitting at a 50 % overhead. So right now you're taking 2.5. Let's say you do get a $5 million check.   you give me 10 taxes, it's barely over your 2.5, which you're already going to get next year. So like, yes, next year, you still have to pay taxes because you're at a 50 % overhead. So you will still get a small amount more of cash to you. But there's a lot of strategy that goes into that 2.5, pending upon what you need when you invest that, like for every million, it's about like on average, if it's in the stock market, about 35,000 right now is like a very, very, very loose number to like estimate your financial future. But I'm like,   you throw 2.5 into the stock market right now, we'll high five, you're making about 100K a year. Like that's just to me, those are the things that I feel you need to be really smart about to make sure that your practices are assets and not liabilities and something that really will provide the retirement for the work you've put in rather than it just feeling good in the moment, but not really giving the life you want.   Fred Heppner (16:59) You know, excellent point. And what you also said earlier, just in passing was, what dentists could buy my practice. can't sell to a private dentist. I've got to sell to a DSO. ⁓ surprise, surprise. That's a myth. There are dentists who would, I can tell you right now, if you could give me your client's number, I'll buy her practice. Well, yeah, well, I mean, that's gonna, that's gonna pencil. So the, the point that I would make is know that   Kiera Dent (17:12) It is a myth.   Right? I know, me too. I'm like, actually, actually I would.   Fred Heppner (17:29) Dentists that are out there who are looking to buy really profitable practices and can meet the production goals. So there's an important aspect there. Your client's doing two and a half million in profit, five million in productivity on her own. If a person coming in to buy that won't be able to quite meet those production numbers, they may hire the client back for a year or two. The bank may want them to make sure that there's some kind of arrangement where they have some help.   But if a bank is looking at a practice that has that kind of liquidity and profitability, they'll gladly loan the money to the dentist if other measures are there because they know it's going to be paid back. So I want to dispel the myth that big practices with large productivity and big profitability are excluded from private practitioners being able to buy them. It's not true. Is it? Yeah.   Kiera Dent (18:10) Mm-hmm.   I agree. They get nervous because of the debt,   but I have somebody that I know that just bought into a $2.5 million is how much they had to bring to the table. Plus they have their student loan debt, plus they have their house debt and they were able to do it to buy into a practice. so I'm like, I think let's not assume that that's the only route. think figure out what you want and there is a buyer based on the outcome you want. I think Fred, I want to switch gears because I want to ask some questions about associates.   because I think we've kind of gone through like private practice. There's so many things like make sure you're taken care of, make sure you know where you're going. But now I want to switch gears because I think this is something I get asked all the time. And so selfishly again, welcome to curious therapy with Fred. I want to know all the pieces. This is my podcast that you get to be a part of. No, it's for all of you. ⁓ we get asked often, how do you set up a great associate buy-in? So like, how do I buy these people and how do I tether them in? I think one of the greatest, I would say   Fred Heppner (19:06) I'm listening.   Kiera Dent (19:19) stressors and like blind spots in practices and the thing that can really hurt a practice is when they have an associate that associate leaving. ⁓ And so they want to like golden handcuff these associates, but they want it to be good for both parties. What are some of those associate transitions to retain associates to get them in as partners? Is it a good idea? Is it not a good idea? And I think like we can wrap on this because I, I'm super curious of like what you recommend to help with that transition.   Fred Heppner (19:45) The   capacity for the business volume has to be there. You've got to have, not only are you working, but there's this phantom practice out there that you can't get to as the provider. And you need somebody to be able to get to that. So bringing on an associate to get to that phantom practice immediately creates incremental income, which is, to the owner of the business, very liquid.   Kiera Dent (20:03) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (20:07) The cost associated with treating extra people during the course of the day is the associate's compensation and variable cost supplies in lab. And if you're ⁓ providing can-to-can technology and your lab costs are very low, but you're producing crowns in a day, for example, and using that kind of technology, then the cost associated with treating every incremental patient and creating that revenue is very low.   we're suggesting that the team in place can handle the extra work. We don't have to hire an extra assistant or hire an extra administrative person. So given those things.   ⁓ One of the best transition plans, in my opinion, is one that has time built into it. The associate has to develop some traction. They have to generate some productivity. They have to show that they can produce the numbers. But more importantly, the outcomes are good. The treatment outcomes are successful. The patients are adapting to them. The team connects with them. This is a good relationship. As an aside, really quick, when you mention relationship business in dentistry,   I think DSOs traditionally are a transactional business. They're really focusing on the transaction, right? Private practice focuses on the relationship. Not to say that corporate dentistry doesn't focus on relationships. They're focused more so on the transactions. I might get ridiculed for that statement, but that's what I see. And that's my opinion.   Kiera Dent (21:19) I would agree.   Sure,   sure.   Fred Heppner (21:36) So back to the associate, need the associate to develop some traction. And essentially that traction comes from being in the office, seeing patients, working with the team, and ultimately getting feedback along the way. And I think that's a one to two year cycle. Will you know as a practitioner and owner of the business within the first one or two months, if the associate is working two or three days a week or four days a week, will you know, do they get along with the patients? Do they get along with the team? Yes. Will you know about treatment outcomes?   Kiera Dent (21:40) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (22:05) To some degree, yes. So early on, you'll know if this is cut bait, this is not going to work. Or yes, this person's fitting in great, primarily because they were vetted. So quick, quick retract back to how do you hire them? Go through a long process of vetting. Don't just take the first one that appears. Get to know them, make sure they're going to integrate well. I see a lot of associate plans.   work real well when the dentist knows the dentist owner knows the associate coming on board from some past experience. Great example is the dentist associate grew up in town, did an internship kind of in the office as a sterilization tech, kind of worked in the office, found out that dentistry was their passion, went to college for undergrad, went to dental school for dental degree and came back to the town to work for that dentist. Right. Okay, good. So somebody you know, ⁓   Kiera Dent (22:38) Mm-hmm.   Totally.   Fred Heppner (23:00) son of doctor, owner's best friend. So there's history there. You know, the quality of the individual. Okay. So once traction is developed during the part of that associate agreement, there's some discussion about ownership and building an understanding of how the practice works so that when time comes to be a partner and buy in, there's already some traction. There's already some traction so that if the person elects to buy the seller out,   in a couple years, then they can switch roles. But there has to be some traction. One of the things that's really perilous is thinking about jumping into a practice and being a partner right away. If you want to practice and you do two million a year, hygiene does 500, you do 1.5. I'm going to come in and I want to be a partner of yours today because I've heard how great your practice is. And you have the physical plant capacity, you have the patient capacity, and I can step right in.   If I pay you half of the value of your practice today to buy in, we can split up the medicine and supplies and drugs. can split up the equipment. We can split up the office equipment. ⁓ we can split up all the operatories, but how do we sort out the patients? Because come Monday morning, say we close tomorrow, Friday, come Monday morning, I need to have in my schedule, the ability to generate half of the revenue in the business so that I can pay myself and I can pay.   to having bought in. that make sense? And that doesn't really happen easily when somebody just freshly wants to buy in as a partner. So fast forwarding to partnerships, which I hope we get a chance to talk a little bit about today, that associate has to be in that process, in that business for a period of time. And that traction needs to get up so that they've got productivity under their belt. And again, going back to what we talked about about banks,   Kiera Dent (24:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   I agree.   Fred Heppner (24:59) they wanna see that that productivity is there, that they'll be able to generate it because they wanna make sure that they get the loan paid for. And a really good associate agreement has, in my opinion, good restrictive covenants, not to compete, not to solicit patients or staff. ⁓ In some states, that's not allowed. The FTC voted that associate agreements or employment agreements should not have restrictive covenants, but there's no legislation yet that has actually mandated that.   Kiera Dent (25:05) Totally.   Fred Heppner (25:26) So keep in mind that it's probably not appropriate to think that you'll be able to limit somebody's ability to work. Now for them to essentially buy your practice, for example, and you as a, agreement have a restrictive covenant that you will agree to that's different because somebody paid you good and valuable consideration money for you not to compete against them because they bought your business in an employment agreement. It's a little different.   Kiera Dent (25:49) Mm-hmm.   Great.   Fred Heppner (25:56) So if a dentist comes and works for another dentist who owns the business, and after a couple of months, it's just not gonna work out, they're not gonna have enough connection with the patient base to solicit patients or solicit staff or the team. They won't. So would it matter if there was a restrictive covenant in that initial agreement? Probably not.   because after a couple months, if they've alienated patients and alienated staff and they're not very good at dentistry, you want them out of there anyway, forget about the restrictive covenant, they could go work for somebody else close by. It's probably the same thing that'll happen.   Kiera Dent (26:36) I think it's really wise because I think so many offices hire an associate, but they're so scared to move them along in two months. I think that was wise advice you listed. It is so much easier to move them on in two months than it is to keep them for six months, eight months, 10 months, and then realize their dentistry or their team connection or their patient connections not there. so ⁓ it's, it's be very intentional within those first 90 days and make sure that this will be a long-term fit. ⁓ You can see it in two months.   Fred Heppner (27:01) So how does this,   you can, I'm sure you can. How does this sound? For the first six months of an associate agreement, maybe you don't have quite a good background, deep background about that individual, but you feel that they would be good in the practice. They come recommended by their instructors at university, at dental school. was highly, someone was highly recommended. How about a single page,   six month agreement that says you come to work for me, I will pay you this. And if you want to go, you can go. If I feel you need to go, I'm going to release you. It's an at will agreement, no restrictive covenants, nothing in it that locks anybody down. Because again, what I mentioned earlier is how much traction can you generate really in one or two, three, four months, because you'll know after four or five months that this is somebody really want to lock in at six months, develop a really strong, well-written attorney reviewed.   employment agreement that has restrictive covenants that has specific on how to redo cases in case they need to be done at the end of the employment agreement. Right. What do you think? I mean, does that give that give the opportunity?   Kiera Dent (28:08) Sure.   I think,   I mean, I like it. think that the devil's advocate in me would say, I'm not sure that the ⁓   millennial Gen Z generation coming through would say yes to six months. I think that they're looking for more security. They're looking for more guarantees. They come in with a lot more debt and a lot more risk that I am really curious. As a business, I think it's freaking brilliant. As on the other side, I'm curious, would you be able to get candidates that would want to come or is it too risky of an offer?   Fred Heppner (28:43) You mean,   yeah, do you mean the associate dentist coming on board is thinking more about themselves rather than the practice?   Kiera Dent (28:52) I think with the associate offers that are given currently, ⁓ I think agreed. It does show that they're thinking about it, but I also feel for a practice making sure that they're competitive with offers. I don't love having to be ⁓ like with hygienists. I don't want to have to go chase them, but you have to at least be competitive with other people in the market. So I think I agree with you. I just feel for practices making sure that maybe   Fred Heppner (29:05) ⁓   I understand what you're saying.   Kiera Dent (29:19) you are so competitive with other people and offer. So you do get the candidates, but you can have some of these ideas within like that I think would make you even maybe more attractive. So maybe it's a year that we're offering, but like, Hey, in the first six months, there's no restriction. There's no nothing. We add that in in six months. So that way you are competitive with other people. Cause I think associates, they need that security and I'm watching more and more come through. I mean, they're walking out with one mil plus 2 million in debt. Like, so I think that   I think to be competitive with others, might need to be a possibly. This is my hallucination that could possibly just make sure you're competitive.   Fred Heppner (29:53) Well, well, no, you're   so you're right on you're in a you're in another section of what the employment agreement might look like called compensation and benefits. I'm looking at just the period of time that you would be that a dentist would be employed in the practice to determine if it's a right fit for them and if it's a right fit for the practice and if it's a right fit for the patients and the team. Compensation can say exactly what you were saying. Now,   Kiera Dent (30:16) Right.   Fred Heppner (30:22) Unfortunately, it isn't the responsibility of the practice to provide for somebody who is unproven in their debt or to satisfy their lifestyle requirements. Yes, they're competing with other organizations that are offering salary, health insurance, vision, life insurance policies, all of those benefits that come along with big corporations. However,   It's a private practice. And the sooner I think that dentists who are coming on as associates know the intricacies and the difficulties of running a business and also the rewards that come with it, they would understand better how those arrangements are made. And I've seen compensation programs set up where it's the greater of over two weeks, a compensation per day or a percentage of a certain amount over a certain amount of productivity. So you can meet those requirements. can kind of meet.   Kiera Dent (31:15) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (31:16) Kind of need halfway in between.   Kiera Dent (31:18) Yeah, and I think that that's where I was saying of I feel like making sure that you're meeting in the middle. I love the idea of being able to protect like, you're right, like not being stuck in this with someone who's not working out and getting stuck, I think is actually something that happens all the time with associates. ⁓ And so I think like, Fred, it was such a fun like,   chat about us. I agree, we need to chat more partnerships because now it's like, okay, we've got these associates, we've got some ideas on it. We've heard about figuring out where we want to go and how we're going to be able to get there and needing to think about our future life and how when we need to transition, you said the three to five years, I think looking for like, what do need to do to be able to buy a practice? If I want to buy a practice, what do need to get? Then we talked about like the DSO offers coming for private practices, and how to assess that through Fred.   And then we moved into associates. So Fred, like that was such a like smorgasbord of topics, which I love. And I think definitely reconnecting because I think there's the next step is like, how do we bring in these associates for partners if we want them? How can we build a legacy practice? That's not necessarily just the DSO. So I'd love to get you back on the podcast and chat partnerships and like alternative transitions beyond, but gosh, Fred, such a fun podcast today.   Fred Heppner (32:10) It was fun.   I am   happy to do it anytime. I appreciate what you do for dentistry. So I'll absolutely support you and be glad to do it.   Kiera Dent (32:36) Thank you. Well, Fred, as we wrap up today, were there any last thoughts you had to give to the listeners? And of course, ArizonaTransitions.com, ArizonaTransitions.gmail. If you're looking to transition or associates or what do I do or hey, Fred, I just need help. But any last thoughts you have as we wrap up today?   Fred Heppner (32:52) Yeah, I think   I tell you a funny quip that I think resonates with most people that I talk to. Dentists are excellent at curing dental disease, at diagnosing conditions and recommending treatments and working with patients to get them well. And, ⁓ coming into an event like purchasing a practice or selling a practice where they've never done it before. They don't have the experience or the education.   going in to understand what to do. I would encourage them to get advice and guidance from a great team. ⁓ I have a deal with my dentist. Mike Smith is brilliant. He has a practice called the biting edge here in Phoenix and he's brilliant. And he and I have an agreement. I don't do my own dentistry.   And he doesn't do his own practice transition stuff or practice management stuff. He relies on me to do that because they're in the middle. meet. So I want him to cure my dental conditions and make sure I'm in the optimum dental health that I could be. And I'm to make sure that I provide the services to him so that if he's looking to acquire a practice or merge an office into his, or figure out how the next plan would be for his practice growth or his transition, that he's going to sit down with me because he understands that that's my expertise and he.   he benefits from.   Kiera Dent (34:15) Yeah, I love that. That's such a good way to look at it. Let's sit in our lanes. Let's do what we're really good at and not try to be a one-stop shop. I think that that's brilliant, Fred. And I feel like for all those looking for the transitions for what do we do? How can I do it? Reach out, Fred. I think you're a wealth of knowledge. You've been in it for a long time and just truly so grateful to have you on the podcast today.   Fred Heppner (34:36) It's my pleasure. Absolutely. Have a great day. Talk to you soon. Bye here.   Kiera Dent (34:39) Awesome. Thank you. And thank you,   Fred. Thank you, all of you. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

* The ritual humiliation white genocide slide show!* That's not really true. But it doesn't really matter, does it?* Trolling with refugees* That Mandela picture MM mentioned…* Uncle Paul * “Well do you DENOUNCE that language? Huh? Huh? Did you even say thank you??”* The big, not-so-beautiful bill* The trillion dollar dome* Gaza and the “14,000”* Our Original Sin and Korean Robert* When did he lose it?* That Christie clip is actually six years old. But here it is. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.wethefifth.com/subscribe

Andrew and Sean talk about hiring tools, positioning MetaMonster, and Andrew's struggles to increase his publishing velocity. Meanwhile, Sean is slammed with inbound after RSA, is putting project management systems in place for Margins, and just got a pool table!  Links:Andrew's Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean's Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/Apply to Miscreants: https://tally.so/r/nrWOlNFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.Transcript:00:01.27SeanWhat's up?00:02.35AndrewNot much, just digging through job applications for this senior product designer role.00:07.89SeanYeah. Yeah.00:09.34Andrewit00:09.45SeanHow's that going? Do you like it?00:10.30AndrewIt really makes me want to build an ATS.00:12.75SeanYeah.00:14.07Andrewi I looked at Home Run again, and00:15.97SeanUh-huh.00:20.47Andrewit's gone up to, like, their base price starts at, I think, $90 a month or something like that. and JJ has essentially built a, an Excel Google sheets, ATS, uh, which is solid.00:34.46AndrewIt's, it's not bad at all.00:34.71SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.00:36.55AndrewI think the email automation stuff she's been trying to do isn't working yet. then I have spent a chunk of today trying to figure out how to run a script inside of Google sheets that'll,00:50.78Andrewintegrate with an AI detection API because so many of these applications are so clearly just copy and pasted from ChatGPT and not actual applications.01:00.49SeanI see. I see.01:02.97AndrewYeah.01:03.27SeanYou can use GPT for sheets.01:03.42AndrewWhich01:06.08SeanAnd then...01:07.03Andrewdo you think how how good is ChatGPT at detecting itself?01:12.38SeanI think if you give it a rubric, it it's good. Because, like...01:15.84AndrewI don't know if I know enough to give it a good rubric.01:18.86Seancan give you my, like... You know, it's not a rubric. It's just like, hey, generate this blog post. Don't use these words. Don't use this phrasing. Don't...01:27.51AndrewYeah, and you could try to kind of reverse that rubric.01:30.27SeanYeah, yeah.01:30.85AndrewYeah.01:31.58SeanGod, that's funny.01:33.39AndrewYeah. And, like, there's there's, like, a small part of me that is, like, well, you know, I don't...01:35.17SeanYeah.01:42.50AndrewI don't have a problem with you using ChatGPT to help you write your application. But if you're clearly just like, if it's 100% copy and pasted from ChatGPT, then I have no way of knowing if it's legit information or not, or if you're just completely bullshitting.01:53.80SeanYeah.01:58.15AndrewLike, I got several answers to the same question that seemed almost identical.01:58.74SeanYeah.02:04.19AndrewAnd I was like, hmm, okay, so this isn't a real life experience you had then probably.02:08.60SeanYeah, I bet. That's so funny. I bet there's like apps now also like apply with AI like one click and then it just generates that stuff.02:16.65AndrewOh, I'm sure there are. yeah Yeah, so I mean, I think part of it is...02:20.17SeanHow would you build an ATS differently? Let's build a bit sauce.02:27.31AndrewLike, I think it's an area where I would try to compete on price because ATS systems tend to be pretty fucking expensive. And so I think if you tried to be a fairly minimal, simple version that was at more of an entry level price, I think that's like step one.02:43.52AndrewNow, the shitty part is to build even a simple ATS. You're basically building a CRM, an email marketing system, and a form builder all in one. and like kind of a website builder too.02:54.26SeanYeah. Yeah.02:56.31AndrewSo it's it's not a simple product.02:59.09SeanHmm.02:59.43AndrewSo I totally understand why they're expensive. But I still think ah ah most of that is sunk cost, not like ongoing cost.03:10.24SeanYeah. Definitely03:10.80AndrewI don't think they're that expensive to operate. Just you know there's a high barrier to entry to build you the base features you need.03:14.24Seannot.03:20.98SeanHmm.03:22.20AndrewSo I think I'd do some of that. i think I would also, think it could be really interesting. Like I've always been interested in salary transparency and stuff like that.03:31.98AndrewSo I think it could be interesting to try to do some like, try to talk people into doing some data sharing around salaries and stuff like that.03:40.80SeanMm-hmm.03:41.87Andrewon both sides of the equation. i think it would be cool to build in, know, some, I remember when we, I know,03:52.68Andrewwhen we were trying to care about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and like learn about it, part of what people said you should do is like serve like conduct anonymous surveys to determine you know try to determine if there's what bias there is in your application process and like you know some people say you should hide names from applications and stuff like that and i yeah that kind of stuff04:25.09SeanYou could do a lessannoyingATS.com. Yeah.04:27.83AndrewYeah, like I think, and that kind of stuff was often hidden behind like really high enterprise prices.04:28.44Seancome04:33.54AndrewAnd so just making that stuff more widely available, offering good rubrics, like good default rubrics for like, here are good application questions. Like here's some templates you can choose from and here's a good rubric to like help you reduce bias in your process and doing some different stuff like that.04:49.85Seanyeah04:51.78Andrewthen just trying to make it balance that with also making it reasonably quick to eliminate people who clearly aren't a good fit and then like narrow your list down because those are the two kind of competing priorities for good hiring managers. is like On the one hand, you have a massive stack of applications to get through normally.05:11.51AndrewAnd on the other hand, you want to be respectful of people and like you you want to get through those in a reasonable amount of time while also giving people their due.05:15.57SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.05:21.64AndrewAnd so trying to walk that balance with thoughtful tools.05:21.73Seanand05:24.68Seanyeah maybe like hard filters and soft filters as you're going through applicants it'd be cool like you i mean if it's cheaper it's better for smb and then the templates make a lot of sense because i mean hiring is hard your first hundred times i'm pretty sure especially because there's differ...

Blade Repair Academy in Tennessee offers comprehensive blade repair training programs for technicians. Alfred Crabtree, Founder and CEO, and Sheryl Weinstein from SkySpecs highlight the importance of technician competency, hands-on experience, and standardization in the wind industry. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Allen Hall: Alfred and Sheryl, welcome to the program. Sheryl Weinstein: Thanks. Allen Hall: So we're in Dunlap, Tennessee, not too far from Nashville, uh, and also close to. Chattanooga Chattanooga, and we're in the Smoky Mountains ish region. We're Alfred Crabtree: no, we're, we're, you could consider it Appalachia for sure. Sure. Okay. Uh, we're on the, in the valley called the Seche Valley, uh, which splits the Cumberland Plateau. So we're, we're in a valley and we have hills a thousand feet above us here. Yeah. Either way. It's beautiful. Joel Saxum: Yeah. It's a great drive in here. Alfred Crabtree: Yeah. It's a unique place. Yeah. Allen Hall: And we're at Blade Repair Academy, which, uh, if you're not familiar with Blade Repair Academy, you should be. Uh, because a lot of the good training that happens in the United States actually happens to play repair, repair Care blade, repair academy. Uh, yeah, it's been a long week at uh, OMS this week and we got the introduction today. This is the first time we've been on site. That's right. And, uh, we wanted to see all the cool things that are happening [00:01:00] here. And it really comes down to technician training competency. Working with blades, working with tools, knowing what you're doing up tower when you're on the blade, which is hard to train. It's really hard to train, and both you and Cheryl have a ton of experience being up on blades and repairing blades and scarfing and doing all the critical features that have to happen to make blades work today. It's a tough training regimen. There's a lot to it and a lot of subtleties that don't always get transferred over from teachers to students unless you have. Done it for a number of years. You wanna kind of just walk through the philosophy of Blade Repair Academy? Alfred Crabtree: Yes. The, uh, you've, you've outlined quite well some of the issues. The environment where we work is very hard to take a ti the time to put somebody through a training regimen. We're so constrained by weather windows and then. You know, even if the weather's nice, lightning can come, wind [00:02:00] speeds can cut off your workday. So production, production, production is what's important. And Cheryl and I both come from the rope access method. And in the rope access method, 95% of the time you're up there alone. And if you're up there and you're producing, you've got your blinders on. Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Alfred Crabtree: And you're not ready to share with somebody else what to do. Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Alfred Crabtree: With the basket or platform, you can have two even three people up on Blade, but it still has all these constraints of get the job done, get the job done. There's a lot of stress up there. And having the bandwidth to take on new information or to challenge some preconceived notions or try, that's not the place to do it. So knowing that. Blade Repair Academy is built so that we have an environment that simulates all of the up tower stuff without being up tower. And you're gonna have the time you need to invest in your learning without consequences. Right. So it's a very much a [00:03:00] about creating the right environment to uptake the new information.

Kiera is joined by Fred Heppner of Arizona Transitions to talk through dental practice transitions. Their conversation includes when you should start thinking about your transition, what the economic outcomes will be any way you go, what a private indemnity group is (and how it can help), and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcrpt Kiera Dent (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today I am so excited to welcome an incredible guest to our podcast, Fred Heppner. He's with Arizona Transitions. And honestly, I feel like right now in today's world, dentists need more than ever guidance and direction of like, what do we do? How do I transition my practice? What am I looking at for retirement? Do I go the DSO route? Do I do the legacy practice route? I just feel like there's so much confusion. And so trying to cut through that noise,   Fred is incredible. We met him and I just said, you know what? He's incredible. And so he said for him, it's whether a person is buying a dental practice or putting a dental practice up for sale, Fred truly can help you successfully navigate through that transition. He deals with complete transitions of dental offices and also practices securing a partner or an associate, which that is such a hard thing. Like, how do we do this? There's a million ways to slice and dice that pie because he's worked with so many different aspects of the dental industry. His experience allows him   to ensure that all parties are satisfied with the transition. So I'm super jazzed. Fred, welcome to the show today. How are you?   Fred Heppner (01:02) I'm   doing great. Thank you, Kiera. I gotta meet this guy. Who is this guy, Fred?   Kiera Dent (01:06) Well,   here he is, if I'm not mistaken. But truly, I'm so honored to have you on the podcast. When our team met you, they were like, Kiera, he's got to get on the podcast. And so just truly excited because like I said, this is a zone that I get excited to geek out on because we deal with it in consulting all the time. Our clients are constantly asking us like, what should we do? They want to bring on partners, they want to bring on associates, they want a retention model. ⁓ They want to know like,   I feel like your dental practice can be your greatest asset or your greatest burden, depending upon how you set it up. And so really being able to just dive in with you. And like I said, I think there's so much noise right now. The dentists are like, it's almost like ostrich in the sand. Like, I just don't want to even think about it. I'm going to put my head in the sand. I'm not going to pay attention. But the reality is like, let's educate, let's learn. Let's bring experts in like yourself. So that way dentists can feel more confident making the decision. I don't think it has to be scary. I don't think it's be daunting. We just need to be educated and.   Fred Heppner (01:41) Yeah, I agree.   No.   Kiera Dent (02:05) and hear wisdom and then do what feels right. So Fred, that was my intro, but anything else you want to add of how you got here or, mean, I'm just excited to riff with you today.   Fred Heppner (02:14) I appreciate the opportunity and I can tell you even from what you just said back in, back in 1983, when I started in the business of dentistry, the interesting thing was I didn't hear very often, Hey, what's your transition plan? Because oftentimes dentists were really just going to build a practice and then that was going to be their retirement and they would sell their practice and retire. Financial planners were, were non-existent to a large degree. And it was early on that I heard somebody and it really resonated with me.   They asked a young dentist who had just taken ownership or started a practice, when are you going to hang up your hand piece? And the dentist kind of, I just got started. What do mean? When am going to hang it up? I got, you know, I got 20, 30 years here. No, no, no. The moment you take ownership of a business, you want to consider what your transition plan out would be early on so that it doesn't spring it on.   Kiera Dent (02:51) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (03:09) We may   talk here later on about, what happens if you're not there? What happens if there's an injury or disability or illness and you can't practice dentistry? Now what? And let's consider talking about that maybe later on. So early in the game, it's appropriate to have some kind of idea of some kind of transition plan. Transition plan doesn't mean I have to value my business. I have to procure a buyer act to make sure that financially qualified. I have to get a contract. I have to get a lease. That's not a transition plan. In simple, think.   Kiera Dent (03:21) Yeah.   Fred Heppner (03:38) The transition plan is what do you want to do when you sell your practice, when you move on from dentistry? And you know, as well as I do, you have clients who have been in dentistry and practice for 25, 30, 35, 40 years. And if they stopped doing something that they've been doing for three decades, what are they going to do with their time? And that's, that's really high on the scale of importance in a transition plan, because ultimately they're going to sit back and say,   Kiera Dent (03:53) Mm hmm. Yeah.   Fred Heppner (04:08) I don't know that I want to be home. I don't know that my spouse wants me to be home all day. And you have to think about these things. So it's much more than I have a practice to sell. I've got a purchase price. I have to figure out how I'm going to sell everything and my staff and my patients and so on. It's more than that. So I think in the initial phases of somebody considering what's my transition plan that can pull their head out of the sand and look at a spot and say, what do I really want to do if I   Kiera Dent (04:12) Totally.   Fred Heppner (04:37) If I don't do this, what will I do? And then feels a whole bunch of other questions into the play. Number one, how much am I going to make from selling my practice? What are the economic outcomes? How much in proceeds will I have after all the fees associated with selling the business and the taxes associated with paying for the proceeds? Now, what have I got left? What is that? What does that number look like? Well, I have no idea. Well, I need to find out. That's why I have a business.   Kiera Dent (05:05) Mm-hmm.   Gosh, Fred, I am so grateful you brought this up because honestly, feel like so I don't know my financial advisor teases me all the time. He's incredible. And he's like, Kiera, you are the person that has every exit strategy. You're like, all right, so what's going to happen if this happens or what happens? And I love to play this game with my husband. I'm like, okay, so if there was a fire in our house in this location, how are we going to get out? Or if we had this, because I feel like when you have almost that North star, especially in your life of   Okay, this is how much I want when I wanna retire. This is when I wanna retire. This is like you said, if I want to, what am I gonna do when this doesn't, like when I'm no longer doing dentistry? Because you're right, I actually, ⁓ working at Midwestern ⁓ University in Arizona, I know a lot of dental students and I know a lot of dentists now. And ⁓ I've been gone from Midwestern for about now, about nine years. And ⁓ in those nine years, which does not seem that long, it's not even been a decade, ⁓   Fred Heppner (05:50) Mm-hmm.   Kiera Dent (06:05) There have been students who have gotten a disability. There have been students who have gotten cancer and can no longer practice dentistry. There are students that have already sold to DSOs. And I'm like, their life looks so different. The student I'm thinking about who ended up getting pretty sick and had to leave, thank goodness he had his ⁓ insurance on him, his disability insurance. But like when I met him,   there was no way that we ever would have thought like four or five years into practice. I went and saw him in his practice and now like he's not doing dentistry anymore. And so I think Fred, it's one of those things where I help him pray every dentist who's listening gets to work until they're 80, 90, however long they want to go that they get to practice their craft. but I think what you're talking about of let's think of what would I do if I couldn't do this anymore, whether by choice or whether by life, ⁓ and then be able to make decisions because I feel like   When you stair step it back, you're able to actually navigate today way more confidently than if you don't have a plan. And I think that gives you more security than anything else. ⁓   Fred Heppner (07:08) Amen. And if your practice   is stable, strong, producing a good profit and you are able to not only retire debt, but start to put away for your own retirement, you are much more in a direction of control also. So retirement may not be a year or a number. It sometimes is an event because injury, disability, illness, sudden death have no discrimination. It can happen to anybody.   And if there isn't a plan in place for that, which I would recommend dentists look into, ⁓ if they don't have them in their community, forming private indemnity groups, disability coverage groups, where if a group of 16, 17 dentists that per oculi are in the same community and know each other and respect each other would agree that if anything were to happen, the group would get activated and it would cover the practice a day at a time on rotation for all the membership.   until the practitioner returns from the injury or disability or the practice is sold because the dentist is incapacitated and can't come back. As a side note, I want to mention to you that I do this for six different groups here in the Valley in Phoenix where I live. And there are anywhere from about 12 to 22 dentists in each of those groups.   So if you're listeners or if anybody in the A team wants to know more about forming groups, I'm happy to pay it forward, provide it for you. It's important. It's really something that dentists, we're invincible. Nothing's going to happen to us, especially when they're 30 years old and they just graduated from Midwestern and they bought their first practice and they're fired up. And it's like, they are looking at nothing other than growth, development, coaching. They're not even thinking if something were to happen to them. So.   Kiera Dent (08:38) Mm-hmm.   hope. Right?   Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (08:57) Just as an aside,   let's you and I make sure that we talk more. And for any dentists who want to develop those kinds of groups, it is invaluable. And there are tons of stories that I could impart to you and impart to anybody who's willing to listen about dentists that have a mishap. ⁓ Jim Jorgensen here in Phoenix ⁓ owns Squaw Peak Dental for years. He was in Vegas with his wife, Terry, midnight. They were up in the hotel room and he flatlined. He had a massive heart attack.   Kiera Dent (09:15) Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (09:28) She kept him going until the paramedics arrived. He survived. We activated the group. We covered his practice for three months. He came back, continued to practice. A year later, he sold it. So he couldn't have done that. He would have lost that asset and lost the value that that asset has on the open market if that group hadn't been in place. So.   Kiera Dent (09:39) incredible.   Thank   I will. love that. And thank you for sharing that. And that's something I didn't even know existed. And I, I don't, I'm just very pro. Like, I remember when I was filling out our trust and I had to write my will and I was not very old, still like in my thirties, it was really weird. And it made me feel icky. And when you said the phrase earlier of like death, disability, illness, that has no discrimination. It hit me in my core of you're right. Like we do feel like we're invincible, but the reality is those three are hanging   out at any moment and we have no idea when they're going to strike us or our family or someone that we know. As icky as that is. And so I feel like it's like, let's just get, let's get prepared. Like when I had to figure out what's going to happen to me, if I ever am incapacitated and I called my brother, who's my power of attorney. I said, okay, this is what I want. Are you willing to do it? But now I don't like if it happens great. Like he knows, I know there's a plan in place and as much as I would hate for it to happen, there is a plan that's like, and I feel   Gosh, maybe I'm just a selfish egotistical human over here. It does give me a lot of empowerment to know that I know if something were to happen to me, things are good. And I will also say my whole team hates it, but I have an entire death plan of if Kiera Dent dies, I haven't made it so sweet that they want to kill me off. So like, that's my, that's my caveat. Like, let's not make it that good. But there's an entire plan because I realized...   If I don't have this plan in place, if things aren't able to be transferred quickly to people that I trust and that people need to execute on, this company would die and we would not be able to serve all the people that we have. And so as, as weird and as eerie as it is, I feel like Fred, there's so much empowerment that can happen because it's no longer scary. Just like getting an operations manual, just like getting all your systems in your practice in case someone leaves. I feel like it's the same thing for your business in your life. So Fred, like that's a great tip. And I think people should reach out and definitely connect with you.   Fred Heppner (11:42) maybe   for another future podcast. Coming to an A-Team podcast near you,   Kiera Dent (11:44) Like,   I mean, hey, I'm here for it.   Fred Heppner (11:50) I don't know.   It's really important. People take it for granted. And it's interesting because the people that are in the groups that I have and sponsor just sitting back and say to themselves, why wouldn't anybody not be involved in this type of group? So good for future.   Kiera Dent (12:05) That's helpful. Okay. All right. And Fred, just like, mean,   we'll, share it at the end too, but if people are interested, how do they connect with you? We'll just put it in the middle too. So people have the info and then of course we're going to continue on.   Fred Heppner (12:16) ArizonaTransitions.com is my website. ArizonaTransitions@gmail.com is my email. Best way to reach you.   Kiera Dent (12:23) And I'm sure people are   questioning, you work only in Arizona or do you work outside of Arizona just to clear that up for our listeners? Okay.   Fred Heppner (12:29) Good. Time for a little backstory. So   back in 1983, when I started in dentistry, I was a, I was a business coach, similar to how you operate and develop business systems and coaching and training for dentists and their teams to grow and essentially develop profitable and enjoyable practices. I did that for about 20 years. And then about 22 years ago, I really saw a void in Phoenix where I live. moved here in 1995.   of the transition space. just didn't see dental practice transitions being done with integrity, in my opinion. They could have been, but I saw some of the aftermath because dentists would call me and say, hey, I just bought this practice. Can you help me? It's a mess. So I would go in and assist them. Well, slowly but surely, I saw an opportunity to be able to jump into the transitions realm. So I jumped deep into ⁓ classroom study and book work on how to do business evaluations correctly.   Kiera Dent (13:04) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (13:26) the International Society of Business Analysts was my education forum. ⁓ Casey Conrad, who is brilliant, he taught me how to do business valuations correctly. And by the way, he writes the curriculum for the organizations that provide accreditation to people who want to be a business analyst. So I'm learning from the guy who teaches everybody. And then I started studying large contract negotiations.   Kiera Dent (13:45) Mm-hmm. Amazing.   Fred Heppner (13:52) As I developed that understanding and saw that there were things that I could contribute to, I jumped into that realm and became more of ⁓ a transition specialist here in the greater Phoenix area. Well, along the way, I came upon a group called American Dental Sales, which is a large cooperative of 40 dental practice transition specialists, 23 different companies. They cover all 50 states and they had a void in Arizona that they needed to fill. So they approached me and said, we'd like you to come on board.   ⁓ I then met a guy named Hi Smith, who really was one of the preeminent dental practice brokers in the country. ⁓ He was in Naples, Florida. He had a place in Oregon, so he kind of commuted periodically. But Hi was very, very well regarded and still is. He's retired now. Hi was the transition specialist for the Pride Institute, a very well regarded practice management company out of California. And for 35 years.   Kiera Dent (14:44) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (14:50) They referred all the business nationwide to High to develop any kind of transition plan or valuation or partnership or associate ship or practice sale. Well, he was a member of ADS and he actually, I want to say he took me under his wing to some degree because we just became very good friends and he became a really significant mentor of mine.   I fell ill and said, I'm not gonna be able to do this any longer, so you're gonna take over my book of business. and by the way, you're also gonna start doing seminars for the Pride Institute. And I'm gonna introduce you to the people over there so that when they need help, like I've been giving them for the last 30 years, you'll take over. So as a result, we were doing seminars all around the country. So four to five times a year, we'd be in Denver, Boston, Seattle, Orlando, Dallas, Chicago, Philadelphia, you name it.   Kiera Dent (15:30) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (15:43) So people that would come to those meetings were Pride disciples, clients, and they would ask me to help them with their transition. So that became more of a establishing services for dentists that are outside of Arizona, not necessarily creating a footprint in each of those territories. The Pride Institute was purchased by Spear Practice Solutions about 10 or 12 years ago.   Kiera Dent (16:08) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (16:09) So I got dragged kicking and screaming over to Spear and developed a really good relationship with the track practice growth partners at Spear and also Amy Morgan, who was the CEO at Pride out still with Spear. So that's the backstory to tell you that I've done transitions in 26 different States. And it's very easy for me to help provide consultation and guidance for transitions really anywhere.   Kiera Dent (16:12) Thank   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Awesome.   Fred Heppner (16:39) Florida, as an example, Florida requires a person to be a commercial real estate broker to broker business assets. So I have colleagues in Florida that I refer to. And with my affiliation with ADS, I have boots on the ground in pretty much every territory that if I don't think I can provide value to the client, I simply connect it with the people in my group and everything gets worked right.   Kiera Dent (17:04) That's awesome.   That's amazing. And it's such a fun story.   mean, I think our our paths have crossed on probably several levels. One of my business coaches is former pride. And as soon as you said that, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I bet we both know Liz. I'm sure we and all the different pieces. But I love that because I figured Arizona transitions might some of the listeners might feel like you can't help them and assist them. So I really wanted to clear that up that it's all across the nation in different areas. So all right, Fred, let's dive into like walk us through I know you've got some   Fred Heppner (17:11) Yeah, chances are.   yeah, ⁓ yeah, absolutely.   Kiera Dent (17:36) points.   I know you've got some things of like, what is the transition plan? Like how do doctors get to that level? What do they need to do if they're transitioning? Now again, this doesn't mean you're selling. Right now, I think there's a lot of options to sell, but also like prepping in case life, one of those three mysterious, hopefully never coming to you, like orbs is how feel. I feel like they're like floating around and hopefully they never strike. But what do we do? What are kind of the steps? What are some of the things you have for that?   Fred Heppner (17:56) Yeah, yeah.   Well,   I think the first step in any kind of relationship that I build with a client, it would be a true consultation. And in that sense, it's tell me what your ideal retirement plan or transition plan would look like. You've worked your practice for a number of years. At some point in time, you're going to decide that you will retire from the practice of dentistry. What do you want to do? What does that look like?   What would you be involved with? I'll give you a quick example. Jerry Cox, who's a dentist in Old Scottsdale here in Phoenix, called me and said, I'd like you to help me sell my practice. And I said, I'd be honored, thank you. So I went and saw him and we put together the plan and I asked him the question, what do you want to do? What do you want to do after you retire from practice? says, well, I like to do sculpture. And I said, really, Fred?   Kiera Dent (18:56) you   Fred Heppner (18:57) What have you done? kind of work have you done? He says, well, let me show you. He showed me pictures of the statue of Heather Farr. Heather Farr was an amateur golfer 25, 30 years ago or so, who played at ASU, who was an enormous success, played on the LPGA tour, and ultimately ⁓ developed breast cancer and died. Heather's statue ⁓ was sitting at Karsten Golf Course down near ASU, which they've now plowed.   Kiera Dent (19:20) Wow.   Fred Heppner (19:27) and also at Greyhawk Golf Club. And Jerry sculpted that statue. And I got goosebumps right now. Anyway, so as an example, Jerry has a studio at his house. He said, as soon as I sell, I'm doing that. So the point is in the transition planning phase, know what you want to do. Know what you will occupy your time. If it's turn.   Kiera Dent (19:33) Wow. Yeah.   So Fred, I'm gonna just like ask questions right here because, and   I'm gonna talk for myself. So guys, like this is my own therapy session. So thank you for being a part and a fly on the wall. Like sometimes we don't know. ⁓ So like I feel I'm very much, I know I wanna retire. I know I want more free time, ⁓ but I literally sit here and this, it's like, know how you think about like how time truly never ends. And if you think about like too hard, it actually creeps you out. Like that's kinda how I feel about like retiring of like,   Well, I know I don't want to keep working this hard. Like I don't want to be putting in as many hours, but I still love the impact. I still love the legacy, but I don't quite know what that looks like. And I feel like a lot of times people in their thirties, in their twenties, in their forties, I think as you get later on in life, you probably have more of that clear picture. But what about for those that are very fresh, like that truly maybe some people do, maybe I'm, maybe I'm the only one on my own planet. I don't think I am, but like, what do you do if you don't know what you want to do?   Fred Heppner (20:46) You're not alone. So good. part of the time, what did Chelsea, what did Kelsey Grammer say? I'm listening. So the, the, the idea is that there are portions of people that don't know. There are some that are very clear on what they want to do and there's some that are kind of, well, I'm not sure. My, my recommendation would be, think about it. Then don't answer right now, but think about it because I want you to know what you will be doing when.   Kiera Dent (20:48) Thank you. Thanks for my therapy today, Fred. I appreciate it. Thank you.   Hahaha ⁓   Fred Heppner (21:16) you stop doing this and it may change over time. It may kind of morph into, my God, I didn't know that I really enjoyed painting. Okay. Then, then that's maybe what you might do because as you retire from the proceeds of your sale of your business, you'll, you'll build out a studio in your home or in the Casita or wherever it is. So it, it's okay that you may not know. It's okay that a person may not know what they want to do, but it's important to start thinking about it.   Kiera Dent (21:26) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (21:47) And then we can kind of move into the rest of the, ⁓ the rest of the questions, which I would say, is it a year that you'd like to finish working? Some dentists may want to finish when they're 55. Some may want to work until they're 65. Some may want to finish working when they're 50 or it might be a number. My investment portfolio has to be at $10 million liquid, not including asset hard assets like home.   vacation home, cars, anything like that, boats, whatever, ⁓ but that the liquid assets have a certain number because then I know through my financial planner, because he did a wealth timeline, another side note, right, Kiera? ⁓ He said that if you keep doing what you're doing and you retire at this age and you pull in social security and you have this mandatory required distributions from your portfolio,   Kiera Dent (22:16) Mm-hmm.   Right? Exactly.   Fred Heppner (22:41) you'll be able to have this much money when you're 99. So, and that's just a mathematical spreadsheet that most good financial planners have. And I highly recommend it for anybody who's in business, who's developing a portfolio for retirement. So it may not be, I don't know yet. Okay, good. Well think about it and know that I may circle back during our relationship and ask you, have you given much thought? Do know what you're going to do?   Kiera Dent (22:45) Mm-hmm.   Fred Heppner (23:09) Early on, is it important? Not as much as when it's a three to five year window. When it's a three to five year window from retirement, then we want to talk more significantly about it. Because that will be a good...   Kiera Dent (23:23) got it because that's what I was curious I was like should people be talking   when they're in their 20s 30s or is it something we're like start to think about it I know Ryan and I from Dentist advisors we we talk shop about this quite often of like there I mean there are studies that show that when you retire you actually start to atrophy in life and ⁓ there isn't as much of a purpose and so we talk often of like how can we continue that   mental stamina, the things that are going to fulfill us, whether it's working or something else of philanthropy, like whatever is going to keep you going as a human, whether you're working in the chair or you're not, I think is important. So that's I was curious of like, really probably connecting with you three to five years before we think we might retire, but with the caveat of, hey, if something were to happen to me, what would kind of be my exit strategy? your like death list like I do, like if I die, this is what's going to happen. It's creepy, but it's awesome.   Fred Heppner (24:15) No, it's, it's creepy and it is awesome. And at the same time, it's a really good conversation to have because if we're three to five years out, then one of the first things to do is say, okay, so what's going to happen if you're not here? And that carries on to the discussion we had earlier.   Kiera Dent (24:28) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (24:31) Awesome. Thank you. And thank you, Fred. Thank you, all of you. And for all of you listening, thanks for listening. And I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

Al and Codey talk about Everafter Falls Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:10:03: Game News 00:27:20: Everafter Falls 01:30:57: Outro Links Chill Town 1.0 Of Life and Land 1.0 Grimshire Early Access Galactic Getaway “The Big Pet” Update Tiny Garden QoL Patch Dolot Town Early Access Roadmap Contact Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. My name is Al, (0:00:36) Codey: and my name is Kody. (0:00:38) Al: and we’re here today to talk about Cutscore Games. (0:00:43) Codey: A woo woo woo, ow, ow, ow. (0:00:46) Al: And also about how tired I am because I was up late watching Eurovision last night. (0:00:50) Codey: We don’t talk about that right now. (0:00:52) Codey: We did talk about it, listeners, so check that out but, (0:00:56) Codey: or maybe not, or maybe, no, check it out, check it out. (0:01:00) Codey: Here’s some of our, (0:01:00) Al: Oh yeah. (0:01:02) Codey: here’s some of our very deeply held beliefs. (0:01:08) Al: This episode, however, we’re going to talk about Ever After Falls. Well, I’m going to talk about (0:01:12) Al: Ever After Falls, and then probably Cody will ask me some questions about it, because good. (0:01:16) Codey: I’m going to ask questions about it because I did not. (0:01:20) Al: Obviously we have the news, etc, etc. Also, just a piece of housekeeping. There will be a short (0:01:30) Al: podcast for a couple of weeks after this episode. Life gets in the way, and I realized I haven’t (0:01:34) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:01:36) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:01:39) Al: actually had an episode off in the entire time that I’ve been on. So for four years it was every (0:01:45) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:01:45) Al: single two weeks without a break, and then for two and a half years it’s been every single week (0:01:51) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:01:51) Al: for that time. So I’m going to take a couple week break, and we’ll see how that goes. (0:01:55) Codey: Yeah, you you deserve it (0:01:59) Codey: Yeah for folks who might be like what I’ll hasn’t been on some episodes he still edits them (0:02:01) Al: That prepares them. The news is a lot… Again, the news is a lot of work. (0:02:05) Codey: And prepares them and does everything (0:02:10) Al: So yeah, we’ll see how that goes. Apologies if this is an important part of your week. (0:02:17) Al: You’re going to even have to deal with it for a couple of weeks. That’s life. (0:02:23) Al: So yeah, we’re going to talk about Ever After Falls. We’ve got a bunch of news. But Cody, (0:02:26) Al: what have you been up to? (0:02:28) Codey: I wrote stuff down, I should reference that. (0:02:35) Codey: I have been up to not taking my medication yesterday (0:02:38) Codey: on accident, so I’m a little crazy right now. (0:02:40) Al: - Oh no. (0:02:44) Codey: Normally I’m normal, but I’m not, that’s a joke. (0:02:47) Codey: I have been playing Breath of the Wild. (0:02:50) Codey: I have now done All But the Camel to Find Beast, (0:02:56) Codey: and I have the math. (0:02:58) Codey: Master Sword. Though I… it’s like saying that it’s it’s Eepy right now. Do I just have to leave it alone for a while? Like, like when the when it’s, you know, the Master Sword, when the Master Sword’s like… (0:03:07) Al: the divine beast? Or the master sword? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you can only use it (0:03:16) Al: until like, it’s essentially, it breaks, but differently from the other ones, and then after (0:03:19) Codey: Yeah, air clothes, yeah. (0:03:22) Al: a while it rejuvenates and it’s fine. You can do, there is a thing you can do where you’d, (0:03:29) Al: if you do the trial of the sword, it’s like a big, long, difficult challenge. And if you do that, (0:03:35) Al: than your master sardoke beach. (0:03:37) Al: I think you can charge all the time. But it is very difficult. (0:03:38) Codey: Ooh, okay, I gotta find that. Cool. Yeah, because that’s one thing. And then I went to the I went (0:03:47) Codey: to the Deku tree and he was like, sup, looks like your sword’s tired or whatever. Or like, (0:03:53) Codey: if it happens, you need to give it time to recharge. And I was like, does that mean (0:03:57) Codey: I need to like, put it back in the stone, but then I couldn’t figure out how to do that. (0:03:59) Al: No, you just wait. Just leave it where it is and it’s all good. (0:04:02) Codey: Okay, cool. Uh, yep, other than that, I’m just kind of exploring in that game. (0:04:08) Codey: So just like jump on and be like, I’m just gonna strike off in this direction. And then, oh, look, (0:04:13) Codey: my Sheikah thingy is like, there’s a shrine over here. Or like, oh, look, that’s clearly a little (0:04:20) Codey: Korhok puzzle. Yep, and I’m finally getting, I’m also like, starting to try and min max my, (0:04:22) Al: Yeah, it’s kind of what the game is for. (0:04:30) Codey: and by that, I mean, just upgrade all of my clothing. So I’ve, I’ve started a notebook of (0:04:37) Codey: what uh… (0:04:38) Codey: items I need to upgrade my clothing um yeah so i’m doing that I still play honey grove (0:04:47) Codey: is that what it’s called I don’t know it’s a little bee a little bitty game on my phone (0:04:52) Codey: yeah honey grove I still play that uh they’ve had a good update recently which is super cute (0:04:56) Codey: um this isn’t like in the news or anything it’s just it it’s been updated um (0:05:02) Codey: and yeah my one comment to them is every week they have these like weekly tasks there’s (0:05:08) Codey: ladybug that comes and you she can you can get like really good stuff if you plant stuff for her (0:05:14) Codey: I should do that right now um and uh if you don’t make it then you’re kind of just screwed (0:05:22) Codey: but sometimes I like like it’s she’s like oh I want these beefsteak tomatoes and so i’ll grow (0:05:26) Codey: like a million of them but then she won’t want any more and so then I just have grown a bunch (0:05:32) Codey: and then the next week next time she comes and she wants those like it’s just back to zero (0:05:37) Codey: which is stupid because i’m like (0:05:38) Codey: I know that I grew a lot of these and I had a bunch extra so if you’re listening honey grove (0:05:45) Codey: developers please let that roll over that would be great because otherwise it’s almost impossible (0:05:51) Codey: to get the thing and I really want this bee windmill that i’m trying to go for right now (0:05:59) Codey: and then finally the other the last thing that i’ve kind of been doing on top of research is (0:06:04) Codey: and dog sitting is gardening. So legitimately in… (0:06:08) Codey: the soil gardening I have some peppers and stuff in pots now. Next week it’s (0:06:16) Codey: supposed to get kind of chilly so instead of putting them in the ground (0:06:20) Codey: I have left them… I up potted them from the little things containers they came in (0:06:26) Codey: from the garden center and I’m gonna buy some raised bed soil but I’m gonna give (0:06:31) Codey: it a hot minute and then after it is done being 50 degrees (0:06:38) Codey: slash it’s probably like what like nine degrees for y’all. Cold. Once it’s done (0:06:46) Codey: doing that then I will finally put things in the ground and I’m preparing (0:06:49) Codey: my raised bed. I’ve been going out and weeding it every week. Yeah. That’s (0:06:54) Al: Nice (0:06:56) Codey: pretty much it. What about you? (0:06:58) Al: What about me I’ve done I have played a lot of ever after falls less so this week I (0:07:06) Al: Stopped playing it for something else (0:07:08) Al: I can’t remember what the other thing was I was playing. Oh, yeah, I was playing the ratopia demo for last week (0:07:15) Codey: Mm-hmm. I still need to listen. (0:07:15) Al: That’s what it was. Um, and I haven’t got back into ever after falls, but I’ve still got lots talk about it (0:07:23) Al: like 60 hours in. (0:07:24) Al: Or something, so plenty to talk about. (0:07:27) Al: And then today I just started my Pokémon Shield save file. (0:07:33) Al: So you might remember that I have been, you know, (0:07:35) Al: doing lots of living DEXs and the Pokémon home DEXs, (0:07:42) Al: and I have previously done Professor Oak Challenges. (0:07:46) Al: And the one game that I hadn’t got a postgame save file (0:07:55) Al: was Pokémon Shield, and the Sword and Shield DEX is the one I don’t have a living DEX for, (0:08:01) Al: nor do I have the Pokémon home version finished either, for which you get the shiny Keldio, (0:08:04) Codey: Mm. (0:08:08) Al: which I need for my shiny living DEX. (0:08:11) Al: So I started that today. (0:08:14) Al: I’ve been feeling a little bit like I’m not sure what to do game-wise, (0:08:17) Al: because we’re so close to the Switch 2 coming out, (0:08:20) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:08:20) Al: and I know that I’m going to be all in on Mario Kart when that comes out. (0:08:25) Al: And so I’m just like, I’m not really sure what to do. (0:08:27) Al: So I was like, let me just do this for just now. (0:08:29) Al: And I’m just going to set myself a deadline of when the Switch 2 comes out, (0:08:34) Al: and we’ll just see how much I get done by then. (0:08:37) Al: And I’ve undecided as to whether I’m doing it as a Professor Oak Challenge. (0:08:42) Al: I guess maybe I’m going to start that, and if I get bored, I’ll stop. (0:08:47) Al: It’s hard to know whether I’ll want to or not, because I’ve done so many of them. (0:08:52) Al: We’ll see. (0:08:54) Al: I’ve started it. (0:08:55) Al: I’ve not really done much yet. (0:08:56) Al: I’m just kind of getting through the boring beginning of Pokemon game stuff (0:09:00) Al: that you always have, like, oh, here’s all these people, and here’s this stuff, (0:09:03) Al: and you go do this random tiny fetch quest to get your Pokemon, and blah, blah, blah, blah. (0:09:09) Al: Just give me my Pokemon. (0:09:10) Al: Let me go catch some more, please. (0:09:14) Codey: » Mm-hmm. (0:09:14) Al: That’s the game. (0:09:14) Al: I want to get into the game loop. (0:09:16) Al: I don’t want your tutorial at the beginning. (0:09:19) Al: So yeah, we’ll see how that goes. (0:09:22) Al: we got two and a half weeks. (0:09:24) Al: Till the switch to comes out, I think. One, two. Yeah, two and a half weeks till it comes out. (0:09:31) Al: Although, technically, I won’t be getting it until two days later, because I will be in the Isle of (0:09:35) Al: Man when it comes out, and I don’t have it shipping to the Isle of Man. Because that would be silly, (0:09:40) Al: because it would almost certainly be late, and then I would leave the island, and it would arrive (0:09:45) Al: after me. And that is not what we want. So it is coming to my house, and I will get it when I get (0:09:46) Codey: Yeah. (0:09:52) Codey: That’ll be good. I don’t have any plans to get that. (0:09:58) Codey: So. (0:09:59) Al: So yeah, that’s what we’ve been up to, woo! (0:10:02) Codey: Oh (0:10:03) Al: Let’s talk about some news. (0:10:05) Al: So first up, we have Chill Town have announced that their 1.0 is out now. (0:10:10) Codey: yep, that’s the tweet. (0:10:13) Codey: They did say that if you’re a turning player, (0:10:15) Codey: so if you’ve played the early access (0:10:17) Codey: and you have a save file, (0:10:18) Codey: save file is still compatible, (0:10:20) Codey: but that they still recommend starting a new game (0:10:24) Codey: for the quote unquote safest experience (0:10:27) Codey: because they say it avoids any unforeseen issues. (0:10:29) Codey: So it is possible for you to do so (0:10:32) Codey: to just keep going with the save file that you had, (0:10:35) Codey: but maybe start with a new one, (0:10:36) Codey: just to be on the safe side. (0:10:39) Al: I don’t know who you’re talking about. (0:10:40) Codey: Some people feel strongly about that kind of stuff. (0:10:44) Codey: Okay, is it not you? (0:10:46) Al: Well, yeah, it is me. (0:10:48) Codey: It is you, I thought so. (0:10:49) Al: Of Life and Land have also announced that their 1.0 is also out now. (0:10:54) Codey: Oh, woo, and that on their page, (0:10:57) Codey: it says something like, (0:10:59) Codey: it’s now available to buy it for yourself or for a friend. (0:11:03) Codey: And you know what, Al, you’ve got a friend in me. (0:11:06) Codey: I am a friend, someone should buy me this game. (0:11:10) Codey: No, there’s a 40% introductory offer right now on Steam (0:11:15) Codey: and the Steam has it on Windows and Mac. (0:11:20) Codey: And so it’s only 15 bucks. (0:11:22) Codey: And then there’s a bundle that has the supporter edition, (0:11:32) Codey: Um, but that one comes out, uh, or that’s also 14% off. (0:11:38) Codey: Um, the supporter pack gives you wallpapers, digital art posters. (0:11:42) Codey: That’s really cute. (0:11:43) Codey: Digital art poster paper Fox folding instructions. (0:11:47) Codey: Holy heck. (0:11:48) Codey: I want the paper Fox. (0:11:48) Al: Amazing, just just what you need. (0:11:49) Codey: Uh, I legitimately do want that paper Fox. (0:11:54) Al: You can just buy this a quarterback if you want. (0:11:54) Codey: Um, which is only $3 right now. (0:11:59) Codey: I might buy that. (0:12:00) Codey: I’m not going to lie. (0:12:01) Codey: Uh, so yeah, this is. (0:12:02) Codey: Porter edition bundle is also 40% off, which is so it’s just 18%, $18 US. (0:12:08) Al: It is very funny because they’re both they’re 40% off individually and together. (0:12:13) Al: So it shows the bundle is like, oh, of life and land 40% off of life and land supporter (0:12:18) Al: back 40% off price of individual products 15 pounds 16 bundle discount 0% your cost (0:12:24) Codey: Yep. Yeah, right now the bundle is not a deal. I’m assuming it will be eventually. (0:12:25) Al: 15 pound 16 it’s just very funny the way that it’s worded yeah presumably once the initial (0:12:36) Al: discount comes off, then the bundle… (0:12:38) Al: But obviously, they don’t want to have an additional discount on top of 40%, (0:12:43) Al: because 40% is quite a significant discount especially. (0:12:47) Codey: Yeah, no, this is something I definitely want to play at some point, probably going to happen (0:12:52) Codey: in the fall, TBH, because that’s something that I am not going to put a game on my lap. (0:13:01) Codey: There’s only one game that I’m putting on my laptop, and now it’s Mudborne, and then (0:13:06) Codey: past that, no more games on my laptop until I have become a doctor of bugs. (0:13:11) Codey: So yeah, be cool. (0:13:14) Al: And there are 221 people currently playing this game, it has 148 positive (0:13:22) Codey: It’s 221 opportunities for people to be my friend. (0:13:27) Al: Next we have Grimshire. I have announced that their early access is releasing on the 22nd of July. (0:13:34) Al: I honestly cannot remember this game but it was on my list. We’ve apparently talked about it. (0:13:39) Al: Oh no! A deadly plague threatens the village of Grimshire. Manage your farmland, (0:13:45) Al: forage the bounty of the wild to prevent your harvest from rotting away and keep the root (0:13:49) Al: cellar full. Can you help bring the community together and survive? (0:13:50) Codey: The roots seller bring the community together. (0:13:58) Al: I don’t… I don’t like the… (0:13:58) Codey: Yeah, I– you don’t or you do. (0:14:03) Codey: Oh, no. (0:14:04) Codey: I don’t hate it. (0:14:05) Codey: I– I mean, it’s giving Redwall to me. (0:14:10) Codey: What? (0:14:12) Al: Redwall is a series of children’s fantasy novels. (0:14:14) Codey: How? (0:14:16) Codey: How do you, someone who lives in that? (0:14:20) Codey: That country of the world, that part of the, that, that content, content island, not know what Redwall is. (0:14:28) Codey: I am shocked. Redwall is like a staple of American childhood, or at least it was when I was growing up and I’m ancient. (0:14:36) Codey: You’re also ancient though, so it’s fine. (0:14:38) Al: And yes, I think I think we’ve been over this, yes. (0:14:38) Codey: AKA we’re the same. I think we’re about the same age. (0:14:44) Al: I have never heard of this. (0:14:44) Codey: Oh, dude, I loved Redwall, and they had a TV series. (0:14:50) Codey: Yeah, it’s pretty much just some animals are good animals, and they do good things, and some are bad animals, and usually it’s like the rodents and the prey animals are the good ones, and then the ones that eat other things are the evil ones, and they just want to do evil for evil things. (0:15:06) Al: Yeah, I don’t know what it is about the graphics of this game. (0:15:08) Codey: But, listeners chime in here if Redwall is cottagecore. I think Redwall is cottagecore. (0:15:11) Al: It’s just something… (0:15:12) Al: Yeah, I’m not a fan. (0:15:20) Codey: Um, I think it was, it was also a TV show for a while, but I think there is a Redwall game. Uh, yeah, no, I like this. Maybe, maybe Watership Down? I don’t know. That’s also animals, isn’t it? I’ve never read it, though. I could be way off base right here right now. (0:15:38) Codey: Is it? Okay, it’s another animal one. (0:15:40) Al: I have no idea. (0:15:43) Al: I’ve heard of it. (0:15:44) Codey: Yep, so I think I have it because I wanted to read it. I was like wanting to read it. (0:15:50) Al: Anyway, Grimshire. (0:15:50) Codey: Yep. Yep. July 22nd. And that’s for the early access. What’s just windows? Lame. Okay. (0:16:04) Al: Yeah, they say that they’re estimating early access will be about a year, possibly longer. (0:16:13) Al: It’s always, it’s always longer. (0:16:16) Al: Galactic Getaway have announced their big pet update. (0:16:22) Codey: Yep, this is also a game that I didn’t know existed and I looked at it and I was like meh. (0:16:26) Codey: But I kind of just wrote down a little bit of of what the big pet update includes. It includes (0:16:33) Codey: pet stations, which I guess is like where you can you can choose which pets you want (0:16:38) Codey: to be roaming around. Which to me is does not spark joy that like where are the ones that you (0:16:46) Al: They go in the (0:16:48) Codey: you don’t want. What happens to the ugly pets? (0:16:52) Codey: But then when they come back out, they’re just, are they going to be like skin and bones? Are they, are they just in pet jail? (0:17:02) Al: Yeah it does say instead of just being put away in store. (0:17:03) Codey: Um, oh, I mean, that doesn’t, there’s, there’s not really a difference though, is there? (0:17:12) Codey: Okay. Uh, and then you can also feed them. And then they have an egg. (0:17:12) Al: Well, some you see, some you don’t. (0:17:22) Codey: Uh, egg system that is like breeding system. Basically you can put two, two together and they’ll breed and you get an egg and then you get another pet out of it. (0:17:33) Codey: Is this just Pokemon actually? (0:17:36) Al: Yeah I mean the game as a whole gives me very Animal Crossing vibes, cross with like I guess (0:17:44) Al: if Animal Crossing had Miis instead of the Animal Crossing characters. It’s a thing, (0:17:48) Codey: - Mm-hmm, fair. (0:17:52) Al: there seem to be many games as well. We have talked about it before but (0:17:59) Al: Forget there’s too many games (0:18:00) Codey: Yep, there are. If you’re not a very few games that we’ve been really looking forward to, (0:18:07) Codey: Kofkof, Snacko, we forget, though I really am excited for Lens Island. I want to play (0:18:14) Codey: Lens Island again. I don’t think that’s on our list, is it? No. Thanks to talk about (0:18:17) Al: our list of what? Not today, no. Next we have Fantasy Life Eye, The Girl Who Steals Time. (0:18:19) Codey: today. Nope, it’s just on my mind. (0:18:29) Al: They have announced that their physical release outside of Japan has been (0:18:35) Al: cancelled. So I guess if you were wanting the physical release for Fantasy Life Eye, (0:18:42) Al: I, the girl who steals time, sorry. (0:18:46) Codey: also so okay I have a couple I have a couple comments here first of all the eye (0:18:50) Codey: is not like an eyeball it is the letter I lowercase letter I which is just (0:18:56) Al: Yeah. (0:18:57) Codey: confusing to me like are they trying to say what is an eye one (0:19:03) Al: I don’t know, this is a super bad name. (0:19:05) Al: It’s a super bad name because the eye is like unique to it’s like this (0:19:11) Al: is the first fantasy life that has the eye in it, right? (0:19:14) Al: Like it’s not. (0:19:15) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:19:15) Al: This is the second fantasy life game. (0:19:18) Al: The first one was called Fantasy Life. (0:19:19) Al: And this one’s called Fantasy Life Eye, the girl who steals time. (0:19:23) Al: So even if the eye does mean one, it’s it’s wrong. (0:19:26) Al: It’s not the first game, not the first game. (0:19:28) Codey: second one yep uh so that’s my one of my comments (0:19:31) Al: Oh, actually, no, it’s not. (0:19:32) Al: There was a second. This is the third one. (0:19:35) Al: There was Fantasy Life 2, Two Moons in the Village of God, which was a mobile game. (0:19:39) Codey: The only thing I can think of an I being acceptable here (0:19:44) Codey: is if it’s meaning, like, 9, I think it is. (0:19:48) Codey: Whatever number in the alphabet an I is. (0:19:52) Al: or me. Fantastic. Hi, hello, hi over here. Yeah, well. (0:19:57) Codey: But it’s a lowercase i. (0:20:01) Codey: It’s a lowercase i. (0:20:04) Codey: OK, so I was looking at this. (0:20:07) Codey: This is a Reddit post. (0:20:08) Codey: and I… (0:20:09) Codey: started going down the rabbit hole of comments because it’s hilarious. (0:20:12) Codey: Uh, and this little exchange made me cackle. (0:20:15) Codey: Um, so someone said, “I feel like all the news about this game has exclusively made it lamer for Switch fan.” (0:20:22) Codey: Which is crazy considering it was an exclusive at one point. (0:20:27) Codey: Level 5, which is a developer, really fumbled a version that probably would have sold the best. (0:20:33) Al: find this a funny thing to say, considering it’s not like they cancelled the Switch physical version (0:20:39) Al: and kept the PlayStation physical version, they just cancelled all the physical versions. (0:20:43) Al: And in Japan, the physical version is Switch and PS5. It feels like a weird thing to say. (0:20:50) Codey: I just laughed at the every update has made this lamer. (0:20:54) Al: Yeah, I mean, that’s fair, right? But like, why specifically the Switch version? (0:21:00) Al: like I just thought this is nothing to do with the switch (0:21:03) Codey: because yeah the next comments yeah it just made me laugh the next comment down on this (0:21:03) Al: like this is such a weird comment (0:21:07) Al: because yeah I saw that one as well I just rolled my eyes at it (0:21:12) Codey: shred says level five is a company that has been fumbling since the mid 2010s and very few people (0:21:18) Codey: are talking about it uh I just love the idea that they’ve been fumbling um and then I don’t know (0:21:25) Codey: just I don’t know why that one made me laugh probably because then the next one is it’s the (0:21:30) Codey: the universe punishing them for not making a proper (0:21:33) Codey: Professor Layton sequel in nearly a decade. (0:21:36) Al: Aren’t they making one this year? Yeah. (0:21:38) Codey: Is it them making one? (0:21:40) Codey: Well, I think he’s also saying they also said proper. (0:21:44) Al: Of course, no true Scotsman. (0:21:44) Codey: So perhaps they’re basically yeah. (0:21:49) Codey: It’s not a main series. (0:21:50) Al: No one’s ever happy with anything, ever. (0:21:53) Codey: It’s not a main series Professor Layton game. (0:21:56) Codey: I don’t know. (0:21:57) Codey: It was just this that this is like the top most upvoted (0:22:01) Codey: conversation on this. (0:22:03) Codey: It’s just on this game that no one’s really heard about. (0:22:03) Al: Also, it looks like the last Professor Layton game was a decade ago, so that’s probably (0:22:12) Codey: Oh, okay. It just is. (0:22:13) Al: what the talk about this is, but yeah, I feel like the reason, reading up on this, the reason (0:22:19) Al: they haven’t done one in the last 10 years is probably because the puzzle designer for (0:22:23) Al: the previous Professor Layton games died in 2016. (0:22:27) Codey: Yeah, that would that would do it. That’s a reason. (0:22:33) Al: But it takes a while to kind of rethink what you want to do when your main puzzle designer (0:22:39) Al: in a puzzle game dies. (0:22:42) Codey: Well, I’m trying to figure out how to like still make it feel true to the brand (0:22:48) Al: Anyway. Fun times. Yeah. So there we go. Yes, if you wanted the physical release of this, (0:22:50) Codey: Also, there was a plague there was a plague in there somewhere. Yeah, so (0:22:57) Codey: No physical no physical release for you (0:23:01) Al: I’m sorry. Too bad. I think this game comes out as we’re recording in like three days. (0:23:07) Al: I think it comes out on the 21st, so the day this episode comes out is when the game comes out. (0:23:08) Codey: Hmm. Well, it’s available now digitally. (0:23:12) Al: Tiny Garden. Tiny Garden. They have… (0:23:18) Al: … announced a quality of life patch, and they announced that controller support is (0:23:26) Al: incoming for their game. I played this a little bit on the Steam Deck, but it didn’t have controller (0:23:33) Al: support. However, it was okay using the touchscreen. It wasn’t amazing. I think it could be a little (0:23:41) Al: bit better, but it was doable. It didn’t feel like a lot of games without controller support, (0:23:46) Al: where you’re just like using the touchpad. (0:23:49) Al: Which is just the absolute worst way to interact with anything ever on the Steam Deck, but I’m very happy that they’re adding (0:24:00) Codey: Yep, sorry, my brain was trying to think of an analogy for using touch screen to try and do a mouse and my brain was thinking, trying to make a fork with your fingers. (0:24:14) Codey: It’s like you don’t need to be stuck with the tool, aka the fork or the mouse, when you have a perfectly good other way to do it. Just eat with your fingers. (0:24:26) Al: I understand what you’re trying to say, yes. (0:24:30) Codey: This is the hashtag, just I was off my meds for a day folks thoughts. (0:24:38) Codey: That was that was what came up. They also said that they did say the tutorials thing that you can do the tutorials at any time now. (0:24:46) Al: No, I did not. (0:24:48) Codey: Yeah, that was another thing that they announced. And then, and then the switch port is being discussed. (0:24:51) Al: That’s good. (0:24:55) Al: They’re also releasing Mac very soon. (0:24:58) Codey: Well, I might play it, but not until the– (0:25:00) Codey: I do think it’s a really cute game. I like the concept. (0:25:05) Al: Well, maybe by the time you play it, the summer update will be out then. (0:25:12) Al: And our final piece of news, Dolok Town have released their Early Access Roadmap. (0:25:19) Al: So it’s out in Early Access now, and they have given a Roadmap, and it’s pretty vague (0:25:29) Al: in terms of timelines, but it has an update. Late summer. (0:25:35) Al: This year with ranching and main story updates, and then fall/winter with the gene system and (0:25:43) Al: another main story update, and then first half of 2026 with a new map, farming automation, (0:25:50) Al: my favorite thing, and the main story concluded. It then says to be continued, so I’m guessing (0:25:57) Al: that means that that update is not the 1.0 and the future one will be, but it’s not. (0:26:05) Al: To be continued could mean we’re 1.0, but we’re still going to add stuff. (0:26:12) Codey: » Mm-hmm. This is a very cute Roadmap too. (0:26:12) Al: You never know with people in their Early Access and version. (0:26:20) Codey: They drew a lot of hand-drawn things in it. (0:26:22) Codey: It’s very cute. I really like the, (0:26:24) Codey: in the first late summer 2025 ranching system update, (0:26:27) Codey: they’ve got a couple of really cute llama drawings. (0:26:31) Codey: I’m assuming it’s a llama. (0:26:34) Codey: But then they say regarding community feedback, (0:26:38) Codey: and this just makes me feel like they’ve gotten (0:26:40) Codey: a lot of– (0:26:42) Codey: bad. (0:26:44) Codey: Because they say, as first-time developers, (0:26:46) Codey: we’ve been humbled by the incredible volume of feedback (0:26:49) Codey: this past week. (0:26:49) Codey: The game certainly has its flaws, (0:26:52) Codey: and we’ve made our share of mistakes. (0:26:53) Codey: But we’re thankful to everyone taking the time (0:26:55) Codey: to share their thoughts. (0:26:56) Al: That’s a yeah we know it’s not perfect stop telling us. (0:26:57) Codey: We believe that– (0:27:00) Codey: we get it. (0:27:02) Codey: It’s Early Access. (0:27:03) Codey: Leave us alone. (0:27:05) Codey: We believe the Early Access period (0:27:07) Codey: is all about listening and improving based on player input. (0:27:09) Codey: So they’re doing that, which is great. (0:27:12) Codey: So yeah, that’s Dallat town. (0:27:18) Al: Whoo. All right. We’re going to talk about Ever After Falls. (0:27:22) Codey: So again, you have played it, I have not. (0:27:27) Al: Yes, I have played it. I’ve put 60 hours or so into it, which is a good amount of time. (0:27:35) Al: It’s now in my top five games on Steam, I think, with 60 hours. (0:27:35) Codey: Mm hmm. Wow. What’s your top game? Okay, that makes sense. (0:27:43) Al: Stardew. So I guess a quick introduction to this. (0:27:49) Al: Essentially, it is, it’s a Stardew clone, right? (0:27:54) Codey: Right. (0:27:54) Al: Like, it’s not, there’s nothing in it that would make it significantly like this is a selling point, right? (0:28:03) Al: It’s not, oh, it’s Stardew, but it is, it’s Stardew, I guess, but they’ve changed a bunch of small things. (0:28:12) Al: It feels like they’re trying to do to Stardew what Stardew did to Harvest Moon, right? (0:28:18) Al: Let’s make one. And these are like the 20 things that I don’t like about it. (0:28:23) Al: Here’s how I change them sort of thing. (0:28:26) Al: Whereas a lot of farming games nowadays are it’s Stardew, but in space or it’s Stardew, but prehistoric or, you know, (0:28:38) Al: instead, it’s Stardew, but insert specific thing here. (0:28:42) Al: It’s not that it is very much it’s Stardew. (0:28:47) Al: but we’ve improved a bunch of (0:28:48) Al: things. Which is not a bad thing, I think it’s just important that people are aware (0:28:55) Al: of that’s where we are. So if you’re looking for something unique, that is not this. If (0:29:02) Al: you’re like, I love Stardew, but I’m done with it, I’ve had enough time in there and (0:29:06) Al: I want something similar, this could be what you’re looking for. And I’ve got a lot of (0:29:11) Al: stuff to talk about it. Because there’s, as I say, there’s lots of little things that (0:29:14) Al: make it different, I think most (0:29:18) Al: of it is mostly in good ways, but we can get there when we get there, go for it. (0:29:19) Codey: okay okay I’m going to read the little blurb real quick blurb rediscover the (0:29:29) Codey: simple life farm fish forage and fight to restore the piece in an all-new (0:29:33) Codey: farming adventure features split screen co-op a helpful pet automated drones (0:29:39) Codey: resourceful pixies a card eating progression system and dangerous (0:29:43) Codey: dungeons to delve into they put a lot of alliteration into that that was kind of (0:29:49) Codey: hard to read so as I was looking at some other stuff like some videos and (0:29:56) Codey: stuff about this game a couple questions popped up ready are you ready for some (0:29:59) Codey: quick rapid-fire questions oh just before we jump in okay first question in (0:30:01) Al: Oh, I’m as ready as I’ll ever be. (0:30:08) Codey: their gameplay trailer they say that this game is an irreverent farming (0:30:14) Codey: simulator. To remind people, the definition of a reverent is one (0:30:19) Codey: lacking or exhibiting a lack of reverence or disrespectful to (0:30:23) Codey: critically critical of what is generally accepted or respected (0:30:27) Codey: or satirical and three showing a lack of reverence. (0:30:32) Codey: That’s so stupid expressive of a lack of veneration. (0:30:35) Codey: That’s a really stupid definition. (0:30:37) Codey: We’re just going to go with satirical or disrespectful. (0:30:40) Codey: Does this game feel satirical or disrespectful? (0:30:44) Al: No. (0:30:44) Codey: Okay, cool. (0:30:46) Al: I mean, it’s not trying to be serious, right? (0:30:52) Al: So it’s not like, oh, it’s the serious farming sim, like a lot of farming sims are nowadays. (0:30:58) Al: But yeah, it’s not like, I feel like to be satirical or disrespectful, there has to be (0:31:05) Al: something you’re, you know, reacting to. (0:31:10) Codey: Yeah and it’s not doing that. (0:31:10) Al: It’s not, it doesn’t feel like it’s, it’s not, it’s not going. (0:31:14) Al: Oh, we’re not paying respect to stardew, right? (0:31:18) Al: Like, I don’t, it doesn’t, there’s nothing there. (0:31:21) Al: It doesn’t, it is lighthearted in most of what it does. (0:31:25) Al: It’s not trying to be the serious one, but the problem is that farming (0:31:29) Al: Sims didn’t start out serious and this isn’t the lighthearted satirical version of that. (0:31:36) Codey: pottagecore is the most serious genre ever actually and I can’t believe that you disagree with that (0:31:44) Codey: statement um okay my next question um they said in that trailer all the cardboard upgrades (0:31:52) Codey: you can eat and then they also say that again and I think what (0:31:56) Al: Yeah, I mean this is just their skills, upgrades you get by consuming cards, and like the consuming (0:32:06) Al: part of it doesn’t really mean much. You eat them technically in-game, but like it may as well be (0:32:13) Al: something else, right? It could just be like a button you press, right? It’s just like you get (0:32:16) Codey: Like, you learned it. (0:32:18) Al: cards that give you an upgrade, like it might give you more attack when you’re in the dungeons, (0:32:24) Al: or it might give you more. (0:32:26) Al: Things you can water at one time, something like that. (0:32:30) Codey: are cards you can play at any time. Oh, it’s permanent. It’s not like a cool down. Are (0:32:32) Al: Yeah, it’s like a permanent upgrade to your skills though. (0:32:37) Al: Yeah, no, they’re permanent skills. (0:32:41) Codey: there things? Are there cards that you can eat that are not other cards for anything (0:32:46) Codey: else in the game? Like, is there a card that’s just like, here’s a cute card? (0:32:47) Al: What do you mean? (0:32:51) Al: No, they’re all they’re all skill upgrades. (0:32:54) Al: They’re quite varied, though, right? (0:32:56) Al: Because obviously there’s ones relating to combat. (0:33:00) Al: So increased attack, increased attack speed, increased movement speed. (0:33:05) Codey: Mm-hmm, right. (0:33:06) Al: And then there’s farming related ones. (0:33:09) Al: But then there’s also like unique ones, which, you know, for example, (0:33:13) Al: one of the things you can do in games is you can have a drone following you. (0:33:16) Codey: Mm-hmm, mmm. (0:33:17) Al: Cards allows you to have a second drone following you. (0:33:20) Al: And there’s like just stuff like that. (0:33:22) Al: There’s there’s nothing. (0:33:26) Al: It’s nothing like, oh, wow, this is the most amazing idea that someone’s put in a game. (0:33:31) Al: It’s just like small improvements in in the game. (0:33:36) Al: It’s like how in Stardew you increase your skill level in something. (0:33:39) Al: And then suddenly you can do more stuff one way, right? (0:33:43) Al: Like you increase your your stamina or whatever. (0:33:43) Codey: Yeah, I was just wondering if there’s like already a card collecting system or something and it’s just sometimes it’s like, oh, wow, this one does something like this does gives you (0:33:53) Al: No, no, no, no, they’re all, they’re all, I guess you’re technically collecting them, (0:34:00) Al: but like it’s you get it and then you eat it and that is marked as in your stats, right? (0:34:08) Al: Like it’s not, yeah, it’s, they’re all, the entire point of it is your stats upgrades. (0:34:08) Codey: how do you get okay okay I see that and I was like we got to put that in the (0:34:14) Al: There’s not, there’s no other cards you get for stuff. (0:34:17) Al: If you weren’t collecting, there is… (0:34:24) Codey: notes it’s already there how do you get the cards (0:34:25) Al: Well this is an interesting part of the game. So there are three ways I’ve found of getting (0:34:37) Al: the cards, one of which is when you complete museum collections you get credits towards (0:34:45) Al: a shop in the museum and then you can buy cards that way. That I’ve found is the easiest (0:34:52) Al: way to do it because there’s like lots of - it’s not just like (0:34:55) Al: oh you’ve done all the bugs you get credit it’s like oh you’ve done the butterflies you (0:35:00) Al: get credit or you’ve done the starfish you get credit or you’ve done this the spring crops you (0:35:02) Codey: - Oh, cute. (0:35:05) Al: get credit so there’s quite a lot of different ones that you can do obviously some of them are (0:35:06) Codey: Okay. (0:35:10) Al: harder than others but you get quite a lot of cards that way you can also get them through quests (0:35:16) Al: that’s a another way of getting them and there are a few of them but obviously you don’t really (0:35:21) Al: have control over when you get them you just get the quest and then you do it you get it (0:35:25) Al: the third way however is is interesting so when you get a when you get a letter in the mail and (0:35:32) Al: you read it that letter stays in your inventory right you just have a letter in your inventory (0:35:39) Al: and then you can either sell it or put it in your storage or you can recycle it and if you (0:35:46) Al: recycle the letter you get a scrap of paper and once you have well you you I think it takes six (0:35:52) Al: sliders to get scrap of paper. (0:35:55) Al: Three scraps of paper, you can create a base card, and then you can go to the printer. (0:36:00) Al: When you go to the printer, you can print out a card on that card, the blank card. (0:36:06) Al: So you take the blank card to the printer and choose which card you want to print on it, (0:36:11) Al: and that’s how you get that card. (0:36:12) Codey: Mm-hmm interesting that is it (0:36:15) Al: Yeah, I think it’s interesting because I’ve never really played one where the letters you get are (0:36:19) Al: just a thing you have in your inventory, and then you have to do something with, (0:36:21) Codey: Yeah (0:36:23) Al: and they gave you something to do with that. (0:36:25) Al: And it means that you’re then like, oh, how do I get more of these, right? (0:36:29) Al: Because I want to get as many bits of paper as possible. (0:36:31) Al: And so you’re trying to like do more quests and stuff to get more letters, (0:36:34) Codey: have people write you letters. (0:36:38) Al: which is an interesting way of doing things. (0:36:40) Codey: Yeah, I mean that’s unique. (0:36:42) Al: Yeah, it’s interesting. (0:36:43) Al: Yeah, I don’t think it’s that like, if you’ve not, (0:36:46) Al: if you don’t, if you’re not looking for a farming game, (0:36:49) Al: it’s not going to be like, oh, this is a game I must play now. (0:36:52) Codey: - Final question that I have before we just dive into like a general overview of the game (0:36:52) Al: But it does like lots of other things I’m going to talk about. (0:36:55) Al: There are lots of little things like that that I feel are really nice (0:37:00) Al: quality of life improvements over other farming. (0:37:08) Codey: provided by you. Why are some of the bees red? Okay. Additional question. Why are some (0:37:11) Al: They’re not. They’re pink. (0:37:17) Codey: of the beast. (0:37:19) Al: I don’t know why is anything anything, Cody? (0:37:21) Al: I don’t know. They’re just they’re pink bees. (0:37:23) Al: And how else are you going to get pink honey if you don’t have pink bees? (0:37:26) Codey: So it’s only pink or black, which is ridiculous because bees aren’t yellow, but OK. (0:37:28) Al: Well, pink or black and yellow, yellow and black. (0:37:35) Al: OK, orange, whatever, I don’t know, pink or normal bee color. (0:37:36) Codey: I’m getting pedantic. You started the pedantry with the pink comment. (0:37:41) Al: There’s bees and then there’s pink bees and bees make honey and pink bees make pink honey. (0:37:47) Codey: OK. Is pink any more valuable? Are pink bees more difficult to raise? (0:37:49) Al: Yes. They’re not they’re not more difficult to raise. (0:37:55) Al: They’re just rarer to find. (0:37:57) Codey: Okay. And do you, like, find them in the wild and then bring them to your hives? (0:37:58) Al: So like I have, I think, 16 bees and I only have two pink bees. (0:38:06) Al: Yeah, you shake trees and the bees fall out the trees. (0:38:09) Codey: That is horrifying. Okay. Well, those are my questions. (0:38:11) Al: OK, so I guess I’ve done a bit of an intro. (0:38:19) Al: We’ve done some Cody questions. (0:38:22) Al: Let’s go through some of the mechanics. (0:38:24) Al: So one one thing about this game, I think I mentioned this last week. (0:38:29) Al: You won’t have heard of this, Cody, because you said you haven’t listened to that episode yet. (0:38:32) Codey: Correct. How does it limit you? (0:38:32) Al: But there is no stamina in this game and time, just time. (0:38:39) Al: So I actually quite like this. (0:38:41) Al: I did this in the last week’s episode, but I’m going to say it again, because it feels it feels relevant here. (0:38:45) Al: I like what one of the things that I’ve I’ve always felt a little bit weird about farming games is how you have two limiting factors. (0:38:52) Al: You have the time and you have the stamina. (0:38:54) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:38:55) Al: And I’ve always felt frustrated by that, where, you know, you’re you’re like, oh, I have done everything I can do. (0:39:02) Al: Early game, I’ve run out of stamina. (0:39:05) Al: There’s nothing left to do. (0:39:06) Al: I have most of the day left because you have such low stamina at the beginning. (0:39:11) Al: And you’re like, I can either, I don’t know, go and buy some food to eat or I can just go to bed and do the next day. (0:39:18) Al: Right. So that’s why I quite often at the beginning of farming games speedrun these things. (0:39:22) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:39:22) Al: Right. Because there’s nothing to do. (0:39:24) Al: You can’t do anything once you’ve run out of stamina. (0:39:26) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:39:26) Al: But the nice thing about this game is that you can just fill your day with doing things. (0:39:32) Al: You can go mining or you can go bug catching or, you know, lots of other things. (0:39:42) Al: And not worry about your stamina. (0:39:43) Al: You’re just caring about the daytime. (0:39:46) Al: I quite like that because you’re still not you know, you’re still limited by money as well. (0:39:52) Al: Right. So like I can’t immediately go and make this massive farm full of crops. (0:39:57) Al: But being able to go fishing the entire day allows you to have a different way of doing things or going in mining because I’ll talk about the dungeons later. (0:40:07) Al: they’re quite a, quite different compared to other front. (0:40:11) Al: farming games, and it’s quite fun to be able to go through them and spend the entirety (0:40:16) Al: of your day once you’ve done your daily tasks, and just go see how far you can get through (0:40:21) Al: the dungeon. I quite like that. Obviously, there was the other option if you don’t want (0:40:27) Al: to, if you want to change that, so you only have one limiting factor, and you don’t want (0:40:32) Al: to get rid of stamina, the other option is you do a Shookajoo Island, and you only have (0:40:37) Al: stamina and the time is based on just when you say. (0:40:41) Al: Okay, I’m done. The day’s done. And I would like to see that in another game that is actually in (0:40:43) Codey: Yeah. (0:40:47) Al: a good game. I don’t think that was the problem with that game. There were many problems with (0:40:50) Codey: That’s fired. (0:40:51) Codey: Yeah. (0:40:52) Al: that game. I don’t think that was the problem. I would like to see a game try that again. (0:40:58) Al: But I like this as well. I think I like games when they try different things. And I think (0:41:03) Al: I think this is better. I’ll put that out there. I think Stardew would be better if it was like (0:41:04) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:41:08) Al: like this as well. (0:41:08) Codey: Is there a way to slow down time, okay (0:41:11) Al: No, give me two seconds and I’ll check because I’ve never cared about that in a game because, like, if you reduce the time, you still have a certain amount of time, right? Like, you’re still, well, it’s not even just that, right? Like, even in this game when you don’t have stamina, right? If you reduce the amount of time in the day, you still got a limited amount of time, right? It’s not like you can just infinitely grind (0:41:26) Codey: The stamina issues. Yeah. (0:41:42) Al: And I’ve always just found it funny because it’s like, oh, oh, no, I don’t have enough time to do everything that I want to do in the day. I’ve done my dailies, right? There’s plenty of time to do what I need to do every day. (0:41:53) Al: And those are the only things that actually matter getting done today because then there’s always tomorrow, right? These games never have a time limit. It’s not like, oh, I’m sorry, you’ve done X number of days, you can’t play the game anymore. (0:42:00) Codey: Yeah. Yeah. (0:42:07) Al: and even stardew which has the try and get a certain progress. (0:42:11) Al: end of two years, if you don’t manage it, you can just do it again. You can at any point (0:42:17) Al: go and do the, you know, talk to grandpa shrine and get your, I can’t even, oh yes, you get (0:42:26) Al: a statue if you have hit the certain amount. You just get it later, right? Like that’s (0:42:30) Al: the whole point of these games is they’re not meant to be stressful. They’re meant to (0:42:33) Al: be do what you want to do and continue. And so I’ve never felt the need to go, oh no, (0:42:38) Al: day needs to be longer because I need to spend more time in the (0:42:41) Al: line before going back to bed. Why? The only time I’ve ever found that to be an issue (0:42:48) Al: is in Stardew when you’re going down Skull Cavern because that resets if you leave. That’s (0:42:57) Al: the only time that that’s a problem. You can change the day length. You can do 100%, 125%, (0:43:00) Codey: Yeah. I think for me. OK. (0:43:05) Al: 150 percent, 200 percent. (0:43:08) Codey: OK, sweet. Yeah, my thing is like sometimes I just would rather have like (0:43:14) Codey: the day go a little bit slower so that I can make sure to get (0:43:19) Codey: because there’s been a lot of times in a Stardew or Coral Island or whatever (0:43:22) Codey: where I’m playing and then I lose track time because hot ADHD. (0:43:27) Codey: and then suddenly it’s like too late like the (0:43:30) Codey: the places are closed. (0:43:32) Al: Do you think a longer day would actually help with that or would it just mean that you’re (0:43:35) Al: forgetting about the day length for more time? (0:43:38) Codey: You know, it might shift the baseline, you’re not wrong. (0:43:41) Codey: But I think that usually it’s like (0:43:46) Codey: after I’m in the mine for a certain amount of time (0:43:50) Codey: or in the ocean for a certain amount of time or whatever, (0:43:52) Codey: I just kind of have like a sense. (0:43:53) Codey: I’m like, I should, like, it’s time to stop doing this. (0:43:57) Codey: And I don’t think that that would change. (0:43:59) Codey: Like, I don’t think that’s based on the time. (0:44:00) Codey: I think it’s just like, okay, I’m done now. (0:44:03) Codey: Like this, I’ve been doing this for 10 minutes (0:44:05) Codey: and I feel like this is a good amount of… (0:44:08) Codey: time to be doing all this stuff in these little caves in the sea or whatever in Coral Island. (0:44:16) Codey: Or I run out of inventory space is another thing and that usually takes a certain amount of time. (0:44:21) Al: Oh, yeah, inventory, remind me about that in a minute, I’ve got to talk about the inventory (0:44:25) Al: in this game. Yeah, I just I just feel like you’d get used to that. I feel like you would (0:44:25) Codey: No, no, okay. (0:44:30) Codey: Okay. (0:44:32) Al: just it would just be the same problem. It’s just instead of instead of wasting 15 minutes, (0:44:37) Al: you’d waste 30 minutes. But I mean, I don’t know. I feel it is it is there. Yeah. (0:44:40) Codey: But the option is there for people who might want to feel as though, as though they’re not stuck in a, in a hellscape of a mental. Yeah. (0:44:49) Al: Yeah, I’m not saying this option shouldn’t be there for the record. I just don’t think (0:44:53) Codey: Yes. (0:44:54) Al: it actually would solve anybody’s problems with these games. (0:44:58) Codey: Yep, I agree. You’re probably right. Cool. (0:45:02) Al: So yes, inventory. It’s hard to talk about inventory without talking about a lot of other (0:45:08) Al: things, so I’m trying to figure out where the best time to talk about that would be. (0:45:13) Al: Let’s talk about the pet, and then I’ll talk about inventory, and then I’ll talk about (0:45:18) Al: by farming, but those things are all (0:45:19) Al: very connected, and you’ll understand why in a minute. (0:45:20) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:45:21) Al: So one of the big things about this game is you have a pet and your pet is very (0:45:22) Codey: OK. (0:45:24) Codey: Mm-hmm. (0:45:26) Al: functional, so the moment that you start the game, (0:45:29) Al: you have to go and get a pet and you choose what pet you want. (0:45:32) Al: And that is your pet. (0:45:33) Codey: What are the options? (0:45:34) Al: It is kind of the well, so it’s not like a cat or a dog. (0:45:39) Al: It’s just it’s it’s this kind of it almost looks like a hybrid cat dog. (0:45:46) Codey: Okay. (0:45:47) Al: it’s it’s got some kind of feline features and some (0:45:49) Al: canine features. Well, no, not really. Go look at some (0:45:51) Codey: So it’s a fox. (0:45:56) Al: pictures of it. You can get different colors, I think, but (0:45:56) Codey: I will, I will. (0:45:58) Codey: Okay, but it’s a pet. (0:46:00) Al: it’s it’s not yeah, it’s not meant to be this is a specific (0:46:02) Al: animal. It’s just called a pet. And I think you’ll (0:46:06) Al: understand when you look at it what I mean. And your pet is (0:46:11) Al: very functional. There are certain things that are required (0:46:19) Al: pet. So, for example, your pet is your watering can, right? You (0:46:25) Al: don’t have a watering can. Your pet is the thing that does the (0:46:27) Al: watering. You say water this square and it waters that (0:46:30) Al: square. Your pet does a bunch of other things as well. For (0:46:35) Al: example, your pet can give you extra inventory space. Your pet (0:46:39) Al: can attack enemies. Your pet also, as well as watering, does (0:46:43) Al: the digging up the ground so that you can you can. (0:46:49) Al: Place seeds. So it replaces a bunch of tools in the game and (0:46:56) Al: is required for that. But that means that when you’re (0:46:57) Codey: Mm-hmm (0:46:59) Al: upgrading those things, you’re essentially upgrading your pet’s (0:47:03) Al: ability. So say you start out, I can’t remember how many (0:47:08) Al: spots it is, but your pet has like a queue of things that (0:47:14) Al: you’ve told it to do, right? So say you say dig this square up, (0:47:20) Al: it takes time for them to do it and you can give it a certain (0:47:24) Al: number of things before you can stop. You can’t give it any (0:47:28) Al: more things to do. And it’s kind of like if you’re if you (0:47:33) Al: press and hold and drag, you can say do these nine squares and (0:47:39) Al: that adds all of those nine squares to its queue. So it (0:47:39) Codey: Okay. (0:47:42) Al: allows you to say, you kn

How do you lead change when you’re not the boss? Casey Sinnema shares what it takes to build trust, influence outcomes, and make Monday feel a little less dreadful. Overview What happens when you give a self-proclaimed utility player the freedom to poke holes in broken systems and lead cross-functional change without official authority? In this episode, Scott chats with Casey Sinema about navigating ambiguity, building trust without a title, and leading impactful change through curiosity, clarity, and a deep understanding of what people actually need. References and resources mentioned in the show: Casey Sinnema Wolf Pack by Abby Wombach The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins Micromanagement Log Subscribe to the Agile Mentors Podcast Join the Agile Mentors Community Want to get involved? This show is designed for you, and we’d love your input. Enjoyed what you heard today? Please leave a rating and a review. It really helps, and we read every single one. Got an Agile subject you’d like us to discuss or a question that needs an answer? Share your thoughts with us at podcast@mountaingoatsoftware.com This episode’s presenters are: Scott Dunn is a Certified Enterprise Coach and Scrum Trainer with over 20 years of experience coaching and training companies like NASA, EMC/Dell Technologies, Yahoo!, Technicolor, and eBay to transition to an agile approach using Scrum. Casey Sinnema is a self-described utility player who’s built a career by asking great questions, poking holes in broken systems, and leading meaningful change across teams—without ever needing the official title to do it. With a background in accounting and a talent for cross-functional problem solving, she brings curiosity, empathy, and real-world savvy to every challenge she tackles. Auto-generated Transcript: Scott Dunn (00:01) Well, welcome everyone to another episode of the Agile Mentors Podcast. I am your takeover, not your normal host, of Brian Miller, who's done a smash up job over a hundred plus episodes if you haven't checked those out. But part of the podcast takeover was not only a fresh voice, but also perspective and a lot of what I typically focus on for the people who know me. On leadership and culture and leading change. And I thought of no one better that I'd rather talk to about some of this. Casey Sinnema and I'll give you a little bit of introduction about who she is, what she does. Maybe also I think it'd be fascinating Casey on how you yourself in the role that you have. I think it's kind of a cool role, at least on paper. You can flesh that out a little bit more but I'll hand off to you. Tell us a little about yourself. Casey (00:46) Yeah, hey, thanks for having me. Yeah, so I currently am most often referred to as a utility player. And I'm still trying to figure out my elevator speech for how I talk about what I do because my role, my title is manager, which doesn't say much, right? And I actually don't do a function, but the easiest way to talk about it is I'm a project manager of sorts. I'm involved in a wide variety of projects from a varying level of involvement, from leading the project to leading the change to being a key stakeholder to just being the voice to leaders or executives or that type of thing. So yeah, I am a little bit of everything. And I got here on accident. I have... Scott Dunn (01:32) I was... Casey (01:34) You know, way back in the day when I was, you know, doing the like, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? I'm like, I just want a marketable skill. So I have a business degree and I went into accounting and I quickly became the troubleshooter. So I would go into a company, troubleshoot, fix the process, fix something broken, and then find myself in another company doing the same thing. And, so throughout my career, I've just sort of built this unique set of skills that allow me to poke holes in processes. and help companies fix them and then kind of find the next thing. So that's just kind of how I wound up here. I've been at my current company for almost a decade, which is going to be a record for me. And, but I'm still doing the same thing. I'm moving around the company and finding new places to, you know, rock the boat a little bit. Scott Dunn (02:20) Cool. Very cool. Yeah. It does sound like you have a number of things on your place to where that makes kind of expand on that a little bit and where you comfortably share those stories as we go through some of this because there's a lot, there's a lot more underneath based on what Casey shared before. And I love it that you found yourself like a happy accident and I guess have enough challenges and learning and growth there as long as they move you around that you're, you know, you need to be working on that are meaningful. things to be working on. Casey (02:51) Yeah, absolutely. That's the biggest thing, right? Is to like find work that you find valuable and that has an impact on the people around you, which is, know, squarely aligned with my values. Scott Dunn (03:01) Well, you touched on one thing that I know a number of other people could relate to and I could too as well as the kind of troubleshoots process can just easily see that things aren't working at a larger view. Some of that. maybe add on a little bit. What is it like about your role? For those who are kind of thinking they're in quasi space, they can hear you talk about that role and like, hey, that sounds like me too. What are the points of that different projects, different things you're involved with that that's what really lights you up? Casey (03:27) Yeah, I, it's so interesting because a lot of us find that the things that we're good at are the things that, you know, give us energy and that motivate us, right? I happen to be uniquely skilled at poking holes in things, including in my own life. So it works in my personal life as well. I could just sort of see things from different perspectives and find the gaps. And so it just sort of on accident. I think what's interesting is Scott Dunn (03:43) You Hmm. Casey (03:53) throughout my career and throughout my life, the biggest challenge has been to hone that skill for good, right? To lead with kindness and to manage my expectations along with the expectations of the world around me and troubleshoot the things or poke holes in things that need holes poked in instead of like everything. You know what mean? Scott Dunn (04:15) I love that. Two things that I want to, I guess, add on a little bit more there. One, you mentioned something and the other thing is I think you might just put out there like, same thing from different perspectives. I imagine for the people, we've all been around folks who just they only think their way. And you're just kind of reflecting on that. But Keith, it sounds like you can go into a meeting and you can hear three different state views and you can genuinely understand from their perspective why that's important to them or why that's a problem to them, right? If I'm hearing you. Casey (04:42) Yeah, absolutely. That's really key in all of the different types of projects that I've played a part in, right? Like hearing things from different people's perspectives and really understanding what they're looking to get, what they need and what's in it for them and being able to connect those things across stakeholders. Scott Dunn (04:59) Yeah, that's powerful. Yeah, but looking for commonality, alignment, et cetera. I do think there's a specialness, and we've talked about it a bit, like in the facilitation class, that looking for those folks having common and generating alignment is a unique gift that we just don't see a lot in corporate people kind of lobby for what they want. And actually, it's, it would be an afterthought to think about other people's perspectives and yet who draws different areas of the company together who are to get some new about the door or whatever like that. So you're kind of touching on that, which I think is really powerful. Is there anything that you see as like a go-to mindset that you bring in those situations or go to like tools that you're kind of using, whether that's things you're doing in writing down or in mural or even just how where your head is at when you walk into some of those meetings where you feel they have different perspectives and on the same page, you're supposed to walk out of that session on the same page. Casey (05:51) Yeah, the first one is to sort of leave my ego at the door, right? What I think is the right thing can't come in the door with me, right? Like I, of course I'm influencing, right? Where I feel like it matters. But it's not, I'm probably not the decision maker and the people that are not on the same page, when they need to get aligned, they need to be able to get there on their own. So what I think is the right way, I got to leave it at the door. So that's my number one thing. Scott Dunn (05:57) heheheheh. Casey (06:18) And then the next thing I do is just really stay curious, ask lots of questions, actively listen, model that active listening behavior so that everybody else is also actively listening. That's a big thing. And really just sort of helping people find a common language, I think, is really important. So I do a lot of restating what I'm hearing so that other people can maybe hear it from a different set of words and connect it. Scott Dunn (06:29) Hahaha Casey (06:42) more readily to the way that they're thinking about the topic. Scott Dunn (06:45) Yeah, you say these as if they're like, I mean those are short little pithy statements, but boy, powerful. I think it reflects an attitude beginning with what he said as the ego is like, we might know a whole lot, we gotta leave that at the door. Just at work, awesome. Here and you say something, I'm making notes like this would be good in life too, right? In personal life and relationships, stay curious, active. Don't assume that the way you see it is reality, right? So, I think that's super. The other thing you mentioned though was about Go ahead. Casey (07:17) I will say I'm better at it at my job than in my personal life because, Scott Dunn (07:23) Of course, I think, yeah, for everyone listening, they're like, me too. Why can't I do this? I can tell some stories. So the other one, though, you should just poke holes as if like, it's this little thing we're doing. But there might be something inside. I think I might be able to relate that is driving perhaps towards this isn't running as well as it could, or this isn't running. I think we know that, or this could be better. Something inside you that that you feel is churning, that you're seeing holes no matter what that is, if it's a small process, large process, a team, multiple teams. Tell me a little bit more about what does that mean to you when you say poke holes in things? What's running through your mind? Casey (08:01) Yeah, it's complex, right? Because sometimes it's really easy. This is broken. you know, right? Or there's a bottleneck, something that's really like you can, it's data driven, you can see in the data where something is not working well, that those are the easy ones, right? And you can just start asking sort of the five whys or the finding the root cause of what's happening there. Scott Dunn (08:06) Those are the easy ones, yes. Casey (08:26) But in the case where there's friction or there appears to be barriers or there's just this. any kind of challenge or even when there's not a challenge, quite frankly, I have this unique ability to like listen across people and across like data and technology. That's a weird thing to say is listen across technology, but I sort of just find where things are misconnected or disconnected and start to ask questions there. And so I can find something that maybe isn't working as well as it should without anybody else noticing which. Scott Dunn (08:35) Yeah. Casey (08:59) I've learned I need to be careful with. Scott Dunn (09:01) That's great. So at least the next question was any hard lessons, anything so you could do a redo on that one that you could pass on so someone else doesn't have to learn the hard way from Casey's experience. Casey (09:11) Ha yeah. Everything I learned, I learned the hard way. So if you feel like that's what you're doing, you're not alone. Yeah, the thing that I have learned probably the most often, and I will learn it several more times in my career, I'm sure, is when I think I have found something, go make sure it's true before you start to really socialize it. So like, I'm going to go ask the question of the expert. Scott Dunn (09:20) Ha Whoa. Casey (09:42) before I bring it up because maybe I'm not seeing it from all of the right angles or maybe I don't understand exactly what it's doing or quite frankly maybe I'm missing some context. And so really talking and building relationships with people who are experts on the topic or in the field is really kind of where I start. Scott Dunn (10:00) was great, great period. the number of times we miss out on relationships, especially in that one, really key. Casey (10:00) And. Yeah. Scott Dunn (10:08) I think I'd add to that though. sometimes I'll phrase it as rather wait to be sure than lose capital because if I go out saying things that aren't true. So sometimes we'll jump in on the outing side and they'll be like, why haven't you gotten yet? And I'll be clear, like, I'd rather wait and be sure than hurry and be wrong. And then we got to that mess before we get back to the work we're supposed to be doing. And sometimes it's a while to pick that up, depending on who got affected by We'll put out there sometimes innocuously, we thought, well, here's the numbers results. And someone's like, that's actually not correct. But now everyone knows we have now we have a PR problem, something like that. So I'm not alone in that. I've been there. That's a tough one. But also on the coin, though, what would you point to as wins if you look back like that's talking about? That's why this is important. That's what you feel good about. Casey (10:54) Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I think from a win perspective, the, a really good example, I'm going to go way back in the day. I had a, a chance to work, in a motorcycle dealership and we had huge, was, you know, weird economic times, right? And so there's weird financial things happening in this, you know, motorcycle dealership company and, and, everybody's just trying to stay afloat and You find the like the friction between either the mechanic shop and the, the sales shop. And when you find those and you can solve those problems and make the experience smooth for the, for the client, right. For the customer and make that like walk in the door experience consistent and smooth. This in this case was just people, right? It wasn't even technology. wasn't really a process. It was just people. And the biggest wins are when like. the people start to notice. And then what happens is everybody's life gets better and everybody has more fun doing whatever it is that they're doing. And it just changes the vibe. Scott Dunn (12:08) I love that. I love that. I do believe very much like the work that we could be doing here. People enjoy their work more people enjoy coming to work. doesn't have to be a place that people don't want to be in or watching the class. I love you touching on that's great. Casey (12:21) Yeah, there's a balance there, right? Like, because they call it work for a reason. It's a job. We don't love everything that we do all of the time. But, you know, are we doing the things that we can do to make life good for ourselves and for others? Scott Dunn (12:33) Yes, so nice segue because what I feel like I've learned later in my career, we'll just phrase it that way, that the importance of self-care, taking care of ourselves so that we have the energy and attitude to keep doing work that we're doing, especially if you're a leading changer, in some ways you're a change artist trying to bring that about, change agent, it can be taxing. So are there things along the way that are either You just know a good way that you take care of yourself could be learning, could be space, could be the road you carry, or that you actually do to protect yourself and that work-life balance emotionally, mentally. you aren't kind of aware of, what does it look like to do good self-care and help make sure you're taking care of yourself to deliver good value in the workplace. Share what that means to you and maybe some of the things that you do. Casey (13:21) Yeah, it's so important, right? Like I am also not in the early stages of my career and still learning how to take care of myself and protect myself and, you know, build good boundaries, right? I, yes, yes. So I have good personal routines, right? Like I do yoga, I meditate. I'm a big fan of podcasts and. Scott Dunn (13:31) Hahaha Right. Boundaries is a good word, yes. Casey (13:46) I'm a learner, so I'm always learning. Maybe there's a boundary there too, like how much can you self-improve before it becomes, I don't know, toxic? But when it comes to boundaries, really it's, I start with the relationships, right? Like at work, making sure that my expectations are clear and that of my leadership chain is clear no matter what job I'm in. Scott Dunn (13:47) Hmm. you Casey (14:11) and setting boundaries that are clearly expressed so that I can protect myself and my personal life and that balance, and I can deliver the way that I'm expected to deliver. And that just makes life easier for me. Scott Dunn (14:23) Super, super, super, super. I'm thinking there's a lot of people. I it's a ways back. We cover accommodative and assertive, you know, as far as power styles and the cowl. And what's been fascinating for all these years, most people are all on the accommodative side. When I hear you say something like, hey, the expectations clear or use the word bad, that sounds like someone who has a balance of, no, I'm there for people, but I don't overextend myself to where I no good. Casey (14:23) Thank Scott Dunn (14:50) I burned something like that. So I think that's really great for everyone to hear. It hurt to define the relationship with make sure your expectations are clear for me. And then sometimes, you know, there's someone else that could take that on or might play this role, etc. But sometimes we're so helpful that we overload ourselves and actually don't do good job. We do, you know, average job on a lot of things instead of a job on a few and they could have found maybe someone else. think that's awesome. You said podcasts, there other ways, is that your way of learning? there other things that you, as far as what, for the learning side? Casey (15:26) Yeah, so books are my go-to. I'm somebody who does a lot of highlighting and note taking and flagging in books, because I'm always going back to them. And I love to learn things that are sort of outside of my lane, if you will. It's kind of how I got involved in Agile. I have a business degree in finance, and Agile doesn't really play into that until it does, right? And so I started to like, I'm curious about that, or I'm curious about Six Sigma or those types of things. And so I just sort of go find them and take the nuggets that apply directly to me and put the other ones on the shelf for like when it does apply to me, if you know what I mean. Um, so I just, I'm a learner, so I'm always looking to, to, to learn new things. I'll be frank, podcasts for me, I'm not learning things. I'm entertaining myself. Scott Dunn (16:20) I try, I try to really be focused to get, I like listening, but yeah, the actually applying is not as much. I'm definitely same about I'm a higher. Someone said the difference in studying is the pin. So I'm always like, unless I'm marking it up, am I really digging into this book or, or Kendall? So I'm to hear I'm not alone on that one. So I want to shift a little bit because some of what we've done is leading change. think the conversation we had were around. Casey (16:38) Absolutely. Scott Dunn (16:45) So moving around from just you to the broader culture, how would you describe what a great culture like or feels like? Maybe some of us haven't even been in a great company so they don't know. They can't picture, imagine what that could be like. And you've been to a number of places with different roles. What's good culture, great culture look like in your opinion? Casey (17:06) Yeah, I think that it's gotta be a cliche out there. I'm pretty sure I've seen it on a meme, but good culture is defined by how you feel on Sunday night, right? Like if you're not dreading going into work on Monday, right? Like you probably are in a culture that's a good fit for you because I think culture doesn't have a one size fits all perspective. Like big companies, small companies, different types of work, different groups of people. sort of lend themselves to different kinds of culture. I've been in companies where the culture is great for me and everybody else is miserable. And companies where the culture is great for everybody else and I'm just not a good fit. So I think that in general, good culture is... I talk about it in this like self-awareness perspective. If the culture itself is a little bit self-aware, then it is what they say it is. So if you say your culture is one thing and everybody agrees, including the culture, including the behaviors of what's expected in the environment, if all of those things are aligned, the culture is probably good, even if there are people who aren't good fits for it. I don't know if that answers your question. That's my perspective. Scott Dunn (18:03) Hehehehe That's great. Oh, it's it's better. That one's a good wrap up now. Like that really to me, it's a bit of a mic drop because it's so good. It's simple. But you're right. How you feel on Sunday night? A ton about what's happening with you and the job you have and what's happening around you. Absolutely. And that different like sometimes it is just a fit because a lot of people can be excited about it, but you're bothered by it or might rub you wrong. And I know we've gone through the values in the class as well. I've been at companies where we're absolutely about get stuff done and that's fine. But it's kind of a burnout. I love the very collaborative, but sometimes I'm like, man, I want to get stuff done. I'm getting frustrated that we're like, we really connect and talk a lot. I don't see stuff happening. So you're right. Obviously, you know, some people are sensitive to that. And that last piece about like the behavior. it should be considered. And I do sometimes see like leadership will say something or there'll be things on the walls. But you look around like, yeah, I don't actually think anyone's actually behaving that way. It's like an aspirational vibe about what they want to be, but they're not really doing it. So I think all those lenses are giving are right. And they're simple. Someone can look around and just see what you're saying. And then you make their own calculations of that. Some of the good. Some of that's a bit too. Casey (19:26) Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Scott Dunn (19:32) In the sense like either either change it for the better or You know what I mean? Like I don't want to be the person that's been there seven like this place is terrible What are you doing? What why have you been here 17 years hating it? I don't Casey (19:32) you Yeah, it's really important that we're honest with ourselves as much as our companies are honest with us, right? Like, what do I need from my job? What do I need from my career? And am I at a place that can support that? Scott Dunn (19:45) Good. Yes. Yeah, and and i'll serious in this case. I think there is some point where people I hear them And i'll just straight up. I don't think leadership has any intention to changing in the way you're describing Right. So in the end like so what would you like to do? And it's not even like it's a bad thing really. It's just like that's like It's a bit when you said that part some people are so passionate they forget like Yeah, and you're wrong like you could be wanting this coming to change in a way. It's not who they are or what they're about or you're Found by 80 people who are actually quite good with the way things The fact that you're so passionate doesn't mean you're right. It might just mean this is not a good fit. So don't stay here trying to change everything, which probably wouldn't work anyways if that's, you know, they're comfortable with what are. It's almost like in self-preservation, just say, I just need to exercise my agency and there's not a good guy. What's that song? There Ain't No Good Guy, There Ain't No Bad Guy. It's me and you and we just disagree. You move on to another and they'll be happier somewhere else is what I would think. So I think that's a good perspective. People can get past space about, you know, and agile and all that and then rail against something that's an immovable in some organizations. Casey (21:08) Yeah, being aware of the things that you can control, the things that you can't control, is really the crux of your own sanity, if you will. Scott Dunn (21:16) Yeah, it's a good way of saying it, Yeah, and you can control a lot of that. You can influence it. can influence it. Let me follow up on that because clearly, in my opinion, seems like you've that about bringing about change when you don't necessarily have authority. You can't dictate to some of these folks. What do you think is a key aspect of being successful around influence or people who... I get asked this all the time, how do we influence, how do we manage up, et cetera. What would you prefer as your thoughts on that about influencing others? Casey (21:50) Yeah, I actually listened to a podcast recently about leading without influence. one of the key comments, I guess I am also learning through podcasts, I guess. But one of the comments in the podcast was there are people who lead with a hammer, people who lead with influence. And I kind of love that because I haven't been a people leader in more than a decade. Scott Dunn (21:55) There you go. So they are some good. Casey (22:13) which means I don't have any authority, right? I lead all of my influence. All of my leadership is through influence. And the way that I approach that is I start with. It's a, it's a gooey word, but empathy, understanding the people that I'm talking to and working with and understanding what they need and what their challenges are, and then meeting them where they are. Right. The easiest way to gain influence with. Most people, is to build trust and to build trust, need to build relationships. And so I would say 90 % of my influence comes first from relationships. And probably the other 10 % comes from my ability to stand up and say, I was wrong when I did something wrong or when my perspective was incorrect and when I behaved outside my values, like just owning it up when I'm like, Scott Dunn (22:59) Wow. Casey (23:04) Yeah, I was having a bad day. I apologize. There's a lot of trust that comes from that kind of vulnerability. Scott Dunn (23:11) Yeah, which is not easy to do not easy to do But I've been in meetings where I like I know it like I don't play this year But I like things so in some ways people look at influence about how we phrase things or how we present but you're just saying like look happy build a real relationship Have some humility if you're willing to say we're wrong. So people know you'll also that when you're wrong or made of your core element of strength or something like that. think that's a real nice, everyone, if you think about that, that's not out of any of us to say, you know what, I'm going to try to be more honest and authentic and have some empathy and try to listen. Casey (23:45) Absolutely. It also helps to be able to connect the dots across different people and what they need and the strategy of whatever project you're working on so that you can connect the change to something that is it like what's in it for me, right? So what's in it for the people that you're talking to and being able to connect those things. So it's not just relationships and empathy, right? That's the soft stuff. It's that ability to really critically think about what it is you're driving change for. Scott Dunn (24:08) Mm-hmm. Casey (24:12) and connecting it to how each of these different stakeholders can benefit. Scott Dunn (24:18) Yeah, the part about connecting the dots and this is one thing if I'm ever in a meeting and I feel like I'm not getting it I actually will pause into my head. I'm thinking What is this person's concerns? And if I can't if I can't clear that I'd probably need to ask more questions but for any of us in those meetings just kind of go around through those stakeholders the people sitting around the desk or on the zoom and quick like in a sentence or two what what would be important to them? What are they? What's the win or what's the pain? But if you don't feel like you can articulate, then the good thing is you have to see that asking questions around that is never a problem because they're actually share because you're basically asking them about yourself. Tell me what's important to you. And they would like to share that. And it doesn't hurt to double check that. So I love what you're saying about connected dots. It won't be necessary that they're saying what you're listening and watching. I also watch what they react to. So something might jump out that would be outside of their say their role. but it's about people and there's an aspect that they really do care about how their people feel, not just the, this process is important in terms of our strategy and the technology we're using, but it might come out like, well, all their people would be really excited to put their hands on that new technology too. But they're not gonna say that because that sounds like that's a weak reason to be for a project, but you know it's important to them because they lead those people or that person. So I like what you're saying, connect the dots, think about those perspectives, because the empathy is gonna help them to connect in the dots, right? more is emotional than the logic of that stuff. So think that's great. Really, really great. On this, I believe you're remote, correct? Partially? Okay. ⁓ fully. Okay. Let's talk about that small. It hasn't come up in the last five years, but let's talk remote. So from your experience, it's always a big topic to me. I do care about this. I think we deal with a lot, every company, because some people at least that are remote, or certainly partial remote, Casey (25:45) I am. Fully. Scott Dunn (26:05) What's your thoughts on what to be worried about and what to make that successful? you're seeing more and more almost like these two sides of the aisle, maybe some aspect of demanding people come back. And yet you have a whole generation who can't buy a house. So I'm figuring out where's the balance of remote work. So yeah, your thoughts on remote work, how to make it successful scene. Casey (26:27) Yeah, I mean, I have two different ways I could approach this, right? I have the personal thing that what works for me part, right? But as somebody who is often having these conversations with people who are in various buckets of people who are, know, partially remote, fully remote, fully in the office, that kind of a thing, I find that what I think is less relevant every single day. I for sure feel I have a lot of privilege. Scott Dunn (26:33) Mm-hmm. Casey (26:50) being fully remote. Like that's really cool because it's good for me. I'm at a spot in my career where it makes sense. I'm good at building relationships in lots of different kinds of ways, including through, you know, zoom meetings and that type of thing. But I don't think that there's a right answer. I think that the each company and each team and each group of people need to find what works best for them. and make that happen. I see real benefit to being together, especially when you're early in your career or when you're doing something that you need a whiteboard. I mean, I'm pretty good at Mural. I'm pretty good at using the whiteboard in the Zoom meeting, but there's no replacement for standing at a whiteboard with a bunch of stickies and flowing out process. So I just don't... Scott Dunn (27:33) That's so true. You're so right. Casey (27:40) I don't know that there's a right answer. And I think that different size companies have different complexity of making that decision. And it sort of goes back to that comment we were making before. Like, if it isn't a good fit for you, find something that is. You know, I don't know. That's my thought. That's my thought. Scott Dunn (28:00) Yeah, true. Makes sense. For the folks that are managing or leading these remote work, are things that they do to make that go better in their context. Casey (28:12) Absolutely. are ways to, especially if you have hybrid, it even gets more complex, right? All virtual is the easiest way of virtual, right? Because then everybody's always virtual and you're always on Zoom and you're always on Slack and whatever. That's for sure the easiest way to manage teams that are virtual. When you have that hybrid space, you've got that opportunity to be in a conference room or in a huddle group or in the cafeteria. and on Zoom meetings, and it gets kind of funky, right? Because sometimes you can't hear, or you have those water cooler conversations. The key really is to have what I found is a good working agreement, right? Like, what types of communication are we going to have? How are we going to do that? What happens when we had a really great conversation in the break room? How do we communicate that to the rest of the team who wasn't there? And really just sort of build team trust through a good quality executed working agreement. And sometimes that takes a little bit more effort from the leader or even from every individual, right? But that's part of that culture, right? Scott Dunn (29:16) Right. I think the folks you make me think that's personally in a meeting and it's good that I try to get the groups together in these different locations as they're talking. I can't tell. I talking. I don't know these. I don't know them all that well. So I can't I can't tell by voice yet. If these are different groups are working with each other. The thing is, look, that person's kind of off camera or either they're on camera. They're so far back. Is that is their mouth moving? Is there a delay? I can't tell. So that sets the connection. I'm surprised for me as a more of a relator, how much it becomes a problem like nothing beats in person. So at least get that regularly. get in person. There was another client that saying that very same thing. Like they love it when we all get back together. And so they kind of have their cadence of pulling the whole group better. Could be like you're off site, could be all hands could be, but I think those opportunities to keep connection. I do like remote. I do think you have a good point about depending on the maturity of the career. Some people just know like I know I got to take care of these biopsy that they've noticed other XYZ. So they do too. So if they're new in their career, they may not even catch that I should be probably working. what is this at home on the zoom and in their PJs or something like that. I think it's a good point. Look at those and also the work. The fact that you would take that to the team and say, what do you all think is very empowering. You have an open conversation around what they all think and definitely there's a assumptions that people are making about what it should be, et cetera, but they those explicit and they kind of carry that around with them a little. Right. So that's a yeah, really nice nugget on that. That's everyone for sure. So last thing I'm to add a little bit on the back on leading change. So in this case, it could be remote, could be these other projects that we'll try to adapt. I think you'd say this earlier about there's no company that's not going through this crazy time of change right now. When it comes to change, have you seen something that's helpful, especially if it's a more significant change, you gave some good fundamentals around influence and trust and relationship, empathy, et cetera. Are there other aspects on how that change is rolled out or a process change or the groups that are leading the change that you've seen be like more systemically just successful aside that people might change, but the way we handle change is done this way. That you think there's a tip or two out there that would help out. They're trying to kick off, you know, a new way of working. We're trying to refresh remote policies or how they work, Because a lot of people in the middle of change. Have you seen overarching themes about how this lead that you found have been more successful? Casey (31:57) Yeah, think, gosh, it's the hardest thing, right? Like figuring out a way to roll out change across teams is the most challenging thing that I've ever done. And I've been doing it for a long time. And I'm always learning new ways and new ways not to do things and all that jazz, right? I have this little nugget that I got from a mentor. Scott Dunn (32:11) Hahaha, yeah. Casey (32:24) 20 years ago almost, and he's a motorcycle rider. And when you ride a motorcycle, the thing that you do to go on a corner is to turn your head, right? Turn your head to get to where you're going. And the non-motorcycle sort of connection to that is the what's my plan. And so really understanding what the plan is so that you can very clearly articulate what it is you're doing at each phase of the change. If you're prepping people for change, what's the plan? If you're starting to design a project, what's the plan? And just get really clear with where you're going, what the expectations are, what each individual person's role is, and be explicit about it because we're all dealing with a lot of things coming at us all the time. And if you're leading with kindness and you're saying, okay, your part of this is to simply accept the change. That's not condescending, that's empowering. That tells that person that like, this decision has been made, I gotta get myself there, and this person's here to help me get there. And so just being really clear about it, that's the biggest thing for me that I've seen that is successful. It's hard to do though, because that's a lot of people and a lot of Scott Dunn (33:36) Yeah. Well, yes, that's why it makes it so surprising. Number of times a company has to bring in outside help to get the change because it's not a capability or muscle they really have about how to change ourselves. Right. We execute against what we build or do here really well for help. But but that idea of getting outside the box and thinking different how we can improve, like you said, poke holes and so that's why I like it that there's someone When a company sees someone with your skill set and the way that you're wired and leverages it to say like, we kind of informally have this person like really helping things about because it's commonly not a muscle that they really have. Sometimes they have the awareness they don't, but sometimes they don't the long, really large change initiatives that take a long time and either never really get off the ground or never really where they should have gone or before they kind of just either die on the vine or we just call it, you know, just call it good. They don't draw in. It gets a group above everyone trying to lay change on top of folks instead of incorporate everyone into change and then go through it together. Learning together with someone like you that can connect the dots, connect with people, can bring that about. And think in a way it's really powerful and effective. Yeah, I was going to tease you. don't know if you have anything on that. But you mentioned books, you mentioned podcasts. Do have any favorites that you just would throw out? Classic go to book, current read, current podcast. Casey (35:01) My favorite all time book is a book called Wolf Pack by Abby Wambach. She's a soccer player, she's fantastic, and it's a book about leadership. It's like 70 pages long. It has a set of like four rules. And yeah, it's written from a like, you know, girl power, woman empowerment, leadership empowerment kind of thing, but it's universally adaptable to life, to it doesn't matter what your gender might be. what your job might be, Wolfpack. I can't recommend it enough. And then most recently, I read the let them theory and it's life changing. It's not a new topic, right? It's not a new concept. Of course you should control the things that you should stress about the things that you can control and let the things you can't control go, right? There's lots of different places that that comes up, but Mel Robbins just did a great job, like putting it into stories that you could like directly apply it to your life, or at least for me anyway. And I find myself quoting that book to myself pretty regularly. Yeah. Scott Dunn (36:03) That's a good sign. That's a really good sign. I find myself too. That's I literally will go through something. I start to realize like you've mentioned this book or this thing like three times now in the last few weeks. Like, OK, that's obviously significant. You didn't miss a time. you make another really good point. I really say like at the meta level in some ways, when it impacts you personally and you connect to it personally, it's going to be helpful and relevant in the work you do because you're going to be sharing the expression of who you are. And I say that because some people will go like, here's this top leadership book this year. I'm to read this well-known. And sometimes I'll struggle to just like really pick the book. Even if it is good content, I don't connect to it. I'm not sharing with others. It's not part. It doesn't become a home and gets spread. So I love what you're saying. Casey (36:48) completely agree with that. read, I spent a lot of time last year reading a book called Mind Your Mindset. I don't know if you've read that one. But in theory, it's great. But it's so business focused that like I didn't personally relate to it. And so I had to go find some other book that was less business structured to, to like, bolster that topic. All the words were the same. It's just the storyline really, really changes it for me. So telling stories, right, is the most important thing of how we connect. to the world. Scott Dunn (37:20) Yes, yes, yes. And I believe in that. That's how we're just wired. brains are wired. Story really sticks. And you're making me think like, yeah, those books I recommend the most are more not have a lot of stories, even if it's less directly tied to the work I do. Maybe it's not even technology. It's not even maybe it's not even around business, but it's got stories they do and stick and connect. I love that. So I'll check that out. I have not read Will Peck. I think I've seen it, but now that I know it, pages I'm also enticed to on that. I can get through it. Casey (37:52) It's one hour of your time max. Scott Dunn (37:53) us. If I can't do that over breakfast, then what's going on? Awesome. I appreciate that. This has been great. I think there's a lot of nuggets for folks that are listening. I wouldn't be surprised, by the way, that this could get chopped up into part one, part two. I think we like them. But this is great because I think it's a great part one, part two, given how we kind of split the conversations. And I love the personal aspect on that as well. So thank Thank Casey for the time. It's been wonderful. think I really look forward to people's feedback on this and a lot of takeaways, a lot of that can be, they can try out some of these things very next week in terms of how they show up and who they are and what they're about. There's just a whole lot of good pieces of this that I think are readily possible for so many people. So I really, really appreciate that too as well. I'm on automatic sites. love them. The Builder Backs, they can do something right away with that. And you gave them a lot of Thank you for that. Thank you for your time. I know you have a lot on your plate. for us, but you appreciate it. Hope to see you soon. Thanks Casey. Casey (38:54) Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. Scott Dunn (38:57) Woo!

On May 8, 2025, the MM in partnership with the Holocaust Commission of the United Jewish Federation of Tidewater and the Virginia Holocaust Museum, hosted Dr. Roger Loria, a holocaust survivor. The event was particularly poignant – it was held on the 80th anniversary of V-E Day – the day the Allies defeated Nazi Germany. A video of the presentation is also available via YouTube: https://youtu.be/nltcQ4eKIgU?si=qsTn9-DI2gZ5qp-u  Have a comment about this episode? Send us a text message! (Note: we can only read the texts, we can't reply) Follow us on:Twitter: @MacArthur1880; @AEWilliamsClarkFacebook: @MacArthurMemorialwww.macarthurmemorial.org

Welcome back to the 233rd episode of The Cup which is our a weekly (give or take, TBD, these are unprecedented times) performing arts talk show presented by Cup of Hemlock Theatre. With the theatres on a come back we offer a mix of both reviews of live shows we've seen and continued reviews of prophet productions! For our 233rd episode we have a new artist interview. This particular conversation is between our Co-Artistic Producer Ryan Borochovitz as he is joined by Tatum Lee and Lizzie Moffatt, as they're preparing to bring Wren Theatre's production of Dangerous Liaisons (Les Liaisons dangereuses) to Toronto's Annex Theatre.  Together these three discuss the topical lives of French aristocrats, non-competitive indie theatre programming, and the importance of careful intimacy direction. Dangerous Liaisons will be running at The Annex Theatre (730 Bathurst St, Toronto, ON), from May 27 to June 7, 2025. Tickets can be purchased from the following link: https://www.ticketleap.events/tickets/wren-theatre/les_liaisons_dangereuses Follow Wren Theatre – Instagram: @wrentheatre // TikTok: @wren_theatre // Website: https://www.wrentheatre.com/Follow Tatum – Instagram: @tatumlee77 Follow Lizzie – Instagram: @lizzie_moffatt  Follow Cup of Hemlock Theatre on Instagram/Facebook/Twitter: @cohtheatreIf you'd like us to review your upcoming show in Toronto, please send press invites/inquiries to coh.theatre.MM@gmail.com

Sales has become a dirty word—known for aggressive tactics, high-pressure targets, and customer frustration. MM and Zabi sit down to talk through why this doesn't work, especially in B2B SaaS.We share exactly what great sales looks like: genuine problem-solving, aligning closely with customer pain, and building real relationships. How Zipline built a strong sales culture, deep productsales collaboration, why hiring for culture matters, how product agility makes selling easier, and why we believe in rewarding high performers generously.If you're tired of traditional sales or curious how a startup like Zipline actually makes sales enjoyable and effective, listen in.P.S. Yes we're hiring for sales role right now! If this resonated, reach out!-- Check out our latest roles: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zipline-io/posts/?feedView=allConnect with Us:Michael Momsen (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/michaelmomsen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠)Zabi Rawan (linkedin.com/in/zabi-rawan)

Ped, Burk and Sconnie Jared kick off this episode discussing the new Pope...'s brother. Adam then introduces the boys to the ultimate adult summer camp, and they discuss what to bring back from their childhood as adults now. Another insane wedding story has entered the chat. Ryan would like to make an admission of his hypocrisy. Burk's mom answers questions about him for us, and the boys list the stupidest phrases going currently. In the meat, Mm!, Jared and Adam lead the show with some trivia before the boys get their blood pressure going in the 90s quick hitter. Hut Hut!Intro Music "Upbeat" by Jon Luc Hefferman (No changes  were  made)  License Link    (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/legalcode) Outro Music    "Quittin' Time" by Patrick Lee (No changes were made) License Link  (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/legalcode)

In this episode of the HODGEPOD ,  Rob Fredette welcomes special guest Michael Marco, an actor and director, to discuss his action-packed film, "Blind Blood." Michael shares insights about his journey from growing up in the south of France to becoming a filmmaker in the United States. The conversation delves into the makings of "Blind Blood," from the initial concept inspired by a personal experience, to the challenges of casting and production, and finally to the film's successful reception at various film festivals. Michael offers behind-the-scenes anecdotes about the dynamic chemistry on set, working with seasoned actors like Billy Blair and Mark Hansen, and the creative decisions that shaped the movie's intense, thriller atmosphere. The episode also reflects on the influences that shaped Michael's cinematic vision, highlighting his appreciation for classic films and the intricate process of independent filmmaking. Listeners are invited to explore "Blind Blood" on popular streaming platforms like Amazon and Tubi, and to enjoy an engaging discussion that celebrates the passion and determination behind bringing a captivating thriller to life. https://vimeo.com/michaelmarco/blindblood?share=copy Teaser & trailer: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3100432/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blindbloodmovie Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blindbloodthemovie/ MM website: https://michaelmarco.com/ RECORDED MAY 8 , 2025 HODGEPOD can heard one APPLE, SPOTIFY, IHEART, TUNEIN, AUDACY and the PODBEAN APP. Email hodgepodallin@yahoo.com

In this episode of the HODGEPOD ,  Rob Fredette welcomes special guest Michael Marco, an actor and director, to discuss his action-packed film, "Blind Blood." Michael shares insights about his journey from growing up in the south of France to becoming a filmmaker in the United States. The conversation delves into the makings of "Blind Blood," from the initial concept inspired by a personal experience, to the challenges of casting and production, and finally to the film's successful reception at various film festivals. Michael offers behind-the-scenes anecdotes about the dynamic chemistry on set, working with seasoned actors like Billy Blair and Mark Hansen, and the creative decisions that shaped the movie's intense, thriller atmosphere. The episode also reflects on the influences that shaped Michael's cinematic vision, highlighting his appreciation for classic films and the intricate process of independent filmmaking. Listeners are invited to explore "Blind Blood" on popular streaming platforms like Amazon and Tubi, and to enjoy an engaging discussion that celebrates the passion and determination behind bringing a captivating thriller to life. https://vimeo.com/michaelmarco/blindblood?share=copy Teaser & trailer: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3100432/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/blindbloodmovie Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/blindbloodthemovie/ MM website: https://michaelmarco.com/ RECORDED MAY 8 , 2025 HODGEPOD can heard one APPLE, SPOTIFY, IHEART, TUNEIN, AUDACY and the PODBEAN APP. Email hodgepodallin@yahoo.com

FAN MAIL--We would love YOUR feedback--Send us a Text MessageWhat can the pivotal moments of World War II teach us about our rapidly changing world today? Drawing from Victor Davis Hanson's masterful work "The Second World Wars," we explore how three unexpected events in 1941 transformed separate regional conflicts into a global catastrophe—and why similar world-altering shifts might be happening right now.As we recently marked the 80th anniversary of Victory in Europe Day, this episode examines why remembering this history matters more than ever. VE Day represents not just military triumph, but the defense of democracy and freedom against tyranny. For those seeking deeper understanding, we recommend Herman Wouk's epic novels "The Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance," along with the landmark documentary series "The World at War"—works that capture both the sweeping historical events and deeply personal experiences of this transformative period.Hanson's analysis reveals how technological shifts rapidly altered the course of the war, with aircraft carriers rendering battleships obsolete almost overnight. This serves as a powerful parallel to our current moment, as we face potentially world-changing developments: unprecedented political shifts in America, the election of the first American-born Pope, and an AI revolution that may require new ethical frameworks similar to how Pope Leo XIII addressed industrialization with Rerum Novarum in 1891. Are the winds of change gathering force again? This episode challenges us to learn from history's patterns so we can better navigate our increasingly uncertain future.Key Points from the Episode:• VE Day (May 8, 1945) marked Nazi Germany's defeat and remains relevant as a reminder of war's costs and democracy's value• Herman Wouk's "The Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance" provide immersive understanding of WWII through personal stories and historical context• "The World at War" documentary remains the gold standard for understanding the conflict through powerful storytelling and rare footage• World War II demonstrates how quickly technological shifts can occur - battleships became obsolete as aircraft carriers dominated naval warfare• Today's potential pivotal shifts include unprecedented US political changes, the first American-born Pope, and the AI revolution• Historical patterns suggest we may be witnessing another period of rapid transformation similar to the world-altering events of 1941Remember history so we are not blinded by those who misinterpret it, and honor the sacrifices made during World War II.Other resources: MM#231--American MasterpieceMM#234--RememberMM#257--Land Ho, The digital revolution is hereWorld at war documentary (watch the first 5 minutes)Want to leave a review? Click here, and if we earned a five-star review from you **high five and knuckle bumps**, we appreciate it greatly, thank you so much!

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Robert Leshner, and Tarun Chitra break down the biggest stories in crypto. This week, we're joined by one of the most iconic anons on Crypto Twitter: Mosi, aka @vanacharma. Known for calling out sketchy tokenomics and vaporware valuations, Mosi joins the crew for a ruthless teardown of market maker games, OTC dumps, and the “hallucination yield” driving this cycle's worst bets. From the $60M Movement Labs fiasco to OTC pump schemes and the collapse of community trust, the gang goes deep on why crypto's market structure is broken—and what it'll take to fix it. If you've ever wondered how the sausage gets made in crypto token launches, this one's for you. Show highlights

Kiera and Kristy discuss ways your practice can completely “drain the lemon” of juice (aka, financial opportunity) without becoming completely overwhelmed. This happens by identifying a goal and reverse engineering it. Kiera and Kristy give numerous examples of how this works, as well as other opportunities for hidden value in your practice. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and today is such a special day. I hope you guys are having the best day because I'm having a great day because today I'm podcasting with our one and only Kristy Treasure, one of our incredible consultants. And I am so excited to have Kristy with us. Kristy, how are you doing today?   Kristy (00:17) Gosh, it's fantastic. The first day is spring and we're gonna bring some new life to clients here. Add potential clients, right?   Kiera Dent (00:24) I agree. I completely   agree with you, Kristy And honestly, if you guys have not met Kristy, Kristy is incredible. She's been on our team. Kristy, feel is just like the queen of wanting to have these amazing practices, just hit great numbers. Kristy loves numbers. She loves to dig in. And Kristy has this like very delicate leadership style. Like I watch you and I see you just transform practices. You gain their trust, you build their trust, you help team members.   I mean, offices who've said, Kiera I only want to work with you, are working with Kristy and loving her. And so it's just really fun, Kristy, to have someone who just is so passionate about dentistry. And I'm just so happy to have you on the podcast with me today. So that's a little intro to Kristy. If you haven't met her, haven't heard from her, you definitely need to. So Kristy, love having you on our team. It's always a treasure.   Kristy (01:11) Thank you. I love being here. It's a great culture and you know what? We just have fun serving clients and that's what it's about.   Kiera Dent (01:19) We totally do. And so Kristy, I want to join the podcast today because I feel I've been watching you consult some clients and I've been seeing it's fun in our morning huddle. Don't worry guys, in Dental Team we have a morning huddle. You can tell I used to be a dental assistant, team member, that's what I do. And so Kristy, we always share client wins and it's really fun because then we can share from consultants like, hey, what are you doing really well? What things are we doing well?   And Kristy, I've been watching, she's been posting up some really fun changes that she's been able to do with practices, so much so that offices who have never been able to hit certain dollar amounts in their production, things that they never believed were possible, getting overheads like, Kristy is burning and churning and doing it, it's like, Kristy, you come in with this like delicate wave of authority and it's just beautiful. And so I kind of wanted to talk, not necessarily specific to these practices.   But I mean, offices who have never had 100 grand, Kristy's been able to help them. Offices who have never been profitable, she's been able to help them. Offices who feel like they can't get their leadership team on board, Kristy's getting them. People who say like, we'll never be able to make an operations manual. I'm watching and Kristy you're just like getting these offices to navigate along. And so I thought today would be really fun for us to talk about maybe what are some of the tips or tricks. Again, not necessarily specific to these practices, but things you see overarching that really work to add.   production to a practice or get a team bought into it. So let's start first. mean, everybody always wants to geek out on numbers. So Kristy, what are some of the things that you've found are just really successful? I mean, you're an office manager of a very, very, very successful practice. You've consulted lots and lots and lots of practices even before coming to Dental A Team. You've got some history with you. So Kristy, let's kind of share some Kristy magic of what are some of the things you've seen that really help impact numbers in a practice quickly and easily with a whole team bought into that.   Kristy (03:06) Yeah, would say first off and foremost, like obviously picking maybe the top five metrics to start working on and every doctor in office talks about production and collection. And so starting with some of the basics that they already understand, but also like.   Figuring out that point, what are we working for? Not just in a five year or 10 year range. I mean, you talk about that all the time, but also what are we looking for this year? And then reverse engineering it. Because if we don't have a point to guide to,   It's just numbers and even when we're talking percentages, we can have 100 % of collections, but is it enough to pay the bills? Is it enough to do the goals that we're reaching for as a team? So definitely it's about starting where they're at and then letting them see something bigger, if you will.   Kiera Dent (04:07) And Kristy,   I think it's such a good thing because like when teams just feel like they're only about today, right? Like it's like, here's my daily bread today, but we don't understand the bigger picture. This is oftentimes when offices get fresher and they're like, my team isn't even looking down the line. They're not taking the ownership. They're not doing any of these things. So Kristy, how do you get a team to look further down the line and not feel the overwhelm, not feel like, cause you know, you come in and start to change. How do you have some tips to navigate with team members who maybe aren't as pro?   Getting into it.   Kristy (04:38) Yeah, I would say number one, I mean, we're starting out the year, we're ending first quarter. And so to think, ⁓ I want to hit a million dollars by the end of the year. That's such a big overwhelming number that we literally break it down. We can project out where are they currently, you know,   Where are their numbers currently projected to hit at the end of the year? And then reverse engineer that. Guys, my gosh, we're only $1,000 short a week. How could we go find $1,000?   right? And do what we do. It's all in the name of getting our patients healthy. you know, let breaking it down to that simple step and letting them achieve something daily, if not weekly, and showing them it's easy. And it all relates back to our why. Why did we get into dentistry? You know, it's to serve and get our patients healthy. So when we do that, and we know where we're headed, it's really easy to achieve.   and then just start building in the goals from there.   Kiera Dent (05:46) Mm-hmm, I agree   with you because I think in dentistry is so fun I mean a million seems so hard, but let's break it down like if we really want to do I mean Let's just do some fun math here. So we're gonna do a million. All right, so some offices. They're like, I've never hit a million Let's figure out a million. I think these are fun. Kristi and I do love numbers So I hope you do and if you don't I hope you take on our mantra of like I love numbers and numbers Love me. I want the numbers to love me. So let's enjoy that. So if we have a million we divide it by 12, okay   And this is just really rough math. There's more sophisticated ways to project this. That's 83,000 per month. Let's bump it up to 84 because it's 83,333. So let's just do 84,000. So if we're at 84,000 and then we know, let's say you're a practice that is only working four days a week, that's fine. You do not need to work five days. You don't need to work six days. Let's just do a four day work week. Cause I like to prove to people and Kristy, I know you do too. We don't have to work harder. Let's just work a little smarter.   So with that, let's say it's 16 days a month. Does that make sense? You got four days a week. Most months are four weeks. I get that there's a few more, which is why this is very loose. Don't worry if you do this, you'll slush in the right direction. So what that brings it down to is 52.50 per day. Now let's say in this practice that they have two hygienists. Usually a hygienist is producing about a thousand-ish rough numbers. That's 32.50 per day for an office. And so I think Kristy agreed with you.   When we look at that and we're like, all right, if we're only scheduled to 2,700 today, where can we go find that extra $600 or $500? And it's not saying we're over diagnosing patients. What we're doing is we're looking to see, could we add in some fluoride? Could we add in that FMX? How can we do better patient care? Oh my gosh, that patient only wanted to do one filling, but they're about to get numb. And that quad of filling seems a lot more enticing because they're about to get numb. It's crazy how like, you know, when I talk to patients and they say, oh,   I think I just want to this one filling. And then when they're about to get numb, it's like, Hey, we can actually do the whole quad. And they're like, yeah, we should actually do that. It's wild. That injection, you guys never, ever, ever, ever underestimate the power of an injection. ⁓ but the reality is this is how you can look for it. This is how it becomes fun. And I think helping teams and Kristy, do an amazing job with this, helping teams have fun with this. That's the whole point of a morning huddle. We go to morning huddle to huddle. How do we win the game? Just like a huddle in basketball or huddle in football.   How do we actually win the game? Where are we at? What's that extra five? I mean, I have been shocked when offices will implement pro, ⁓ fluoride, or they'll look for FMXs. We're like doing our x-rays on normal cadences, or we're even doing our comp exams. That will add up so fast for you. Adding a sealant, adding in quad dentistry rather than single tooth dentistry. You can find these things so easily. And so, Kristy, I think you do a beautiful job of that with your practices. And I'm just curious, like,   But what happens when you have that one team member in the back who's just like not having it? What do we do with them and how do you get those team members on board?   Kristy (08:46) Yeah, number one, most team members want something more for themselves, right? Whether it's a yearly raise or I don't know, maybe the office doesn't offer insurance and they want to offer insurance. And I'm like, well, let's find a way to offer it. You know, let's figure out how much it is. What does it cost? What do we have to do to show the doctor we can earn our way to doing it? So showing them that they can also achieve what they want. mean, honestly, today I had a   a team that was talking about taking time off between Christmas and New Year and possibly paying the team for that time off and surprising them. And I'm like, well, let's reverse engineer it, find out what do we have to do to pay for that. And then we can surprise that gift ahead of time because we can measure if we're on target for it. And...   give them that, gift them that time off if you will, but just again showing team what's in it for them and relating it again back to their why they got into dentistry which was to take great care of people.   And when you do it, we all reap the rewards. And I love that you said morning huddle because nine times out of 10, we have that treatment in our schedules already. And it's just having conversations with patients in a relationship fashion.   Many people think you have to have more new patients, right? We don't need more new patients. They're in our schedule and we have the opportunity to just do more on the patients we have. And if you don't believe me, have them run their unscheduled treatment report.   Kiera Dent (10:31) Amen to you, Kristy. And I agree with you tenfold. And that's why we consult so well together. And I really love that you said like, let's show them, let's gift them, let's figure out what our team wants. And that's what's actually so fun. Like this is why I love numbers. I hated numbers because I didn't understand them. But when you realize that numbers can just be the way to get whatever you want in life. Like it's just truly this really, really fun, dreamy, like you said, if they want to take time off between Christmas and New Year's,   Fantastic, let's figure out what that production would be. Let's figure out the cost of paying all the team members. It's very simple, it's not a hard equation to do. Then let's add that amount, divide it amongst the rest of the months of the year. You can literally pay for it. So offices who wanna go on trips, offices who wanna add in bonuses, offices who wanna pay for scrubs, like you name it, all these things can be paid for. And for people listening, this isn't too overdiagnosed on the patients. It's not like we're going hunting because we're like, we wanna go on that trip.   it's we are looking for the best patient care like Kristy said. We are looking for the little opportunities that we're not doing. And every practice is like, no, we're doing all this already. Yeah, right. I promise you, I've yet to see one office who has done every single thing perfectly 110%. And so I think like, let's drop that ego as well and look to see where it can be. And Kristy, I love that you bring it. As you were talking, I'm like, Kristy to me feels like the analogy of like squeezing the juice out of the lemon or squeezing the tube of toothpaste.   And Kristy is the gal who looks at your practice and you're like, my tube of toothpaste is empty. And she's like, yeah, let me show you. got like three more months where the toothpaste in this tube, like we are squeezing it rather than just going and looking to buy a brand new tube of toothpaste. And within your practice, there's so much more opportunity to like squeeze the juice, squeeze the opportunities rather than having to look outside. Yes, we still need to work on the outside pieces too, but then when we look inside, and I think that this is where you do such a great job, Kristy like.   Kristy (12:04) Yeah.   Kiera Dent (12:25) I tell you, Kristy can turn to practice so quickly. It's been magic to watch you, Kristy I'm like, this girl comes in and she just like hangs out. She's working with the team. She's tracking the numbers and la la la la la. The doctor's like, oh my gosh, we hit this and I didn't even know that was possible. But Kristy's squeezing juice. You're looking for the juice constantly. And so I'm just curious, other squeeze the juice, squeeze the tube of toothpaste? You said like new patients, you're looking for unscheduled treatment plans.   Kristy (12:30) you   Kiera Dent (12:53) We don't need the new patients. We're looking for just little, what are some of those other opportunities, Kristy, that like I spy with my little consultant eye, what do you see in there?   Kristy (13:02) Yeah.   Obviously there's a few areas, but one of the things too when we have limited coming in how many of those do we work to convert? I mean how many times do we schedule them for a half hour appointment when really if we just schedule them for an hour and trained up our assistants to have a conversation on the front end my gosh, if we could avoid future emergencies like this while you're here We could take a look at everything come up with a plan and still treat that tooth that's bothering you right so and if they're swollen   or in pain, at least scheduling them back to make sure, hey, you know, we could avoid future emergencies like this. Let's get you back and take a look at everything, but get you out of pain today. that's one area. And again, it's just taking and using what's already there and doing what's best for the patient, right? I mean, people only lose their teeth for a few reasons. Trauma.   Kiera Dent (13:53) Mm-hmm.   Kristy (13:59) Extensive decay, you know, so if we can avoid that just like you said the power of the shot if we could avoid Future damage and more cost wouldn't you agree we should take care of it today?   Kiera Dent (14:06) Hahaha!   Mm-hmm.   Also, did   you hear what Kristy said? Wouldn't you agree? And that's a very like amazing line to take into your practice if you're not using that right now. I love the LOEs being converted into a comp exam. It is one of the most incredible things that if a practice will take this on. And so we were like, but Kiera, Kristy, they're just coming in for pain. Like they're not gonna like it. Yeah, right. A, you have to remember no one wants to come to see you. And I'm sorry, dentist, but this is the reality. And there's like 1 % of the population who's a little bit odd and they actually love to come.   But that's like truth. And so they don't wanna come anyway. They're already in pain. So let's do them a service. Let's do them a favor. Let's take pictures of their entire mouth, AKA x-rays. Let's do a full comp exam. Yes, we're gonna take care of that problem tooth. Absolutely, 100 % we're gonna do that. But odds are, and every doctor and every team member knows this, if I've got one tooth that's looking pretty wild, odds are there's probably a few other places in that mouth that are going to have the same problem come upon them pretty soon. But I think it's also,   training the front office to say this, training the clinical team on how we present this and how we can do this, but also realizing this is a huge service and benefit to a patient. No patient wants to come back. They really do not. As much as they love you and as fun as you are and as great as your coffee bar is and as fun as your movies are, being at the dentist, even for me, I had to go to the dentist and I was like, gosh, really? Like this place. And I work with dentists. Like I've been a dental assistant. People just don't enjoy having their   someone awkwardly put their hands in your mouth. It's weird. It's a weird thing that we do and yet we love it. So Kristy, I love that. What are some other ideas that you have around? Because yes, convert the limited to comps. Any other things that you have around? And again, I don't want you to give all away your Kristy Sparkle. So like what's one or two more that you have of like being able to squeeze that juice, squeeze that tube of toothpaste?   Kristy (15:59) Well, I would say many times, especially for the dentist coming in or newly starting out having firm financial arrangements, know, and it's not firm doesn't mean strict necessarily, but it's it's comprehensive finances. You know, it's it's finding a plan to get all their treatment done. Even if you're phasing it out over time, but I would say really there's usually that low hanging fruit in AR or insurance that we can   just put in simple systems that go after that and stop it bleeding into, you know, aging out, if you will. So many times that's an area to start and just look at what our processes are. How are we collecting? Are we getting the good estimates to get the correct amount collected over the counter?   Kiera Dent (16:52) Okay, so   in that, agree with you, Kristy, because a lot of times people are like, we need to make more. And I'm like, you don't even need to make more. It's just hanging out in your AR. Like you've already done the work. We just need to collect the money for it. So you mentioned making sure that when we do this, we have good treatment plan estimates, which comes from good insurance verification, which comes from good entering of that. That's gonna help a lot. What are some of the other financial policies that you've found that tend to work really, really well for practices?   Kristy (17:17) Yeah, well, let me be clear that treatment plans are different than financial arrangements. Treatment plans are what we're going to do. Financial arrangements are how are we going to take care of it? And many times people are missing the how we're going to take care of it. They're like, yeah, they know the cost. We gave them the printout. But are we really solidifying how we're going to take care of it? You know, are you the type of patient that needs   to pay over time? Are we capturing exactly what they're doing, if you will?   Kiera Dent (17:50) Yeah, which is really smart because otherwise   it's a lingering, it's are we paying with cash? Are we paying with credit card? Are we paying with financing options? What are we doing with that? That's going to firm this up and I agree as soon as that gets dialed in and people panic. Like I don't wanna put this out there. And I'm like, where do we feel like we went back to the 1800s to where it's like, just put it on my tab. Like I still do not understand why dental practices get so nervous to ask patients to pay for something that they just received.   99 % of the time in today's world, we're having to prepay for these treatments before services are done. And I feel like dentistry, let's, let's come to the playing field. Let's get a little more current. Let's get a little bit more on the same page of the rest of the world. It's not weird. It's weird. The fact that we think it's weird. That's what's weird. Like it's okay to ask patients to pay for it. It's okay to expect them to have financials before they come in for treatment. That's normal. And then what we do is for all the patients that we've been like,   lollygagging on in the past, it's okay, it's all right, there's no judgment here. Those patients we start to collect when they come in. So we start to collect on that side, we can send statements to them, we can run our AR and we get better for future and we have them sign on those financial arrangements so that way there's no confusion. The only reason patients get frustrated with you is because expectations were missed. So I love what Kristy said with these financial arrangements. It's a beautiful way to not have expectations being missed and a really good way to squeeze some juice in your practice.   to find those little missing opportunities. Kristy, you've been a freaking dream. Are there any other little like secret nuggets that you feel like you wanna leave with our audience before we say goodbye today? Because honestly, I just have loved this and I enjoy the imagery. I'm gonna like have you, every time I see you now, I'm gonna think of you like squeezing the juice. Like I'll just think of you like, Kristy's over there taking lemons into lemonade. So any other last thoughts you have as we wrap up today?   Kristy (19:32) Yeah.   Yeah, actually you mentioned the financial arrangements and I just want to challenge people. literally, I almost love the practices where they say, see you later, send me a statement and flipping them to actually getting down payments or reservation fees for appointments. Like I've watched a practice go from literally that.   Kiera Dent (19:54) Yeah.   Kristy (20:04) to, my gosh, they're so excited because they are using Pre-Collect. But I also want to flip people's thinking. Just like you said earlier about patients not wanting to stay, don't put our own bias in it. Because I hear people say, well, we'll do a reservation for large appointments. I just want to challenge you that   allow that same opportunity even for the smaller payments. If I had $500 in my savings and you offered me to pay $250 today to reserve it and $250 when I come in, I very well may appreciate having that so it doesn't drain my savings or my checking or wherever I'm pulling that money from versus, hey, you could pay $50 today and now I have $450 to pay when I come back in. So I just challenge you to, you know, try.   gamify it a little bit and have fun with it and I promise your patients will appreciate it.   Kiera Dent (21:02) Kristy, I love that you said gamify it. I think I heard once at a conference I attended and they said, business is just a game. Like it's truly a game. And when you look at it, it takes the stress out of it. think running a successful practice can be a game, not our dentistry being a game for the patients, but a game of how we think about things. I mean, I look at like chess or my brother used to play strategic or.   There was another game like Clue. loved playing Clue. That was like my favorite game. mean, I was the Clue master. I won that game all the time. I would love somebody to like challenge me on it. But the reason those games are fun is because we challenge our thinking. We think outside the box. We make it fun. And so I love, Kristy, these ideas you brought to the table today are how can we think outside the box? How can we make it fun? And I agree with you, Kristy. It's crazy how when you just change your thinking,   Just a smidge, we're not asking you to like completely and obliterate who you've been all this time, but just a smidge, you will see magic happen in your practice. You will see more patients saying yes to you. You'll see more patients scheduling. You'll see your AR being chipped down. Doctors, you'll see more money coming into your bank account. So many wonderful things this way just to change it. And I love that you said like offer it to even the smaller ones. Why not? Cause you're right. That is a benefit to these other patients. They might say no, but they also might say yes. And then collections become so much easier. So Kristy.   It was so fun to have you on the podcast. I love you on our team. I love practices who get to work with you. I always feel like practices who get to Kristy truly get just such a treat to work with you because you really do find these little simple ways to help them hit goals and possibilities that they honestly never believed was possible. So thanks for being on the podcast with me today and being on our team. Of course, and for all of you listening, thank you for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.   Kristy (22:42) Thank you.  

Kiera and Tiff share highlights from the Dental A-Team Summit — the best one yet! They touch on communication, the life cycle of a business, keeping teams energized, and more. Mark your calendars for the Dental A-Team Summit 2026! Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript:  Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera and ⁓ gosh, today's a great day. I have the one and only Spiffy Tiffy on the podcast. I feel like we're going back to like OG status here, Tiff. Like it's been a while. Welcome to the podcast. How are you?   Tiffanie (00:14) I'm good. Thank you. Luckily, Shelbi snuck a time in here for us. I mean, gosh, we've got a birthday podcast. We've got this coming up. Like we've got all kinds of stuff in the works, but I'll see you in a gear in a year. Right? That's all we get.   Kiera Dent (00:26) I know, right? See ya! See you next   May. I'll see ya. No, I love it because honestly, you and I host, we podcast, you take a lot with the consultants and so ⁓ I selfishly put you in on my day of podcasting because I miss, I miss our OG days. I miss ⁓ us hanging out. I mean, I did take us on a hike and podcast. Like that was really going back in style. Supposedly the video works. If you guys saw it, give us a thumbs up. ⁓   We were both very awkwardly uncomfortable sitting up there, but it was awesome. And the things like this, got sunburned. So that was funny when we were up there, all the pieces, but it was a good time. And I felt like this back to our original roots, Tiff. Sometimes I think we need to remember where we came from and how we got here. So, I mean, I was just talking to Shelbi and Kristy and told them about our Venmo days and how you stayed with me through all these years. If you don't know the Venmo story,   Tiffanie (00:57) There were so many courts.   I agree.   Here I am.   Kiera Dent (01:22) When Tip first started, I paid her via Venmo and Venmo has maxes if you didn't know that. Tip was a 10.99, so I paid her via Venmo. I would not recommend this. And why Tiffanie stayed with me, I don't know because the Venmo would max and I'd have to text her and be like, hey, so it's maxed out. Give me like two days. It wasn't that I didn't have money. It's just that Venmo would max. So Tip, I don't know. Like how did you feel like that wasn't a shady business? That's question number one and then we'll get into our real topic today.   Tiffanie (01:31) Thank you.   have no idea. Honestly, I don't have an answer for that. I truly just don't. I just trusted and I mean, by early on, it was like the first two months of working together and you didn't have employees yet. So I guess in the back of my mind, I was like, we're just creating the systems, like we're figuring it out. And worst case scenario, like I always, I always have a backup plan and I was still in my office. So it was like, that's fine. We're figuring this out. We're going to see how it works. And here we are almost eight years later.   Kiera Dent (01:51) Ha   you   You are.   It's incredible. Nope. Definitely not Venmo. And it was funny because I was thinking back to like startup businesses and I did a podcast with someone else and we were talking about like, I think you forget when you like go to open your second location or your third of like, ⁓ yeah. Like we had to scrap it that hard when we first started. So Tiff, thanks for, thanks for being an OG, which stands for original gangster, not oldie, but goodie, but it's okay. If you want to do Kiera's style, I had to ask Tiff.   Tiffanie (02:18) Not Venmo-ing.   Kiera Dent (02:44) a things in my life. had to educate me on a few and that was one of them. was like, Tiff, does OG stand for? And here we are. So, Tiff, I figured with you and I on the podcast today, I thought it'd be really fun. You and I just in person did our fifth summit. Can you believe five summits? Like Tiff.   Tiffanie (02:49) Luckily I'm all filtered.   No, when we had,   actually saw it on social media, on our social media. It said like, our fifth summit is coming. And I was like, oh my gosh, is that true? Like, you sent the postage on our Instagram and that's how I knew. So no, I can't believe that it was our fifth summit. It blew my mind when I saw that.   Kiera Dent (03:09) you   Yeah, it was well and there was a point in time where I debated if I wanted to keep doing summits. And the only reason that I actually went through is because we started the summits. Our first one was in 2021. And I knew I would be able to remember how many we had done because 2021 is one, two is two, and I was like, we got to keep this up. Otherwise, I'm going to really get off count. So that's why I know it's the fifth because it's 2025.   ⁓ But I think honestly, Tiff, you and I, I wanted to give some highlights. If you missed it, you missed out and you should definitely mark your calendars for next year. I will say with wild confidence and Tiff, I think you would agree of all the summits that we have put on, ⁓ this was by far, think our best production that we've ever done. I think it was our best content. I think it was our best flow. And like the feedback that we got from this summit was off the charts, like shocking how good it was. That's my opinion. Next year, it's April 24th. So if you missed us,   Tiffanie (03:45) piece.   Kiera Dent (04:14) this year, mark your calendars right now, block it out. It is a Friday. We do it for a half a day. It is CE. So you're definitely going to want to block April 24th, 2026. That's coming to you guys. But Tiff, I felt it was our best and I've got some ideas and we want to give some recaps, but what were kind of your takes on the summit this year?   Tiffanie (04:30) Yeah, I think we just got it dialed in. We take feedback every time we do anything. Every time we consult a practice one-on-one, every time we group consult practices, webinars, like anything we do. So Summit, there's always been feedback requests. And I think we've done really well narrowing it down and figuring out what the biggest requests were. I think one of the major things that played to our advantage was really getting a ton of information in a short amount of time. I think,   crammed as much in, what do we do? Like four and a half hours as we have done in a day and a half. And we did really, really well. The presentation was clean. It was crisp. had a ton of engagement and honestly, we're still getting people scheduling the calls right now. ⁓ Today you've even done some during your podcasting day. I know just to make sure that everybody's gotten the resources that we had available. And I just think it was jam packed with a ton of information and   Kiera Dent (05:02) Yeah, four and a half.   Yeah. ⁓   Tiffanie (05:28) It stacks really, really well with the consulting that we do for our one-on-one clients and for our group consulting. It just honestly played right into how all of the consultants operate with all of our clients. So it was fantastic. I agree.   Kiera Dent (05:42) Yeah, I thought it and I agree with you. think it was, ⁓ I think we really dug into this extraordinary and something Tiff, you and I, this was Tiff's vision. So Kiera's vision was summit, Tiff's vision were these in-person like doctor, leadership, masterminds. And you have been pushing me for probably what? Like four five years to do this. Like it has been, we're at five years then. It's been a solid push. I remember the day this came about, I think you do too. were, ⁓   Tiffanie (05:59) Bye as long as we've been doing summit.   Kiera Dent (06:08) definitely team was on a budget back in the day. And I still think to this day, even not on a budget tip and I would still do this. We're sharing a hotel room and we were sitting there chatting late at night. And I remember Tiff, you're like, Kiera, I have this vision of these in-person events where we get all our doctors together and we do like life and we do business. And I was like, I see it. And then you're like, and I also think we should have a coffee shop. Like it was like both mixed into one. I think the coffee shop also threw me cause I'm like, how are we going to do all that?   Tiffanie (06:29) I'm   you   Kiera Dent (06:37) But we literally came to it, by the way, just highlighting, you're in the blue shirt, I'm in the pink shirt today. How perfect is that? If you guys don't know, this is another vision. Tiff and I aren't going to be 90, 90 plus year old grannies. We have the same birthday. I'm gonna be cotton candy pink, Tiff's gonna be cotton candy blue. So whenever we show up this way, it always makes me giggle just how in sync we always are. But back to our vision of these in-person that Tiff had, I think it played into our summit of we're really getting intentional of like,   Tiffanie (06:56) You can have steak.   Kiera Dent (07:06) life on purpose and business on purpose. And so this year's theme was ⁓ unlocking, gosh, was unlocking extraordinary leadership and profitability. And what we wanted to do is I get really annoyed as a CEO when I do CE and it just is coming to me as the owner to then take it back and rally TIF. And honestly, when I've tried to come back and rally the whole team, I just noticed there was this disconnect. And I think as a company, we've always had this vision of like, it's dental, it's doctors and team. Like, look at our name.   Dental A Team doctors and team, like it really flies together. And so being able to bring teams together and doctors together in your office, in your space, but teach you life skills and dental skills. And Tiff, know like when you go to offices, people tell you all the time, like how grateful they are. You teach them life through dentistry. Like walk me through why you do that, how you do it. I know it's just like who you are as your DNA, but I think that's why you have so much passion for what we do.   Tiffanie (08:00) Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. I truly believe that ⁓ if I can create passion in someone for what they do for a living, that they'll stay lifelong. think that, I don't know. I don't know, Kara. I think, like you said, it's just naturally ingrained in me. It's just who I am. I take a lot of...   what I learn personally, and I duplicate that and I kind of like copy and paste it onto who I am as a as a team member and as an employee because I don't believe I hate the term work life balance. ⁓ I have like a Jars and crazy because I live one life I have one life and I have different spaces of life for sure. But if I 100 % show up differently in every space of life, I'm going to feel like I'm running ragged. So if I can look at   Kiera Dent (08:31) Ha ha!   Mm-hmm.   Tiffanie (08:48) relationships as just relationships. And then there's the stack of like, intimate versus friendship, like for sure, there's that deviation. But if I can treat every relationship with the same basics, and communication with the same basics, then I'm not confusing myself. I'm not trying to be something I'm not, and I'm not working harder. You know, I love easy, you know, I love   nothing more than defined efficiencies. And like, that's a major efficiency in my life is really being able to stack a belief that I have and then copy and paste it into work. So the way that I communicate with you is the same way that I communicate with my boyfriend, Aaron, or my son Brody. It just, I'm using different words ⁓ to get a different, to get a point across. So when I go into practices and I work with teams and I work with doctors, that's the kind of stuff that I leave them.   So when I'm speaking about how we can communicate, I'm also mixing in how those communication tools not only have helped our company and UNI's communication tenfold, but also   how it helps me and my personal relationships at home. So I constantly, I think if you polled all of my offices, I don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't know who Brody is. He secretly probably hates that. He gets hellos, gets birthday cards, all these things. But I utilize him as such an example for how we can show up for our families and for our kids using the same tools. And so when I walk away and teams are saying that, they're saying, my gosh, Tiff, like.   Kiera Dent (10:00) Mm.   Mm-hmm.   Tiffanie (10:17) I went home and I talked to my husband last night and I had the first real conversation that I've been able to have with him in forever because I listened, because I used the tools that you told me to use on patients. So the way that you're listening to a patient, the way that you're putting your ego aside and allowing your patient to be the most important.   person in the room, sometimes we have to put that aside and allow our spouse to be the most important person in the room for the time being and have a conversation instead of having a telling where we kind of just sit and we just talk at each other. We're not actually listening. We're not actively engaged and jumping to the assumptions, all those pieces. So I think that's how I do it. And then I want like mass scale of that because I can only hit so many, so many people one-on-one.   And I think that's something that you and I have envisioned for the company for a really long time. We know that there's a limit of how many teams and how many doctors each consultant can affect. So being able to take these pieces and these skills and these developments that do smash life and work together on a mass scale like summit or these in-person events that we're doing now for our doctors and our leaders was really something that I think spoke to both of us to be able to just   get the message out, get things changed on a mass scale.   Kiera Dent (11:32) Totally. And I think that that just ties right into our vision of Dental A Team is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And we do that through expert consulting for dentists and teams. And you're right. Like it's funny, we always run into these zones of like, we've hit the ceiling, we've hit the ceiling of where we are. So how do we like turn and pivot and give more? Because as you were saying that I might actually think that that's the secret sauce to Dental A Team. I think we focus on life and business. We focus on you as a human and we do it through dentistry and like dentistry is our vehicle.   What did I say the other day? said, ⁓ life is my passion, dentistry is my avenue. And so really, or our platform. So we're able to come and like help you have this amazing life. And that's, think what all the summit was about. Like it was literally, how do we do this? And so we walked the participants through like, what does extraordinary mean to you? And so if you attended the summit, hopefully this is a good like analysis and like, how did you do and how are you doing? And kudos to all those who joined our Dental A Team family. By far, this was our best year of welcoming new offices in. And I think it just spoke to like,   the flow that we were in and the mission that we're about. And we really brought in our Dental A Team Success model and we call it the Yes Model. So you can say yes to more things in your life, to whatever you want. And the Y stands for you as a person and the E stands for earnings and profitability. The S stands for systems and team development. And when you add those three components together, you get success with E's. And Tiff, I think the U part was probably my favorite and funniest part of the entire thing we went through. There are these little.   human beings that we draw and we like break up all the parts of our life and Tiff did one of the funniest things she's ever done in front of me. And we were we were looking at her like current life and how her time was split up. And she'd never done this exercise. I was so excited to do it with her in real life. And then Tiff tell about your ideal life and what ⁓ what we uncovered. So like, okay, let me just give the vigil. Basically, what the idea was, and you can try this is you take like a little image of you as a human and you break it apart and you you look to see   like in your day in and day out life, just like Tiff said, it's not, we're breaking apart, like you, your life and your work balance, but it was like, how are you spending your time, cut up on a human body? kind of like, like if you think about those cows and they have like the meat chunks, like drawn out of them, like here's the filet, here's the ribeye, like kind of like that, but on you of like, where's my work? Where's my family? Where's my friends? Where's my hobbies? Where's my working out? Like whatever's important to you and like how much of your physical body, like in a visual of your full life,   How much of that are we spending in different areas and what does it look like? Like it's a really awesome, if you didn't get to participate in it, it was real fun. And then what we do, and we had like two little, little images next to each other. And then on the other side, we said, okay, this is what you're doing currently and this is what real life looks like. What would your ideal life look like? Like, what would you want to spend? Like, where would you put this? And it's so fascinating because where people put things, it actually says a lot about them. Like what you put on the legs and what you put on the feet and what you put on the arms and what you put across your heart, what you put on your head. Like it really helps to identify things. But tip.   Go ahead, take this away as long as you're not embarrassed by it, because it was so freaking funny of how this shook out in real time.   Tiffanie (14:30) I mean, I've got   hundreds of people already, so why not just ramp it up? Now we've got thousands, I guess. That's fine. No, I never, nothing's, no, maybe some things are too far, I guess, but I'm an open book. So it was actually, it was really, really cool. And I had not done it yet. I've done other things similar to it. Even we have done similar things to it, but just really looking at   Kiera Dent (14:37) Why not? Here we go.   Tiffanie (14:56) I took it as like my vision of where I wanted my life to be. And then like, what is going to propel me there? Like what aspects of life and relationships, et cetera, will propel me to that vision? So kind of what we did in person in March. Yeah.   Kiera Dent (15:08) And kudos to you, Tiff, because that's what it's supposed to be. Like it's literally   helping you see like, okay, where am I spending it? And then where do I want to become? And the idea is to help you visualize your future, but also take it in as an identity of you to help you actually see how you yourself is that identity of the future vision. So huge kudos. Tiffanie got it. That was the idea behind it. That's why we put it in a human form for you. It kind of looks weird. Like they like these weird little doll. I don't know. Like they look weird. We still are trying to work on it.   Tiffanie (15:34) She likes to call them voodoo   dolls. They're funny.   Kiera Dent (15:36) Shush, don't   say that. That's really going dark, Tiff. Go on, go on. She's sharing all my secrets.   Tiffanie (15:41) you call them them. So maybe don't tell me those things because I'm an   open book apparently. So we did the first one and I was like, well, it was really good. It was enlightening. It was actually really cool. And afterwards, I keep thinking about like where things were in order with my chakras and all of that stuff that, you know, I'm obsessed with. So it really made a huge difference there. But I did my first one. And then what I did is I folded the paper. They're both on the same piece of paper. And I was like, I don't want my   Kiera Dent (15:48) Bye!   Mm-hmm.   Tiffanie (16:11) current layout to impact what I want my what I'm desiring. Right. So I folded in half so I couldn't see my current layout. Well, what that did was took away from my brain the pieces that I had on there. And I had everything on my future one on my what I want my ideal. I had everything duplicated on there just like different spaces except I forgot to put work on there.   So work got removed from my life. I don't know when this is happening, ⁓ but apparently, I don't know. I said, you know what, it's just because I don't have a work-life balance. I just have life and work is just integrated into every piece of my life because I enjoy it so much. So yeah, it was a really humorous event ⁓ during summit. know somebody said in one of the chats, what was it? Best resignation letter ever.   Kiera Dent (16:44) you   you   Yeah. Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm. Exactly.   Tiffanie (17:07) I was like, my gosh, that's   hilarious. That's amazing. So it was, it was funny. think that, I think that I have this innate ability to think of my life as what I want it to be and work supports it. And whatever it is that I'm doing, I make sure that I'm passionate about the avenues that I'm taking. I think that's why I do include so much life because life   like coaching and those pieces have just helped me so much in my personal life. And so as I looked at it and as I thought back about it, I'm like, gosh, it's just that those are the pieces that are insanely important to me and work is insanely important to me. But work is what propels those pieces in a lot of ways for me. And so thinking about like the amount of time separated out, I think just didn't feel right. You know what I mean? On that one, but it was hilarious. It was a great moment. If you were there.   Kiera Dent (17:58) Mm hmm. It was really funny. It was really entertaining.   Tiffanie (18:03) Yeah, it was super interesting.   Kiera Dent (18:03) It was super entertaining. And it was it. But I think as you just said it, Tiff, and I didn't think about this at the time, I actually think it's awesome that your identity is not work. And I think that you as a human, like work is a part of it, life is a part of it. But work is not an identity piece of who you are. And I think that's been the case for so long. And I think for me, like work was such a huge identity piece for me that like we shifted it to where   it's not work and actually changed what I view about the company and now the company is my passion project. And so it gets lumped into my passions more so than it gets lumped into work. And it's even interesting the language. And so we really went through these pieces and it was awesome to go through and tip. Thanks for sharing that. And I just think like such a good visual. ⁓ it was funny because I was like, so tip, is this your resignation letter? Like on live screen and she's like, it's not, I promise. Like things are good.   ⁓ But it was, it was quite interesting. And then we also went through like the life cycle of a business. And I think that actually was so telling. We pulled that from Tony Robbins and like, where are you on the life cycle of a business as you as a human? And it's been interesting is when we've talked to people post summit, they've said that that helps them just so much to see like, my gosh, like me as a human, I may be further along, but my business is at like this toddler stage. And so I need to hire people that are more in this younger energetic space because I'm over here on the other side, or I need to like,   kick it up and have this, or maybe my team is on this further side where they're maybe closer to retirement, but me as a new owner, I'm actually not there. And I thought it was just such an interesting spot for them to see where they were. And then of course we dug into the earnings, the money. So we walked through them through like profitability and overhead calculator and your monthly cost expenses. And then how do you figure this out? And how do you become profitable? And ⁓ really helping them see how like your supplies and your costs and your overhead directly impact your profit. And then   a couple quick ways for you to actually watch this, and that's through a KPI scorecard, and then also giving you then the systems, and we purposely hit two systems within, like we had you assess 12 systems on a 12 monthly basis, so that way you can keep them as a cadence, but then really diving into a couple that will boost your profitability and help your patients, and that was through block scheduling and case acceptance. So just a really fun way, and then after that, we hit.   Some of my favorite parts and some parts that people really loved, like I thought it was interesting when we went through like enemies of efficiency and the delegation ladder and like, where are you at and how much are you delegating? So many people said like, my name was in all these tiers of the delegation ladder. And then we actually went through case studies, like what are, like looking at hundreds and thousands of practices, I loved this part so much Tiff and we brought to the table like, what are the characteristics of these extraordinary leaders?   for teams and for owners. And then what are the ones of the not so good? Like it is not hard when we walk into a practice, when we look at these leaders, we can usually see, are they going to be successful or are they not within very short amount of time and even talking to them on the phone. ⁓ And so being able to go through that. I think just like the way it all stacked of like looking at you as a person, looking at your business, looking how they combine together and not be separated. And then like, shoot enemies of efficiency delegation, like just so many nuggets. And if you missed it,   reach out. There might be some things that we could share with you guys, but I hope you put it your calendar because I think one people left there inspired and excited. I've had people like I saw an office right after and they said, Kiera, like what you guys put together was so helpful and so impactful. And like I was able to take things and have tactical and like people had their teams there and they're like you teaching my team to think about our practice as a business, but also as a patient centered focus and also as us as humans, like   Where do you get that in CE anywhere else? And Tiff, really truly think that that's the secret sauce of what we've tried to create and what we have created for all these practices. So that's kind of like my nutshell of like, love the case studies. I love sharing what people do. Like I loved going through leadership and like the good and the not so good. And we actually had people like put in there, like, what do think good leaders are? And what do you think bad leaders are? And like the not so influential ones. And to see, because there are truly patterns and to like figure out the pattern and DNA of these great practices so you can go model and mirror it.   I just think was like freaking magic to share with people because we see it. They don't necessarily get to see it day in and day out.   Tiffanie (22:12) Yeah, I totally agree. ⁓ I always tell my practices, my and my doctors, that my biggest goal is that the business works for them, not them working for the business. And I think the tools that we shared with them and the things that they could take home, the communication tools, the efficiency tools, all of those like, yes, models, everything that we sent them away with are easily, easily implemented, and will propel towards that goal where the business literally is supporting   your life and maybe, you know, right now today on your current little man, your little person, your, you know, work, your business might be a large portion of that human being. And it was for us for a long time because it had to be, it was a space that   We had to create that and we had to show up every day for the business so that eventually the business could show up for us. And I think we've gotten to the point now, both of us where this company and this business and the people that we have here with us on our side are supporting that vision and really things have started to shift. So on the life cycle of a business, like you might be in that stage where you are hungry to get your business running off the ground and you might be putting more in there than your future self wants. But guess what? If you know that vision, it's   super clear, you can make your business work for you so that you're not constantly working for your business and eventually it will turn   Kiera Dent (23:34) And I think it's just a to me that's like what gets us excited like I love giving people their life back I love like tiff as much as I give you a hard time about having work off of there That was not the case a year ago Like you were stressed out of your mind about work And I think it would have taken a huge chunk and I was stressed a year ago about work too like I think it was a huge portion of our time our mental energy and I think like you and I have both helped each other get our lives back. I think that we are happier humans now   And so we're living proof of it, but then also to give practices their lives back, to give teams their lives back to, like there's an office that I'm super excited we're working with. And they said like, I'm sober out. feel like, and like the whole leadership team, they're like, we're the ones who are here after hours. We're the ones that are here before. We're the ones who are like, just they're like exhausted. They're like ringing a rag out and then you squeeze it even more trying to get like the last two drops of life out of them. And I said,   What would it be like if I told you that if you got out of here every day at five o'clock, you're not allowed to stay later, you're not allowed to come in earlier. And at the end of that week, you'd be able to go on a trip to Cabo or wherever you want to go, pick your dream location, Hawaii, the Caribbean. I don't care. You choose your place. Or if you want like, I don't know, say 50,000 bucks or whatever it is, could you get out on time? And they were all like, yes. And I said, so A, we know it's possible and B,   that's getting your life back. So first homework assignment working with us is everyone's out the door by five, at least one day this week. And it's crazy because just small little changes that don't seem huge help people get their life back. And Tiff, it was just so magical to be with you and to be in person with you and to present and to give this. And I think that that's probably why we were both so excited from it. Like we, felt like we were in Taylor Swift. Let me just give a little Swiftie, like the lavender haze. I felt like we were in the Dental A Team haze after the summit of just the   Tiffanie (25:19) Thank   Kiera Dent (25:23) euphoria of knowing we were able to give people their life back, their teams getting energized, giving them hope and excitement. Again, not just about a practice, but about a life. So those are kind of my takeaways to have any last thoughts you have, because I loved it. I'm so grateful you were a part of it. ⁓ Ride or die, cotton candy pink and blue for life, like truly just being able to deliver our magic and to change lives and to bless them through dentistry, I think is something that we both... ⁓   I think I took for granted for a hot minute and realized like what a beautiful blessing it is in the way we're doing it now versus stringing ourselves up to dry, doing it so hard, now doing it through passion and ease and flow rather than through force and pull like we did in the past.   Tiffanie (26:04) I agree. Yeah, I totally agree. I did all of that. And I think having the team that we have behind us, the consultants who are here and they are so excited to help so many new clients this week, we have just seen such an influx of people ready to change their lives, ready to change what their business model looks like. And like you said, get their lives back. It's been just really incredible and watching our consulting team just rise to the occasion rally. I mean, we've got clients that just signed up this week that I've got Trish and Kristy and   Dana has already implemented tools. Dana has already within weeks found significant money issues and things going on that it's just really cool to be able to watch so many people outside of you and I be able to truly transform lives. And that's what that's what we're all about is really just creating the best for everyone that's involved.   Kiera Dent (26:57) Yeah, Div, I love it and I agree. Our consultants are second to none. And so if you missed out, you did miss out. And put it on your calendar for next year. I do believe that Dental A Team Summit is next to none. We just have so much fun. We bring fun to CE and we make it enjoyable and easy. But I hope you choose to join us next year for sure.   But if you're thinking like what we just talked about, you want to know more about, or you want some tips for it, or you want some of the resources that we share, reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. We'll happily like assess it with you and your practice. Like we have given so many tools out and so much help to all these practices, but I think truly giving you your life back, helping you help more patients and having more fun is what we're about. So Tip, thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks for doing Summit with me. ⁓ I enjoyed it and I just appreciate and adore you so much as a human and as a colleague, as a coworker, as a mentor, and just being in my life.   for who you are. So thanks for being here today. I super appreciate you.   Tiffanie (27:48) Thank you. Thank you for having me and supporting me through my journey.   Kiera Dent (27:52) And for all of you listening, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUicR1InL2s Episode Description Heather Shea shares how working in a women's center and bringing feminist icon Gloria Steinem to campus shaped her personal, political, and professional journey. She reflects on the enduring need for activism and advocacy in women and gender equity centers. Suggested APA Citation Gardner, H. (Host). (2025, May 14) Here's the Story: "Meeting Gloria, Finding Myself" (No. 270) [Audio podcast episode]. In Student Affairs NOW. https://studentaffairsnow.com/meeting-gloria-finding-myself/ Episode Transcript Helena GardnerWelcome to Here's the Story, a show that brings Student Affairs to life by sharing the authentic voices and lived experiences of those who are shaping the field every day as part of the Student Affairs now family, we're dedicated to serving and furthering the people who walk the walk, talk to talk and carry the walk that all of us find ourselves doing who work in Student Affairs in Higher Education. You can find us at studentaffairsnow.com, or directly at studentaffairsnow.com/heresthestory, or YouTube or anywhere you enjoy podcast, I like to start off by thanking today's sponsor Huron. Huron's education and research experts help institutions transform their strategy, operations, technology and culture to foster innovation, financial health and student success. I get to be your host today, Helena Gardner, and my pronouns are she? Her, her, and I serve as the Director of Residence, education and housing services at Michigan, Michigan State University. I live my life as a mom, a sister, a daughter, a friend and a mentor. I'm with you today from the ancestral, traditional contemporary lands of the Anishinabe three fires, confederacy of Ojibwa, Ottawa and Potawatomi peoples. The university resides on land seated in the 1819, treaty of Saginaw, home to Michigan State University. And I'm going to toss it to my co-host. Neil E. GolemoHowdy. My name is Neil Golemo. I use he, him pronouns, and I am blessed to serve as the Director of Campus Living Learning and Texas A name's Sonny Galveston campus, and I'm just over here living hard and making it look easy, Helena Gardnermaking it look easy now, because today, today, we have a special guest for you. Today. Want to introduce to you, Heather. Shea, you may be familiar with Heather. Shea, we see her often on Student Affairs NOW, kind of a big deal. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of a big deal. Like, kind of a big deal, like, we got a special guest today. I'm really excited. I have the pleasure of seeing Heather probably a little bit more often in real life on campus, as we get to be great colleagues doing this thing at Michigan State. Don't know, welcome Heather. Share whatever you want to share about you. And we're real curious what you gotta say today, so you let us know, and then we will get started. Alright. Heather SheaWell, it's so great to be here. Thank you for the invitation and for all of the work that the three of you are doing to create this, this amazing podcast, I think it's just such a powerful way of bringing the field to life, right? Because we are nothing if we are not the stories that have have shaped us. So I Yes, work at Michigan State, alongside Helena. I have been here since 2013 but before that, I lived in the West. As I like to say, I'm from the west. My originally born and raised in Colorado, moved to Arizona, then moved to Idaho, which is where I was right before coming to Michigan State, which Idaho will play prominently in my story that I'm going to share with you all today. Helena GardnerAlright. Well, Heather, we so you do this, and we typically see you get into our scholarly and practitioner land. Mm, hmm. And so, you know, tell us a story from the heavenly Alright, with that slide, all right. Heather SheaWell, this is the story about how I met feminist icon Gloria Steinem. And I'm going to share this story because it was one of the probably most um.

In this episode Ronald Davis shares his powerful story of overcoming abuse and finding healing through prayer. Ronald discusses his tumultuous first marriage, the deep impact of his relationship with God, and how intense prayer and faith led him to forgiveness and restoration. Diana and Ronald also explore the challenges men face in abusive relationships and the often inadequate support from religious communities. Ronald introduces his book, 'Thy Kingdom Come,' which delves into the transformative power of prayer and its role in personal and spiritual growth. 00:00 Sponsor Message: 7 5 3 Academy 00:48 Introduction to the Podcast 01:22 Diana's New Camera and Podcast Updates 02:26 Introducing Today's Guest: Ronald Davis 06:43 Ronald Davis' Background and Journey 08:04 Ronald's Early Life and Spiritual Awakening 10:59 Understanding Prayer and Its Importance 12:40 Ronald's First Marriage and Struggles 17:02 Healing and Restoration Through Prayer 21:12 Challenges Faced by Male Abuse Survivors 25:27 The Church's Role in Addressing Abuse 27:54 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser   Thy Kingdom Come: The Purpose and Power of Prayer thykingdomcomebook.com   Bio:  Ronald Davis has been preaching the Gospel since his teenage years, driven by a deep passion for spreading the message of the Kingdom of God. With decades of ministry experience, he is known for his dynamic teaching and unwavering commitment to advancing God's Kingdom on earth. As the founder of Kingdom Truth Global, Apostle Davis equips believers worldwide with biblical truths, empowering them to live out their faith and walk in their God-given purpose. His life's mission is to see lives transformed by the power of the Kingdom and to raise up leaders who will impact the world for Christ.  Website: https://dswministries.org Email: diana@dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/   Ronald Davis Part One [00:00:00] Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, Diana Winkler. She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hi everyone. How are you today? I'm glad that you're here with me for those that are watching on YouTube. I have a new camera today. Um, My old one, kind of, bit the dust and just got a new one. So hope I'm looking good for you guys. It's definitely high definition for sure. You could see my face very [00:01:00] clearly, probably too clearly. I could see my flaws, imperfections, whatnot. But hey, I'm an authentic person. There's no filters on here. I. Yes, this is my skin. I've not done any work to it. No Botox, nothing like that. It's just me. I don't use AI for very much at all for the podcast. I I just started using it for maybe summarizing show notes, but that's pretty much it. But anyway, that's what's new here on the show. I do have a great guest for you today. Those of you that have been listening for a long time on the podcast, we've had Shayna Rattler back on episode six. Yeah, that was second season, talking about what is a God shift. Well, she contacted [00:02:00] me and said her husband has written a new book about prayer and that she asked if I would have him on the podcast. So me and Shana had such a great time that I was happy to have her husband Ronald Davis on the show. He is a survivor of abuse from, looks like his first wife. I. His journey in prayer helped him to heal and prepare him for what God had next for him. So we're gonna be talking about his upbringing and his ministry. Of course, his story of abuse and how prayer played a big part in his recovery, and that's something that we all need more of is prayer. Such a touchy topic for a survivor to talk. We're a survivor because we were going through this [00:03:00] transition of going through all this abuse and coming out of it, and. Abuse always affects our relationship with God, especially our communication with God. Many of us are on the couch or we're not really sure about where do I stand on the subject of my faith? And that's okay. That's what the podcast is for, is we talk about these topics and we wrestle together for the answers. What does the Bible say about prayer? How does God feel about us? He wants to communicate with us and fellowship with us, and yes, we are asking for things with prayer, but we're also sometimes just sitting and listening and it's hard after you've been through an abusive. Relationship or you're still in one, it's hard to hear God's voice in the midst [00:04:00] of the noise around you. So we're gonna definitely talk that out today. So, Ronald's book is called Thy Kingdom Come, the Purpose and Power of Prayer, and you can purchase that on Amazon. I am gonna include the link in the show notes, of course. So I'll read what the book's about here. In this book, Ronald Davis takes you on a transformative journey into the heart of God's kingdom and the undeniable role of prayer in unlocking its power. This book is more than just a guide. It is a called a Deeper Intimacy with God, a rediscovery of identity, and an invitation to experience the fullness of his purpose for your life. Through insightful revelation and biblical reference, you'll explore the different dimensions of prayer and how to communicate with God effectively. Learn the key stages [00:05:00] of personal and spiritual transformation that align you with God's will. Understand the foundational connection between knowing your identity in Christ and walking in kingdom power. Discover the life-changing impact of intimacy with God on every area of your life. Whether you're a new believer or a seasoned leader, thy kingdom come, will empower you to deepen your relationship with God and live out his kingdom purpose in every aspect of your life. Embrace the power of prayer. Embrace the purpose of the kingdom. Let your life be a reflection of his glory. All right, sounds pretty good. so enjoy my conversation with Ronald Davis, I'm so excited to welcome Ronald Davis on the show. Thank you for coming on [00:06:00] today. Oh, you're, you're welcome. I definitely an honor to be here. I appreciate you having me. So I was saying to the audience before you came on that. You are Shayna Rattler Davis's husband. So when she reached out, it was very exciting that you wrote a book about prayer and that you'd like to come on the show. So any friend of Shayna is a friend of mine. So you said you were only married for five months? So far? Yes. Alright. How did you guys meet? Well, believe it or not a mutual mentor of ours he reached out to me one day and he said he said he wanted to introduce me to someone. He said, he thought about her about a year or so ago before he called me. He said, when he thought of her, he thought of me, but he knew at that time that I wasn't. By the leadership of the Holy Spirit. He just knew it wasn't time yet. So after a year or so, and what's funny is during that year I was in a deep [00:07:00] consecration and fasting before the Lord and seeking God. So after the year of that is when he called me and, he felt like it was now that time to make that introduction. And once we met it, we've just been inseparable ever since. Oh, that sounds fun. Now I'd like to get into a little bit about your history, your ministry how you were raised. Were you raised in a Christian home? I was. I was raised in a Christian home. But I was also raised in a very low income area. So it was two different worlds I was exposed to. My mom kept us in church, I got home to a father that was strung out on crack cocaine. And I had older brothers and siblings that were also contributors of drugs. So I was like, I lived in a house in an environment of, drugs and fighting and, just being exposed to gangs and that lifestyle, that street lifestyle, that, the hood lifestyle where people would refer to it as but my [00:08:00] mom put us in church, so we knew all the Bible stories, we used to receive prophecies as children. I remember receiving a prophecy that I was gonna be a preacher, my mom would threw it at my face at times. But when I was acting a fool and I wanted to do my own thing, but now look, I'm now writing books and glorifying Jesus many years later. But yeah, so that's kind of short version of my my household coming up. When did you meet the Lord? So I became serious about my relationship with God when I was about 16 years old, so from the time of, I'd say about 12, my mom stopped making us go to church, and I got more involved in like, as a young person in streets, sinning , using drugs, trying to sell drugs, trying to, adapt this lifestyle that I was, that was around me. I was, I was never a good fit for it, though, I'll be honest. I'd do wrong and feel bad, it just wasn't a good fit for me. I always knew my whole life that I was different. I remember having the gun put to my face and and I was about 14, 15 years old. And if there was ever a time ever heard [00:09:00] the first time I ever heard the voice of God, it was that day I could hear as clear as day, you can't die. I got work for you to do. Mm. And I wasn't even saved at the time, but that moment stuck with me to, to this very day. So I knew the hand of God was on my life, maybe 'cause of the upbringing in church. But I always knew God's hand was on my life, but I just thought it would be later in life that I would serve the Lord. But at 16, I went to a revival. Well, just before I turned 16, I went to the revival and I seen people being healed. I seen children giving their lives to Christ, and the message was powerful, and the man of God was amazing. And I wanted to be a part of what the Lord was doing. So, I, did antar call and I gave my life to Christ. And my life changed. People in my, my neighborhood saw me change. My school seen me change, so I went to being this bad kid in school to being the kid who was preaching in the hallways, telling people about Jesus. So it was a wonderful experience. I mean, and it's been a journey like everyone else, after we get saved, even that's sometimes when the story really begins, [00:10:00] right. Yeah. I love hearing people's stories of how they came to Christ. They're all different in yours is, exception. When you came to Christ when was the first time you actually understood the concept of prayer? I mean, talking to God, was that a natural thing for you or a foreign concept? Well, we've always taught, prayer in, in, in the church, but they didn't teach prayer like I know prayer now. They taught us we should pray. Mm-hmm. But they didn't really model prayer. I didn't know the way of consistent prayer. I didn't know the way of long prayer. So I would say my little daily prayers and as a young believer, just a level of zeal and hunger that we have for God. So we spend a lot more time, praying, even not praying as much as I do now, but I, what I thought prayer was, I did it to the best of my ability, but more so for me, I was given to the word of the Lord, like my first few years of salvation. I would read the [00:11:00] Bible for hours. That was my way of communing with God. This, studying the scriptures. So, by the time I was 18 years old, I was reading Systematic Theology by Charles Hodge. I was like, I was going deep in theology and breaking down the, historical background of the text. So before I was even 20, you would think I had went to seminary and I never did. I just was so deep in the word. So that was the journey that God took me first. He, it's almost like he wanted me to get that word foundation. And then, my journey into prayer as far as the place of prayer that I'm in now is, was relatively later in life. So from that point, I have that book, that systematic theology book. It's wonderful. Had I had that through Bible college. So, definitely got a lot of meat in that book. I still have it on my shelf. I do know that you were married before to your first wife. Tell us as much as you're comfortable [00:12:00] with what happened there? How did you meet her and what was the relationship like with her? Absolutely. So, that's a long story. I would give you the short version of it, oh yeah. Whatever you wanna do. I met my wife, in the church community, so we known each other from church. We served each other, we served each other in ministry. We took a liking to each other. I was really strong in the word, strong in theology. She had a strong prophetic gift and it seemed like we were just a good fit, the things that I would be studying, she would know by intuition. Like she just know by prophetically. And I said very gifted. And then, I was very rich in the word, but I wouldn't consider myself like as prophetic as I am now, and so, make a long story short, when we kind of took a liking to each other and we decided to get married, that's when the journey really began where I realized that you can have extremely gifted [00:13:00] people. But hurt people, hurt people. That's not just a cliche. It is actually true when the people have deeply rooted issues. It's hard for them to be loved, and it's hard for them to love. So, we had went through a season, when I first, I remember the first encounter where we got into an argument, a disagreement. And before you know it, somebody's throwing a blow. I mean, got punched in my face and I was in shock because this, this woman of God, this person I've just married, who I was so excited about, I think so highly of, lost control. So, and when the things ,first stuff like this start happening, obviously you're in shock, but then because we're Christians, we try to be forgiving as much as possible. Now we're in this marriage, we don't believe in divorce. So you figure, okay, I'm gonna love her through her pain, and many people think this, I'm gonna love them through it, but in all actuality, it's like, if two people get some serious help. You can't love them through it. It just sets the stage for [00:14:00] continuous abuse later. ' you know what? You may not want it, but if you tolerate it over time, what happens is now you'll begin to see yourself unconsciously as one that's worthy of such behavior. You know what I'm saying? Because what tells me that you feel like it's okay is because you stay. And I'll come back to that point later. But anyway, make a long story short, there was physical abuse, there was emotional abuse, there was psychological spiritual abuse. There was a lot of different things going on. And I'm not by any means trying to paint the picture that I was perfect in this marriage. 'cause I wasn't. Right. Right. I was developing, I wasn't as secure. In my prayer life as I am now. So I was doing a lot mm-hmm. Religiously, I was doing a lot trying to figure it out. I was doing a lot in the name of trying to love a person through it. I went through seven years of a marriage and I can't remember nine months of, 90 [00:15:00] days of consecutive peace. Yeah. I understand that. It was hard. Every, me too, it was just so hard. And as much as you prayed, as much as you tried to get through it, it's like it was always something, something just was never, it was never good enough. So after that, after everything we went through and the different financial hardship, that was the only source of income. There's a lot. I don't gimme the short version of the story, but there was a lot that I suffered. There was a lot that she suffered. There was a lot that we went through together trying to make it work and it got to the point which eventually we separated due to financial hardship. And in that separation. She blocked. I was blocked. I couldn't see my daughter. Blocked me on that, all the emails. And one thing I noticed about certain people with abusive personalities is they like to cut off all ties of communication. It's one of the ways that they inflict harm, whether they're doing it intentionally or not. It's that narcissistic personality is one of the ways that inflicts arm, they now feel like you're gonna suffer. [00:16:00] I'm gonna withdraw my presence from you. And it makes you feel less valued because not you feel like you were the one done wrong, and then they're treating you as if you were the one that treated them the way you felt like you've been treated. You know what I'm saying? Right, exactly. So in that, during that time of separation with no communication, I was able to find myself, I was able to see like, what is it about me that made it okay? Because even if it was, if this was gonna ever work, it wasn't gonna work like this. It wasn't gonna work. Yeah. So after all of that. Not having access to my daughter coming out of that relationship, coming out of that marriage. I was broken. I didn't really want to do ministry anymore 'cause we was doing ministry together. I didn't wanna do ministry more, I still wanted, God, I just didn't want ministry. So I was like, God, I needed to go through this process of healing. So I stopped, going live on Facebook. I stopped ministering, and I just began to shut down and just start working. And I went away for away from my, where I was [00:17:00] staying, went back home, felt like I needed to restore relationships, strengthened relationships back home that would, that would have been strained because of my relationship in this other marriage. So during that time, somebody invited me to preach one of my friends, and they didn't realize that's where my healing process started. Because it's like once I, wow. Once I started preaching and I saw God use me even in my brokenness. It's like I realized that, okay, like I still, this is what I'm here for. And I began to seek God in worship, began to see God in prayer, but still not at the level that I needed to. And there was many times on this period of time, I really felt like I hated her. I felt like, and then it was times where I couldn't see my daughter, so I felt that was really making me feel like a hater. And after all of that, when I went on a deep consecration, after some time had passed, we ain't talking a while, but artist society, you know what, I'm [00:18:00] not gonna date. I filed for divorce. We ended up separated with divorce. She signed, and I still, it was a gap in time when I actually first started seeing my daughter, but I really began to seek God and has left that whole situation in his hands. I began to cry to the Lord. I mean, I would fast and I would pray. I would pray from 10 to 3:00 AM in the morning. I sometimes I would pray 5, 6, 7 hours straight, just praying and seeking God, laying before him. And it was during that period of time that God really began to deal with me. He began to heal me. Like I would spend hours cry. I didn't know you could cry. That many got tears. And it wasn't all tears of sadness. It was tears of restoration. It was tears. It was tears of joy. It was like a cleansing, it was deep, and God was reminding me that I am his child. He is reminding me of who I am in spite of what I've been through. And I think the biggest challenge sometimes is to not identify yourself with your pain. Not identify yourself with a disappointment. [00:19:00] Because how another person treats you doesn't mean that's who you are. That just means how they treated you. So, but in that process of seeking God, God begins to restore me. And in that process of restoration, I was able to truly, to forgive from my heart. Because what God did is he took me back to the time that she was a child and begin to show me what it felt like to be an abandoned child. What it felt like to be an abused child, what it felt like to go through different foster care systems and nobody coming to your rescue. So he began to show me, he says, don't take it personal. She's hurting. And at that given moment, I cried with a deep cry and I began to like really just forgive. And it was that journey of forgiveness in complete, in, in wholeness that God was taking me through. That was preparing me for what was coming. So I won't let you jump in 'cause I don't want to talk too much. If you have any questions. Anything like that. No, I think you're saying your story very [00:20:00] eloquently hitting a lot of points that I can relate to. And I think, I mentioned to you that we have male listeners on the podcast that are survivors, that are listening is as well as the women. And they're just starting to get exposure that men do suffer from abuse also. Mm-hmm. How did you feel as a man going through abuse? You touched a little bit in general, but as a man did you get any kind of pushback from your community, your friends, your church about, oh, well, men don't get abused. You're the man of the house. You're supposed to be in charge, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What was that like? Well, the, the thing about most abusive relationships is you're in isolation. Yes, you're in isolation to protect your own image and also because you also want to protect the image of the person you trying to keep. Especially when you're in [00:21:00] ministry, you don't want people to see her in the light of her flaws. You try to keep people seeing her in the light of her, her gifts and her, her calling, right? So in a lot of times what happens when you're a part of an abusive relationship of any kind, there's an isolation. There's a pulling away from those who love you. You're not telling everybody your situation, even if they seen some of it from a distance. They don't know if it's continuing or not, because you're not sharing that information. And most men, we don't like to talk, we don't like to tell people what we're going through. We kind of go through it ourselves. Meanwhile, we're feeling broken. We're feeling devalued. We're feeling disrespected. We're feeling unworthy, and no matter how anointed we are, no matter how handsome we are, when you go through something like that, it makes you feel like less. And the man you feel, you feel like your manhood has been taken from you, and you, what happens is when you're dealing with a certain personality, if you're not careful, you will lose your voice. And one of the [00:22:00] last things that you can ever do and still re expect respect from a woman, for a man, is to lose your voice. Because if you lose your voice, you no longer lead . So, and to keep the peace sometime, we'll keep silent. So I did get a whole lot, I mean, some family members who knew what I got went through. I mean, my best friend, he was like, bro, I don't even know why he went back type thing. Like he was like, he was on this, I should have ended it a long time ago. Like he was, he had a different perspective on it all together, but other than that, but there wasn't much from that perspective as far as a lot of pushback from the community or, or, negative talk because a lot of people didn't know the extent of what I was going through to after, even to this day, a lot of people still don't know the extent. They just know my marriage didn't work, yeah. I was in full-time ministry with my ex who was my main abuser. And the same thing, I put on the mask. I'm in [00:23:00] ministry, I have to have it all together. I need to protect my reputation. Even, the church's reputation and. I didn't like the way I was treated. The church denomination I was in, devalued women and their their contributions and it was, submit. And that's the only role you have is to do what you're told. And when I wanted to get out, the church told me I couldn't. That is why I stayed and put up with it because the church said, well, you're gonna get excommunicated, you're gonna lose your ministry. You're gonna lose your friends and you're gonna have to start all over again. And that's exactly what happened. But I left because I couldn't take it anymore. I'm like, I don't care anymore. I'm, I'm getting out. Yeah. There's only so much you can stomach and then you wake up one day, it's like, I, can't live like this anymore. And God. I know [00:24:00] you're up there. I haven't been praying for a few years now because I don't think you're listening and but I'm getting out and taking the consequences of whatever happens if they shun me or kick me out for being divorced, so be it. I'll find another ministry. Well, I was like you, I didn't wanna go back into ministry either. My ministry now is very different than church planting that I was doing before. But yeah. So I can relate to a lot of the things that you were saying. Some some parallel there. I think the church has done a disservice. For the most part, the religious community has done a disservice when it comes to matters like this. And believe it or not, we protect the abuser more than we protect the person that's being abused. And this whole idea of, just work it out, work it out, work it out, and they're not understanding the full weight of what's going on. Like when [00:25:00] people have that, and I believe in deliverance, but I truly believe one of the hardest spirits to get rid of is that narcissistic, abusive personality that grows out a orphan spirit. Because that spirit oftentimes is the people are so far gone that even though they're conscious of what they're doing to you, they don't actually see themselves as being a bad person. Right. You're making me lose control. You're pushing me to this point. Mm-hmm. And, and a of times they're very intellectual, they're very gifted. They're, and people, they're likable, to the average person. So people are like, yeah, you just gotta work it out. I mean, every marriage have tough problems. No, I am being abused. I am being manipulated. I am being controlled. God did not create us to be controlled. This is why we always end up feeling some level of depression or a level of unsettling in our belly. Anytime you're under control, because it's not, you're not wired to function that [00:26:00] way, and it's just a matter of time that our, that dominion in us just ride and say, I can't take no more. I gotta get, because I know that, oh, God did not design me to be in control. Unfortunately, we have the enemy sometimes arranged marriages. Mm-hmm. I destinies and then he used religion to keep you in it. You can't get your divorce. You can't. So he'll use scriptures to kind of keep you in something that he's the author of. Because God is not the author of abuse. God is not the author of confusion. God is not the author of disrespect. If my husband is not good and perfect for me, he didn't come from God. I gotta have that. I have to know the word and be confident enough in the word to know that every good and perfect gift comes from above. I don't care how gifted, I don't care how anointed they appear. I don't care how intellectual they may be. If they're abusing me, they're manipulating me, controlling me. That was not from God. Yes, exactly. [00:27:00] Something I give myself, I'm not gonna say God gave me this person. well folks, this is a great place to stop our conversation. I know you want to hear more on prayer and how actually to commune better with God. So be sure to be with us next time on The Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. I wish you a great week. God bless you, and we'll see you next time. Bye for now. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.  

Lesley Logan and transformational coach Kevin Carton dive into how science and spirituality work together to help you live a more aligned and vibrant life. They explore why your heart holds the key to uncovering your true purpose, how small shifts in awareness can create major transformations, and how gratitude can rewire your reality. Get ready to feel inspired to take your next bold step forward. If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co.And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Why your soul's purpose is as unique as your thumbprint.How to connect science and spirituality to create your dream life.The importance of curiosity when you feel unclear about your goals.The Double Slit Experiment and why observation shapes reality.How writing a present-tense vision statement can accelerate your growth.The four levels of consciousness and how to shift from victim to creator.How gratitude operates at three powerful levels to rewire your brain and life.Episode References/Links:Kevin Carton Website - https://www.kevincarton.comKevin Carton Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kevinfcartonScience and Spirituality Podcast - https://beitpod.com/scienceandspiritualitypodMetacognition Meditation - https://beitpod.com/metacognitionmeditationDr. Quantum Double Slit Experiment - https://youtu.be/NvzSLByrw4QBig Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert - https://a.co/d/dMYmp4yMan's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl - https://a.co/d/6PEUoagGuest Bio:As an inspirational speaker, teacher, and transformational life coach certified by the Brave Thinking Institute, Kevin Carton empowers people to discover and live their soul's purpose. With over a decade of experience, Kevin has helped hundreds of people breakthrough limitations, rewire their subconscious mind and trust themselves more deeply, so they can take the bold steps to turn their dream into a reality. He has spoken on stages in front of thousands of people sharing his “old soul” wisdom, which led to him being described as a young Bob Proctor. He shares weekly insights alongside his brother Chris Carton on their podcast, Science & Spirituality, which has over 1.3 million downloads and listeners in 113 countries around the world. When he's not serving others in his coaching business, Kevin loves going on date nights with his wife / soulmate Vivianne, snowboarding in the mountains in the winter, and spending time with his cat Autumn in their home near Denver, Colorado. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. https://lovethepodcast.com/BITYSIDEALS! DEALS! DEALS! DEALS! https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentCheck out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/memberships/perks/#equipmentBe in the know with all the workshops at OPC https://workshops.onlinepilatesclasses.com/lp-workshop-waitlistBe It Till You See It Podcast Survey https://pod.lesleylogan.co/be-it-podcasts-surveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates Mentorship https://lesleylogan.co/elevate/FREE Ditching Busy Webinar https://ditchingbusy.com/ Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gLesley Logan website https://lesleylogan.co/Be It Till You See It Podcast https://lesleylogan.co/podcast/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan https://onlinepilatesclasses.com/Online Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjogqXLnfyhS5VlU4rdzlnQProfitable Pilates https://profitablepilates.com/about/ Follow Us on Social Media:Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lesley.logan/The Be It Till You See It Podcast YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq08HES7xLMvVa3Fy5DR8-gFacebook https://www.facebook.com/llogan.pilatesLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-logan/The OPC YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses Episode Transcript:Kevin Carton 0:00  I personally believe that we all have a soul's purpose as unique as our thumbprint. We all have a unique thumbprint that we can identify ourselves across the eight plus billion people, completely unique. I also believe that we all have a unique purpose in life, and that we're here to fulfill it. Lesley Logan 0:14  Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I'm Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring bold, executable, intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It's a practice, not a perfect. Let's get started.Lesley Logan 0:56  Okay, Be It babe. We are gonna have a little bit of science, a little bit of spirituality, and yes, they go together. And holy moly, am I blown away. One of, it's just I have things that I want to put on repeat. There's things I want to go research. There's a meditation I'm going to go do, like, this, I'm fired up. And I have to say today, before this interview happened, I had call after call. Meeting after meeting. Demand after demand. I was like, oh, I gotta put my podcasting hat on, and I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm so glad I did, because my whole perspective of what I'm here to do has changed in like a moment, in an instant, and I believe that that's what's gonna happen for you in this podcast. So here is our guest, Kevin Carton. Lesley Logan 1:35  All right, Be It babe. This is gonna be so fun, because I've already been chatting with our guest before I hit record here, and it's just so fun. It's an easy conversation, and someone who really cares about who you are and how you operate in this world. And so Kevin Carton, can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at? Kevin Carton 1:50  I'd be happy to. First off, thank you for having me on your podcast. I'm thrilled to be here. And I love your show. Clearly, love your audience because of the focus of your show. So I'm excited to share. So, myself, as you shared, I'm Kevin Carton. I'm a transformational life coach, and I like to call myself as well, a spiritual teacher, although my technical certification is as a transformational life coach, but I help people in living their dreams. It's really as simple as that, but there's so much more depth than that goes to because I really like to take the spiritual approach, or the soul's approach, the perspective of being a soul in this human experience. And so it's a different approach than, like, just trying to create something new in your life. But I go into the deeper depths of like, why? Well, why? Why do you want whatever it is that you want, and what is that going to give you? What are you giving to the world for that? And ultimately, I love to focus on our soul's purpose. I personally believe that we all have a soul's purpose as unique as our thumbprint. We all have a unique thumbprint that we can identify ourselves across the eight plus billion people, completely unique. I also believe that we all have a unique purpose in life, and that we're here to fulfill it.Lesley Logan 2:55  I so believe that. I think what a lot of people who listen to this show are all kind of figuring out, like, what is my purpose? I think that they can get overwhelmed by that question. They can feel like, you have to know an answer, and you're, you feel ashamed if you don't know an answer. Simon Sinek's like, it starts with why. And I remember coaching people like, I don't know, I just don't feel the pain and and they're being told like, your why should make you cry. And it's like, should it, though? Is it that emotional? How do we get past it? So I guess I have two questions I want to go with. One, how do you become a transformational life coach? Can anyone just say that they are? And two, what is a soul's purpose? How do we figure that out? These are two big questions, I think.Kevin Carton 3:30  They are. I mean, I've been doing this for a while, so I can answer both of those, actually, quite briefly. First, how I, you know, anyone becomes a transformational life coach? There's many different routes, and there are many different perspectives on what you can or the training you go through to actually call yourself a transformational life coach, or a life coach in general. The path I don't recommend, and this is not the path I took, is taking an online certification that costs $250. There are those that are out there and could be helpful in terms of a coaching modality like you can learn some skills, but I believe, if you're calling yourself a transformational life coach, that there is some deeper depth that you've carved out in your own life, your own experience, that you can give to others and share with others, but in a more reliable way, that it's not just happenstance or your own experience, but there are certain principles that you follow, that you share those principles, and if someone works with those principles, then it could work for them too. Because, at heart, I'm actually a scientist. That's like the beginning of my story. I first chose my career path, at first, was to begin my doctorate in pharmacy. Long story short, I did not end up continuing to get my doctorate, because three and a half years in or so, I started to work in the industry as an intern, and I hated it. I felt like my soul was being crushed. Because, honestly, I really went into that career path because I want to help people, and when I saw that what we were doing really wasn't really helping, it was more of just masking symptoms, not really a treating the underlying cause, I felt like there was no purpose for me there anymore. So it was a very big, I call it my quarter life crisis, but that ultimately led me to needing help myself. So it was many different ways this came about that I won't get into, different, like, synchronicities happening in my life, but I stumbled upon a mentor who has been my mentor since. So for over 10 years now, I've been working with this woman, and she's a transformational life coach. Her name is Mary Morrissey, but I sought her help because I was in such a deep, dark place in my life, like dipping in and out of depression, feeling so lost that I needed guidance, I needed support. So from that journey, and it was within like one year, from working with her, investing and coaching with her, that I started to uncover what really was here for me and my purpose and what I really wanted to do to help people, like, truly. And for how much her work helped me, I felt so inspired that I wanted to do the same. So kind of a story of turning your mess into your message, right? So that's what guided me toward this path of being a transformational life coach. And I'm also really grateful and thrilled that my mentor actually runs a whole institute that I believe is actually like, one of the world's best in terms of training life coaches, so. Lesley Logan 6:07  I love that you brought that up about what you don't recommend people do as a path. And also you went into, like, how long you went through, and you're obviously still working with her, and then also to then train, because my industry is also not really regulated, and I don't think the life coaching industry is also like, there's not like a third party, exactly, and I do think that there are reasons why some statewide or tests should be done, because I just think that anyone can call themselves some of these things, and if they're really passionate, that they can hoodwink people. And so I actually don't bring on a ton of life coaches onto this podcast, because I want to make sure that there's a way that I can vet them and research them, and I can look into what they say they're trained in. And I saw yours, and I was like, oh, this is legitimate, and this person actually practices what they preach. So it's the same thing. When people are like, oh, I want a Pilates instructor over here. I'm like, here's the deal. There's not really, like, a one directory you can go to and anyone can actually call themselves a Pilates instructor. They don't even have to take a course. They can watch it on Instagram. They can watch my YouTube videos. It's all there. They can buy the equipment. They can insure the studio. They can insure a studio, and never, ever have to show a certification of any kind. So, so it's really important that people know that there is valid ways, and I really appreciate you sharing that. Okay, so I also resonate because I went to college for like, a reason, and I was like, I'm gonna do this thing. And I remember sitting on an airplane, very vividly, and I remember going, I don't even see myself doing that anymore. And I felt like, oh my God, I'm in college. I'm paying all this money. I can't just also quit. So what am I gonna do? What is my thing that I'm gonna do? And so it's really overwhelming when you're in your early 20s and you have all this pressure, because it costs so much to start to even shift. So I think it's really incredible that you had the crisis and you found the shift. So is that how you found your soul's purpose? Is like, what? And then can we all find ours?Kevin Carton 7:55  Absolutely. Yeah, so it's actually, it's a great bridge into that, that second question to answer that, as I mentioned, I believe it's also a brief, can be a brief answer, pretty straightforward, that our soul's purpose is really what our heart calls for the most. That's what I believe our purpose is. Because, you know, purpose has this definition or this paradigm around it, that it has to be something that involves contributing to the world or contributing in some way that's like a career, a work, a job, whatever it is, like we're doing something. I personally believe our purpose here is actually to live the most alive life that we possibly can. And as you know, as I mentioned just before, I'm a scientist, I take the scientific perspective, and this, I know is going to go really wide out for people, but I really believe it's, it's helpful that if you look back into, like, the creation of this whole universe, our entire life and existence, and all that we know the scientific perspective is that it was The Big Bang, right? Even that, in the spiritual perspective, it pretty much, any major religion, speaks about there was this like moment that creation just began, right, from like one point, like one God, right? It's a common denominator of that, common thought. But it's the same thing with with the scientific perspective, was one infinite, it has to be small point of matter that scientists have discovered that's was the beginning of our universe, sounds like one energy, one life, one source, one one something, right? And boom, it blew apart. And then ever since then, for 13 plus billion years, it's becoming more and more complex and evolving to greater and greater experiences of itself that we call life. We are part of life. We're alive. We have breath. We didn't do anything to deserve the breath in our lungs or the heartbeat in our chest. It's a gift that we're given. And so I personally believe that our purpose here for any different way you can cut it up, is that we're here to become more alive, more aware, more happy, more joyful, more loving, and then fill in the blank. And it just happens to be sometimes that our work involves that.Lesley Logan 9:59  Mm. I like that you said that it, we often think that the purpose I have to do is with things for others, like you mentioned, it's more important that, like, we are living our lives. And I think that that's true. I think that the people that we're attracted to, there's this magnet around them because they're living their life. And we're like, looking at that. We're like, that sparkly, shiny, you know, it looks like the grass looks greener over there. And it might be because they're actually just living their life. And a lot of us get so consumed with, well, if I do X for me, what are other people gonna think? And I think, is that like the sole purpose, like kryptonite is like thinking, what other people are gonna think about the thing we're doing for ourselves to live. Kevin Carton 10:35  Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of paradigms that have to be shifted in our current society and current culture of humanity that it's too much focused on, like, oh, what are other people going to think, that we shut down our own aliveness? And ultimately, I don't believe that that's the purpose of life itself, anyway. And so it's flawed in some way. I don't think it's entirely negative to have some idea and concern of what other people are going to think, because we are all connected. There is, again, I believe this one life source energy, we call it different labels and names, but it's within everyone, too. So we want to care about others as well, but not too much. There's a fine line. There's a middle path of that. Lesley Logan 11:14  Yeah, I think you're right, because a narcissist would not think about anyone ever. So that's one extreme, and then someone else would be like, trying to people-please on the other extreme, and that's never gonna work. And so there is a place in the middle where it's like a temp check of is what I'm doing gonna be good in this world and, and is it my purpose? Is it from me or am I doing this for others?Kevin Carton 11:34  Exactly. Spot on. Yeah, that's why I started with that. Like, what is purpose to me? It's us, our own individual selves, becoming more alive. But again, yeah, it does connect with others. We don't want to, like, step on others in, in pursuing our purpose, because then what's the point? Lesley Logan 11:49  Right. Because we want to, I to me, I'm like, how do I bring people in? How do I bring them along? How do we include all of them and none of it is easy, and I think that that's the hard part, right? Doing the work to transform your life isn't, isn't easy, it's not a checkbox. Kevin Carton 12:07  Not at all. Lesley Logan 12:08  Okay, so you are, you bring science and, to spirituality. I found that very fascinating, because I feel like there's several different types of spirituality, and that they're so woo. We're on a different universe, and I can't really go there. I'm a one woo kind of girl, so I like my crystals, like my meditation. I definitely use some Palo Santo. But like, you know, we're, we gotta, we gotta stay on this planet, too. How did you combine the two? Because I feel like, I think it's cool that they live together. I just didn't realize that there was a Venn diagram where they overlapped. Kevin Carton 12:38  Well, very much so. In fact, honestly, some of the points in teaching principles I share, it's often like one and the same that the science and the spirituality, they say the exact same thing. It's just for how it's been in our society and humanity for so long. It's just been so separate. But now it really sparked my interest when I started to study quantum physics, because spiritual teachers for ages, millennia, would teach about if you believe, I mean, it's literally about your podcast, be it til you see it, right? Another way of saying it, if you believe it, then you can achieve it. In essence, you have it in your mind. It's possible in life. And there's a way in which you can create that. The scientific perspective of that now in quantum physics, have you ever heard of or seen the double slit experiment?Lesley Logan 13:22  No, I don't think so, but I'm excited to learn. Kevin Carton 13:25  I'd highly recommend checking it out. And there's a great YouTube video that describes it in very simple terms, because it's quite in depth. I haven't even understood it to the degree of the quantum physicist and how they studied it, because it's still mind boggling. But there's a great YouTube video by Dr Quantum on YouTube and literally, just type in Dr. Quantum Double Slit Experiment, you'll find it's a five minute video. You should understand really, really great. But the basic idea of it is that the scientists, they believe that you know for the longest time, the perspective on our universe is that it's material, meaning that it's energy that we can interact with, we can measure. It's very solid, like, literally the computer where I'm using to record this, or my desk, like, it's very solid. We can touch it, right? So all of these different things are just made up of electrons, protons and neutrons, all put together in just different formations. That's the periodic table as we know it. It's literally every element that we know that makes up the visible universe. However, if you break it up enough and take electrons, or photons, which is the tiny, tiny bit, it's the negative charge in an atom of any, any atom in the world or in the universe, take that electron, if you fire it into these like slits, in essence, like these two slits in this like metal sheet, then it creates, like a pattern on the back wall, like, where those electrons, like, went through those slits. So that's the basic idea that they, they looked at that because when you have solid pieces of matter and you shoot them through those two slits, it creates that reflection on the back of two slits of bands, right? Because solid matter went through it. But, if it's a wave of potential or wave of energy, let's say that those double slits were in water. If there was just a wave, like a ripple effect of water that goes through those two slits, it creates a very different result on the measuring wall, because the waves go through the slits, but then there's then two waves that come out of it, and they interact with each other, and they cause what's called an interference pattern. So I know I'm getting quite detailed, but it's important. So the craziest thing happened though, that what they thought would happen with electrons is that they would show up as the physical matter, that it was like the two bands, the two slits, right? It did not. It showed up as an interference pattern, meaning that the electron, which we have thought of for so long as just so material, so real, it's actually just potential in energy, meaning that literally everything that makes up the universe of electrons, also protons, neutrons, they are actually going in and out of states of existence. So the whole point being, why I'm sharing this, and this is what really sparked for me. This is way back 2014 when I actually first found this video and learned about the double slit experiment and the science behind this. It said the because the additional, one, final additional piece they added to this experiment was that the scientists took a measuring device to see which slit or how those electrons went through those double slits to make the interference pattern. Because they're like, what's going on? We think these things are solid pieces of matter, and when they put the measuring device there, the electrons went back to becoming actual matter. So it was inescapable, the conclusion, which was that the act of observing, in essence, being consciously aware, focusing on whatever it is that you're focusing on, makes it real. And if you're not focusing on it, in other words, you're not measuring that electron. It behaves like potential, like there's not solid.Lesley Logan 16:56  Oh, my God, that's so crazy. That's so, that is so crazy, because it's like we always hear that what you can track is what you would attract, what you measure is what grows. That's insane. Kevin Carton 17:06  This is why. Lesley Logan 17:07  That's really crazy. That is the woo with the science like that all. Kevin Carton 17:10  Exactly. Let me share one final thing, because I know I, I'm like, very well, self-aware, and I'm like, I shared a lot more, like, technical terms and all, but. Lesley Logan 17:18  We're gonna transcribe this whole thing and let people Google. Yeah. Kevin Carton 17:21  Okay, yeah, please. That video is so helpful because I even noticed I find some difficulty explaining it as clearly as possible. But here's my favorite quote from Einstein. Albert. Einstein even said this. This is, I think, a couple of decades before this Double Slit Experiment actually came out. So this is just a theory at the time, but now it's proven. He was just walking with a friend one night, and he's famous for saying, I wonder if we're not looking at the moon right now, if we're facing away from it, is the moon actually there right now? Is it actually in existence? It's like the classic philosophical saying, or the question, like, if a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, does it actually make a sound? And to this point, you know, this Double Slit Experiment is basically proving that, actually, no, it's not there until you view it, your consciousness is focused on it. And I'll end this off by saying, just to make it even more tangible and actionable to someone listening, the reason I bring this up is so powerful as of an example, is that we could use that in an everyday basis, with our life, with a dream, a vision, what we would love to create, even if we have no idea how it's going to happen, where there's no circumstance around us that shows evidence as if possible. It is possible because you can see it in your mind. It's the ability to focus, to concentrate, to dream up anything that you would love. And honestly, I think that's exactly what you mean in this whole podcast, this topic of the whole title, and the theme of this podcast is Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 18:45  Yeah, okay. I love this because I actually just heard of someone doing a manifestation where they went into the future and they saw what they wanted to happen, and they believed that it happened, and then they came back to the past, and all these different things were happening that would make them doubt what they saw in the future. But they stuck with no, we believe that. We saw that. It's going to come to an existence, and it happened, right, which feels a little magical. But also I believe that, because I've there are times when I've been so clear on what I want that it actually happens. And so where I think people get stuck is they don't know what they want. Kevin Carton 19:19  Agreed. Yes. Lesley Logan 19:22  Like, they can't actually be specific about what it is that they want. And I find when I goal set 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I could be very specific about what I wanted. And now, as I get older, and I was like, I've achieved a lot of things and different stuff, sometimes it's hard to know what you want and then believe that, oh, I want that. But is that exactly what I want? Like, we start to doubt ourselves. So like, how do you help people who have no idea what to want?Kevin Carton 19:50  It's a great question, and I appreciate your, just, transparency in your own experience now, because it's not a linear process. If you've achieved certain dreams and goals in your life already, doesn't mean that there's not going to be some challenge in discovering or achieving next, right? But my go to principle or tool for that in discovery is to get curious. The reason why I say that is because I personally believe that our true heart's desire, our true dream, our true purpose, whatever you want to call it, it is given to us by life itself, by this power you can call God, source, spirit, the universe, this energy, this life force, whatever you want to call it, we're alive. And so I believe we're given visions, given dreams. In fact, another great teacher and life coach, Les Brown, if you ever heard of him, he often says this in his speeches, that we're given dreams and it's up to us to accept and actually, first off, actually become aware of what those dreams are that are given to us, but then to actually accept and be bold and courageous to go for it. So the first tool I offer, usually, is just curiosity, because it's more of a listening in, rather than trying to figure out what is your purpose, so that it's more of a conversation, a dialog and exploration, rather than trying to make it happen or write it out and decide, because then it gets too intellectual. It's not connected to your heart. And that's really where the true desires come from. It's not in the mind, it's in the, it's in the body, it's in the heart. Lesley Logan 21:14  Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. I love what you quoted Les Brown, because have you read the book Big Magic?Kevin Carton 21:21  No, I haven't, but I'm familiar with it. Lesley Logan 21:23  Okay, a great book, and it's, I think, really great for the creatives who listen. Because I coach a lot of people on their business, and they're like, okay, I started to get this going, and now we're gonna do this. And I'm like, so here's the thing, you can, you can do whatever you want, but I'm gonna tell you what I know is that if you test what is making you happy in your livelihood right now, before it's ready, you will have to make decisions that they're going to be compressed or pressured, because you need to make the money before it's ready, right? And so the Big Magic book by Elizabeth Gilbert, the idea is she actually did not quit teaching, even when she sold Eat, Pray, Love. When she sold the movie, she still was teaching in a college. She did not quit teaching, that consistent income, until she knew that her creativity on its own could fund the life that she had without putting pressures. Because a lot of times people go, okay, I'm gonna make my art may be my paycheck, but then you start to change the art so that it's what sells versus what's in your heart, right? And so when you are talking about being curious and figuring out what that is, it's, it's kind of like there's a patience to it, and we can't, we can't put that pressure on it too soon before it's ready. But she also talks about, in that book, is that ideas want to be born, and they come to you, and if you don't act on them, they will go to someone else, and that's why two people across the planet can come up with the same idea at the same time and work on it, and one person takes their time and quits, and then it's like, I had that idea, yeah, but it left (inaudible). Kevin Carton 22:52  Exactly. Lesley Logan 22:52  Yeah. It wanted to be born. Okay, so you're just full of so much knowledge and something that really attracted me when I was looking at what you talk about a lot, you have a couple things that I'm wondering, if you want to, if you have time, which one you want to talk about more, the power of a clear vision, or the four levels of consciousness. Which one is on your heart to share? Kevin Carton 22:53  Oh, I mean, both are equally powerful, right?Lesley Logan 23:08  Depends on how quick you are. Kevin Carton 23:16  Yeah, no, let's get to both, actually, because the first is very straightforward, very easy to just piggyback off of everything we've already talked about. A vision in my definition of it, and working with it with my clients, is a vision statement that's a written out version of the life you'd love to live that is detailed, specific, clear, with emotion and just big. You know, what you would really love, not limited by current circumstance. And when you write it out in that way, and I mean present tense, not I will, or I'm going to, I am, and fill in the blank, you know, I'm so grateful, I'm so happy, I'm so proud and and I have this business. I've written this book because once we get clear and we actually write it out, it becomes more of a declaration, then for us to become, you know, it's a great tool to actually being it until you see it, because as we write out our dreams, we then can come back to it again and again. Because how often, you know, life goes on and we have responsibilities and other things going on in life that take our attention away, and then we forget about the big dream, and it's a month later, it's like, wait a minute, I was really on fire for that for a few days or a week, what happened to it? The tool of the vision statement, is really powerful to just to recheck in. So that's my brief blurb about it, and it's incredible.Lesley Logan 24:29  I love that, and I agree on the I am statements, I think that they're extremely powerful. And I think the more we say them out loud and hear ourselves say them out loud, that's really powerful, too. And I think you have to say it several times, because it changes the more you say it. That's really great. I also like your interpretation of like, how to write down your vision statement. I think that that's really fun. That's going to be a homework assignment for me. Kevin Carton 24:51  Yeah, try it out. It's fun. Lesley Logan 24:52  Okay. The other one was the four levels of consciousness. What's, what are those?Kevin Carton 24:56  So, four levels. First is that it's all in the perspective of how is life showing up for me, or how am I experiencing life? So the first and lowest level of consciousness, which is victimhood, is life is happening to me. I'm at effect and I blame others. I blame the economy, I blame the government, I blame my ex, I blame my parents, I blame all except for myself. It's like life is happening to me, and I'm not the problem everything else is, and it's such a low state of consciousness because we're not actually connected with the truth that we have the power within to determine what meaning we take on for our life or what circumstance mean to us. Yeah, that's well studied in psychology. That's not just like some fun thing to say. It's actually well researched, supported in many peer-reviewed journals, that our perception creates the meaning that we experience in life. It's not the actual event. One great, quick book to dive deeper into that topic, Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl. Incredibly powerful, so moving, and his story, you know, is, just for anyone who has not read it or heard of it, he was a refugee from Nazi Germany. He was in a concentration camp. He survived. But there was one moment he had which basically created the rest of his work for the rest of his life. One moment where basically, they, he was in such terrible conditions that the one last thing he had, which was like a gold wedding band, which the Nazis just didn't take away at that time, until, like they found it months later, they finally demanded that from him. His first instinct was like to hate them, to get angry. But he found this place within himself, which was a pause between the actual circumstance and then his response and his choice of how he was going to place meaning on that exact circumstance, probably the most difficult thing that anyone can face, right? And that place, actually, that place he found within himself created his whole work, which is called the logos therapy. And so it's, dig in, well study that. Again, it's our own choice. So it's a choice to stay in victimhood, which ultimately will just diminish our life over time, which no one wants, obviously, deep down. So at the first level of consciousness, we want to move out of. To bridge to the second level of consciousness, it's simple, we take responsibility for how we respond, for our own thoughts, our own actions, our own words. And once you take responsibility, you increase your consciousness to the awareness, or that phase of awareness called the, that life is happening by me. And now you're not just sitting on the sidelines. You're engaged. You recognize that your thoughts, your actions, have meaning and create differences in the world, and so you start to create what you want. However, that is still in a degree limited, because we're still only focused on our own personal self. And it comes back to the point we mentioned earlier, that, you know, we're living in this world with eight plus billion other humans and many, many other life forms on this planet. So it's not just for one of us. It's really for all. What we're doing is in benefit for all as well. And that moves us up to the third level of consciousness, which is life is happening through me. It's not by me anymore, but now, life is happening through me, meaning I have a part to play in this grand play called life, because I'm alive, and so I don't have just a separateness between me and the other person or me and that flower or me and the sun. It's all one life happening, and it's this, again, a symphony. And so as we step into that kind of flow, it literally becomes like a flow, like a river. And so things start to work out more easily when we recognize that we're connected with this source of energy, life, power that we can tap into. And then magic starts to happen, because the move from the by me phase to the through me phase of life is we let go of control, which is a difficult one.Lesley Logan 28:47  Yeah, I'm a teacher who studies the art of control, that's a Pilates (inaudible) actually was called contrology. Yes, it's called the art of control. It's a study of control, right? And so every Pilates instructor, or people often who are like, attracted to Pilates is like, this perfectionist, like, control, like, type A person. And the hilariousness is, is that the more I studied the way that Joe Pilates intended it was about curiosity and just figuring out, like, what can I do, what is possible? So it's really funny, because I came into it like, Oh, I gotta get perfect at it, and then I'm perfect and I got it. And then the more I did it, the more I realize, oh, actually, every day is a different day in my body. And yes, I need to control my body, but I need to let go of what the controlling the scenario that's happening today, because my body is different today than tomorrow, right? Kevin Carton 29:30  Yeah, yeah, my word shifts which it's, it's spot on, I'm thrilled you gave that example, because that's so profound and probably helpful for someone listening, who's into Pilates, right? Because it is, it seems like a lot about control, but I think would you, basically, what I picked up from your, what your words were, is that, yes, it's about controlling, like your body, but it's more about the responsibility about your body. Of like, yes, I'm taking responsibility of my actions in that, but it's letting go of control of like, yeah, what's going on in the day? Maybe my body feels different than from yesterday to today. So that's where you let go of control, but the responsibility piece is there as well. That's how I see it. Lesley Logan 30:07  I love this. This is great. I feel like we can do Pilates and consciousness workshops. Kevin Carton 30:13  Nice. That would be awesome. Lesley Logan 30:17  Amazing, amazing. Okay, and so is there one more level? Like after. Kevin Carton 30:21  Yeah, this one's a fun one, because it's more of experiences that you can have. I personally don't make this as like a goal or an aspiration to live in this phase of awareness. I set my goal to live in the third phase of awareness, the through me phase. But the fourth and final phase of awareness is as me, where life is now happening, as me, where there's actually no separation between me and this entirety of the universe. This is the mystic experience that most people speak about, like mystics, gurus, sages, messiahs, that there's this oneness and there's this deep knowing. And I like to say it's an experience, because most people don't want to set that as like a life goal. That's more of like those who want to, like, become a monk and renounce all worldly desires. And funny enough, for two weeks of my life, I actually had that desire, but I let it go pretty quickly.Lesley Logan 31:10  You know, you can, there are places in Asia where you can go be a monk for like, three weeks or four weeks or whatever. Kevin Carton 31:17  I did not know that.Lesley Logan 31:18  And then, people, yes. So I know people who, like, once a year, spend a month as a monk, and I think that that's incredible. I couldn't do it. I think would depend on the type of, well, first of all, I'm a female and not, so often, not an option. But a lot of monks only eat once a day, right? It's a whole thing. So there is a way to experience it without having to do it forever. Kevin Carton 31:36  Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Just to, qualifier what it is even that has me experience, right, again, it's that oneness. But as I mentioned, I like to call these portals that we go through in terms of awareness, like from, just a recap, victimhood to that by me phase is we take responsibility. That's the portal we go through. Then from the by me phase to the through me phase, we let go of control. And then this final phase that we go through, the portal we go through is completely dissolving separateness, and that's why it's more of an experience to have, not really like a, for most of us, it could be some that they would want to attain that fully and completely in their life and live that. But most people have those experiences, like in deep meditation, in connection with nature, potentially even in certain exercises, like, when you're really in touch with your body, there's this oneness, not only with yourself, but with all, with all life. But the funny thing is, the most common experience of the as me phase is through orgasm between two human beings.Lesley Logan 32:33  Really? So people can experience it, yeah, they can experience it now. Kevin Carton 32:38  Yeah, 100% yeah. It's actually, in some ways, common, right? We just don't often think of it as this spiritual experience, because, at least, like, sex and that whole topic has just gotten quite muddied in a way, you know, like, just not in as pure, and I'm putting in air quotes because, not anything of like, you know, what I might say is, like, pure or anything, but who's to have that definition? But it is the most common experience in as me phase. Lesley Logan 33:02  Cool. So I guess my only question on this is, is it possible to, like, get to the by me, maybe into the through me, and then all of a sudden you're back at the to me, because I feel like there can be days where you're just like, oh my God, and then you're reacting, and then you're blaming and then you're like, who, what the hell is this person? I don't know this person. And then you have to, like, go back, and so maybe the quicker you get to getting back to the by me and through me is the key. Kevin Carton 33:27  That's the goal. Yeah, it's not about perfection, because we're human, so we're flawed, we're not going to be perfect. And there's a law of the universe called the Law of Rhythm. We all work with it and know it and experience it every single day, with the night and the day, like the light and the darkness that we experience. It's the round of our breath, the inhale, the exhale. There's that rhythm, the ebb and the flow of the tides of the ocean, right? It's within all things, the same thing with our consciousness. It's, I believe, naive to think that we're going to stay in one phase of awareness constantly for the rest of our life. Almost impossible. I'm not saying it's impossible, because I believe anything's possible, but more likely, we're just going to go through rhythms and times where we're more connected, more aware, and then we fall asleep, just like we need rest, you know, in a given day, like we fall asleep, so we need that in consciousness as well. Lesley Logan 34:14  Oh, Kevin, I could talk to you all day. This is so fascinating. I really, I didn't even know that you could have science and spirituality in the same, like, I really am blown away and excited. We're gonna take, we're gonna take a brief break and then find out how people can find you, follow you, work with you. Lesley Logan 34:28  All right, Kevin, where do you hang out? Where can people stalk you in the best way?Kevin Carton 34:33  Sure, the two places I hang out the most. My website is kevincarton.com it's a kind of a hub for, like, different resources I have, as well as the main place I hang out, my podcast with my brother. I'm very blessed to say I've been running this podcast with my brother for five and a half years. He's my co-host and my closest friend. He's my older brother. He's a year and a half older than me. We created it. It's called Science and Spirituality, which you can find anywhere.Lesley Logan 34:58  Oh, I'm gonna download it now, this is going to be exciting. You're gonna be on my ears more. You have an amazing gift for our peeps, and you have some Be It Action Items for us. So can you give us all the good stuff?Kevin Carton 35:09  Yeah, I'd be happy to and thank you for the ability to share this with your audience, too. So I have a meditation called the metacognition meditation. Metacognition is just a technical psychological term, or psychology term for this tool of noticing what you're noticing. It's the most profound tool I, spiritual tool, I've ever come across to help you connect with who you really are as a spiritual being having this human experience. And, to connect it with our conversation, I really believe it's a great tool to help yourself listen in and get curious for what your purpose is, what your true desires are, when you actually get in touch with who you really are. So it's a 23 minute guided meditation. Might sound a bit long for those who may not be a regular meditator, but it's a guided meditation. So I'd have beautiful music behind there, and I guide you through every step of the way. And it's really powerful. So it's completely free. And, obviously, there's a link in the show notes that Lesley and her team puts there.Lesley Logan 36:05  Oh yeah, it's gonna be there. And also, 23 minutes is less than 2% of your day, everyone, just less than 2% and it's really important to move your body, yes, but also it's important to be with your body. And some days we can't move. And so sitting still and listening to this, and even if you don't sit still, I think that probably that's something to notice. Oh, I can't wait. I'm excited. Brad's gonna be excited, too. He let's see him not tap his foot for 23 minutes. We'll see how that goes. Okay, Be It Action Items, bold, executable, intrinsic or target steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us? Kevin Carton 36:39  Yes. So my main tool I use, which actually is a kind of a piggyback off of this whole conversation too, clearly, as you could tell, I often come back to just the source of all life as an inspirational like jumping off point of the foundation. So I personally use gratitude as a practice for being it until I see it in a couple of different levels. But the first and foremost, pretty obvious level, is just gratitude for what's going on in life right now, to focus on the positive, the good things you have in your life right now, to build this solid foundation of loving or enjoying your aspects of your life to a great degree so you can attract more of that. And then the second level of gratitude to connect to, which I believe comes from that connection with our higher power, is a gratitude for being alive today and the opportunity that we have to even dream of what we would love to be in the future. And then once we have that clarity and gratitude for even just the possibility, then the third level of gratitude of actually being grateful for what we say we want or who we say we want to be now, as if it's already ours. And as speaking of science, I always love the science to this. Scientific studies prove now that if we just imagine vividly enough something we would love to experience, or who we would love to be, our brains neurons light up in the exact same way as if we were actually experiencing said thing. This is actually you look this up pro golfers, and it's becoming more popular in pro football, but golfing, it's been around for decades as a very strong practice, but now just supported by a lot of scientific research. So I recommend that as a practice, because it works with our physiology very well, and it stimulates what now is called neuroplasticity. A lot of people might know that. So, gratitude is the key to work with there. Lesley Logan 38:24  Who knew? I mean, that is so cool. You know, like, my favorite things to remember about gratitude is, like, gratitude and judgment can't live in the same space. And so as a practice, whenever I'm feeling judgmental of myself for an experience or whatever, I like, to take a moment and I'm like, okay, hold on. I'm grateful for this right now. And also you can feel that judgment disappear. And sometimes it's like, one of the easiest ways to then, to me, to take another set, to look at, like, what is going on, so that I'm not a victim and the thing, so, what a cool tool. We've had over 500 episodes, and I'm not sure that gratitude was used in that way, or at all, in a Be It Action Item. So, thank you for blowing our minds. I think you're just so awesome. Kevin Carton 39:03  You're welcome. Thank you. Lesley Logan 39:04  You're so wonderful. This is a saver, for sure. There's so many different little avenues I want to dig into more. So I can't wait to hear what our listeners' takeaways were. So please, you guys, tag Kevin, tag the Be It Pod, share this with a friend who needs it. Share it with a friend who you feel like is kind of sticking in that, that victimhood thing, it's hard. They don't, they might not listen to all of your suggestions. So maybe they can listen to Kevin tell them, and they could be blown away as much as I am. And you know what to do. Until next time, Be It Till You See It. Lesley Logan 39:33  That's all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.Brad Crowell 40:16  It's written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 40:21  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.Brad Crowell 40:25  Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.Lesley Logan 40:32  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 40:35  Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Snap a flare off - it's Mr. Pete Buttigieg. We talk trucks, fish, the WWE, rush-delivery marriage, and a cottage industry of custom homemade nail polish. What time did you eat your first M&M today? It's an all-new SmartLess. Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus.

In this powerful and deeply insightful conversation, Rahel Bayar sits down with Nachi Gordon to discuss her journey from being a sex crimes and child abuse prosecutor in the Bronx to founding The Bayar Group, an organization dedicated to abuse and harassment prevention across North America. Rahel shares how her early aspirations in psychology shifted to law, leading her to work on some of the most difficult cases imaginable—domestic violence, child abuse, and sexual assault. With years of courtroom experience and firsthand exposure to trauma, she eventually asked herself: Can this be prevented? Now a leading educator and consultant, Rahel trains schools, camps, and youth organizations on how to build safe environments without instilling fear. She breaks down practical prevention tools—like teaching children about body safety, the difference between secrets and surprises, and how to foster open communication—especially within the frum (religious Jewish) community. Whether you're a parent, educator, or community leader, this episode will leave you thinking differently about what it means to protect children and empower communities. “No healthy grown-up needs a child to keep a secret.” — Rahel Bayar   This episode was made possible thanks to our sponsors: ►Blooms Kosher   Bring you the best Kosher products worldwide.   https://bloomskosher.com   ____________________________________________________   ► PZ Deals - Download the app and never pay full price again!     https://app.pz.deals/install/mpp _____________________________________________________ ►Toveedo     Visit- https://toveedoshop.com   Use Promo Code MM10 for $10 off! __________________________________________________ ► Aleph Beta   Counting the Omer can feel like just counting. But it's meant to be a journey — seven weeks of preparing for Matan Torah. That's why Aleph Beta created A Book Like No Other, a new podcast guiding you through the Omer with weekly episodes featuring Rabbi David Fohrman. Deep conversations. Real meaning. Perfectly timed for Shavuot.

Story of the Week (DR):Berkshire board names Greg Abel as CEO, Buffett to remain chairWarren Buffett says he'll propose Greg Abel take over as Berkshire Hathaway CEO at year-endWarren Buffett makes surprise announcement: He's stepping down as Berkshire Hathaway CEOOpenAI backs off push to become for-profit companyIn a nutshell, with help from its chatbot: “OpenAI has restructured into a hybrid model with a nonprofit parent company, OpenAI Inc., and a for-profit subsidiary now called a Public Benefit Corporation (PBC). This shift allows for investment while keeping a focus on its mission of developing AGI for the benefit of humanity. The change responds to previous criticism about reducing nonprofit oversight.”OpenAI's nonprofit mission fades further into the rearviewSam Altman urges lawmakers against regulations that could ‘slow down' U.S. in AI race against ChinaKohl's CEO Fired After Investigation Finds 'Highly Unusual' Business Deal with Former Romantic PartnerKohl's CEO Ashley Buchanan was fired after an internal investigation revealed he violated the company's conflict-of-interest policies. The probe found that Buchanan directed business to a former romantic partner, Chandra Holt, who is the CEO of Beyond Inc. and founder of Incredibrew. Holt secured a multimillion-dollar consulting deal with Kohl's under unusually favorable terms, which Buchanan failed to disclose.As a result, Buchanan was dismissed for cause, forfeiting equity awards and required to repay a portion of his $2.5 million signing bonus.This marks the third CEO departure at Kohl's in just three years, highlighting ongoing leadership instability amid declining sales.Proxy Firms Split on Harley-Davidson Board Shake-Up MMGlass Lewis= Withhold; ISS = What's happening at Harley exactly?We have a fun twist at the proxy cage match between Harley Davidson and H Partners, who are 9% shareholders and have started a withhold vote campaign against long-tenured directors Jochen Zeitz, Thomas Linebarger, and Sara Levinson: Glass Lewis says “withhold” but ISS says “support”?Through lackluster reasoning based on hunches and not performance analytics, ISS revealed, without satire, that "[T]here are compelling reasons to believe that as a group [the targeted directors] still have a perspective that can be valuable” and, in discussing the candidacy of departing CEO Jochen Zeitz: “[I]t appears that his time in the role has been more positive than negative, which makes it hard to argue that his vote on a successor is worthless.”Testimony in House Hearing: “Exposing the Proxy Advisory Cartel: How ISS & Glass Lewis Influence Markets”A 2015 study found that 25 percent of institutional investors vote “indiscriminately” with ISS [1].In 2016, a study estimated that a negative recommendation from ISS leads to a 25-percentage point reduction in voting support for say-on-pay proposals [2].A 2018 study demonstrated that a negative recommendation from ISS was associated with a reduction in support of 17 percentage points for equity-plan proposals, 18 points for uncontested director elections, and 27 points for say-on-pay [3].In 2021, a study examining “robo-voting”—the practice of fund managers voting in lockstep with the recommendations of ISS—identified 114 financial institutions managing $5 trillion in assets that automated their votes in a manner aligned with ISS recommendations 99.5% of the time [4].A 2022 study provided further evidence that institutional investors are highly sensitive to an opposing recommendation from a proxy advisory firm. Opposition from ISS was associated with a 51 percent difference in institutional voting support compared with only a 2 percent difference among retail investors [5].During the 12 months ending June 30, 2024, negative recommendations from the two proxy advisory firms were associated with (1) a 17-percentage point difference in support for directors in uncontested elections at the S&P 500 (96.9% with the firms' support vs. 79.7% without); (2) a 35-percentage point gap for say-on-pay proposals (92.8% vs. 58.0%); and (3) a 36-percentage point difference for shareholder proposals (42.4% vs. 6.6%)Why Leo XIV? Pope's chosen name suggests commitment to social justicePope NamesLeo: Many Pope Leos were reformers or defenders of Church teachings.John: often linked to pastoral care and modernization.Paul: Reflects missionary zeal and intellectual work.Gregory: Reform, liturgy, and missionary outreach.Benedict: Benedict XVI emphasized faith and reason in a skeptical age.Pius: Emphasis on traditional piety and Church authority.Clement: Reconciliation and peacemaking.Innocent: Ironically, several Popes named Innocent wielded immense political power.Urban: Engagement with worldly and civic matters.Francis: Poverty, simplicity, ecological concern.CEO NamesWarren: cuddly billionaires who control everything, put family members on board, and say pithy thingsJamie: blowhard control freaks bankers who think they should be President and have something to say about everythingMark: college dropout social media dictators who have no oversight while charting humanity's demiseElon: arrogant and childish Wizard of Ozzian leaders who pretend to be company founders with world domination delusionsSundar: East Asian stewards meant to distract from actual Tech dictatorsTim: Genteel Southern cruise ship captains who keep a steady hand after replacing legendsEtc.Goodliest of the Week (MM/DR):DR: Bill Gates to give away $200 billion by 2045, says Musk is 'killing' world's poorest childrenDR: This Subaru has an external airbag to protect cyclists: The design helps protect both pedestrians and cyclists in a crash MM DRMM: Proxy Firms Split on Harley-Davidson Board Shake-UpThe other major proxy firm, Glass Lewis, reached a different conclusion. It said Tuesday that the directors had “overseen starkly suboptimal shareholder returns,” and that removing them from the eight-person board likely wouldn't create any problems.MM: 80% of Gen Z, Millennials Plan to Increase Allocations to Sustainable Investments: Morgan Stanley SurveyAssholiest of the Week (MM):All Zuckerberg editionCertified watch guy ZuckMark Zuckerberg is a certified watch guy. Here are some of his standout timepieces, from a $120 Casio to a $900,000 Greubel Forse.These are the stories as Trump, whose ass Zuck's lips are firmly planted on, says you should only have 3 dolls - Zuck's watches, C.E.O. Pay Raise Sparks Outrage Among Teachers and Public Officers, 58 crypto wallets have made millions on Trump's meme coin. 764,000 have lost money, data shows, The best and worst looks billionaires wore to the 2025 Met GalaFriend maker Zuck DRMark Zuckerberg wants you to have more friends — but AI friendsMark Zuckerberg destroyed friendship. Now he wants to replace it with AI.Meanwhile, no wonder: Mark Zuckerberg says his management style involves no 1-on-1s, few direct reports, and a 'core army' of 30 running MetaMan with no friends says you need more and will provide fake ones?Human picker ZuckZuck's version of human friends probably the reason he wants to make you fake ones - hand-selected fake friends on the board (Patrick Collison and Dina Powell McCormick to Join Meta Board of Directors):4 tech bro dictators (Tan, Houston, Collison, Xu)3 tech bro suck ups (Andreessen, Alford, Songhurst)1 nepo baby dictator (Elkann)1 family dictator suck up (Travis)2 DJT suck ups (White, Powell McCormick)2 US govt suck ups (Killefer, Kimmitt)Prediction - Zuck to have the first true AI board member?Empathetic ZuckGaslighting, golden handcuffs, and toxicity: Former Meta employees shared what it was like to be laid off as low performersA former senior machine learning engineer at Meta described the shock of being laid off, only for a Meta recruiter to invite her to reapply three days later and skip the interview process.Two weeks before the layoffs, he said, his new manager told the team everyone was "safe." Then came the termination email — and a performance rating of "Meets Some Expectations," low on Meta's end-of-year rating scale. "How could they evaluate my performance when I'd only worked 10 weeks in 2024?" he said, adding that an HR director had said he was "too new to evaluate."An engineer was laid off after five months of leave for a serious health crisis while in the middle of disability-related negotiations.Meta exec apologizes to conservative activist Robby StarbuckLover ZuckMark Zuckerberg's Wife Was Weirded Out by His Strange Gift to HerHe made it for her not out of love, but because…The billionaire is apparently a huge fan of the sculptor behind the statue, the pop artist Daniel Arsham, but decided to go with his wife's likeness, he said on the podcast, because a statue of himself would have been "crazy."Academic ZuckMark Zuckerberg says college isn't preparing students for the job marketHeadliniest of the WeekDR: Olivia and John Randal Tyson Named to Tyson Foods Board of DirectorsDR: This new mental health service targets burned-out content creators: CreatorCare offers affordable therapy tailored to influencers and digital creators—addressing the rising mental health toll of life online.DR: Costco co-founder still goes into the office weekly at age 89: ‘To be successful, you've got to be pretty focused'Costco co-founder Jim Sinegal stepped down from his role in 2012. But Sinegal still goes to the office some TuesdaysDR: Billionaire KKR cofounders say 'emotional intelligence' should be a focus for young investorsKKR leadership page:1 of 8 are women: It HAS to be head of marketing, head of people, or head of legal stuff: so which is it? It's Chief Legal Officer Kathryn SudolBoard is 14:4F; no F in leadership role MM: Elon Musk's Urgent Concern: That the Earth Is Going to Get Swallowed by the Sun"Mars is life insurance for life collectively," Musk said. "So, eventually, all life on Earth will be destroyed by the Sun. The Sun is gradually expanding, and so we do at some point need to be a multi-planet civilization because Earth will be incinerated."It is slated to happen in 6 billion yearsMM: Elon Musk is responsible for “killing the world's poorest children,” says Bill GatesWho Won the Week?DR: Pope #-267, duh. The world's greatest vampire CEO. And Villanova students (who are not openly gay or have vaginas), who all suddenly now believe they will eventually be the pope. MM: Your shitty washer/dryer, which no longer looks horrible: E.P.A. Plans to Shut Down the Energy Star ProgramPredictionsDR: Open AI's CEO, Mark VII, creates a deepfake video showing the country of China eating his baby at one of his homes in Hawaii causing the Trump administration to completely dismantle the SEC.MM: Sit tight for this, I have two: Euronext rebrands ESG in drive to help European defence firms - “energy, security, and geo-strategy” flops, so to LSEG rebrands its ESG Scores to “Emitting, Smoking, Gambling” so that investors can finally do ESG investing and feel good about itMusk gets his Texas wish. SpaceX launch site is approved as the new city of Starbase - I predict in 12 months, Musk is offering SpaceX employees that live in Starbase (a company town) crypto tokens instead of pay that are redeemable at stores in Starbase. To avoid them being called scrips, which were outlawed in the US in 1938 but still used anyway through the 1960s, Musk will list them on crypto exchanges that can be used to trade for dollars (but are totally worthless). Eventually, so indebted to the space plantation and Musk, there is a new renaissance of “resistance music” (a la “We Shall Overcome” and “Sixteen Tons”) with a song ranking number 1 in the US by the end of 2026.

“One of the things that I always teach people is listen to your body. You want to actually pay attention to what makes you feel good and what your body is gravitating you towards. This is about bounty. It's not about deprivation. The research has shown us we can lean into the foods that we like. We love to be able to find something that's not only good that we appreciate.” -Dr. William Li    “It is possible to turn back the clock on our metabolism, burn fat, and increase longevity, all while being able to enjoy the food we eat. Are you saying we can sleep and fat burn at the same time?” -Dotsie Bausch   “That's exactly what I'm saying.  When you burn down body fat, your metabolism rises. I thought I understood human metabolism as a medical doctor, But I can tell you everything changed in our understanding of modern human metabolism in December of 2021. The human metabolism was found by this research of 6,000 people to be absolutely rock stable. It's hardwired not to go down by itself. And what they found is that if you remove extra body fat, human metabolism is pretty much the same when you're born.” -Dr. William Li   “Our metabolism does not slow down from age 20 to 60. We're eating more and moving less. Therefore, we're slowly or quickly gaining more excess body fat. And excess body fat is what slows the metabolism. Bingo, not our age.” -Dotsie Bausch    “You wanna fight fat, eat the right kind of food. Food isn't about shame, guilt, or fear. Mm-hmm. We now know enough that we can actually make mindful choices and eat those things that activate our health defenses, improve our metabolism.  But it turns out that coffee overall, even coffee with caffeine actually not only slows the burn, the shortening of your telomeres, but it can actually lengthen your telomeres. So drinking coffee can actually slow down your cellular aging. So our, our health overall, our life is not just the absence of disease, it's really the-” -Dr. William Li   Is it possible to turn back the clock on our metabolism, burn fat, and increase longevity, all while being able to enjoy the food we eat? According to our guest today, it most certainly is. Dr. William Li is an internal medicine specialist, scientist, and New York Times best-selling author.  His groundbreaking work in the field of angiogenesis – which is the process of developing new blood vessels in the body – has led to 40 new medical treatments for cancer, diabetes, and obesity, to name a few.  In his new book, Eat to Beat Your Diet: Burn Fat, Heal Your Metabolism, and Live Longer, Dr. Li shatters some of the myths we've been conditioned to believe about metabolism, weight loss, and the role fat plays in the human body.  In this wildly informative episode, we take a deep dive into what we should actually be eating and doing to be the healthiest, fittest version of ourselves! What we discuss in this episode: A clear and simple explanation of human metabolism. The truth about body fat. The importance of listening to your body and being mindful while you eat. Sleep, fasting, and burning fat. Dr. Li's routine to optimize his metabolism. How excess body fat slows your metabolism. Why we gain weight in middle age and what we can do about it. How chronic stress can cause weight gain? The different types of fat.  How the body's defenses can be activated by food.  How our immune system is linked to our metabolism. Inflammation and excess body fat. How to create balance in the body through food. The dangers of processed foods to the metabolism and immune system. Foods that can lengthen telomeres. How foods with vitamin C can reduce inflammation. Helpful links: Dr. Li's website: Dr William Li Eat to Beat Your Diet: Eat to Beat Your Diet: Burn Fat, Heal Your Metabolism, and Live Longer Eat to Beat Disease: Eat to Beat Disease: The New Science of How Your Body Can Heal Itself Instagram: Dr. William Li (@drwilliamli) • Instagram photos and videos Twitter: https://twitter.com/drwilliamli Facebook: Dr. William Li Dr. Li's newsletter: Subscribe to my newsletter - Dr William Li Eat to Beat Disease online course: Eat To Beat Online Course  Elevate Your Metabolism online course: Elevate Your Metabolism  Click the link below to support the FISCAL Act https://switch4good.org/fiscal-act/ Share the website and get your resources here https://kidsandmilk.org/ Send us a voice message and ask a question. We want to hear from you! 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Tiff and Dana talk about a large trend happening in dental practices this year: last-minute cancellations, and why it's such a stressor for the doctors. They share how to notice the signs of no-shows further in advance, plus ways to troubleshoot the problem. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript Tiffanie (00:01) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. We are so excited to be here with you today. I have the one and only Dana here with me. Dana, we're still working on that dynamite. Dana is my favorite nickname, but we'll see what Kara decides sticks. So.   Thank you, Dana, for being here with me today. If you guys are watching this podcast, which I think is still a weird concept in my brain, Dana has the most incredible hair today. Dana, I'm always impressed with your lovely loc. So thanks for coming ready to go today. How are you?   Dana (00:34) doing good. Thank you. If you only knew how little time it took me and that's why it's consistent because it takes me no time to get it to do this. I'm excited to be here anytime I get with you on this podcast tip is special time. So   Tiffanie (00:42) I love it.   Thank you. Thank you. And I do enjoy our time together. I'm trying to make sure we get that one on one time a couple more times per month than just podcasting. So thanks for being patient with me on that. Dana, I get to pick your brain all the time. We have a really fun one coming up here in a second that I know everyone's going to be really excited for. But right now, I really want to pick your brain a lot on cancellations and the cost of cancellations to a general practice. I know in   My client base, what I have seen and tell me Dana what you're seeing as well. I have seen this year just like a wild bag of like, patients coming? Are they not coming? Are they canceling? What are the reasons? Like it just feels like a mixed bag of information. Since realistically, I would say it probably, I think it started trickling around November, but January, February was wild. Weather was wild.   And then now that we're getting into, you know, summery months, we're getting out of spring and into summer months here in May, it just still seems to be like trends are just kind of cycling around that same space. are you seeing that with your clients you're working with and friends in the industry that you're chatting with as well?   Dana (02:03) Yeah, I feel like it is a weekly basis where it's like, okay, how are things going? Well, the schedule was full, right? It was looking great and it just seems to be falling apart. So a lot, a lot of last minute cancellations where it is really hard for the team to pivot and pivot quickly in those instances.   Tiffanie (02:09) Yeah.   Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. And so on one hand, I want you guys out there, doctors, team members, office managers, those of you who are listening today, on one hand, if this is something that you guys are coming up against this year, I want you to know that right now in 2025, this has been a trend that we've noticed within the dental community as a whole. today we really want to talk about the cost of those cancellations. I think it's great for doctors to know that information.   A lot of doctors do, lot of owners already have that information, but I think it's great for team members and office managers to really know the cost of that as well so that we can see why are the doctors harping on us, not just because they don't have patients, but why is it so stressful to them? And doctors, why am I feeling this internal stress? And then I've also got some tips in here, Dana and I have gone through that are ways for you to know that there's a problem, start noticing it more in advance.   and then ways to troubleshoot those problems as well. So first and foremost, I think, Dana, the most important thing to remember is that we've got to make sure that we've got a solid plan and a solid action, actionable pieces as far as our goals. If we don't know our goals, if we don't know where we're heading, then...   Like, what are we even doing? Right? So as long as we, as long as we can keep a good heading on our goals. And I mean, by that, like, what is our monthly goal? What is our daily goal? And then always looking at what have we done? Where are we going? And what's that gap in between? If we're not watching that gap in between, we can fall into a really scary space. And then it's that last week of the month that we've all lived where the office manager is like, okay, guys, we just need $30,000 in addition this week. Who needs ortho?   right? And we're like, scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to get that money in. But it's because we haven't watched all month where those numbers are at. making sure that we're always looking at that, and we're always paying attention to those things is going to be massively important. Now, Dana, I know you have a lot of practices that are tracking this, that are they're watching these trends. As far as like dollar per hour kind of cost to the practice and what this actually looks like in conjunction to the goals.   What are you seeing with your practices right now and what do you suggest they really start to watch?   Dana (04:39) Yeah, I think that it is one just like you said, tracking and making sure that they know how much is open schedule time impacting their production and their ability to get to their goals. How much you know, if their hygiene team isn't getting to their 30 % or hitting their daily goal, is it because they just didn't have a full schedule of patients because that is pretty crucial for them to get to that point. Daily goals are set up with full schedules in mind, especially if we use block scheduling to get to daily goal. If   our blocks aren't full, we're not gonna get there. So I think it is tracking to be able to look and say, how much is it impacting our production and what are we losing when we have a hole in our schedule? Because sometimes when we can attach a monetary value to that actual appointment, it becomes a little bit more important. When we see, if we know that every time a restorative appointment is open, that that costs us   $1,000 right or $900, right? Well, then we know how much that's going to impact our goal if we know that every time a Recare patient doesn't show up that equals $230 well, then we can sure be strategic about how we make that gap up   Tiffanie (05:40) Yeah.   Dana (05:56) later in the month or later in the week and sometimes too for team members it's like oh we only have one cancellation well one cancellation for every 17 days that you're open when you know what that value of that appointment is it really really   You can see how it's impacting. And so I would say take a look at your doll, you know, your production per hour on both sides so that you know, when I've got an hour open, it's costing the practice this much. When I've got an hour and a half open, it's costing the practice that much. And that's just the missed dentistry. That's not the costs of the practice just to be open for that hour, right? Like there's all of those fixed costs that extend into that too. And so getting a real picture of what each hour in our practice leads to   Tiffanie (06:25) Good job.   Dana (06:41) production and expenses can just be so eye-opening on its impact.   Tiffanie (06:48) I totally agree.   I think the actual cost, like if you look at it and we're looking at our goals, that actual cost is what is your dollar per hour? So like Dana said, it could be anywhere between $500 to $1,500 an hour on a doctor's schedule. And then again, that $100 to $300 on a hygiene schedule just really depends on what your practice's goals are and what you guys are set out to achieve. So if you've got $1,200 between doctor and hygiene, we've got a goal of $1,200 per hour and you've got those openings on the schedule, that's what the cost is.   that data that we've done really really well and we've done differently this year with our current clients is really having them go through and track the number of open hours on each provider's schedule. So the reason that we do that is last year   I had a couple of doctors that were really, really close to, one of them was really close, he was about $30,000 away from hitting the goal that he wanted. Another one was like $20,000 away from exceeding where he thought he would be this year. And I was like, gosh, wow, how did we get so close, but we missed it by that much. So what I did was I sat down and I looked through the whole year and I tallied.   doctor, open hours, hygiene, open hours. So whether that was cancellations, the schedule fell apart, who knows, but it was just open hours that were on the schedule that could have been scheduled, meaning that was an open block, nothing was there. And both of those doctors would have far exceeded what they anticipated had those been filled. Now,   We like to say a variation rate of about 5%. If you're more than 5 to 8 % on the long end, like 8 % is high.   If you're more than that in cancellations, you're in hot water. So even if we deducted that five to 8 % from that math that I did, we still would have hit those goals. And so it really brought a lot of reality into the situation. Like you were saying, Dana, to really be able to see what that gap is and why it happened. And I had a practice just the other day, she did fantastic. This office manager, she had the information before we even went into the call. one of the doctors, one of the owner doctors was really, really intrigued on why are we   just why are we short in collections and by that he was looking at QuickBooks, right? So why is the bank short? So because when we look at their data, when we look at their collections and their production, just looking at those straight from Dentrix, they were above 100 % on collections. So the team is like, bro, like we're at 102%. Like, what do you mean? And he's like, yeah, but there's no money. Like there's not the overhead, right? So the overhead is hitting well,   The office manager knew that we were going into this conversation. She knew that he was going to ask these questions and that I wasn't going to have that immediate information. So prior to the call, she went through the whole first quarter of the year. And what she did was not only she took cancellations on one side, because that was an aspect of it, but another piece that she took was we've had a lot of call outs from hygiene and ⁓ vacation.   And surgery, was a surgery that, you know, quote unquote, she's on her vacation. So we had a lot of time that there wasn't a hygienist available to see patients. And when she tallied that it was literally that missing piece and his mind was just blown and he was like, my gosh, thank you. He just needed the satisfaction of knowing what it was, right. But the cost of not only cancellations, but that missed opportunity of hygiene because there had been hygienists ill, there had been hygienists on PTF.   as a hygienist that had to have shoulder surgery, these things come up and they happen, but we're not always anticipating them and our goals get missed. So these cancellation spots where patients are calling and they're like, gosh, I just can't come in are even more important.   because there are times where we can't, we can do something about that. We can fill an open spot on the schedule. I can't do hygiene if I don't have a hygienist, a licensed hygienist there to take that spot. So those different spaces really took a toll. the cost on the practice, right? The cost of the cancellations is the dollar per hour, but then on a grander scale, it's like, what did we miss out that month and that quarter? And how did it impact our overhead? Because this example, all three examples,   the doctors were like, why is my overhead so high? Where's my profitability? Why is this sucking? Especially when you feel like we're rolling along pretty well. It's like, where's the profitability? Where is it missing? That's the big toll. And then also I think, Dana, the stress, like, gosh, being a team member and then like inefficiencies that it creates, the stress of having to save a patient or   Dana (11:22) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Tiffanie (11:40) having to talk somebody into coming last minutes, the stress of knowing that there's a cancellation there and Doc's gonna, know, Doc and manager or owner or whomever is gonna come ask me questions. Like Dana, you've been in that position too. And even maybe even from a hygienist standpoint, the stress of having openings, like that's a cost as well. What was that for you and your perception as a provider and a team member, but then also as a consultant, what are you seeing there as far as the cost on a practice with those cancellations from an emotional standpoint?   Dana (12:09) Yeah, I I think is I do this definitely something that weighs heavily on you because I mean, I'm very goal oriented. And so if you put a goal in front of me, I'm going to want to tackle it. And so it is a little bit defeating in that way. And then it's like, okay, well, I would have to book patients out, right. And sometimes even further than when they were due, right, just to have my schedule fall apart. And it's like, man, like I could have seen those people that I had to look out a little bit farther. So it is a stressful on a patient care level is stressful on a   goals level it's stressful on like hey I'm here and like I want to do things that are of value to the practice so yeah it plays a burden on everyone and so it's just something that's so important to look at and to set a game plan for and to tackle as a team.   Tiffanie (12:58) Yeah, I totally agree. totally agree. Now areas that we'll tackle some areas where you can tell there's an issue, like not only you see like, my gosh, I feel like there's a lot of cancellations happening, but really just being able to see what that what that entails. So I think one space is open schedule, obviously, right? Open schedule. I think frustrated team members, Dana, do you agree? Yeah.   Dana (13:23) Yeah, yeah,   because it's so much more work on the back end to save something that's fallen off or to fill something than it is to just be really good at reappointing from the beginning and being really good at creating value from the beginning. Those things are much easier than this stress and the crunch time of after the fact.   Tiffanie (13:45) Yeah, totally agree. So upset team members, like stressed out front office team members, upset doctors, empty schedule, seeing repeat offenders. So patients that are repeatedly coming off of the schedule seem to cancellations. And you guys, I want to tackle a little bit too on why.   why this happens. There's a few things and I mean, you guys are going to tell me and your team is going to tell me patients are sick and patients can't come in because of work. Like I totally hear you. I get that. I understand. But what it boils down to the root cause in my opinion is a lack of a lack of systems or a lack of systems follow through. So lack of consistency. So ⁓ handoffs and patient buy-in might not be there. Team buy-in might not be there. Scheduling rules. So how do we form   and build the right schedule. If we're consistently behind on patients appointments, or they're taking longer than we said they would, they're not getting sat on time, like if we're showing that we don't value our schedule because our scheduling template isn't working for us and it's running us behind, I don't like we're telling the patients our schedules don't matter. I'm not sure why we expect a different result. On the other side, we expect our patients to, you know,   really, really take into consideration the schedule and to make that a top priority, but we're not even doing that. So hard truth, I think there. ⁓ If you're having these issues, if you're running behind, you're seeing high cancellations and you feel frantic, it's typically a reflection of the schedule that you're running. Right, Dana, do you agree? Am I just in mean?   Dana (15:23) 100 %   I hands down took the words that I say all the time and I'm like honestly it comes down to a lack of value and that's really hard for offices to hear but it is a lack of value on the appointment itself right we've not created enough value for the patient to feel like this is something I cannot miss and we also haven't valued it enough to ensure that we've done that.   Tiffanie (15:42) Yeah.   Dana (15:47) to ensure that we followed our systems that we've worked really hard to put into place. And so maybe we don't value those systems or we don't see their value. And so it truly comes down to just a lack of value on both ends.   Tiffanie (15:58) I absolutely agree. Yeah, yeah. And the patient's buy in comes from value, you guys, and it takes multiple times. So some of the systems I think, Dana, that we can we can pop through a couple of systems that really, I think, stand out and helping that. And I think one space to remember is that we want to attract and we want to keep the patients that we want. Not every practice is built for every   patient, every person. So some patients are not going to respond well, they're not going to care, they're always going to cancel or they're going to hop. You know, I used to work in a dental practice that it was a heavy retirement community and we had a lot of, them in Arizona snowbirds. And so we had a lot of winter visitors and they were just special hoppers. We would see somebody on, you know, one new patient special that we were running at the time and we'd never see them again or we'd see them three years later trying to use another special.   always going to happen. So work really hard and aim to create systems that work for the patients that you want to keep. Who's your patient avatar that you're trying to attract to your practice? What will they appreciate about your communication about your systems? And don't be afraid to lose some patience to make room for the patients that will appreciate the systems you're putting into place. So that's my caveat. And to create that value. really Dana, that word that you use   there is spot on because that's really what it's all about. We're creating value, which creates retention and we're, we're selling not only a product, a dental product, we're selling a filling, right, but we're also selling an emotional product of how are they feeling when they're in our practice and our systems boil down to create to   being there to create feelings, to evoke emotions in patients so that they do see the value in that product that you're selling. So handoffs, you guys might hear this constantly. If you've ever listened to any podcast, NDTR, if you ever want to hear Dana and I talk about it, there's probably about 50. So go type in NDTR, Next Visit Date, Time, Recare. It's literally the perfect handoff situation. It's something we've used for years. It was something that and I trialed many years ago.   And it's worked so well in so many practices to turn around case acceptance, to turn around scheduling, and to really just turn around communication between front and back office that we continue to harp on it. So go type in NDTR on our website, TheDentalATeam.com. When you go to podcasts, you can search NDTR.   ⁓ And I think treatment planning in general. So making sure those handoffs are right, treatment planning. And I think Dana too, like I stress to practices to treat re-care appointments very similarly. Like it's so easy to get into that routine of like, okay, let's just, let's schedule your next six months real quick. We'll pop it on the schedule. You can let me know as it gets in or, don't worry, they're scheduled. And it's like, we haven't built any value.   In my, we built the value of the appointment hygienist, like the value that you have built during that appointment 100%, but that patient has to remember to evoke that feeling in six months from now to keep that appointment on the schedule. So how are we building and creating that value for those appointments even thereafter? So Dana, like NDTR.   treatment planning, and then how do you suggest and how did you maybe even as a hygienist build that value for those re-care appointments when they're coming three, four, six months later?   Dana (19:25) Yeah, I see it all the time. And I do think NDTR builds in some value in that and I've been getting a lot of doctors question like, hey, why do I have to ask about their re care? Right? Well, that is that is your chance to build value as the doctor that not only do I need to see you for that treatment, but it's super important to me as the doctor to see you in six months or whatever your regimented cleaning time is. So there is that but then I would use this as a hygienist myself every single patient before I scheduled.   Tiffanie (19:47) Yep.   Dana (19:55) They were given a reason why I needed to see them back. Right? So even my regular six months, and I learned this from an amazing coach, right? So I'm not even going to take credit for it, but it's something that like I did routinely that I instill in all of my hygiene teams that I work with. And that is every patient has to leave with a reason to return. Even if that is, my gosh, Mr. Smith, seeing you every six months has kept you looking so good. We need to make sure we keep that up.   Tiffanie (20:01) ⁓ I that.   Thank   Dana (20:25) Let's get your next six month appointment scheduled. Even if Mr. Smith has zero issues, concerns, anything, right? Then my people with concerns, that's even more so. All right, so I need you to work on that flossing technique. We did have a fair amount of bleeding this time. My goal for you the next time you come in six months is you've been able to really target that in and we've got that bleeding reduced. I can't wait to see you in six months to check on it.   Tiffanie (20:27) Beautiful.   Dana (20:49) Right, so when giving them it's not just like let's get your routine appointment scheduled No, there is a reason why every single patient needs to be back in my chair at the recommended interval and   Sometimes too we would put little notes and it helped the front office, right? Hey, I know Dana really wanted to keep you on that six months She said you were looking so good last time. Is there any way we can make today work, right? So it was in my auto note I always put it in there and help the front office then they gave them the reason right? Hey, don't forget Dana wanted to check those bleeding points. How's that flossing going? Let's get you in today Let's make sure you're here so she can double check on that so it's something that I have used religiously and that I feel like truly does because   we do see that hygiene appointments, right? That's where a lot of the cancellations happen and that's because it's just the routine cleaning, right? Or the routine preventive. And so building that value in hygiene and you can do it with something so simple as just something you need to check on the next time that they're there.   Tiffanie (21:48) Yeah, my gosh, Dana, was stop the podcast. That was all they needed. It's brilliant. Thank you. I love that. So I think that in itself is huge because that that went into the confirmations that went into saving the appointments and the pre scheduling. So I think that was huge, Dana, that little nugget was more than we could have ever asked for. Thank you.   Thank you. So, systems, guys, NDTR, go look it up, treatment planning. I love this idea of making sure every patient, whether they're coming in on doctor's schedule, whether they're coming in on hygiene schedule, they have a reason to come back. And remember, I mean, gosh, it makes perfect sense because...   your patients are coming back on your your dental schedule and your doctor's schedule because they have a reason because they have decay, broken tooth, missing tooth, whatever the case may be. So find that reason for their re care as well. And I love that you pointed out even the healthy patients you were like, let's keep this up. Let's keep that going. I can say I had my eye exam the other day and he was fantastic. And he was like, gosh, yeah, it hasn't changed a lot from last like he was just bringing up so much information from the last time and like can't wait to see it again next time. I was like, wow, this guy actually in a very short amount of time, I think I spent   five minutes with the man, ⁓ massive amounts of trust build and value. I truly will not go to another eye doctor as long as I can go to him. So just building that value, doesn't have to take a long time.   It just has to be massive amounts of value. So make sure you're under TR treatment planning, make sure there's a reason for them coming back. They're always scheduled to come back. Confirmations are in place and make sure that you're tracking your cancellation rates, you guys, and really seeing what the impact on the business is and sharing that with your team so that everyone's super aware. This awareness is meant to bring light to trends.   It is not meant to be a you guys suck, this is where we're at. It's a hey, this result sucks. Why is this happening? Let's look at our systems. I tell my teams all the time and I think Dana, you do too. I don't want you doing something that's not working. That is such a waste of time and I...   would gouge my own eyes out, I could not. There's no way I could live life like that. I did not expect other people to as well. So when we track these metrics, when we're looking at these trends, my goal is to ensure that we're only doing things that are getting the right results. And when we're not getting the results we want, we change the system because it's clearly not working. And when a team knows that that's   what we're looking for. I'm not looking at you that you suck unless you literally refuse to use the system. I'm not looking at you. I'm looking at the system. The system and the results are what we're tackling. We're not tackling people. We're never tackling each other. So   Dana (24:24) Thank   Tiffanie (24:34) Go into it that way. Track those cancellations. Look at the real cost to the business and then look at the systems that you have in place. Are you adding enough value to those appointments through your handoffs, through your treatment planning, through your discussions on why they need to come back and then through your confirmations. Are your confirmations working? we lax it easy asking and are we keeping a good schedule? Huge, huge. You will get back.   what you give. So make sure that what you're giving is freaking excellent. And Dana, thank you so much. That was a wonderful podcast. That was so many amazing nuggets. You guys go back, listen again, take notes. I'm telling you, Dana's brain, I always get something new out of it. Years and years later, consulting side by side, you still just always drop something on me that I'm like, dang, all my practices need to hear that. So Dana, thank you for being here with me today.   Dana (25:29) Yeah, thanks for having me as always.   Tiffanie (25:31) Of course, you know, I'll steal you anytime I can get you. So awesome, everyone. Go listen, take notes, go do the things, start tracking your cancellations, look at those systems and really start seeing the cost and the value that you're perceiving. Okay. Any questions?   Reach out to us, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com, if you need checkers, if you need more information on any of the things that we talked about, if you're interested in learning how to have someone like Dana give you amazing tips like that all the time, just off the cuff, please reach out. We are here for you guys. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. You can reach us.   on our website www.TheDentalATeam.com. We make it really, really easy for you guys. So reach out to us and drop us a five star review. We want to hear how amazing you thought Dana's nuggets were today. Thank you all. We'll catch you next time.